On the identity of soma see: Mott T. Greene, “The True Identity of Soma,” Natural Knowledge in Preclassical Antiquity (Baltimore, Johns Hopkins, 1992), p 106-137. On the basis of evidence in the Rigveda and its import as ethnopharmacology Greene demonstrates that Soma was a derivative of the same rye ergot from which Hoffman derived LSD-25. This makes good sense in light of the effects described in the Rigveda and the history recounted of the loss of the magic elixir (the original makers thought they were deriving their elixir from a specific strain of rye itself, not understanding that it was a specific strain of rye infested with the ergot. When the infestation died out, their recipe no longer worked). Greene’s demonstration is conclusive.

A distinction needs to be made between the “Aryan” genome and “Aryan” culture. Plainly many aspects of early Indian culture are “Indo-European” in provenance but equally, many are to be attributed to pre-contact Indian cultures — of which the Indus Valley civilization is a prominent example, but also the Tamil culture of southern Indian and Sri Lanka. It is notable that there is NO evidence in Indus Valley archeology for warfare or violent conquest. None.

This account exaggerates the element of martial violence in the intrusion of the “Aryan” culture into India. This process of infiltration lasted millennia, with long stays along the way in the Bactria Margiana Archaeological Complex (where Indian-Aryan pharmacology probably originates) and in Iran (where the Zend Avesta is a text parallel to the Rigveda).

Doubtless some of the original contacts were violent conquests but the character of most the social contact over the longer scale would have involved “Aryan” absorption of indigenous culture and mutual influence. It more likely resembled the mutual assimilation of Normans and Anglo-Saxons in England from 1066-1400.

#481 Odyssey

” I don’t know why it’s hard for Poles to accept that Proto-Slavic originated in VinÄ�a and that the first settlers in modern Poland came from the Danube.”

Theory, that ancestors of Poles came from VinÄ�a is very tempting and flattering … but no… only Truth is important.

As far as I read your comments you didn’t prove that people of VinÄ�a created language which later has been described as Slavic or sanscrit language.
You have used linguistic method to prove this.
Ok.

I give you an example how misleading your linguistic method is.

The oldest town in Poland is Calisia (Polish: Kalisz*).
It’s 1,800 years old (it’s mentioned by Ptolemy in 2nd century AD).

Kalisz/Calisia has a city district named Serbinów**.
According to your linguistic “logic”, Kalisz/Calisia is 1,800 years old city and has a place with “Serb” prefix therefore conclusion is that Serbs created this city 1,800 years ago.
In fact, this city district was created in XX century and have nothing to do with Serbs from Serbia.

Probably similar explanations can be applied to other villages, cities in Poland with names starting with “Serb-“,“Sorb-“… prefixes.
For example, in XVI century there was Serbian imigration to Poland (due to Turkish invasion of Helm (eng. Balkans) ). Probably, that’s why many villages in Poland have Serb/Sorb- prefixes in their names.

So, your linguistic “logic” is weak.
You need stronger method to prove that Vinca culture had dominant (great) role in Central Europe.

“R1b (Yamnaya) came to Europe in 2800BC (British Isles – 2500BC) and R1a was already in Poland by 8000BC even though there was only ice there???

Many years ago I read wonderful article which explained last 10,000 years in Central Europe (southern Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, eastern Germany).
I can’t find it now so I will use my memory (gosh!) to explain main thesis of this article. Dates, places are of course approximated.

1. Initially, (10,000 BC) R1a people were scattered hunters living in Central Europe.
They hunt for animals which periodically migrated along glacier’s forehead (which ranged from British Isles to Poland).
2. In meantime (8,000 BC) Vinca culture arose.
3. R1a people where still not very numerous at that time (7-6,000 BC).
4. Anyway, in meantime R1a people domesticated animals (why prey on migrating animals if you can move them into stockyard for future usage?).
The R1a people became mixed hunter-gatherer/herdman societies.
5. In meantime glacier melt down.
6. Change of climate made Central Europe good place for agriculture.
7. Vinca-people (who had technology but not land and animals) and R1a-people (who had land and domesticated animals but not technology) made deal and started new civilisation.

Which language spoke R1a-people and Vinca-people in 8-7,000 BC (or later)?
I have no idea. I suppose that language was forged later.

“The oldest cheese in the world is from Vinca (I think about 7000BC)”

The oldest cheese in Europe is from Poland, 5,500 BC, region Kuyavia (200 km west from Warsaw).

“(…) there was not term ‘Slavs‘ before the 7th cBC and especially not in 8000BC. “

I explain again, that I use word Slavs because it is well known word in contrary to Vinca people/”Vincanians”(?) (which are probably more apropriate word if we talk about 8-3,000 BC in Southern Europe, the problem is that nobody will understand who the hell Vincanians are?).

I think we need to invent new “Slova” (words) to describe more correctly past.

—
* Kalisz
“Calisia had been mentioned by Ptolemy in the 2nd century AD, although the connection is doubted by some historians who claim that the location mentioned by Ptolemy was situated in the territory of the Diduni in Magna Germania. “
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalisz

** “Serbinów (Kalisz)” (in Polish language- sorry, I didn’t find English translation)
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbin%C3%B3w_(Kalisz)

Rural Serbia with a population of three million, exhausted, with heavy casualties and a totally destroyed economy after two years of Balkan wars, decided as its highest priority to attack 100 million highly industrialized Austro-Germans

Rural Vietnam emerging after two decades of war against the French and Americans that killed millions of their people was still able to defeat massive China in a border war and occupy Cambodia. Are you trying to say that the Serbs are worse and less capable than the Viets?

This is not the same Big Mike from before. Or did someone steal his identity or did world fame go to his head after discovering the true meaning of the word kike? That Mike would certainly not say such nonsense as:

Serbia wrecked the German equivalent of the BRI, the Berlin to Baghdad railway, by launching WWI. In order to do this, Serbs previously removed the Austrophile Obrenovic dynasty in a bloody 1903 coup…

Rural Serbia with a population of three million, exhausted, with heavy casualties and a totally destroyed economy after two years of Balkan wars, decided as its highest priority to attack 100 million highly industrialized Austro-Germans in order to interrupt the development of Germany, preventing the construction of the Berlin-Baghdad railway, and even liquidated its own royal dynasty for this reason, is something that not even a single Panzer has ever uttered, and we have already heard truly fantastic stories.

Creation of language, rites, religion needs time and population.

Exactly. I don’t know why it’s hard for Poles to accept that Proto-Slavic originated in VinÄ�a and that the first settlers in modern Poland came from the Danube. VinÄ�a is the highest stage of a civilization that began on the Danube about 12000-10000BC (Lepenski vir), continued with StarÄ�evo and then VinÄ�a.

That civilization lasted at least 7-8000 years (before R1b nomads came to Europe) and then language, mythology and civilization were created. Migrations from Vin�a in all directions began after the First Industrial Revolution, 5000BC. Only about 4500 years have passed since the arrival of the Yamnaya nomads in Europe.

R1b (Yamnaya) came to Europe in 2800BC (British Isles – 2500BC) and R1a was already in Poland by 8000BC even though there was only ice there???

Vinca people had agriculture but not animals.

The oldest cheese in the world is from Vinca (I think about 7000BC). Let me repeat, there was not term ‘Slavs‘ before the 7th cBC and especially not in 8000BC.

#470 Odyssey

“The question you can try to answer is – where did that language originate (directly from the proto-language) and where did the mythology that spread throughout the Slavic world and was also taken to India as Vedic originate.”

Origin of Slavic language is an open question for me but I prefer (today, in 2025 year) moderate theory that Slavic language appeared in c.a. 4-3,000 BC in Central Europe.

Why?
Because of pragmatic reasons.

Creation of language, rites, religion needs time and population.

All these factors appeared (as far as I know) in 4-3,000 BC in Central Europe (Bronocice, Zyndram’s hill fortress and Tollence’s battle from my #469 comment were merely examples).

So, initially (8,000 BC) we have Vinca culture in south and R1a hunter-gatherers and herdsmen in north.
Then we have a few thousands years (7-4,000 BC) of Vinca-R1a interactions: Vinca people had agriculture but not animals. R1a people had animals but no agriculture.
Fusion of these two cultures allowed to enlarge population.
If people have enough food they have more free time.
If they have more free time they can spend it for something else. Like developing religion or language.

But their writing seems suspiciously similar to Egyptians, so I can believe they’re an offshoot of the Egyptians.

Many British colonials believed that Egypt was an off shoot of India.

To claim this savage and barbaric people were the originators of civilization along the fertile crescent must come from a very imaginative mind

Not really. Civilizations started around river valleys like the Indus, Euphrates or Nile because before the Industrial revolution, it was agricultural excess which gave the fuel for wealth and more civilization. For example if you would have had transfered ancient Egyptians to Germany, they would have failed because the agricultural technology of that period would have made having such agricultural excesses impossible. Another point is you had high IQ populations in the North like the Scythians, Mongols, Manchus, Kushans etc…who could not create civilization having a more pastoral system but when they would conquer more older agricultural advanced civilizations, would end up becoming the aristocratic elites. You could say that is what happened with the Mughals in India or Manchus of China.
As far as Northern Europe advancing later, these advancements happened because of development of agriculture about 1000 AD. After which Europe boomed. And Rome for example was a much later civilization than say Egypt, for a long time while the Egyptians were civilized, the ancestors of Romans were barbarians. But when Rome conquered Egypt during Augustus Caesar, Rome was a more advanced society than Egypt. Also worth remembering that the Scythians of Central Asia were blond/ red haired and light eyed, so you do not have had to go that north to get those traits in the past. Also, we have had blue eyed people migrating to today’s Isreal during the Chalcolithic period. Those traits were far more common in the South in the ancient past.

If white skin, light colored hair and eyes are due to less exposure to sun then Aryans originated north of the equator and the further north one goes the lighter skinned are the people and more barbaric are its civilizations. If not for Rome the Aryans of Europe would have remained barbaric.
To claim this savage and barbaric people were the originators of civilization along the fertile crescent must come from a very imaginative mind

US has managed to suck out a large number of Brahmins, because of the way its immigration system works. The only way to immigrate to US, if you have no family in the US already, was through university. Universities picked students, and once you got in through the University Visa, you could transition to other visas fairly easily. Of course Universities picked top students, and top students were almost always Brahmins. IIT’s are still > 50% Brahmins.

This has all changed with the Mass Migration US started encouraging in early 2000’s, that has reached a fever pitch right now from India. People in India complain about brain drain, but at this point it’s not even brain drain. India might be better off losing these people. Now by far the most common way to come to US is through “consultancies� outsourcing body shops, which are the largest tech companies in India. They hire software engineers for cheap, (though high salary by Indian standards), and then contract them out to legacy companies in US who just want software built for cheap. These companies have 10x the number of employees in India, and they dangle the opportunity of moving to US to these employees and thus get away with paying low salaries to these employees in India too. No tier 1 college graduate joins these companies in India, and these company employees have a decent chance of ending up in US. I doubt any of them are Brahmins.
Of course add to this, that US Universities are still doing their thing, but now it’s at a mass scale where you hear complete undergraduate classes are brought in at once to large US universities for masters and what you’re seeing is mass middle class migration from India to US. I’m not sure this benefits US apart from keeping software development cost cheap, which you could have done by just outsourcing to India anyway, I’m not even sure this harms India. The Brahmin migrations from 1960 certainly could be said to harm India, but thankfully it was not much and most of them are too proud that a non trivial percent end up returning late in their life anyway (In typical Brahmin fashion they write books expounding the greatness of past Hindu Culture, something that was going on even in 1100AD). The modern middle class migration is probably not even bad, because even though US seems intent on importing millions of middle class Indians, we have more than a 100 million of them to support and their numbers will only increase as Indian GDP increases.

Tamil Brahmins as CEO’s (Google, Microsoft, Adobe, Ex Starbucks etc), top professorships in MIT, Stanford, etc (10+ to count), 2 chess world champions, Nobel Prizes, Fields Medal, Turing Award etc.

The funny thing is that all these Indian immigrants, other than Sikhs, are Brahmins, or claim to be Brahmins. I didn’t know that the Western immigration departments practiced discrimination in favour of Brahmins. Now knowing that Indians are great liars and swindlers, and would do anything to promote themselves, I very much doubt that these immigrants are all Brahmins.

I knew this Indian immigrant family who were Buddhist Brahmins, or so they claimed! They sure were Buddhist by faith and possibly had some origins in the Brahmin caste, but once you are a Buddhist, Christian or Muslim that should automatically eradicate your caste identity as there are no castes in these religions. But obviously Indians, being self-promoting Indians, just can’t help themselves pushing the idea that they are Brahmins.

I did know one Indian in the West with a Ph.D. who was unashamedly untouchable and got grief from all these immigrant Brahmins, real or fake as the case may be, who were up in arms that an untouchable should have a Ph. D. This guy absolutely hated the immigrant Indians. He had no desire to stay in the West and was hoping to go back to India.

Vanakkam

All I know is that in India, the further south you go, the gentle, genteel and gracious the people are.

As you can tell, I don’t like northerners much.

I am not sure that you are right about Britain’s involvement in the May 1903 coup. From Wikipedia:

Great Britain and the Netherlands withdrew their ambassadors from Serbia, thus freezing diplomatic relations, and imposed sanctions, which were not abolished until 1905. British prime minister Arthur Balfour publicly condemned the assassinations, saying that British ambassador Sir George Bonham was only accredited in front of King Alexander, and thus with the king’s death, relations between Britain and Serbia were terminated. Bonham left Serbia on 21 June. The British government demanded that Belgrade punish the regicides as a sign of diplomacy.

Germany was looking for living space in Eastern Europe, not the Balkans. All it wanted was the Berlin – Baghdad railway to run through that region which could have been of economic benefit to the people.

I don’t see Serbs better or worse than most others people. Everyone has their own idiosyncrasies, for better or worse. Hopefully Serbs will be able to navigate the coming Trump-Putin-Xi world order to their benefit, but I doubt the student movement will free Serbia.

I’m a Tamil Brahmin and while the Aryan Invasion Theory is probably true, it muddies the waters for white supremacists. So Tamil Brahmins do tend to have higher European admixture than the rest. But this higher is still less than 10% European. They, like all Indians are majority Ancestral South Indian Ancestry, followed by Onge Ancestry (tribes of an isolated island called Andaman Nicobar Islands which is now a part of modern India), followed by South West Asian or European Admixture, each ranging from 0-15%.

Now the White Supremacist claim is that this at max 15% European ancestry, is enough to explain the outsized success of Tamil Brahmins as CEO’s (Google, Microsoft, Adobe, Ex Starbucks etc), top professorships in MIT, Stanford, etc (10+ to count), 2 chess world champions, Nobel Prizes, Fields Medal, Turing Award etc. Somehow this 15% makes them far more capable than the average European. At a per capita level, their success rivals that of Ashlenazim, alas if they were a part of the European Civilization in the 20th century, they might have given Jews a run for their money, but they were busy writing Revolutionary Screeds for Indian Independence (which was mostly orchestrated by the Brahmins).

Of course this is bunk. The only logical explanation is that the South Asian Ancestry also contributes. The South Asian Ancestry is of course the Harappan Civilization influence, one of the oldest known civilizations to humanity, whose writing system is more similar to Egyptian Pyramid Hieroglyphics compared to Indo European Civilizations. In fact the more I look into this, the more obvious it becomes to me.

There was the greatest civilization known to earth, the Egyptians, who built the pyramids with ancient technologies we still don’t know. They built such massive monuments, that they were not surpassed until the 1800s. If we want to rank races, these people obviously were the superior race to all of humanity. Slowly this civilization started falling into decline, like all civilizations fall into decline similar to modern European Civilization. This is why later pyramids were much more clumsy than older pyramids. An off shoot of these people travelled east-ward and decided to settle on the fertile Saraswathi River and create the Indus Valley Civilization. This was also a far advanced civilization for its time, but it was probably an outcast of the Egyptian civilization. The unwanted, like Australia was to UK. So what they built was nothing compared to the pyramids but still far beyond what Europeans etc ever achieved at that time. And their small civilization also fell into decline. Maybe because Saraswathi dried up, or Plague, we don’t know. But their writing seems suspiciously similar to Egyptians, so I can believe they’re an offshoot of the Egyptians. As their civilization broke down, small pockets them became hunter gatherers and moved south and lived primitive lives. And then the Aryans came in, waged a war against them, and mixed with them which probably increased the barbaric Aryans IQ if anything. And then the regular history of India took its course.

Hi Mike, thanks for your note. I know that you mean well, but there are a lot of misconceptions in your writings.

At the turn of the 20th century Germany was in a situation akin to China today. It was a rapidly developing advanced industrial nation and other powers wanted to curb its rapid growth.

I do not share your opinion. China has never planned to Expand Outwards (TM) for some Living Space (TM) like what that infamous tiny-mustache Austrian tried to achieve. China is being targeted as they got too successful, their central bank is not controlled/owned by foreigners, etc. See my comment # 12 under another article: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-racial-roots-of-chinas-rise/?showcomments#comment-6845037

Serbia wrecked the German equivalent of the BRI, the Berlin to Baghdad railway, by launching WWI.

Kingdom of Serbia did not start WW1. Austro-Hungarian Empire (AHE) did. Assassination was a false flag organized to give a pretext for the war. Sound familiar? For many details, please see my comment # 19 under another article: https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/a-week-from-hell/?showcomments#comment-6873517

In order to do this, Serbs previously removed the Austrophile Obrenovic dynasty in a bloody 1903 coup and installed the Karadjordjevic dynasty that was willing to collude with Germany’s enemies.

That’s another misconception. Coup in Kingdom of Serbia was organized by the British and traitors from the inside. The purpose was to prevent KoS from coming back to the European scene as one powerful Kingdom. Prior to that, British organized assassination of Knez Mihajlo in 1868, as he was planning to build huge kingdom in the Balkans with Bulgarians. Obrenovic Dynasty was Orthodox Christian, while Karadjordjevic was Free Mason / Satanic and essentially British agents. Russia was most likely involved in the 1903 coup, as Russian agent, Nikola Pasic, organized at least one failed assassination of King Milan Obrenovic of Serbia.

Serbia was occupied in 1903 and remains occupied to this day.

Be as it may, I would expect Serbs to be Germanophobes because of the war crimes committed by Germany against the Serbs, yet Germany and Austria are favourite destinations for Serbs to emigrate to.

Serbs are not vengeful at all and are one of the most civilized people in the world. Remember that Serbs have been living with and are surrounded by their mass murderers: Croats, Bosnian Muslims, Hungarians, Albanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, etc. Serbs never took revenge against people that literally killed millions of Serbs – close to 2 million just in the WW2 in the Vatican Holocaust according to German estimates. See my comment # 117 under another article: https://www.unz.com/article/a-new-challenge-for-teflon-mark/?showcomments#comment-6808642 and comment # 93 under another article: https://www.unz.com/article/srebrenica-and-the-power-of-negative-thinking/?showcomments#comment-6616782

I believe that after English, German is the most popular foreign language in Serbia’s education system.

That was only in Croatia and Slovenia due to both being WW2 partners of Nazi Germany. In Serbia, after English (due to representing capitalism and freedom – or so they thought before 90s), Russian was the second (due to representing Orthodox). Plus, German was thrown out of Serbia’s system in the 60s due to some diplomatic feud. They brought it back later on though.

After that, USA is the most favoured destination. Then Australia and Canada, I guess. Switzerland too. Few Serbs actually emigrate to Russia and all respect to them.

Serbs go to EU as it’s very close and one can visit family over the weekend with two short flights. That’s the main reason. Serbs see all of them as enemies (NATO), so it does not matter much, thus economic and distance factors are the primary ones. Canada had generous visa program in the 90s as Canadian Ambassador to Serbia (James Bisset) liked Serbian people very much. For 2 short videos with his comments on to the events in the 90s, see my comment # 28 under another article: https://www.unz.com/aanglin/putin-announces-mass-production-of-nifty-new-missiles-says-hes-already-got-a-stockpile-lined-up/?showcomments#comment-6874515

But all this anti-Western sentiment among the Serbs is a myth. Sure there are some loud haters of the West there but I don’t think they’re representative of the population. After all, Serbs want to get into the EU even if the EU doesn’t want them, and if they can’t get into it wholesale they just emigrate to it individually.

No, this is misconception too. Serbs do not want to join either EU or NATO or NWO or WHO, etc. That is why Serbia was attacked in the 90s and occupied in 2000. Western puppets at the helm of Serbia “want” that as ordered by them. See my response to you in comment # 18 under another article: https://www.unz.com/aanglin/color-revolution-in-serbia-results-in-high-level-resignations/?showcomments#comment-6968628

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But fear not, as Serbs will free Serbia eventually from the Western yoke in an uprising, when the time comes. Stay tuned!

Thanks for your interest, Mike!

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750+ Anon001 Comments Archive @ The Unz Review | TUR
https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=anon001
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There is nothing contradictory in what I wrote and what you wrote. After the First Industrial Revolution in Vin�a (5000BC) people moved in all directions, including Poland. They already had a high civilization, metal smelting, agriculture, house building, crafts, gold processing and much more.

At the time of the Aryans (2000BC) there was probably a high organization in present-day Poland. It is true that Proto-Slavic was one language from which, with the departure of the Aryans, a branch separated that the mainstream called Indo-Iranian. You can call that language whatever you want, I call it by the name how people addressed each other – cousin, relative (i.e. serb). Even today, people in Serbia greet each other (especially if they haven’t seen each other for a long time or if they don’t know each other) with – How are you (where are you) cousin, what are you doing?, even though they are not relatives.

The question you can try to answer is – where did that language originate (directly from the proto-language) and where did the mythology that spread throughout the Slavic world and was also taken to India as Vedic originate. I don’t need to say that Greek and Latin are much younger languages ​​that have taken over a lot from Serbian.

#373 #427 Odyssey

“proto-Polish language”

I don’t think that there was something like proto-Polish language.

I suppose, that there was one language between 3,000 BC and 500 AD common to all modern Slavs – Czechs, Poles, Russians, Serbs, Slovaks, Slovenians, Ukrainians etc.
Even in c.a. 1000 AD chronicler (I don’t remember who) noticed that Poles and Czechs spoke the same languages.
Modern Slavic languages are still quite understandable to each Slav.
If not loan-words from Greek and Latin and different alphabets (Latin and Cyrillic) then Slavs should understand each other relatively easily.

#427 Odyssey
”
1. The language spoken in Poland/Belarus (around 2000BC) (…)
5.The language from which the two mentioned branches of the language originated could not have originated in Poland/Belarus because at the time of its origin (Ice Age) there was ice and the area was uninhabited.”

Not quite.

3000 BC – Bronocice (southern Poland) – first vehicle which allowed transport big amount of goods for long distance
1750 BC – Zyndram hill’s fortress (southern Poland)
1250 BC – battle of Tollense (150 km north of Berlin)

I put this examples here in order to show that Central Europe of 3,000-1,000 BC was a place where existed well organized society (societies).

In context of Aryans (whatever that means) it leads us to the following conculsions.

To make expantion you need: a lot of people, technology and solid culture (i.e. religion, social structure).

All that existed in Central Europe of 3,000-1,000 BC.

So, it’s not surprising that R1a people (“Aryains”) from Central Europe moved east (Ural, Bharat (eng. India) ) and south.

———-
* “Bronocice pot”
“The image on the pot is one of the oldest well-dated representations of a four-wheeled vehicle in the world.[1][5] It suggests the existence of wagons in Central Europe as early as in the late 4th millennium BC. “
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronocice_pot

* “Zyndram’s Hill” (Maszkowice fortress)
” It was a prehistoric defensive settlement occupied in the Early Bronze Age (1750-1550 BC), in the Late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age (950-400 BC) and in the La Tène Period (200-50 BC). “
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyndram%27s_Hill

* battle of Tollense
“Thousands of bone fragments belonging to many people have been discovered along with further corroborative evidence of battle; current estimates indicate that perhaps 4,000 warriors from Central Europe fought in a battle on the site in the 13th century BC”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollense_valley_battlefield

At the turn of the 20th century Germany was in a situation akin to China today. It was a rapidly developing advanced industrial nation and other powers wanted to curb its rapid growth. Serbia wrecked the German equivalent of the BRI, the Berlin to Baghdad railway, by launching WWI. In order to do this, Serbs previously removed the Austrophile Obrenovic dynasty in a bloody 1903 coup and installed the Karadjordjevic dynasty that was willing to collude with Germany’s enemies.

Be as it may, I would expect Serbs to be Germanophobes because of the war crimes committed by Germany against the Serbs, yet Germany and Austria are favourite destinations for Serbs to emigrate to. Germany has the largest Serbian diaspora and many not already there would also like to emigrate to it. I believe that after English, German is the most popular foreign language in Serbia’s education system.

After that, USA is the most favoured destination. Then Australia and Canada, I guess. Switzerland too. Few Serbs actually emigrate to Russia and all respect to them.

But all this anti-Western sentiment among the Serbs is a myth. Sure there are some loud haters of the West there but I don’t think they’re representative of the population. After all, Serbs want to get into the EU even if the EU doesn’t want them, and if they can’t get into it wholesale they just emigrate to it individually.

Was this man an “Aryan?� Or, a Slav with no asiatic admixture?

Where did you get that? [Serbs are descendants of Noah’s son Japheth.] I guess you are an atheist, and do not know Biblical timeline?

Noah = the tenth in descent from Adam. Although, Ham is also a descendant of Noah…whatever that all means.

No, I am not an atheist, however it seems to me that quite a bit of information/context is missing from the Bible (certainly the OT), and how many Srbs were present at the council(s) of Nicaea, particularly the one wherein the books of the Bible were selected, and who decided to insert the Torah into the Gentile’s Bible and insist that Jesus was a Jew? (I’m not implying Srbs were responsible…)

Rurik was not German.

I wasn’t suggesting he was; I thought he was Nordic. In any event, I have observed that the Srbs of this thread (and on others) seem to defend ethnic Russians (Rus) as Slavs (Srb descendants?) extraordinaire, yet it does seem there was quite a bit of genetic overlap amongst Nordics/Germanics/Slavs of “upper� Europe; Slavs fought against other Slavic groups with the Danes; Danes fought against former Slavic allies; Niklot was one of those Germanized Slavs, yes? So, do we blame Germans for what Niklot did?

Then there’s this NONSENSE from Odysseus – “Before the arrival of the R1b in Europe, there were no wars…â€� Well, tell that to Otzi, The Iceman. The Srbian Aryans spread themselves around the world with nary a conflict during the spreading? Is that what the Vedas indicate? Sunshine and daisies…until the “Germansâ€� arrived?

Germans are not a race, but rather a mixture or multiple ethnicities.

Which ethnicities? Same for the Irish? The English?

Trotsky, 1930 –

Slavophilism, the messianism of backwardness, has based its philosophy upon the assumption that the Russian people and their church are democratic through and through, whereas official Russia is a German bureaucracy imposed upon them by Peter the Great. Mark remarked upon this theme: “In the same way the Teutonic jackasses blamed the despotism of Frederick the Second upon the French, as though backward slaves were not always in need of civilised slaves to train them.” This brief comment completely finishes off not only the old philosophy of the Slavophiles, but also the latest revelations of the “Racists.”

Now, I know Bronstein was no Slav, nor Russian, but he was Lenin’s boy. On that note, was Stalin an Aryan? It seems to me a German contemporary of those Asiatic-looking Russian/Ukrainian goons was much more reasonable about trying to determine what monstrosity was afflicting the nations of Europe, including Russia, and had the ethnic Russians and Poles sided with Germany, a Germanized Europe would be paradise compared to what we have today.

I don’t know enough about Serbian history to argue against what you generally say; I don’t doubt there were attempts by “Christians� to remove/obscure “Pagan� history from Europe, but Germanics and Nordics were once Pagans too. And, where are the translations of the Vincan scripts?

DNA aside, it’s usually simple enough to identify people just by looking, and not just at the appearance of the people, but at the societies they build and maintain. So, based on descriptions of Aryans of yore, we can definitely see remnants of same in Germany and amongst Germans.

Thanks for the information; I’ll be looking into it.

#453 notanonymousHere

Shoulda fucking nuked Serbia when we had the chance.

I hope someone will do this to your artificial nation someday.

No, I am not Srb.

You really have patience but I think the end result will be very meager. You simply can’t make any progress with the Panzers. The dozens of comments I posted about the arrival of the Germans to the territory of present-day Germany only at the time of Charlemagne were in vain.

It’s funny that the Panzers think that they were Yamnaya (aka Indo-Germans, i.e Indo-Europeans, lol) nomads who came 4500 years ago when in fact it was much later. Of course they don’t know when their ancestors came to Europe or what the word German means but they are ashamed to ask politely.

They also realize that their Asian origin is something that is offensive even though I’m only talking about geography and not about slanted eyes. I didn’t mention the Mongols and Huns in their context (although I could have). So they invent nonsense (like Adam and Eve as Serbs, etc.) and then argue with themselves, and the result is that the Serbs are stupid and the Panzers are smart. Lol.

The list of examples of German forgeries that you cited over hundreds of years only shows that intellectual discussion with them is impossible, where the thesis about the alleged German preemptive attack on the Soviet Union in 1941 is just one example.

Here are some of the points you wondered/asked about.

See my comment # 462 first for the historical/political context.

He denies heavy Turkic/asiatic genetic admixture in current Slavic populations in Eastern Europe/Balkans …

DNA testing has debunked that lie completely, i.e. Turks allegedly impregnating local women, as well as Prima Nocta that actually existed only in the West. There are literally zero Turkish genes among the Serbs. That was simply yet another Vatican/Austrian/German lie to denigrate Serbian people.

Actually, due to Blood Levy [1], in place for over 200 years, situation is quite the opposite, i.e. there are literally millions of Turks with Serbian genes, with many of them even fully aware of their ancestral genetic roots. There were even sultans and other rulers in the OE that that were genetic Serbs, and many of them knew it as well.

The length these liars were and still willing to go in denigrating Orthodox Christian Serbs, is shown in this one example out of many: In 1909, Austro-Hungarian Empire even commissioned making of twelve p?rn?gr?ph?c drawings to propagate that exact lie widely [2]. That just shows how sick and pathetic these people are, as they would stop at nothing while targeting Serbia/Serbs. No wonder they ended up being some of the biggest historical losers.

[1] Devshirme – Child Levy – Blood Tax – Blood Levy | Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devshirme

[2] Google Translate: The sick imagination of the Viennese gentlemen:
https://srbski-weebly-com.translate.goog/istorija-i-srbstvo/bolesna-masta-becke-gospode?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en-US&_x_tr_hl=en-US

… apparently, spent centuries re-writing that history, albeit doing so before we could even write…

16th, 17th, 18th and even the 19th century were the periods of German/Vatican/Austrian making forgeries and rewriting history, as there was no one to oppose them, especially starting in the 17th century. Serbia was under OE, while Russia was under German control after assassination and replacement of Peter the Great in 1698 during his Great Embassy through Europe. As the story goes, him, his servants, and all nobility that accompanied him on that trip were murdered, and a fake 3rd-grade German nobleman was sent back as replacement. Shortly after the swap and impostors’ return, Peter’s son was murdered and his wife was forcibly exiled to some monastery. Probably because they both asked, “Where is Peter, and who are you?”

Most of the lies were from Germans, who wanted to academically “justify” their conquest (i.e. land grab) of Europe as they missed the opportunity to capture colonies around the world. WWII was supposed to be the final act achieving that goal.

The first thing on their list was to eliminate any info about the indigenous people or Europe – the Serbs. I.e. Germans could not concoct a lie big enough to make themselves described as indigenous people of Europe, so they tried to make no one else either, with added Indo-German / Indo-European lies on top of that. So they invented the story of Serbs coming to the Balkans (i.e. Helm Peninsula) in the 7th century, and a whole slew of other lies including fake maps, etc. Their historical school actually recanted that 7th century “migration” story in the 1980s – admitting that they lied. However, that’s just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

History to Germans is just a political tool and it remains one to this day. Majority of their “elites” are pathological liars that spent centuries adjusting history to fit their strategic and political goals with close to no remorse.

Just to name some: In 1808, German geographer replaced Peninsula’s name “Helm” (Serbian) with “Balkan” (Turkish) to hide Serbian origins and roots there. Another example: in 1881, Austro-Hungarian Empire actually threatened war if Serbs did not remove the Orthodox calendar from use and switched to the European one. The one that was in use through the entire history of the Serbian people – in which e.g. year 2024 is year 7532. E.g. Kosovo Battle was in the year 6897 (year 1389). All Serbian documents up to that point used this original and ancient calendar including Serbian Orthodox Church.

Also, term/name “Byzantium” is yet another invention of the Vatican/German liars. The true name was East Roman Empire, which Vatican did not like, so German “historianâ€� Hieronymus Wolf invented name ‘Byzantium’ in 1557 AD, as their propaganda replacement name for the original name.

… whilst claiming modern Germans are essentially Asians.

No, he’s not claiming that all Germans are Asians, but rather only the portion that has no Slavic roots. Germans are not a race, but rather a mixture or multiple ethnicities.

So, was Prince Rurik a Srb?

Rurik was not German.

Silver Codex is a forgery.

Also, Goths, Getae were not Germans.

BTW, Goths = Getae

Wasn’t the Cyrillic alphabet created in the 9th century by two “Greek� priests who were trying to tame the Slavs?

No, that was another lie concocted by the Vatican and the Greeks. Allegedly, Serbs spent centuries being completely illiterate, being unable to do anything about it, and had to wait for some Greeks to show up and show them the way.

There are archeological findings (rings, etc.) with Serbian alphabet inscriptions dated way before the alleged “creation” of the alphabet.

Serbian alphabet was renamed ‘Cyrillic’ in the 16th century.

So, the Srbs were the chosen people or the Adam?

Where did you get that?

I guess you are an atheist, and do not know Biblical timeline?

Serbs are descendants of Noah’s son Japheth.

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Hope this helps. Thanks for your interest.

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What kind of history did you study in German school?


I attended school in America.

I’m well aware that various ethnic groups inhabited the Baltic area; that was the point of my question. The original question was whether or not Rurik was a Srb/Slav? As far as I know, he was not. I’m just trying to determine who was Aryan, and who was not.

Because of their intelligence, Poles decided to invite the Germans to help them

I am aware of this fact also. And, it wasn’t just the Poles, but the Russians, as well. I think the Ostsiedlung covered a rather large swathe of Eastern European territory.

In any event, in response to your inquiry, I was referring to the Germans in my familial line, not the Germans as a People.

The Prussians were eventually exterminated.

Indeed they were. By which sect of Russians?

It is believed that a significant part of the population of East Germany are Germanized Slavs.


I don’t doubt this; I don’t doubt there are many Germans with Slavic ancestry. Considering the entire history, I have suggested that, prior to the genetic admixture from Asia/Mongols/Turks in Eastern European groups, our Nordic/Germanic/Slavic ancestors were more similar than not.

For me, DNA genealogy is attractive because it provides very convincing facts, breaks the European-centric interpretation of history imposed on all of us.


So, what does DNA testing reveal about the genetic ancestry of modern Serbians? (That’s the basic bone of contention between Odysseus and myself; of course, he claims I am some sort of Mongolian Hun – my father had a red beard; I have grey-eyed children, for God’s sake – how asiatic can I possibly be?) How much Turkic/Mongolian admixture in Serbia? How much within the Russian population? Why the visceral hatred for Germans over what happened to the Vincans?

What’s wrong with Eurocentric history? Are you not an ethnic European? Have you not noticed that European history has been subverted to the detriment of us all?

And DNA genealogy gives an amazing texture.

I agree, and the cover-ups continue apace; it’s complex subject matter, and it’s rather easy to confound. Cheddar Man was dark-skinned and Negroes have always been in Great Britain. Negroes built the Giza Pyramids too, and some rogue (White) museum curator used a blue marker to color in the eyes on those Egyptian busts…

First, as for the context for anything claimed by Germany/Germans, you should remember, that there seems to be a permanent pathological hatred of the German “elites” towards the Serbs, as the establishment blames the Serbs for Germany’s loss in both WW1 and WW2, which is correct! So they consistently do evil, lie and try to harm Serbia/Serbs in every way possible.

This tendency became obvious after Germany was allowed to unite, not because it subsided over the decades prior to that, but rather because Germany had to be careful and patient in order to not ruin its chances for unification. So hiding its real ugly bitter-loser face was the strategy at the time.

So, having said that …

Any thoughts on who constructed Gobekli Tepe?

We do NOT know, but we do know who invested a lot of money into trying to find anything around the world that could be claimed, with no prof, to be older than truly the oldest archeological spot in the World, which is Vin�a, Serbia [1]! Of course, it was Germany!

As I mentioned, German “elites” hate the Serbs with passion, and try to undermine, hide, and lie about anything Serbian! German academic “elites”, do know that the Serbs are the oldest living nation, but chose to lie and hide that fact. As one German archeologist working in Serbia, excavating ancient artifacts at some location some years back, said to his Serbian colleague: “We [Germans] know that this is all Serbian, but choose not to talk about it!”

Another example of that evil of the German “elites” towards the Serbs even to this day: Recent report on IQ in Europe, showed the Serbs as ones with the lowest IQ! So, allegedly, the nation that lit the World through Serbian-American genius Nikola Tesla, and many, many other scientists, engineers, inventors, as well as having the best athletes in the history of the world, is neither very smart nor very talented! Guess who compiled that report? One German of course!

There are endless examples like these, and that’s the pathology, primitivism, and general evil of the German “elites” towards the Serbs!

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In closing, knowing about this pathological hatred towards the Serbs and anything Serbian, be careful as you research sources in Germany, Vatican, and Austria (HE/AHE), as they are loaded with lies and forgeries. E.g. Silver Codex is a forgery. Monumenta Germaniae Historica is full of fiction and lies. Of course, let’s not forget Pseudo-Porphyrogennetos.

FYI, If you’d believe it, Serbian uprising ended Roman Empire. I.e., Serbs freed their territories occupied by the RE. But that’s forbidden history. Hence creation of many forgeries including Pseudo-Porphyrogennetos to hide that, along with the main fake story of some barbarians waiting for decades at the border, for RE to weaken enough, to get in.

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NOTE: Use the Reply button for each person you want to respond to, rather than addressing multiple people in one comment, as that is very hard to find and people will not see in most of the cases.

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[1] VinÄ�a, Serbia – the Cradle of European Civilization
https://serbia.com/visit-serbia/cultural-attractions/archaeological-sites/vinca-the-cradle-of-european-civilization/

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[2] Nikola Tesla, Serbian-American Genius | Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

Nikola Tesla American-Serbian Genius (100-year anniversary postage stamp, 1956)
…

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Klyosov is probably one of the world’s best geneticists and is practically banned by the mainstream, which neither wants, nor can understand his theory, which, unlike theirs, is (at least) logical. Don’t worry about Tulip, who is different from the tulips (except in one case) that I wrote about. I already told her once that she is not ethnic German in either (Bohemian) or (Frisian) line (maybe she can find the original name of Amsterdam), but that cannot be explained to a Yankee-Panzer (it means, compounded dumbasness plus exceptionalism).

There is one small discrepancy in the above quotes where even Klyosov is wrong, since he is not a linguist, although his entire theory and the maps you published correct it. The fact is that there was a terrible genocide against the entire indigenous I2 genetics in Europe (I have an estimate of 88% of men), but many still escaped by fleeing to the Dinaric Mountains, the Carpathians, and some even escaped to Spain.

Before the arrival of the R1b in Europe, there were no wars, so the genocide against the Serbian-speaking indigenous people was the first ever in history, and since then, the descendants of the R1b nomads have started almost all wars and genocides in Europe. Simply put, the descendants of the R1b have genocide in their genes. The Serbs who escaped the genocide founded (unlike VinÄ�a) settlements protected by fences. From these Serbian fences came the Serbian word grad (city) as well as the words – garden, guard, Gvardia, Guardiola, Gardener, etc.

So, there was no Slavic language at that time and the indigenous Serbs did not take over the language of the nomads, but rather the other way around. It is obvious that the Serbian language is older than Russian and all other Slavic languages and that it does not have two layers (the original and the so-called Slavic language). This is also stated by Alinei, who said that the proto-Slavic (i.e. Serbian) language originated in the Balkans (i.e. in Lepenski Vir/Vin�a).

This is also confirmed by your maps where we can see (only) Serbian toponyms that have SRB in them, and the total number is probably hundreds of times greater. So, R1a took over the language of the natives since the civilization and culture there were at least a couple of thousand years older. This is also evidenced by the differences between Slavic and Western European languages, because otherwise the languages R1a and R1b would be very similar due to their affinity. Also, the name Serb, originates from Vinca and was not brought by nomads to the Balkans.

In conclusion, the basis of European genetics is indigenous (Serbian), and also (mainly) Serbian women transmitted the Serbian language, whiteness (white race!) and were the bearers of the Corded Ware culture (pottery).

Take the “rightly� out of it. The techniques used to find the connections would work with any language in existence. The point of finding connections so far away, in a “cool� language is to avoid the connection of English to French and French to Latin. People into these theories love building castles in the sky, for the purposes of avoiding their actual heritage.

I think Mr. Oddysey’s homosexuality shrieks for itself like a lactating hostage. Suck a hobo dick won’t you Mr, Oddity?

Dear Tiptoethrutulips
What kind of history did you study in German school?
I would like to remind you, for example, that a Slavic tribe of Prussians lived in Prussia. They were very violent and greatly annoyed the neighbors, especially the Poles. Because of their intelligence, Poles decided to invite the Germans to help them as they were close to their faith. That’s how Koenigsberg appeared. The Prussians were eventually exterminated. I know this story because I lived in Kaliningrad (formerly Konigsberg) for a couple of years. There were obviously other Slavic tribes with type R1a in the Baltic.
It is believed that a significant part of the population of East Germany are Germanized Slavs.
I don’t want to get into this mess or your arguments here.
For me, DNA genealogy is attractive because it provides very convincing facts, breaks the European-centric interpretation of history imposed on all of us.
Now in Russia, a paradigm shift has begun in our vision and understanding of ourselves in this world.
And DNA genealogy gives an amazing texture.

About Rurik… according to DNA genealogy, was from the Baltic Slavs (!) and definitely not from the Normans.

But, was he a Srb? Only Slavs hail from the Baltics? No Norseman running amuck in the Baltics?

Are the Germans with Russian roots around you not going to return to Russia?

To my knowledge, the Germans around me have no Russian roots; we were Germans in Germany, Bohemia, and Poland.

It should be noted that this is politisied topic, and YouTube can create problems for it.

Considering that the events of mass slaughter of Srbs by R1BPeople occurred thousands of years ago at a time when slaughtering of rivals seemed somewhat routine, why is it so politicized today? Who ultimately benefits from the obscurement of this history?

To Anon001:

1. Serbs are the oldest people from whose genes Aryans, Croats, Danes…originate… 2. Anatoly Alekseevich Klyosov, a professor of biology at Harvard University, claimed in his scientific paper that the Serbian gene is 12,000 years old and originates from Noah’s son.

Thank you for the detailed information; I have some studying to do…Any thoughts on who constructed Gobekli Tepe?

1. In other words, when we go back far enough, Aryan = European = White? So, Europeans, which includes Germanics and Celts, have common ancestry? The “oldest people� are descendants of a former group who “retracted� themselves from the human and human-like populations of earth?

2. And, there we have it – the Biblical characters, including Jesus, were not Jews? (Or, “Israelâ€� was not semetic and the Jewish god was not the creator of the Adam) Is that the purpose for the obscurement of human history? In other words, ethnic European People share a common ancestry/history, and rather than fighting amongst ourselves, we should direct our energies against our common enemies?

So, the Srbs were the chosen people or the Adam? If that’s true, why didn’t Serbia align with the Germans during WW2? Are Srbs, in general, as clueless as the rest of us? Are (most) modern Srbs too far removed from their genetic forbears due to Turkic/asiatic admixture to claim primacy amongst ethnic European people with regard to likeness of “Aryans?�




Do you happen to know why Germans greet each other with “Servus”?

That’s because many people have trouble pronouncing ‘rb’ in ‘Serbus’, so they usually soften it to ‘rv’, so they say “Servus!”, like Germans.

Also, clam that Srb/Serb/Serbus means ‘slave’ is another Vatican lie. The name Serb means a friend, a cousin. That is how people greet each other using that, without even knowing the true meaning, all due to Vatican lies. In other words, they do not call each other a slave, but rather a friend, a cousin.

Similar hard-to-pronounce reasons, as well as misspellings over the centuries caused ‘Srb’/Serb’ to end up as: ‘Sirb’, ‘Sarb’, ‘Sirm’, ‘Serb’, ‘Sorb’, ‘Sard’, ‘Sarm’, already mentioned ‘Serv’, and even ‘Zorb’! Like Limes Sorabicus [1] and Zorba the “Greek” [2], who was BTW expelled (ethnically cleansed) by Greeks from Greece along with other 800,000 Serbs around 1921 and died in Serbia in 1941.

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[1] Limes Sorabicus Map | Wikipedia
—

[2] George Zorbas – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zorbas

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Here’s an article [2] based on the findings of Harvard Professor Anatole Klyosov [1]

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[1] Anatole Klyosov | Professor – Harvard Medical School – Research Profile
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anatole-Klyosov-2

[2] Serbs … | Article based on Anatole Klyosov (Harvard) findings
https://www-in4s-net.translate.goog/sad-srbi-najstariji-narod-iz-cijeg-gena-poticu-arijevci-hrvati-danci/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en-US&_x_tr_hl=en-US

— — — Google translate — — —

Serbs are the oldest people from whose genes Aryans, Croats, Danes… originate

Anatoly Alekseevich Klyosov, a professor of biology at Harvard University, claimed in his scientific paper that the Serbian gene is 12,000 years old and originates from Noah’s son.

If DNA analysis, which leaves traces of every individual on the planet, has revealed that Darwin planted fake bones to support his theory of evolution, then there is no reason to doubt the scientific work of Anatoly Alekseevich Klyosov, a professor of biology at Harvard University, who claims that this analysis has proven that Serbs are the ancestors of today’s Slavs and many other peoples of Europe, whose genes are 12,000 years old!

American Harvard scientist of Russian origin Anatoly Klyosov, who is also the president of the scientific advisory board of the International Genealogical Bureau, says in his scientific work that Russians are in fact descendants of those whose ancestral home was in the Balkans, that is, present-day Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, and Macedonia.

– Serbian genes (R1A1) are 12,000 years old compared to others that are 4-7 thousand years old. All peoples (except two) in Europe have over 40% Serbian or proto-Serbian genes – claims this scientist.

Judging by the Serbian gene map, which was created based on this scientist’s study, this gene is present in over 60 percent of the inhabitants of present-day Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Denmark, the northern part of present-day Germany, as well as the southern part of Scandinavia, but also a good part of Great Britain.

According to these findings, carriers of the R1a1 genetic marker lived in the Balkans some 12,000 years ago. After a little more than two hundred generations, they emerged from there onto the East European Plain, where the ancestor of modern Russians and Ukrainians of the R1a1 lineage appeared 4,500 years ago.

According to Dr. Kljosov’s claims, it can also be concluded that today those who do not even have Serbian origins in their genes are “Serbian”, which can be easily revealed through DNA analysis.

In his scholarly work, Klyosov gives the history of the Russian people from the biblical Japheth, son of Noah, to his own day. At one point, however, the author writes that Japheth’s descendants first settled in the lower reaches of the Danube, in present-day Serbia, and then some of them went north.

Russian historiography has always taken this information seriously, so Russian schools taught that they came “from beyond the Carpathians.� For them, “from beyond the Carpathians� is the part where Serbs live today, who, in the era of love with the Soviets, literally copied this history lesson and transferred it to their textbooks. For Serbs, however, Nestor’s “from beyond the Carpathians� should read “from this side of the Carpathians.� That part has never been understood here.

A Harvard professor and founder of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy says that a high frequency of a gene has been observed in the Dinaric regions of the former Yugoslavia, which, due to its location, has been called “Illyrian� by laypeople. However, experts have given it the rather dry name Y2a2-Dinaric (this is called a haplogroup, abbreviated as hpg).

Doctor of Science Anatoly Alekseevich Klyosov is the chairman of the scientific advisory board of the International Genealogical Bureau and a professor of biology at Harvard University. He is the leading living expert on the haplogroup R1a1, which is typical for all Slavs. This haplogroup is represented to a greater or lesser extent among all Slavic peoples, but to a significant extent also among the highest castes in India.

Based on the existing mutations, which he studied very carefully, Klyosov came to the conclusion that all Slavs originate from the Balkans. And not just anywhere in the Balkans, but from present-day Serbia and Bosnia. The age of our R1a1 specimens is – 12,000 years. So, we have been in this region since then.

The age of R1a1 specimens among the highest Indian castes is much younger – around 3,850 years, which corresponds to the time of the arrival of the Aryans in those areas. Klyosov further concludes that the Aryans were, in fact, Slavs who reached India from the area of ​​Serbia.

Using the latest scientific knowledge in genetics, Professor Kljosov concludes that around 4,800 years ago, the Proto-Europeans from the Danube region split. Those who went east later became Slavs, those who went west became speakers of the so-called Kentum language, a once common Indo-European language.

– “Indo-European languages� – this euphemism once arose due to a lack of understanding of what connects Sanskrit and its variants, on the one hand, and European languages, on the other. Now it has become quite clear. Aryan languages ​​​​are the basis of both European languages, Sanskrit, and “Indo-European� Iranian languages. On the Dnieper, Don and Ural rivers, there were no “peoples who spoke Iranian languages�. Slavs lived there, proto-Slavs, Aryans, and that was their language. They brought their language to India, Iran, Afghanistan – claims the professor.

According to Klyosov’s conclusions, carriers of R1a1 lived in the Balkans some 12,000 years ago. After a little more than two hundred generations, they emerged from there onto the East European Plain, where the ancestor of modern Russians and Ukrainians of the R1a1 lineage appeared 4,500 years ago.

Half a millennium later, these Proto-Slavs reached the southern Urals, and 400 years later they moved to India, where about 100 million of their descendants live today. One group of these Balkan Proto-Slavs headed to the Middle East, where carriers of the hpg R1a1 are also found today. Klyosov dates their genes back 4,000 years.

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Here’s some additional info on Serbian genetics and toponyms [1][2][3][4].

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[1] Comment # 189 under A New Challenge for Teflon Mark, by Hans Vogel – The Unz Review
https://www.unz.com/article/a-new-challenge-for-teflon-mark/?showcomments#comment-6811345

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[2] Oldest Genes Concentration Map – Europe

[3] Serbian toponyms – Asia Minor

[4] Serbian toponyms – Poland

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Video [1] does not require login for me.

Try this link: https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=Pwrq0xn1fu8&t=5

Below is video transcript. Note: It may contain errors as auto-generated.

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[1] Anatole Klyosov: DNA Genealogy of the Serbs – YouTube

Video Link

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Anatole Klyosov: DNA Genealogy of the Serbs

DNA Genealogy of Serbs and Ancient History

(video timestamp 0:15)

First of all, I would like to congratulate you on the anniversary of the 80th year of the liberation of Belgrade. Now, I can move back to my slides.

Today, I am going to talk about the DNA genealogy of Serbs and their ancient history. I will make three key points:

1. To show the structure of modern-day Serbs based on Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA features.

2. To highlight the tragic history of the Serbs (or, more precisely, their ancestors) which occurred in the middle of the third millennium BC.

3. To discuss the historical implications of these ancient events.

(video timestamp 1:18)

This is a haplogroup tree of Serbia and neighboring countries, which I refer to as the former Yugoslavia. Here, we see a very interesting genetic structure. The tree shows different groups, or more specifically, haplotypes.

Let me remind you of the difference between a haplogroup and a haplotype. Think of a passport: the passport cover represents a haplogroup—it is shared among many people and does not provide much individual information. However, the passport number is like a haplotype—it provides a unique identification within that haplogroup.

For instance, in this audience, many people may have the same passport cover, indicating a shared national identity. However, their passport numbers (haplotypes) make them individually distinguishable. A haplogroup is a broad classification, while a haplotype gives specific genetic characteristics of an individual.

(video timestamp 3:00)

Now, looking at the genetic structure of Serbia, we see a particularly tight genetic branch on the left side of the tree—labeled I2a Y3120. You might ask why I use this specific classification instead of simply saying I2a. The reason is that there are two major subgroups of I2a:

• Y3120, which is found mainly in former Yugoslavia, particularly in Serbia, Croatia, and Bosnia.

• Another major kind, which is more prevalent in Central and Western Europe.

This makes it clear that Y3120 is concentrated primarily in Southeastern Europe and does not extend deeply into Central or Western Europe.

(video timestamp 4:04)

The tight clustering of this haplogroup indicates that it is relatively young. When haplogroups are scattered and “bushy,” they are older. However, I2a Y3120 is tightly clustered, meaning it arose only about 2,200 years ago, around the end of the old era and the beginning of the new one. This is quite unusual, and I will explain why.

If we focus specifically on the Serbs, we see the highest percentage belongs to I2a Y3120, accounting for about one-third of all Serbian males. This is followed by:

• R1a (18%), mainly found among descendants of Eastern Slavs.

• M458 (12%), associated with Western Slavs.

• E1b (15%).

• R1b (6%).

• J2a (3%).

• A variety of minor haplogroups (6%) such as I1, J1, J2, N, Q, and L.

(video timestamp 7:47)

Time to the Most Recent Common Ancestor

The left branch of the tree, Y3120, has an ancestral haplotype that existed about 2,250 years ago. This estimation is based on 495 observed mutations across 67 haplotypes, using a mutation rate constant of 0.09 per 37 markers.

The generation length used in calculations is 25 years, which is a commonly accepted value, also recommended by the United Nations for demographic studies. While actual generational spans vary based on environmental, cultural, and religious factors, this standard value allows us to calculate an approximate timeline for when the common ancestor of modern-day Y3120 carriers lived.

(video timestamp 12:05)

Why Is the Common Ancestor So Recent?

When comparing different genetic tribes, we find that the age of the most recent common ancestor varies significantly:

• R1b in Central Europe → 4,800 years ago.

• R1a in Eastern Europe → 4,900 years ago.

• R1a in India → 3,500 years ago.

• Iranic tribes (descendants of the Mitanni) → 4,000 years ago.

• Jews and Arabs (common ancestor of Semitic peoples) → 4,000 years ago.

• Haplogroup O in China → 9,000 years ago.

• Haplogroup Q among Native Americans → 13,000 years ago.

However, the common ancestor of Y3120 in Serbs lived only 2,200 years ago. This suggests that a massive genetic bottleneck occurred, wiping out previous lineages in Europe.

(video timestamp 14:53)

The Great Genetic Bottleneck of Europe

Between 4,800 and 4,000 years ago, almost all pre-existing European Y-DNA haplogroups were nearly wiped out. This coincides with the migration of R1b bearers (Bell Beaker culture) into Central and Western Europe. As a result, many haplogroups (including I, G, J, and E) vanished almost entirely.

Ancestors of the Serbs were among these early European groups who faced near extinction. Haplogroup I first emerged 43,000 years ago, yet there is a massive gap in the genetic record between 43,000 years ago and 2,200 years ago.

Only R1b survived and expanded dramatically, accounting for 60% of modern European males today. Most other lineages, including the ancestors of Serbs, were drastically reduced or completely eradicated.

(video timestamp 22:26)

The Formation of the Serbian Ethnicity

By the time I2a Y3120 began recovering in the Balkans (~2,200 years ago), they were living among R1a carriers, who had migrated from the Russian Plain and spoke Slavic languages. This is why the ancestors of modern Serbs adopted Slavic linguistic and cultural traits.

This same pattern is seen throughout Eastern Europe, where the spread of Slavic languages correlates with the presence of R1a. Even East Germany was once Slavic-speaking, as seen in the many towns with Slavic-origin names.

(video timestamp 31:00)

Mitochondrial DNA of Serbs

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), inherited only from the mother, tells a different story. Unlike Y-DNA (paternal lineage), mtDNA did not experience the same genetic bottleneck. This indicates that male populations were exterminated, but females survived and continued to pass down their mitochondrial lineages.

The most common mtDNA haplogroups in Serbs are:

• H (41%) – The dominant European maternal lineage.

• U5 (9.4%) – Found in ancient hunter-gatherer populations.

• J (6.8%) – Common in European and Near Eastern populations.

• U4 (6.8%) – Another ancient European haplogroup.

This distribution is almost identical across European nations such as Russia, France, Spain, and England. The implication is that while the male lineage of Serbs was nearly wiped out and replaced, the maternal lineage remained largely unchanged.

(video timestamp 42:06)

Conclusion and Historical Implications

1. Serbs are a multi-tribal society with a tragic history. Almost all European male lineages except R1b were decimated in the third millennium BC.

2. A massive genetic bottleneck occurred, reducing the population of I2a Y3120 ancestors in Europe to near extinction.

3. Serbs became Slavic due to interactions with R1a carriers, who migrated from the Russian Plain and spoke Slavic languages.

4. Mitochondrial DNA remained stable, confirming that while men were wiped out, women survived.

The study of Serbian genetics reveals a deep and turbulent past, shaped by war, migration, and survival against overwhelming odds.

Thank you very much.

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750+ Anon001 Comments Archive @ The Unz Review | TUR
https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=anon001
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Note: I believe that unz readers, whether they agree or disagree, enjoy my comments and I am sure that those who are thirsty for knowledge and frustrated by mainstream fakery, can learn a lot from them.

No that’s not the case at all. The problem is you’re a stupid fucking idiot with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder obsessed with a Serbia that never existed and everything you say is a lie. You ask questions then pretend they weren’t answered. No one enjoys it. Shoulda fucking nuked Serbia when we had the chance. Never say never.

Full name of the video on YouTube

Anatole Klyosov: DNA Genealogy of the Serbs

This is a great lecture in English. The only thing I found from his lectures in English, a lot of other lectures in Russian.
A possible problem is, the author of the channel is serb. He turned off comments and possibly turned off the visibility of the channel in countries that were unpleasant to him (I don’t know anything here) . There are no problems with the visibility of this video in Russia.

Klesov is a two-time doctor of sciences, he has been living in America for thirty years and teaches at Harvard.
He is an interdisciplinary specialist and has never been a historian, but he has compiled a large database of DNA genealogy, developed a mathematical apparatus for
the relationship of mutations in DNA. This led him into a certain conflict with the existing clans in historical science.
This video provides an exhaustive interpretation of the DNA genealogy of the Serbs. They have a tragic history. The R1b (what we now call the Western Europeans)
brutally exterminated the Serbs several thousand years ago.
It’s all in this video. It should be noted that this is politisied topic, and YouTube can create problems for it.

About Rurik.
DNA analysis of his descendants has shown that they all come from a real person who lived a little over a thousand years ago
and, according to DNA genealogy, was from the Baltic Slavs (!) and definitely not from the Normans.

__Are you really from Russia and are you still there?__
A counter question.
I understand you’re German. Are the Germans with Russian roots around you not going to return to Russia?

Thanks, but the video requires a log-in; can you provide the title?

What I’m really interested in is accurate, to the extent possible, European (White) History. Odysseus prefers to disparage me for my German ethnicity, as well as all Germans, those Crushers of Aryan Srbs, who stole Serbiaopolis and then, apparently, spent centuries re-writing that history, albeit doing so before we could even write…He denies heavy Turkic/asiatic genetic admixture in current Slavic populations in Eastern Europe/Balkans whilst claiming modern Germans are essentially Asians. He won’t answer about asiatic origins of the Celts…otherwise, I take no issue with his maniacal defense of all things “Srb.� I tend to think he’s claiming Srbs were the Old Europeans, as are/were many population groups.

So, was Prince Rurik a Srb? A Germanic/Nordic? Who were the Rus? Were they Corded Ware People?

Wasn’t the Cyrillic alphabet created in the 9th century by two “Greek� priests who were trying to tame the Slavs?

Are you really from Russia and are you still there?

If you are really interested in who the Serbs are in terms of DNA genealogy, then I can recommend it.

Video Link

That’s the impression I was under, though I could be mistaken. I base it on a certain (admittedly limited) number of Bengalis that I have known personally, though only in passing.

The remaining tulips are hopeless and should not even be talked about.

Yet, you bring me into it, don’t you?

I wonder why you vicariously single me out? You, Serbian chicken….anyway, I’ll take the bait.

The entire contest is whether or not modern Serbians, such as yourself, who remain within the Turkish Balkans, are the human vestiges of the “Aryan� population who once roamed the earth teaching/smashing the black-haired people into civilization/submission? Or, is the fair Celtic/Germanic Tulip the more likely relic of same?

Were the Etruscans of Celtic origin/admixture? Are the Celts asiatic? Why are Russians from the steppes considered Slavic? Why do you say Germans from the same steppes are asiatic?

Are there any similarities between the first observed Germanic script and the north Etruscan script?

Whence did the Etruscans arrive to “Italy?� Did they mix with the Old Europeans? Were the Old Europeans the Srbs? Or, were the Latini the Srbs?

when did the Greeks come to Europe, where did they come from and what were their names then?

Why don’t you tell us?

The mainstream does not want to put all the elements together and declare that Sanskrit originates from the language that originated in Vin�a (for the sake of the story, let’s call it –Serbian).

Have any written languages/scripts determined to have been recorded before 3,500 BC been successfully/solidly/generally translated?

Who is gatekeeping True human history? Who is it that has a bee in his/their bonnet over the once-mighty Serbians? Are Serbians and Serbian history the only targets for historical obscurement?

In this book we can see ‘Our Father’ in old Greek, where it can be seen that it is actually corrupted Serbian. How is it possible?

If you could be trusted, that would be an interesting point to consider.

If we do not know that (should be a very simple) answer – why do we not know it?

Do you know the answer?

There are many things we should/could know, but for some strange reason, we just do not. Someone knows; “we� aren’t permitted to know. I don’t think you can rightly blame the GermanTulips for this mess.

There is one special topic that no one has yet started. Almost no one knows that the Mahabharata was not set in India but in – Russia. That is logical since it, like the Rg Veda, was brought to India by the Aryans. One of the places from the Mahabharata is Kursk.

Maybe someone will ask for a reference for that (I don’t know what reference would be credible enough) but at least I have opened the eyes of those who already have an open mind. The remaining tulips are hopeless and should not even be talked about.

According to Klyosov, the maximum density of R1a (65%) is in several regions of Russia (Kursk region and about). There is nothing like this in percentage terms in Eastern Europe. Another point that he noted is that the Rurikovichi, according to DNA genealogy, came to Russia from the eastern Baltic and were also Slavs by origin, not Normans. There are practically no DNA traces of the Normans on the Russian plain

I for one have been informed. Thank you.

In fact, the original name in Serbian is Eney (sometimes pronounced as Eneida). Recently, one US reader criticized me for my name (Odyssey) because it is supposedly not correct, probably thinking that Homer wrote in English. It is incredible how many US readers arrogantly think that American pronunciation is the rule for names from all languages.

Attached is a Serbian song (with lyrics) from the 70s dedicated to the Odyssey (an exciting and often unpredictable journey) based on my name and my long journey back home.

Odyssey
Way to fame and fortune, way to the throne
It was always the same from the beginning
The road to hell and abyss, the road to debacle
It was always the same from the beginning
No one knows what will happen, what to expect
Yesterdays leaves us a trail in the hair
The past and the future, the same story
Everything that shines ain’t always gonna be gold
Odyssey, odyssey, the path of thorns or the path of orchids
Odyssey, odyssey, life is just a new odyssey

Video Link

Aeneas

I hope that those interested will find a real treasure trove of knowledge in my comments here. I will be around for a while longer if anyone has any more questions. The fact is, as seen even by the least sharp knives in the drawer, that the mainstream has completely falsified history related to the Aryans, Sanskrit, etc., so that even after 200 years we officially do not know who they were.

I am aware that some of the facts I have presented are shocking to those who are a little slower and who are lagging behind in development. I am ready to work with such people one on one to reach the majority of readers. I wish everyone to stay cool, to be alive, healthy and fat.

English, French and Latin are contemporaries and the speakers of these languages ​​were neighbours and lived intermingled. Where and when did speakers of English and Sanskrit meet if the time difference between them is more than 3000 years? Was the mutual influence of these languages ​​one-way (e.g. only Sanskrit influenced English) or was it two-way?

Israelis murder children and civilians. Show me where in the Bhagavad Gita that Krishna instructs Arjuna to do this.

Those who (rightly) find a connection between English and Sanskrit do not explain where and when they met in history, given that English was formed in the 12th c.AC.

Take the “rightly” out of it. The techniques used to find the connections would work with any language in existence. The point of finding connections so far away, in a “cool” language is to avoid the connection of English to French and French to Latin. People into these theories love building castles in the sky, for the purposes of avoiding their actual heritage.

I never understood this fixation that some “white nationalists� have with India and their religion.

For reasons I don’t pretend to understand they seem to think Hinduism/Buddhism and SanScrit is superior their own culture. That impression is even in the opening of this article, stated almost as fact. To me, it’s a way to run away from Christianity and the superiority of the Romans/Greeks. Modern white nationalism involves an almost desperate need for perfect relatives. Coming up with some fake ones untouched by Christianity will do.

In any event, the theory about ready to meet the wonders of living Brahminism. Hopefully the article 10 years from now will be something like “Why Ayranism is bad academics and science” . The current need to come up with endless charts and dubious detailed evidence smacks of the worst uses of science, like in “climate change”.

It is clear that this is a corrupted Serbian language, since the Greeks do not even have some of the most basic sounds (B, C, CH, etc.), which is not surprising since their original language was not Indo-European (whatever that means). In Cratylus, Plato and Socrates talk about words borrowed from the barbarians (i.e., Phrygians), which are clearly Serbian and some of them have been translated into English (it is comical that the Serbian word brat (brother) was translated into English, German, Spanish, etc. through a Greek loss in translation as father padre, pater, etc).

It’s clear that you are a mental patient along with being retarded. What part of alpha beta do you not understand? Please stop being a mental patient along with being retarded.

I think you misread what I wrote. I was certainly implying that Margaret Alexious and the other Greek professor who find nothing suspicious about the history of Greek language to be nuts!

I am not impressed at all by Margaret Alexiou, except that she has autistic twins. The statement about the Homeric language in modern Greece is simply ridiculous. What is the Homeric language? Does she know that Homer was not Greek at all? I have personally seen for myself, at a couple of different universities in the world that the teaching of ancient history (so-called Greek and Roman) there is actually a construction of falsifications and a mixture of fiction, legends, fabrications and grains of truth.

Similar to the non-publication of the decoding of the Etruscan script is the origin of Greek literacy, supposedly obtained by the Phoenicians. There is also an attempt to manipulate that the Etruscan script originated from the Greek alphabet, although this is several hundred years older. It is ignored that the Greek alphabet had letters that do not exist in the Greek language (e.g. Ч = CH) because the letters were used as numbers (which was later used in Latin, too) so it can be easily seen who the Greeks took the alphabet from (Ч = 90).

And not just the alphabet. It is simply ridiculous that Ataturk’s Vampire above writes that the Sea People were Greeks, which is nowhere to be found in the extensive literature on the SP, because, simply, there were no Greeks at that time.

(Future) Greeks were continentals and did not have their own word for the sea, so they took it from the natives of Greece. That word has remained in the modern Greek language to this day (even an international term was created based on this – thalassocracy) and perhaps that is what fooled Margaret into hearing the Homeric (i.e. Pelasgian) language, especially since Greek is not her mother tongue.

Note: I believe that unz readers, whether they agree or disagree, enjoy my comments and I am sure that those who are thirsty for knowledge and frustrated by mainstream fakery, can learn a lot from them.

your a stinking liar kashmiri pandits are 8% pre mongol central asian genes most indians have low amounts of r1a, 80% asi and harrapan ,have some pride in your ethnecity and harappan south india genes .

Anachronism.
The gypsies are a later wave of Chandala from the same wellspring;
the Serbians came to Europe as the whores and camp followers of the Huns
who dumped them in the Wolhynian swamps, while the Czigans were the
whores and camp followers of the Mongols.

Historians, Archaeo, Antrop. are mostly freemasons, expert in lying.
Aborigenal are the surviving Neanderthal men coming from Africa running away to islands.

Everyone who is not either North European, African or Mongols is from India, there is no doubt about.

You might definitely find the answer in this research on India as the cradle of all civilizations:

https://archive.org/details/2024-preliminary-report-on-the-findings-of-the-mountain-complex-city-of-atlantis-eugenio-ralbadisole

While the early Vedas are pro-Aryan, Zoroastrianism was anti-Aryan in much the same way Christianity is anti-Jewish. Indra, after all, is portrayed negatively in Avestan scriptures.

The Gathas make it clear that Zoroaster was exiled to BMAC, and Aryans like the Scythians were considered a cursed people for rejecting his message—just as Christians saw Jews as cursed. Zoroaster opposed the Aryan aristocracy’s excessive cattle raids and constructed a dualistic cosmology to justify better treatment of them, which led to his exile.

The early Vedas are explicitly pro-Aryan, whereas the Gathas are anti-Aryan. Even the Vendidad states, “Ahriman comes from the North.” By the time of the Achaemenids, Aryan had become a polysemous term, much like how European Christians later claimed to be “the true Israel” or “true Jews.”

Let me repeat again – when did the Greeks come to Europe, where did they come from and what were their names then?

Upon their arrival to Europe, they took over a lot of the language from the natives (Herodotus – ‘we all speak the Pelasgian language’). Some things are not true at all. What happened to so-called Old Greek and why was it changed to New Greek?

Speaking of the Greeks, there are a few non-Greek things – Homer, Iliad, Odyssey, Achilles, Trojans, Aeneas, Rg Veda&Mahabharata, Sorbaeus (Orpheus), Minoans, Mycenaeans, original Acropolis, Zeus and mythology, Delphi, Herodotus (half), Thucydides, Thales, 7 Wise Men, Spartans, Alexander, Gordius (knot), Croesus, Seleucid, Ptolemy, music (Phrygians brought instruments to the Peloponnese), Muses (>museum), Olympic Games (triam), Xanthos obelisk with text (8th century BC, 200 years before the Greeks took over literacy from the Pelasgian Serbs), Justinian, etc., etc.

At the time of Alexander, the Greeks still did not come close to Mount Olympus. They never had kings or states (only polises), the first state was given to them by the English and Austrians (with Russian knowledge) only in 1829. The Olympic Games are a fabrication based on ancient Pelasgian customs – the triam.

Here’s how the Greek Our Father looked in 1828. A very rare book, published in 1828, written by maybe the greatest Greek linguist, Constantine Economou, who wrote it during his stay in Moscow under the patronage of the emperor Alexander. In this book we can see ‘Our Father’ in old Greek, where it can be seen that it is actually corrupted Serbian. How is it possible?

View post on imgur.com

It is clear that this is a corrupted Serbian language, since the Greeks do not even have some of the most basic sounds (B, C, CH, etc.), which is not surprising since their original language was not Indo-European (whatever that means). In Cratylus, Plato and Socrates talk about words borrowed from the barbarians (i.e., Phrygians), which are clearly Serbian and some of them have been translated into English (it is comical that the Serbian word brat (brother) was translated into English, German, Spanish, etc. through a Greek loss in translation as father padre, pater, etc).

Did Serbs live in Troy?

At that time, there were no Bulgarians, Albanians, Romanians, Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, Turks, Italians, Slavs.
Serbs (Illyrians, Dacians, Sarmatians) lived from the Peloponnese to the Baltic.

Were the Greeks (whom the natives would give that a somewhat derogatory name which meaning the Greeks do not know, but still do not like and rarely use) present in the region – someone needs to finally answer the initial question. If we do not know that (should be a very simple) answer – why do we not know it?

Some mainstream historic forgeries are kept in the public domain even though the mainstream truthfully presents its constituent elements. This is done by counting on the laziness, stupidity or frustration of the readers, expecting them not to want or be able to put these elements together and add 2+2.

This is the case with Sanskrit, for example.

The mainstream writes fairy tales about its origin but also says:

1. The language spoken in Poland/Belarus (around 2000BC) split into a branch that went with the Aryans to Asia and a part that stayed in Europe.
2. The part that went to Asia is called the Indo-Iranian languages.
3. From the Indo-Iranian branch came Sanskrit and from it most of the languages ​​of the subcontinent.
4. The branch of the language that stayed in Europe is called Balto-Slavic.
5. The language from which the two mentioned branches of the language originated could not have originated in Poland/Belarus because at the time of its origin (Ice Age) there was ice and the area was uninhabited.
6. It is known that after the First Industrial Revolution in Vin�a (5000BC), the people of Vin�a, thanks to the melting of the ice, migrated in all directions, including Poland.
7. These people brought their language and mythology from Vin�a to Poland.
8. This is precisely the language from which the Indo-Iranian branch split off, which was taken to Asia with the (Vin�a) mythology and from which Vedic mythology originated.

The mainstream does not want to put all the elements together and declare that Sanskrit originates from the language that originated in VinÄ�a (for the sake of the story, let’s call it –Serbian).

Many other mainstream historical forgeries can be exposed with the most basic logic and do not require any special expert knowledge or more or less reliable references.

I did imply that there was a substantial Slavic population at Troy, but I also suspect, for many reasons, that Troy and the Trojan war were much more recent events than is commonly supposed. I’m not sure how the close fit between Etruscan and Coelbren scripts and the loose fit between Slavonic and Etruscan scripts play into this, but I’m similarly perplexed by the Greek language and how it fits with the Homeric narrative. Consider this quote from Margaret Alexiou, emeritus professor of modern Greek and comparative literature at Harvard:

“Homeric Greek is probably closer to demotic (modern) Greek than twelfth century Middle English is to modern spoken English.�

I believe this is the same professor who, as she got off the boat on her first visit to Greece, was shocked to hear the stevedores speaking what seemed to be Homeric Greek… Another professor of Greek, Roderick Saxey on his first journey to Greece, is quoted in the interesting book “Re-dating Ancient Greece 500 BC=1800 AD?� by Sylvain Tristan; Dr. Saxey writes:

How little the language has changed, even in well over three millennia. A huge amount of vocabulary and even grammar as obviously connected to Modern Greek as that from Middle English to Modern English; some words were phoneme-to-phoneme the exact same as what falls today from the lips of every person in the country, from fishers to businessmen to prostitutes to little children at play. This is a very humbling and awe-invoking experience.

In his view, “Greek today is basically what it was in the ancient world,� with the vocabulary “essentially that of Hellenistic times.� To conclude, he adds:

The language has been most influenced by the occupation of foreign invaders and by the Greek’s looking to themselves, yet it is noteworthy how little has changed. I remember my exaltation while standing on the Mediterranean shore at learning from my pocket dictionary that the modern word for “wave� is to kuma, the same as in Homer; my delight in seeing little children able to make puns on the ancient inscription at the Oracle at Delphi; and the awe and wonder at studying Linear B and finding the same words I had heard so often on the bus or at the vegetable market.

So “Greece� is supposed to have kept it’s language intact for three thousand years despite being militarily occupied for hundreds of years at a time by the Latin Romans, the Byzantines, the French Normans, and finally the Turks? Add to this that there are no daughter languages descended from the “Greek� of three thousand years ago…By contrast, a modern English speaker has a tough time reading Chaucer and the only foreign influence on England since that time was the French. Do they speak Latin in Italy?

Perhaps “Greek� is a more recent language and Greek ruins are more recent as well?

In this connection, I found the recent translation of the Iliad, “Homer’s Iliad. The Real Story,� by John D. Martin extremely interesting, Without doubting the conventional chronology, Martin remarks that the message of the Iliad is “surprisingly modern,� and amounts to perhaps the “greatest antiwar literature ever written.� This will strike readers as strange, but Martin systematically dissects misconceptions about what the Iliad actually says; he shows that the Iliad is not at all a romantic hymn to war in honor of the “face that launched a thousand ships�; rather, in the Iliad, the reasons for the war turn out to be not what they seem. I think he proves his point and I would further conclude that the Iliad couldn’t possibly have been transmitted orally, with a straight face, for hundreds of years as a glorification of war without anyone noticing the contradiction.

As Martin points out, It is not King Menelaus, the husband of Helen, who launches the war. It is rather Agamemnon, who, for his own reasons which have to do with his family history of incest and possibly pedophilia, has launched the war to protect himself from the wrath of the gods via amassing uncountable riches which he refuses to share with his soldiers. Menelaus is just along for show, since, as the Iliad gradually reveals, Menelaus, Helen’s husband, is gay.

The first hint of the inclinations of Menelaus appears when Agamemnon upbraids Menelaus for being “too concerning of men.� But, Greek readers would have known all along from other sources that Menelaus was once raped by Helen’s father-in-law, King Tyndareus. The dainty duel arranged by Zeus between Menelaus and gay Paris (a possible lover?) is another step in understanding, and then there is the scene where Menelaus sees for the first time the beautiful body of slain Patroclus:

�Nor did it escape the notice of Menelaus, dear to Ares, that Patroclus had been slain, but he went among the foremost fighters, armored in flashing (aethopi) bronze, and at once bestrode that one, as a mother over a calf, her first born, wailing, not before knowing motherhood,�

After much careful development of his interpretation, Martin concludes, “The Trojan War was fought, ostensibly over recompense for a man who lost his wife and later fell in love with a male corpse. Book 17 is Homer’s reductio ad absurdum on the mortal plane, of the Trojan War…�.

During these battlefield scenes, the erstwhile wife on Menelaus looks out from the wall along with Hector’s wife, appropriately named “Andromache,� or “battler of men.� Note that Andromache addresses Hector as, “Oh thou vigorous bedfellow.� But this is meant ironically, as becomes clear when Hector prepares to pass through the gate of Troy onto the battlefield and is surrounded by his many “bedfellows� who wish him well.

Considering the context of Greek culture, Homer is not taking pot shots at sex preferences, but is rather making the point that nothing in war is as it seems. Agamemnon’s reasons are the darkest, but perhaps not so different from the reasons the elites of today support war? One of the Rothschilds came out public a few years ago that she had been raped several times growing up by her own family members in order to toughen her up for the business world. The psychology could be the same: their need for money to cover this behavior from men and gods could be as astronomical as Agamemnon thought he needed. On the other hand, players like Tony Blinken and Volodymyr Zelensky are more like Homer’s second-string characters Menelaus and Paris or Hector?

So, we have.a “surprisingly modern� classic written in a surprisingly modern classical language. So, I wonder if Homer writing about the Medieval ancestors of our modern elites? If so, all of Greek and Roman history would have to be moved forward to the Middle Ages, a nightmarish scenario similar to dredging the bottom life of the ocean and dumping it all on someone’s desk. But I‘m willing to give that idea an audience; I’m an old retired man without any academic ambitions. Without the idea of global falsification of history, I feel I would fall asleep everyday over my margarita. (P. S. I have never lived in a basement and my mom passed away over a half-century ago.)

Returning for a moment to the Etruscan question in Italy. In Renaissance times, there was a rivalry between Florence, which was proud of its Etruscan heritage in “Tuscany� and Rome, which according to some, won the rivalry by making up almost a thousand years of faux history to justify it’s claim to power, It seems that the Tuscans believed that their Etruscan past (and the flood?) was not that long ago. For example, Fomenko and Nosovskiy write, “Marionas, a Franciscan monk from Florence…links the ancient past of Etruria with the myth of Genesis in his tractate entitled, ‘On the Progeny, Nobility, and Glory of Tuscia.’ According to his opinion, the sons of Noah populated the world after the deluge, and one of them named Homer, decided to settle in Etruria…His descendants were the first to embrace the teachings of Christ.�

Now, considering the interpretation of the Iliad alluded to earlier, it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to think of Homer as an early Christian. He certainly didn’t think much of polytheism! There are some tantalizing clues in this direction offered by Sylvain Tristan, an author I mentioned earlier. Here is part of a summary at the end of one of his chapters:

Homer is said to have lived in the 8th-6th century BC and his famous poems probably took on a fixed form in the 6th century BC.

The only people who bore a name similar to Homer’s in the last 3,000 years of Greek history are the members of the Saint Omer clan in the Frankish Greece of the 13th century AD.

The time interval between Homer and the Saint Omer clan is 1,800 years (my note:: this is also a time interval identified in the mathematical analysis of Fomenko and Nosovskiy as used repeatedly in the artificial elongation of the historical record)

Both Homer and Saint Omer, a canonized bishop hailing from the Saint Omer’s hometown, were blind.

Homer called the Greeks “Achaeans� and 1,800 years later the Franks founded the principality of Achaea.

Homer’s poems are supposed to have been completely forgotten for more than a millennium in the West, and first translated into modern languages such as Italian or English in the 16th century only.

Hopefully some will find this rant at least amusing. I think it raises some serious questions also.

Thanks for the clarification. I was working from a translation of a translation!

As I said, the Etruscan language and script have been attempted to be decoded using dozens of languages (including some African) but the neighbouring Serbian language has NOT been used. Officially, Etruscan is still a scientific mystery and the language of the founders of Western civilization has not been decoded. Interesting.

However, the Etruscan script and language HAVE BEEN decoded back in 1984 and a 332-page book has been published about it. This was done by a Serbian priest, S. Bilbija, who served in Italy. In the book, he even published translations of some Etruscan texts where a Slavic reader can still read some words or parts today. The book can be found on the Internet and I believe that you will be able to read it and understand the meaning.

https://www.scribd.com/document/444448431/Staroevropski-Jeziki-i-Pismo-Etruraca-Svetislav-Bilbija-pdf#

Bilbija also discovered some other things. He established that the Etruscan language is identical to the so-called Luwian languages which were supposedly extinct (just like Illyrian, Thracian, Gothic, Dacian, etc.). Interestingly, the mother tongue of 40 Roman emperors has virtually disappeared recently without a trace and there are no remains of the people they spoke. Of course, all these names refer to the Serbian language and that is the only reason why they were ‘extinct’.

However, there is a carved inscription on an obelisk in the town of Sirbin or Sardis from the 8th century BC, which the Greeks renamed Xanthos. There were attempts to shift the date of its carving in the stone from the 8th c.BC to the 4.c.BC, and to assign these texts to Greeks because they got their literacy in the 6th c.BC and came to Lydia in the 4th c.BC (i.e. after Alexander). However, it was obvious that Greeks did not have some of these letters in their alphabet.

Ethnology of Etruscans had great similarities with Phrygians who were originally a Thracian tribe which came from Balkan to Asia Minor: Brigi-Bregi-Brezani-Brdjani (highlanders). Greeks pronounced they name as ‘Phrygi(ans)’ because they could not pronounce the letter B.

S. Bilbija, who deciphered Etruscan texts, also deciphered the text on the so-called Xanthos Obelisk. So, in the town of Sirbin, as Strabo calls it and as it was actually called, which Greeks renamed to Xanthos, in the province of Lydia, Asia Minor, a Serbian code from the eighth century BC was found carved on a large stone. The Code is engraved in Serbian, so it can be read without much effort.
Lycian texts were collected at the end of the 19th c. by the Austrian professor Ernst Kalinka. The interpretation of the text in Greek and other languages did not give results, and it was read in its entirety by S.Bilbija, with the interpretation of the ancient Serbian language and the alphabet from Lydia and Lycia. Bilbija first interpreted and published his decipherment of the text on the north side of the monument, according to a transcript by Ernst Kalinka (p. 44 of Kalinka’s book), with 34 statements that Bilbija interpreted it using similarities with the Serbian language.

He makes these blanket statements without quoting references or sources, much like the Indian Malla used to do, and still does.

So I’ll make one myself:

Gypsies brought the Indian language to the Serbs.

It’s probably more likely than that the Serbs brought their language to the Indians, and I don’t need to back it up. But if someone wants to research this further, they’re welcome.

Who knows, maybe Tulip will surprise us all.

Why don’t you address me directly?

Why don’t you offer an explanation for your theory that Russian Slavs, who originated/arrived from the Eurasian Steppes, are Slavic, yet the “Germans,� who originated/arrived from same, are asiatic? And, what about the Celts? Asiatics, too?

You keep hammering away about scripts/languages from a time in “pre-history,â€� yet you offer no real information/source material on translations of same; you just dangle carrots or tell us – maybe someday I will reveal all! Well, get on with it, Odysseus.

The last time you offered a link for evidence of your asserted Serbiaopolis mumbo-jumbo, I read the thirty (?) page paper to find it said nothing as you claimed, and your response to me was – Well, I didn’t think you would read it. So, there’s that chink in your credibility armor. But, at least you were honest…so there’s that.

I’m convinced… by controlling the history and, in particular, the chronology of the world.

This is absolutely true, and even a cursory study of human history/relics/monuments/texts indicates our history began long before the established mainstream narrative. The human creatures on this planet do not all share a precisely common origin – that’s my takeaway.

I think the German aversion to the modern Slavic element was based more on the Mongolian/Turkish infusion within Slavic peoples than with the original Slavic genome. The Serbs of Serbiaopolis are long gone, Odysseus, just as are the “Aryans� of India/Iran/Egypt. It seems the Aryans of Europa are now suffering the very same fate as our forbears.

The question is – WHO is gatekeeping World History and for what purpose?

Stupid Fucking Idiot will deny it every day and seven times a day on Sunday.

Now, see – I’m not so difficult to deal with, am I? Just ask littlebunnyfufu.

Are you claiming that the Trojans were Slavs?

The Pole you are talking about was named Tadeusz Wolański. In addition to research on the Etruscans, he found material evidence of contacts mentioned in Polish chronicles between the rulers of Lechia/Poland and the rulers of ancient Rome, especially Julius Caesar.
https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Wola%C5%84ski