From what I’ve heard and seen from people in China, Deng Xiaoping, Liu Shaoqi and people associated with them were the ones directly managing then and thus largely responsible. Mao’s responsibility lies in promoting Deng Xiaoping and Liu Shaoqi to top position in 1956; since they were probably the two most influential ones then, maybe there weren’t really that much of a choice. He did what he could to get rid of them later on, starting the Cultural Revolution, etc, but Deng Xiaoping managed to sneak back to power in 1977 despite being removed from all posts in 1976 after being let back in 1973.

Deng Xiaoping in late 1970s officially pardoned or rehabilitated the party secretaries of the provinces that suffered most during 1958-1962, who were demoted afterwards and more harshly attacked during the Cultural Revolution. He is visibly guilty. He was not Mao’s designated successor. It was Hua Guofeng. But Hua Guofeng, Wang Dongxing etc overestimated the threat to them by the leftist Gang of Four and underestimated the threat of bringing Deng back, which they permitted in 1977. In fact, some older folks think Hua Guofeng, Wang Dongxing, etc, those in the middle faction were politically foolish and weak; by bringing down the Gang of Four, which indirectly justified Deng’s return to power in some sense, they essentially planted their own demise. Deng was political commissar of the 2nd Field Army, he had control of military and once reinstated he could use it to get rid of Hua Guofeng.

See https://gmachine1729.livejournal.com/172902.html for details.

There are still 600 mil Chinese with yearly income less than 1727 USD.

That is less than 4.74 USD per day.

Or, it is less than 32.88 RMB a day. They can barely buy three serves of noodles in coastal cities of China. One might call it a bare minimum.

China is at the same level as Malaysia now, I have been to Malaysia, even if you go to the rural areas in peninsular Malaysia you really will not call it a poor country, China is also at the same level South Korea and Taiwan were in 1990, or Japan in the 1970s, South Korea and Taiwan in 1990 were not poor countries, Japan in the 1970s was not a poor country either.

What would happen to this website without the 1st Amendment?

Is the average middle class Korean or Japanese as rich as the average middle class Dutch? Is that even a fair comparison?

Many Chinese for a long period of time wanted and fought for freedom but not for anything that you mentioned here. You take for granted that those are the desirable ends by themselves. Not many Chinese agree. Unless they are thoroughly doctrinated by the West.

Chinese ever since the opium war has a mission that is to make Chinese rich, and free from foreign horrors, like any other nation, like France (when they were not bullied by Hitler) and Britain. At times, Chinese thought it was industrialization, then a republic, or a revolution, or another one, or finally communism. Eventually it is pragmatism that put Chinese where it is today.

Chinese is still not really rich. Majority of Chinese are still poor. And Chinese got many problems, huge historical packages, historically recent dark memories. But I think the one major differences between today’s China and USA is that China has a clear view of its mission and that is to make any ordinary Chinese as rich as a middle class westerner. When and if China reaches that stage, China may eventually prove to be quite a disappointment again. ðŸ™�

I actually have this book on my shelf. This, and a number of books on Raping of Nanjing, and one on CCP campaign in 1948 in a norther Chinese city during the civil war that the CCP purposefully starved the city in an effort to destroy the enemy army within.

I have those books, but never quite managed to read them. Extremely difficult to read. It’s definitely a good thing, a great thing, that those brave authors researched and documented these events.

A related item is how Rwanda is getting out of their recent history. Chinese and CCP’s attitude seems to be to pushing those awful events into history research. The past is frankly on everybody’s mind, only that there’s not much to argue about. It is just downright painful. Other than having a watchful eye, what else can you really do about it? Constant discussion by general public is not desirable and that seems to be more or less the consensus of current Chinese society. When perceived necessary, the Culture Revolution is still mentioned in public, as a warning to the future, by even some of the top most CCP officials.

And of course there’re crazy folks who think Mao did everything right.

Quite a bit of US open and kindness, to any kind of dissidents, comes from its unique position of being a rich and very powerful country.

Frequently we can see in history that the confidently powerful are usually having an open mind and constantly going out of their way to be kind to peaceful enemies.

Also the modern west societies are organized in a historically speaking very peculiar way. It is centered on businessmen, for example. This bit of uniqueness after it being painted into a kind of generality, a universalism, often makes other societies in different times and places look awfully strange and oppressive. It gives the impression that the middles ages were dark and the Chinese past was a nightmare.

One way to look at it is to try to remove the benefits that should’ve being credited to technology, and then you have a hard look at the values of the political and spiritual arrangements.

I don’t get why people here of all places are so butthurt about ‘Chinese repression of dissidents’ anyway. Is China actually suffering as a result? Seems to be just getting stronger to me. & Just about all of the western countries (even the supposedly ‘genetically liberast’ Anglo ones) used to be very ‘repressive’ by today’s standards until quite recently (of course, repressive in a way that was acceptable to conservatives, not so much for leftoids). Would it be better or worse if our countries had continued to ‘repress’ the kinds of mentally ill people who have taken over the teaching and running of higher education here by denying them from attaining their positions (like say, Chinese did with the Nanking fantasist mentioned above?) & I can’t really imagine them being allowed to thrive here at any time in history other than the present…

Should be pretty obvious what he meant by ‘parents…part of the problem’. I’ll often hear someone say for instance, they can’t oppose immigration because ‘My grandfather was Polish, and he fought the Nazis!’… etc (and this is in Britain, in the USA that ‘I’m the product of hard working immigrants so therefore we must let more immigrants in’ is even more widespread). I mean, even you felt obliged to invoke that trope in the context of immigration restriction, so for most drones it more or less demolishes the idea that immigration restriction is a good or necessary thing at all…

So even if the immigrants are hard working and productive (helping the US war machine or whatever – some irony there) it still ends up biting the butt of the former-majority when their descendants open the floodgates because ‘my grand/parents were immigrants too!’ (and that’s the just white, assimilated ones, never mind the rest of them…).

It reminds me a lot of when Khrushchev and others began to cast blame and an accusatory finger at Stalin for his mismanagement and crimes. I would behoove the CCCP to loosen things up a bit, as they’ve allowed the country to go in an entirely different direction since Mao’s time.

No one, however, is forcing the US to financially support Ukraine. It must see some value in doing so.

Although this might be in countries like Bulgaria, it’s more of the opposite in Russia. No country than Russia generates endogenously more blog posts and television reports and references about Skid Row, Detroit, gay parades, etc.

Russia is far more immersed/connected in western and American culture than the exclave of Albania ( commonly referred to as “Poland”) is . Consumption of western products, adoption of western trends and ideas are far more advanced in Russia than the rest of the “Eastern bloc”.

Many of the things that fall under the “crazy Russia” category are not actually backwardness but are part of the same mindset we have with Americans that causes us to be involved in extreme events in common life. Free solo-climbing skyscrapers around the planet and posting it on Instagram, some of the extreme violence crimes, stories such as when that young woman with over a million followers on social media because of her advice on medicine….she took part in her birthday party in an indoor swimming pool, they dropped a huge amount of dry ice in …which then proceeded to her kill her husband and friend because the room was too small and enclosed for the subsequent reaction ( all recorded by themselves of course)! leaving her to care for their 2 children….and then one month after the deaths she got and publicised her new breast implants! Incredible that Karlin uses the cretinous and nonsensical term “sovok” when stuff like that is happening .

I think all these things stem from the fact Russia and US are frontier countries which creates these personalities.

No coincidence ( though American russia “experts” have no self-awareness ) that 2 terms most frequently applied to us in the 90’s and early 2000s …”like the wild west” …and “mafia state” all derived from the american conception of these terms.

We have the ability and strength of mind to decide what western things we like and what we dont like and want to adopt……prostitute states such as Poland do not have that

I’m sure they also help when antifa bashes your head in with almost no consequences.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ex-professor-accused-of-hitting-trump-supporters-with-bike-lock-at-free-speech-rally-in-berkeley-gets-probation

It is just a difference between legal and social repercussions, yeah you may argue that the US judiciary is captured by the deep state, so the independence of the judiciary is a sham (which is basically a claim that is almost impossible to prove or disprove), but in the US and Western countries there is separation of powers, and you have legal safeguards in the form of the legislative and the independent judiciary providing a legal counterbalance to the executive branch. You can also argue that such things as pulling a hitler salute or putting on a blackface, or attending a Nazi rally, and become unemployable as a result do not fall under the legal purview, and the US has at will labor anyway, so it is legal for a company to dismiss you for that for putting the company’s reputation in ill repute. Basically it is not the government sanctioning you, but a private enterprise, so that does not count under political suppression.

I’m sorry that the Chinese are not extreme self-hating ethnomasochists. We actually do that a lot and indulge in quite a bit self-hate at times, but the West is definitely #1 on this.

Frankly if you practiced that in any East Asian country, e.g. call for Abe to be killed in Japan, I don’t see how you don’t get into trouble. If you called for the murder of the Emperor, you might just disappear one day after an accident with the yakuza.

Well if you think that the Ds and Rs are a uniparty so gettting rid of one is like the other then you have a point. And maybe put your money where your mouth is, try to start a party around Xinjiang independence, or a party around HK independence, like the SNP in the UK or the Calexit in the US, see what happens to you. Or maybe try to hold placards in the middle of Tiananmen calling for the Chinese Politburo to be beheaded in the name of Islam, like what the Muslims did in the UK? Why don’t you try to shoot A VLOG of yourself doing it while giving an interview live on the air to CNN and see what happens? Or maybe organize your own posse to burn down an effigy of the entire Politburo in the middle of Beijing, try to shoot a VLOG of yourself, and then report here what happens? Or try to establish a millenarian movement with political aims questioning the legitimacy of the CCPs mandate of heaven, try to establish a popular movement, get an interview on the BBC about your aims to do so, and see what happens, and then try to report here on what happened to you.

things like praises of Japanese raping of Nanjing.

When your rape fantasies become your politics.

Well if you think that the Ds and Rs are a uniparty so gettting rid of one is like the other then you have a point. And maybe put your money where your mouth is, try to start a party around Xinjiang independence, or a party around HK independence, like the SNP in the UK or the Calexit in the US, see what happens to you. Or maybe try to hold placards in the middle of Tiananmen calling for the Chinese Politburo to be beheaded in the name of Islam, like what the Muslims did in the UK? Why don’t you try to shoot A VLOG of yourself doing it while giving an interview live on the air to CNN and see what happens? Or maybe organize your own posse to burn down an effigy of the entire Politburo in the middle of Beijing, try to shoot a VLOG of yourself, and then report here what happens?

Here’s a recent one.

A female professor was relieved of her teaching duties when it became widely known that she’s been saying, publicly and on the web, things like praises of Japanese raping of Nanjing. She’s still got the salary and all. Just no more teaching. 🙂

And her sayings became widely known only because she’s involved in some active back and forth on the web over the COVID-19 handling in Wuhan. She’s been posting such stuff for quite a number of years.

She studied in a Japan university. On hearing her treatment, some Japanese professors protested publicly until they being informed that she’s saying praises of such kind and the Japanese professors took back their protest.

Just the teaching duties. 🙂

They are ramping up the anti-Russia propaganda.

Now it’s a case of Russians are interfering in our fake pandemic vaccine profits!

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/the-russian-vaccine

Wait. Can we have a reduced death rate and excess deaths at the same time?

Lol no.

I quite dislike a lot of things about modern China and Chinese “culture” but your gaps in awareness are a barrel of laughs.

US, IMF, Oligarchs effectively run and finance Ukraine, Mr Hack. Plenty of american taxpayer money is involved in that. It’s still too pitiful amount to assist the failed state…but is still alot of current GDP/State budget of Ukraine.

Things are so bad that under the conditions imposed on Ukraine, their non-existant growth is not the worst possible thing…..the worst thing would actually be growth because then the loan repayments increase under already ridiculous conditions. LOL.

On the good news…..Ukraine have qualified for Euro 2020 ( postponed to next year) football tournament

Mr Hack my good friend, please don’t insult 35% of Ukrop GDP, American people worked hard for that money.

What are you blabbering about again, Mandela? 🙂

And calling for the CCP to be driven out of office is the same as calling for the republicans or democrats to be elected out of office, which no one is going to jail for yet. And calling for HK or Xinjiang independence is basically the same thing as calling for Scottish or Texan independence.

Well of course I would I would expect people who takes sides to dismiss these things, but that really goes with the territory right? And isn’t it funny how the people here for condemn the US government for printing money and so blase about the Chinese printing money and for their debt bubble?

Well aren’t the contents of this website basically providing contents to inspire people to attack the Federal government? That does not even go into the question of what types of links, if any the authors in this website have with governments or NGO, probably yes, probably none. You know about that billionaire who called Xi a moron for his handling of the coronavirus crisis, who is now charged with corruption and is now going to jail? It may be a coincidence, or not, or somewhere in between? I am not saying that the authors here are puppets of foreign governments or travelers, just asking the question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_influence_on_the_peace_movement

Quote possibly not, though I imagine it would still be collated somewhere. His confederates seemed genuine in their desire for the truth to exist somewhere and worried that people would die of old age and lose data forever.

Websites encouraging plots against the American government, or against ethnic groups in the US are actively attacked by federal agencies as well. I could think of a few websites off the top of the my head, as well as the memetic term of “fedposting” to bait such individuals.

“Beijing” has better things to do than to personally handle the verbal ejaculations of all the anguished souls on the Internet.

One wonders if Yang Jisheng would have gotten the same latitude had the book been released in 2020. My guess is not.

American then had about half the population compared to now…. and even with attempts to reduce the population coming in from from immigration…it is still going to increase in population at a rate much higher than other European countries, much of it hispanic or non-white. Australia and New Zealand face the same sort of dynamics ( i.e all relatively low density, english-speaking countries perceived as highly desirable to live in) but wont have anywhere near the same type of problems as US because they have had a much more selective and harsher immigration policy then US and for longer…and the south asia/Asia-pacific region ( i.e potential feeder region of immigrants) is going to remain at a fairly high rate of economic development and reduce flow of their emmigration, but for the US – central and South America are still likely to have staggering growth causing much emmigration.

Americans become as dumb as f*ck after first generation migrants, maybe even halfway through the first generation – without waves of talented and motivated Europeans and Asians emmigrating there – Americans become fat, dumb and lazy.

All this is relative though. American narcissism and insecurity creates the effect they are losing primacy in finance and military even when they are not even close to doing so . You see this in the “Make America great again” BS. Most of these people probably don’t even think America has ever stopped being the “greatest nation in the history of the earth” – that is not criticising Trump – he is doing fine,perfectly normal domestic policies and the usual american scumbag foreign policy

and still didn’t need to be saddled with all sorts of “entitlement� payments

Mr Hack my good friend, please don’t insult 35% of Ukrop GDP, American people worked hard for that money.

That was an interesting thing, actually. He did not get into trouble – but I believe he was a Party member as well, so in a sense he was permitted more latitude and more safety in researching this. He mentioned that he was assisted by librarians and other government entities as well if I recall correctly.

It was a strange thing because it was clearly politically sensitive, but at the same time, many of his sources felt that it had to be at least documented somewhere so that the genuine toll would be known. In summation, it seemed that they wanted the truth to exist somewhere, but also for it to remain deniable.

Some messy compromise of principles and pragmaticism, perhaps symbolic of much of China.

It’s almost as if keeping people at home reduces the death rate(also premature births).

I can remember a number of people suggesting economic turmoil and “stress” is going to kill lots of people. I saw some people here make that claim, and tons of people in Audacious Epigone’s comment section. It looks like those people are complete idiots.

At a time when a great many Americans are skeptical of official Government proclamations around the Kennedy Assassination, TWA Flight 800 and 9/11 why should official Government statistics be accorded any credibility.

After all, many in government regard 1984 as a how-to manual.

Do you honestly think that the the interviews within the short documentary were staged? There are plenty of other pieces about the sorry plight of the Uighurs at the hands of the ruling Chinese clique, check them out if you need more proof. Sorry to see that Ron Unz never bothered to reply…

How about liberate HK? Like if a man of Ron Unz’s prominence were to have a website about liberate HK? How about get rid of the CCP? And you may be downplaying Beijing’s sensitivity with respect to the Sino Japanese war.

Heh, while there are still some weeks left in the year for Corona-chan to ramp up the death rate, and the CDC might find some more Democratic Party voters, it seems:

Report Shows 2020 with Lowest Number of Recorded US Deaths Since 2009

CCP really isn’t that concerned with “crank” opinions; I’ve seen “Japan wuz right” before. Posting Coronavirus came from a Wuhan biolab, though, will get you a tea drinking meeting.

I think it’s because they still see the US as basically a white/European descent country (even though whites are now arguably in the minority) and therefore more like them on that level.

Also, I think a lot of Russians don’t like the Chinese and feel threatened by having such a large population and economically powerful nation right on their border, especially on their sparsely populated but resource rich Far Eastern border. Many seem to see Chinese annexation of Siberia is a real possibility and threat.

the news on the long-term effects SARS2 is unremittingly bad, even in asymptomatic cases.

The story in the link you provide refers to people who *died* of Covid-19. I never heard of long-term effects in asymptomatic cases. Could you provide a link for that as well?

My question remains, would we still hear about Ron Unz if he was Chinese, and he had the same attitude towards Xi personally and the Chinese government that he has towards the US government, do you think he would be permitted to publish allegations that Beijing was deliberately spreading coronavirus in order to sabotage Western economies, if he was Chinese and living in China? Because Ron Unz and some people here putting China on a pedestal is so tiresome.

Even better, if he published long articles how Nanking massacre and other Japanese atrocities in WW2 were fake and Japanese empire was the good guy who was liberating China. This would be even funnier 😉

And unfortunately nationalists do seem to be even less intelligent than the average person. The quality of human capital in nationalist movements in all countries is abysmally low.

The question becomes, “Why is the U.S. the exact opposite of this case?�

The U.S. is an extreme example of the phenomenon.

Do you have a source for these claims? It seems more likely that the current figure you cite is an overestimate, given the generous criteria used to count something as a “Covid-19 death� (e.g., no distinction between “dying with� and “dying from�). Other illnesses are not counted this way.

etc

the number of deaths from covid is underestimated everywhere except Belgium

Given the MSM’s total dishonesty on a plethora of other subjects, why should we give any credence to their narrative regarding Xijiang?

pajeets and hajis who were posted as security guards took money from White women who were being quarantined in exchange for sex.

Very Chad.

And unfortunately nationalists do seem to be even less intelligent than the average person. The quality of human capital in nationalist movements in all countries is abysmally low.

The question becomes, “Why is the U.S. the exact opposite of this case?”

In this country the anti-nationalists are the stupidest echelon of American society. Let us look at some behaviour of SJW Globalism in action:

— They stand on highways where they could be hit by a vehicle moving 60+ MPH.

— They are incapable of feeding themselves. Remember the CHAZ/CHOP pleas for vegan food deliveries? How about the CHAZ garden?
.

.
— After stating they want to defund the police, they wonder why there are no police to defend them from the violent Antifa tranny assault… Who is stupider? The attacker? Or, the atackee(1)?

https://twitter.com/henryrodgersdc/status/1275506187400863746?s=20

Regardless of credentials, these critters & varmints are right next to the “Too Stupid To Survive” line. It makes one wish the world was harsher so that extinction would claim them.

PEACE 😇
______

(1) Is “atackee” an actual word? Clearly “victim” does not apply, so I am going with “atackee”. Noun – A willing acceptor of violence and harm. Exclusively applicable to non-sexual encounters.

This does not fully capture the pathetic & delusional nature of the “atackee”. If anyone wants to contribute better terminology… Please feel free.

The average person is not very intelligent, including the Russian nationalists

And unfortunately nationalists do seem to be even less intelligent than the average person. The quality of human capital in nationalist movements in all countries is abysmally low.

I cannot think of one instance of allergies or severe sickness when i was growing up. Today kids are allergic to everything.

Agreed. The allergy thing is yet another example of media-driven mass hysteria. And social media encourages even more mass hysteria.

When you have mass media, and even worse when you have social media, you end up with perpetual mass hysteria which leads to a Nanny State.

The allergy thing is just one example of the crazy hypochondria (and in the case of children hypochondria-by-proxy fuelled by hysterical parents) that mass media has created. You want other examples? ADHD. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Fibromyalgia.

Thanks, that was an interesting article. I agree with the thesis. I’ve been an immigrant for now more than half my life in various countries and I’ve never taken out unemployment (and I’ve been unemployed for some stretches) and try to follow the rules of the host society and learn the local language.

There are some caveats though. It is true that immigration depresses wages. Especially massive, low skilled immigration and suppressing it effectively like Trump wanted could have lead to higher wages for poor blacks. It’s also true that it creates a less homogeneous society and there are no guarantees that second or third generation children whose wages will be depressed by new waves won’t try to form an ‘Aztec nation’ culture that divides the country along one more fault-line.

In terms of race, I might have a strange view on it. Human societies are social and they do have friend groups and societies and tribes, that helps groups to compete and survive, but ultimately race is a biological concept. And if you think about it from that perspective, then in every species, your biggest enemy are other members of the species in competition for food and mates. I noticed that in the last 15 years, the people who I really got angry at and was ready to punch their face in after an argument, were very close to me genetically and grew up in a similar geographic location and spoke the same mother tongue, and one even looked a lot like me. This is probably partly genetics based. Only when I have a job and family can I afford to worry about luxuries like my tribe. In the modern world my tribe also doesn’t offer protection to me, and if they have bought into Woke culture and transgender kindergarten reading hours that might actually be harmful to my children and passing onto them what I think are good values, there is less reason to waste time on them on the Internets. I’d rather live in an anti-Woke country where I was a minority. Sometimes I do miss the community, and talking to people in a bar who get my cultural references, and even the organized religion aspects… but the feeling passes if I read enough news.

Anyways, I’ll try to read the columns more regularly.

1. in spite of the author’s very first post saying ‘off-topic’ posts were verboten, more of the thread is about us/russkie/china geopoliticking than COVID19… hmmm… i guess the meaning was either meaningless, toothless, or -you know- doesn’t apply to some people… hmmmm…
.
2. please -anyone- WHAT does the present PCR ‘test’ test for ? does it test for COVID19 or what ?
ok, let me save you the five minutes of googling… it most certainly DOES NOT test for COVID19 specifically, it ONLY tests for coronavirii IN GENERAL…
would you tell me, please, are or are not coronavirii omnipresent ? ? ?
ding time’s up: yes, everywhere, all the time… huh, how about that…
bonus question: if the false positive rate is a reasonable 30-60%, how many tests before you face a near statistical certainty of ‘testing’ ‘positive’ for, well, um, for something… maybe…
yeah, i will let you do the math (or ‘maths’ for retarded euros)…
.
3. gee, just WHY would the FDA seemingly without good reason prevent a simple paper-type ‘litmus test’ that could be made at any plant that makes paper, be cheap, easy, able to be self-administered, more or less instantaneous, AND is specific to COVID19… huh, gee, wonder why The They wouldn’t want that, huh; not ’cause they WANT a shitty test with false postives to inflate ‘case’ numbers by hook AND by crook for their own agenda of ‘state’ control of the sheeples…
heaven forfend, surely it cain’t be that ! !! where is my fainting couch, i have the vapors ! ! !
.
4. have not bothered to google it yet, but wondering just WHEN (if EVER) the fed govt got involved in INCENTIVISING pandemic case reporting by offering cash on the barrel head per ‘positive’ patient, and a bonus if you kill them off with intubation… has there EVER been a disease pandemic where the hospitals and doctors were incentivized by cash to inflate case numbers ? ? ? EVER ? ? ?
.
perhaps mr k would agree with forbes that we leave this type of injurious conjecture to the ‘experts’ (you know, the ones who likely created the pandemic, one way or another)…

Your point is indistinguishable from mouth-breathing retarded fuckwits whose response to criticism of their weltanschauung can be summarised as…

“Well, if’n y’all don’t lahk it heer, y’all kin jes’ git da fuck out.. hyuk hyuk”

Folks like that are generally ignorant of the world beneath their feet. They tend to invest emotional energy in retarded shit – e.g., stupid ignorant primitive tribal fairy-tales and nonsense that proceeds therefrom.

I have no strong affection for the Chinese political leadership – like the entire global political class, they are grifters whose first objective is to enrich their cronies by organised parasitism, and I would applaud executing them all pour encourager les autres.

The Chinese variant has acknowledged that stealing other people’s shit through conquest doesn’t work as a long-term strategy anymore, which is something of a geopolitical mitzvah (especially relative to the behaviour of the US Death Machine). The CCP has recognised that the best way to achieve their narrow, venal objective is to generate supernumerary output (i.e., output above subsistence) in as large a population as possible… and then to grift as much of the surplus as possible.

A side-effect of that realisation, is rapidly rising living standards for a billion people who don’t yet give a fuck about individual rights… because hitherto they were more focused on ensuring they had adequate calories to survive the short term.

Give it another 5-10 years and the average 20-something urban Chinee will be just as self-absorbed as US undergraduates, and the CCP will have to let out the reins.

Censorship has similar characteristics to torture and prohibition: everyone knows it doesn’t work, but some people find it profitable to do it anyhow.

Chinese censorship seems to be a bit like the US drug prohibition strategy… a hyper-expensive way to ensure that some apparatchiks get paid, while ensuring that anyone who wants the banned thing can get it anytime they like.

The thing with America is that these factors apply to a certain extent but not to an extent necessarily extreme enough to predict a collapse. People may be desperate enough to elect a Trump but not desperate enough to go open mass rebellion.

When a large country is ruled by a narrow elite misaligned in numerous ways with the overwhelming majority of the population

So far it is not an overwhelming majority. The elite establishment (everyone other than Trump and perhaps Cruz among Republics, everyone other than Warren and Sanders among Democrats), had the support of at least close to half of their respective parties. It may be a slim majority on both Right and Left who are out of step with the elite, but not an overwhelming one.

instability may result.

Correct. But the severity of instability reflects the magnitude of the disconnect. Trump got elected. Sanders almost became the Democratic candidate. We are seeing riots worse than LA in the early 1990s but not as bad as the late 1960s.

When that ruling elite has become remarkably corrupt, greedy, and incompetent

This part is very accurate.

leading to poverty and misery for the bulk of the population,

This part is not accurate. The upper and upper-middle (professional) classes have been doing well, much better than ever. That’s about 30% of the population. Another 20% to 30% or so are doing about the same. Such people probably wouldn’t want a lot of disruption either. And another third to 40%, primarily the white working class, have seen their fortunes sink.

plus endless foreign and domestic disasters, such instability multiplies.

Correct. Fortunately the severity of the factors above in the USA is not yet such that instability is of disastrous proportions. It has taken the form of Trump disrupting the Republican Party thanks to angry white working class voters. At the other end of the political spectrum, the riots are not yet close to 1960s levels.

Under such circumstances, the likelihood of that elite believing it needs to severely clamp down upon such an apparently restive population becomes ever greater.

The elite can also seek to coopt and water down resistance to it.

Covid is like the flu. Enough with this bs that it is like the t virus from resident evil.

What’s there not to “romanticize” about the older system, where the US acquired needed workers for its factories (yes, at one time the US had a lot of factories), and still didn’t need to be saddled with all sorts of “entitlement” payments? My father became a highly skilled machine operator, as he said an “A” operator that could run any machine in the shop. The company specialized in producing highly accurate toleranced gears for military contracts, made of very expensive metals. He was never unemployed and lived well and was able to assist both myself and my sister gain college educations (we both earned Masters degrees). So yes, I’m quite proud of my father’s achievements.

Along those same lines, I don’t quite follow what you mean by the “my parents bit” being some kind of a problem?…Although I’ve been unemployed a few times throughout my life, due to regular recessions and company closures (my sister has not and worked her whole life as a schoolteacher), I’ve always payed my taxes and never spent one day in jail, not even a misdemeanor…I’m not bragging, but just making the point that overall, it’s turned out good or everybody involved. 🙂

The previous US immigration system with national origins quotas privileging Northwestern Europeans and requiring sponsorship for naturalization was certainly superior, though we shouldn’t romanticize it too much. And it must also be remembered that this system was put into place after decades of uncontrolled mass immigration that resulted in catastrophes like the world’s single largest Jewish infestation and the mafia.

The “my parents” bit is part of the problem. I don’t mean you in particular, but it’s quite common that many otherwise patriotic Americans struggling with immigration reform because they end up taking it as an insult to their own families.

And yes, Steve Sailer has frequently described the Democratic “new majority” strategy as being analogous to using ringers to rig Little League games. Apt.

I’m not going to watch the clip because I am not a video peasant and video content makes me angry. I’m not wholly ignorant of Chinese tyranny or anything–simply not that well informed for the simple reason that I’m not Chinese.

I’m aware, for instance, that China has London-level CCTV covering the entire country but with far more advanced biometrics and AI. I’m well aware of their “Great Firewall” and am also personally victimized by it (commercially). There are many other such things, and of course in these Marxist-Leninist gangster dictatorships sometimes far more horrifying things happen. But it’s not my fight, and it was also not germane to the points Ron Unz made.

While I’ll agree with you that it should take more than just the ability to breathe and have a heartbeat in order to become a US citizen, the US has historically played a role as a large country willing to take in new citizens from around the world. We should have stronger controls at our borders and curtail the influx of criminals and felons from other countries. My parents were immigrants to this great country, but needed to have somebody sign their request for entrance that would ensure that any financial obligations that they incurred, would be handled by their sponsor in case they couldn’t find employment, and this included rent and groceries too. This sort of an arrangement is still within human memory and I think that it would be wise to incorporate some of these ideas into the current model going forward. The Democrats should think of newer and less costly ways to find members for their party, don’t you think? 🙂

I can see certain cases where some help could be afforded to those perhaps from war torn areas, but now we’re getting into specifics, and as we both know “the devil is always to be found in the details”.

Watch the clip in #79 to get a better idea of the police state and surveillance going on within China.

I don’t doubt that China is authoritarian nor that it suppresses dissent.

But I remain ignorant of how extensive its suppression of dissent is, how harshly dissidents are treated, and which topics are taboo.

I know a few things from English language media and social media, but overall my knowledge is limited.

In any case that’s not really my point. 128 apparently thinks it’s some sort of fantastic point that China presumably clamps down more harshly on dissidents than the United States does. It’s a bad point for two reasons:

1 – None of the points Ron Unz raised in his original post that spurred the discussion had anything to do with dissent. He brought up COVID, fiscal and trade balances, unemployment, and order. China appears to be doing better than America on these things.

2 – More fundamentally, it betrays a liberal universalist worldview that anyone can become American–or Chinese. The embrace of this worldview is leading us to extinction. The old “Love It or Leave It” yarn implies that America is good because of its positive qualities rather than it is good (or at least important) because it is one’s home. Whether or not Chinese dissidents enjoy the same freedoms as Ron Unz, Paul Craig Roberts, and Godfree Roberts is therefore completely irrelevant.

Agreed. Also, I’d be curious to know as well whether those blood clots are permanent. The individuals in question died. Does anyone have any idea whether or not blood clots are still present in those who survived, and if so, doesn’t the body of a healthy individual have the ability to eventually expel blood clots (honest question. I know nothing of blood clotting in the body’s organs)?

I mean for a long time someone had a little cult preaching the destruction of the Han “slave race” and how China should stop existing.

https://supchina.com/2019/03/13/chinas-intellectual-dark-web-and-its-most-active-fanatic/

With regards to corona, I think the evidence shows that it can be contained if you are willing to resort to Chinese measures, or have a naturally compliant population with almost no contrarians, or where social and political pressures marginalize contrarians, but then China would not be allowing the corona skeptics here to publicize their views if they were Chinese living in China right?

China doesn’t hand out citizenship as easily as decadent Western countries.

Well, my impression is that in many respects America these days is far more “totalitarian� than China.

Really? While I abhor the curtailment of freedom of speech going of in the US that you do a service to expose, there’s really no reason to try and downplay the draconian efforts going on within China.

It seems that you’re giving a green light associated with the problems of free expression as regards Hong Kong and Taiwan, as if these are minor issues not really worth complaining about, but how about the problem in the far north west of China, regarding the Uighurs? Should we sweep their human rights problems under the rug too? Add all of this up, and I think that you have a problem much larger than anything you see happening in the US.

Video Link

But then there really is a difference in what makes a person a pariah in the US and China are different, but still the point is that the authors here would not even be allowed to print this website and would all be gone if they are Chinese in China and the things they were saying about the US they were saying about China, especially if they are in the position to influence people.

Imagine thinking that a virus could be contained through “social discipline.” Karlin should stick to HBD and other topics that are more within his purview.

“Nor do they have the fortitude to “power throughâ€� the requisite deaths into herd immunity – which is perhaps just as well, since the news on the long-term effects SARS2 is unremittingly bad, even in asymptomatic cases.”

Where does the linked article mention anything about long-term effects on asymptomatic cases? Oh wait, it doesn’t.

Well you could argue that Unz.com or its Chinese equivalent is something that somebody or a lot of people could organize on right?

The US was picking the fight with Russia, which means that sanctions and economic war were always on the cards, which means that we would end up where we are now regardless.

I saw this coming 10 years ago with the big push for Globohomo. Why single out Russia, whose laws were less restrictive than “good boy” Poland? Most Commonwealth nations and Arab monarchies outright ban or execute gays, but Obama was kissing the Saudis’ ring less than a year after criticizing Russia. Also, he couldn’t remove the very outdated Jackson-Vanick sanctions without levying new ones.

As for Ukraine, you can’t trust any statistics about the economy when it is coming from a country that has been lying about its population size for 20 years.

a large land rip off (Crimea) the likes of which hasn’t been seen since WWII

Is Crimea bigger than Kosovo? I have never checked.

“This number is greatly underestimated. The actual number of deaths from coronavirus has undoubtedly already exceeded one million”

Do you have a source for these claims? It seems more likely that the current figure you cite is an overestimate, given the generous criteria used to count something as a “Covid-19 death” (e.g., no distinction between “dying with” and “dying from”). Other illnesses are not counted this way.

Closing borders is ultimately an unrealistic way of stopping the spread, as illustrated by the recent emergence of cases in New Zealand, which has been in a hermetically sealed lockdown for months.

This is a media virus, and A. Karen/Karlin is unfortunately contributing to that with his hyperventilating, panic-inducing coverage.

There are about 30 autoimmune disorders, many of which essentially didn’t exist 30 years ago. These are real new diseases with real suffering, not artifacts of better reporting or imagination. Also rates of the older autoimmune diseases have shot way up.
Something in the environment is different. For example, gluten in bioengineered wheat is far stronger than it was even 10 years ago. Gluten is a natural insecticide which attacks the gut of insects. Also it stimulates pleasure receptors in human brains. In humans, a function of the gut is to let nutrients in and keep poisons out. If the cells which do this are attacked, you’d expect pathological autoimmune responses to various non-nutrients crossing the gut barrier…
Do not blame the victim. Blame the psychopathic Ag/Medical/pharma complex.

There was a study done some time ago from a Western source that found that by and large, China’s censors did not really bother with paying attention to random dissenters. Organized opposition to the government was censored but individual complaints are generally ignored.

I suppose it could be different with hot button issues like HK but the limits are always very clear.

You are making my point. If this thing can spread asymptomatically for months, there is no conceivable “state capacity” that can prevent or even mitigate it.

Perhaps someone who is Chinese can inform us what Chinese dissidents are allowed to publish and whom they are allowed to reach.

You seem too intelligent, if not too well read, to post something as naive as this (Me thinks that you are a wee bit disengenuous here,Thorfy)? Do you really have any doubts that China is one of the most authoritarian governments in the world today, and is drilling down quite hard on any signs of dissent?

These are decent points that you make – we’ll see how the world stands at this time next year.

One who labels those who question the mainstream consensus as mere “conspiracy theorists” is either being dishonest or naive. We have ample evidence of duplicitous media manipulation of public opinion dating back over one hundred years with many prominent examples; rabble rousing coverage of the destruction of the USS Maine leading to the Spanish-American War, atrocity propaganda during WWI, Walter Duranty’s duplicitous coverage of the catastrophic effects of Dekulakization. The capacity to manufacture consent has been greatly enhanced by the pioneering work of Edward Bernays following WWII, the ubiquity of mass communication, and the declining capacity of the critical reasoning and independent thought capacities of the general public which has been reduced to utter dependency upon their little devices and social media networks.

The technocratic scientific dictatorship is looming, and one need not be Sherlock Holmes to piece together the various seemingly disconnected strands that taken individually appear harmless, or even benevolent (to some). Various agendas are being openly discussed by the Davos set: transhumanism, digital ID, DNA/RNA vaccines, cashless society, Chinese style social credit systems, AI governed facial recognition technology/ubiquitous surveillance cameras tied to urban 5g smart-grid.

I urge everyone to research these questions, and further, research the motivations and interests of the various commentators, industrialists, journalists, economists and doctors on both sides of the debate. Study their physiognomy. If once can become properly attuned, it is quite possible to discern those who speak with love in their heart from those motivated by avarice.

An interesting interview detailing some aspects of my comment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKdsL57SUZo&feature=youtu.be
Video Link

Another example of CCP Taiwan psychosis:

‘Those who play with fire will get burned’: Beijing warns Washington after US health chief’s visit to Taiwan
https://www.rt.com/news/497821-us-taiwan-china-coronavirus/

https://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/jinping-takes-up-the-us-challenge/#comment-3922573
“If the US is really going to contest and stop China, Taiwan is the place where to draw the line in the sand.”

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-will-kill-millions-crater-the-world-economy/

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-cost/

It didn’t “kill millions”, the world economy is more or less fine (a fake and gay thing like a “subprime crisis” did worse), and life expectancy is okay.

My question remains, would we still hear about Ron Unz if he was Chinese, and he had the same attitude towards Xi personally and the Chinese government that he has towards the US government, do you think he would be permitted to publish allegations that Beijing was deliberately spreading coronavirus in order to sabotage Western economies, if he was Chinese and living in China? Because Ron Unz and some people here putting China on a pedestal is so tiresome.

Then again, we know that Anatoly Karen (I mean, Karlin) has been pushing coronadoom fear-porn since February, including the infamous prediction that it will “kill millions� and his false assertions regarding the fatality rate.

The number of officially registered deaths from coronavirus worldwide is 750,000, and the epidemic (on a global scale) is growing. This number is greatly underestimated. The actual number of deaths from coronavirus has undoubtedly already exceeded one million

Karlin’s warnings (in January) about the need to close borders, provide people with masks, etc. were absolutely correct (it’s a pity the politicians did not listen to him)

No, because I’m not Chinese.

The fact that you think this is clever is part of the problem. It betrays the idea that anyone can become, or at least should be able to become, an American.

If anyone can become American, then Americans don’t exist. Or at any rate soon won’t.

I suspect that the Donbas wold have managed just fine and have been forced to finally modernize its industry to reflect 21st tecnologies. Actually, Yanukovych’s last move was to try and sign on with Russia’s Eurasian Union, it was another about face that forced him to finally flee Ukraine.

Who would pay for it? Ukraine, lol? EU lied to Yanukovich by low balling the costs of EU trade agreement. And even then they refused to pay even the little fake number of a few $billion. When Ukrainians did their own audit, their cost estimates were closer to the truth, in the range of couple hundred $billion, similar to what EU was paying Poland. This is why Yanukovich bailed on the trade deal.

Nobody in EU cared about Ukrainian heavy industry. How many Antonov airplanes did EU purchase? Motor Sich helicopters? Lol. It was Russia who was the customer, and it was Russia who was supposed to pay those hundreds of $billions and go broke trying to modernize Ukrainian production to EU standards while EU would be happily raping Ukraine of their people and resources and using them as their cum dump (excess product dump).

Russia refused to be a part of that and localized production instead, wisely. Ukrainians lost people and strategic industries. But hey, they can now develop Candy crush apps for Western corporations in Lvov coffee shops, hipster style, so its all good.

It’s true that on the upside Russia has been forced to rely more on itself to procure goods that it had been used to buying elsewhere, but I’m not sure that overall this has added much net to overall GDP.

Domestic production means domestic employment which means domestic paychecks that drive consumption aka GDP. It also reduces oil export dependence because need to import is less.

Oil and gas prices were being forced down due to US and Saudi cooperation to stem the rise that was supported by Russia. The aggression in Ukraine was a convenient marker in this trend that accelerated this decrease in prices.

And now shale oil is down big time. At Russian sweet spot price of $42, shale will find it difficult to come back.

And today, with the world economy starting to tank, how will that loom for Russia’s economy where oil is still its #1 export?

Oil exports are only something like 8% of Russian GDP. Even if they disappeared completely, it would hurt, but wouldn’t be the end of the world. Russia is well on its way to become breadbasket of the world with booming agricultural exports, and its manufacturing is sufficient to cover domestic demand. This obsession with trade balance is weird anyway. US hasn’t ran a trade surplus since the 70’s, and US didn’t end. If Russian oil exports decline and trade goes into deficit, its not the end of the world either.

None of them are Chinese.

Perhaps someone who is Chinese can inform us what Chinese dissidents are allowed to publish and whom they are allowed to reach.

My take is that Western, and especially American, dissidents are permitted to publish and disseminate propaganda in a limited fashion as an artifact of the fact that the British and American constitutions were established by Enlightenment liberal rebels.

The contemporary powers that be no longer support free speech or the right of dissidents to publish and disseminate propaganda, but legal obstacles as well as simple institutional inertia get in the way of fully stamping out dissent (for now).

China, by comparison, is a communist dictatorship that rules over an oriental society that never believed in any individual rights to begin with.

Would any of the China bulls here put their money where their mouth is and live in China and take Chinese citizenship?

“since the news on the long-term effects SARS2 is unremittingly bad, even in asymptomatic cases….”

If there aren’t symptoms, how can there be long-term effects? The linked article doesn’t say anything about asymptomatic patients.

Then again, we know that Anatoly Karen (I mean, Karlin) has been pushing coronadoom fear-porn since February, including the infamous prediction that it will “kill millions” and his false assertions regarding the fatality rate.

You know what is funny? How the most ardent defenders of China here like Ron Unz or God free Roberts are not posting from China. I mean what do you think would happen to Ron Unz of God free if they are living in China, and posted that same of articles about China that they post about the US here, particularly Ron Unz, Would we even hear about him? Or maybe he would be doing hard labor or house arrest for the next 1000 years, like you know what?

The pandemic is global and viewed as a natural disaster, and while the US has not been successful at combating COVID-19 failures are globally widespread. Additionally, the actual lethal harm caused by the disease is somewhat modest which limits the perception damage caused by it.

Likewise, high unemployment as a result of COVID-19 is not contained to America.

Horrendous budget and trade deficits–not new, and nobody cares.

The Maoist cultural revolution has disturbed many foreign observers, but it should also be noted that this cultural revolution is in support of a religion which been adopted by many foreign countries. Even most non-Western countries incorrectly believe that racism is wrong and that the explanation for black woes in America is racism.

But most importantly you’re onto something in noting that US dominance of global propaganda is effective. Perception is reality for most, and furthermore as John Derbyshire has noted previously perceptions tend to shift slowly. Note how for instance that many people still hold the view that China is a poor and backwards country whose successes are only due to foreign markets and the theft or imitation of foreign technology. This was perhaps an accurate if harsh description of China at the turn of the millennium, but certainly not today.

What would dent the US image abroad quickly? A currency crisis, serious military defeat, or a civil war.

California is a barely habitable third world craphole with a cost of living adjusted poverty rate of 25 percent that should have a population half of its present population. Much of the interior is mountains, or farmland in the Central Valley with a lot worse climate than the coast, or uninhabitable desert, and the thin sliver of land along the coasts is already fully occupied, unlike British Columbia where is is still a lightly populated interior with a reasonable climate to absorb the overflow from the Vancouver metro area. Well you could build 60 floor cheap commie blocks like the Singaporeans do in order to lower housing costs along the coast, but that is not how Americans like to live, since the traditional layout of US and Canadian cities is a dense central business district core or only a few blocks surrounded by single family detached housing, like you see in Texas. Basically the terrain of California is like Japan or Southern China, and traditionally Americans are used to having a lot more living space and at a cheaper price than the Chinese or Japanese do.

Russian nationalists

Not just the government, but the great majority of Russian citizens, support improving relations with China.

Russian nationalist groups were mainly crushed, or at least infiltrated and dismantled by government/security services, more than a decade ago, and then part of their views re-arranged, and re-appropriated. It’s an unusual minority view, not some kind of important or common fashion in Russia.

It’s possible that some people who dislike government for its internal policy should be expected to oppose its orientation in external affairs. You can see something similar in America. The people who are against the government for its internal policies, also likely opposed its external policies.

But Twitter polls are the stupidest thing I have ever heard – Twitter operates like a flow-diagram, that leads user to those accounts who match precisely their own, personal views. So the idea of polling people from those accounts, is useless, as the Twitter account itself has already selected people with a predetermined selection of views. It’s just such a simple machine where people input their clicks, and it matches them to other users who inputted similar choices in their clicks. The more you input clicks into Twitter, the more precisely it should lead you to accounts that match your views.

rt, it doesn’t matter how many photos of Skid Row, San Fran shit and needle filled streets, Chicago crime stats or BLM/Gay protests you show them

Although this might be in countries like Bulgaria, it’s more of the opposite in Russia. No country than Russia generates endogenously more blog posts and television reports and references about Skid Row, Detroit, gay parades, etc.

–

Aside from the propaganda layer. Most people don’t idealize America in Russia. There is more of positive view of Scandinavia, Europe.

Navalny does actually idealize America – or more the anglosaxon world -, but the reason is because his core politics is like American Republican Party people (he was kind of originally right-wing mild nationalist, who then moderated his views to match a new audience of disaffected hipsters and schoolchildren).

So, Navalny, for example, thinks that we should all have American style of suburbs with large houses, and long drives to work.

the image of Paradise America in their mind that they soked up when watching TV as teenagers

Although the most popular American media consumed as teenagers in the 2000s at least, was usually something violent and involving guns, gangsters and shooting. Tupac was very popular at least 15 years ago. The coolest films were something like Goodfellas, Godfather, Pulp Fiction, etc.

However, I think the proportions of consumption, and production, of media in America, exported, has changed a lot in the recent years, to emphasize less violent and sensational media. Nowadays the popular American media in Russia, seem to be media like Grey’s Anatomy and Big Bang Theory.

The US still has all the prestige

In this, the cultural hegemony of the United States plays a huge role. Here is our child at school was given a homework assignment-to portray his favorite fairy-tale personages. Quite natural these were American (turtles).

However, American doctors in garbage bags were seen by everyone, and kissing shoes to black dominants was also seen by everyone. And it really damaged America’s prestige