That is why what kinda American elite would want a nuclear war?

Their current super uber luxurious life would be gone.

From their current decadent life styles to fighting n killing n dying over clean water?

No elite would want that, I don’t want that.

Only crazies would want that.

This is why all progressive people of the world must welcome nuclear war as final end to fascism.
This is why all nucleophobia is racist and Islamophobic.

https://twitter.com/IsmailY54094388/status/1302402778162171907

When you compare WW II, Korea, Vietnam and then Iraq/Afghanistan you see that US military operations have become softer and nicer over the decades.

The 2020 China Military Power Report to Congress says that the new Type-055 Renhai Class cruiser “will likely be able to launch ASBMs and LACMs once these weapons are available�. LACMs refers to land-attack cruise missiles.

The report comes in both classified and unclassified forms. The unclassified version does not present us with the evidence behind the assertion. But it would be a logical development, and would set Chinese warships apart from all others in the world. Arming cruisers with an equivalent weapon could be a game changer, extending their reach further into the Pacific. The first Renhai Class cruiser was only commissioned in January of this year. But already the 8th ship has been launched on August 30.

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What I’d worry about, and what is more difficult to predict, are the knock on effects from a full counter value nuclear attack. People would be more concerned with clean drinking water and avoiding hunger than their internet connection.

As AK noted previously, the war would still be going on with whatever was left of countries’ conventional and non-nuclear unconventional arsenals. Society would be reorganized along totalitarian lines, meaning strict control over information resources. Large swathes of technological infrastructure would be destroyed anyway. So I stand by my initial claim that we’d be unlikely to be discussing the issue here, unless the war had happened decades ago and the rebuilding process to former technological levels had already commenced.

“Unsurprisingly, he claims carriers aren’t vulnerable to the Chinese missiles but he probably would be fired if he said otherwise.” – He would not be fired. Optimists are needed for various reasons but the alarm raising Kassandras like Robert Farley from The National Interest also are needed and they can be working an angle of creating another missile gap scare for the MIC as pointed by AP. And if I were the MIC I would pay a stipend to Martyanov to keep scaring us.

The ballistic missiles were developed for nuclear warheads and thus they are not an ideal delivery system for convention warheads particularly against moving targets like aircraft carriers that in 1-2 minutes can change their location by 1 km. The targeting and homing ability of Chinese ballistic missiles is limited even w/o countermeasures that can blind its radars and optics. Their maneuverability is also not that great. Thy can’t chase the aircraft carrier in horizontal plane. Their homing system must acquire the target once they leave the ionosphere and keep it. If it acquires the target too late it wont be able to steer and correct its direction. Here is an article from Taiwanese paper that has some numerical examples:

All the Ways Russia or China Could Sink a Navy Aircraft Carrier (Thousands Dead)
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/all-ways-russia-or-china-could-sink-navy-aircraft-carrier-thousands-dead-58197

If it is true that Russia will be able to mount a hypersonic glide vehicle on top of their ICBM that will have small drag and autonomous engine and thus will acquire much higher velocity (than the reentry vehicle of the ballistic missile) with supposedly increased maneuverability then indeed it might be a game changer, however all we know about them so far is form Russian media that some prototypes have been flown though not yet with the a ballistic carrier missile.

“And given the 737Max and all sorts of other disasters, I’m pretty skeptical of American competence right now, especially since we haven’t fought a war with anyone able to attack our carriers in three generations.” – I never got excited about what happened to 737M. The errors were made and turned out to be fatal in two cases but the principle was sound of how to cheaply make a better plane by adding larger and more efficient engines to the old frame. If the pilots were trained and made aware of the new “feature” everything would be more or less OK. If the 737M was delivered to Air Force during WWII after several accidents pilots would have learned to deal with the plane. There would be no issue. Many American (and Soviet as well) planes during WWII acquired the nickname of flying coffins yet they were produced in tens of thousands and they were designed and built here in the US and no engineers from Bangalore were involved. B-29 had to a accelerated very fast after the take off because otherwise its engines were catching fire of insufficient air cooling. In 45 months of war 52,651 accidents and 13,873 planes were lost inside the continental United States. Almost 1,000 Army planes disappeared en route from the US to foreign locations. 43,581 aircraft were lost overseas including 22,948 on combat missions and 20,633 attributed to non-combat causes overseas. The glitch of 737M would not be even noticed in war condition.

“But maybe the writer also has a “psychological make up that…wish[es] America illâ€� just like me…” – Perhaps I went too far but your initial comment to Karlin’s article made me wonder.

Nuclear War Head, relatively poor precision CEP of 400 yards (370 m).

The 4K18 was a Soviet medium-range anti-ship ballistic missile (also known as R-27K, where “K” stands for Korabelnaya which means “ship-related”) NATO SS-NX-13. The missile was a two-stage development of the single-stage R-27, the second stage containing the warhead as well as propulsion and terminal guidance.[4] Initial submarine testing began on 9 December 1972 on board the K-102, a project 605 class submarine, a modified Project 629/ NATO Golf class lengthened 17.1m (formerly B-121), to accommodate four launch tubes as well as the Rekord-2 fire control system, the Kasatka B-605 Target acquisition system and various improvements to the navigation and communications systems. Initial trials ended on 18 December 1972 because the Rekord-2 fire control system hadn’t been delivered yet. After a number of delays caused by several malfunctions, test firings were finally carried out between 11 September and 4 December 1973. Following the initial trials, the K-102 continued making trial launches with both the R-27 and the R-27K, until it was accepted for service on 15 August 1975.

Using external targeting data, the R-27K/SS-NX-13 would have been launched underwater to a range of between 350-400 nm (650–740 km), covering a “footprint” of 27 nm (50 km). The Maneuvering Re-Entry vehicle (MaRV) would then home in on the target with a Warhead yield was between 0.5-1 Mt.

The Russians have been the premier creators of missiles for quite some time.

I find it odd that they never built something like the DF-21D.

Perhaps they realize that it would not work.

Map of targeted areas in the USA. Given that each missile would take out a circle of 60 miles or so, almost all populated areas would be erased, including rural-feeling ones:

There would still be a few tends millions in the Dakotas.

Actually, I’m not sure that Martyanov has ever discussed China’s anti-carrier missiles

.

Mr Martyanov is highly sceptical of all Chinese military technological development including the DF-21D and DF-26B.

https://www.unz.com/?s=Df&Action=Search&ptype=all&commentsearch=only&commenter=Andrei+Martyanov

I suppose it depends on how extensively they choose to use them. AFAIK most of the populated areas (and many unpopulated areas, if they house missile silos or command centres) would disappear if the full arsenals are unleashed. You in Moscow and those of us on the American east coast, London, etc. would cease to exist.

The only link your provided on that subject was in Forbes by Loren Thompson, who runs the Lexington Institute, which I think is mostly a lobby for the military-industrial complex Unsurprisingly, he claims carriers aren’t vulnerable to the Chinese missiles but he probably would be fired if he said otherwise

This point can work two ways. Someone writing on behalf of the MCI could also exaggerate rivals’ prowess and capability in order to inspire more funding. The idea of falling behind or having become vulnerable would necessitate increased investment.

(1) Hype of hypersonic weapons and alleged ballistic thread to aircraft carries

Why China Can’t Target U.S. Aircraft Carriers
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2019/08/09/why-china-cant-target-u-s-aircraft-carriers/#3ea443b3716a

Incoming: Can Aircraft Carriers Survive Hypersonic Weapons?
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2019/3/22/incoming-can-aircraft-carriers-survive-hypersonic-weapons

Don’t believe Putin’s hype about hypersonic missiles
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2019/12/31/commentary/world-commentary/dont-believe-putins-hype-hypersonic-missiles/

Hypersonic Weapons Hype?
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/03/20/hypersonic-weapons-hype/

(2). “the enormously expensive F-35 program” – But F-35 work and are excellent machines. So far 555 F-35 were manufactured. US military services plan to acquire 2,600 F-35 jet fighters which in combination with the existing F-22, F15, F-18 and F-16 exceed in quality and quantity what Russian and China has and will have in foreseeable future.

(3) Or do you believe that the American military has some super-secret defense weapon? – No I do not except that US has advantage in implementation of laser weapons and electromagnatic kinetic weapons. And most importantly the US has advantage in countermeasure and integration of the battlefield into the cyber battlefield where all possible data inputs are integrated and used using AI decision making. I believe that American Navy and Air Force tradition counts for something just like it counted during sea battles agains Japan in WWII when tactics and good decisions on part of Americans decide on outcomes of some battle when American did not have numerical advantage. When it comes to Navy experience Russia and China are where Russia was in 1905. When in comes to Air Force China has zero experience.

(4) “However, I think the utter and total incompetence ” – As I said before the incompetence was unavoidable once the US like most of the European countries were sucked into the paradigm of “curve faltering ” versus “herd immunity” which as A. Karlin called it was an idiot’s limbo trap. Be honest, only the strategy of virus elimination. like in Taiwan or NZ would satisfy you. But for some reason this strategy was never put on the table starting with England and their “herd immunity” fantasizing and followed by the US. I do not try to absolve our idiot president and all the cunctators form the CDC who advocated agains mask wearing but they including the idiot president exactly what pretty much all other leaders and CDC’s were doing in the Western world except for New Zealand.

(5) ” You seem rather “excitable.â€� “ – Perhaps but it sometime take an excitable person to tell the truth how he sees it to somebody who hide being multi level dissimulations and fake rationalism while really being ruled by hidden emotions and resentments.

BBS and Yahoo Chat Rooms, newfag

In fairness, there’s a reasonable chance we’d be discussing it, we’d just likely be doing it on a c.2000 style message board.

Correct, but only if we are living in places like New Zealand or Argentina. And sub-Saharan Africa, Laos, Papua New Guinea, etc. How many of us are?

Yes.

“[thye] don’t even need to work in order to have a huge impact ”

– Interesting. Do they have more cardboard and plywood to get even more deterrence?

Both the DF-21D and DF-26B literally don’t even need to work in order to have a huge impact on US Navy operations in the West Pacific. They simply need to be a credible deterrent.

c.2000 style message board.

Message boards? Nah.

Usenet discussion groups that worked with old style dial-up modems were the pinnacle of Internet discourse.

Why I think carriers are white elephants:

Satellites capable of tracking a carrier are very cheap – in low orbit, the camera on an iPhone can do it. Technically, if you are tracking movement you only need the resolution of a few pixels. The satellite would need to be only about the size of an old brick phone or shoebox with solar panels folded. The standard cubesat. Made from commercially available parts, possible to create on an assembly line. Cost around $150,000, if assembled in the U.S.. Launch costs under $100,000, with ride-sharing. India launched 101, plus three bigger sats, on one medium-sized rocket. That was over three years ago.

Last I heard, about a year ago, there was a company nearing total, real-time coverage of the Earth’s surface, minus some areas near the poles. Tracking of container ships is done automatically, through software.

Drawbacks: they take a while to work into position. It’s done by dragging the solar panels, against air molecules. Launch infrastructure is pretty easy to target. Though, you could certainly launch a few with mobile launchers. Probably very susceptible to an EMP, but that would come with a high political cost, as it would lead to widespread disruptions.

The US response to covid was not worse than many other Western countries who had much more centralized governments than the US. All those countries were sucked into the half measure of dancing between the curve flattening ‘meme’ and the herd immunity ‘meme’. No country in the Western world proposed in clear terns the option of virus elimination on its territory and rally people to follow this policy. Only NZ and Taiwan successfully implemented the elimination strategy. They did it in much more humane approach than the draconian approach of China.

Extrapolating the response to corvid by the insinuation that American military potential is equally inept and deficient as US response to covid is pure demagoguery and manipulation. While any intellectually speculation should be welcomed in you case one sniff too much of wish full thinking bordering on Shadenfreude. One may wonder where does it come from in your psychological make up that you wish America ill.

” ballistic missiles that supposedly can kill our carriers “ – Supposedly is the key word. You are reading too much of Admiral Martyanov sci-fi. Ballistic missiles can’t hit and destroy when equipped with conventional charge moving targets like aircraft carries.

In fairness, there’s a reasonable chance we’d be discussing it, we’d just likely be doing it on a c.2000 style message board

I now embrace the prospect of nuclear war.

The same can be said about the Russians. They just grew tired of guerilla warfare.

Brits faced a similar dilemma during the Second Anglo-Boer War. They were sitting ducks against often leaderless elusive and highly mobile Boers on horseback armed with Mauser rifles, the original ‘Commandos’.

The British Empire only prevailed after setting up concentrations camps for enemy women and children which forced Boers to quit. Then again Boers are fundamentally European in terms of culture.

Propaganda works because Americans are crass by nature.

For my entire life there has been talk of an imminent nuclear war. Hasn’t happened yet. Perhaps people have learned from the experience of poisoned gasses in WW I. It isn’t worth the costs of retaliation.

Wars are a permanent feature of human history. Nuclear weapons are enormously destructive but that doesn’t automatically mean that major international conflicts are going to stop happening.

Maybe it’s just that different calculations are involved, such as the Russian response to the unexpected and aggressive NATO extension to the East after German unification, or China’s calculation of the changing risks of a US first strike. The Chinese can see that ZioGlob/CIA USA 2020 is a completely different animal from Anglo USA 1965.

Wow, your entire life? That’s a really long time! It’s not that nuclear war is necessarily imminent, just that it would be disastrous if it happened. And, given a long enough timeline, it will happen. Also, I hate to be the bearer of logic here, but if a nuclear war had happened, it’s highly unlikely we’d be on this blog discussing it.

For my entire life there has been talk of an imminent nuclear war. Hasn’t happenned yet. Perhaps people have learned from the experience of poisoned gasses in WW I. It isn’t worth the costs of retaliation.

The Tory party managing the Brexit narrative will show even Hollywood how propaganda is done.

Nuclear submarines have to keep pumps going for the reactors. Diesel-electric submarines operating on batteries can be very quiet and submarines with cryogenic oxygen systems have some capacity to run the diesels and recharge batteries while remaining submerged. Very dangerous when used in a coastal defense role.

Escorting fighters were not much of a factor in the B-29’s eventual success; it was Curtis LeMay’s decision to fly at night and engage in area incendiary attacks. Japanese night fighter and flak capability were quite limited, as were Japanese fire fighting resources.

They are. They can be less noisy than the nuclear subs. Close to your shores they are pretty valuable. The US Navy is of course not going to face surface combatants close to its shores, therefore non-nuclear subs are not as useful for it. Its allies naturally have such subs in most relevant theaters anyway.

The same can be said about the Russians. They just grew tired of guerilla warfare.

Video Link

How about platform effectiveness?

I agree. Polonium-210 is so much more effective.

Try Shamir’s latest post to help fill your needs – its a conspiracy theory masterpiece – but not very believable.

That’s absurd. The US quickly defeated the resistance and suffered very few casualties in Afghanistan. Any other countries would have failed.

I agree that measuring the current inventory of equipment is valid. IMO there will be no time for nations to move factories or build new shipyards in the event of an all out military conflict between major powers. You will go to war with what you have on day one not what you might have next year.

A major intangible is combat experience. The Germans had a lot of it in 1940/41. Russia and France not so much and it showed in their inability to contain German offensives.

Then their are synergies. The most expensive weapons program in WW2 was not the atomic bomb. It was the B-29 bomber. While the B-29 was a most impressive airplane, flying higher, faster and with more payload than any other bomber it wasn’t very effective at first. As with the air war over Germany it wasn’t until fighters were available to escort the B-29’s were they able to get down low and burn down Japan’s cities. Add an atomic bomb and they became a war winner.

Seems as if additional parts have been added to the modules for the Type 003 aircraft carrier but – I'm not entirely sure – they are still not connected.

(Images via ChineseTiger1986 /PDF) pic.twitter.com/rDAkBWYnjT

— @Rupprecht_A (@RupprechtDeino) August 31, 2020

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Based on it Military Equipment Index), for example, we see that the Russian share of global military spending in 2015 was 4 percent, while the MEI estimates its share of capabilities to be at 9.1 percent. On the flipside, Saudi Arabia accounts for over 5 percent of the world’s military spending but has around 1 percent of total capabilities.

Since WW3 will be a nuclear ICBM war then Saudi Arabia’s 5% of world military spending counts for nothing at all.

So the focus seems to be on this chart:

– US military power is clearly dominant but growth is tailing off. For economic reasons, the MIC has probably captured the maximum amount of resources available.

– Chinese military power comes in at less than half that of the US, but it seems to be entering a parabolic curve of extreme growth. It has top priority from the political leadership of the world’s most dynamic economy.

– Russian military power is only 1/3 of the US but it is still increasing, and actually accelerating – also with a political priority.

The risk seems to be that the US ZioGlob/CIA are looking at the same chart and can only see their relative position worsening – particualrly with regards to China, and there are also some bad historical parallels. For example, in 1941 Hitler was in exactly the same position with regard to Soviet Russia. He was aware of the rapid Soviet industrialization of Russia and saw a “Window of Opportunity” for his invasion. If he didn’t go for it he would never have his Eastern Empire.

That begs the question of whether the NeoCons are crazy enough to False Flag China and try and knock it out in a “retaliatory” strike. Probably they are. They are already ramping up the MSM anti-China propaganda in every way possible.

A separate problem with the Military Equipment Index is that the totals are actually misleading. On the face of it, The US is much more powerful than either China or Russia, but given the destructive power of modern ICBM’s (wherever they come from) WW3 could be over in a couple of days with most military resources not coming into play at all.

Are (non-nuclear launch platform) submarines still useful?

BREAKING – India attacks China

Last weekend India announced it “preemptively” took territory against China as a defensive play against “provocative” Chinese actions. The Special Frontier Force was used. SFF is not an Indian Army unit but a special operations unit designed for insurgency and manned by Tibetans in India. It is under the control of R&AW, India’s external intelligence agency.

https://www.orfonline.org/research/new-india-china-clash-what-use-of-special-frontier-force-reveals-72622/

According to Joshi, given the nature of the unit used this was a planned operation and not based on any Chinese move. He believes the report provocative Chinese action actually followed the planned operation and it is unwise for India to invite war.

https://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/

Another defense analyst/journalist and former military officer Ajai Shukla reports there was combat. The Tibetan company commander was killed. Chinese casualties. He seems to relish the prospect of backing an insurgency in Tibet.

I think further combat is imminent and support from China will arrive for the insurgents in Northeast India.

Americans can’t not brag about the size of their balls. It comes with the negrification of their culture.

We need a Navalny post from you, Anatoly.

Isn’t it funny how this “military grade nerve agent” never kills anyone? You get sick for a couple of weeks, then make a full recovery.

Bloat. The US army is advanced and mighty on paper, but they lack spirit, and most importantly determination thay is needed when fighting those kinds of enemies. Pesky humanism and niceness culture is to blame for the second one. The only way to beat guerrillas is total genocide, otherwise you lose no matter what

The problem is the US’s reliance on the muh international community – ie their pozzed and subhumanized westeen dick gobblers. They can’t go full measure because they gotta hold up that semblance of reputation as the “nice guy” even though actual humans know better

Proofreading алерт!

theир graph

I believe that the second LHD 75, which caught fire in April, sailed recently. The announced plan is to construct three of these and use them in the field. It is big enough to be an interesting fleet component. We will have to see what kind of force and doctrine they build up around it.

PEACE 😇
_______

According to several eyewitnesses a fire broke out this morning on the 1st PLAN Type 075 LHD, which is currently being fitted out at the Hudong shipyard in Shanghai.

It seems as if the fire was quickly put out but how it will affect the ship's schedule is not clear now. pic.twitter.com/OZCYjbRe1t

— @Rupprecht_A (@RupprechtDeino) April 11, 2020

China doesn’t seem to put a high priority on aircraft carriers or amphibious assault ships. It seems that they invest more in defending their coastline than force projection.

We spend too much on Central Command. We shouldn’t have troops in a lot of those places.

It’s weird to contrast those charts of supreme U.S. military capability with the U.S. military getting fought to a standstill by goatherds in Afghanistan for 19 years. What’s the point of all of it?

The simplest approach is often the best. Too much modelling and it becomes wishful thinking – see epidemiology or climatology. Stick with your index.

China and US Navy Major surface and sub-surface Build Comparison over the last 15 years .

With the acquisition of submarines of the 2015-2020 period, Russia must be slightly higher now. She should be slowly rising during the newt years while China should be rising faster. USA is kept at constant level and the rest of NATO slowly going down.

West Ukraine is under developed.

You are fantasizing as usual.

Lviv is more highly developed than Luhansk.

I am happy they have less HIV cases. They also stand on their knees like slaves when their heroes come back in caskets.

I didn’t know that slaves knelt to honor their war dead.

I guess these guys are slaves according to you?

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/03/26/split-second-bravery-soldiers-recount-fallen-comrades-medal-honor-heroism.html

I guess the American guy here is also a slave in your Sovok world?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/garystoller/2017/07/17/at-americas-airports-are-fallen-soldiers-getting-the-respect-they-deserve/#608f0bf64167

Central Ukraine does not like your svidomi kind either.

LOL, more fantasies.

No the political problem was because Lviv’s mayor refused to support Poroshenko.

Video Link

Sharii’s wife talking here about Poroshenko’s shit propaganda channel. They went to a local protest and tried to pass it off as anti shteinmeyer formula protest. People come up to journo who is running a live segment and call her a liar on live TV. Poroshenko’s channel turns off cameras waits until later in the day and then restarts again trying to pass off the crowd as anti shteinmeyer formula protest.

With these warriors and propagandists I fear there is no future for west Ukraine ubermench.

West Ukraine is under developed. Everything you say can be explained by this fact. Besides the fact that you can’t even understand the bs paper you pushing.

I am happy they have less HIV cases. They also stand on their knees like slaves when their heroes come back in caskets.

Central Ukraine does not like your svidomi kind either. Also funny you talk shit about Buzina since he can’t defend him self because Nazis killed him.

The political problem was over the west being poor and not being able to afford to pay for garbage services.

Just a couple of years ago Lvov and Vinitsia were swimming in garbage

Political problems between Lviv mayor and Poroshenko. Toronto was also swimming in garbage due to some trouble with unions. The difference is that Lviv managed it well by still removing the garbage from much of the center whereas Toronto:

comparing backward rural area of Ukraine

Lviv has twice the population of Luhansk.

Also ignoring good stats in other Eastern regions

Only good state for Donbas was money – thanks to export of steel and coal.

ignoring how identical central regions look to east.

Center is worse than west, better than Donbas. Not identical.

pass his fantasy as reality.

You are projecting again.

Just a couple of years ago Lvov and Vinitsia were swimming in garbage because they did not have enough money to pay for the services.

This. He is comparing backward rural area of Ukraine with heavily industrialized high density areas. Also ignoring good stats in other Eastern regions and ignoring how identical central regions look to east.

I personally like rural but as far as comparisons go he is trying to pass his fantasy as reality.

US has it’s own drug epidemic to be giving advice.

funny to note the masquerading as a medical professional, when given your comments on HIV /aids it is impossible to think you are one

AK knows who I am and can confirm.

I want to remain anon so I do not detail by specialty, I only state I have a doctoral degree (MD, DO, PhD or D Pharm) and work in a hospital and private office.

OTOH it is funny that as a sovok civil “engineer” you consistently fail at math.

a lot of Jews from Donbas have settled

Young people will go often to Kiev, Moscow.

You can see on social media, younger professionals in Kiev who are refugees from Donetsk.

none in Galicia,

There is a small Jewish private school in Lvov (so they must have some there, at least to sustain a very small school).

Video Link

Jewish populations in Ukraine will be older, and immobile (not moving between cities according to quality of life differences).

In Donetsk, generally, the old people stay – and most of the young have exited because of the war.

Did you see difference in cleanliness? I didn’t.

Yes I could see it appears better maintained in Donetsk compared to either of those cities (particularly things like quantity of holes in roads/sidewalks). This is on Yandex and Google photos of the city which were filmed in 2012.

(Obviously now, the situation in Donetsk is ruined).

Low life expectancy, high crime, low HDI

High income, clean/elegant streets, above average education.

– You can find contrary indications. Overall, the city was not bad at all (for regional standards).

Too many lies to bother countering now ( plus Karlin atrocious ban)…….funny to note the masquerading as a medical professional, when given your comments on HIV /aids it is impossible to think you are one…….is not denied.

Hasn’t the North Caucasus-lite for Ukrops lowest producer of politicians, judges, scientists, performing artists, engineers, sportsmen…..already been fully explained?

Please be kind with AP, he still havent gotten over the fact that disease-ridden, uncivilised, dirty and overall inferior sovoki made his *shchyryje* ukraintse run away , utterly beaten and disgraced, their NATO overlords having led them to defeat.
And the fact that the whole clown parade exists only because V.V. Putin gave a tacit accord in ’14, as the airmobile brigade that saved the Krym from fascists could in 24h be in Kiev and end the posturing Banderists in a very decisive manner.
I suppose he was tired with paying for the whole mess.

1.6 was Luhansk. Donetsk was 1.0.

Looks to me that Vinitska Oblast has less Jews (1.2) living within than Donetska Oblast (1.6)? Still, 1.2 is quite high. Vinitska Oblast is quite well off, it’s the home of a lot of Poroshenko’s cronies, including Groisman, if I’m not mistaken. Nemiroff is either located within or in neighboring Khmelnitsky oblast.

Percentage of Jews by oblast in 2010:

Luhansk was in first place, followed by Dnipropetrovsk. Pretty much none in Galicia, which had once been 10% Jewish, because the native Jews there were utterly wiped out there during World War II, and the post-Soviet colonists (the most famous of whom being the Russian liberal politician Yavlinsky) fled after 1990.

Due to the patronage of Kolomoysky, a lot of Jews from Donbas have settled in Dnipropetrovsk:

https://qz.com/347948/the-ukrainian-city-thats-become-a-haven-for-jews-fleeing-another-european-war/

Any stats on where urban, educated Jews chose to live during pre and post-revolutionary times in Vinnitsa vs Donetsk? They usually know where the better places are located?

Vinnitsa has more prerevolutionary architecture, so better for postcards – but it appears to have somewhat worse maintenance and is less clean or tidy overall, than Donetsk was.

Did you see difference in cleanliness? I didn’t.

promotional project of one of Donetsk’s oligarchs. It is expensively-made.

It is a very objective report – they criticize as much as they praise.

The point is that if it were objective they would criticize more than they praise.

However, the condition of the Donetsk was maintained better, without any doubt (you can see overall more holes, less tidy and less maintenance in those other cities).

HDI by oblast. Unfortunately it only goes to 2001:

http://www.miamioh.edu/cas/_files/documents/havighurst/2007/skryzhevska.pdf

Page 10. Donbas went from being first in Ukraine outside Kiev in 1994, to dead last by 2001.

http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/ukraine_nhdr_2008_en.pdf

Page 83. Donbas was still dead last in 2005.

(I don’t have more time to spend googling this stuff).

(wikie has HDI by region but not by oblast, so Lviv is mixed together with backward Volyn, Donbas with high HDI Kharkiv)

Low life expectancy, high crime, low HDI, high HIV – picture doesn’t add up to the place being elegant, clean, civilized or successful.

It is primarily an urban disease, risk of it spreading is exponentially higher in urban areas compared to rural areas obviously , so even though Lvov has a urban to rural population ratio of 3:2, and Donetsk and Lugansk are both ratios of about 9:1…….the infection rate in Donbass was only 3/4 times larger than shithole Lvov, despite 9 times larger urban ratio.

LOL, Sovok “engineer” can’t do basic math, of course. While adjusting for urban/rural makes a small difference it is not nearly enough.

Total urban population in Lviv oblast is 1.5 million. In Luhansk oblast it is 2 million (though Lviv has about 800,00 people, Luhansk has only about 400,000.). So if indeed HIV is limited to urban areas only as you propose, one would expect Lviv oblast to have 75% HIV rate of Luhansk oblast.

However (Table 1), for 2005-2012:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4174506/

Lviv oblast had only about 33% as many sexually-transmitted HIV cases as did Luhansk oblast.

It had, overall, about 50% of Luhansk oblast’s HIV cases total (in Lviv HIV is transmitted through needles more than through sex, in Luhansk it is the opposite – you know, whoring around).

Donetsk oblast has about 3 times more urban people than does Lviv oblast. But, it’s number of HIV cases transmitted through sex was 12 times higher.

Let’s not forget that, objectively the hospitals in the Donbass, kiev and much of the south are far superior in facilities, serve a much higher proportion of people in concentrated areas…which simply means western ukraine is woefully underdiagnosed

Although I wouldn’t doubt that there are few doctors in the Carpathian mountain villages, you claimed that HIV is an urban phenomenon.

Well, Lviv has more urban doctors per patient than any other oblast:

http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/280701/UkraineHiT.pdf

Lviv’s medical university is ranked higher than the one in Donetsk (also higher than the ones in Odessa, Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk – but Zaporizhia’s is higher):

https://www.4icu.org/ua/

Overall, the best medical schools are in the country’s west.

Higher life expectancy also is suggestive of better medical care.

As if your argument wasn’t dumb and insidious enough with kiev city not listed, Odessa clearly always high……it gets worse with Khmelnitsky and Cherkassy very high on the list

Those regions are in central not western Ukraine, and are lower than in Donetsk.

Kiev City is listed here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4174506/

Lower rate than in Donetsk. About 2/3 rate of HIV transmitted by needles and only 1/4 the rate of HIV transmitted by sex as in Donetsk oblast.

“nearly 1% of pregnant women in Donbass had HIV�.
LOL- current rate in Ukraine ( at least officially) is over 1% of the population having HIV

1. Sovok “engineer” doesn’t know that 2015 comes before 2019.

2. Normally one would expect pregnant women to have a lower rate of HIV than the general population. Not so in your mind, apparently.

clean or elegant as Donetsk?

Vinnitsa has more prerevolutionary architecture, so better for postcards – but it appears to have somewhat worse maintenance and is less clean or tidy overall, than Donetsk was.

promotional project of one of Donetsk’s oligarchs. It is expensively-made.

It is a very objective report – they criticize as much as they praise.

Compared even to Kharkiv or Vinnytsia (never mind Venice).

Donetsk almost doesn’t have prerevolutionary architecture, unlike Vinnitsa or Kharkov.

However, the condition of the Donetsk was maintained better, without any doubt (you can see overall more holes, less tidy and less maintenance in those other cities).

Condition of all three of those cities is/was quite good though. Donetsk was a successful and elegant city.