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    ***Note to readers and commenters*** The blog is now archived and inactive. Ron Unz has created a comment thread for the intellectually diverse community of commenters to continue open discussions on whatever topics they deem interesting. The blog and thread will no longer be moderated and will only be accessible to previously approved commenters who...
  • @Marty
    @dfordoom

    You’re blocked by FedEx.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    You’re blocked by FedEx.

    That’s weird. Of all the political dissident blogs I’ve ever encountered mine is just about the most moderate. I guess even moderate dissent is now forbidden.

  • Dissident says:
    June 30, 2021 at 4:37 am GMT •ï¿½300 Words
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Almost Missouri

    A.M., thank you and V. K. Ovelund for your gallant defense of me as a commenter in general—I appreciate the sentiments.

    Background on commenter Dissident’s off-topic attack on me:

    I have taken to objecting, when it comes up, to pedophile Dissident’s ongoing NAMBLA nonce musings and catamite portrait posts. Dissident is not happy about this.

    Here’s his latest obsessive-compulsive post in that onanistic vein:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/anti-beautyism/#comment-4748647 (#277)

    I get a sputtering mention under the MORE tag, LOL

    Is the malignant audacity of a Hitler fanboy to assume some imagined perch as a self-anointed moral arbiter and avenger of some evil that is entirely a figment of his fevered imagination going to be further indulged?

    Returning, tangentially, to the decidedly indelicate sentiment that zundel referenced: a giant f[–]k you. As repellent as I generally find such vulgarity…
    �
    Links to Dissident's (typically bizarre) reply to my first comment telling him to desist his perverse posts, and copious search results of the word “boy†in Dissident's comment history:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-msm-tries-to-explain-the-racial-wreckening-on-the-roads/#comment-4737666 (#40)

    As for the past “genocide†topic in question, my concise assessment of historic Nazi motivations, actions, and outcomes has yet to be rebutted by Dissident, nor by original commenter Jack D, whom I addressed in that thread.

    Replies: @iffen, @Dissident

    I have taken to objecting, when it comes up, to pedophile [sic] Dissident’s ongoing NAMBLA nonce [sic] musings and catamite portrait [sic] posts.

    Yet again, you hurl the same incendiary epithets at me, and offer the same libelous, unsubstantiated, unfounded characterizations of my comments. As if through mere repetition, these somehow gain any substance or credibility. As I wrote in my response to your June 22nd recycling of the initial attack you had lashed-out at me with back in early March,

    I reiterate, once again, my confidence that no careful, fair review of the relevant parts of my commenting history, taken in their proper context, could reasonably be taken as supporting any of your assertions or insinuations. Quite the contrary, I would aver.

    By now, I have posted a number of detailed rebuttals to the repeated libelous attacks upon me that Mr. Errican has now posted across several different threads. Perhaps my most concise response to-date is this one from June 25th. I would urge everyone to, at a bare minimum, carefully read through that comment of mine, in its entirety. Linked within it is a lengthy comment of mine from April that I would also place among the most essential for properly understanding me.

    Returning, for the moment, to my June 23rd rebuttal that I quoted from above, I noted in it that (to-date, and to the best of my awareness) neither Mr. Errican nor anyone else have,

    made even the faintest attempt at articulating any reasoned, substantive objection to or criticism of any of the images of boys, or sentiments, thoughts and views concerning boys that I have posted.

    [MORE]

    For those who may be unfamiliar with the term nonce that Mr. Errican has repeatedly used in libeling me, I offer the following, via Dictionary.com:

    British Dictionary definitions for nonce (2 of 2)

    nonce / (nÉ’ns) /
    noun
    1 prison slang a rapist or child molester; a sexual offender
    […]
    [Collins English Dictionary – Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
    © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins]

  • res says:
    June 30, 2021 at 2:11 am GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @Corvinus
    @res

    "Says the man who is one of the quickest to reach for the troll flag. 21 on just the first page of your comment history at the moment."

    Here is but a sample of the comments I believe are worthy of the "Troll" designation. I would say that level-headed people would think the following statements are based on raw emotion and are irrational. Perhaps you think different. And, thanks for keeping track of that number. Not weird in the least!

    --Taylor won’t name the Jew. He’s just as useless as Murray the Moron or Murron. Problem is Jews are smarter and use money & influence to manipulate whites. Whites Built vs White Guilt.

    --The US is a soft military dictatorship. The military couldn’t account for $2 Trillion on 9/10/2001 as Rumsfeld announced on TV. Today, they can’t account for over $20 Trillion. Where did that currency go? How much went to Israel? 911 happened to cover up their theft by killing the Navy investigators stationed at the pentagon who were looking into the situation. Their offices were the direct hit. Their data backup site in building 7 was destroyed to get rid of evidence.

    --Sandi Morris is also a mudshark, like many collegiate+ female athletes. The best move is to keep your daughter out of collegiate sports entirely.

    --The best ways to limit Jewish power would be first, to make dual citizenship a disqualifier for every government job from teacher to mailman to politician. Second to enforce ethnic quotas.

    --Thank God we defeated Hitler! Can you imagine living in a world of open borders, credit card usury, government-approved riots, sleight-of-hand tricks by a (((central banking cabal))), no freedom of speech and grooming children? Where your race is demonized for its evil, unforgivable achievements, culture and traditions?

    --The first time Enlightenment thinkers got into government, they immediately committed a genocide of Catholics in the Vendee. These thinkers are the source of liberalism that needs to be purged.

    "Of course, you receive even more than you give. Which should also be a clue ; )"

    That I am on the right track regarding the pursuit of knowledge and truth. Thanks for your endorsement!

    Replies: @res

    And, thanks for keeping track of that number. Not weird in the least!

    It is trivial to go to your commenter page and search for “Troll: Corvinus” Note that can result in an undercount ; )

    As for the rest of your comment, thanks for the chuckle. I think you have passed the event horizon of the Corvinus singularity–parody is indistinguishable from the real thing.

  • @dfordoom
    @RogerL


    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.
    �
    I already have a political blog on Blogger and it would be inconvenient and confusing for me to try to run two political blogs.

    Anyone who wants to follow my blog or leave comments is of course very welcome to do so. Comments are moderated (which in my opinion is absolutely essential) and my moderation policies are slightly stricter than AE's schoolmarm.

    If anyone wants to write a guest post they're welcome to do so. At the moment the blog is set up with myself as the only authorised poster and I don't want to fiddle with those settings at the moment (although I'd certainly consider it in the future) but if you email a guest post to me I'll publish it (under the pseudonym of your choice of course) as long as it passes muster with my schoolmarm.

    The blog mainly focuses on social issue stuff (the family, political correctness, censorship, marriage, sex, education, history, Wokeness in popular culture, the politicisation of science, etc). It has a modest following and a few decent regular commenters. I check it every day so the longest you'd ever have to wait for a comment to be approved would be 24 hours (I have to do things like sleep).

    Anyway that's what I personally can offer at the moment. If you missed the link to my blog last time here it is again -

    https://anotherpoliticallyincorrectblog.blogspot.com/

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Marty

    You’re blocked by FedEx.

    •ï¿½Replies: @dfordoom
    @Marty


    You’re blocked by FedEx.
    �
    That's weird. Of all the political dissident blogs I've ever encountered mine is just about the most moderate. I guess even moderate dissent is now forbidden.
  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 30, 2021 at 1:06 am GMT •ï¿½200 Words
    @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    We’ll get to that.

    We'll see.

    I will answer your question.

    First I don't accept your presentation of what they are thinking.

    Italian, German, American, British, etc. politicians don't think in those terms anymore. To the core they are mostly opportunists, blank slaters and effective altruists and as always handmaids to capitalists, in this case globalists. They have no more concern for traditional Italians, Germans, Americans, Brits, etc. than you do. As to why they think that way, I think that we need to go back to the Enlightenment. Of course, emancipation of the Jews was a part of the Enlightenment so I have done the heavy lifting part of finding the Jew.

    So let's see how you do with answering my question. Why are there 10,000 Bret Stephenses for every Stephen Miller in the U. S.?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom

    Italian, German, American, British, etc. politicians don’t think in those terms anymore. To the core they are mostly opportunists, blank slaters and effective altruists and as always handmaids to capitalists, in this case globalists

    It’s the nature of democracy. Politicians will always be opportunists because democracy is essentially political prostitution. They’re handmaids to capitalists for the same reason that prostitutes hope to find a john with a well-filled wallet.

    Politicians are just like whores except that some whores probably really do have hearts of gold. And most whores are in their own way honest. If they offer you a particular sexual service for a particular sum of money they’ll probably give you what you paid for. Politicians are like the dishonest prostitutes who promise you a good time and then don’t deliver, and then steal your wallet.

    In the case of prostitutes it’s the dishonest 5% who give the rest a bad name. In the case of politicians it’s the dishonest 99% who give the rest a bad name.

    Expecting anything but lies and cynical opportunism from a politician is hopelessly unrealistic. And always has been.

    •ï¿½Agree: Dissident
  • @A123
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Donald Trump, with his zest for life, was everything, in themselves, that they deny. They saw him and saw their shadow. Like most humans, this was too much for them. It sent them crazy.
    �
    A number of observers have pointed out that Trump's zest for life is very Jewish. A traditional toast is LaChaim. (la - to, chaim - life).

    His recognition of The Golan Heights and relocation of the U.S. Embassy drove violent Muslims and their sympathizers crazy. It got him a great deal of praise from observant Jews, including the Orthodox in the U.S.

    There is a great deal of inertia in terms of individuals and their party identity. Voices like Rashid Tlaib and Ilhan Omar are leading the DNC into open Anti-Semitism. If democracy in the U.S. survives, there will be a trend away from the National Socialists Democrats.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I feel like you might benefit from more curiosity; but I do like your comparison of Trump to Rodney Dangerfield’s character from Caddyshack. Shame that so many contemporary Jews think that they have left this side of themselves behind.

    •ï¿½Disagree: A123
  • A123 says: •ï¿½Website
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen


    effective altruists
    �
    What is dwelling in the unexplored deeps of the "effective altruist"?

    So let’s see how you do with answering my question. Why are there 10,000 Bret Stephenses for every Stephen Miller in the U. S.?
    �
    Politics is where most moderns go to convince themselves that they are good people and to project their internal tensions onto the public stage.

    The fact that Jews strongly trend technocratic Democrat is because, like a lot of educated moderns, they have come to wholly identify with their abstract self.

    Donald Trump, with his zest for life, was everything, in themselves, that they deny. They saw him and saw their shadow. Like most humans, this was too much for them. It sent them crazy.

    Replies: @A123

    Donald Trump, with his zest for life, was everything, in themselves, that they deny. They saw him and saw their shadow. Like most humans, this was too much for them. It sent them crazy.

    A number of observers have pointed out that Trump’s zest for life is very Jewish. A traditional toast is LaChaim. (la – to, chaim – life).

    His recognition of The Golan Heights and relocation of the U.S. Embassy drove violent Muslims and their sympathizers crazy. It got him a great deal of praise from observant Jews, including the Orthodox in the U.S.

    There is a great deal of inertia in terms of individuals and their party identity. Voices like Rashid Tlaib and Ilhan Omar are leading the DNC into open Anti-Semitism. If democracy in the U.S. survives, there will be a trend away from the National Socialists Democrats.

    PEACE 😇

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @A123

    I feel like you might benefit from more curiosity; but I do like your comparison of Trump to Rodney Dangerfield's character from Caddyshack. Shame that so many contemporary Jews think that they have left this side of themselves behind.
  • @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    We’ll get to that.

    We'll see.

    I will answer your question.

    First I don't accept your presentation of what they are thinking.

    Italian, German, American, British, etc. politicians don't think in those terms anymore. To the core they are mostly opportunists, blank slaters and effective altruists and as always handmaids to capitalists, in this case globalists. They have no more concern for traditional Italians, Germans, Americans, Brits, etc. than you do. As to why they think that way, I think that we need to go back to the Enlightenment. Of course, emancipation of the Jews was a part of the Enlightenment so I have done the heavy lifting part of finding the Jew.

    So let's see how you do with answering my question. Why are there 10,000 Bret Stephenses for every Stephen Miller in the U. S.?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom

    effective altruists

    What is dwelling in the unexplored deeps of the “effective altruist”?

    So let’s see how you do with answering my question. Why are there 10,000 Bret Stephenses for every Stephen Miller in the U. S.?

    Politics is where most moderns go to convince themselves that they are good people and to project their internal tensions onto the public stage.

    The fact that Jews strongly trend technocratic Democrat is because, like a lot of educated moderns, they have come to wholly identify with their abstract self.

    Donald Trump, with his zest for life, was everything, in themselves, that they deny. They saw him and saw their shadow. Like most humans, this was too much for them. It sent them crazy.

    •ï¿½Replies: @A123
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Donald Trump, with his zest for life, was everything, in themselves, that they deny. They saw him and saw their shadow. Like most humans, this was too much for them. It sent them crazy.
    �
    A number of observers have pointed out that Trump's zest for life is very Jewish. A traditional toast is LaChaim. (la - to, chaim - life).

    His recognition of The Golan Heights and relocation of the U.S. Embassy drove violent Muslims and their sympathizers crazy. It got him a great deal of praise from observant Jews, including the Orthodox in the U.S.

    There is a great deal of inertia in terms of individuals and their party identity. Voices like Rashid Tlaib and Ilhan Omar are leading the DNC into open Anti-Semitism. If democracy in the U.S. survives, there will be a trend away from the National Socialists Democrats.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  • iffen says:
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    We'll get to that. First, let's answer my question.

    You’d be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.

    Replies: @iffen

    We’ll get to that.

    We’ll see.

    I will answer your question.

    First I don’t accept your presentation of what they are thinking.

    Italian, German, American, British, etc. politicians don’t think in those terms anymore. To the core they are mostly opportunists, blank slaters and effective altruists and as always handmaids to capitalists, in this case globalists. They have no more concern for traditional Italians, Germans, Americans, Brits, etc. than you do. As to why they think that way, I think that we need to go back to the Enlightenment. Of course, emancipation of the Jews was a part of the Enlightenment so I have done the heavy lifting part of finding the Jew.

    So let’s see how you do with answering my question. Why are there 10,000 Bret Stephenses for every Stephen Miller in the U. S.?

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen


    effective altruists
    �
    What is dwelling in the unexplored deeps of the "effective altruist"?

    So let’s see how you do with answering my question. Why are there 10,000 Bret Stephenses for every Stephen Miller in the U. S.?
    �
    Politics is where most moderns go to convince themselves that they are good people and to project their internal tensions onto the public stage.

    The fact that Jews strongly trend technocratic Democrat is because, like a lot of educated moderns, they have come to wholly identify with their abstract self.

    Donald Trump, with his zest for life, was everything, in themselves, that they deny. They saw him and saw their shadow. Like most humans, this was too much for them. It sent them crazy.

    Replies: @A123
    , @dfordoom
    @iffen


    Italian, German, American, British, etc. politicians don’t think in those terms anymore. To the core they are mostly opportunists, blank slaters and effective altruists and as always handmaids to capitalists, in this case globalists
    �
    It's the nature of democracy. Politicians will always be opportunists because democracy is essentially political prostitution. They're handmaids to capitalists for the same reason that prostitutes hope to find a john with a well-filled wallet.

    Politicians are just like whores except that some whores probably really do have hearts of gold. And most whores are in their own way honest. If they offer you a particular sexual service for a particular sum of money they'll probably give you what you paid for. Politicians are like the dishonest prostitutes who promise you a good time and then don't deliver, and then steal your wallet.

    In the case of prostitutes it's the dishonest 5% who give the rest a bad name. In the case of politicians it's the dishonest 99% who give the rest a bad name.

    Expecting anything but lies and cynical opportunism from a politician is hopelessly unrealistic. And always has been.
  • Corvinus says:
    June 29, 2021 at 9:50 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @YetAnotherAnon
    @nebulafox

    I hate to encourage anyone to respond to the troll Coronavirus, but this is a very good comment. The ideas were very well expressed by the good Professor Beaumeister here. Note that he wrote in a more innocent age, all of nine or so years ago - no one now would argue that mostly male CEOs or inventors meant men were 'better' than women, it would be prima facie evidence of the institutional and structural sexism inherent in ...

    http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Men go to extremes more than women. It’s true not just with IQ but also with other things, even height: The male distribution of height is flatter, with more really tall and really short men.

    Again, there is a reason for this, to which I shall return.

    For now, the point is that it explains how we can have opposite stereotypes. Men go to extremes more than women. Stereotypes are sustained by confirmation bias. Want to think men are better than women? Then look at the top, the heroes, the inventors, the philanthropists, and so on. Want to think women are better than men? Then look at the bottom, the criminals, the junkies, the losers.

    In an important sense, men really are better AND worse than women.

    Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.

    For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.

    For men, the outlook was radically different. If you go along with the crowd and play it safe, the odds are you won’t have children. Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends. Hence it was necessary to take chances, try new things, be creative, explore other possibilities. Sailing off into the unknown may be risky, and you might drown or be killed or whatever, but then again if you stay home you won’t reproduce anyway. We’re most descended from the type of men who made the risky voyage and managed to come back rich. In that case he would finally get a good chance to pass on his genes. We’re descended from men who took chances (and were lucky).

    The huge difference in reproductive success very likely contributed to some personality differences, because different traits pointed the way to success. Women did best by minimizing risks, whereas the successful men were the ones who took chances. Ambition and competitive striving probably mattered more to male success (measured in offspring) than female. Creativity was probably more necessary, to help the individual man stand out in some way. Even the sex drive difference was relevant: For many men, there would be few chances to reproduce and so they had to be ready for every sexual opportunity. If a man said “not today, I have a headache,†he might miss his only chance.

    Another crucial point. The danger of having no children is only one side of the male coin. Every child has a biological mother and father, and so if there were only half as many fathers as mothers among our ancestors, then some of those fathers had lots of children.

    Look at it this way. Most women have only a few children, and hardly any have more than a dozen — but many fathers have had more than a few, and some men have actually had several dozen, even hundreds of kids.

    My point is that no woman, even if she conquered twice as much territory as Genghis Khan, could have had a thousand children. Striving for greatness in that sense offered the human female no such biological payoff. For the man, the possibility was there, and so the blood of Genghis Khan runs through a large segment of today’s human population. By definition, only a few men can achieve greatness, but for the few men who do, the gains have been real.

    In terms of the biological competition to produce offspring, then, men outnumbered women both among the losers and among the biggest winners.
    �
    His comment about "women who played it safe" still applies, which is why the average woman in the West was conservative in the 50s and is 'radical' (as dictated by MSM) now. "Go along to get along".

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Triteleia Laxa, @Corvinus

    “I hate to encourage anyone to respond to the troll Coronavirus, but this is a very good comment”

    That’s hilarious on your part. I responded to nebulafox, you call me a troll. He provided me with his line of thinking, which I appreciate. See, that is how conversation works. You should learn something here, rather than have your stereotype sustained by confirmation bias 🙂

  • Corvinus says:
    June 29, 2021 at 9:30 pm GMT •ï¿½400 Words
    @res
    @Corvinus


    It’s much easier for you to characterize anyone whom you personally disagree with in that fashion.
    �
    Says the man who is one of the quickest to reach for the troll flag. 21 on just the first page of your comment history at the moment. Of course, you receive even more than you give. Which should also be a clue ; )

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Says the man who is one of the quickest to reach for the troll flag. 21 on just the first page of your comment history at the moment.”

    Here is but a sample of the comments I believe are worthy of the “Troll” designation. I would say that level-headed people would think the following statements are based on raw emotion and are irrational. Perhaps you think different. And, thanks for keeping track of that number. Not weird in the least!

    –Taylor won’t name the Jew. He’s just as useless as Murray the Moron or Murron. Problem is Jews are smarter and use money & influence to manipulate whites. Whites Built vs White Guilt.

    –The US is a soft military dictatorship. The military couldn’t account for $2 Trillion on 9/10/2001 as Rumsfeld announced on TV. Today, they can’t account for over $20 Trillion. Where did that currency go? How much went to Israel? 911 happened to cover up their theft by killing the Navy investigators stationed at the pentagon who were looking into the situation. Their offices were the direct hit. Their data backup site in building 7 was destroyed to get rid of evidence.

    –Sandi Morris is also a mudshark, like many collegiate+ female athletes. The best move is to keep your daughter out of collegiate sports entirely.

    –The best ways to limit Jewish power would be first, to make dual citizenship a disqualifier for every government job from teacher to mailman to politician. Second to enforce ethnic quotas.

    –Thank God we defeated Hitler! Can you imagine living in a world of open borders, credit card usury, government-approved riots, sleight-of-hand tricks by a (((central banking cabal))), no freedom of speech and grooming children? Where your race is demonized for its evil, unforgivable achievements, culture and traditions?

    –The first time Enlightenment thinkers got into government, they immediately committed a genocide of Catholics in the Vendee. These thinkers are the source of liberalism that needs to be purged.

    “Of course, you receive even more than you give. Which should also be a clue ; )”

    That I am on the right track regarding the pursuit of knowledge and truth. Thanks for your endorsement!

    •ï¿½Replies: @res
    @Corvinus


    And, thanks for keeping track of that number. Not weird in the least!
    �
    It is trivial to go to your commenter page and search for "Troll: Corvinus" Note that can result in an undercount ; )

    As for the rest of your comment, thanks for the chuckle. I think you have passed the event horizon of the Corvinus singularity--parody is indistinguishable from the real thing.
  • RogerL says:
    June 29, 2021 at 9:12 pm GMT •ï¿½900 Words

    Several people asked about defending yourself from the cancel culture.

    This book is a useful starting point.
    Unassailable: Defend Yourself From Deplatform Attacks, Cancel Culture & Other Online Disasters
    by Mark E Jeftovic
    http://www.amazon.com/Unassailable-Protect-Yourself-Deplatform-Disasters/dp/1999285212/

    The book’s focus is on people making their living putting content on the internet. However it has some application to everybody using the internet.

    Its focus is on protecting access to your internet resources. For example, a key point is, are you the legal owner of your domain name? Is your main email address based on that domain name, or do you use your email address at the whim of some globalist corporation that caters to the deep state?

    While a hosting service can still dump you if you own these, at least you could move them to a different hosting service. If you don’t own them, then its easy for the cancel culture to pressure the corporation, which does own them, to take them away from you.

    The book doesn’t address issues such as the cancel culture smearing you and getting you fired. Its one thing to be smeared, its another thing to be smeared after you’ve lost access to your internet related resources.

    ~
    The book is only 189 pages long, so its more of an overview than an how-to-do-it book. Still, the author makes a lot of recommendations on who to use, and who to avoid, when making arrangements for the resources you use.

    Given how many businesses and people who have been deplatformed in the last year, these recommendations are worth a lot more than the cost of the book. To put it another way, the author shares insight into who is and isn’t likely to burn their customers, when pressured by the cancel culture.

    About half the book is on the concepts, which will be useful for most people. The deep state, thru the cancel culture, is basically conducting hybrid warfare against people objecting to the billionaire backed narrative. Most people aren’t used to thinking of vulnerabilities, fallback positions, and recovery options in a warfare context, and its not something you want to learn thru trial and error.

    This books walks the reader thru the issues, and then thru the options. Then you can decide what is appropriate or feasible for your circumstances.

    To give you an idea of my personal priorities, I can’t afford to upgrade to something newer than windows XP, but I own my domain name and email address, and my data is thoroughly backed up.

    I’ve been writing about 3 pages a day for several decades now. If I lost that, it couldn’t ever be replaced. Most pictures people keep can’t be replaced.

    ~
    The book doesn’t discuss disaster recovery scenarios. There are natural disasters like floods, and human disasters like your computer being confiscated. Its good to think these thru ahead of time, and walk thru each step and the resources needed to accomplish that step.

    There are 2 separate categories of info: historical data like pictures, and data you need to restore the technical resources you use every day.

    For instance, if all of your computers and phones were confiscated (and backup devices near the computer), and then a couple days later your hosting service dumped you, then how would you get back up and going again?

    Some people have said that they are too small and insignificant for anybody to pay attention to. In an age where scapegoats are manufactured, I don’t think that is a safe attitude anymore.

    Part of my plan is having a backup on a USB device which can be plugged into any computer. In that backup are key facts in a TXT file, which can be viewed in any text editor, which I need for recovering after a computer disaster.

    What would you do if the first backup turned out to be bad media, and then somebody spilled coffee on the second backup? The saying about trouble coming in 3’s is based on the fact the first trouble increases stress and chaos, which increases the chances of more mistakes and accidents.

    For most people a reasonable compromise is a set of 3 backup media, and using them on a rotating schedule. Meaning the first backup goes on device A, the next on device B, the next on device C, and then the next backup is put on device A. So all 3 devices have a fairly recent backup, and if only 1 device was usable for restoring the data, then at least it would be a fairly recent backup.

    Its nice if the backup media are big enough to hold several backups, so if you backed up a corrupted file, then maybe in an older backup the file was still usable.

    ~
    The book doesn’t cover anonymous access to the internet. I figure this is like waving a flag asking the government to investigate you.

    I’m not organizing protests, or advocating assault or property destruction, and since I’m disabled I can’t be fired. So I figure its better for me to be reasonably open about what I do and say.

    If I had a job, then it would be different story because I criticize a lot of the sacred cows in the US, and would be vulnerable to the cancel culture.

    For about 30 years my go-to resource for computer and internet security is http://www.pcmag.com

  • @A123
    @Triteleia Laxa


    You’d be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.
    �
    You would be better saying France & Germany. Muslims have penetrated the top levels of government and are pushing for open borders. I thought France was moving towards reality, but the recent elections indictate otherwise.

    Italy is coming to terms with the "Muslim Problem" (1)

    If parliamentary elections were held in Italy now, the national conservative and Eurosceptic Brothers of Italy (FdI) would end up in second behind, the anti-immigration Lega Nord. This follows from a survey of electoral preferences conducted by SWG. Currently, 20.1 percent of voters would vote for the Brothers of Italy party, while Lega Nord has the support of 21.4 percent of Italians.
    �
    The current Italian government is likely to fail in the near future resulting in a new round of elections.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/article/article/voter-preference-for-anti-immigration-parties-in-italy-is-rising

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    Muslims have penetrated the top levels of government and are pushing for open borders.

    My experience of Muslims is that they tend to be enthusiastic about further immigration from wherever they came from. They also often visibly swell with pride and ambition at the idea that the number of Muslims in their vicinity is growing; but they are a minority voice with minority influence.

  • A123 says: •ï¿½Website
    June 29, 2021 at 8:26 pm GMT •ï¿½200 Words
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    Very few countries allow mass immigration. Even fewer allow it without substantial national considerations. It is this tiny group that Israel is not in. There's nothing special about not being in a tiny group. Israel is rather more ordinary than Germany or Italy.

    You'd be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.

    Replies: @iffen, @A123

    You’d be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.

    You would be better saying France & Germany. Muslims have penetrated the top levels of government and are pushing for open borders. I thought France was moving towards reality, but the recent elections indictate otherwise.

    Italy is coming to terms with the “Muslim Problem” (1)

    If parliamentary elections were held in Italy now, the national conservative and Eurosceptic Brothers of Italy (FdI) would end up in second behind, the anti-immigration Lega Nord. This follows from a survey of electoral preferences conducted by SWG. Currently, 20.1 percent of voters would vote for the Brothers of Italy party, while Lega Nord has the support of 21.4 percent of Italians.

    The current Italian government is likely to fail in the near future resulting in a new round of elections.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/article/article/voter-preference-for-anti-immigration-parties-in-italy-is-rising

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @A123


    Muslims have penetrated the top levels of government and are pushing for open borders.
    �
    My experience of Muslims is that they tend to be enthusiastic about further immigration from wherever they came from. They also often visibly swell with pride and ambition at the idea that the number of Muslims in their vicinity is growing; but they are a minority voice with minority influence.
  • res says:
    June 29, 2021 at 6:10 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @Corvinus
    @YetAnotherAnon

    “That’s obvious, I presume some are working for the other side, whether officially or unofficiallyâ€

    You have an active imagination.

    “The agents/opposition/whatever won’t be Coronavirus-type trolls“

    It’s much easier for you to characterize anyone whom you personally disagree with in that fashion.

    Replies: @res

    It’s much easier for you to characterize anyone whom you personally disagree with in that fashion.

    Says the man who is one of the quickest to reach for the troll flag. 21 on just the first page of your comment history at the moment. Of course, you receive even more than you give. Which should also be a clue ; )

    •ï¿½Replies: @Corvinus
    @res

    "Says the man who is one of the quickest to reach for the troll flag. 21 on just the first page of your comment history at the moment."

    Here is but a sample of the comments I believe are worthy of the "Troll" designation. I would say that level-headed people would think the following statements are based on raw emotion and are irrational. Perhaps you think different. And, thanks for keeping track of that number. Not weird in the least!

    --Taylor won’t name the Jew. He’s just as useless as Murray the Moron or Murron. Problem is Jews are smarter and use money & influence to manipulate whites. Whites Built vs White Guilt.

    --The US is a soft military dictatorship. The military couldn’t account for $2 Trillion on 9/10/2001 as Rumsfeld announced on TV. Today, they can’t account for over $20 Trillion. Where did that currency go? How much went to Israel? 911 happened to cover up their theft by killing the Navy investigators stationed at the pentagon who were looking into the situation. Their offices were the direct hit. Their data backup site in building 7 was destroyed to get rid of evidence.

    --Sandi Morris is also a mudshark, like many collegiate+ female athletes. The best move is to keep your daughter out of collegiate sports entirely.

    --The best ways to limit Jewish power would be first, to make dual citizenship a disqualifier for every government job from teacher to mailman to politician. Second to enforce ethnic quotas.

    --Thank God we defeated Hitler! Can you imagine living in a world of open borders, credit card usury, government-approved riots, sleight-of-hand tricks by a (((central banking cabal))), no freedom of speech and grooming children? Where your race is demonized for its evil, unforgivable achievements, culture and traditions?

    --The first time Enlightenment thinkers got into government, they immediately committed a genocide of Catholics in the Vendee. These thinkers are the source of liberalism that needs to be purged.

    "Of course, you receive even more than you give. Which should also be a clue ; )"

    That I am on the right track regarding the pursuit of knowledge and truth. Thanks for your endorsement!

    Replies: @res
  • @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    You’d be better off asking

    I think that I'm better off asking why it is that for every Stephen Miller in the U. S. there seem to be 10,000 Bret Stephenses. :)

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    We’ll get to that. First, let’s answer my question.

    You’d be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.

    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    We’ll get to that.

    We'll see.

    I will answer your question.

    First I don't accept your presentation of what they are thinking.

    Italian, German, American, British, etc. politicians don't think in those terms anymore. To the core they are mostly opportunists, blank slaters and effective altruists and as always handmaids to capitalists, in this case globalists. They have no more concern for traditional Italians, Germans, Americans, Brits, etc. than you do. As to why they think that way, I think that we need to go back to the Enlightenment. Of course, emancipation of the Jews was a part of the Enlightenment so I have done the heavy lifting part of finding the Jew.

    So let's see how you do with answering my question. Why are there 10,000 Bret Stephenses for every Stephen Miller in the U. S.?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom
  • @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    Very few countries allow mass immigration. Even fewer allow it without substantial national considerations. It is this tiny group that Israel is not in. There's nothing special about not being in a tiny group. Israel is rather more ordinary than Germany or Italy.

    You'd be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.

    Replies: @iffen, @A123

    You’d be better off asking

    I think that I’m better off asking why it is that for every Stephen Miller in the U. S. there seem to be 10,000 Bret Stephenses. 🙂

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    We'll get to that. First, let's answer my question.

    You’d be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.

    Replies: @iffen
  • @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    At first I thought that the JQ would be under the Minority Populations label then I realized that that would definitely not work. Jews are a unique minority and separate from all the rest, They cannot be subsumed under minorities. They have their own nation state with strict immigration controls and a robust nationalism while the rest of us have to contend with open borders and a hounded and vilified nationalism. The only rationale that occurs to me is: we are special and you are not.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    Very few countries allow mass immigration. Even fewer allow it without substantial national considerations. It is this tiny group that Israel is not in. There’s nothing special about not being in a tiny group. Israel is rather more ordinary than Germany or Italy.

    You’d be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.

    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    You’d be better off asking

    I think that I'm better off asking why it is that for every Stephen Miller in the U. S. there seem to be 10,000 Bret Stephenses. :)

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    , @A123
    @Triteleia Laxa


    You’d be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.
    �
    You would be better saying France & Germany. Muslims have penetrated the top levels of government and are pushing for open borders. I thought France was moving towards reality, but the recent elections indictate otherwise.

    Italy is coming to terms with the "Muslim Problem" (1)

    If parliamentary elections were held in Italy now, the national conservative and Eurosceptic Brothers of Italy (FdI) would end up in second behind, the anti-immigration Lega Nord. This follows from a survey of electoral preferences conducted by SWG. Currently, 20.1 percent of voters would vote for the Brothers of Italy party, while Lega Nord has the support of 21.4 percent of Italians.
    �
    The current Italian government is likely to fail in the near future resulting in a new round of elections.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/article/article/voter-preference-for-anti-immigration-parties-in-italy-is-rising

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  • iffen says:
    June 29, 2021 at 4:51 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    Yes, as I summarise here:

    https://www.unz.com/article/critical-race-theory-as-a-jewish-intellectual-weapon/#comment-4746311

    Replies: @iffen

    At first I thought that the JQ would be under the Minority Populations label then I realized that that would definitely not work. Jews are a unique minority and separate from all the rest, They cannot be subsumed under minorities. They have their own nation state with strict immigration controls and a robust nationalism while the rest of us have to contend with open borders and a hounded and vilified nationalism. The only rationale that occurs to me is: we are special and you are not.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    Very few countries allow mass immigration. Even fewer allow it without substantial national considerations. It is this tiny group that Israel is not in. There's nothing special about not being in a tiny group. Israel is rather more ordinary than Germany or Italy.

    You'd be better off asking what is it with the Italian and German elites that makes them think that they, and their people, are so special, that they can disregard centuries of history, and try to sustain a liberal polity based off diversity, instead of coherence.

    Replies: @iffen, @A123
  • @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I must be a little too dense to get what you are suggesting. Are you saying that we can/should discuss Jews under all the categories? There are no categories where we shouldn't be finding the Jew(s)?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    At first I thought that the JQ would be under the Minority Populations label then I realized that that would definitely not work. Jews are a unique minority and separate from all the rest, They cannot be subsumed under minorities. They have their own nation state with strict immigration controls and a robust nationalism while the rest of us have to contend with open borders and a hounded and vilified nationalism. The only rationale that occurs to me is: we are special and you are not.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  • @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    Just pick one of those topics, work out if you are for or against more or less of it, then, whatever binary you don't pick, put the Jews on. Easy!

    Replies: @iffen

    I must be a little too dense to get what you are suggesting. Are you saying that we can/should discuss Jews under all the categories? There are no categories where we shouldn’t be finding the Jew(s)?

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    Yes, as I summarise here:

    https://www.unz.com/article/critical-race-theory-as-a-jewish-intellectual-weapon/#comment-4746311

    Replies: @iffen
  • @iffen
    @Dissident

    --Jews

    After all this is still TUR.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    Just pick one of those topics, work out if you are for or against more or less of it, then, whatever binary you don’t pick, put the Jews on. Easy!

    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I must be a little too dense to get what you are suggesting. Are you saying that we can/should discuss Jews under all the categories? There are no categories where we shouldn't be finding the Jew(s)?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  • @iffen
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    concise assessment of historic Nazi motivations, actions, and outcomes has yet to be rebutted by Dissident, nor by original commenter Jack D, whom I addressed in that thread.

    You should consider the possibility that you don't know what rebutted means.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    You should consider the possibility that you don’t know what rebutted means.

    Here are some synonyms for rebut :

    deny, contradict, controvert, repudiate, counter, attempt to refute, attempt to discredit

    Those commenters’ offered non sequitur objections barely even count as attempts to discredit my cited assessment.

  • RogerL says:

    I didn’t understand the silent majority in the 60’s, I don’t understand their silence in the face of severe persecution from the woke face of the deep state, and I don’t understand the silence about doing something to continue this group.

    There is a management theory that you can whack 5% of a group, without triggering insurrection. However, if you do this 14 times, then only 48.8% of the group is left – less than half of the original group. Currently there doesn’t seem any end in sight to the slow pogrom against the silent majority.

    To me, this lack of action seems suicidal, but overall the silent majority doesn’t seem to have a death wish. So I’m back to not understanding the lack of action.

    I really wish somebody would help me out here.

    ~
    I wonder if an inclination towards stewardship is in part genetically based. I’ve always been inclined to take action to shift things in a more constructive direction.

    Regardless of that, genetic inclination can be overcome. The silent majority needs to be woken up and encouraged to become active stewards for their culture and future.

    ~
    As the billionaires chop society up into hash using dozens of divide-and-conquer wedges, I’ve been trying to figure out where I fit into all of this.

    I share some of the core values of the silent majority such as a work ethic, honesty, respect, not butting into the private lives of other people, and working hard to support families and raise healthy, moral children.

    However, aligning myself with a demographic, which isn’t resisting the pogrom against them, seems like a poor choice.

    It would be a better choice, if the silent majority would wake up, and stop being silent. Unfortunately, nobody seems to understand why they are silent. Until this is understood, the efforts to wake them up are unlikely to be successful.

    I really wish somebody would help me out here with increased understanding.

  • iffen says:
    @Barbarossa
    @V. K. Ovelund

    That basic line of thought is one that has struck me as well.
    To me it seems that a compelling case could be made against things like vaccines and other advanced medical innovations for increasing populations in an unsustainable way which does not necessarily lead to greater human fulfillment projected into the long term.
    It has always been striking to me that fully formed and functional societies do not require large population bases. Examples would be the Italian or Greek City States which had citizenry sometimes numbering only in the tens of thousands, yet having all the attributes of well rounded civilization.

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale. I'm convinced that as institutions increase in size they become less humane and less responsive to real human needs. It seems to me that there is perhaps an ideal organic scale for human societies which has been short circuited by technology, especially the greatly increased mobility of the 20th century.

    Beyond the eugenic biological argument I think there is an underlying philosophical change in one's outlook on life when health, comfort, and risk aversion are the norms. It seems to me that a higher danger/ risk environment leads to potentially more of a "Carpe Diem" attitude in life. I am really disheartened at the flaccid listlessness and lack of drive in many of the youngest generation coming up. It seems far worse than when I was even growing up, (which was not that long ago). I seems to come from an overprotective and over-structured environment choking off the drive for initiative and exploration. This is even seen in the many instances of younger generations being more hostile to things like free speech and more accepting of coercive political programs.


    It seems to me that life may have had a tad more urgency when it was not uncommon for otherwise healthy young people to be struck down by accident or disease. This doesn't seem to be an entirely bad thing to me since I don't think that seeking the greatest comfort is our highest goal in life. Suffering has value too.

    As you allude though, both yourself and myself have benefited from modern medicine, so this line of argument may be considered disingenuous by some. However, I have a relatively dangerous line of work personally, and having come within striking distance of biting the dust a couple times have found that it's only made me more set on living my life without moral compromise. My kids have a relatively "dangerous" old school upbringing too, living in the middle of nowhere, so we'll see what results that produces.

    I am personally opposed to the death penalty, although I understand your line of reasoning. My objection is more theological in nature as I don't think that we as humans have a right to kill another human in cold blood, even under the auspices of the state. That should be reserved for God alone. Even in cases of the seemingly irredeemable, it seems that the possibility for repentance must remain.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @iffen, @iffen

    even under the auspices of the state.

    It doesn’t make a lot of sense to sit here and say that we believe that the government is oppressive and malevolent while not raising any objection to giving it the power of capital punishment. I guess I’m just not ready to storm the Bastille. Yet.

  • @Dissident
    @Ron Unz

    Thank you, Mr. Unz, for creating the new open thread for those of us privileged to be "existing members of the AE community".

    As can clearly be seen, there have already been a number of different, distinct topics already discussed in this thread, and it can only be expected that the number of topics that will be covered going forward will expand. In consideration of this and how unwieldy such a large thread covering so many completely different, often unrelated topics can be, I would like to suggest the following, assuming it could be done without placing undue burden on you.

    Create several different topic/category-specific threads, plus one miscellaneous thread as a catch-all for anything that does not fit under any of the specific ones. The topics would presumably be those that have been the most frequent at AE's blog. The following is a suggestion for some fairly broad categories:
    - Electoral and Other Domestic Politics, Policy and Concerns
    - Immigration and Foreign Policy
    - Economy and Trade
    - Minority Populations (for all discussion concerning various racial, ethnic, national or religious minorities and their relation to the majority population)
    - Sexuality, Fertility, Family Formation, and Child-Rearing
    - Culture and Religion

    Some of the above could perhaps be merged, while others could perhaps be further split. I have no idea of what the relative costs to you are of creating and maintaining more threads vs. fewer. Nor do I have any idea how difficult or complicated implementing such an idea at all might be for you. If at all formidable, then, let me reiterate, I would not expect you to take any such burden upon yourself. If, however, creating at least a few separate threads would not be too difficult, then doing so would be much appreciated, not only by myself but, I am sure, others as well.

    Replies: @iffen

    –Jews

    After all this is still TUR.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @iffen

    Just pick one of those topics, work out if you are for or against more or less of it, then, whatever binary you don't pick, put the Jews on. Easy!

    Replies: @iffen
  • @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Almost Missouri

    A.M., thank you and V. K. Ovelund for your gallant defense of me as a commenter in general—I appreciate the sentiments.

    Background on commenter Dissident’s off-topic attack on me:

    I have taken to objecting, when it comes up, to pedophile Dissident’s ongoing NAMBLA nonce musings and catamite portrait posts. Dissident is not happy about this.

    Here’s his latest obsessive-compulsive post in that onanistic vein:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/anti-beautyism/#comment-4748647 (#277)

    I get a sputtering mention under the MORE tag, LOL

    Is the malignant audacity of a Hitler fanboy to assume some imagined perch as a self-anointed moral arbiter and avenger of some evil that is entirely a figment of his fevered imagination going to be further indulged?

    Returning, tangentially, to the decidedly indelicate sentiment that zundel referenced: a giant f[–]k you. As repellent as I generally find such vulgarity…
    �
    Links to Dissident's (typically bizarre) reply to my first comment telling him to desist his perverse posts, and copious search results of the word “boy†in Dissident's comment history:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-msm-tries-to-explain-the-racial-wreckening-on-the-roads/#comment-4737666 (#40)

    As for the past “genocide†topic in question, my concise assessment of historic Nazi motivations, actions, and outcomes has yet to be rebutted by Dissident, nor by original commenter Jack D, whom I addressed in that thread.

    Replies: @iffen, @Dissident

    concise assessment of historic Nazi motivations, actions, and outcomes has yet to be rebutted by Dissident, nor by original commenter Jack D, whom I addressed in that thread.

    You should consider the possibility that you don’t know what rebutted means.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @iffen


    You should consider the possibility that you don’t know what rebutted means.
    �
    Here are some synonyms for rebut :

    deny, contradict, controvert, repudiate, counter, attempt to refute, attempt to discredit
    �
    Those commenters’ offered non sequitur objections barely even count as attempts to discredit my cited assessment.
  • @AaronB
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Dissident's people, which is Jews plus the majority of decent, intelligent Whites (and the decent, intelligent fraction of all races) certainly outnumber "your people" :)

    I don't think Dissident has anything to fear from the likes of you lol. But your threats are cute :)

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Dissident’s people, which is Jews plus the majority of decent, intelligent Whites (and the decent, intelligent fraction of all races) certainly outnumber “your people†🙂

    Hmm. Are all those people proud pedophiles?

    You may want to familiarize yourself with Dissident’s comment history before calling him “your people”. Unless you are already aware, and share his proclivities. ðŸ™

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-msm-tries-to-explain-the-racial-wreckening-on-the-roads/#comment-4737666

  • @V. K. Ovelund
    @Dissident

    You and I are simply enemies. How high you are willing to escalate the conflict between your people and mine is up to you; but the conflict, which has gone poorly for my people, will go even worse for yours if you persist. We outnumber you, and while in several respects your people bring more human capital per capita than do mine, the difference will not be enough.

    I suggest that you stop escalating while you still can.

    The comment of Jenner Ickham Errican to which you object is entirely reasonable. You can only make it out to be unreasonable by neuroticism combined with typically Talmudic contortions. Of course, the contortions hardly bother you because, as the Talmud teaches, you do not even believe that Jenner and I have proper souls.

    You are why I am an anti-Semite. If anti-Semitism is what you want, you're doing great. I think you're a total jerk.

    What is wrong with you? Why can't you just act a little more like Ron Unz? If you did, this entire conflict would just go away.

    Replies: @AaronB, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Thank you, V. K. Here’s my response (should it be approved) to Almost Missouri which explains why commenter Dissident is in a hysterical tizzy upon seeing my particular handle:

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/an-age-when-vibrators-are-sold-on-the-high-street/#comment-4749565

  • @Almost Missouri
    @Dissident


    It may interest you to know that the individual whose comment endorsing you is seen in the screenshot you posted happens to be an unabashed defender of the Nazi genocide.
    �
    I think that's a mischaracterization. If you read the original in context, it is pretty clear he is saying something more like, "in an era of competing genocides, the Nazis (temporarily) won first place."

    But perhaps a more important question is, are these threads now a forum where we try to set up other blog commenters for future show trials? Include me out, as dfordoom says.

    Replies: @iffen, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    A.M., thank you and V. K. Ovelund for your gallant defense of me as a commenter in general—I appreciate the sentiments.

    Background on commenter Dissident’s off-topic attack on me:

    I have taken to objecting, when it comes up, to pedophile Dissident’s ongoing NAMBLA nonce musings and catamite portrait posts. Dissident is not happy about this.

    Here’s his latest obsessive-compulsive post in that onanistic vein:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/anti-beautyism/#comment-4748647 (#277)

    I get a sputtering mention under the MORE tag, LOL

    Is the malignant audacity of a Hitler fanboy to assume some imagined perch as a self-anointed moral arbiter and avenger of some evil that is entirely a figment of his fevered imagination going to be further indulged?

    Returning, tangentially, to the decidedly indelicate sentiment that zundel referenced: a giant f[–]k you. As repellent as I generally find such vulgarity…

    Links to Dissident’s (typically bizarre) reply to my first comment telling him to desist his perverse posts, and copious search results of the word “boy†in Dissident’s comment history:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-msm-tries-to-explain-the-racial-wreckening-on-the-roads/#comment-4737666 (#40)

    As for the past “genocide†topic in question, my concise assessment of historic Nazi motivations, actions, and outcomes has yet to be rebutted by Dissident, nor by original commenter Jack D, whom I addressed in that thread.

    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    concise assessment of historic Nazi motivations, actions, and outcomes has yet to be rebutted by Dissident, nor by original commenter Jack D, whom I addressed in that thread.

    You should consider the possibility that you don't know what rebutted means.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    , @Dissident
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    I have taken to objecting, when it comes up, to pedophile [sic] Dissident’s ongoing NAMBLA nonce [sic] musings and catamite portrait [sic] posts.
    �
    Yet again, you hurl the same incendiary epithets at me, and offer the same libelous, unsubstantiated, unfounded characterizations of my comments. As if through mere repetition, these somehow gain any substance or credibility. As I wrote in my response to your June 22nd recycling of the initial attack you had lashed-out at me with back in early March,

    I reiterate, once again, my confidence that no careful, fair review of the relevant parts of my commenting history, taken in their proper context, could reasonably be taken as supporting any of your assertions or insinuations. Quite the contrary, I would aver.
    �
    By now, I have posted a number of detailed rebuttals to the repeated libelous attacks upon me that Mr. Errican has now posted across several different threads. Perhaps my most concise response to-date is this one from June 25th. I would urge everyone to, at a bare minimum, carefully read through that comment of mine, in its entirety. Linked within it is a lengthy comment of mine from April that I would also place among the most essential for properly understanding me.

    Returning, for the moment, to my June 23rd rebuttal that I quoted from above, I noted in it that (to-date, and to the best of my awareness) neither Mr. Errican nor anyone else have,

    made even the faintest attempt at articulating any reasoned, substantive objection to or criticism of any of the images of boys, or sentiments, thoughts and views concerning boys that I have posted.
    �

    For those who may be unfamiliar with the term nonce that Mr. Errican has repeatedly used in libeling me, I offer the following, via Dictionary.com:

    British Dictionary definitions for nonce (2 of 2)

    nonce / (nÉ’ns) /
    noun
    1 prison slang a rapist or child molester; a sexual offender
    [...]
    [Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
    © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins]
    �
  • @AaronB
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Dissident's people, which is Jews plus the majority of decent, intelligent Whites (and the decent, intelligent fraction of all races) certainly outnumber "your people" :)

    I don't think Dissident has anything to fear from the likes of you lol. But your threats are cute :)

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Dissident’s people, which is Jews plus the majority of decent, intelligent Whites …

    You took the bait, thus making my point for me. Thanks. Such demonstrations of tactical flattery are quintessentially Jewish. Unfortunately, eventually, some gentiles start to notice.

    Decent and intelligent are to you nothing more than clever synonyms for pliable and gullible, of course.

    But who knows? Maybe you are winning, anyway. We shall see.

  • I haven’t been stopping by as much as I used to (as you might have guessed by the fact that I’m just seeing this 8 days after it was posted), but I’ve visited sporadically for a long time; since well before you were on Unz.

    So many bloggers I followed have called it quits. Inductivist, OneSTDV, Roissy/Heartiste, GucciLittlePiggy…

    You and Sailer were pretty much the only two left.

    Best of luck to you. I hope you and your family are on to bigger and better things.

    You should set up a donation page to accept some parting gifts.

    Barring that, please accept a heartfelt thank you for the many years of clear analysis and witty writing on interesting topics. God bless.

  • @Ron Unz
    I noticed that quite a number of the regular commenters here had decided to migrate over to the generic Open Thread.

    Using that isn't an ideal solution, especially since AE's auto-approval list doesn't apply there, adding to the moderation burden to the website.

    Therefore, I decided to split that Open Thread and move the AE community comments to a new one, located right here, that relies upon the approval list that AE had gradually built up. So please use this thread for your ongoing discussions:

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/ae-open-thread/

    This thread will be restricted to existing members of the AE community, and will not allow anonymous comments.

    Replies: @Dissident

    Thank you, Mr. Unz, for creating the new open thread for those of us privileged to be “existing members of the AE community”.

    As can clearly be seen, there have already been a number of different, distinct topics already discussed in this thread, and it can only be expected that the number of topics that will be covered going forward will expand. In consideration of this and how unwieldy such a large thread covering so many completely different, often unrelated topics can be, I would like to suggest the following, assuming it could be done without placing undue burden on you.

    Create several different topic/category-specific threads, plus one miscellaneous thread as a catch-all for anything that does not fit under any of the specific ones. The topics would presumably be those that have been the most frequent at AE’s blog. The following is a suggestion for some fairly broad categories:
    Electoral and Other Domestic Politics, Policy and Concerns
    Immigration and Foreign Policy
    Economy and Trade
    Minority Populations (for all discussion concerning various racial, ethnic, national or religious minorities and their relation to the majority population)
    Sexuality, Fertility, Family Formation, and Child-Rearing
    Culture and Religion

    Some of the above could perhaps be merged, while others could perhaps be further split. I have no idea of what the relative costs to you are of creating and maintaining more threads vs. fewer. Nor do I have any idea how difficult or complicated implementing such an idea at all might be for you. If at all formidable, then, let me reiterate, I would not expect you to take any such burden upon yourself. If, however, creating at least a few separate threads would not be too difficult, then doing so would be much appreciated, not only by myself but, I am sure, others as well.

    •ï¿½Agree: dfordoom
    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @Dissident

    --Jews

    After all this is still TUR.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  • @dfordoom
    @RogerL


    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.
    �
    At the moment I'm trying to transfer some of the recent very interesting discussions here to the Open Thread. I see this as a temporary thing. If we can keep this community of commenters going for a while on the Open Thread maybe we can buy ourselves a little time to think of a long term option. So if you go to the Open Thread you'll find several comments that I've left there that relate to our recent discussions.

    I know that the Open Thread is probably not a long-term solution but I'd encourage people to use it as a short-term refuge.

    So if you're interested the relevant One Thread posts are Numbers 285, 294 and 295. And @Iffen's comment, Number 287.

    Replies: @RogerL

    I appreciate your willingness to find creative ways forward.

    Unfortunately, now I can’t comment on that open thread.

    So I’m going to have to stick to responding to comments made in this thread.

  • @YetAnotherAnon
    @Intelligent Dasein

    "I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be."

    That's obvious, I presume some are working for the other side, whether officially or unofficially. Remember the German court case I linked to where out of 200 top NPD party leaders, 30 were state agents.

    The agents/opposition/whatever won't be Coronavirus-type trolls. More likely to be people accusing others of not being radical enough, stirring the pot. Or encouraging everyone to leave, who knows? Wilderness of mirrors.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “That’s obvious, I presume some are working for the other side, whether officially or unofficiallyâ€

    You have an active imagination.

    “The agents/opposition/whatever won’t be Coronavirus-type trolls“

    It’s much easier for you to characterize anyone whom you personally disagree with in that fashion.

    •ï¿½Replies: @res
    @Corvinus


    It’s much easier for you to characterize anyone whom you personally disagree with in that fashion.
    �
    Says the man who is one of the quickest to reach for the troll flag. 21 on just the first page of your comment history at the moment. Of course, you receive even more than you give. Which should also be a clue ; )

    Replies: @Corvinus
  • @V. K. Ovelund
    @Dissident

    You and I are simply enemies. How high you are willing to escalate the conflict between your people and mine is up to you; but the conflict, which has gone poorly for my people, will go even worse for yours if you persist. We outnumber you, and while in several respects your people bring more human capital per capita than do mine, the difference will not be enough.

    I suggest that you stop escalating while you still can.

    The comment of Jenner Ickham Errican to which you object is entirely reasonable. You can only make it out to be unreasonable by neuroticism combined with typically Talmudic contortions. Of course, the contortions hardly bother you because, as the Talmud teaches, you do not even believe that Jenner and I have proper souls.

    You are why I am an anti-Semite. If anti-Semitism is what you want, you're doing great. I think you're a total jerk.

    What is wrong with you? Why can't you just act a little more like Ron Unz? If you did, this entire conflict would just go away.

    Replies: @AaronB, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Dissident’s people, which is Jews plus the majority of decent, intelligent Whites (and the decent, intelligent fraction of all races) certainly outnumber “your people” 🙂

    I don’t think Dissident has anything to fear from the likes of you lol. But your threats are cute 🙂

    •ï¿½Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @AaronB


    Dissident’s people, which is Jews plus the majority of decent, intelligent Whites ...
    �
    You took the bait, thus making my point for me. Thanks. Such demonstrations of tactical flattery are quintessentially Jewish. Unfortunately, eventually, some gentiles start to notice.

    Decent and intelligent are to you nothing more than clever synonyms for pliable and gullible, of course.

    But who knows? Maybe you are winning, anyway. We shall see.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @AaronB


    Dissident’s people, which is Jews plus the majority of decent, intelligent Whites (and the decent, intelligent fraction of all races) certainly outnumber “your people†:)
    �
    Hmm. Are all those people proud pedophiles?

    You may want to familiarize yourself with Dissident’s comment history before calling him "your people". Unless you are already aware, and share his proclivities. :(

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-msm-tries-to-explain-the-racial-wreckening-on-the-roads/#comment-4737666
  • Ron Unz says:
    June 28, 2021 at 6:58 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words

    I noticed that quite a number of the regular commenters here had decided to migrate over to the generic Open Thread.

    Using that isn’t an ideal solution, especially since AE’s auto-approval list doesn’t apply there, adding to the moderation burden to the website.

    Therefore, I decided to split that Open Thread and move the AE community comments to a new one, located right here, that relies upon the approval list that AE had gradually built up. So please use this thread for your ongoing discussions:

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/ae-open-thread/

    This thread will be restricted to existing members of the AE community, and will not allow anonymous comments.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Dissident
    @Ron Unz

    Thank you, Mr. Unz, for creating the new open thread for those of us privileged to be "existing members of the AE community".

    As can clearly be seen, there have already been a number of different, distinct topics already discussed in this thread, and it can only be expected that the number of topics that will be covered going forward will expand. In consideration of this and how unwieldy such a large thread covering so many completely different, often unrelated topics can be, I would like to suggest the following, assuming it could be done without placing undue burden on you.

    Create several different topic/category-specific threads, plus one miscellaneous thread as a catch-all for anything that does not fit under any of the specific ones. The topics would presumably be those that have been the most frequent at AE's blog. The following is a suggestion for some fairly broad categories:
    - Electoral and Other Domestic Politics, Policy and Concerns
    - Immigration and Foreign Policy
    - Economy and Trade
    - Minority Populations (for all discussion concerning various racial, ethnic, national or religious minorities and their relation to the majority population)
    - Sexuality, Fertility, Family Formation, and Child-Rearing
    - Culture and Religion

    Some of the above could perhaps be merged, while others could perhaps be further split. I have no idea of what the relative costs to you are of creating and maintaining more threads vs. fewer. Nor do I have any idea how difficult or complicated implementing such an idea at all might be for you. If at all formidable, then, let me reiterate, I would not expect you to take any such burden upon yourself. If, however, creating at least a few separate threads would not be too difficult, then doing so would be much appreciated, not only by myself but, I am sure, others as well.

    Replies: @iffen
  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 28, 2021 at 6:00 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @iffen
    @Barbarossa

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale.

    It's likely above my paygrade to pull it all together, but I am convinced that bureaucracy is working to destroy us.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    It’s likely above my paygrade to pull it all together, but I am convinced that bureaucracy is working to destroy us.

    I agree. I think that’s just in the nature of bureaucracy. As bureaucracies get bigger they get more oppressive and more intrusive. Even if the bureaucracies comprise people who are honest and sincerely believe they’re working in the best interests of society they will still become more oppressive and more intrusive and will end by turning society into a totalitarian nightmare.

    Of course if those bureaucracies also include a significant number of people who are actively malevolent then you have a much bigger problem. But even a benign bureaucracy will be destructive.

    And the bigger the nation state the bigger the bureaucracy and the bigger the bureaucracy gets the more impossible it is to control.

  • @V. K. Ovelund
    @RogerL


    The bottom line is, do we want to be involved with anything that is involved with Andrew Anglin? For me, now that I’ve framed the question this way, the answer is NO.
    �
    For me, YES.

    I am not a big follower of Anglin's, but this is more a matter of style than substance. Aglin is a creative, clever fellow and a good writer. He often has interesting things to say—and, in his ideological lane, there are few who say it better.

    He's trying to save my people and civilization from the fate that otherwise awaits them. His prescriptions may be imperfect but whose prescriptions aren't? I like him. He's got the right enemies, too.

    I want nothing to do with any publisher who would cancel Andrew Anglin.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    I want nothing to do with any publisher who would cancel Andrew Anglin.

    After posting the above, I realized that I went too far.

    Ron Unz has repeatedly proved his fairness and reliability during these past�25 years, so I assume that if (for some reason) he discontinued Anglin, he’d have a good reason.

    [MORE]

    I think it unfortunate that a web site run by a conspicuously decent Jew like Ron should have become perhaps the U.S. Internet’s most influential anti-Semitic site. It’s not right. It’s not fair. I don’t like it and suppose that Ron might not like it, either, but what can be done? Ron’s site is the best place to post for an American who does not wish to trim his commentary whenever Jews are mentioned.

    Some readers will (understandably) find it hard to believe, but for my part I would rather talk about Jews less. The conversation keeps turning around to them, though. �lite U.S. Jews are so influential that it is hard to discuss many topics of public concern without mentioning the topics’ Jewish angle, yet one would still rather not mention the Jewish angle so much.

    If �lite Jews would stop suppressing mention of Jews every place else, it would be less necessary to talk about them here.

    This comment is wandering away from its original point regarding Anglin but, as long as it is wandering: I chanced to visit a familiar, national-chain, big-box retail store last week (Target, Home Depot, etc.; it is unnecessary to name the specific store). Sitting in my driver’s seat in the parking lot, I had a few minutes to spare and my laptop with me, so I connected to the store’s wifi and checked The Unz Review. No luck. The store’s wifi blocked Unz, reporting that visiting Unz was not allowed because Unz was a “hate” site.

    The whole conflict with the Jews is depressing. I want it to go away. All I ask is that more Jews understand what Ron Unz understands, or what Irving Berlin and Barry Farber understood, or what Mark Levin understands. I will never grasp what is so hard about that.

  • @Triteleia Laxa
    @YetAnotherAnon

    The effects are real, but the effects are small and just averages, except at the extremes.

    You need a maths problem solved or else it is the end of the universe. There is a man and a woman to pick from. Do you pick the man, or do you give them both a maths test to see who is better?

    The current system, of if the man does better, you decry sexism, is even more stupid; but the old traditionally sexist one, was wrong too.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    The old traditional society wasn’t that bad – a women could still be a mathematician or doctor if she wished. Our family doctor when I was a child was a woman who must have graduated in the late 1920s.

    But… she was unmarried and childless, as well as being a great doctor. If only that intelligence and compassion could have been passed down.

    I know an elderly former nurse who gave up the job on marriage. But her children are two doctors, a nurse and a senior civil servant. Men just can’t do that, we’re reliant on you lot to step up to the plate.

  • @dfordoom
    @RogerL


    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.
    �
    I already have a political blog on Blogger and it would be inconvenient and confusing for me to try to run two political blogs.

    Anyone who wants to follow my blog or leave comments is of course very welcome to do so. Comments are moderated (which in my opinion is absolutely essential) and my moderation policies are slightly stricter than AE's schoolmarm.

    If anyone wants to write a guest post they're welcome to do so. At the moment the blog is set up with myself as the only authorised poster and I don't want to fiddle with those settings at the moment (although I'd certainly consider it in the future) but if you email a guest post to me I'll publish it (under the pseudonym of your choice of course) as long as it passes muster with my schoolmarm.

    The blog mainly focuses on social issue stuff (the family, political correctness, censorship, marriage, sex, education, history, Wokeness in popular culture, the politicisation of science, etc). It has a modest following and a few decent regular commenters. I check it every day so the longest you'd ever have to wait for a comment to be approved would be 24 hours (I have to do things like sleep).

    Anyway that's what I personally can offer at the moment. If you missed the link to my blog last time here it is again -

    https://anotherpoliticallyincorrectblog.blogspot.com/

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Marty

    Your suggestions are good. Thank you for coordinating. I go to the Open Thread and to your blog.

  • @Dissident
    @Anonymous

    It may interest you to know that the individual whose comment endorsing you is seen in the screenshot you posted happens to be an unabashed defender of the Nazi genocide.

    (And not just of Jews; in the comment linked above, the estimable Mr. Errican acknowledges that,

    Hitler’s Wehrmacht also killed many, many Red Army (and civilian) goyim
    �
    , before immediately going on to posit,

    perhaps he was unimpressed with Slavic capitulation to Jewish revolutionary troublemaking.
    �
    )

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @V. K. Ovelund

    You and I are simply enemies. How high you are willing to escalate the conflict between your people and mine is up to you; but the conflict, which has gone poorly for my people, will go even worse for yours if you persist. We outnumber you, and while in several respects your people bring more human capital per capita than do mine, the difference will not be enough.

    I suggest that you stop escalating while you still can.

    The comment of Jenner Ickham Errican to which you object is entirely reasonable. You can only make it out to be unreasonable by neuroticism combined with typically Talmudic contortions. Of course, the contortions hardly bother you because, as the Talmud teaches, you do not even believe that Jenner and I have proper souls.

    You are why I am an anti-Semite. If anti-Semitism is what you want, you’re doing great. I think you’re a total jerk.

    What is wrong with you? Why can’t you just act a little more like Ron Unz? If you did, this entire conflict would just go away.

    •ï¿½Replies: @AaronB
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Dissident's people, which is Jews plus the majority of decent, intelligent Whites (and the decent, intelligent fraction of all races) certainly outnumber "your people" :)

    I don't think Dissident has anything to fear from the likes of you lol. But your threats are cute :)

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Jenner Ickham Errican
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Thank you, V. K. Here’s my response (should it be approved) to Almost Missouri which explains why commenter Dissident is in a hysterical tizzy upon seeing my particular handle:

    https://www.unz.com/anepigone/an-age-when-vibrators-are-sold-on-the-high-street/#comment-4749565
  • @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @John Johnson

    "One spoke of her dog as if it was her boyfriend. It was really sad. . . . "

    Funny you should mention that. Not too long ago in a small Southern city (which will remain nameless to protect the innocent), a single white woman in her mid-forties was observed by her neighbors as she had sex with her pit bull in her backyard in broad daylight. This happened in an older, but still solidly upper middle class neighborhood.

    She still has a court date.

    Replies: @iffen

    TMI

    Stop it!

  • @Barbarossa
    @V. K. Ovelund

    That basic line of thought is one that has struck me as well.
    To me it seems that a compelling case could be made against things like vaccines and other advanced medical innovations for increasing populations in an unsustainable way which does not necessarily lead to greater human fulfillment projected into the long term.
    It has always been striking to me that fully formed and functional societies do not require large population bases. Examples would be the Italian or Greek City States which had citizenry sometimes numbering only in the tens of thousands, yet having all the attributes of well rounded civilization.

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale. I'm convinced that as institutions increase in size they become less humane and less responsive to real human needs. It seems to me that there is perhaps an ideal organic scale for human societies which has been short circuited by technology, especially the greatly increased mobility of the 20th century.

    Beyond the eugenic biological argument I think there is an underlying philosophical change in one's outlook on life when health, comfort, and risk aversion are the norms. It seems to me that a higher danger/ risk environment leads to potentially more of a "Carpe Diem" attitude in life. I am really disheartened at the flaccid listlessness and lack of drive in many of the youngest generation coming up. It seems far worse than when I was even growing up, (which was not that long ago). I seems to come from an overprotective and over-structured environment choking off the drive for initiative and exploration. This is even seen in the many instances of younger generations being more hostile to things like free speech and more accepting of coercive political programs.


    It seems to me that life may have had a tad more urgency when it was not uncommon for otherwise healthy young people to be struck down by accident or disease. This doesn't seem to be an entirely bad thing to me since I don't think that seeking the greatest comfort is our highest goal in life. Suffering has value too.

    As you allude though, both yourself and myself have benefited from modern medicine, so this line of argument may be considered disingenuous by some. However, I have a relatively dangerous line of work personally, and having come within striking distance of biting the dust a couple times have found that it's only made me more set on living my life without moral compromise. My kids have a relatively "dangerous" old school upbringing too, living in the middle of nowhere, so we'll see what results that produces.

    I am personally opposed to the death penalty, although I understand your line of reasoning. My objection is more theological in nature as I don't think that we as humans have a right to kill another human in cold blood, even under the auspices of the state. That should be reserved for God alone. Even in cases of the seemingly irredeemable, it seems that the possibility for repentance must remain.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @iffen, @iffen

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale.

    It’s likely above my paygrade to pull it all together, but I am convinced that bureaucracy is working to destroy us.

    •ï¿½Replies: @dfordoom
    @iffen


    It’s likely above my paygrade to pull it all together, but I am convinced that bureaucracy is working to destroy us.
    �
    I agree. I think that's just in the nature of bureaucracy. As bureaucracies get bigger they get more oppressive and more intrusive. Even if the bureaucracies comprise people who are honest and sincerely believe they're working in the best interests of society they will still become more oppressive and more intrusive and will end by turning society into a totalitarian nightmare.

    Of course if those bureaucracies also include a significant number of people who are actively malevolent then you have a much bigger problem. But even a benign bureaucracy will be destructive.

    And the bigger the nation state the bigger the bureaucracy and the bigger the bureaucracy gets the more impossible it is to control.
  • @Barbarossa
    @Almost Missouri

    It's still up when I checked a couple minutes ago. I couldn't figure out at first how to get to the text of the article, but it came up when I hit the "print" button.

    Good news, the Wayback Machine is apparently not lost yet!

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    it came up when I hit the “print†button.

    Ah, good.

    Good news, the Wayback Machine is apparently not lost yet!

    Let us not celebrate prematurely. Perhaps that was just a fortunate oversight on the part of the digital book burners that a second copy of the text is hidden within the “print” function. After all, the full text used to appear automatically, and I suspect 99% of readers don’t have the persistence to root around for a copy hidden within the scripts.

  • @RogerL
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I would be easy for me to write a long post speculating on those issues. However its probably not appropriate, its definitely not germane, and we are running out of time.

    The bottom line is, do we want to be involved with anything that is involved with Andrew Anglin? For me, now that I've framed the question this way, the answer is NO.

    Where do we move to now?

    Who is going to set up the new blog?

    ~
    Occasionally I see a few articles on how the left is being sabotaged, but they don't reference a toolbox for coping with it. I haven't ever seen an article on how the right is being sabotaged. What a lot of innocents in the deep state wilderness.

    However this is a long-term issue to be dealt with, after we've moved to a location that won't expire in a couple of days.

    ~
    AE - exactly when is the plug going to be pulled on this group?

    Probably its best to reply in GMT time, to prevent confusion.

    I use this website for setting my watch, and checking what the GMT/UTC time is:
    www.time.gov

    Okay, I just outed myself - I live somewhere in North America. LOL

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund

    The bottom line is, do we want to be involved with anything that is involved with Andrew Anglin? For me, now that I’ve framed the question this way, the answer is NO.

    For me, YES.

    I am not a big follower of Anglin’s, but this is more a matter of style than substance. Aglin is a creative, clever fellow and a good writer. He often has interesting things to say—and, in his ideological lane, there are few who say it better.

    He’s trying to save my people and civilization from the fate that otherwise awaits them. His prescriptions may be imperfect but whose prescriptions aren’t? I like him. He’s got the right enemies, too.

    I want nothing to do with any publisher who would cancel Andrew Anglin.

    •ï¿½Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @V. K. Ovelund


    I want nothing to do with any publisher who would cancel Andrew Anglin.
    �
    After posting the above, I realized that I went too far.

    Ron Unz has repeatedly proved his fairness and reliability during these past�25 years, so I assume that if (for some reason) he discontinued Anglin, he'd have a good reason.

    I think it unfortunate that a web site run by a conspicuously decent Jew like Ron should have become perhaps the U.S. Internet's most influential anti-Semitic site. It's not right. It's not fair. I don't like it and suppose that Ron might not like it, either, but what can be done? Ron's site is the best place to post for an American who does not wish to trim his commentary whenever Jews are mentioned.

    Some readers will (understandably) find it hard to believe, but for my part I would rather talk about Jews less. The conversation keeps turning around to them, though. �lite U.S. Jews are so influential that it is hard to discuss many topics of public concern without mentioning the topics' Jewish angle, yet one would still rather not mention the Jewish angle so much.

    If �lite Jews would stop suppressing mention of Jews every place else, it would be less necessary to talk about them here.

    This comment is wandering away from its original point regarding Anglin but, as long as it is wandering: I chanced to visit a familiar, national-chain, big-box retail store last week (Target, Home Depot, etc.; it is unnecessary to name the specific store). Sitting in my driver's seat in the parking lot, I had a few minutes to spare and my laptop with me, so I connected to the store's wifi and checked The Unz Review. No luck. The store's wifi blocked Unz, reporting that visiting Unz was not allowed because Unz was a “hate” site.

    The whole conflict with the Jews is depressing. I want it to go away. All I ask is that more Jews understand what Ron Unz understands, or what Irving Berlin and Barry Farber understood, or what Mark Levin understands. I will never grasp what is so hard about that.
  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 28, 2021 at 2:15 pm GMT •ï¿½200 Words
    @Barbarossa
    @V. K. Ovelund

    That basic line of thought is one that has struck me as well.
    To me it seems that a compelling case could be made against things like vaccines and other advanced medical innovations for increasing populations in an unsustainable way which does not necessarily lead to greater human fulfillment projected into the long term.
    It has always been striking to me that fully formed and functional societies do not require large population bases. Examples would be the Italian or Greek City States which had citizenry sometimes numbering only in the tens of thousands, yet having all the attributes of well rounded civilization.

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale. I'm convinced that as institutions increase in size they become less humane and less responsive to real human needs. It seems to me that there is perhaps an ideal organic scale for human societies which has been short circuited by technology, especially the greatly increased mobility of the 20th century.

    Beyond the eugenic biological argument I think there is an underlying philosophical change in one's outlook on life when health, comfort, and risk aversion are the norms. It seems to me that a higher danger/ risk environment leads to potentially more of a "Carpe Diem" attitude in life. I am really disheartened at the flaccid listlessness and lack of drive in many of the youngest generation coming up. It seems far worse than when I was even growing up, (which was not that long ago). I seems to come from an overprotective and over-structured environment choking off the drive for initiative and exploration. This is even seen in the many instances of younger generations being more hostile to things like free speech and more accepting of coercive political programs.


    It seems to me that life may have had a tad more urgency when it was not uncommon for otherwise healthy young people to be struck down by accident or disease. This doesn't seem to be an entirely bad thing to me since I don't think that seeking the greatest comfort is our highest goal in life. Suffering has value too.

    As you allude though, both yourself and myself have benefited from modern medicine, so this line of argument may be considered disingenuous by some. However, I have a relatively dangerous line of work personally, and having come within striking distance of biting the dust a couple times have found that it's only made me more set on living my life without moral compromise. My kids have a relatively "dangerous" old school upbringing too, living in the middle of nowhere, so we'll see what results that produces.

    I am personally opposed to the death penalty, although I understand your line of reasoning. My objection is more theological in nature as I don't think that we as humans have a right to kill another human in cold blood, even under the auspices of the state. That should be reserved for God alone. Even in cases of the seemingly irredeemable, it seems that the possibility for repentance must remain.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @iffen, @iffen

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale. I’m convinced that as institutions increase in size they become less humane and less responsive to real human needs. It seems to me that there is perhaps an ideal organic scale for human societies which has been short circuited by technology, especially the greatly increased mobility of the 20th century.

    I agree. And that’s why I’m not as worried as some people about declining birth rates. It’s arguable that when you have nation states with populations numbered in the tens of millions (or in some cases hundreds of millions) it is inevitable that you end up with alienated atomised populations and regimes that are oppressive because they just can’t function any other way.

    In the long term it’s possible that much smaller populations might result in a more civilised healthy society. And this doesn’t have to be achieved by high mortality. Lower birth rates can achieve the same results much more humanely.

    Obviously smaller political units are also desirable but I have no idea how that can be achieved. But it’s the reason I quite like the idea of seeing countries like the UK breaking up.

    If you’re interested we could continue this discussion on the Open Thread.

  • @iffen
    @Almost Missouri

    I think that’s a mischaracterization.

    I went back a re-read and I think that you are doing more mischaracterization. He essentially said that Jews were responsible for the communist takeover of Russia and because of that they had it coming and deservedly so.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    He essentially said that Jews were responsible for the communist takeover of Russia

    Was there not a major Jewish contribution, indeed, perhaps the decisive contribution in personnel, ideology and capital, from Jews [yes, NAJALT] to the Bolshevik/Communist takeover of Russia?

    Did the Bolsheviks not practice bloody and widespread genocides before anyone had heard of Nazis?

    Did the Bolsheviks not explicitly plan to make their “revolution” global?

    Was Germany (and the rest of the West) not explicitly in the attack corridor for the Communist expansion?

    The Nazis decided to strike first rather than wait for the next stage of Bolshevism. This isn’t a secret or a retcon; it is what they explicitly said at the time. Was that the right thing to do? Apparently not. But in an age of genocide-or-be-genocided, one can see why they might go that route when faced with an existential threat. After all, it wasn’t just German-Russian thing or a Jewish-Gentile thing. The Turks had (successfully) genocided the Greeks and Armenians out of Anatolia, the British had successfully genocided the Boers out of power in South Africa. Arabs have long been genociding Berbers, Bantus have long genocided Twa, Indian tribes long genocided each other, etc., etc. Like slavery, genocide has been business-as-usual for most of history. Recently, we supposedly decided that we’re gonna stop doing that from now on, which doesn’t actually seem to be working out, except that the genocideers have gotten more suave in how they go about it.

    But again, the more pertinent question here is, are we now making these threads into places where we lodge the accusations and do the pre-work for future show trials against anonymous commenters?

    •ï¿½Agree: V. K. Ovelund
  • @Almost Missouri
    @Almost Missouri

    I see that the content in the link to the archive.org article that I cited has been wiped. Apparently the Left has finally carried out their threat censor hatefacts even from neutral platforms like the Wayback Machine. To complete my comment (which was referring to the 9th and 10th paragraphs of this classic), and so that Mr. Locklin's hilarious article will not perish from the earth, I am reproducing it below the "MORE" tag. His original article also had many internal hyperlinks (and humorously placed images), which I won't reproduce, partly because it would be very time consuming, and partly because I suspect that the content at the other end of those hyperlinks has also already been purged in the Left's digital book burning campaign.



    Monday, 05 April 2010

    The Case For Open Borders
    Foreign Replacements for American Women
    By Scott Locklin

    Most people on the Alternative Right are decidedly not in favor of our open-border policy in the United States. They complain of the program of race replacement, foreigners stealing our jeeeebs, committing crimes, and generally lowering the property values in the joint. I sympathize with these arguments, but, personally, I hope we make allowances for the kind of immigration I like to date. You see, I belong to an oppressed sexual minority: American men who prefer foreign women. There is power in naming things, and so I'll just come out and say it: I am an American xenosexual man.

    It took me a while to come to realize my sexual preference. It was never conscious until fairly recently, and I figure it's time for me to come out of the closet, so my xenosexual brothers won't feel alone. It isn't a realization that I'm particularly happy to have had, as it makes life in the Republic incredibly inconvenient. In my long and sordid career as a bachelor, the only women I have been able to maintain a romantic relationship with have been at least raised in other countries.

    I'm sure this statement is causing American female upper lips to distort into a snarl. "Oh, another insecure man who is intimidated by an empowered woman!" -- this is how it usually goes. This sentence captures, in essence, what is psychologically wrong with American women for a man of my sexual preference.

    First of all, the facts are wrong. If I were insecure, I wouldn't have written this. Also, the women I've been able to deal with for longer than a year or two had job titles like, "SAW gunner," "machine learning engineer," and "scientist." These are very likely to be considerably more "empowered" job titles than anyone reading this in a high moral dudgeon will ever achieve. If you disagree, and think your job is much more awesome than these, I suggest you take it up with the SAW gunner. Secondly, one of the excellent things about foreign women is they rarely try to cut your metaphorical testicles off with ridiculous shaming language. American women by contrast, don't seem capable of communication without bagging on some poor man. Being an unpleasant, confrontational, sarcastic grouch seems to have become a sort of gender duty of American women. The rest of the world sees that as bad manners. Finally, the dribbling self-entitlement and totalitarian-princess gall of it all. Why should anyone care if I won't date American women? It is simply my preference: as worthy of respect and approbation as the preference to not date any women. I count many American women as close friends, confidantes and family members. I love American women! I just don't want to date them.

    Other varieties of women don't get so upset about men not liking their kind so much. As a social experiment, I once told a beautiful and talented Russian girl I had a problem with depressing crazy drunkard Russian girls. She agreed with me that most Russian girls are crazy, depressing and drink too much, pointed out the good sides of Russians (hotness, passion, femininity), and noticed that she's actually not really so Russian: she was from a tribe in Russia known for its cheerfulness and moderation. This anecdote illustrates an important difference between domestic and imported females. When faced with an outcome they do not like, American woman will become disagreeable. The foreign woman will become more feminine and seductive; a tactic I have few powers to resist. Since I am not a masochist who enjoys being menaced by angry harridans with rolling pins, this causes me to like the imported models better. I know, I know, my sexual preference is weird and kind of hard to wrap your brain around, but I can't help it. Like many men who were afflicted with a non-standard sexual preference, I'm pretty sure I was born this way.

    While my preference is intensely emotional, being wrought in my own sense of extreme heterosexuality, I also look at it as intensely logical. I buy and sell for a living. American women are a bad investment. You see, I'm a very busy man: I'm trying to build a business, create American jobs and generate wealth to help bail us out of the horrible mess we are in. American women get upset when you're not paying attention to them, and do things like start an argument about where to put your goldfish. Foreign women do things like try to help when you are busy.

    Many American women are also wrapped up in status monkey games (muuuust get big house) and the consumer gerbil wheel. Even if I were to find an American woman who makes the kind of dough I do, she'd likely spend the pair of us into penury before I am able to hire anybody. Foreign women generally come from less prosperous nations, and so they're less interested in purchasing an enormous McMansion and stuffing it full of plastic tchotchkes along with a couple of neurotic crotch fruit. Foreign women believe in thrift, rather than conspicuous consumption.

    American women also tend to believe in deeply unattractive insanity like "gender as social construct feminism," astrology, socialism, putting unsightly tattoos all over their bodies, and moral relativism of all kinds. I have yet to figure out why anybody would contract any kind of alliance with a moral relativist. Foreign women have seen these bad ideas disproved on a daily basis in their lives in less civilized nations, so they believe in things like common sense. I know this probably seems incredibly selfish of me, and perhaps some people think I should be a good fellow and pay more attention to where I put my goldfish, but as a productive member of society, I feel it is my patriotic duty to do my bit to help solve the economic crisis. I figure the slouchy hipsters with nothing better to do can go argue with American women about their goldfish to keep them happy while I'm off doing useful work.

    American women have a weird relationship with sex. They're known the world over as loose women. Yet, sex with an American woman is a study in time-motion efficiency at best. Back in my academic days, I once taught an Italian grad student how to pick up girls on the internets: probably the only useful thing I ever taught anybody in an academic setting. Being Italian, he quickly became better at it than I was, but after his first couple of successes he came to my office with a troubled brow. "Scott, what is wrong with American women? I don't want to brag, but I am good at sex. These women, they don't come when I fuck them." It took considerable powers of persuasion to convince him that the average American female needs to be worked over with power tools, months of therapy, and various acts considered signs of deviant madness by the American Psychological Association 50 years ago, in order to experience authentic genital quakes with someone else present in the room.

    This isn't just the anecdotal evidence of a couple of science nerds sitting around the synchrotron, there have been scientific studies done on this subject. The vaginal orgasm is observably going away, both in the United States and Western Europe. There are certainly exceptions to all this, but the vaginal orgasm is so elusive among American females, it is widely considered to be a myth among the educated classes. Everywhere else in the world, it's considered the normal way of conducting business. I have no idea how this came about; ideas I've come up with include epigenetics, poisonous feminism, hormonal imbalances, outbreeding depression, and inability to relax. Some researchers have pointed out that a likely cause is improper sex education that focuses on the clitoris... Basically, American women jerk off too much to derive any pleasure from normal, or even heroic heterosexual, intercourse. A parsimonious explanation, somewhat borne out by my personal investigations into the subject.

    Apparently most American men don't mind that their snuggle bunnies might as well be doing their taxes while they drill for gold, or else they enjoy the manly hobby of weilding power tools even in the boudoir, or perhaps some enjoy dictating Tolstoy with the tips of their tongues every night. Well, that is their preference. While power tools and Tolstoy have their charms, I like the old fashioned kind of sex better, and the imported models are the ones dishing it out.

    And what of poise, style and feminine grace? Most of you Americans won't know what I am talking about here, because you haven't been around enough foreign women. American women do things like eat while they're walking down the boulevard. Foreign women know this is horrifically gauche, to say nothing of fattening, so they don't do it. Foreign women are too busy trying to balance a plate on their head to shove cupcakes in their mouths while they walk about.

    Fashion? Foreign women unashamedly wear dresses. American women wear clothing designed to disguise the fact that they are actually female. American women ... they do not sashay or glide like the old fashioned foreigners do: they gambol and gesticulate like something out of the ape cage at the zoo. When they're trying to be "feminine," an American woman will do something like deploy her decolletage like a couple of battleship cannons. While I guess there is something appealing about gratuitous baboon displays of secondary sexual characteristics, it's a rather crude gambit to my rarified xenosexual senses. A foreign woman can dangle her shoe at me with a naughty smirk, and I will forget all about the battleship cannons seated at the bar next to her. Granted, most American men seem to prefer to be bludgeoned with female battleship cannons; I know I'm the weird one here. Maybe the dress thing is atavistic , or maybe it's because I understand how fermentation works that I don't care for girls in pants. I guess most American men prefer that women wear the pants.

    The dimensions of modern American women are worth a mention. The average American woman is 5'4" and tips the scales at 164lbs with a 37" waist size. Being a squirrely little man of the exact average height and weight for an American male, I only have a 31" waist, and so, well, I have to admit, the average, um, "curvy" American woman is certainly of a size that I find rather intimidating. By my calculations, that puts the average American female at approximately 39 percent bodyfat. Normal would be something like 16 percent, yielding a surplus of 38 lbs of fat per woman. There are about 150 million American women, giving us a grand total of 5.7 billion pounds of unsightly excess lard. To get an idea of how obscene this is, 7lbs of fat are about equivalent in energy expenditure to a gallon of petrochemical fuel. Each Saturn-V rocket, the awe-inspiring monstrosities that hurled 1960s era Freemasons to the moon, contained only 960,000 gallons of fuel. Waving my hands over the stoichiometry, this means there is enough excess libido destroying pork butter on American womanhood to power 5900 or so manned moon missions. While American men may like their women on the chunky side, I consider it incredibly wasteful that all this high fructose corn syrup goes to expand female waistlines when it could be used to power space ships to the moon. No, no, I prefer the old fashioned kind of females who have bellies considerably smaller than my own; you know, like the foreign ones.

    Then there is the idea of physical fitness among American women. Foreign women define physical fitness as being slim and feminine. American women think it is OK to be as fat as they like, so long as they can run a marathon or go on grueling hikes in the woods. Well, that's OK I guess; physical fitness is important, but if you're carrying around 30lbs of lard, I'm still not going to find you as attractive as a skinny but lazy Romanian or Vietnamese woman. Since I'm trying to find a date, rather than looking for someone to plough my fields, serve as an emergency food supply, or staff a private army, the whole fitness thing isn't so important to me as the aesthetics of slender arms and waists.

    I'm pretty sure there is a hormonal component to the whole thing. Look, for example, at these American movie stars of yesteryear, Hedy Lamarr and Lillian Gish below. Beautiful, feminine, wholesome even, and dripping with estrogen. This is the kind of woman that appeals to xenosexuals like myself; they used to make them right here in America, back when Americans actually made things. Now we must make do with imports.

    By contrast we have Erin Anderson and Anna Paquin (technically Kiwi: humor me) below, rated 14 and 79 in this year's "Top 99 most desirable women" by Ask Men. They both have the hatchet jaws, neanderthal brow ridges and beady eyes of a male to female transsexual. These physical features are caused by male hormones like testosterone. What could be going on here? Phthalates? Birth control pills? Virilization through yoyo dieting? It is a long story how this works, but even kids notice that fat ladies often have mustaches. Could it be a side effect of female hypergamy as F. Roger Devlin and the notorious Roissy have posited? Meaning, do women who have sampled too many Vienna sausages on the peen chuckwagon develop some sort of endocrinological issues? Or perhaps because modern American women are encouraged to compete and fight like a man, their adrenal glands have released enough androgens to visibly change them. Think about that for a minute: American feminism might have changed women physically.

    I'm nothing like an endocrinologist, and I've never done the calculations to see if this could theoretically happen, but the adrenal glands do release testosterone, and the adrenals are used a lot more by disagreeable grouchy American women than feminine foreigners. American men have been looking pretty testosterone deficient in recent years; perhaps they are seeking out something they lack? By contrast, I have an endocrinological disorder cursing me with a high level of testosterone; it comes from my birth into the violent working classes and is exacerbated by my habit of eating too much red meat and lifting enormous barbells in the gym. As such, I don't care so much for the Popeye chin on the ladies. I like the ones with nice oval shaped faces and soft neonatal features, like Hedy Lamarr (who, by the way, was also a certifiable genius).

    [image]
    Numbers 14 and 73 most attractive women in the world according to dystopian universe of Ask Men

    The irreplaceable Roissy posted a sociological article about Kazakh perceptions of different nationalities of women that sums it up better than I ever could. Borat's description of American women:
    American woman is described in quite contradictory way. Most amazing is a negative estimation of her appearance. There are many variations on this topic: not well-groomed, not stylish, does not dress well, not fashionable clothes, not ironed shorts and T-shirt, sleepers, put on bare feet, elderly woman in shorts, emancipated woman, for whom it is not important how she looks, a girl without make-up, happy fatty woman, stout and shapeless person, a short hair-cut, a knapsack, waddling walk, tennis shoes, dentures, plain, manlike, unisex.

    Borat speaks the truth; no political correctness there, and Borat's women folk won't menace him with a rolling pin for noticing the obvious. "Not that there is anything wrong with that," as Seinfeld put it. Different kinds of men have different preferences and all that. If you like "stout and shapeless persons," all the more power to you.

    It doesn't matter to me where they're from. I don't discriminate against foreign women by race, color or creed: every variety of imported female I know of is better on average than the domestic kinds. Now that America consists of all sorts of racial types, you can no longer tell a foreign woman by an exotic complexion. But we xenosexual men will be able to tell. My F.O.B.-dar is so finely tuned, I can spot a Russian, Eritrean or Serb at 50 paces, and I'll know if a Korean in America was raised in Los Angeles or is from the old country long before she opens her mouth. They seem to do a decent job of finding me as well; perhaps they notice my surfeit of self-respect compared to other American men -- that's how I spot my xenosexual brothers.

    So, immigration haters, give a care to your less fortunate xenosexual brothers. Would you condemn us to a lifetime of loneliness, or force us into the arms of women we don't find attractive? I suspect American male xenosexuality might be a bigger phenomenon than was heretofore realized, so I encourage the lot of you to come out of the closet with me. I know Derb is on board. So are such notable conservatives as Fred Reed, and Roissy; even Mel Gibson -- men who have seen a bit of life, and know what they like. Open wide the gates!

    [image]
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

    [image]
    Not an American woman

    Post Scriptum: No American women were harmed in researching this essay, despite what they may say.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    It’s still up when I checked a couple minutes ago. I couldn’t figure out at first how to get to the text of the article, but it came up when I hit the “print” button.

    Good news, the Wayback Machine is apparently not lost yet!

    •ï¿½Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Barbarossa


    it came up when I hit the “print†button.
    �
    Ah, good.

    Good news, the Wayback Machine is apparently not lost yet!
    �
    Let us not celebrate prematurely. Perhaps that was just a fortunate oversight on the part of the digital book burners that a second copy of the text is hidden within the "print" function. After all, the full text used to appear automatically, and I suspect 99% of readers don't have the persistence to root around for a copy hidden within the scripts.
  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 28, 2021 at 2:04 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @RogerL
    I'm not sure if TUR is a good fit for this blog community anymore.

    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added. If you aren't familiar with them, read their commenters and compare them. This is on top of the comments in post #242 about the history of commenting on TUR. That post gave me a lot to think about, and it took a while to think thru the implications and adjust to them - adjusting to them took a lot of effort. This is the fastest I can do things.

    There are all kinds of reasons not to use blogger. However dfordoom says its quick and easy. Right now we need REALLY QUICK. Later on, if somebody finds a better blogging solution, then we could move there.

    ~
    Google is part of the upgrade treadmill mafia, where you upgrade, or die. So a few years ago they intentionally broke the last version of Firefox that supported windows XP, which is what my computer runs. In this light, its amazing how many websites I can still access, use, and make purchases on, without any problems at all. In general, I can still use most websites, except for the trendy sites and globalist sites - this alone says a lot.

    I will upgrade to new everything, after I get some money from the VA, which won't be anytime soon. Shortly the local library will reopen again (they have been excessive in their wokeness and screwing the not-privileged) and probably I could go there to post comments on blogger.

    There probably aren't many people, still running XP, who are interested in continuing this blog community, so overall this isn't a blocking issue to this community moving to blogger - REALLY SOON.

    ~
    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.

    Once the blog is setup, probably the person who set it up could delegate almost all of the work needed to sustain the blog. So setting it up isn't likely to be a major ongoing time commitment.

    The bottom line is that somebody, who isn't running XP, has to set up the new blog on blogger.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom, @dfordoom

    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.

    At the moment I’m trying to transfer some of the recent very interesting discussions here to the Open Thread. I see this as a temporary thing. If we can keep this community of commenters going for a while on the Open Thread maybe we can buy ourselves a little time to think of a long term option. So if you go to the Open Thread you’ll find several comments that I’ve left there that relate to our recent discussions.

    I know that the Open Thread is probably not a long-term solution but I’d encourage people to use it as a short-term refuge.

    So if you’re interested the relevant One Thread posts are Numbers 285, 294 and 295. And @Iffen’s comment, Number 287.

    •ï¿½Thanks: Barbarossa
    •ï¿½Replies: @RogerL
    @dfordoom

    I appreciate your willingness to find creative ways forward.

    Unfortunately, now I can't comment on that open thread.

    So I'm going to have to stick to responding to comments made in this thread.
  • @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom


    A lot of negative social change has in fact been driven purely by technology.
    �
    I completely agree with this and will push it to the next degree: negative social change has been driven even by medical technology.

    It is not easy to acknowledge that the world might be a better place if the modern medicine that has saved my life, my wife's life, and some of my children's lives did not exist, but unfortunately the message of Mouse Utopia has only confirmed personal observations. In an earlier, more tragic state, in which early death was a common fact of life, it would seem that the robust and the well rounded preferentially survived, with eugenic effect.

    I just went off on a tangent there, but can add little directly to your original point, which seems to me both correct and significant.

    Here is another, even more sharply divergent tangent: the death penalty is simpler, more traditional and less cruel than extended incarceration. Any crime that merits a prison sentence longer than ten years should probably again as aforetime be punished by the hangman's noose. (I would prefer to be hanged, at any rate, than to spend�20 years among muscular negro felons at the state penitentiary.)

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    That basic line of thought is one that has struck me as well.
    To me it seems that a compelling case could be made against things like vaccines and other advanced medical innovations for increasing populations in an unsustainable way which does not necessarily lead to greater human fulfillment projected into the long term.
    It has always been striking to me that fully formed and functional societies do not require large population bases. Examples would be the Italian or Greek City States which had citizenry sometimes numbering only in the tens of thousands, yet having all the attributes of well rounded civilization.

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale. I’m convinced that as institutions increase in size they become less humane and less responsive to real human needs. It seems to me that there is perhaps an ideal organic scale for human societies which has been short circuited by technology, especially the greatly increased mobility of the 20th century.

    Beyond the eugenic biological argument I think there is an underlying philosophical change in one’s outlook on life when health, comfort, and risk aversion are the norms. It seems to me that a higher danger/ risk environment leads to potentially more of a “Carpe Diem” attitude in life. I am really disheartened at the flaccid listlessness and lack of drive in many of the youngest generation coming up. It seems far worse than when I was even growing up, (which was not that long ago). I seems to come from an overprotective and over-structured environment choking off the drive for initiative and exploration. This is even seen in the many instances of younger generations being more hostile to things like free speech and more accepting of coercive political programs.

    It seems to me that life may have had a tad more urgency when it was not uncommon for otherwise healthy young people to be struck down by accident or disease. This doesn’t seem to be an entirely bad thing to me since I don’t think that seeking the greatest comfort is our highest goal in life. Suffering has value too.

    As you allude though, both yourself and myself have benefited from modern medicine, so this line of argument may be considered disingenuous by some. However, I have a relatively dangerous line of work personally, and having come within striking distance of biting the dust a couple times have found that it’s only made me more set on living my life without moral compromise. My kids have a relatively “dangerous” old school upbringing too, living in the middle of nowhere, so we’ll see what results that produces.

    I am personally opposed to the death penalty, although I understand your line of reasoning. My objection is more theological in nature as I don’t think that we as humans have a right to kill another human in cold blood, even under the auspices of the state. That should be reserved for God alone. Even in cases of the seemingly irredeemable, it seems that the possibility for repentance must remain.

    •ï¿½Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
    •ï¿½Replies: @dfordoom
    @Barbarossa


    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale. I’m convinced that as institutions increase in size they become less humane and less responsive to real human needs. It seems to me that there is perhaps an ideal organic scale for human societies which has been short circuited by technology, especially the greatly increased mobility of the 20th century.
    �
    I agree. And that's why I'm not as worried as some people about declining birth rates. It's arguable that when you have nation states with populations numbered in the tens of millions (or in some cases hundreds of millions) it is inevitable that you end up with alienated atomised populations and regimes that are oppressive because they just can't function any other way.

    In the long term it's possible that much smaller populations might result in a more civilised healthy society. And this doesn't have to be achieved by high mortality. Lower birth rates can achieve the same results much more humanely.

    Obviously smaller political units are also desirable but I have no idea how that can be achieved. But it's the reason I quite like the idea of seeing countries like the UK breaking up.

    If you're interested we could continue this discussion on the Open Thread.
    , @iffen
    @Barbarossa

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale.

    It's likely above my paygrade to pull it all together, but I am convinced that bureaucracy is working to destroy us.

    Replies: @dfordoom
    , @iffen
    @Barbarossa

    even under the auspices of the state.

    It doesn't make a lot of sense to sit here and say that we believe that the government is oppressive and malevolent while not raising any objection to giving it the power of capital punishment. I guess I'm just not ready to storm the Bastille. Yet.
  • @Almost Missouri
    @Triteleia Laxa


    You think the women in the Middle East, Africa and Asia are all totally orgasmic all of the time?
    �
    Hmm, I wrote, "leaving aside the clitoridectomal cultures", and the first thing you want to do is go headfirst into clitoridectomy climes.

    Are there any specific reasons you think the way you do?
    �
    Yes. As with many great scientific principles, it started as a personal observation, which I assumed was just something peculiar to me. But then I began hearing the same from others, and even alleged academic research. The fact that the Pome-Oz Axis is spamming up this thread with lots of comments to the effect of, "Why, of course it is totally natural for our women to have the electric grid plugged into their cooches!" is perhaps the final proof.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    I see that the content in the link to the archive.org article that I cited has been wiped. Apparently the Left has finally carried out their threat censor hatefacts even from neutral platforms like the Wayback Machine. To complete my comment (which was referring to the 9th and 10th paragraphs of this classic), and so that Mr. Locklin’s hilarious article will not perish from the earth, I am reproducing it below the “MORE” tag. His original article also had many internal hyperlinks (and humorously placed images), which I won’t reproduce, partly because it would be very time consuming, and partly because I suspect that the content at the other end of those hyperlinks has also already been purged in the Left’s digital book burning campaign.

    [MORE]

    Monday, 05 April 2010

    The Case For Open Borders
    Foreign Replacements for American Women
    By Scott Locklin

    Most people on the Alternative Right are decidedly not in favor of our open-border policy in the United States. They complain of the program of race replacement, foreigners stealing our jeeeebs, committing crimes, and generally lowering the property values in the joint. I sympathize with these arguments, but, personally, I hope we make allowances for the kind of immigration I like to date. You see, I belong to an oppressed sexual minority: American men who prefer foreign women. There is power in naming things, and so I’ll just come out and say it: I am an American xenosexual man.

    It took me a while to come to realize my sexual preference. It was never conscious until fairly recently, and I figure it’s time for me to come out of the closet, so my xenosexual brothers won’t feel alone. It isn’t a realization that I’m particularly happy to have had, as it makes life in the Republic incredibly inconvenient. In my long and sordid career as a bachelor, the only women I have been able to maintain a romantic relationship with have been at least raised in other countries.

    I’m sure this statement is causing American female upper lips to distort into a snarl. “Oh, another insecure man who is intimidated by an empowered woman!” — this is how it usually goes. This sentence captures, in essence, what is psychologically wrong with American women for a man of my sexual preference.

    First of all, the facts are wrong. If I were insecure, I wouldn’t have written this. Also, the women I’ve been able to deal with for longer than a year or two had job titles like, “SAW gunner,” “machine learning engineer,” and “scientist.” These are very likely to be considerably more “empowered” job titles than anyone reading this in a high moral dudgeon will ever achieve. If you disagree, and think your job is much more awesome than these, I suggest you take it up with the SAW gunner. Secondly, one of the excellent things about foreign women is they rarely try to cut your metaphorical testicles off with ridiculous shaming language. American women by contrast, don’t seem capable of communication without bagging on some poor man. Being an unpleasant, confrontational, sarcastic grouch seems to have become a sort of gender duty of American women. The rest of the world sees that as bad manners. Finally, the dribbling self-entitlement and totalitarian-princess gall of it all. Why should anyone care if I won’t date American women? It is simply my preference: as worthy of respect and approbation as the preference to not date any women. I count many American women as close friends, confidantes and family members. I love American women! I just don’t want to date them.

    Other varieties of women don’t get so upset about men not liking their kind so much. As a social experiment, I once told a beautiful and talented Russian girl I had a problem with depressing crazy drunkard Russian girls. She agreed with me that most Russian girls are crazy, depressing and drink too much, pointed out the good sides of Russians (hotness, passion, femininity), and noticed that she’s actually not really so Russian: she was from a tribe in Russia known for its cheerfulness and moderation. This anecdote illustrates an important difference between domestic and imported females. When faced with an outcome they do not like, American woman will become disagreeable. The foreign woman will become more feminine and seductive; a tactic I have few powers to resist. Since I am not a masochist who enjoys being menaced by angry harridans with rolling pins, this causes me to like the imported models better. I know, I know, my sexual preference is weird and kind of hard to wrap your brain around, but I can’t help it. Like many men who were afflicted with a non-standard sexual preference, I’m pretty sure I was born this way.

    While my preference is intensely emotional, being wrought in my own sense of extreme heterosexuality, I also look at it as intensely logical. I buy and sell for a living. American women are a bad investment. You see, I’m a very busy man: I’m trying to build a business, create American jobs and generate wealth to help bail us out of the horrible mess we are in. American women get upset when you’re not paying attention to them, and do things like start an argument about where to put your goldfish. Foreign women do things like try to help when you are busy.

    Many American women are also wrapped up in status monkey games (muuuust get big house) and the consumer gerbil wheel. Even if I were to find an American woman who makes the kind of dough I do, she’d likely spend the pair of us into penury before I am able to hire anybody. Foreign women generally come from less prosperous nations, and so they’re less interested in purchasing an enormous McMansion and stuffing it full of plastic tchotchkes along with a couple of neurotic crotch fruit. Foreign women believe in thrift, rather than conspicuous consumption.

    American women also tend to believe in deeply unattractive insanity like “gender as social construct feminism,” astrology, socialism, putting unsightly tattoos all over their bodies, and moral relativism of all kinds. I have yet to figure out why anybody would contract any kind of alliance with a moral relativist. Foreign women have seen these bad ideas disproved on a daily basis in their lives in less civilized nations, so they believe in things like common sense. I know this probably seems incredibly selfish of me, and perhaps some people think I should be a good fellow and pay more attention to where I put my goldfish, but as a productive member of society, I feel it is my patriotic duty to do my bit to help solve the economic crisis. I figure the slouchy hipsters with nothing better to do can go argue with American women about their goldfish to keep them happy while I’m off doing useful work.

    American women have a weird relationship with sex. They’re known the world over as loose women. Yet, sex with an American woman is a study in time-motion efficiency at best. Back in my academic days, I once taught an Italian grad student how to pick up girls on the internets: probably the only useful thing I ever taught anybody in an academic setting. Being Italian, he quickly became better at it than I was, but after his first couple of successes he came to my office with a troubled brow. “Scott, what is wrong with American women? I don’t want to brag, but I am good at sex. These women, they don’t come when I fuck them.” It took considerable powers of persuasion to convince him that the average American female needs to be worked over with power tools, months of therapy, and various acts considered signs of deviant madness by the American Psychological Association 50 years ago, in order to experience authentic genital quakes with someone else present in the room.

    This isn’t just the anecdotal evidence of a couple of science nerds sitting around the synchrotron, there have been scientific studies done on this subject. The vaginal orgasm is observably going away, both in the United States and Western Europe. There are certainly exceptions to all this, but the vaginal orgasm is so elusive among American females, it is widely considered to be a myth among the educated classes. Everywhere else in the world, it’s considered the normal way of conducting business. I have no idea how this came about; ideas I’ve come up with include epigenetics, poisonous feminism, hormonal imbalances, outbreeding depression, and inability to relax. Some researchers have pointed out that a likely cause is improper sex education that focuses on the clitoris… Basically, American women jerk off too much to derive any pleasure from normal, or even heroic heterosexual, intercourse. A parsimonious explanation, somewhat borne out by my personal investigations into the subject.

    Apparently most American men don’t mind that their snuggle bunnies might as well be doing their taxes while they drill for gold, or else they enjoy the manly hobby of weilding power tools even in the boudoir, or perhaps some enjoy dictating Tolstoy with the tips of their tongues every night. Well, that is their preference. While power tools and Tolstoy have their charms, I like the old fashioned kind of sex better, and the imported models are the ones dishing it out.

    And what of poise, style and feminine grace? Most of you Americans won’t know what I am talking about here, because you haven’t been around enough foreign women. American women do things like eat while they’re walking down the boulevard. Foreign women know this is horrifically gauche, to say nothing of fattening, so they don’t do it. Foreign women are too busy trying to balance a plate on their head to shove cupcakes in their mouths while they walk about.

    Fashion? Foreign women unashamedly wear dresses. American women wear clothing designed to disguise the fact that they are actually female. American women … they do not sashay or glide like the old fashioned foreigners do: they gambol and gesticulate like something out of the ape cage at the zoo. When they’re trying to be “feminine,” an American woman will do something like deploy her decolletage like a couple of battleship cannons. While I guess there is something appealing about gratuitous baboon displays of secondary sexual characteristics, it’s a rather crude gambit to my rarified xenosexual senses. A foreign woman can dangle her shoe at me with a naughty smirk, and I will forget all about the battleship cannons seated at the bar next to her. Granted, most American men seem to prefer to be bludgeoned with female battleship cannons; I know I’m the weird one here. Maybe the dress thing is atavistic , or maybe it’s because I understand how fermentation works that I don’t care for girls in pants. I guess most American men prefer that women wear the pants.

    The dimensions of modern American women are worth a mention. The average American woman is 5’4″ and tips the scales at 164lbs with a 37″ waist size. Being a squirrely little man of the exact average height and weight for an American male, I only have a 31″ waist, and so, well, I have to admit, the average, um, “curvy” American woman is certainly of a size that I find rather intimidating. By my calculations, that puts the average American female at approximately 39 percent bodyfat. Normal would be something like 16 percent, yielding a surplus of 38 lbs of fat per woman. There are about 150 million American women, giving us a grand total of 5.7 billion pounds of unsightly excess lard. To get an idea of how obscene this is, 7lbs of fat are about equivalent in energy expenditure to a gallon of petrochemical fuel. Each Saturn-V rocket, the awe-inspiring monstrosities that hurled 1960s era Freemasons to the moon, contained only 960,000 gallons of fuel. Waving my hands over the stoichiometry, this means there is enough excess libido destroying pork butter on American womanhood to power 5900 or so manned moon missions. While American men may like their women on the chunky side, I consider it incredibly wasteful that all this high fructose corn syrup goes to expand female waistlines when it could be used to power space ships to the moon. No, no, I prefer the old fashioned kind of females who have bellies considerably smaller than my own; you know, like the foreign ones.

    Then there is the idea of physical fitness among American women. Foreign women define physical fitness as being slim and feminine. American women think it is OK to be as fat as they like, so long as they can run a marathon or go on grueling hikes in the woods. Well, that’s OK I guess; physical fitness is important, but if you’re carrying around 30lbs of lard, I’m still not going to find you as attractive as a skinny but lazy Romanian or Vietnamese woman. Since I’m trying to find a date, rather than looking for someone to plough my fields, serve as an emergency food supply, or staff a private army, the whole fitness thing isn’t so important to me as the aesthetics of slender arms and waists.

    I’m pretty sure there is a hormonal component to the whole thing. Look, for example, at these American movie stars of yesteryear, Hedy Lamarr and Lillian Gish below. Beautiful, feminine, wholesome even, and dripping with estrogen. This is the kind of woman that appeals to xenosexuals like myself; they used to make them right here in America, back when Americans actually made things. Now we must make do with imports.

    By contrast we have Erin Anderson and Anna Paquin (technically Kiwi: humor me) below, rated 14 and 79 in this year’s “Top 99 most desirable women” by Ask Men. They both have the hatchet jaws, neanderthal brow ridges and beady eyes of a male to female transsexual. These physical features are caused by male hormones like testosterone. What could be going on here? Phthalates? Birth control pills? Virilization through yoyo dieting? It is a long story how this works, but even kids notice that fat ladies often have mustaches. Could it be a side effect of female hypergamy as F. Roger Devlin and the notorious Roissy have posited? Meaning, do women who have sampled too many Vienna sausages on the peen chuckwagon develop some sort of endocrinological issues? Or perhaps because modern American women are encouraged to compete and fight like a man, their adrenal glands have released enough androgens to visibly change them. Think about that for a minute: American feminism might have changed women physically.

    I’m nothing like an endocrinologist, and I’ve never done the calculations to see if this could theoretically happen, but the adrenal glands do release testosterone, and the adrenals are used a lot more by disagreeable grouchy American women than feminine foreigners. American men have been looking pretty testosterone deficient in recent years; perhaps they are seeking out something they lack? By contrast, I have an endocrinological disorder cursing me with a high level of testosterone; it comes from my birth into the violent working classes and is exacerbated by my habit of eating too much red meat and lifting enormous barbells in the gym. As such, I don’t care so much for the Popeye chin on the ladies. I like the ones with nice oval shaped faces and soft neonatal features, like Hedy Lamarr (who, by the way, was also a certifiable genius).

    [image]
    Numbers 14 and 73 most attractive women in the world according to dystopian universe of Ask Men

    The irreplaceable Roissy posted a sociological article about Kazakh perceptions of different nationalities of women that sums it up better than I ever could. Borat’s description of American women:
    American woman is described in quite contradictory way. Most amazing is a negative estimation of her appearance. There are many variations on this topic: not well-groomed, not stylish, does not dress well, not fashionable clothes, not ironed shorts and T-shirt, sleepers, put on bare feet, elderly woman in shorts, emancipated woman, for whom it is not important how she looks, a girl without make-up, happy fatty woman, stout and shapeless person, a short hair-cut, a knapsack, waddling walk, tennis shoes, dentures, plain, manlike, unisex.

    Borat speaks the truth; no political correctness there, and Borat’s women folk won’t menace him with a rolling pin for noticing the obvious. “Not that there is anything wrong with that,” as Seinfeld put it. Different kinds of men have different preferences and all that. If you like “stout and shapeless persons,” all the more power to you.

    It doesn’t matter to me where they’re from. I don’t discriminate against foreign women by race, color or creed: every variety of imported female I know of is better on average than the domestic kinds. Now that America consists of all sorts of racial types, you can no longer tell a foreign woman by an exotic complexion. But we xenosexual men will be able to tell. My F.O.B.-dar is so finely tuned, I can spot a Russian, Eritrean or Serb at 50 paces, and I’ll know if a Korean in America was raised in Los Angeles or is from the old country long before she opens her mouth. They seem to do a decent job of finding me as well; perhaps they notice my surfeit of self-respect compared to other American men — that’s how I spot my xenosexual brothers.

    So, immigration haters, give a care to your less fortunate xenosexual brothers. Would you condemn us to a lifetime of loneliness, or force us into the arms of women we don’t find attractive? I suspect American male xenosexuality might be a bigger phenomenon than was heretofore realized, so I encourage the lot of you to come out of the closet with me. I know Derb is on board. So are such notable conservatives as Fred Reed, and Roissy; even Mel Gibson — men who have seen a bit of life, and know what they like. Open wide the gates!

    [image]
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

    [image]
    Not an American woman

    Post Scriptum: No American women were harmed in researching this essay, despite what they may say.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Almost Missouri

    It's still up when I checked a couple minutes ago. I couldn't figure out at first how to get to the text of the article, but it came up when I hit the "print" button.

    Good news, the Wayback Machine is apparently not lost yet!

    Replies: @Almost Missouri
  • @Almost Missouri
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I offered the definition of “reasonable dystopia†as 1984 was to the USSR.
    �
    Eh? Dude, this is the first time anyone has mentioned the USSR on this page. It's also the first time you've used "reasonable" on this page.

    It seems that part of your discussions are occurring inside your own head, and only part of it occurs on the page where everyone else can see it. If you prefer keeping your arguments to yourself, that's fine, as it does save time. But it would have been nice to know that dialogue was only open to mind-readers.

    I then argued that HMT is to various Muslim countries at the time, as that was.
    �
    Except it wasn't, as already described, and anyhow Atwood specifically and explicitly intended it as a critique of the US, not of the Taliban, which no one had ever heard of when she wrote it. As a critique of the US it was laughably off target and it gets further off target every year.

    Meanwhile, the zealous and intolerant forces seizing control of government power are Atwood's own followers and fellow travellers, some of whom even dress up as characters in her book as a performative display of their fanaticism.

    So as a piece of "speculative fiction" it's an utter failure. At best it is just an extrusion of her own paranoid delusions, or possibly, as someone speculated above, her submission fantasy. But it has inspired many people to carry out the kinds of injustice and oppression she wrote about, only for the opposite purpose for which she described. And she likes that kind of injustice and oppression just fine.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    Yes, sorry. I must not have clicked “publish” on that comment.

    I should have said Attwood saw how life transformed for women in the cities in Iran and extrapolated out. I assume she knew about life for women in countries with even more oppressive attitudes to women too.

    Britain didn’t actually turn into Airstrip One, but Orwell was not crazy to look at various forces in British society, how the USSR had turned, and extrapolate out.

    I’m not a fan of HMT, but I still don’t think it was an insane book to write. The women who convince themselves that the US is just like it now, they are mad, but they are also very few.

  • @Almost Missouri
    @Dissident


    It may interest you to know that the individual whose comment endorsing you is seen in the screenshot you posted happens to be an unabashed defender of the Nazi genocide.
    �
    I think that's a mischaracterization. If you read the original in context, it is pretty clear he is saying something more like, "in an era of competing genocides, the Nazis (temporarily) won first place."

    But perhaps a more important question is, are these threads now a forum where we try to set up other blog commenters for future show trials? Include me out, as dfordoom says.

    Replies: @iffen, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I think that’s a mischaracterization.

    I went back a re-read and I think that you are doing more mischaracterization. He essentially said that Jews were responsible for the communist takeover of Russia and because of that they had it coming and deservedly so.

    •ï¿½Agree: Dissident
    •ï¿½Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @iffen


    He essentially said that Jews were responsible for the communist takeover of Russia
    �
    Was there not a major Jewish contribution, indeed, perhaps the decisive contribution in personnel, ideology and capital, from Jews [yes, NAJALT] to the Bolshevik/Communist takeover of Russia?

    Did the Bolsheviks not practice bloody and widespread genocides before anyone had heard of Nazis?

    Did the Bolsheviks not explicitly plan to make their "revolution" global?

    Was Germany (and the rest of the West) not explicitly in the attack corridor for the Communist expansion?

    The Nazis decided to strike first rather than wait for the next stage of Bolshevism. This isn't a secret or a retcon; it is what they explicitly said at the time. Was that the right thing to do? Apparently not. But in an age of genocide-or-be-genocided, one can see why they might go that route when faced with an existential threat. After all, it wasn't just German-Russian thing or a Jewish-Gentile thing. The Turks had (successfully) genocided the Greeks and Armenians out of Anatolia, the British had successfully genocided the Boers out of power in South Africa. Arabs have long been genociding Berbers, Bantus have long genocided Twa, Indian tribes long genocided each other, etc., etc. Like slavery, genocide has been business-as-usual for most of history. Recently, we supposedly decided that we're gonna stop doing that from now on, which doesn't actually seem to be working out, except that the genocideers have gotten more suave in how they go about it.

    But again, the more pertinent question here is, are we now making these threads into places where we lodge the accusations and do the pre-work for future show trials against anonymous commenters?
  • @Triteleia Laxa
    @Almost Missouri

    I believe that our discussion was whether The Handmaid’s Tale was a reasonable dystopia, once you look at some of the conditions women live in around the world, and in recent history.

    If you look back through the thread, I offered the definition of "reasonable dystopia" as 1984 was to the USSR. I then argued that HMT is to various Muslim countries at the time, as that was.

    I stand by this.

    We can argue the relative degrees of obvious oppression in different places and times, but, while I may have details wrong or right, I don't think they are going to be inaccurate enough to invalidate my broader point.

    I also don't see a sensible way of measuring those disparities with an accuracy suitable to make more than the general point that I was trying to make.

    HMT is to conditions that some women lived in at the time as 1984 was to conditions that some people lived in at the time. Both were not an exact picture of anywhere in the world, certainly not the country they were set in, but that's OK.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    I offered the definition of “reasonable dystopia†as 1984 was to the USSR.

    Eh? Dude, this is the first time anyone has mentioned the USSR on this page. It’s also the first time you’ve used “reasonable” on this page.

    It seems that part of your discussions are occurring inside your own head, and only part of it occurs on the page where everyone else can see it. If you prefer keeping your arguments to yourself, that’s fine, as it does save time. But it would have been nice to know that dialogue was only open to mind-readers.

    I then argued that HMT is to various Muslim countries at the time, as that was.

    Except it wasn’t, as already described, and anyhow Atwood specifically and explicitly intended it as a critique of the US, not of the Taliban, which no one had ever heard of when she wrote it. As a critique of the US it was laughably off target and it gets further off target every year.

    Meanwhile, the zealous and intolerant forces seizing control of government power are Atwood’s own followers and fellow travellers, some of whom even dress up as characters in her book as a performative display of their fanaticism.

    So as a piece of “speculative fiction” it’s an utter failure. At best it is just an extrusion of her own paranoid delusions, or possibly, as someone speculated above, her submission fantasy. But it has inspired many people to carry out the kinds of injustice and oppression she wrote about, only for the opposite purpose for which she described. And she likes that kind of injustice and oppression just fine.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Almost Missouri

    Yes, sorry. I must not have clicked "publish" on that comment.

    I should have said Attwood saw how life transformed for women in the cities in Iran and extrapolated out. I assume she knew about life for women in countries with even more oppressive attitudes to women too.

    Britain didn't actually turn into Airstrip One, but Orwell was not crazy to look at various forces in British society, how the USSR had turned, and extrapolate out.

    I'm not a fan of HMT, but I still don't think it was an insane book to write. The women who convince themselves that the US is just like it now, they are mad, but they are also very few.
  • @Dissident
    @Anonymous

    It may interest you to know that the individual whose comment endorsing you is seen in the screenshot you posted happens to be an unabashed defender of the Nazi genocide.

    (And not just of Jews; in the comment linked above, the estimable Mr. Errican acknowledges that,

    Hitler’s Wehrmacht also killed many, many Red Army (and civilian) goyim
    �
    , before immediately going on to posit,

    perhaps he was unimpressed with Slavic capitulation to Jewish revolutionary troublemaking.
    �
    )

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @V. K. Ovelund

    It may interest you to know that the individual whose comment endorsing you is seen in the screenshot you posted happens to be an unabashed defender of the Nazi genocide.

    I think that’s a mischaracterization. If you read the original in context, it is pretty clear he is saying something more like, “in an era of competing genocides, the Nazis (temporarily) won first place.”

    But perhaps a more important question is, are these threads now a forum where we try to set up other blog commenters for future show trials? Include me out, as dfordoom says.

    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @Almost Missouri

    I think that’s a mischaracterization.

    I went back a re-read and I think that you are doing more mischaracterization. He essentially said that Jews were responsible for the communist takeover of Russia and because of that they had it coming and deservedly so.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Almost Missouri

    A.M., thank you and V. K. Ovelund for your gallant defense of me as a commenter in general—I appreciate the sentiments.

    Background on commenter Dissident’s off-topic attack on me:

    I have taken to objecting, when it comes up, to pedophile Dissident’s ongoing NAMBLA nonce musings and catamite portrait posts. Dissident is not happy about this.

    Here’s his latest obsessive-compulsive post in that onanistic vein:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/anti-beautyism/#comment-4748647 (#277)

    I get a sputtering mention under the MORE tag, LOL

    Is the malignant audacity of a Hitler fanboy to assume some imagined perch as a self-anointed moral arbiter and avenger of some evil that is entirely a figment of his fevered imagination going to be further indulged?

    Returning, tangentially, to the decidedly indelicate sentiment that zundel referenced: a giant f[–]k you. As repellent as I generally find such vulgarity…
    �
    Links to Dissident's (typically bizarre) reply to my first comment telling him to desist his perverse posts, and copious search results of the word “boy†in Dissident's comment history:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-msm-tries-to-explain-the-racial-wreckening-on-the-roads/#comment-4737666 (#40)

    As for the past “genocide†topic in question, my concise assessment of historic Nazi motivations, actions, and outcomes has yet to be rebutted by Dissident, nor by original commenter Jack D, whom I addressed in that thread.

    Replies: @iffen, @Dissident
  • @dfordoom
    It's starting to look like the open thread may be the only option we're going to be left with if we want to continue at UR. I've just left a comment there (it's comment 285 on Open Thread 5). It's not an exciting comment. I just wanted to see if I got swarmed by nutters!

    Replies: @iffen

    I just wanted to see if I got swarmed by nutters!

    I did my part.

    •ï¿½LOL: dfordoom
  • @Intelligent Dasein
    @RogerL


    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added.
    �
    Andrew Anglin is a known informant and agent provocateur who engages in rather deceptive commenting practices to stir the pot, and his inclusion here at TUR is one of the reasons why I am very leery about being on this website at all anymore. The Daily Stormer is full of sock puppets and unicorns who basically turn the com-boxes into a kaleidoscopic house of mirrors, and that character has penetrated into TUR in recent years.

    I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be. "Rosie," for instance, is a unicorn and a troll whose comments are for some reason approved on Sailer's blog even before my own. And have you noticed how many longtime commenters have left lately, within the last few months? It's almost as if they decided, their purpose now served, to up stakes and preserve operational security.

    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?

    This is all very unsettling and I don't think I am comfortable with it anymore.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom, @RogerL, @YetAnotherAnon

    “I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be.”

    That’s obvious, I presume some are working for the other side, whether officially or unofficially. Remember the German court case I linked to where out of 200 top NPD party leaders, 30 were state agents.

    The agents/opposition/whatever won’t be Coronavirus-type trolls. More likely to be people accusing others of not being radical enough, stirring the pot. Or encouraging everyone to leave, who knows? Wilderness of mirrors.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Corvinus
    @YetAnotherAnon

    “That’s obvious, I presume some are working for the other side, whether officially or unofficiallyâ€

    You have an active imagination.

    “The agents/opposition/whatever won’t be Coronavirus-type trolls“

    It’s much easier for you to characterize anyone whom you personally disagree with in that fashion.

    Replies: @res
  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 28, 2021 at 8:47 am GMT •ï¿½300 Words
    @RogerL
    I'm not sure if TUR is a good fit for this blog community anymore.

    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added. If you aren't familiar with them, read their commenters and compare them. This is on top of the comments in post #242 about the history of commenting on TUR. That post gave me a lot to think about, and it took a while to think thru the implications and adjust to them - adjusting to them took a lot of effort. This is the fastest I can do things.

    There are all kinds of reasons not to use blogger. However dfordoom says its quick and easy. Right now we need REALLY QUICK. Later on, if somebody finds a better blogging solution, then we could move there.

    ~
    Google is part of the upgrade treadmill mafia, where you upgrade, or die. So a few years ago they intentionally broke the last version of Firefox that supported windows XP, which is what my computer runs. In this light, its amazing how many websites I can still access, use, and make purchases on, without any problems at all. In general, I can still use most websites, except for the trendy sites and globalist sites - this alone says a lot.

    I will upgrade to new everything, after I get some money from the VA, which won't be anytime soon. Shortly the local library will reopen again (they have been excessive in their wokeness and screwing the not-privileged) and probably I could go there to post comments on blogger.

    There probably aren't many people, still running XP, who are interested in continuing this blog community, so overall this isn't a blocking issue to this community moving to blogger - REALLY SOON.

    ~
    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.

    Once the blog is setup, probably the person who set it up could delegate almost all of the work needed to sustain the blog. So setting it up isn't likely to be a major ongoing time commitment.

    The bottom line is that somebody, who isn't running XP, has to set up the new blog on blogger.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom, @dfordoom

    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.

    I already have a political blog on Blogger and it would be inconvenient and confusing for me to try to run two political blogs.

    Anyone who wants to follow my blog or leave comments is of course very welcome to do so. Comments are moderated (which in my opinion is absolutely essential) and my moderation policies are slightly stricter than AE’s schoolmarm.

    If anyone wants to write a guest post they’re welcome to do so. At the moment the blog is set up with myself as the only authorised poster and I don’t want to fiddle with those settings at the moment (although I’d certainly consider it in the future) but if you email a guest post to me I’ll publish it (under the pseudonym of your choice of course) as long as it passes muster with my schoolmarm.

    The blog mainly focuses on social issue stuff (the family, political correctness, censorship, marriage, sex, education, history, Wokeness in popular culture, the politicisation of science, etc). It has a modest following and a few decent regular commenters. I check it every day so the longest you’d ever have to wait for a comment to be approved would be 24 hours (I have to do things like sleep).

    Anyway that’s what I personally can offer at the moment. If you missed the link to my blog last time here it is again –

    https://anotherpoliticallyincorrectblog.blogspot.com/

    •ï¿½Thanks: Dissident
    •ï¿½Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @dfordoom

    Your suggestions are good. Thank you for coordinating. I go to the Open Thread and to your blog.
    , @Marty
    @dfordoom

    You’re blocked by FedEx.

    Replies: @dfordoom
  • @Anonymous
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Thanks, Triteleia. This is an excellent explanation.
    I began reading TUR almost as soon as Ron Unz created it, and often commented. This was back in the days when women such as "Pamela" commented, and this was then clearly a serious intellectual site.
    As Ron Unz added more writers, to my mind often of dubious quality, the site, in my view, began to deteriorate. Peter Frost left. Jayman left. Razib Khan left. Then when Takimag closed comments and that collection of internet slime moved here, serious commenting at Unz essentially died.
    Anyway, my personal experience, was that when I posted as a woman, which I am, the intensity of the hostility my remarks engendered was surprising to me because since high school days I'd always engaged in serious discussions on all sorts of subjects with mixed-gendered groups of friends and classmates without ever being attacked or belittled because of my sex.
    And then I noticed that when I posted comments under a generic pseudonym, readers were positive and I was not attacked. Unfortunately, a few shrewd individuals could figure out I was female, and then the attacks began again, so I gave up posting except for the occasional anonymous comment, which I usually later regretted making because it seems a waste to engage the sorts who infest TUR comment sections (except for a notable few) in any way at all.

    https://i.imgur.com/Bmbhkt9.png

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Barbarossa, @Almost Missouri, @Dissident

    It may interest you to know that the individual whose comment endorsing you is seen in the screenshot you posted happens to be an unabashed defender of the Nazi genocide.

    (And not just of Jews; in the comment linked above, the estimable Mr. Errican acknowledges that,

    Hitler’s Wehrmacht also killed many, many Red Army (and civilian) goyim

    , before immediately going on to posit,

    perhaps he was unimpressed with Slavic capitulation to Jewish revolutionary troublemaking.

    )

    •ï¿½Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Dissident


    It may interest you to know that the individual whose comment endorsing you is seen in the screenshot you posted happens to be an unabashed defender of the Nazi genocide.
    �
    I think that's a mischaracterization. If you read the original in context, it is pretty clear he is saying something more like, "in an era of competing genocides, the Nazis (temporarily) won first place."

    But perhaps a more important question is, are these threads now a forum where we try to set up other blog commenters for future show trials? Include me out, as dfordoom says.

    Replies: @iffen, @Jenner Ickham Errican
    , @V. K. Ovelund
    @Dissident

    You and I are simply enemies. How high you are willing to escalate the conflict between your people and mine is up to you; but the conflict, which has gone poorly for my people, will go even worse for yours if you persist. We outnumber you, and while in several respects your people bring more human capital per capita than do mine, the difference will not be enough.

    I suggest that you stop escalating while you still can.

    The comment of Jenner Ickham Errican to which you object is entirely reasonable. You can only make it out to be unreasonable by neuroticism combined with typically Talmudic contortions. Of course, the contortions hardly bother you because, as the Talmud teaches, you do not even believe that Jenner and I have proper souls.

    You are why I am an anti-Semite. If anti-Semitism is what you want, you're doing great. I think you're a total jerk.

    What is wrong with you? Why can't you just act a little more like Ron Unz? If you did, this entire conflict would just go away.

    Replies: @AaronB, @Jenner Ickham Errican
  • @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?
    �
    As I understand it he left voluntarily because it was no longer safe for him to be associated with Unz Review. In the country in which he lives being associated with Unz Review could potentially earn you a long prison sentence.

    That's the real problem. That's the reason the sane sensible contributors and the sane sensible commenters are leaving one by one.

    And that's the reason why we should think about trying to set up a new blog/community elsewhere.

    We need to realise that Unz Review is increasingly seen as an extremist site that sane sensible people can no longer afford to be associated with. Because increasingly it really has become an incredibly extremist site. And as the sane sensible contributors leave they're being replaced by new contributors who are full-on extremist nutters.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    And that’s the reason why we should think about trying to set up a new blog/community elsewhere.

    My blog remains available for that.

    I can’t promise to write every day, nor can I promise to write things that people here will find interesting; but since Unz is getting dangerous, I think that’s just what I’ll have to do.

    There is no place here that can serve as a substitute. Sailer’s moderating policies are way too flakey and glacial-paced to support decent conversation; besides, I don’t care for Sailer anyway. I’m banned from commenting on Karlin. I am not going to touch Anglin. Nobody else really has an acceptable atmosphere.

    I guess that’s a wrap, folks.

  • RogerL says:
    June 28, 2021 at 4:38 am GMT •ï¿½200 Words
    @Intelligent Dasein
    @RogerL


    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added.
    �
    Andrew Anglin is a known informant and agent provocateur who engages in rather deceptive commenting practices to stir the pot, and his inclusion here at TUR is one of the reasons why I am very leery about being on this website at all anymore. The Daily Stormer is full of sock puppets and unicorns who basically turn the com-boxes into a kaleidoscopic house of mirrors, and that character has penetrated into TUR in recent years.

    I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be. "Rosie," for instance, is a unicorn and a troll whose comments are for some reason approved on Sailer's blog even before my own. And have you noticed how many longtime commenters have left lately, within the last few months? It's almost as if they decided, their purpose now served, to up stakes and preserve operational security.

    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?

    This is all very unsettling and I don't think I am comfortable with it anymore.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom, @RogerL, @YetAnotherAnon

    I would be easy for me to write a long post speculating on those issues. However its probably not appropriate, its definitely not germane, and we are running out of time.

    The bottom line is, do we want to be involved with anything that is involved with Andrew Anglin? For me, now that I’ve framed the question this way, the answer is NO.

    Where do we move to now?

    Who is going to set up the new blog?

    ~
    Occasionally I see a few articles on how the left is being sabotaged, but they don’t reference a toolbox for coping with it. I haven’t ever seen an article on how the right is being sabotaged. What a lot of innocents in the deep state wilderness.

    However this is a long-term issue to be dealt with, after we’ve moved to a location that won’t expire in a couple of days.

    ~
    AE – exactly when is the plug going to be pulled on this group?

    Probably its best to reply in GMT time, to prevent confusion.

    I use this website for setting my watch, and checking what the GMT/UTC time is:
    http://www.time.gov

    Okay, I just outed myself – I live somewhere in North America. LOL

    •ï¿½Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    @RogerL


    The bottom line is, do we want to be involved with anything that is involved with Andrew Anglin? For me, now that I’ve framed the question this way, the answer is NO.
    �
    For me, YES.

    I am not a big follower of Anglin's, but this is more a matter of style than substance. Aglin is a creative, clever fellow and a good writer. He often has interesting things to say—and, in his ideological lane, there are few who say it better.

    He's trying to save my people and civilization from the fate that otherwise awaits them. His prescriptions may be imperfect but whose prescriptions aren't? I like him. He's got the right enemies, too.

    I want nothing to do with any publisher who would cancel Andrew Anglin.

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 28, 2021 at 4:00 am GMT •ï¿½200 Words
    @Intelligent Dasein
    @RogerL


    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added.
    �
    Andrew Anglin is a known informant and agent provocateur who engages in rather deceptive commenting practices to stir the pot, and his inclusion here at TUR is one of the reasons why I am very leery about being on this website at all anymore. The Daily Stormer is full of sock puppets and unicorns who basically turn the com-boxes into a kaleidoscopic house of mirrors, and that character has penetrated into TUR in recent years.

    I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be. "Rosie," for instance, is a unicorn and a troll whose comments are for some reason approved on Sailer's blog even before my own. And have you noticed how many longtime commenters have left lately, within the last few months? It's almost as if they decided, their purpose now served, to up stakes and preserve operational security.

    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?

    This is all very unsettling and I don't think I am comfortable with it anymore.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom, @RogerL, @YetAnotherAnon

    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?

    As I understand it he left voluntarily because it was no longer safe for him to be associated with Unz Review. In the country in which he lives being associated with Unz Review could potentially earn you a long prison sentence.

    That’s the real problem. That’s the reason the sane sensible contributors and the sane sensible commenters are leaving one by one.

    And that’s the reason why we should think about trying to set up a new blog/community elsewhere.

    We need to realise that Unz Review is increasingly seen as an extremist site that sane sensible people can no longer afford to be associated with. Because increasingly it really has become an incredibly extremist site. And as the sane sensible contributors leave they’re being replaced by new contributors who are full-on extremist nutters.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @dfordoom


    And that’s the reason why we should think about trying to set up a new blog/community elsewhere.
    �
    My blog remains available for that.

    I can't promise to write every day, nor can I promise to write things that people here will find interesting; but since Unz is getting dangerous, I think that's just what I'll have to do.

    There is no place here that can serve as a substitute. Sailer's moderating policies are way too flakey and glacial-paced to support decent conversation; besides, I don't care for Sailer anyway. I'm banned from commenting on Karlin. I am not going to touch Anglin. Nobody else really has an acceptable atmosphere.

    I guess that's a wrap, folks.
  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 28, 2021 at 3:39 am GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @Jay Fink
    @YetAnotherAnon

    It seems the mid 20th Century was an exception to the rule. Monogamy was socially enforced and marriage and children fell into place for most men. After the sexual revolution we returned to the haves and have nots.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    It seems the mid 20th Century was an exception to the rule. Monogamy was socially enforced and marriage and children fell into place for most men. After the sexual revolution we returned to the haves and have nots.

    I think that’s true. It was a unique time in which most men could get decent well-paid secure jobs. Secure being the really important factor. For the only time in human history most men were very attractive marriage propositions for women.

    While the Sexual Revolution did play a part in ending that golden age the most important factors were the disappearance of those decent well-paid and the ending of job security.

    It’s also crucial to remember that the ending of job security affected not just the working class but the lower middle class.

  • @Intelligent Dasein
    @RogerL


    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added.
    �
    Andrew Anglin is a known informant and agent provocateur who engages in rather deceptive commenting practices to stir the pot, and his inclusion here at TUR is one of the reasons why I am very leery about being on this website at all anymore. The Daily Stormer is full of sock puppets and unicorns who basically turn the com-boxes into a kaleidoscopic house of mirrors, and that character has penetrated into TUR in recent years.

    I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be. "Rosie," for instance, is a unicorn and a troll whose comments are for some reason approved on Sailer's blog even before my own. And have you noticed how many longtime commenters have left lately, within the last few months? It's almost as if they decided, their purpose now served, to up stakes and preserve operational security.

    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?

    This is all very unsettling and I don't think I am comfortable with it anymore.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom, @RogerL, @YetAnotherAnon

    I guess “unicorn” doesn’t mean to you, what it means to me!

  • @RogerL
    I'm not sure if TUR is a good fit for this blog community anymore.

    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added. If you aren't familiar with them, read their commenters and compare them. This is on top of the comments in post #242 about the history of commenting on TUR. That post gave me a lot to think about, and it took a while to think thru the implications and adjust to them - adjusting to them took a lot of effort. This is the fastest I can do things.

    There are all kinds of reasons not to use blogger. However dfordoom says its quick and easy. Right now we need REALLY QUICK. Later on, if somebody finds a better blogging solution, then we could move there.

    ~
    Google is part of the upgrade treadmill mafia, where you upgrade, or die. So a few years ago they intentionally broke the last version of Firefox that supported windows XP, which is what my computer runs. In this light, its amazing how many websites I can still access, use, and make purchases on, without any problems at all. In general, I can still use most websites, except for the trendy sites and globalist sites - this alone says a lot.

    I will upgrade to new everything, after I get some money from the VA, which won't be anytime soon. Shortly the local library will reopen again (they have been excessive in their wokeness and screwing the not-privileged) and probably I could go there to post comments on blogger.

    There probably aren't many people, still running XP, who are interested in continuing this blog community, so overall this isn't a blocking issue to this community moving to blogger - REALLY SOON.

    ~
    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.

    Once the blog is setup, probably the person who set it up could delegate almost all of the work needed to sustain the blog. So setting it up isn't likely to be a major ongoing time commitment.

    The bottom line is that somebody, who isn't running XP, has to set up the new blog on blogger.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @dfordoom, @dfordoom

    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added.

    Andrew Anglin is a known informant and agent provocateur who engages in rather deceptive commenting practices to stir the pot, and his inclusion here at TUR is one of the reasons why I am very leery about being on this website at all anymore. The Daily Stormer is full of sock puppets and unicorns who basically turn the com-boxes into a kaleidoscopic house of mirrors, and that character has penetrated into TUR in recent years.

    I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be. “Rosie,” for instance, is a unicorn and a troll whose comments are for some reason approved on Sailer’s blog even before my own. And have you noticed how many longtime commenters have left lately, within the last few months? It’s almost as if they decided, their purpose now served, to up stakes and preserve operational security.

    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?

    This is all very unsettling and I don’t think I am comfortable with it anymore.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I guess "unicorn" doesn't mean to you, what it means to me!
    , @dfordoom
    @Intelligent Dasein


    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?
    �
    As I understand it he left voluntarily because it was no longer safe for him to be associated with Unz Review. In the country in which he lives being associated with Unz Review could potentially earn you a long prison sentence.

    That's the real problem. That's the reason the sane sensible contributors and the sane sensible commenters are leaving one by one.

    And that's the reason why we should think about trying to set up a new blog/community elsewhere.

    We need to realise that Unz Review is increasingly seen as an extremist site that sane sensible people can no longer afford to be associated with. Because increasingly it really has become an incredibly extremist site. And as the sane sensible contributors leave they're being replaced by new contributors who are full-on extremist nutters.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    , @RogerL
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I would be easy for me to write a long post speculating on those issues. However its probably not appropriate, its definitely not germane, and we are running out of time.

    The bottom line is, do we want to be involved with anything that is involved with Andrew Anglin? For me, now that I've framed the question this way, the answer is NO.

    Where do we move to now?

    Who is going to set up the new blog?

    ~
    Occasionally I see a few articles on how the left is being sabotaged, but they don't reference a toolbox for coping with it. I haven't ever seen an article on how the right is being sabotaged. What a lot of innocents in the deep state wilderness.

    However this is a long-term issue to be dealt with, after we've moved to a location that won't expire in a couple of days.

    ~
    AE - exactly when is the plug going to be pulled on this group?

    Probably its best to reply in GMT time, to prevent confusion.

    I use this website for setting my watch, and checking what the GMT/UTC time is:
    www.time.gov

    Okay, I just outed myself - I live somewhere in North America. LOL

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Intelligent Dasein

    "I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be."

    That's obvious, I presume some are working for the other side, whether officially or unofficially. Remember the German court case I linked to where out of 200 top NPD party leaders, 30 were state agents.

    The agents/opposition/whatever won't be Coronavirus-type trolls. More likely to be people accusing others of not being radical enough, stirring the pot. Or encouraging everyone to leave, who knows? Wilderness of mirrors.

    Replies: @Corvinus
  • @YetAnotherAnon
    @nebulafox

    I hate to encourage anyone to respond to the troll Coronavirus, but this is a very good comment. The ideas were very well expressed by the good Professor Beaumeister here. Note that he wrote in a more innocent age, all of nine or so years ago - no one now would argue that mostly male CEOs or inventors meant men were 'better' than women, it would be prima facie evidence of the institutional and structural sexism inherent in ...

    http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Men go to extremes more than women. It’s true not just with IQ but also with other things, even height: The male distribution of height is flatter, with more really tall and really short men.

    Again, there is a reason for this, to which I shall return.

    For now, the point is that it explains how we can have opposite stereotypes. Men go to extremes more than women. Stereotypes are sustained by confirmation bias. Want to think men are better than women? Then look at the top, the heroes, the inventors, the philanthropists, and so on. Want to think women are better than men? Then look at the bottom, the criminals, the junkies, the losers.

    In an important sense, men really are better AND worse than women.

    Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.

    For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.

    For men, the outlook was radically different. If you go along with the crowd and play it safe, the odds are you won’t have children. Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends. Hence it was necessary to take chances, try new things, be creative, explore other possibilities. Sailing off into the unknown may be risky, and you might drown or be killed or whatever, but then again if you stay home you won’t reproduce anyway. We’re most descended from the type of men who made the risky voyage and managed to come back rich. In that case he would finally get a good chance to pass on his genes. We’re descended from men who took chances (and were lucky).

    The huge difference in reproductive success very likely contributed to some personality differences, because different traits pointed the way to success. Women did best by minimizing risks, whereas the successful men were the ones who took chances. Ambition and competitive striving probably mattered more to male success (measured in offspring) than female. Creativity was probably more necessary, to help the individual man stand out in some way. Even the sex drive difference was relevant: For many men, there would be few chances to reproduce and so they had to be ready for every sexual opportunity. If a man said “not today, I have a headache,†he might miss his only chance.

    Another crucial point. The danger of having no children is only one side of the male coin. Every child has a biological mother and father, and so if there were only half as many fathers as mothers among our ancestors, then some of those fathers had lots of children.

    Look at it this way. Most women have only a few children, and hardly any have more than a dozen — but many fathers have had more than a few, and some men have actually had several dozen, even hundreds of kids.

    My point is that no woman, even if she conquered twice as much territory as Genghis Khan, could have had a thousand children. Striving for greatness in that sense offered the human female no such biological payoff. For the man, the possibility was there, and so the blood of Genghis Khan runs through a large segment of today’s human population. By definition, only a few men can achieve greatness, but for the few men who do, the gains have been real.

    In terms of the biological competition to produce offspring, then, men outnumbered women both among the losers and among the biggest winners.
    �
    His comment about "women who played it safe" still applies, which is why the average woman in the West was conservative in the 50s and is 'radical' (as dictated by MSM) now. "Go along to get along".

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Triteleia Laxa, @Corvinus

    The effects are real, but the effects are small and just averages, except at the extremes.

    You need a maths problem solved or else it is the end of the universe. There is a man and a woman to pick from. Do you pick the man, or do you give them both a maths test to see who is better?

    The current system, of if the man does better, you decry sexism, is even more stupid; but the old traditionally sexist one, was wrong too.

    •ï¿½Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The old traditional society wasn't that bad - a women could still be a mathematician or doctor if she wished. Our family doctor when I was a child was a woman who must have graduated in the late 1920s.

    But... she was unmarried and childless, as well as being a great doctor. If only that intelligence and compassion could have been passed down.

    I know an elderly former nurse who gave up the job on marriage. But her children are two doctors, a nurse and a senior civil servant. Men just can't do that, we're reliant on you lot to step up to the plate.
  • RogerL says:
    June 27, 2021 at 9:47 pm GMT •ï¿½400 Words

    I’m not sure if TUR is a good fit for this blog community anymore.

    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added. If you aren’t familiar with them, read their commenters and compare them. This is on top of the comments in post #242 about the history of commenting on TUR. That post gave me a lot to think about, and it took a while to think thru the implications and adjust to them – adjusting to them took a lot of effort. This is the fastest I can do things.

    There are all kinds of reasons not to use blogger. However dfordoom says its quick and easy. Right now we need REALLY QUICK. Later on, if somebody finds a better blogging solution, then we could move there.

    ~
    Google is part of the upgrade treadmill mafia, where you upgrade, or die. So a few years ago they intentionally broke the last version of Firefox that supported windows XP, which is what my computer runs. In this light, its amazing how many websites I can still access, use, and make purchases on, without any problems at all. In general, I can still use most websites, except for the trendy sites and globalist sites – this alone says a lot.

    I will upgrade to new everything, after I get some money from the VA, which won’t be anytime soon. Shortly the local library will reopen again (they have been excessive in their wokeness and screwing the not-privileged) and probably I could go there to post comments on blogger.

    There probably aren’t many people, still running XP, who are interested in continuing this blog community, so overall this isn’t a blocking issue to this community moving to blogger – REALLY SOON.

    ~
    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.

    Once the blog is setup, probably the person who set it up could delegate almost all of the work needed to sustain the blog. So setting it up isn’t likely to be a major ongoing time commitment.

    The bottom line is that somebody, who isn’t running XP, has to set up the new blog on blogger.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @RogerL


    Recently C J Hopkins was dropped and Andrew Anglin was added.
    �
    Andrew Anglin is a known informant and agent provocateur who engages in rather deceptive commenting practices to stir the pot, and his inclusion here at TUR is one of the reasons why I am very leery about being on this website at all anymore. The Daily Stormer is full of sock puppets and unicorns who basically turn the com-boxes into a kaleidoscopic house of mirrors, and that character has penetrated into TUR in recent years.

    I am more and more convinced that many of the commenters here are not who they present themselves to be. "Rosie," for instance, is a unicorn and a troll whose comments are for some reason approved on Sailer's blog even before my own. And have you noticed how many longtime commenters have left lately, within the last few months? It's almost as if they decided, their purpose now served, to up stakes and preserve operational security.

    CJ Hopkins is a good writer who was kicking the truth about Corona. Why should he be dropped?

    This is all very unsettling and I don't think I am comfortable with it anymore.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom, @RogerL, @YetAnotherAnon
    , @dfordoom
    @RogerL


    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.
    �
    I already have a political blog on Blogger and it would be inconvenient and confusing for me to try to run two political blogs.

    Anyone who wants to follow my blog or leave comments is of course very welcome to do so. Comments are moderated (which in my opinion is absolutely essential) and my moderation policies are slightly stricter than AE's schoolmarm.

    If anyone wants to write a guest post they're welcome to do so. At the moment the blog is set up with myself as the only authorised poster and I don't want to fiddle with those settings at the moment (although I'd certainly consider it in the future) but if you email a guest post to me I'll publish it (under the pseudonym of your choice of course) as long as it passes muster with my schoolmarm.

    The blog mainly focuses on social issue stuff (the family, political correctness, censorship, marriage, sex, education, history, Wokeness in popular culture, the politicisation of science, etc). It has a modest following and a few decent regular commenters. I check it every day so the longest you'd ever have to wait for a comment to be approved would be 24 hours (I have to do things like sleep).

    Anyway that's what I personally can offer at the moment. If you missed the link to my blog last time here it is again -

    https://anotherpoliticallyincorrectblog.blogspot.com/

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Marty
    , @dfordoom
    @RogerL


    So if somebody set up a blog on blogger, then this community could at least temporarily move there.
    �
    At the moment I'm trying to transfer some of the recent very interesting discussions here to the Open Thread. I see this as a temporary thing. If we can keep this community of commenters going for a while on the Open Thread maybe we can buy ourselves a little time to think of a long term option. So if you go to the Open Thread you'll find several comments that I've left there that relate to our recent discussions.

    I know that the Open Thread is probably not a long-term solution but I'd encourage people to use it as a short-term refuge.

    So if you're interested the relevant One Thread posts are Numbers 285, 294 and 295. And @Iffen's comment, Number 287.

    Replies: @RogerL
  • @YetAnotherAnon
    @nebulafox

    I hate to encourage anyone to respond to the troll Coronavirus, but this is a very good comment. The ideas were very well expressed by the good Professor Beaumeister here. Note that he wrote in a more innocent age, all of nine or so years ago - no one now would argue that mostly male CEOs or inventors meant men were 'better' than women, it would be prima facie evidence of the institutional and structural sexism inherent in ...

    http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Men go to extremes more than women. It’s true not just with IQ but also with other things, even height: The male distribution of height is flatter, with more really tall and really short men.

    Again, there is a reason for this, to which I shall return.

    For now, the point is that it explains how we can have opposite stereotypes. Men go to extremes more than women. Stereotypes are sustained by confirmation bias. Want to think men are better than women? Then look at the top, the heroes, the inventors, the philanthropists, and so on. Want to think women are better than men? Then look at the bottom, the criminals, the junkies, the losers.

    In an important sense, men really are better AND worse than women.

    Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.

    For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.

    For men, the outlook was radically different. If you go along with the crowd and play it safe, the odds are you won’t have children. Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends. Hence it was necessary to take chances, try new things, be creative, explore other possibilities. Sailing off into the unknown may be risky, and you might drown or be killed or whatever, but then again if you stay home you won’t reproduce anyway. We’re most descended from the type of men who made the risky voyage and managed to come back rich. In that case he would finally get a good chance to pass on his genes. We’re descended from men who took chances (and were lucky).

    The huge difference in reproductive success very likely contributed to some personality differences, because different traits pointed the way to success. Women did best by minimizing risks, whereas the successful men were the ones who took chances. Ambition and competitive striving probably mattered more to male success (measured in offspring) than female. Creativity was probably more necessary, to help the individual man stand out in some way. Even the sex drive difference was relevant: For many men, there would be few chances to reproduce and so they had to be ready for every sexual opportunity. If a man said “not today, I have a headache,†he might miss his only chance.

    Another crucial point. The danger of having no children is only one side of the male coin. Every child has a biological mother and father, and so if there were only half as many fathers as mothers among our ancestors, then some of those fathers had lots of children.

    Look at it this way. Most women have only a few children, and hardly any have more than a dozen — but many fathers have had more than a few, and some men have actually had several dozen, even hundreds of kids.

    My point is that no woman, even if she conquered twice as much territory as Genghis Khan, could have had a thousand children. Striving for greatness in that sense offered the human female no such biological payoff. For the man, the possibility was there, and so the blood of Genghis Khan runs through a large segment of today’s human population. By definition, only a few men can achieve greatness, but for the few men who do, the gains have been real.

    In terms of the biological competition to produce offspring, then, men outnumbered women both among the losers and among the biggest winners.
    �
    His comment about "women who played it safe" still applies, which is why the average woman in the West was conservative in the 50s and is 'radical' (as dictated by MSM) now. "Go along to get along".

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Triteleia Laxa, @Corvinus

    It seems the mid 20th Century was an exception to the rule. Monogamy was socially enforced and marriage and children fell into place for most men. After the sexual revolution we returned to the haves and have nots.

    •ï¿½Replies: @dfordoom
    @Jay Fink


    It seems the mid 20th Century was an exception to the rule. Monogamy was socially enforced and marriage and children fell into place for most men. After the sexual revolution we returned to the haves and have nots.
    �
    I think that's true. It was a unique time in which most men could get decent well-paid secure jobs. Secure being the really important factor. For the only time in human history most men were very attractive marriage propositions for women.

    While the Sexual Revolution did play a part in ending that golden age the most important factors were the disappearance of those decent well-paid and the ending of job security.

    It's also crucial to remember that the ending of job security affected not just the working class but the lower middle class.
  • @nebulafox
    @Corvinus

    Mark Stoneking's 2014 DNA analysis shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that more women than men successfully reproduced throughout the majority of human history. We, as a species, have a wider variety of female ancestors than male ones.

    This should not be shocking, on a number of levels. Men can theoretically get dozens of women pregnant within a single month. Whereas a woman can only pregnant from a single man for 9 months. That's just biology at work. This drives male competition for women rather than the other way around. In primitive societies, that means the likely result is going to be some men dominating the gene pool and other men losing out on the mating game entirely.

    As for the rest: just go take a look at the proportion of male to female CEOs and billionaires, and male to female homeless and mentally ill people.

    The irony is, I don't disagree at all with feminist talk about "glass ceilings". They do exist, and for most of human history, used to be a lot stronger. They just don't notice the other part of the dynamic. And I don't think that focus is cynical. If you happen to be a Type A personality who has the abilities and drive to make it to the top, the ceiling is naturally what you'll pay attention to, not the net. But they miss the fact that a man in the converse situation from theirs doesn't really have an "opt out" option like they do. "Fragility" and "privilege" have little to do with why men respond so poorly to a lack of professional success or are unlikely to take pink-collar jobs: that's a death sentence in attracting women, and they know it, regardless of what the New York Times claims. And that ties to the biological reality that if they make crucial "mistakes", they won't reproduce at all.

    Women have their own challenges, which are neither inherently better or worse. They are just different, with a different set of trade-offs that benefits or penalizes people individually. Among the unstated trade-offs is this: as a woman, you don't have to get as much right in your perceptions about the opposite sex. I suspect that is part of the underlying growing male bitterness about mainstream discussions about gender.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    I hate to encourage anyone to respond to the troll Coronavirus, but this is a very good comment. The ideas were very well expressed by the good Professor Beaumeister here. Note that he wrote in a more innocent age, all of nine or so years ago – no one now would argue that mostly male CEOs or inventors meant men were ‘better’ than women, it would be prima facie evidence of the institutional and structural sexism inherent in …

    http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Men go to extremes more than women. It’s true not just with IQ but also with other things, even height: The male distribution of height is flatter, with more really tall and really short men.

    Again, there is a reason for this, to which I shall return.

    For now, the point is that it explains how we can have opposite stereotypes. Men go to extremes more than women. Stereotypes are sustained by confirmation bias. Want to think men are better than women? Then look at the top, the heroes, the inventors, the philanthropists, and so on. Want to think women are better than men? Then look at the bottom, the criminals, the junkies, the losers.

    In an important sense, men really are better AND worse than women.

    Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.

    For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.

    For men, the outlook was radically different. If you go along with the crowd and play it safe, the odds are you won’t have children. Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends. Hence it was necessary to take chances, try new things, be creative, explore other possibilities. Sailing off into the unknown may be risky, and you might drown or be killed or whatever, but then again if you stay home you won’t reproduce anyway. We’re most descended from the type of men who made the risky voyage and managed to come back rich. In that case he would finally get a good chance to pass on his genes. We’re descended from men who took chances (and were lucky).

    The huge difference in reproductive success very likely contributed to some personality differences, because different traits pointed the way to success. Women did best by minimizing risks, whereas the successful men were the ones who took chances. Ambition and competitive striving probably mattered more to male success (measured in offspring) than female. Creativity was probably more necessary, to help the individual man stand out in some way. Even the sex drive difference was relevant: For many men, there would be few chances to reproduce and so they had to be ready for every sexual opportunity. If a man said “not today, I have a headache,†he might miss his only chance.

    Another crucial point. The danger of having no children is only one side of the male coin. Every child has a biological mother and father, and so if there were only half as many fathers as mothers among our ancestors, then some of those fathers had lots of children.

    Look at it this way. Most women have only a few children, and hardly any have more than a dozen — but many fathers have had more than a few, and some men have actually had several dozen, even hundreds of kids.

    My point is that no woman, even if she conquered twice as much territory as Genghis Khan, could have had a thousand children. Striving for greatness in that sense offered the human female no such biological payoff. For the man, the possibility was there, and so the blood of Genghis Khan runs through a large segment of today’s human population. By definition, only a few men can achieve greatness, but for the few men who do, the gains have been real.

    In terms of the biological competition to produce offspring, then, men outnumbered women both among the losers and among the biggest winners.

    His comment about “women who played it safe” still applies, which is why the average woman in the West was conservative in the 50s and is ‘radical’ (as dictated by MSM) now. “Go along to get along”.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Jay Fink
    @YetAnotherAnon

    It seems the mid 20th Century was an exception to the rule. Monogamy was socially enforced and marriage and children fell into place for most men. After the sexual revolution we returned to the haves and have nots.

    Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @YetAnotherAnon

    The effects are real, but the effects are small and just averages, except at the extremes.

    You need a maths problem solved or else it is the end of the universe. There is a man and a woman to pick from. Do you pick the man, or do you give them both a maths test to see who is better?

    The current system, of if the man does better, you decry sexism, is even more stupid; but the old traditionally sexist one, was wrong too.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    , @Corvinus
    @YetAnotherAnon

    "I hate to encourage anyone to respond to the troll Coronavirus, but this is a very good comment"

    That's hilarious on your part. I responded to nebulafox, you call me a troll. He provided me with his line of thinking, which I appreciate. See, that is how conversation works. You should learn something here, rather than have your stereotype sustained by confirmation bias :)
  • @nebulafox
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I'd agree about Dostoevsky. Tolstoy is who you want to go by if you are a fundamentally well-adjusted, normal person. Dostoevsky is the guide for people who aren't, which are a minority of the populace. I mean that without condemnation! You need both.

    But the Comedy... not as much. One of the interesting things about the Comedy is that Dante had multiple purposes for the work that might not come across to modern readers upon first glance. One of them was to serve as an encyclopedia of sorts. This was before Petrarch or the Greek exodus from the fall of Constantinople into Italy, remember. Dante had to teach himself and assemble his own education from scraps in a way that, say, Machiavelli never had to do. Dante found the medieval notion of life as a "vale of tears" profoundly repugnant, but also knew that most people would not have his patience or discipline to go hunting for general knowledge. The Comedy, written in Italian rather than Latin, was meant as a way to help people there.

    (He allowed himself no false modesty-and he noted in Purgatorio that Pride was the circle he feared the most, for good reason.)

    For the Inferno in particular: it's the most grubby, psychologically weird, "human" part of the poem. Of course it is. Hell is meant to be baseness incarnate. The dead can't dissemble. What they were in life, they can't hide as they could when alive. Now, there's no question that Dante started the Inferno from an extreme low point in life, and it was a personal work. But it's pretty remarkably free of his own neuroses, and to a limited extent, his own biases. Among the few condemned in the Inferno treated with genuine respect and retaining some of their heroism from the world above are Farinata degli Uberti, the leading figure of the opposition in Florence from the previous generation, and Odysseus, the great big bad guy for a man who prided himself on being the heir of Virgil and had no access to the Iliad or Odyssey in his life.

    What it instead shows in vivid detail is hell not just as a literal, physical place in the mind of a medieval, parochial Catholic, which Dante unquestionably was. But as an apt insight into the consciences of the damned. Each circle of hell's punishment is not accidental: from the lustful being blown about the winds, showing their lack of self-control over physical appetites, to the traitors whose souls were so frozen that they violated the most sacred bonds in life, to family or guests or benefactors. It is an insightful treatise of self-destructive behavior, and how men engaging in it both love and fear it.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I like your description. I just note that Dante could be mighty petty about who he placed in eternal damnation.

  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 27, 2021 at 5:26 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words

    It’s starting to look like the open thread may be the only option we’re going to be left with if we want to continue at UR. I’ve just left a comment there (it’s comment 285 on Open Thread 5). It’s not an exciting comment. I just wanted to see if I got swarmed by nutters!

    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @dfordoom

    I just wanted to see if I got swarmed by nutters!

    I did my part.
  • nebulafox says:
    June 27, 2021 at 3:59 pm GMT •ï¿½300 Words
    @Corvinus
    @nebulafox

    "Reproduction? Humanity has a lot more mothers than fathers. Lot more males at the absolute top and absolute bottom of society for a reason. You become a man or you don’t in a way that has no analogue for women."

    I'm not sure that I follow here. Would you please clarify? Thanks.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    Mark Stoneking’s 2014 DNA analysis shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that more women than men successfully reproduced throughout the majority of human history. We, as a species, have a wider variety of female ancestors than male ones.

    This should not be shocking, on a number of levels. Men can theoretically get dozens of women pregnant within a single month. Whereas a woman can only pregnant from a single man for 9 months. That’s just biology at work. This drives male competition for women rather than the other way around. In primitive societies, that means the likely result is going to be some men dominating the gene pool and other men losing out on the mating game entirely.

    As for the rest: just go take a look at the proportion of male to female CEOs and billionaires, and male to female homeless and mentally ill people.

    The irony is, I don’t disagree at all with feminist talk about “glass ceilings”. They do exist, and for most of human history, used to be a lot stronger. They just don’t notice the other part of the dynamic. And I don’t think that focus is cynical. If you happen to be a Type A personality who has the abilities and drive to make it to the top, the ceiling is naturally what you’ll pay attention to, not the net. But they miss the fact that a man in the converse situation from theirs doesn’t really have an “opt out” option like they do. “Fragility” and “privilege” have little to do with why men respond so poorly to a lack of professional success or are unlikely to take pink-collar jobs: that’s a death sentence in attracting women, and they know it, regardless of what the New York Times claims. And that ties to the biological reality that if they make crucial “mistakes”, they won’t reproduce at all.

    Women have their own challenges, which are neither inherently better or worse. They are just different, with a different set of trade-offs that benefits or penalizes people individually. Among the unstated trade-offs is this: as a woman, you don’t have to get as much right in your perceptions about the opposite sex. I suspect that is part of the underlying growing male bitterness about mainstream discussions about gender.

    •ï¿½Thanks: Corvinus
    •ï¿½Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @nebulafox

    I hate to encourage anyone to respond to the troll Coronavirus, but this is a very good comment. The ideas were very well expressed by the good Professor Beaumeister here. Note that he wrote in a more innocent age, all of nine or so years ago - no one now would argue that mostly male CEOs or inventors meant men were 'better' than women, it would be prima facie evidence of the institutional and structural sexism inherent in ...

    http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Men go to extremes more than women. It’s true not just with IQ but also with other things, even height: The male distribution of height is flatter, with more really tall and really short men.

    Again, there is a reason for this, to which I shall return.

    For now, the point is that it explains how we can have opposite stereotypes. Men go to extremes more than women. Stereotypes are sustained by confirmation bias. Want to think men are better than women? Then look at the top, the heroes, the inventors, the philanthropists, and so on. Want to think women are better than men? Then look at the bottom, the criminals, the junkies, the losers.

    In an important sense, men really are better AND worse than women.

    Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.

    For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.

    For men, the outlook was radically different. If you go along with the crowd and play it safe, the odds are you won’t have children. Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends. Hence it was necessary to take chances, try new things, be creative, explore other possibilities. Sailing off into the unknown may be risky, and you might drown or be killed or whatever, but then again if you stay home you won’t reproduce anyway. We’re most descended from the type of men who made the risky voyage and managed to come back rich. In that case he would finally get a good chance to pass on his genes. We’re descended from men who took chances (and were lucky).

    The huge difference in reproductive success very likely contributed to some personality differences, because different traits pointed the way to success. Women did best by minimizing risks, whereas the successful men were the ones who took chances. Ambition and competitive striving probably mattered more to male success (measured in offspring) than female. Creativity was probably more necessary, to help the individual man stand out in some way. Even the sex drive difference was relevant: For many men, there would be few chances to reproduce and so they had to be ready for every sexual opportunity. If a man said “not today, I have a headache,†he might miss his only chance.

    Another crucial point. The danger of having no children is only one side of the male coin. Every child has a biological mother and father, and so if there were only half as many fathers as mothers among our ancestors, then some of those fathers had lots of children.

    Look at it this way. Most women have only a few children, and hardly any have more than a dozen — but many fathers have had more than a few, and some men have actually had several dozen, even hundreds of kids.

    My point is that no woman, even if she conquered twice as much territory as Genghis Khan, could have had a thousand children. Striving for greatness in that sense offered the human female no such biological payoff. For the man, the possibility was there, and so the blood of Genghis Khan runs through a large segment of today’s human population. By definition, only a few men can achieve greatness, but for the few men who do, the gains have been real.

    In terms of the biological competition to produce offspring, then, men outnumbered women both among the losers and among the biggest winners.
    �
    His comment about "women who played it safe" still applies, which is why the average woman in the West was conservative in the 50s and is 'radical' (as dictated by MSM) now. "Go along to get along".

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Triteleia Laxa, @Corvinus
  • nebulafox says:
    June 27, 2021 at 3:21 pm GMT •ï¿½400 Words
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @Almost Missouri

    I'll have to end my part in this discussion. Perhaps the Taliban didn't make all those laws against women that I listed, and perhaps they don't make Attwood's dystopia look Utopian for women; perhaps my experience was also an illusion, which I can't go into, but still!

    I don't think it is an exaggeration for me to say that your line seems to be that women have it great outside of the West, excluding FGM non-West, and awful within it - something about it valuing feminity.

    I've been to a lot of places and extremely strongly disagree.

    I've met no people who agree with you, who aren't men trying to justify a political programme of the essential enslavement of women, who typify, in their behaviour, unpleasant misogynistic stereotypes; but it is possible that I've just met the wrong people.

    I have only met a minute fraction of the world's population; but it is those that I've met, so we probably won't come to any sort of agreement.

    Is Shakespeare “pouring neuroses� Or is he politically uninterested? Goethe? Dante? Virgil? Homer? Dostoevsky? Basho?
    �
    Inferno is full of them. Crime and Punishment is them. The rest seem to have, at least, poured their own psychologies/spiritualities. This is a big topic though!

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @nebulafox

    I’d agree about Dostoevsky. Tolstoy is who you want to go by if you are a fundamentally well-adjusted, normal person. Dostoevsky is the guide for people who aren’t, which are a minority of the populace. I mean that without condemnation! You need both.

    But the Comedy… not as much. One of the interesting things about the Comedy is that Dante had multiple purposes for the work that might not come across to modern readers upon first glance. One of them was to serve as an encyclopedia of sorts. This was before Petrarch or the Greek exodus from the fall of Constantinople into Italy, remember. Dante had to teach himself and assemble his own education from scraps in a way that, say, Machiavelli never had to do. Dante found the medieval notion of life as a “vale of tears” profoundly repugnant, but also knew that most people would not have his patience or discipline to go hunting for general knowledge. The Comedy, written in Italian rather than Latin, was meant as a way to help people there.

    (He allowed himself no false modesty-and he noted in Purgatorio that Pride was the circle he feared the most, for good reason.)

    For the Inferno in particular: it’s the most grubby, psychologically weird, “human” part of the poem. Of course it is. Hell is meant to be baseness incarnate. The dead can’t dissemble. What they were in life, they can’t hide as they could when alive. Now, there’s no question that Dante started the Inferno from an extreme low point in life, and it was a personal work. But it’s pretty remarkably free of his own neuroses, and to a limited extent, his own biases. Among the few condemned in the Inferno treated with genuine respect and retaining some of their heroism from the world above are Farinata degli Uberti, the leading figure of the opposition in Florence from the previous generation, and Odysseus, the great big bad guy for a man who prided himself on being the heir of Virgil and had no access to the Iliad or Odyssey in his life.

    What it instead shows in vivid detail is hell not just as a literal, physical place in the mind of a medieval, parochial Catholic, which Dante unquestionably was. But as an apt insight into the consciences of the damned. Each circle of hell’s punishment is not accidental: from the lustful being blown about the winds, showing their lack of self-control over physical appetites, to the traitors whose souls were so frozen that they violated the most sacred bonds in life, to family or guests or benefactors. It is an insightful treatise of self-destructive behavior, and how men engaging in it both love and fear it.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @nebulafox

    I like your description. I just note that Dante could be mighty petty about who he placed in eternal damnation.
  • @dfordoom
    @Barbarossa


    It’s not really vibrator usage particularly, but that it represents just another piece in the continued disassociation of sexual behavior from not only reproduction, but even human interaction. I find widespread porn usage, sexbots, etc. to be just as disturbing.
    �
    I kind of agree, and disagree. Masturbation is nothing new. In a perfect world everybody has a happy fulfilling marriage which fully satisfies them sexually. But we've never lived in a perfect world. There have always been people who have, for whatever reasons, missed out on marriage. Human loneliness is nothing new. There have always been people who have found that marriage does not bring sexual fulfilment. Masturbation has always been one of the ways that people deal with this. Since it's nothing new I tend not to worry about it.

    Vibrators are not exactly new technology. They were invented in 1869. And even before they were invented women displayed extraordinary ingenuity and imagination in finding simple household implements to give themselves sexual pleasure. Women in ancient Greece were using dildos. Modern vibrators just do the job more efficiently, and probably a great deal more safely.

    It’s going to be a disaster, primarily for men, once mass market VR helmets coincide with the porn industry (which is already in the works).

    It really just another aspect of the continued atomization of all human relationships.
    �
    I agree. The biggest threat we face is not ideological but technological. It's technology that is doing more than anything else to produce an alienated atomised society. Television, personal computers, the internet, cell phones, social media, smartphones, dating apps - these have all been purely technological changes that have all reduced the amount of genuine social interaction.

    We need to rethink out attitude towards technology. We need to ask ourselves which of the many new technological gizmos invented in recent decades we really need, and which of those technologies are simply too harmful to be permitted. We need to do this, but we won't.

    A lot of negative social change has in fact been driven purely by technology.

    The dehumanization of sex almost makes one nostalgic for the good old days of promiscuity as a social issue! Ah for the days when pearls were clutched over youngsters having sex with real humans of the opposite sex!
    �
    Yes, you have a point! There was a time when parents' biggest worry was their youngsters necking at the drive-in. These days parents wish their kids would do something healthy and normal like necking at the drive-in.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @V. K. Ovelund

    A lot of negative social change has in fact been driven purely by technology.

    I completely agree with this and will push it to the next degree: negative social change has been driven even by medical technology.

    It is not easy to acknowledge that the world might be a better place if the modern medicine that has saved my life, my wife’s life, and some of my children’s lives did not exist, but unfortunately the message of Mouse Utopia has only confirmed personal observations. In an earlier, more tragic state, in which early death was a common fact of life, it would seem that the robust and the well rounded preferentially survived, with eugenic effect.

    I just went off on a tangent there, but can add little directly to your original point, which seems to me both correct and significant.

    Here is another, even more sharply divergent tangent: the death penalty is simpler, more traditional and less cruel than extended incarceration. Any crime that merits a prison sentence longer than ten years should probably again as aforetime be punished by the hangman’s noose. (I would prefer to be hanged, at any rate, than to spend�20 years among muscular negro felons at the state penitentiary.)

    •ï¿½Replies: @Barbarossa
    @V. K. Ovelund

    That basic line of thought is one that has struck me as well.
    To me it seems that a compelling case could be made against things like vaccines and other advanced medical innovations for increasing populations in an unsustainable way which does not necessarily lead to greater human fulfillment projected into the long term.
    It has always been striking to me that fully formed and functional societies do not require large population bases. Examples would be the Italian or Greek City States which had citizenry sometimes numbering only in the tens of thousands, yet having all the attributes of well rounded civilization.

    One of my critical principles on the modern world is based on size and scale. I'm convinced that as institutions increase in size they become less humane and less responsive to real human needs. It seems to me that there is perhaps an ideal organic scale for human societies which has been short circuited by technology, especially the greatly increased mobility of the 20th century.

    Beyond the eugenic biological argument I think there is an underlying philosophical change in one's outlook on life when health, comfort, and risk aversion are the norms. It seems to me that a higher danger/ risk environment leads to potentially more of a "Carpe Diem" attitude in life. I am really disheartened at the flaccid listlessness and lack of drive in many of the youngest generation coming up. It seems far worse than when I was even growing up, (which was not that long ago). I seems to come from an overprotective and over-structured environment choking off the drive for initiative and exploration. This is even seen in the many instances of younger generations being more hostile to things like free speech and more accepting of coercive political programs.


    It seems to me that life may have had a tad more urgency when it was not uncommon for otherwise healthy young people to be struck down by accident or disease. This doesn't seem to be an entirely bad thing to me since I don't think that seeking the greatest comfort is our highest goal in life. Suffering has value too.

    As you allude though, both yourself and myself have benefited from modern medicine, so this line of argument may be considered disingenuous by some. However, I have a relatively dangerous line of work personally, and having come within striking distance of biting the dust a couple times have found that it's only made me more set on living my life without moral compromise. My kids have a relatively "dangerous" old school upbringing too, living in the middle of nowhere, so we'll see what results that produces.

    I am personally opposed to the death penalty, although I understand your line of reasoning. My objection is more theological in nature as I don't think that we as humans have a right to kill another human in cold blood, even under the auspices of the state. That should be reserved for God alone. Even in cases of the seemingly irredeemable, it seems that the possibility for repentance must remain.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @iffen, @iffen
  • Sad, but understandable. The internet sucks now so it’s no fun, and 2020 made it a little too obvious that ignorance of hard reality isn’t really the issue (because the real issue is deficiency in moral courage), so there’s no point explaining anything unless you get off on it.

    Good luck out there in the desert of the real.

  • @Almost Missouri
    @Triteleia Laxa

    This "discussion" started when I pointed out that your assertion that The Handmaid's Tale was an accurate depiction of life in contemporary Saudi Arabia was utter bollocks. Rather than refute or concede the point, you repeated a bunch of mass media tropes about a different place that I hadn't mentioned, a place thousands of kilometers away from the place that I did mention, a place you apparently have no direct knowledge of either. When I pointed that out, you doubled down with the irrelevant strawmen, accused me of saying things I didn't say, and brought in what is apparently your idiosyncratic (mis)interpretation of a different discussion thread we had.

    So it is not really accurate to say you are ending this discussion, since avoiding what I actually said while randomly expostulating on your personal hobby horses (neuroses?) is not a discussion as traditionally understood. Ah well, I tried.

    As I've said before, I've found some of your commentary interesting and admirable. But for whatever reason, I failed to conjure any of that up from you on this subject.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I believe that our discussion was whether The Handmaid’s Tale was a reasonable dystopia, once you look at some of the conditions women live in around the world, and in recent history.

    If you look back through the thread, I offered the definition of “reasonable dystopia” as 1984 was to the USSR. I then argued that HMT is to various Muslim countries at the time, as that was.

    I stand by this.

    We can argue the relative degrees of obvious oppression in different places and times, but, while I may have details wrong or right, I don’t think they are going to be inaccurate enough to invalidate my broader point.

    I also don’t see a sensible way of measuring those disparities with an accuracy suitable to make more than the general point that I was trying to make.

    HMT is to conditions that some women lived in at the time as 1984 was to conditions that some people lived in at the time. Both were not an exact picture of anywhere in the world, certainly not the country they were set in, but that’s OK.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I offered the definition of “reasonable dystopia†as 1984 was to the USSR.
    �
    Eh? Dude, this is the first time anyone has mentioned the USSR on this page. It's also the first time you've used "reasonable" on this page.

    It seems that part of your discussions are occurring inside your own head, and only part of it occurs on the page where everyone else can see it. If you prefer keeping your arguments to yourself, that's fine, as it does save time. But it would have been nice to know that dialogue was only open to mind-readers.

    I then argued that HMT is to various Muslim countries at the time, as that was.
    �
    Except it wasn't, as already described, and anyhow Atwood specifically and explicitly intended it as a critique of the US, not of the Taliban, which no one had ever heard of when she wrote it. As a critique of the US it was laughably off target and it gets further off target every year.

    Meanwhile, the zealous and intolerant forces seizing control of government power are Atwood's own followers and fellow travellers, some of whom even dress up as characters in her book as a performative display of their fanaticism.

    So as a piece of "speculative fiction" it's an utter failure. At best it is just an extrusion of her own paranoid delusions, or possibly, as someone speculated above, her submission fantasy. But it has inspired many people to carry out the kinds of injustice and oppression she wrote about, only for the opposite purpose for which she described. And she likes that kind of injustice and oppression just fine.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  • @Triteleia Laxa
    @Almost Missouri

    I'll have to end my part in this discussion. Perhaps the Taliban didn't make all those laws against women that I listed, and perhaps they don't make Attwood's dystopia look Utopian for women; perhaps my experience was also an illusion, which I can't go into, but still!

    I don't think it is an exaggeration for me to say that your line seems to be that women have it great outside of the West, excluding FGM non-West, and awful within it - something about it valuing feminity.

    I've been to a lot of places and extremely strongly disagree.

    I've met no people who agree with you, who aren't men trying to justify a political programme of the essential enslavement of women, who typify, in their behaviour, unpleasant misogynistic stereotypes; but it is possible that I've just met the wrong people.

    I have only met a minute fraction of the world's population; but it is those that I've met, so we probably won't come to any sort of agreement.

    Is Shakespeare “pouring neuroses� Or is he politically uninterested? Goethe? Dante? Virgil? Homer? Dostoevsky? Basho?
    �
    Inferno is full of them. Crime and Punishment is them. The rest seem to have, at least, poured their own psychologies/spiritualities. This is a big topic though!

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @nebulafox

    This “discussion” started when I pointed out that your assertion that The Handmaid’s Tale was an accurate depiction of life in contemporary Saudi Arabia was utter bollocks. Rather than refute or concede the point, you repeated a bunch of mass media tropes about a different place that I hadn’t mentioned, a place thousands of kilometers away from the place that I did mention, a place you apparently have no direct knowledge of either. When I pointed that out, you doubled down with the irrelevant strawmen, accused me of saying things I didn’t say, and brought in what is apparently your idiosyncratic (mis)interpretation of a different discussion thread we had.

    So it is not really accurate to say you are ending this discussion, since avoiding what I actually said while randomly expostulating on your personal hobby horses (neuroses?) is not a discussion as traditionally understood. Ah well, I tried.

    As I’ve said before, I’ve found some of your commentary interesting and admirable. But for whatever reason, I failed to conjure any of that up from you on this subject.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Almost Missouri

    I believe that our discussion was whether The Handmaid’s Tale was a reasonable dystopia, once you look at some of the conditions women live in around the world, and in recent history.

    If you look back through the thread, I offered the definition of "reasonable dystopia" as 1984 was to the USSR. I then argued that HMT is to various Muslim countries at the time, as that was.

    I stand by this.

    We can argue the relative degrees of obvious oppression in different places and times, but, while I may have details wrong or right, I don't think they are going to be inaccurate enough to invalidate my broader point.

    I also don't see a sensible way of measuring those disparities with an accuracy suitable to make more than the general point that I was trying to make.

    HMT is to conditions that some women lived in at the time as 1984 was to conditions that some people lived in at the time. Both were not an exact picture of anywhere in the world, certainly not the country they were set in, but that's OK.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri
  • @RogerL
    @Triteleia Laxa

    You said:
    A more pertinent question than “why are there very few women here†would be “why are there any women here at all?â€

    Previously I asked:
    Why have a significant number of women been participating in this blog?

    Did you ever explain why you are participating in this blog?

    I've been watching for this, and didn't see it. So far I haven't seen any women explain why they continue to comment on this blog, in spite of the negative responses they often get.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    Why have a significant number of women been participating in this blog

    I’d argue that it is an “insignificant” number, and circling zero.

  • @Almost Missouri
    @Triteleia Laxa


    The Taliban banned women ... [blah, blah, blah].
    �
    Did I say anything about the Taliban?

    I will say that one thing I've learned is that my firsthand experience so often contradicts whatever the major media are shilling that it would be foolish to accept the media's pronouncements on any subject at face value. Taliban included.

    I am sure that Attwood poured her neuroses into her work, like 99% of politically interested people do,
    �
    Is Shakespeare "pouring neuroses"? Or is he politically uninterested? Goethe? Dante? Virgil? Homer? Dostoevsky? Basho?

    but these problems really exist.
    �
    Which problems? The Taliban? (See above.) Or the non-existent future dystopia Atwood made up?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I’ll have to end my part in this discussion. Perhaps the Taliban didn’t make all those laws against women that I listed, and perhaps they don’t make Attwood’s dystopia look Utopian for women; perhaps my experience was also an illusion, which I can’t go into, but still!

    I don’t think it is an exaggeration for me to say that your line seems to be that women have it great outside of the West, excluding FGM non-West, and awful within it – something about it valuing feminity.

    I’ve been to a lot of places and extremely strongly disagree.

    I’ve met no people who agree with you, who aren’t men trying to justify a political programme of the essential enslavement of women, who typify, in their behaviour, unpleasant misogynistic stereotypes; but it is possible that I’ve just met the wrong people.

    I have only met a minute fraction of the world’s population; but it is those that I’ve met, so we probably won’t come to any sort of agreement.

    Is Shakespeare “pouring neuroses� Or is he politically uninterested? Goethe? Dante? Virgil? Homer? Dostoevsky? Basho?

    Inferno is full of them. Crime and Punishment is them. The rest seem to have, at least, poured their own psychologies/spiritualities. This is a big topic though!

    •ï¿½Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Triteleia Laxa

    This "discussion" started when I pointed out that your assertion that The Handmaid's Tale was an accurate depiction of life in contemporary Saudi Arabia was utter bollocks. Rather than refute or concede the point, you repeated a bunch of mass media tropes about a different place that I hadn't mentioned, a place thousands of kilometers away from the place that I did mention, a place you apparently have no direct knowledge of either. When I pointed that out, you doubled down with the irrelevant strawmen, accused me of saying things I didn't say, and brought in what is apparently your idiosyncratic (mis)interpretation of a different discussion thread we had.

    So it is not really accurate to say you are ending this discussion, since avoiding what I actually said while randomly expostulating on your personal hobby horses (neuroses?) is not a discussion as traditionally understood. Ah well, I tried.

    As I've said before, I've found some of your commentary interesting and admirable. But for whatever reason, I failed to conjure any of that up from you on this subject.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    , @nebulafox
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I'd agree about Dostoevsky. Tolstoy is who you want to go by if you are a fundamentally well-adjusted, normal person. Dostoevsky is the guide for people who aren't, which are a minority of the populace. I mean that without condemnation! You need both.

    But the Comedy... not as much. One of the interesting things about the Comedy is that Dante had multiple purposes for the work that might not come across to modern readers upon first glance. One of them was to serve as an encyclopedia of sorts. This was before Petrarch or the Greek exodus from the fall of Constantinople into Italy, remember. Dante had to teach himself and assemble his own education from scraps in a way that, say, Machiavelli never had to do. Dante found the medieval notion of life as a "vale of tears" profoundly repugnant, but also knew that most people would not have his patience or discipline to go hunting for general knowledge. The Comedy, written in Italian rather than Latin, was meant as a way to help people there.

    (He allowed himself no false modesty-and he noted in Purgatorio that Pride was the circle he feared the most, for good reason.)

    For the Inferno in particular: it's the most grubby, psychologically weird, "human" part of the poem. Of course it is. Hell is meant to be baseness incarnate. The dead can't dissemble. What they were in life, they can't hide as they could when alive. Now, there's no question that Dante started the Inferno from an extreme low point in life, and it was a personal work. But it's pretty remarkably free of his own neuroses, and to a limited extent, his own biases. Among the few condemned in the Inferno treated with genuine respect and retaining some of their heroism from the world above are Farinata degli Uberti, the leading figure of the opposition in Florence from the previous generation, and Odysseus, the great big bad guy for a man who prided himself on being the heir of Virgil and had no access to the Iliad or Odyssey in his life.

    What it instead shows in vivid detail is hell not just as a literal, physical place in the mind of a medieval, parochial Catholic, which Dante unquestionably was. But as an apt insight into the consciences of the damned. Each circle of hell's punishment is not accidental: from the lustful being blown about the winds, showing their lack of self-control over physical appetites, to the traitors whose souls were so frozen that they violated the most sacred bonds in life, to family or guests or benefactors. It is an insightful treatise of self-destructive behavior, and how men engaging in it both love and fear it.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 27, 2021 at 5:08 am GMT •ï¿½300 Words
    @Barbarossa
    @dfordoom

    I would say that blaming Christianity is a bit of an overly simplistic answer. The Middle Ages seem like they were overall rather lusty times, though often to the consternation of the clergy.

    I think you are right when you center it more on Protestantism. I would place modern sexual dysfunction in the Anglosphere mostly upon the prudishness of the Victorians. They really had some strange hangups in that department. That would also explain why it's more of an issue in the Anglosphere and not across other parts of Christendom like France or Spain which seem to preserve more of that Catholic lustiness.

    The Victorians seemed intent upon making anything surrounding sex a regrettable and unmentionable, if necessary, chore.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    I think you are right when you center it more on Protestantism. I would place modern sexual dysfunction in the Anglosphere mostly upon the prudishness of the Victorians.

    That would also explain why it’s more of an issue in the Anglosphere and not across other parts of Christendom like France or Spain which seem to preserve more of that Catholic lustiness.

    I think that a lot of people in the Anglosphere are not really aware of the extent to which they are still influenced by those Victorian sexual attitudes. You can see that in some of the comments on this thread – the idea that there’s something immoral about a woman who wants sexual pleasure simply for the sake of sexual pleasure.

    The Victorians seemed intent upon making anything surrounding sex a regrettable and unmentionable, if necessary, chore.

    Victorian attitudes towards sex are really really fascinating. There were doctors at that time who didn’t believe women were capable of having orgasms and there were other doct0rs who believed that regular orgasms were essential for women’s mental health (which is why Victorian doctors invented the vibrator). Victorian ideas on sex were all over the place.

    I talk about some of this stuff (love, sex, marriage) quite frequently on my blog, most recently in my review of Michael Mason’s The Making of Victorian Sexual Attitudes.

    Since AE’s blog is shutting down I’ll take the liberty of linking to my blog (for anyone who might be interested) –

    https://anotherpoliticallyincorrectblog.blogspot.com/

    And here’s the direct link to my review of Mason’s book –

    https://tinyurl.com/4myxfvby

    •ï¿½Agree: Barbarossa
  • @Almost Missouri
    @dfordoom

    Agree.

    I think the AE recipe had two main ingredients for success: 1) incisive stats, delivered in a mild, mid-tier way, and 2) tidy, even-handed comment moderation.

    I think the latter is second-nature to mild-mannered, tolerant Midwesterners such as AE, so it could be readily reproduced by others who are cut from the same cloth. Maybe AE could at least clue us in to how much time he spent on comment moderation versus posting preparation?

    The former is a little harder to reproduce. I would guess that AE had set things up a bit to make it easier on himself in somewhat the following way: pre-downloaded all the GSS datasets that his posts generally relied on, had semi-digested tables or spreadsheets of data already made that could be applied to various subjects, and had statistical, software and spreadsheet shortcuts which allowed him quickly to generate answers to questions as they occurred to him. Perhaps if someone were willing to take up the mantle of Epigonism, AE would be willing to share some tips and tricks of his "rig".

    AE's type of statistical analysis has high fixed costs—or upfront investment costs—but lower variable costs once the initial investment is made. This is why analysis tends to be done in depth by a few highly motivated people rather casually by many people. ("Casually by many people" = commenters.)

    Replies: @Audacious Epigone

    Comment moderation is a heavy upfront cost. Once good faith commenters are identified and put on auto approve, things get quite a bit easier. The GSS is accessible online (see here). Datasets can be downloaded but they don’t need to be.

  • @dfordoom
    @Almost Missouri



    quite a few women find it difficult to reach orgasm through intercourse.
    �
    I hear this kind of thing occasionally. My impression from—ahem—various sources is that this is more of a problem in the Angloshpere than elsewhere
    �
    In the West, and perhaps especially in the Protestant-dominated Anglosphere, there's the problem of sexual guilt and that has a lot to do with Christianity.

    My guess is that some women find it difficult to be sufficiently relaxed to really enjoy intercourse. They may feel shame if they seem to be enjoying it too much - what if he thinks I'm a slut? They may just feel embarrassed.

    They can have orgasms with a vibrator because there's no-one else there to make them feel embarrassed or ashamed. They also don't have to feel embarrassed about expressing their pleasure vocally.

    From what I've read on the subject failure to achieve orgasm through intercourse is a very widespread problem among women.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I would say that blaming Christianity is a bit of an overly simplistic answer. The Middle Ages seem like they were overall rather lusty times, though often to the consternation of the clergy.

    I think you are right when you center it more on Protestantism. I would place modern sexual dysfunction in the Anglosphere mostly upon the prudishness of the Victorians. They really had some strange hangups in that department. That would also explain why it’s more of an issue in the Anglosphere and not across other parts of Christendom like France or Spain which seem to preserve more of that Catholic lustiness.

    The Victorians seemed intent upon making anything surrounding sex a regrettable and unmentionable, if necessary, chore.

    •ï¿½Replies: @dfordoom
    @Barbarossa


    I think you are right when you center it more on Protestantism. I would place modern sexual dysfunction in the Anglosphere mostly upon the prudishness of the Victorians.
    �

    That would also explain why it’s more of an issue in the Anglosphere and not across other parts of Christendom like France or Spain which seem to preserve more of that Catholic lustiness.
    �
    I think that a lot of people in the Anglosphere are not really aware of the extent to which they are still influenced by those Victorian sexual attitudes. You can see that in some of the comments on this thread - the idea that there's something immoral about a woman who wants sexual pleasure simply for the sake of sexual pleasure.

    The Victorians seemed intent upon making anything surrounding sex a regrettable and unmentionable, if necessary, chore.
    �
    Victorian attitudes towards sex are really really fascinating. There were doctors at that time who didn't believe women were capable of having orgasms and there were other doct0rs who believed that regular orgasms were essential for women's mental health (which is why Victorian doctors invented the vibrator). Victorian ideas on sex were all over the place.

    I talk about some of this stuff (love, sex, marriage) quite frequently on my blog, most recently in my review of Michael Mason’s The Making of Victorian Sexual Attitudes.

    Since AE's blog is shutting down I'll take the liberty of linking to my blog (for anyone who might be interested) -

    https://anotherpoliticallyincorrectblog.blogspot.com/

    And here's the direct link to my review of Mason's book -

    https://tinyurl.com/4myxfvby
  • @res
    @res

    Another marker. TL made a quite reasonable comment replying to my final comment there which shows up in my comment feed but not in the thread view. Odd. Recording it here for reference.

    @res

    I thought somewhat dishonest was fairly light criticism. What would you suggest instead? Misleading?

    �
    This is just a observation; so please don't bite my head off for it.

    I would, personally, be extremely hesitant to question someone's (conscious) sincerity. I feel it would immediately make discussion pointless and be placing them in some sort of "enemy" category, where the stakes are high and the game is zero sum. I also feel that it would be me just being extremely paranoid were I to do it. You clearly disagree for some reason, but I don't understand why?
    �

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    I’ve had some unusual comment bounces here lately too. Not the type (comment in commenter history but not original thread) you describe though.

    I thought it was just me.

  • @John Johnson
    @Dumbo

    It is stupid to lose your fertile years having sex with several supposed alphas and then ending up a cat lady, or as a single mom (with a mulatto baby perhaps).

    I know several attractive white women, now in their thirties, they didn’t marry, have no kids, they just pursued their “career†and “casual sexâ€, now they are increasingly desperate and you see them posting increasingly insane virtual-signalling stuff on social media about saving the whales in Tibet or black children in the Amazon.

    I wouldn't pass too much judgement on them. Most were indoctrinated.

    I worked around liberal White women and there was a much bigger problem with them holding out for a White man that was already taken. They were all waiting for a man that checked the right amount of boxes and not really getting that there is no secret supply of White collar White men that smell nice and vote Democrat.

    They weren't hitting the bars either. Most were going home to watch TV. One spoke of her dog as if it was her boyfriend. It was really sad. If someone brought in kids their female genes did not go unnoticed. Liberalism tries to program women into thinking that kids will not make them happy and yet I've never met a woman with kids that was as unhappy as a liberal cat mom. It's all a lie.

    It isn't so much that they never wanted children or wanted to slut it up for years. Those women are out there but most got some stupid liberal arts degree and now think they are part of the Smart Class and as such expect a White man with minimal build/height/career/etc. The liberal men they work with are pretty much ignored and get friend zoned. By the time they realize they were too picky their options are even more limited. This is a huge problem that no one seems to be addressing.

    Replies: @WorkingClass, @nebulafox, @Stan d Mute, @YetAnotherAnon, @Curle, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    “One spoke of her dog as if it was her boyfriend. It was really sad. . . . ”

    Funny you should mention that. Not too long ago in a small Southern city (which will remain nameless to protect the innocent), a single white woman in her mid-forties was observed by her neighbors as she had sex with her pit bull in her backyard in broad daylight. This happened in an older, but still solidly upper middle class neighborhood.

    She still has a court date.

    •ï¿½Replies: @iffen
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    TMI

    Stop it!
  • @Triteleia Laxa
    @Almost Missouri


    YetAnotherAnon is right: Margaret Atwood is not a serious person and her “political†literature is nothing more than externalization of her personal neuroses
    �
    The Taliban banned women from having jobs, from education, from being seen in public, they could not speak with men who weren't direct blood relatives, could not have their voice heard by strangers, could not be on balconies and were therefore essentially imprisoned in their apartments, in the dark, from the age of 8 onwards.

    Their husbands could beat, rape and treat them however they wanted, which made their prison less respectful of their humanity, quite often, than a real prison would be. It is not like Taliban men are great respecters of women, after all; given the laws above.

    I am sure that Attwood poured her neuroses into her work, like 99% of politically interested people do, but these problems really exist.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    The Taliban banned women … [blah, blah, blah].

    Did I say anything about the Taliban?

    I will say that one thing I’ve learned is that my firsthand experience so often contradicts whatever the major media are shilling that it would be foolish to accept the media’s pronouncements on any subject at face value. Taliban included.

    I am sure that Attwood poured her neuroses into her work, like 99% of politically interested people do,

    Is Shakespeare “pouring neuroses”? Or is he politically uninterested? Goethe? Dante? Virgil? Homer? Dostoevsky? Basho?

    but these problems really exist.

    Which problems? The Taliban? (See above.) Or the non-existent future dystopia Atwood made up?

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Almost Missouri

    I'll have to end my part in this discussion. Perhaps the Taliban didn't make all those laws against women that I listed, and perhaps they don't make Attwood's dystopia look Utopian for women; perhaps my experience was also an illusion, which I can't go into, but still!

    I don't think it is an exaggeration for me to say that your line seems to be that women have it great outside of the West, excluding FGM non-West, and awful within it - something about it valuing feminity.

    I've been to a lot of places and extremely strongly disagree.

    I've met no people who agree with you, who aren't men trying to justify a political programme of the essential enslavement of women, who typify, in their behaviour, unpleasant misogynistic stereotypes; but it is possible that I've just met the wrong people.

    I have only met a minute fraction of the world's population; but it is those that I've met, so we probably won't come to any sort of agreement.

    Is Shakespeare “pouring neuroses� Or is he politically uninterested? Goethe? Dante? Virgil? Homer? Dostoevsky? Basho?
    �
    Inferno is full of them. Crime and Punishment is them. The rest seem to have, at least, poured their own psychologies/spiritualities. This is a big topic though!

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @nebulafox
  • @Triteleia Laxa
    @Almost Missouri


    I hear this kind of thing occasionally. My impression from—ahem—various sources is that this is more of a problem in the Angloshpere than elsewhere (leaving aside the clitoridectomal cultures).

    Or stated another way, the more Western (not geographically but culturally) a culture is, the more defeminized the women are
    �
    You think the women in the Middle East, Africa and Asia are all totally orgasmic all of the time?

    I am using hyperbole, but the ordinary perception is that you've gotten this backwards.

    Are there any specific reasons you think the way you do?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    You think the women in the Middle East, Africa and Asia are all totally orgasmic all of the time?

    Hmm, I wrote, “leaving aside the clitoridectomal cultures”, and the first thing you want to do is go headfirst into clitoridectomy climes.

    Are there any specific reasons you think the way you do?

    Yes. As with many great scientific principles, it started as a personal observation, which I assumed was just something peculiar to me. But then I began hearing the same from others, and even alleged academic research. The fact that the Pome-Oz Axis is spamming up this thread with lots of comments to the effect of, “Why, of course it is totally natural for our women to have the electric grid plugged into their cooches!” is perhaps the final proof.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Almost Missouri

    I see that the content in the link to the archive.org article that I cited has been wiped. Apparently the Left has finally carried out their threat censor hatefacts even from neutral platforms like the Wayback Machine. To complete my comment (which was referring to the 9th and 10th paragraphs of this classic), and so that Mr. Locklin's hilarious article will not perish from the earth, I am reproducing it below the "MORE" tag. His original article also had many internal hyperlinks (and humorously placed images), which I won't reproduce, partly because it would be very time consuming, and partly because I suspect that the content at the other end of those hyperlinks has also already been purged in the Left's digital book burning campaign.



    Monday, 05 April 2010

    The Case For Open Borders
    Foreign Replacements for American Women
    By Scott Locklin

    Most people on the Alternative Right are decidedly not in favor of our open-border policy in the United States. They complain of the program of race replacement, foreigners stealing our jeeeebs, committing crimes, and generally lowering the property values in the joint. I sympathize with these arguments, but, personally, I hope we make allowances for the kind of immigration I like to date. You see, I belong to an oppressed sexual minority: American men who prefer foreign women. There is power in naming things, and so I'll just come out and say it: I am an American xenosexual man.

    It took me a while to come to realize my sexual preference. It was never conscious until fairly recently, and I figure it's time for me to come out of the closet, so my xenosexual brothers won't feel alone. It isn't a realization that I'm particularly happy to have had, as it makes life in the Republic incredibly inconvenient. In my long and sordid career as a bachelor, the only women I have been able to maintain a romantic relationship with have been at least raised in other countries.

    I'm sure this statement is causing American female upper lips to distort into a snarl. "Oh, another insecure man who is intimidated by an empowered woman!" -- this is how it usually goes. This sentence captures, in essence, what is psychologically wrong with American women for a man of my sexual preference.

    First of all, the facts are wrong. If I were insecure, I wouldn't have written this. Also, the women I've been able to deal with for longer than a year or two had job titles like, "SAW gunner," "machine learning engineer," and "scientist." These are very likely to be considerably more "empowered" job titles than anyone reading this in a high moral dudgeon will ever achieve. If you disagree, and think your job is much more awesome than these, I suggest you take it up with the SAW gunner. Secondly, one of the excellent things about foreign women is they rarely try to cut your metaphorical testicles off with ridiculous shaming language. American women by contrast, don't seem capable of communication without bagging on some poor man. Being an unpleasant, confrontational, sarcastic grouch seems to have become a sort of gender duty of American women. The rest of the world sees that as bad manners. Finally, the dribbling self-entitlement and totalitarian-princess gall of it all. Why should anyone care if I won't date American women? It is simply my preference: as worthy of respect and approbation as the preference to not date any women. I count many American women as close friends, confidantes and family members. I love American women! I just don't want to date them.

    Other varieties of women don't get so upset about men not liking their kind so much. As a social experiment, I once told a beautiful and talented Russian girl I had a problem with depressing crazy drunkard Russian girls. She agreed with me that most Russian girls are crazy, depressing and drink too much, pointed out the good sides of Russians (hotness, passion, femininity), and noticed that she's actually not really so Russian: she was from a tribe in Russia known for its cheerfulness and moderation. This anecdote illustrates an important difference between domestic and imported females. When faced with an outcome they do not like, American woman will become disagreeable. The foreign woman will become more feminine and seductive; a tactic I have few powers to resist. Since I am not a masochist who enjoys being menaced by angry harridans with rolling pins, this causes me to like the imported models better. I know, I know, my sexual preference is weird and kind of hard to wrap your brain around, but I can't help it. Like many men who were afflicted with a non-standard sexual preference, I'm pretty sure I was born this way.

    While my preference is intensely emotional, being wrought in my own sense of extreme heterosexuality, I also look at it as intensely logical. I buy and sell for a living. American women are a bad investment. You see, I'm a very busy man: I'm trying to build a business, create American jobs and generate wealth to help bail us out of the horrible mess we are in. American women get upset when you're not paying attention to them, and do things like start an argument about where to put your goldfish. Foreign women do things like try to help when you are busy.

    Many American women are also wrapped up in status monkey games (muuuust get big house) and the consumer gerbil wheel. Even if I were to find an American woman who makes the kind of dough I do, she'd likely spend the pair of us into penury before I am able to hire anybody. Foreign women generally come from less prosperous nations, and so they're less interested in purchasing an enormous McMansion and stuffing it full of plastic tchotchkes along with a couple of neurotic crotch fruit. Foreign women believe in thrift, rather than conspicuous consumption.

    American women also tend to believe in deeply unattractive insanity like "gender as social construct feminism," astrology, socialism, putting unsightly tattoos all over their bodies, and moral relativism of all kinds. I have yet to figure out why anybody would contract any kind of alliance with a moral relativist. Foreign women have seen these bad ideas disproved on a daily basis in their lives in less civilized nations, so they believe in things like common sense. I know this probably seems incredibly selfish of me, and perhaps some people think I should be a good fellow and pay more attention to where I put my goldfish, but as a productive member of society, I feel it is my patriotic duty to do my bit to help solve the economic crisis. I figure the slouchy hipsters with nothing better to do can go argue with American women about their goldfish to keep them happy while I'm off doing useful work.

    American women have a weird relationship with sex. They're known the world over as loose women. Yet, sex with an American woman is a study in time-motion efficiency at best. Back in my academic days, I once taught an Italian grad student how to pick up girls on the internets: probably the only useful thing I ever taught anybody in an academic setting. Being Italian, he quickly became better at it than I was, but after his first couple of successes he came to my office with a troubled brow. "Scott, what is wrong with American women? I don't want to brag, but I am good at sex. These women, they don't come when I fuck them." It took considerable powers of persuasion to convince him that the average American female needs to be worked over with power tools, months of therapy, and various acts considered signs of deviant madness by the American Psychological Association 50 years ago, in order to experience authentic genital quakes with someone else present in the room.

    This isn't just the anecdotal evidence of a couple of science nerds sitting around the synchrotron, there have been scientific studies done on this subject. The vaginal orgasm is observably going away, both in the United States and Western Europe. There are certainly exceptions to all this, but the vaginal orgasm is so elusive among American females, it is widely considered to be a myth among the educated classes. Everywhere else in the world, it's considered the normal way of conducting business. I have no idea how this came about; ideas I've come up with include epigenetics, poisonous feminism, hormonal imbalances, outbreeding depression, and inability to relax. Some researchers have pointed out that a likely cause is improper sex education that focuses on the clitoris... Basically, American women jerk off too much to derive any pleasure from normal, or even heroic heterosexual, intercourse. A parsimonious explanation, somewhat borne out by my personal investigations into the subject.

    Apparently most American men don't mind that their snuggle bunnies might as well be doing their taxes while they drill for gold, or else they enjoy the manly hobby of weilding power tools even in the boudoir, or perhaps some enjoy dictating Tolstoy with the tips of their tongues every night. Well, that is their preference. While power tools and Tolstoy have their charms, I like the old fashioned kind of sex better, and the imported models are the ones dishing it out.

    And what of poise, style and feminine grace? Most of you Americans won't know what I am talking about here, because you haven't been around enough foreign women. American women do things like eat while they're walking down the boulevard. Foreign women know this is horrifically gauche, to say nothing of fattening, so they don't do it. Foreign women are too busy trying to balance a plate on their head to shove cupcakes in their mouths while they walk about.

    Fashion? Foreign women unashamedly wear dresses. American women wear clothing designed to disguise the fact that they are actually female. American women ... they do not sashay or glide like the old fashioned foreigners do: they gambol and gesticulate like something out of the ape cage at the zoo. When they're trying to be "feminine," an American woman will do something like deploy her decolletage like a couple of battleship cannons. While I guess there is something appealing about gratuitous baboon displays of secondary sexual characteristics, it's a rather crude gambit to my rarified xenosexual senses. A foreign woman can dangle her shoe at me with a naughty smirk, and I will forget all about the battleship cannons seated at the bar next to her. Granted, most American men seem to prefer to be bludgeoned with female battleship cannons; I know I'm the weird one here. Maybe the dress thing is atavistic , or maybe it's because I understand how fermentation works that I don't care for girls in pants. I guess most American men prefer that women wear the pants.

    The dimensions of modern American women are worth a mention. The average American woman is 5'4" and tips the scales at 164lbs with a 37" waist size. Being a squirrely little man of the exact average height and weight for an American male, I only have a 31" waist, and so, well, I have to admit, the average, um, "curvy" American woman is certainly of a size that I find rather intimidating. By my calculations, that puts the average American female at approximately 39 percent bodyfat. Normal would be something like 16 percent, yielding a surplus of 38 lbs of fat per woman. There are about 150 million American women, giving us a grand total of 5.7 billion pounds of unsightly excess lard. To get an idea of how obscene this is, 7lbs of fat are about equivalent in energy expenditure to a gallon of petrochemical fuel. Each Saturn-V rocket, the awe-inspiring monstrosities that hurled 1960s era Freemasons to the moon, contained only 960,000 gallons of fuel. Waving my hands over the stoichiometry, this means there is enough excess libido destroying pork butter on American womanhood to power 5900 or so manned moon missions. While American men may like their women on the chunky side, I consider it incredibly wasteful that all this high fructose corn syrup goes to expand female waistlines when it could be used to power space ships to the moon. No, no, I prefer the old fashioned kind of females who have bellies considerably smaller than my own; you know, like the foreign ones.

    Then there is the idea of physical fitness among American women. Foreign women define physical fitness as being slim and feminine. American women think it is OK to be as fat as they like, so long as they can run a marathon or go on grueling hikes in the woods. Well, that's OK I guess; physical fitness is important, but if you're carrying around 30lbs of lard, I'm still not going to find you as attractive as a skinny but lazy Romanian or Vietnamese woman. Since I'm trying to find a date, rather than looking for someone to plough my fields, serve as an emergency food supply, or staff a private army, the whole fitness thing isn't so important to me as the aesthetics of slender arms and waists.

    I'm pretty sure there is a hormonal component to the whole thing. Look, for example, at these American movie stars of yesteryear, Hedy Lamarr and Lillian Gish below. Beautiful, feminine, wholesome even, and dripping with estrogen. This is the kind of woman that appeals to xenosexuals like myself; they used to make them right here in America, back when Americans actually made things. Now we must make do with imports.

    By contrast we have Erin Anderson and Anna Paquin (technically Kiwi: humor me) below, rated 14 and 79 in this year's "Top 99 most desirable women" by Ask Men. They both have the hatchet jaws, neanderthal brow ridges and beady eyes of a male to female transsexual. These physical features are caused by male hormones like testosterone. What could be going on here? Phthalates? Birth control pills? Virilization through yoyo dieting? It is a long story how this works, but even kids notice that fat ladies often have mustaches. Could it be a side effect of female hypergamy as F. Roger Devlin and the notorious Roissy have posited? Meaning, do women who have sampled too many Vienna sausages on the peen chuckwagon develop some sort of endocrinological issues? Or perhaps because modern American women are encouraged to compete and fight like a man, their adrenal glands have released enough androgens to visibly change them. Think about that for a minute: American feminism might have changed women physically.

    I'm nothing like an endocrinologist, and I've never done the calculations to see if this could theoretically happen, but the adrenal glands do release testosterone, and the adrenals are used a lot more by disagreeable grouchy American women than feminine foreigners. American men have been looking pretty testosterone deficient in recent years; perhaps they are seeking out something they lack? By contrast, I have an endocrinological disorder cursing me with a high level of testosterone; it comes from my birth into the violent working classes and is exacerbated by my habit of eating too much red meat and lifting enormous barbells in the gym. As such, I don't care so much for the Popeye chin on the ladies. I like the ones with nice oval shaped faces and soft neonatal features, like Hedy Lamarr (who, by the way, was also a certifiable genius).

    [image]
    Numbers 14 and 73 most attractive women in the world according to dystopian universe of Ask Men

    The irreplaceable Roissy posted a sociological article about Kazakh perceptions of different nationalities of women that sums it up better than I ever could. Borat's description of American women:
    American woman is described in quite contradictory way. Most amazing is a negative estimation of her appearance. There are many variations on this topic: not well-groomed, not stylish, does not dress well, not fashionable clothes, not ironed shorts and T-shirt, sleepers, put on bare feet, elderly woman in shorts, emancipated woman, for whom it is not important how she looks, a girl without make-up, happy fatty woman, stout and shapeless person, a short hair-cut, a knapsack, waddling walk, tennis shoes, dentures, plain, manlike, unisex.

    Borat speaks the truth; no political correctness there, and Borat's women folk won't menace him with a rolling pin for noticing the obvious. "Not that there is anything wrong with that," as Seinfeld put it. Different kinds of men have different preferences and all that. If you like "stout and shapeless persons," all the more power to you.

    It doesn't matter to me where they're from. I don't discriminate against foreign women by race, color or creed: every variety of imported female I know of is better on average than the domestic kinds. Now that America consists of all sorts of racial types, you can no longer tell a foreign woman by an exotic complexion. But we xenosexual men will be able to tell. My F.O.B.-dar is so finely tuned, I can spot a Russian, Eritrean or Serb at 50 paces, and I'll know if a Korean in America was raised in Los Angeles or is from the old country long before she opens her mouth. They seem to do a decent job of finding me as well; perhaps they notice my surfeit of self-respect compared to other American men -- that's how I spot my xenosexual brothers.

    So, immigration haters, give a care to your less fortunate xenosexual brothers. Would you condemn us to a lifetime of loneliness, or force us into the arms of women we don't find attractive? I suspect American male xenosexuality might be a bigger phenomenon than was heretofore realized, so I encourage the lot of you to come out of the closet with me. I know Derb is on board. So are such notable conservatives as Fred Reed, and Roissy; even Mel Gibson -- men who have seen a bit of life, and know what they like. Open wide the gates!

    [image]
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

    [image]
    Not an American woman

    Post Scriptum: No American women were harmed in researching this essay, despite what they may say.

    Replies: @Barbarossa
  • @dfordoom
    @iffen


    I don’t know why “we†couldn’t at least give it a try. Numerous regular AE commenters have expressed an interest in maintaining contact. It is an open thread so we can shake the guilt feeling for going off topic.

    �
    Well I'd be prepared to give it a go. What the heck.

    The only problem that I foresee is that the number that can be placed on the CTI list is limited.
    �
    Yeah, that's the problem I foresee. I'd be putting a lot of regular commenters on that open thread on Ignore. A lot. But I guess that's doable.

    The trick is disciplining oneself not to respond to the crazies.

    Replies: @iffen

    The trick is disciplining oneself not to respond to the crazies.

    Appears to be some sort of personal problem.

    I can do it without discipline.

  • @Barbarossa
    @dfordoom

    I agree with iffen that it could be given a whirl if ID's petition comes to naught. It seems like it might be possible to carve out a space which is relatively nutter free.

    I share your allergy to the Jewish monomania. I feel like pre-Covid, Unz was turning into all Jews, all the time, which was tiresome. It seems to have found a somewhat better balance lately.

    I don't care if there are some hardcore Jew haters or racists around, but any time one myopically focuses on a single cause to explain everything on earth it gets boring and annoying really fast.

    That was one of the great things about AE. While he didn't shy away from talking about Jews, race, sex, or any other hot button topic, it was always done with great nuance.

    Replies: @iffen

    it might be possible to carve out a space which is relatively nutter free.

    LOL

    I thought that we wanted a space for the AE commentariat.

    •ï¿½LOL: dfordoom
  • @res
    @iffen


    If you are interested in continuing our exchange on soft anti-Semitism, and whether you and I qualify, post a comment on the open thread and I will respond. I am interested in continuing.
    �
    I'm interested as well. Busy today, but leaving this reply as a marker.

    P.S. Doing it in those open threads might get interesting. IIRC lots of strong opinions there.

    Replies: @res, @iffen

    Great. I learn a lot more and think better with the stimulus of dialogue.

    Just to tell you, we are on a disconnect on some planes, but it doesn’t bother me, so maybe the same with you.

  • @Triteleia Laxa
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Would you be willing to follow in Audacious Epigone's footsteps, to take bold risks in your posts, even as his inferior?

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I was making a silly joke AE; about your name. Not trying to be rude.

    •ï¿½LOL: Audacious Epigone
  • @Almost Missouri
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I care. I like reading your writing. I would like it even more if I could read it at Unz.com, since then I wouldn't have to remember to check your above-linked blog.

    (If you don't mind my mentioning it though, it wasn't clear—to me anyway—from your previous comments that you were volunteering to take over AE's blog and comment moderation, so I don't think anyone can be blamed to not responding to an offer that wasn't plainly made.)

    Looking at subsequent comments (I'm not up-to-date on this thread yet), it looks like you are actually volunteering to write more of an ID blog than an AE blog, which I think is actually better than an ID-ized version of the AE blog. As you say, the stated purpose of the Unz-zine is "interesting views excluded from the mainstream", and Thomist neo-Scholasticism is certainly excluded from the mainstream.

    Still, that doesn't solve the problem of what to do with the momentum of the AE blog and commentariat.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    Yes, I would be willing to assume duties for the blog and content moderation, but it would be an ID blog for an AE audience. That’s what I can offer.

    I think the issue may be moot, though. I have not heard back from Ron.

  • @Rosie
    @res


    Consider that the following two points are both true and consistent.
    1. Young women are politicized. (TL’s point, and yours)
    2. Not many young women do heavy analysis. (JF’s point, note the mostly)
    �
    They are potentially consistent in theory. In actual fact, both statements are half-truths at best.

    Let's take the first statement. Young women aren't that politicized. Campus activists are a tiny fraction of women college students, let alone young women as a whole. The same goes for men. Young women are about five percent more likely to vote than young men. That gap has remained the same for a generation. Click and scroll down:

    https://cawp.rutgers.edu/facts/voters/turnout

    Now your second: Not many young women do heavy analysis.

    What do you mean they don't do heavy analysis? Sure, they do. They have to follow their professors' labyrinthine arguments as to why we should all disregard the evidence of our senses. It is college girls who have been radicalized, after all. Didn't Jared Taylor himself say something to the effect that one has to be intelligent to convince oneself of their nonsense? There is truth in this, of course.

    Nor am I convinced by the gender of commenters on websites. I lurked for years before ever commenting. But for the rampant misogyny, I probably still wouldn't be commenting, because I have better things to do than repeat what other commenters have already said.

    As for magazines, no, we're generally not very interested in what the bean-counters at Marketwatch have to say. If we were, that would be evidence of our mannish obsession with acquiring wealth, of course. No matter what women do, you can use it as a reason to say something unflattering about us and sure enough someone will.

    Personally, I follow Rachel Ray. She helps me get dinner on the table and the kids to practice on time. If you want to call that "fluff," go ahead, but then all you're doing is acting like the same MCPs of old, with an attempt to dress it up as "objective fact" or whatever. As always, motherhood and homemaking are indispensable to civilization, but publications that help us do it better are "fluff." Which is it?

    https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/30-minute-meals

    Replies: @Jeff M Smith

    I do not generally despise members of the opposite sex, and I have no desire to insult them as a group. As far as I can tell, Rosie, this makes me different from you.

    So this applies to any student, male or female.

    “They have to follow their professors’ labyrinthine arguments as to why we should all disregard the evidence of our senses. It is college girls who have been radicalized, after all. Didn’t Jared Taylor himself say something to the effect that one has to be intelligent to convince oneself of their nonsense? There is truth in this, of course.”

    Parrots don’t convince themselves. A student who regurgitates the professor’s garbage is not necessarily intellectually engaged. The professor’s garbage might align with their FEELINGS on the subject, though, and in this way they might be “convinced.”

    “As always, motherhood and homemaking are indispensable to civilization..”

    Yes.

    Most men would agree with this (although if I am correct in what I think you mean by this, many men have not directly experienced it). Most women of today (and for as long as I have been alive, some 5 decades) would immediately start screaming about sexism.

  • @Anonymous
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Thanks, Triteleia. This is an excellent explanation.
    I began reading TUR almost as soon as Ron Unz created it, and often commented. This was back in the days when women such as "Pamela" commented, and this was then clearly a serious intellectual site.
    As Ron Unz added more writers, to my mind often of dubious quality, the site, in my view, began to deteriorate. Peter Frost left. Jayman left. Razib Khan left. Then when Takimag closed comments and that collection of internet slime moved here, serious commenting at Unz essentially died.
    Anyway, my personal experience, was that when I posted as a woman, which I am, the intensity of the hostility my remarks engendered was surprising to me because since high school days I'd always engaged in serious discussions on all sorts of subjects with mixed-gendered groups of friends and classmates without ever being attacked or belittled because of my sex.
    And then I noticed that when I posted comments under a generic pseudonym, readers were positive and I was not attacked. Unfortunately, a few shrewd individuals could figure out I was female, and then the attacks began again, so I gave up posting except for the occasional anonymous comment, which I usually later regretted making because it seems a waste to engage the sorts who infest TUR comment sections (except for a notable few) in any way at all.

    https://i.imgur.com/Bmbhkt9.png

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Barbarossa, @Almost Missouri, @Dissident

    This is a curious comment, since if you are the commenter referred to by Jenner Ickham Errican, above, the commenting history seems to show a great deal of interest and respect from other male commenters. (Reactions from other female commenters, on the other hand, were … not so much.)

    Also, on a personal note, if you are that commenter, I still recall (in a good way) some of the comments you made, particularly the one about Indians that Steve highlighted, which was one of the best ever comments at this site, IMHO, both in content and style.

  • @Almost Missouri
    @Triteleia Laxa

    politicised ≠ analytical

    When people are "politicised", it just means that political topics (in the literal sense of "approximate upper surface") are added to their grab-bag of fashion accessories and pop-cultural references, not that they have any comprehension, insight, or even interest in actual political matters.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I appreciate that. I’m just not sure they are any less analytical than the majority of the commenters here.

    “Let him, who is without sin, cast the first stone” can be understood as “those who do not pause to reflect on their sin, before they cast a stone, will be drowning in it.”

    Not as pithy, but very practical.

  • RogerL says:
    June 26, 2021 at 3:32 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @Triteleia Laxa
    @nebulafox

    I don't think your instincts are wrong, but I do think they miss a lot of what is extremely objectionable about the ideas of many of the commenters here.

    Things that are common:

    1. Men should be able to vote, women should not.

    2. Men should have special rights for careers and education for those careers, above women.

    3. Women should not be allowed choice over who they have sex with/marry.

    These take away the trifecta of freedoms, political, professional and personal.

    What's worse is the flimsy reasoneering offered, especially in a deluded tone of being totally objective and fair-minded.

    As if someone who is self-aware could ever offer the platform above, and fail to realise how immoderate it is, utterly unlikely to succeed and how crazy it would be seen by anyone normal.

    This does not make people crazy for believing in it; but it does make them crazy for thinking that anyone who disagrees with it must be crazy.

    Then there's the explanations for why women dislike this astonishingly extreme political platform:

    1. Women don't do serious analysis.

    2. Women are all brainwashed, because they are soft-headed.

    3. Women will act up, if men don't treat them harshly enough.

    Unsurprisingly, few women find this persuasive, or welcome, as totally "fact-based" hugely "evidenced" one hundred percent "objective analysis."

    This is all before you get to the aggressive, bullying behaviour of various commenters and also before you get to the clearly deranged ones, who pepper the board with comments like "childless women are disgusting".

    A more pertinent question than "why are there very few women here" would be "why are there any women here at all?"



    Before some anonymous commenter, thinking they have a killer argument, spams me again, with some variant of "Women are not men with wombs". I know. There will be averaged differences.

    In my opinion, political discussion will trend male.

    But there are fewer women here than in gay men's nightclubs. It is not suffice to say that there are "averaged differences in interests" in the face of a disparity this stark.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @RogerL

    You said:
    A more pertinent question than “why are there very few women here†would be “why are there any women here at all?â€

    Previously I asked:
    Why have a significant number of women been participating in this blog?

    Did you ever explain why you are participating in this blog?

    I’ve been watching for this, and didn’t see it. So far I haven’t seen any women explain why they continue to comment on this blog, in spite of the negative responses they often get.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @RogerL


    Why have a significant number of women been participating in this blog
    �
    I'd argue that it is an "insignificant" number, and circling zero.
  • res says:
    June 26, 2021 at 3:12 pm GMT •ï¿½100 Words
    @res
    @iffen


    If you are interested in continuing our exchange on soft anti-Semitism, and whether you and I qualify, post a comment on the open thread and I will respond. I am interested in continuing.
    �
    I'm interested as well. Busy today, but leaving this reply as a marker.

    P.S. Doing it in those open threads might get interesting. IIRC lots of strong opinions there.

    Replies: @res, @iffen

    Another marker. TL made a quite reasonable comment replying to my final comment there which shows up in my comment feed but not in the thread view. Odd. Recording it here for reference.

    I thought somewhat dishonest was fairly light criticism. What would you suggest instead? Misleading?

    This is just a observation; so please don’t bite my head off for it.

    I would, personally, be extremely hesitant to question someone’s (conscious) sincerity. I feel it would immediately make discussion pointless and be placing them in some sort of “enemy” category, where the stakes are high and the game is zero sum. I also feel that it would be me just being extremely paranoid were I to do it. You clearly disagree for some reason, but I don’t understand why?

    •ï¿½Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @res

    I've had some unusual comment bounces here lately too. Not the type (comment in commenter history but not original thread) you describe though.

    I thought it was just me.
  • @dfordoom
    @Rattus Norwegius


    Maybe someone could post open threads for the commentaritat?
    �
    There is another very simple solution. Just persuade one of the regular commenters here to set up a blog elsewhere, with possibly several people being given posting privileges. Then just have that person (or persons) post a topic for discussion once a week (or twice a week or whatever).

    But please, for the love of God, not a Wordpress blog. Their commenting system does not work. It does not work at all. It's horrendous.

    Blogger is the easiest option. Setting up a Blogger blog is fairly simple and their commenting system is very very reliable. And moderating comments is very very simple. Maybe there are other simple blogging platforms.

    The big advantage of this option is that only the regular commenters here will know about the blog, so the drooling crazies who infest so much of the rest of Unz Review won't know about it.

    Blogger also allows you to use a pseudonymous handle when commenting.

    You'd need some moderation, but probably nothing more onerous than AE's schoolmarm and none of us here seem to have any serious issues with that.

    To be honest I don't think such a blog would ever gain a high enough profile for anyone to want to shut it down. And I don't really think any of us here are important enough for anyone to be interested in hunting us down.

    Replies: @Rattus Norwegius

    There might be a deadline for creating this new blog. If someone waits too long he/she might forget to create the blog in the first place. Worse, someone might create a blog without anyone arriving. Having abandoned the earlier meeting point.

  • dfordoom says: •ï¿½Website
    June 26, 2021 at 3:03 pm GMT •ï¿½200 Words
    @Barbarossa
    @dfordoom

    You and I are certainly on the same page concerning the pitfalls of unchecked technological adoption. I have a lot of Amish near me, and while one can criticize the Amish for a variety of things, I find their basic approach to technology to be eminently sane. They judge the adoption of any given technology by it's likely effects on the cohesiveness of their society, since they have judged that cohesion to be their primary good to preserve.

    I personally try for a similar judgement in my own household, but it's much harder without a reinforcing group with the same goals.

    I completely understand your points on masturbation or Greek women with dildos and they are, I think completely valid as far as they go. Where I'm differing is that I'm of the opinion that the combination of technology and societal norms make it an entirely different situation today.

    Just as there has always been porn, I've seen it argued by some that today's porn is not different and it's no big deal. I would disagree, because the sheer volume, easy of access, and relative filthiness of today's internet porn make it an entirely different phenomena from finding your Dad's Playboys back in the 80's. I find the vibrator issue to be similar since the mass marketing and technological sophistication certainly make it far likely to be not just a supplemental pleasure device, but a perceived replacement for actual human intercourse.

    These technologies, combined with a society which increasingly ignores not only the procreative aspects of sex but also the emotional aspects, seems to be pushing inexorably toward the point where porn, vibrators, etc. are replacements for sex, not merely supplements. Since personal pleasure is seen as the only worthy goal, this is not even perceived as an issue in wider society. If one wants to have sex with a tree stump, the only advice will be on how to avoid splinters, since there can be no qualitative judgement allowed anymore!

    I think it's possible to see the isolated factors (widespread vibrator purchasing, ballooning porn usage, divorce rates, lack of childbearing, explosion in LGBT identities, etc.) as less of a big deal when viewed in isolation. Taken together in aggregate they seem to add up to a pretty grim picture.

    These days parents wish their kids would do something healthy and normal like necking at the drive-in.
    �
    As a parent of five kids, the oldest of which is getting into being a teenager, I can attest that this is no exaggeration!

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Just as there has always been porn, I’ve seen it argued by some that today’s porn is not different and it’s no big deal. I would disagree, because the sheer volume, easy of access, and relative filthiness of today’s internet porn make it an entirely different phenomena from finding your Dad’s Playboys back in the 80’s.

    Yes, I agree. And again the change was driven almost entirely by technology – firstly by home video (videocassettes opened up a vast new market), then the internet. And those new technologies made it almost impossible to exercise ant control over the nature of the content.

    If you ever see photos from girlie magazines up to the 1970s they’re not just remarkably innocuous, they’re oddly wholesome. Pretty girls lounging by swimming pools and then taking their clothes off and smiling shyly at the camera. It’s kinda sweet. It can even be seen as a healthy celebration of the beauty of the female body. Not really a whole lot different from the very long tradition of nude painting in the West. Velázquez’s mid-17th century Rokeby Venus could be a painted version of a girlie magazine centrefold from the mid-1960s.

    The content has certainly changed, but it was the technology that drove the change.

  • @Intelligent Dasein
    @V. K. Ovelund


    I was hoping that you had just volunteered!
    �
    Well, I am volunteering. Does anybody care?

    Replies: @V. K. Ovelund, @Triteleia Laxa, @dfordoom, @Almost Missouri

    I care. I like reading your writing. I would like it even more if I could read it at Unz.com, since then I wouldn’t have to remember to check your above-linked blog.

    (If you don’t mind my mentioning it though, it wasn’t clear—to me anyway—from your previous comments that you were volunteering to take over AE’s blog and comment moderation, so I don’t think anyone can be blamed to not responding to an offer that wasn’t plainly made.)

    Looking at subsequent comments (I’m not up-to-date on this thread yet), it looks like you are actually volunteering to write more of an ID blog than an AE blog, which I think is actually better than an ID-ized version of the AE blog. As you say, the stated purpose of the Unz-zine is “interesting views excluded from the mainstream”, and Thomist neo-Scholasticism is certainly excluded from the mainstream.

    Still, that doesn’t solve the problem of what to do with the momentum of the AE blog and commentariat.

    •ï¿½Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri

    Yes, I would be willing to assume duties for the blog and content moderation, but it would be an ID blog for an AE audience. That's what I can offer.

    I think the issue may be moot, though. I have not heard back from Ron.