People can, and do, read novels on their smartphones nowadays.

Yes, I correct myself when wrong which isn’t often – like on the subject of Natalie Wood.

You’re the one that seems to be spreading untruths (Volkoff is part Ukrainian) around here. Well, I give you credit for correcting yourself when you’re wrong. 🙂

At the same time Mickey, you should know that you find yourself in the best of company. My dear mother also thought that Volkoff was Ukrainian! She thought that he might be one of her long lost relatives after seeing him on TV (a similar sounding last name). Of course he wasn’t, she only liked to see various people as being Ukrainian, elevating them, I guess? 🙂 🙂

Humorous sarcasm works when there’s some truth to it.

Upon further review, he was all Hrvat according to Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Volkoff

It’s quite obvious that the “Demolisher” identifies most closely with the Russian side of his split personality, therefore (according to your own logic) there’s no way that he could possibly be of Ukrainian background. Unless you can provide a signature guaranteed statement to this effect, that either of his parents was Ukrainian, your fantasy and any arguments that you have about his Ukrainian identity have been thoroughly “demolished.” No “cherry picking” can save you from this final decree and judgement. 🙂

Another:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-dcola-017&hsimp=yhs-017&hspart=dcola&p=iron+sheik+iran+number+one+russia+number+one#id=13&vid=1c3a32cd00cf8778734989f4437b1008&action=view

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-dcola-017&hsimp=yhs-017&hspart=dcola&p=iron+sheik+iran+number+one+russia+number+one#id=1&vid=49010d904af681ca4ff1f4ab0dfdcd17&action=click

Sheik is a Persian Jew who was on the 1968 Iranian Olympic team. The guy you posted was Yugo born to Croat and Uke parents.

In other words…….she was Russian /Russian world lady- much like anybody from “Ukraine” who is not some failure, 1940s-50s smuggled out by the CIA, UPA member.

BTW congratulations – 4 cases of coronovirus and 2 deaths for Ukraine (1 an Ukrainian in Italy)
In other words the “3 cases” are another absurd fake statistic from the ukrop authorities – almost as bad as all those ludicrously fake BS “stats” that you put out.

Have the authorities got confused and thought that a “great” mortality rate from the disease would be another peremoga to publicise to the world? LOL

Mickey “the Russian Demolisher” Averkov! 🙂

BTW, it’s admittedly (on your part) idiotic of yourself to make such matter of fact in tone observations (wrong ones at that), while acknowledging to not having read thru the whole exchange.

Hack acknowledged my being correct in your prior disagreement that people of origin from the territory now known as Ukraine fought on the White side, with the language of that region of the Russian Empire being known and spoken within White ranks.

So yeah, your svido babble (albeit comparatively more sugar coated and nuanced than the standard variant) has been demolished.

Pathetic that you suddenly come in for Hack.

In line with your propping of a relatively obscure (for much of history) historical figure, who modern day svidos suddenly discovered – someone who was hardly (if at all) mentioned in Subtelny’s 666 page book on Ukraine and erroneously suggesting that the Polish attempt to conquer Russia wasn’t repressive.

No one in NW’s family is on record for saying they’re of Ukrainian background. NW’s family relations from generations back most likely didn’t see themselves as Ukrainian.

She would not be the only Russian of partial non-Russian descent.

Ruslana is more Russian than the claim of NW being of part Ukrainian background. In any event, I never denied that NW might’ve some familial roots to the territory now known as Ukraine.

Big wow!

Naw, you lost as usual. It looks like she was Russian and thought of herself as such, but her father’s parents were Ukrainian (I think this was what Mr. Hack was saying, I admit I haven’t followed this discussion). Someone whose parents are both from Kharkiv and who both have the surnames -enko is obviously of Ukrainian descent. Therefore, claiming that this man’s daughter wasn’t of partial Ukrainian descent is just dumb and only someone unfamiliar with Russia and Ukraine would make such a claim.

She would not be the only Russian of partial non-Russian descent.

That being said, other than for the purpose of proving your stubborn ignorance, this discussion serves no purpose so I won’t continue it.

Your feeble minded diversionary attempt from getting intellectually clobbered yet again.

Look Mickey, the only “svido influnced folk” here is you, a Russo-Svido!

It’s not my fault that you refuse to accept reality, and the opinions of numerous non-Ukrainian reporters and authors, who all happen to believe that on Natalie Wood’s paternal side there was a Ukrainian ethnic connection. I suppose that we’re to believe that they were all involved in a conspiracy, just to tick you off? I’ve already told you that if it makes you feel better, believe whatever you want.

This exchange serves as a good example of how svido influenced folks spin away from reality.

I think highly enough of this discussion to the point that I just linked it to some friends with a keen knowledge and intellect on such matters. Here’s how one of them replied to the Ukrainianizing of Natalie Wood:

Total hogwash. I met her sister in California some years ago at the Russian Cathedral in San Francisco. She was reminiscing about her family and Natalie’s career. There was nothing “Ukrainian” about it.

On account of you having lost yet again.

You’re proof of such in conjunction with adhering to a form of Soviet psychology.

Literally nobody cares about this, not even you two, and there are a lot more pertinent and interesting issues to discuss right now.

Looks like one “nobody” cares. 🙂

I have a history of hen pecking Ukrainian/Russian issues with Averko that goes back several years now. I hope this is the last such battle royal for quite some time!

I suggest the two of you get a hotel room together, pop some popcorn, and binge watch Natalie Wood movies until you come to some kind of consensus on this matter.

Literally nobody cares about this, not even you two, and there are a lot more pertinent and interesting issues to discuss right now.

But it reminds me of a joke from when I was in school:

“What kind of wood doesn’t float?”

“Natalie”

I’ve sensed BS before such has been established. Until given conclusive evidence, I doubt she spoke Ukrainian and some Russian as one of your sources dubiously claims. She never acknowledged such, while having spoken Russian with a described American accent.

Look, I’m not a researcher or a biographer to answer your questions, I’m only repeating what these folks have written about her. You can believe whatever you want, and if you know more than these professionals do, write your own article or book.

I don’t offhand believe that I did. In any event, that book on NW seems to contradict another book on her which I linked.

Nowhere does NW say that she was of Ukrainian background or spoke Russian with a Ukrainian accent. On the contrary, it has been said that she spoke Russian with an American accent. When did she ever speak Ukrainian as claimed in the link you gave?

The Ukrainian national dress bit is svido nationalist chauvinism, given that dress is popular in the southern parts of Russia – carrying on influence in other parts of Russia. Suggesting that it’s exclusively or originally Ukrainian is hokey.

All of the links that I’ve included allude to either Natalie Wood’s father or grandparents being of Ukrainian descent. See comments: #264, #289, #298, #318, 331, all based on the opinions of different researchers.

In comment #235 in the opinion of a major biographer of Natalie Wood’ life, Suzanne Finstad (somebody that you even quoted in one of your comments), Natalie even spoke Ukrainian:

Although born in the US, Natalie spoke Ukrainian and even Russian with strong Ukrainian accent. According to “Natasha: The Biography of Natalie Wood� book by Suzanne Finstad, for one of her Hollywood roles she had to “fine-tune her Russian dialect.. to lose her parents’ Ukrainian accent.�

https://u-krane.com/natalie-wood-in-her-ukrainian-national-dress/

Which “so many researchers” and what do they specifically show as proof?

The ROC one that she was married in looks good. She was never married in a UOC church.

Another misguided researcher?

Natalie Wood was an American actress who rose to fame as the child artist (at the age of 4) and continued a career full of success until her unfortunate drowning in 1981 at the young age of 41. She was the winner of Golden Globe Awards and nominated multiple times at the Academy Awards.

Natalie Wood was born as Natalia Nikolaevna Zakharenko on 20th July 1938 in San Francisco, California to immigrant parents- Maria Stepanovna(Mother, Russian) & Nikolai Stepanovich Zakharenko (Father, Ukrainian)

https://celebrityfamilytree.com/actress/natalie-wood

So why do so many researchers refer to her grandparents as being Ukrainian?

Nowhere near as obstinate as yourself. Neither of her grandparents had Ukrainian listed on their birth certificate.

Here is the Methodist church where the fiery Russian nationalist Natalie Wood held her first wedding ceremony in Scottsdale AZ in 1957:

Not a very impressive looking church.

http://doney.net/aroundaz/celebrity/wagner_wood.htm

The rebound marriage was in 1972 and was held apparently at a Russian church – it didn’t seem to help the ultimately failed marriage.

She was married to Robert Wagner twice (I thought that you were an expert on all things Natalie Wood?).

Her identifying with her Russian heritage does not nullify her father’s Ukrainian ethnicity, and relatedly her own. Do you need her grandparents’ birth certificates in order to agree? You’re quite the obstinate individual, aren’t you?

That link isn’t coming up. Meantime, it’s specifically on record that she was married in an ROC church as previously noted with supporting details. Further details:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47224122

Still no conclusive evidence of her having a Ukrainian identity, which if evident is clearly secondary to her self professed identity with being of Russian origin.

That is the “Hotel Valley Ho.”

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/natalie-wood-walks-outside-with-her-father-on-the-day-of-her-wedding-picture-id2707271?s=2048�2048

And here’s a photo of her first marriage site in Scottsdale Arizona where Natalie is walking with her father. Regardless of where she got married, this doesn’t negate her father’s Ukrainian ethnicity. Apparently the whole affair was conducted at the Hotel Ho (I’m not making this up). 🙂

Further supporting info detailing NW’s ROC upbringing:

https://www.today.com/news/natalie-woods-russian-roots-wbna4325330

&

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2000/03/natalie-wood-s-fatal-voyage

Excerpt:

Their 1969 Russian Orthodox wedding was spectacular, held at the Holy Virgin Mary Cathedral in Los Angeles

That church’s website:

https://hvmla.org/

I was only trying to help you out, pointing out another Ukrainian who fought on the side of the Whites. Not anymore! 🙂

For our own sake, you should take a break and not get so exhausted over this.

She herself said she’s of Russian background – never saying Ukrainian. Once again noting her grandfather fighting on the side of the Whites and her father being born in Vladivostok.

Regarding one of your rehashes, people of different religious/church backgrounds can from time to time attended services of others they aren’t affiliated with or as affiliated with when compared to another congregational grouping.

If she has any Ukrainian background, it’s clearly secondary.

As I’ve already pointed out, after doing an exhaustive search of the Zakharenkos, I could not locate even one shred of evidence of this family taking part in any cultural activities of the Russian American or Ukrainian American communities of the Los Angeles area. If you feel that this is a stinging endorsement of the Zakharenkos attachment to their Russian homeland, feel free to hold such views, but for me:

Other than occasionally attending the Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral in Hollywood (and probably some of the other Russian Orthodox churches in the area too), after an exhaustive internet search, I could not find any mention of the Zakharenkos taking much part in either communities activities…In other words, her identification as either being of Russian or Ukrainian background was not very strong either way, and aside from occasionally attending one of the various Orthodox churches in the area where she lived and speaking a Ukrainianized version of Russian (most likely some sort of surzhyk), she exhibited the classic signs of full assimilation into her American environment.

More second hand which doesn’t successfully refute what I said.

According to one of your sources, her grand parents fled Kharkov during the Russian Revolution. It doesn’t say that they were from there. Meantime, it’s clearly stated elsewhere that her father was born in Vladivostok, where his family had a business.

Find me anything where she speaks of having a Ukrainian identity – once again noting how many on that territory saw it (back then) as a regional part of Russia.

To date, no evidence that both her parents were primarily of a Ukrainian background. Even if so, it’s clear that this is quite secondary from her clearly preferred Russian-American identity.

From what has so far been communicated at this thread, perhaps there’s Ukrainian on her father’s side. If so, that didn’t mean that they saw themselves as separate from Russia. Svido leaning folks (at least some of them) have a tough time accepting this sentiment as acceptable.

I really don’t understand why you persist in denying her father’s Ukrainian ethnicity? Both of his parents were Ukrainians from Kharkiv, as many researchers and reporters have publicly reported. Even if her father was born in Vladivostok, this fact alone wouldn’t preclude a Ukrainian ethnicity that he had acquired from both of his parents. If it would, then analogously so too would Natalie’s Russian or Ukrainian ethnicity be preluded by the fact she was born in America. You can’t have it both ways, Mickey. Here’s yet one more link (#5) that attests to Natalie Wood’s father’s Ukrainian ethnicity (all of these reporters must be delusional because Mickey Averko doesn’t want to believe what’s clear as crystal):

Natalie Wood was born Natalia Zakharenko in San Francisco, to Russian immigrant parents Maria Stepanovna (née Zudilova, Russian: Мари� Степановна Зудилова; 1912–1996) and Nikolai Stepanovich Zakharenko (Russian: �иколай Степанович Захаренко; c. 1912–1980). Nikolai was a son of two Ukrainians from Kharkiv: Stephan Zakharenko and Eudoxia Sauchenko. Nikolai was born in Vladivostok. As a child, he immigrated with his mother and two brothers to Montreal, Quebec. Later they moved to San Francisco. There, he worked as a day laborer and carpenter.

https://peoplepill.com/people/natalie-wood/

You provide second hand, likely rehashed supporting info in comparison to what I have noted with links. Wood said she spoke Russian with an American accent. Already noted that speaking Russian with a “Ukrainian accent” might be for a reason other than having a Ukrainian background.

In the days of her grandfather, Ukrainian as a separate national identity was minimal. Her father was born in Vladivostok, with herself identifying as Russian – not Ukrainian.

I never denied that she wasn’t Russian-American.

Just to note, in your world “falling to temptation� means crossing a Judas who owes his career to close collaboration with an anti-Christian atheist Soviet government.

Yours is circular reasoning.

Moscow claims Ukraine’s Church’s autocephaly is invalid because only Moscow may grant that status. The Romanian Church disagrees, stating Constantinople was correct. But it is waiting for some consensus to be achieved before granting recognition. It has not proclaimed that it will never grant recognition without Moscow’s acquiescence, nor has it turned away from Constantinople.

And we are back to what your idea ultimately means: the only keys to salvation are in the hands of a KGB snitch who had persecuted Christians for an atheist regime and who then got rich off smuggling cigarettes. In your twisted world, this man determines the fates of tens of millions of souls including that of the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Alexandria, the believers in Ukraine, in Greece, etc. Everything we need to know about the validity of your claims can be judged based on their results.

I will grant you that Natalie Wood’s family most likely was a highly Russified one, although her “Ukrainian accented Russian” was duly noted and she had to undergo some sort of training to rid herself of any such accretions while she was preparing for a film, but there seems to be little doubt, that on her father’s side there was a Ukrainian connection:

Natalie Wood was born Natalia Zakharenko in San Francisco, to Russian immigrant parents Maria Stepanovna (née Zudilova, Russian: Мари� Степановна Зудилова; 1912–1996) and Nikolai Stepanovich Zakharenko (Russian: �иколай Степанович Захаренко; c. 1912–1980). Nikolai was a son of two Ukrainians from Kharkiv: Stephan Zakharenko and Eudoxia Sauchenko. Nikolai was born in Vladivostok. As a child, he immigrated with his mother and two brothers to Montreal, Quebec. Later they moved to San Francisco. There, he worked as a day laborer and carpenter.

https://peoplepill.com/people/natalie-wood/

This is now the fourth link that I’ve provided to you showing a Ukrainian connection on her paternal side. If you’ll feel better and sleep at night more calmly, then by all means keep deluding yourself that Natalie Wood was of 100% pure Russian ethnic stock. The truth of the matter is that she was an American and not a Russian (nor Ukrainian) acctress. 🙂

Surzhyk is clearly not a Ukrainian accented Russian language:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=MdplXoCkIOWxggek3orIBw&q=surzhyk&oq=surzhyk&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0l3j0i30l5j0i5i30l2.914.3116..4852…0.0..0.122.393.6j1……0….1..gws-wiz…….0i131j0i10.IQddGR-u5Ps#spf=1583733302577

Show me where her father and herself state a Ukrainian identity. Once again somewhat reminded of Igor Sikorsky.

It won’t be lawful without the consensus.

Oh come on, get off of your high horse, your pronouncements sound hollow coming from one who at this thread alone has been identified as being both “disingenuous”and “blasphemous.”

Well, the hierarchs of the Romanian Church are not above temptation. They might fall eventually (God forbid) like the many others:
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron” (1 Tim 4:1-2).

It does not recognize the Poroshenko pseudo-Church.

..yet.

It states that it “inherently agrees to the granting of autocephaly” and that the granting was lawful (contrary to Moscow’s claims and yours) but wants consensus also.

I’m not trying to tell Patriarch Daniel how to do his job. He appears to be on the right track.

Okay, so on that particular interview, when she was working on a film where she played the role of a Russian interpreter, she identified with her Russian background. This in no way nullified her father’s ethnicity that was Ukrainian.

BTW, the three links that I’ve already included that attest to her father’s Ukrainian identity, were not written by any of your imaginary “svidos”, but by everyday heinz 57 Americans.

If you’re ready to prove that her father’s ethnicity was not Ukrainian, bring out your proof.

You don’t know the Russian word for watch. Perhaps you are some sort of central Asian pretending to be a Russian, who knows.

Proof:

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/god-truly-does-have-a-sense-of-humor/#comment-3472492

Your quote: “chas� is “hour� in Russian..i.e a period of time, or in a time, not to mention also meaning “watch/clock�

Latvian woman had to point out to you that the Russian word for clock is not chas but chasy.

Also, did you Internet search � bungalow for sale�? LOL

Russian civil “engineer” doesn’t even know what a bungalow is. Claims it has nothing to do with India.

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/eurasian-parallels/#comment-3731204

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungalow

A bungalow is a small house or cottage that is either single-storey or has a second storey built into a sloping roof (usually with dormer windows),[1] and may be surrounded by wide verandas.[1]

The style is derived from the thatched huts of Bengali farmers.[1] The British altered the style and built bungalows around British India.[1] The first house in England that was classified as a bungalow was built in 1869.[1] In America it was initially used as a vacation architecture, and was most popular between 1900–1918,[2] especially with the Arts and Crafts movement.

“Consensus should be achieved between the Ecumenical and Moscow patriarchatesâ€�, and “pan-orthodox consensus”, “according to the Gospel of Christ and the holy Orthodox Canons”, “for the whole Ukrainian Church and not just a part”, is clear and strong language too. It does not recognize the Poroshenko pseudo-Church.

LOL- you know it was music to my ears when Karlin attached himself to this nonsensical claim of yours. It is not in dispute that he can speak Russian – for him to go along with your false bilge shows one thing….. that he despises me, because there is absolutely no way he could have thought that wasn’t the writings of a Russian speaker.

BTW – didn’t I set you an assignment to watch the Deer Hunter? How is that going?

Also, did you Internet search ” bungalow for sale”? LOL

Her father was born in Vladivostok, far away from what became Ukraine. She identified with being Russian – not Ukrainian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Wood

Refer me to any documentary with her promoting Ukrainian culture and speaking Ukrainian. She did at least one regarding Russia. Her father isn’t on any record for saying anything in support of Petliura, or Makhno, with her grandfather having fought on the side of the Whites.

An interview with NW where she clearly notes a Russian (not Ukrainian) background:

Video Link

In the comments section, I don’t see any svidos claiming differently.

Her identification with being Russian is quite numerous and clear. Any identification of her having a Ukrainian background is comparatively quite secondary.

Speaking Russian with a Ukrainian accent isn’t Surzhyk. Moreover, speaking Russian with a Ukrainian accent can be the result of other factors. Someone of White Russian background leaves Russia for another country at a very young age and learns it from people having a Ukrainian accent.

Look Mickey, I’ll make this as easy a I can for you to understand. The fact seems to indicate that Natalie Wood’s mother was Russian and her father a Ukrainian. Period.

“inherently agrees to the granting of autocephaly,” is pretty strong language and is hard to misinterpret.

Her father was born in Vladivostok. He fought on the side of the Whites during the Russian Civil War.

It was her grandfather who fought for the Whites, not her father.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Natalie-Wood-only-say-she-was-Russian-American-when-her-father-was-actually-Ukrainian-making-her-half-Russian-half-Ukrainian

This is the only link that you’ve provided that links Natalie Wood’s :strong” Russian identification, It’s not even an article, but a one sentence question that doesn’t even answer the question that it poses, but leaves that up to a few comments made by people guessing:

So … when some people are named as russians, and they were born in period of existance of USSR – its could means that they are Soviet people.

I stand by my original characterization about Natalie Wood’s Russian identification:

Other than occasionally attending the Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral in Hollywood (and probably some of the other Russian Orthodox churches in the area too), after an exhaustive internet search, I could not find any mention of the Zakharenkos taking much part in either communities activities.

In other words, her identification as either being of Russian or Ukrainian background was not very strong either way, and aside from occasionally attending one of the various Orthodox churches in the area where she lived and speaking a Ukrainianized version of Russian (most likely some sort of surzhyk), she exhibited the classic signs of full assimilation into her American environment.

Of course you read too much in the statement of the Romanian Synod. It says just that : “inherently agrees to the granting of autocephaly, but a consensus should be achieved between the Ecumenical and Moscow patriarchates”.
“Concerning the current ecclesiastical situation in the Ukraine the participants also recognised that a pan-Orthodox dialogue is necessary for healing and reconciliation”.

An interesting take on this from a Russian perspective:

https://kornev.livejournal.com/558250.html

(In Russian)

Related, the title of the thread is misleading from its content:

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Natalie-Wood-only-say-she-was-Russian-American-when-her-father-was-actually-Ukrainian-making-her-half-Russian-half-Ukrainian

Her father was born in Vladivostok. He fought on the side of the Whites during the Russian Civil War. His famed daughter identified her ethnic background as Russian.

She did a film on Russian culture, speaking an intelligible Russian as appreciably noted to me by a fluent Russian speaker, who had a finicky way of commenting about how Russian is spoken.

Many people of White Russian background involved in orgs like the Russian Nobility Association and Congress of Russian Americans have (besides Russian) other backgrounds – Armenian, Georgian, Polish, Belarusian and Ukrainian being among them.

An example:

https://www.nytimes.com/1978/02/28/archives/alexandre-tarsaidze-77-czarist-emigre-acquired-own-public-relations.html

I’ve one of his books. Very pro-Russian and anti-Communist.

I’ve already provided 3 links attesting to her Ukrainian roots. I’ve never stated where she actually received baptismal. I think it’s time for you to start showing some links to back up your claims. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if she indeed was baptised in an ROC church, I just don’t know.

We pray of course for the end of the ‘Ukrainian’ schism and the return of those who went astray to the bosom of the Church.

It appears that your Patriarch and his close advisers don’t see the Ukrainian Orthodox Church as one that went astray and one that needs to return to the ROC. That everything is “lawful.” Apparently your faction has lost sway with Patriarch Daniel. You best get to work and quit fooling around here on the internet blogging with various neophytes and open the Patriach’s eyes to the “truth.” Looks to me like its just a matter of time before he makes his endorsement official.

The Romanian Orthodox Church believes the granting of autocephaly to the new Orthodox Church of Ukraine established on the basis of non-canonical religious organizations was lawful, the Greek church news agency Romfea said on Friday.

According to the article, the Synod of the Romanian Church came to the conclusion that it “inherently agrees to the granting of autocephaly, but a consensus should be achieved between the Ecumenical and Moscow patriarchates.

https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/orthodox_relations/78902/

Show me the commentary running counyer. Meantime, plenty of source material noting her ROC background which she acknowledged.

Ditto Kharkov. The Whites had some success in Kharkov.

Here’s a photo of Natalie Wood and her family, where the photographer (not on the payroll of any pesky Banderites, I presume) refers to her mother as being “Russian” and her father as “Ukrainian.”

https://www.closerweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/natalie-wood-2.jpg?fit=1000%2C664

All in the Family
Natalie, who landed her first major film role in 1947’s Miracle on 34th Street at the age of eight, owed her early success to a driven Russian mother, Maria (pictured far left). “She modeled Natalie on the Shirley Temple template… and it worked,” says Ray of Natalie’s mother. “[She] saved all kinds of pictures and had [Natalie’s] baby shoes. Somewhere along the line, I took a picture of the mother holding the baby shoes.” Conversely, Ray recalls Natalie’s Ukrainian father Nick, a film prop maker, as quiet. (Also pictured: Natalie’s sister, Lana.)

https://www.closerweekly.com/posts/natalie-wood-a-day-in-the-life-155411/

Other than occasionally attending the Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral in Hollywood (and probably some of the other Russian Orthodox churches in the area too), after an exhaustive internet search, I could not find any mention of the Zakharchenkos taking much part in either communities activities.

Actually at the Holy Liturgy, we pray for “for the unity of the Faith and for the communion of the Holy Spirit”. We cannot pray for ‘unity’ with those who don’t confess our Faith, who fell into heresies, schisms, apostasy, but we pray for their return to the unity of Faith, that with ‘one heart and one voice’ to confess the Apostolic Creed.
As we did this very day, the Sunday of Orthodoxy:
“But seeing the feeble impulses of many, fervently we pray Thee, O all-good Lord: look upon Thy Church and see, that although we have received Thy saving Gospel with gladness, nevertheless the tares of vanity and passions have made it bear little fruit in some, and in others no fruit, and through the multiplication of iniquities some by heresies, others by schism, in opposing the truth of Thy Gospel, apostatize from Thine inheritance, reject Thy grace, and subject themselves to the judgement of Thy most-holy Word. O Most compassionate and all-powerful, be not angry to the end, O Lord! Be merciful, Thy Church prayeth Thee, setting before Thee the author and finisher of our salvation, Jesus Christ, be merciful to us, strengthen us in Thy right faith by Thy might, and unto those that are deceived do Thou enlighten the eyes of their reason by Thy divine light, that they may understand Thy truth: soften their bitterness and open their hearing, that they may know Thy voice and turn to Thee our Saviour.
Correct, O Lord, the corruptions of others and the life not in accordance with Christian piety: make us all to live holy and undefiled, and so let the saving faith take root in our hearts and remain ever fruitful. Turn not Thy face away from us, O Lord, give us the joy of Thy salvation: and grant, O Lord, to the pastors of Thy Church holy zeal, and dissolve their cares for the salvation and conversion of them that are deceived, with the spirit of Thy Gospel: That all being thus guided may, we attain to where there is the perfection of faith, the fulfilment of hope, and true love: and there with the choirs of the most pure heavenly hosts may we glorify Thee our Lord, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, unto the ages of ages”.
We pray of course for the end of the ‘Ukrainian’ schism and the return of those who went astray to the bosom of the Church.

extreme debacle of you proving not even knowing basic Russian

I taught you the Russian word for “watch.”

Do not make claims about me that are true only of you.

How in the world would you know that?

NW on more than one occasion said that she was of ROC background never once saying Ukrainian, much unlike Jack Palance.

LOL – Fresh from the extreme debacle of you proving not even knowing basic Russian, and then compounding the error exponentially with more “lessons” …. we have this nonsense of your inability to know or understand the language !

I’m not going to use 2 hours of time watching this film to find out( another of your pathetic time-wasting attempts?)

–but I am completely sure only Russian words are said in the scenes you refer to. True I haven’t watched or thought about the film this milennium- but I am sure that yet again this is you catastrophically being a fraud with an inability to know or speak Russian or ukrainian

If someone can prove or disprove what I am thinking about this Deer Hunter film then great! A wedding scene (I think).
Preferably without any cover up from any tag-team partner, if indeed I am correct again and there is no Ukrainian spoken at all in the film.

BTW add into this the Hollywood Taras Bulba being an entirely Russian emigree production… and John Wick being an entirely Russian world Belarusian ( I mention this because I know for these sick loser Banderetards, if they wrote him as a ukrop- it would create a national holiday in 404 similar in intensity to 9th May in Russia)

As always with the Americans, there seems to be a lot of BS around what the “founding fathers” intentions were on any given issue in the Constitution.

Take the Electoral College voting system… all sorts of idiotic claims about it being done to “make elections competitive” and to make sure every state be vigorously campaigned in.

To me it seems obvious that the system was implemented to reduce the massive chance and probability of corrupt voting over a vast territory (even for the time when US area was just in the North-East , but with too small number of states to make the “forces you to campaign in small and big states” theory just hot air).

Pretty much an acceptance that a straightforward numerical vote would be a sham of ballot stuffing, bought votes exacerbated by a being a highly federalised country with a dispersed population.

In other words, exactly what they have projected onto Russia.

That said, if these scum had forced Ukraine into a similar system – giving the economically important and more heavily populated Novorossiya regions a very decisively high number of electoral college votes (along with Kiev), trading it off with the Banderetards for some concession on another issue- that would have been good.

You forgot the ‘golden watch’ of the former KGB snitch. Orthodox Russians, like all barbarians, love the glittering of gold. They cover even the domes of their churches with gold!

So you compare the $30,000 (or whatever) watch of the KGB-snitch-turned 90s cigarette smuggler-turned Patriarch to the golden domes of Orthodox Churches, in a comment that reads only like a half-joke.

But they (like the ‘Balkanoids’) surely loved Orthodoxy more than Catholicism, which they always saw as the schism and heresy that always was. They preferred the Mongol domination following the Christ command: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell�.

The Tver prince was not a Catholic. He was excommunicated by the Moscow Church because he dared stand aganst the Mongol overlords, with whom the Moscow prince was allied. The entire Orthodox population of Pskov was excommunicated for providing shelter to the Tver prince.

So, to summarize where your personal corruption has led you:

1. Salvation can only come through a Church led by literal Judases, KGB snitches who participated in the persecution of Christians of the atheist regime they served. Catholics, Orthodox who defy the KGB snitch (including the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Alexandria and the Church of Greece, most Ukrainians, and probably the Romanian Church soon) etc. are hellbound. The gates of Heaven are kept by the guy who worked for the Bolsheviks as they persecuted Christians, who then enriched himself off cigarette smuggling in the 90s. *

2. Serving Muslim Turks and Muslim or heathen Tatars and Mongols is better than allying with Catholics. Like Saker, if forced to choose between integration with the West or coming under Islam, you would choose Islamic servitude.

You forgot this quote: ” “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.”

Your choice of nom de plume here is a blasphemy, is it not?

*The Polish government opened its Soviet-era archives. “Seraphim’s” hierarch’s records are very instructive:

https://www.rp.pl/artykul/247370-Przeszlosc-arcybiskupa-Sawy.html

The head of Polish Orthodoxy from 1965 was a conscious and secret collaborator of the Security Service under the pseudonym Jurek – according to files preserved in the Institute of National Remembrance.

The Security Service conducted the operation against Polish Orthodoxy under the code name “Byzantium�. Her files have been partially preserved.

There is also a work folder of TW “Jurek� with hand-written denunciations and annotations about receiving remuneration from the SB. Although no other folder has survived, the so-called personnel, in which the commitment to cooperate and receipts for the accepted money was kept, the content of the work folder leaves no doubt that the Orthodox Metropolitan of Warsaw and All Poland was a conscious and secret collaborator of the SB.

The IPN files show that almost all post-war leaders of Polish Orthodoxy and most of today’s archbishops – diocese leaders were secret collaborators of the SB. The Soviet KGB also took part in the development of the Polish Orthodox Church, sending its agents who penetrated the Orthodox community. Information obtained from colleagues from Poland was forwarded to Moscow.

This does not mean, however, that the Orthodox church was completely taken over by SB. In the files of the SO (the so-called object matter) of the “Byzantium�, information has been preserved about those who are rebellious towards the clergy, bishops and secular authorities. One of them was the Archbishop of Lodz and Poznan Jerzy (Aleksy Korenistow) – a Russian aristocrat. Although twice after the death of the Orthodox metropolitans he was the guardian of the metropolitan throne, considered to be the introduction to his appointment as the head of the Church, the Security Service effectively blocked his choice.

The Security Service recruited Archbishop Sawa (secular name Michał Hrycuniak) on May 31, 1965. He was registered under registration number 12348. There was no personal file of TW “Jurek� in which the recruitment process should be described. However, we know from the preserved portfolio that he had contacts with the SB before he was formally recruited. “During the period (to be acquired) 70 meetings were held, which allow us to state that the secret collaborator is loyal, honest and indifferent to the SB authorities,� wrote the first officer leading Colonel Zygmunt Siellaw.

The acquisition was related to Sawa’s assumption of a function at the Metropolitan Chancellery, corresponding to the post of chancellor of the curia. “The purpose of the acquisition was the need for current information on changes taking place in Orthodoxy, with particular emphasis on foreign contacts and negative socio-political phenomena among clergy and followers,� wrote the introductory note to TW’s “Jurek� folder.

TW “Jurek� became one of the most important security agents in the Orthodox Church. Many preserved notes show that he has repeatedly initiated meetings to provide information. He informed the SB both in oral form (so-called dictates) and wrote denunciations with his own hand. He also provided the Church’s internal documents and even letters written to the metropolitan with complaints about individual Orthodox priests. He also reported on Catholics and Protestants.

Now, of course the Catholic Germans, Poles, to be joined by the Lithuanians, presented themselves as killers of the body and of the soul.

So during the Orthodox mass, when we pray for the unity of the whole church, has the Good Lord, in your discussions with him, made it abundantly clear to you, that we’re to cease trying to work for such a communion with the “killing” Catholic Germans, Poles and Lithuanians?”

How about in the church that you worship in, do you pray for or against unity with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church?

You forgot the ‘golden watch’ of the former KGB snitch. Orthodox Russians, like all barbarians, love the glittering of gold. They cover even the domes of their churches with gold!
But they (like the ‘Balkanoids’) surely loved Orthodoxy more than Catholicism, which they always saw as the schism and heresy that always was. They preferred the Mongol domination following the Christ command: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell”.
Now, of course the Catholic Germans, Poles, to be joined by the Lithuanians, presented themselves as killers of the body and of the soul.

Kharkov’s Russian Civil War period pro-White elements were on account of that area having a large Russian population.

No, those were the Bolsheviks from Kharkiv. A lot of Russians came to the city to work its factories. I don’t tho the Whites were strong there. There were, of course, ethnic Russian Whites in Kiev.

I don’t think that AP ever said that there weren’t any Ukrainians fighting under the White banner, your squabble was over the exact amounts.

As for Natalie Wood, she probably wasn’t very nationalistic either way and could (and did) fit in equally comfortably in either a Russian or Ukrainian setting. Actually, it appears that she was most comfortable hobnobbing with her Hollywood friends – from all accounts, she was quite the socialite.

I would guess that neighbors like Germany and Sweden were referred to as proper nouns, and not by their location “at the edge,� but who knows?

Poles were referring to Ukrainians are Ruses, as Ukrainians at the time referred to themselves as Rusnaks or Rusyns. Both Rusnaks/Ruysyns and Poles referred to Russians as Moskals. Russians IIRC referred to themselves as Russky and to Ukrainians as Lithuanians or Poles initially, before later getting serious about the idea of annexing them and using the defunct old Rus state as the reason for doing so.

A Rusnak or Rusyn was no more a Russky than a Romanian is a Roman.

I think the term Ukrainians didn’t start to become popular until the 1830s among educated people (Gogol, even, listed himself as a Ukrainian at a hotel registry in Italy) and filtered down to the general population by the late 19th century.

I would definitely skip Västerås, and probably Uppsala too. Better to get an extra day or two in Stockholm and its surroundings. Swedes will feel differently, but to an American, the Uppsala Castle, say, will just be another castle among very many all over Sweden and Europe.

Thank you! I will skip Vasteras in that case.

My wife likes shopping in clothes boutiques, and I figured Uppsala would be good for that. We noticed last summer that Vienna was surprisingly bad for this specific thing. It was all either large multinational chain stores or extremely expensive French or Italian shops. Smaller Austrian cities were much better and more interesting for this purpose. But maybe Sweden is different.

I would concentrate on our flora and fauna, which is the true heart and soul of Scandinavia.

A week will be spent north of Arctic circle, basically hiking, taking a boat trip, etc.

Thank you for the videos!

Then again, I recall AP saying awhile that Kharkov’s Russian Civil War period pro-White elements were on account of that area having a large Russian population.

Reminded of the Kiev born Igor Sikorsky who saw himself as being Russian. National and ethnic identity can be problematical to define/clarify.

Natalie Wood never did the I’m not Russian, but Ukrainian scene like some others.

Germans and Swedish would also notice this when they live or visit America, I don’t think it is anything specific for Russians to notice this culturally different attitude in American.

Yes, of course. We just don’t have a name for it.

A Swedish journalist once told the story of how after an interview with a famous American rapper (Ice Cube or Ice T, I think it was) the rapper wrote him and said that they should “hang out” next time the journalist visited Los Angeles. This was only common American courtesy on the part of the rapper, of course, but the Swedish journalist took it to mean that they were now something like friends and was bummed out when he learned that it didn’t actually mean “hang out,” as it would have if a Swede said the same thing.

Amazing that we both independently and randomly mentioned this city in our posts at nearly the same time. What are the odds?

And my grandma’s birthplace at that! 🙂

I’m not sure how this proves that. Poles were aware of the people living there being Ruses (not Poles) and of them being distinct from Moskals (that is, different from the people to the northeast). Visitors have also contrasted the people living in Ukraine from those living in Russia (generally, to the detriment of the ones in Russia, likely due to Ukraine being more “civilized� amd familiar as a result of being part of Poland).

Sure. I meant “suggest” in the weak sense of making it more, rather than less, likely. A Pole could quickly check this theory by looking up how Poland referred to her neighbors at the time. I would guess that neighbors like Germany and Sweden were referred to as proper nouns, and not by their location “at the edge,” but who knows?

I don’t think that the name of the Netherlands implies the idea that the inhabitants there don’t have their distinct “civilization.�

No, of course not. But I assume we are trying to trace here the origin of Ukrainian nationhood, which must have started somewhere, just like that of the Netherlands.

On an unrelated note, Swedish Family: are Uppsala and Vesteras worth spending a day each in? I am making reservations for my summer road trip through Scandinavia.

I would definitely skip Västerås, and probably Uppsala too. Better to get an extra day or two in Stockholm and its surroundings. Swedes will feel differently, but to an American, the Uppsala Castle, say, will just be another castle among very many all over Sweden and Europe.

I can give you some landmarks and “tourist attractions” to check out later (most you will only need pass by car without booking anything), but if I went on a road trip through Norway and Sweden, I would concentrate on our flora and fauna, which is the true heart and soul of Scandinavia.

For novelty things to do, I would check out old episodes of the famous Russian travel show Орёл и Решка. Here are some I found with a quick search:

Germans and Swedish would also notice this when they live or visit America, I don’t think it is anything specific for Russians to notice this culturally different attitude in American.

I also read something funny in a 19th century novel (Henry James) – if I remember correctly (probably not), it is written that Americans girls created confusion in Italy, because all the men thought they were in love with them, when they thought they are just being polite.

You will often only notice superficial features of your culture when you have been in a different one.

A feature of American public culture is a public happiness and projection of smiling, laughing, etc, including to people they do not know. If Americans do not notice this, it is because they are immersed in their culture.

Of course, for people from different cultures, this can be a culture shock. (Even if you watched every American film and TV series, it is still surprising how friendly real Americans can be, but also how they can walk away just when they are talking to you a second before).

In Russian public culture, people have their own different idiosyncrasies, which is surprising for foreigners, but no-one in Russia will notice. Although really, Russian public attitudes are more similar to other Northern European cultures, so there is not so much culture shock for anyone travelling from Northern Europe.

When cultures have some strong differentiation, this is probably not a bad sign – rather an indication of cultural strength, or perhaps national power. Cultures with the most strange idiosyncracies perhaps correlates to the most historically vital ones: like Italy, France, Japan, etc.

Putin to Add Noahide Law to Russian Constitution

Video Link

Yes, I do see how he’s trying to “twist” your words here. He also seems to be master of illusion by being able to omit things that he knows of, that don’t support his fantastical views. In my discussion with him about Beauplan’s book about Ukraine, he tried very hard to somehow prove that Ukraine was not considered to be a “country.” As he appears to be familiar with the book, he was quite disingenuous in failing to point out that Beauplan himself often refers to Ukraine as a country within the book in many different contexts.

Wow! Why so much butthurt? I was not talking about good and bad, only about the difference in cultural codes.

I would take an insincere smile over a sincere scowl any day.

Where did I say that the smile is bad? Studies showed that when you smile, even if it’s forced, your mood improves, as well as the mood of people around you. It’s just the meaning of a smile is different: nothing (zero, zilch, nada, choose what you like) in the US, something in Europe and Russia.

I guess that’s possible, but it’s also possible the interviewer was confused by her robotic Russian accent and may have thought she misunderstood the question.

Sorry, dude, you underestimate your compatriots. While most Americans don’t speak any language except English, some do, at least they try to. The guy was conducting that interview in what he sincerely believed to be Russian. His disbelief that someone can read books for pleasure was quite genuine.

I can only imagine what a Russian bubble you must live in

Sorry, have to disappoint you again. My social contacts reflect my environment. Contacts with Russians are maybe ~5% of the total. About 10-15% are with other Europeans, ~10-15% with Chinese and other East Asians, maybe 10% with South Asians (Indians, Sri Lankans, etc.), and the rest with Americans. My collaborations are even more skewed: none with Russian labs, very few with European labs, one with a lab in Canada, the great majority with American labs.

As to self-praise, this comes from experience. I’ve interviewed many people (>20 with PhD for post-doc positions in my lab, >50 applicants to our grad school aspiring to a PhD) and came to the conclusion that if you want to compare them on a level playing field, you want to divide what Americans say about themselves by 10, what Chinese say about themselves by 3, and compare that to what Europeans (including Russians in the broad sense, i.e., people from former USSR) say about themselves.

So, I do not see any justification for your butthurt. America has a lot of virtues, but you need to read the cultural codes right to avoid being fooled.

I’m not familiar with how somebody out there may or may not have characterized Finstead’s understanding of Natalie Wood’s ethnicity, however, I am familiar that many feel that her paternal side had a Ukrainian origin. BTW, there seems little doubt that her mother’s line was Russian.

July 20, 1938 in San Francisco was born an actress of Ukrainian descent, Natalie Wood. Her real name is Natalia Zakharenko.

Her father is a native of Kharkov, Nikolai Zakharenko. His parents moved from Kharkov to Vladivostok in 1917, and when they became US citizens they changed their surname to Gurdin./blockquote>

https://auction.violity.com/en/new/415-at-the-age-of-8-this-hollywood-actress-of-ukrainian-origin-kept-her-whole-family

Romanov rule was the peak of Russian civilization.

Correct.

It has been demographic and cultural decline ever since.

No, the 90s were rock bottom. Russia has improved a lot since then. But it has not gotten close to Romanov Russia’s peak and unfortunately probably never will.

He is actually basically right on that one (he is rarely correct). Maybe not “way” but certainly below average.

Unia was the ‘coronation’ of the multi secular effort at Catholicization of the ‘East’ which took advantage of the struggles of the branches of the Rurikids for the title of Grand Prince of ‘All Rus’. The move gained in intensity and scope in the wake of the Fourth Crusade when the authority of the Byzantine Emperor waned. The Popes rushed to fill the vacuum and that’s why Daniel of Galicia was crowned by the Pope as ‘Rex Russiae’ while the ‘illustrious king’ committed himself “to show respect and obedience to the Apostolic See�, to “devoutly adopt and abide by the cult and the rites of the Latin Christians,� by subjecting himself and “all his kingdom� to the Roman Church�. Daniel Romanovich created the first Catholic Bishopric ‘in partibus Russiae’. He even participated in the Prussian crusade in 1222-1223, organized by Rome and led by Bishop Christian against the Skalvians (“Ruthenians with a great army besieged the Scalovians�).

Yes, better to be under Mongols than to be linked to Catholic Christians. Under such a philosophy, when the Orthodox people of Tver rose against the Tatars and were mercilessly slaughtered by the Tatars and their Muscovite collaborators, Tver’s prince was excommunicated by the Moscow-based Orthodox Church for his rebellion against the Tatar overlords when he moved to Pskov (as were the Orthodox people of Pskov for daring to provide shelter to this prince who had opposed the Mongols).

Similarly, many Balkanoids claimed to be grateful to have been ruled by Turks because the Turks kept the Catholics out. I think Saker follows this principle also.

Such sentiments have led you to believe that the one true Church and only Christian Church is limited to the one led by former KGB snitches who literally collaborated with a bloody atheist regime to persecute actual Christians….a strange, twisted and dark path.

You admit that ‘Rus’ was no more Orthodox: “Muscovia was categorized alongside Bulgaria and Moldavia as Orthodox, but not Rus�, “Rus self-identity and the idea that the Muscovites were Orthodox “foreigners�.

You are twisting my words. I bolded the relevant part of my quote to make it clearer for you. The Chronicles were written by Orthodox people; from 1440 they simply categorized Muscovites as an Orthodox people who were not Rus people, like Moldovans or Bulgarians (as opposed to non-Orthodox people, like Poles). Previously they had considered Muscovites to be Rus people like themselves but after the mid 15th century Muscovites began to be considered foreigners (albeit fellow Orthodox ones).