There is a belief that remains unsaid, for its open exposure can’t stand the light, that only when six million gentiles perish, can there begin to be any question of moral equivalence. As if, evil for evil subtracts evil, instead of piling evil upon evil and proliferating it. It is difficult at any time, to return only good for evil, as Yeshua commands, but promoting an attempted genocide as an excuse for immunity in evil doing by descendants of victims, attempts to rob others of their own moral agency, the very character necessary for individuals to resist participating in state ordered evil doing. Such perversion is the very Devil’s work, a de facto affirmation of holocaust techniques, of ethnic cleansing.

Art Spiegelman, in his graphic novel Maus, showed his father, a Holocaust survivor, cheating New York Jewish supermarkets, by revealing his Nazi death camp tattoos when caught, and thus evading consequences.

It’s funny, I have a set of 1964 World Book Encyclopedias, and there is NO entry in the H volume for Holocaust. By the 1980s, there was an entry that covered several/many pages. Most excellent column btw.

Assuming he existed, it came down from Father Abraham when those star-struck herdsmen came steaming out of the deserts to smite and smote the Philistines and others. Too many generations, awe-struck under the desert skies, left a toll on humankind unresolved to this day. Until the damage is recognized and effort made to re- balance the human condition no redress is possible. https://bit.ly/2CDqp3l

Every day is International Holocaust Remembrance Day…Deny that at your peril…

The details and facts are not really all that important. So many people were killed by their fellow-humans in the course of history, for a lot of reasons. Who cares?

I generally have a high opinion of Mr. Shamir’s writing. However, the above statement is, frankly, shameful. The purpose of such a statement is to deceive. Granted, Mr. Shamir may be simply trying to deceive himself. However, whether the purpose is to deceive oneself or deceive others, the goal is still to deceive.

NO!!! OBVIOUSLY, IT DOES MATTER how many people were killed, at least approximately, if you want to understand an event. For example, I live in a town of about 100,000 people. If a catastrophic event occurred in which a lot of people were killed in this town, of course it would matter if the number who died was 60,000 or was more like 6,000. Which of the two figures is approximately correct would be key to getting one’s head around what happened.

OF COURSE IT MATTERS whether the people who were deported to forced labor camps and never came back died simply because conditions in the camps became very bad, typhus epidemics and such, or whether they were systematically murdered in gas chambers. To claim otherwise is ridiculous.

Again, I have enjoyed Mr. Shamir’s writing and learned things from him, but the claim that these things do not matter is, because of man’s inhumanity to his fellow man, blah blah blah… I feel I have to say bluntly that this is either idiotic or dishonest, or both of the above.

“My good friend and an important French and Spanish poet Mme Maria Poumier was/is a Communist, and she lived for some ten years in Cuba. She introduced me to Roger Garaudy,”

strange that stuff like this was introduced into an otherwise very good post.

ISmellBagels—Your 1964 volumes may have been among the last to record the ‘incorrect’ version of history. From Brother Nathanael’s video, ‘How To Survive The Holocaust’:

‘I grew up in the 50’s and we Jewish kids had no idea that a “Holocaust� ever existed. Perhaps we were the first “Holocaust deniers�. If not, Jewish historian Jacob Marcus certainly was. For, in the 1950 edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica, Marcus wrote that it was “thousands� of Jews, not six million, that “perished� during World War II. Not a single gas chamber was mentioned. It wasn’t until the 60’s when pro-Israel lobbies grew in power that the number “six million� and “gas chambers� suddenly were served up to a gullible public.’

@johnny, thumbs up.

Dear Mr. Bagels and Mr. J. R.,

Two anecdotes that lend context to the period you are discussing: First, back when the 1964 “Free Speech Movement” in Berkeley was spilling over and influencing other institutions, I took a class called World Religions, taught by a brilliant and compassionate Jewish professor named Bob Frank. Once, in a brief aside on the subject of public discussion, he asked the class (and we were all sophomores), “Why does every public debate have to turn into a … a holocaust?” Clearly, he meant a traumatic event and his use of “holocaust” held no particular Jewish connotation either for himself or his students. He said it and got on with things. It was just another word.

Again, in 1965, Victor Frankl (Man’s Search for Meaning) came to deliver a lecture, which he began with, “In addition to the other things said about me in my introduction, I am a survivor of two camps, one of which is Auschwitz.” He was making a statement of fact and while clearly he wasn’t recalling summer camp, there was no hand wringing and group guilt, no “oy vey.” His admission gave him a certain credibility, not martyr points, and he said it and got on with things. He had been in two camps and survived, so it would seem people had not been sent there for the express purpose of dying. They were labor camps. This was before so many people had “survivor” tattoos.

Mr. Unz is right when he says the story was concocted when those who had been there got old and began dying off, and MSM and the professional whiners could get rich brainwashing a gullible and sophomoric public.

‘There is a belief that remains unsaid, for its open exposure can’t stand the light, that only when six million gentiles perish, can there begin to be any question of moral equivalence…’

Gentiles did perish, and considerably more than six million, so if that’s the path to moral equivalence, it was reached long ago.

‘…It wasn’t until the 60’s when pro-Israel lobbies grew in power that the number “six millionâ€� and “gas chambersâ€� suddenly were served up to a gullible public…’

I strongly suspect this isn’t true.

The use of the word holocaust in relation to this article didn’t appear till the early 1970’s.

I should have written the following into my other piece. I don’t know if this has been posted here before, my apologies if it has.
The subject is about the introduction of how the gas chambers hoax came to appear.

http://www.heritageanddestiny.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Britains-Rumour-Factory.pdf

Colin Wright—Brother Nathanael’s statement that the number six million was suddenly served up to a gullible public in the 1960s could certainly have been better worded in that the number has actually been served up since the end of the 19th century. See Nicholas Kollerstrom’s Breaking the Spell [PDF], which, on pp158-174, lists ‘166 pre-Nuremberg Six-Million sources’. Kollerstrom notes that six million is the approximate number of people who have sought compensation from Germany on the grounds of being a Holocaust survivor.

I was reading recently how the Western colonial powers would describe Third World people resisting conquest as “fanatics” and “xenophobes” (yes, that term!), while European nations resisting foreign aggression were “patriots”.

Muslim fanaticism was originally used to discredit Muslim resistance to colonial rule – didn’t they understand it was for their benefit?

The point is power holders always use cheap moralistic language to justify themselves and tar their enemies – frequently – no, as a rule, for the exact same behavior.

People who don’t question the existing moralistic designations generally benefit somehow from existing arrangements – they aren’t brainwashed, or at least not unwillingly.

Then there are a few genuinely moral people who see the lies.

But the idea that it is primarily and issue of disinformation or propaganda is a fantasy – it is primarily about hard power.

“Vampire Killers 2001”

“For Whom The Bell Tolls 2006”

Read these way back. worth reading or re reading. Dont link from my comment but are at end of Shamir’s article.

There is no such thing as a “holocaust survivor”.

Those labeled as such make absurd, impossible, and contradictory claims. Such lies are not the exception, but the rule.

The claimed ‘6M Jews, 5M other, & gas chambers’ are easily debunked frauds.

Read here as Believers are routed: American Pravda: Holocaust Denial, by Ron Unz : https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985

The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

The tip of the iceberg.

Facts on the ‘holocaust’ Fantasy Theme Park, aka: ‘US ‘Holocaust’ Memorial Museum:

Tax exempt cash taken in by USHMM, aka: ‘Holocau$t’ Theme Park, for fiscal year 2016 which supports huge salaries for Jews only, which most of the remaining money goes to Jews & Zionist organizations:
$151,826,695.00 : https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

US taxpayers money to the USHMM in the 2017 budget: 56,999,500.00
https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

There are over 100 ‘holocaust’ oriented ‘museums’ / indoctrination centers throughout the US alone, they all receive US taxpayer funding.

http://www.codoh.com

Well said.

Jews have been pushing their ‘6,000,000’ lie since at least 1823:

6 MILLION?

and:
http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

http://www.codoh.com

Must reads here:

!! ‘Holocaust Skepticism: 20 Questions & Answers about Holocaust Revisionism’ !! / now available : https://shop.codoh.com/book/456/469
free .pdf: http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/HolocaustSkepticism.pdf

much more:
Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos: http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

http://www.codoh.com

I. Shamir: You do not have to hate anybody … to love Christ.

Wrong. You have to hate your own blood kin to love Jewsus. He said so himself.

If any one doth come unto me, and doth not hate his own father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, and yet even his own life, he is not able to be my disciple. (((Luke 14:26)))

I. Shamir: …tried to bring together Christianity and Communism

“Not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them….and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” Acts 4:32-35

Christianity and Communism were never separated.

“…primitive Christianity is Bolshevism.”

-Ludwig von Mises
Socialism, p. 413

Kamikaze?

What an odd choice.

Divine wind.

Or…, wait.

Kamikaze pilots flew suicide missions and died by the hundreds, thousands.

Is that what Israel Shamir sees as a future for Mr. Unz?

“H”olocaust denial is one thing; debunking it’s another.

We need both.

Good article, (with the exception noted by JR in comment #9), and kudos to RU in particular.

US taxpayers are also forced to fund the (alleged) holocaust theme parks in Europe.

Years ago, while looking for some unconnected information on the State Department’s official website, I came across a small notice that Hilary Clinton, then Secretary of State, had submitted a requisition to Congress for $15,000,000 for the maintenance of holocaust memorials in Europe. Of course it was never reported in the news in the US. I assume this is a regular ongoing annual tithe to the church of holocaustianity.

And here comes the fourth answer: “The H cult is good as a discursive tool of the Deep State against the majority�.

Bingo. If you refuse to bow down before this new, official state-religion, you could end up in front of the Inquisition. That sort of power dynamic makes it very useful to the gang in charge.

The H priests preach that the majority of Germans approved of Hitler and approved of the Holocaust, so one can’t accept democracy and shouldn’t trust the majority, unless the majority votes as ordered by those who know better.

I realize it’s a technical point, but Hitler never won a full majority in a truly open election. Before becoming Führer, the best he could manage was a plurality. But that’s not to say that his popularity in the late 30s wasn’t genuine; by then he had had the chance to end the depression in Germany and begin restoring their national pride and self-determination.

“The Noahides are a theological phenomenon of very recent vintage. It’s a form of Zionist mission, which seeks to create a world religion whose believers adore the Jewish people and the State of Israel – without belonging to either. The believers are required to accept the supremacy of Judaism but are not accepted into the Jewish people and are even barred from upholding such commandments as Sabbath observance. Anyone who wishes to be a Noahide is called upon mainly to recognize the Jewish people and its state.�

I laughed so hard when I read this! I had never heard of Noahidism before, so I went to Wikipedia for the skinny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahidism

Get this: it turns out that their religious symbol is … a rainbow!

I agree with you that the truth matters – the factual truth, not just the “moral truth.” I don’t believe though that Shamir’s intent is to deceive. The position he suggests – namely, to sidestep the question of historic facts and simply denounce the obvious holocaust hucksterism that is going on today – may be intended to encourage the formation of a broader movement that is based on a moral consensus.

Personally I can’t understand how one can engage for years with questions such as 9/11 or the holocaust and never really try to get to the bottom of things; and with these two specific questions, a couple of hours of determined research is really all you need. But people are different.

Ultimately, the point is moot.
As Western Europe is rapidly colonised by millions of arab/african immigrants, and USA are sliding into economic depression – inter-racial time of troubles isnt far on the horizon neither, the H indoctrination loses its strenght and venom.
This cult works only on whites, I believe we all agree on this point.

The zionist jews in their hubris and arrogance constructed a Golem, which will destroy them in the end, sadly, many totally innocent jews will die and even worse, millions of other nations.

A serious question to someone who knows the subject well: Do H deniers dispute the census records that strongly suggest that about 5-6 million Jews did die during the war time? If they do, how exactly and do they do it and what’s the number that the H deniers themselves pencil?

Monika Schaefer-
Ursula Haverbeck-
Both are grandmothers who are incarcerated in Germany in maximum-security prisons for having “incorrect thoughts” about the jewish holocaust.
When it comes to the jewish holocaust , TRUTH cannot be used as a defense in German courts. There is a concept in German (kangaroo) courts called “judicial notice”, which disallows the introduction of evidence, if it runs counter to “accepted beliefs”, even if these “accepted beliefs” can be proven false.
This is what Germany has become…

There are so many extraordinarily powerful Jewish and Non-Jewish, Pro-Israel forces at work to perpetuate what some feel may be the myth of the Holocaust against the Jews during WWIII that it’s not wise to challenge it even if you feel it might be unjustly perpetuated for the benefit of the tiny minority of Jews that rule us and always will…thanks to our Christians.

The best way to register an objection to the entire Jewish hysteria and the Jewish control of our lives is to simply decline to befriend them and to decline to do business with businesses that are run by these murdering land-grabbers who endlessly cling to and relentlessly broadcast their victim status.

That hoax may register with others. It absolutely doesn’t register with me. They’re a fifth column in America which, to be gracious, have divided loyalties much like the militant Muslims immigrants seem to have in those countries that are so foolish to admit them in great numbers (Think Sweden).

Want an example of their cowardice and dual loyalties? I spent the better part of 8 years of my life in either active or reserve status in the U.S. Marine Corps, the most nationally heralded fighting machine in U.S. history, and knew a single Jewish Marine Officer out of many thousands of officers I knew.

The American Jew’s loyalties lie elsewhere. Else, they’re cowards.

There are innocent Jews? Where?

Thanks. Great article. So many sacred cows! Let me make just a couple of points.

I deny that it is good to remember or immortalise such traumatic events, and I wrote many articles against modern obsession with massacres, be it the Jewish holocaust of 1940s, the Armenian massacre of 1915, the Ukrainian “holodomor�, Polish Katyn, Khmer Rouge etc. This is not forbidden yet.

1. Whenever the “Jewish holocaust of the 1940s” comes up it is good to remember that the Talmudic Jews killed six million Hellenistic Jews at some unknown time between AD 200 and 600, during the Jewish Dark Age, which perversely descended when the Roman Empire gave its Jews their autonomy, ruled by their rabbis with Ezra-like powers. You might think that was another holodomor, but it should be remembered whenever the word “holocaust” is shouted, so the self-righteousness of that shout vanishes. (See Hans Lietzmann, History of the Early Church. He doesn’t mention the number six million.)

Chabad Rabbis hope there will be 7 billion of Noahide believers; adepts of H cult are well on their way to joining the Noahides for they already believe that the death of a Jew is more important than a Gentile death.

2. The way save America today, to save the world, is to give American Jews the autonomy that Cyrus and the Roman Empire gave their Jews. Let them be ruled by Orthodox rabbis, yes, Chabad rabbis, with the same powers over all American Jews that Ezra and Nehemiah had over theirs.

In other words, post-Enlightenment as we are, it’s time to go pre-Enlightenment and reverse the integration of the Jews into normal society. Do you think the Chabad rabbis would agree to that? Would the higher echelons of the Deep State be mostly Jewish then, all with their sidelocks and Jewish costumes, enforced?

Ride a tiger, steal cubs from she-bear, walk a high voltage wire. Doubting the Holocaust is slightly less perilous.

It’s just as stupid, though.

I don’t believe though that Shamir’s intent is to deceive.

Well, I can understand your trying to find a generous interpretation of this, but… I can’t really agree. This whole song and dance about how the facts don’t really matter…. people who say things like that are trying to deceive.

Conversely, the people who engage with the facts in a straightforward manner are not trying to deceive. Those are the honest people!

Personally I can’t understand how one can engage for years with questions such as 9/11 or the holocaust and never really try to get to the bottom of things; and with these two specific questions, a couple of hours of determined research is really all you need.

Yeah, well, the situation pre-Internet was one thing, but now, I think that if people don’t know the basics about these questions, it’s because they don’t want to know.

“Do H deniers dispute the census records that strongly suggest that about 5-6 million Jews did die during the war time? ”

The census records do not suggest this. From the census records and population estimates (Jewish) it follows that 4.5 million died. The data is admitted (by Jews) to be very uncertain concerning the Soviet Union and other Eastern Europe (Romania, the Baltic countries and it is even from Poland the last census was 1931 and the 1939 figure is estimated by population growth of 1.4% and the actual figure can be several hundreds of thousands less because of emigration to Western Europe). A more supported death toll is 3.5 million, which agrees with Yad Vashem figure for known names and with the increase of the US Jewish population between 1921-1939. This figure is still high considering that the Ashkenazi Jewish population had for 1000 years the population growth 1.4% (which Israel has today), and using this figure for the global growth gives the death toll 2.5-3 million.

Shortly, there are no census records that you claim there are suggesting that 5-6 million Jews did die. The data there is suggests a much smaller number. Why do you spread such incorrect information? the calculations that 5-6 million died are made by omitting emigration out of Europe, a propaganda trick.

Both my phone and computer are inundated with notices about January 27 international holocaust day and the current Jewish holidays and sone support Israel conferences.

What have done? Maybe it’s the zip code
Maybe I should look at the Smithfield ham site and Latin Catholic services sites.

Holocaust day 1/27 will conflict with MlK worship day in January

whether the Holocaust narrative is based on sterling facts or on exaggerations, it is good to reject it. Even if the ‘deniers’ are factually wrong (let us presume it for the sake of argument), they are still right with their conclusions.

Ah, the old “facts don’t matter” argument. Well, facts do matter and this is basically an admission that the deniers claims are mostly bullshit, which they are.

But the seven reasons we listed above do not include hate of any sorts

Have you ever read any comments at this site? Hate is obviously the motivating factor here.

Chag Sameach!

I could go on forever, but here’s a simple one: check the changing of the plaque at Auschwitz circa 1989. Officially, three million were DEDUCTED from the Auschwitz tally. So let’s see…the constant claim of 6 million now minus 3 million equals????

Bill Styron, after having spent years doing research for “Sophie’s Choice”, mentioned in an interview that he believed the total Jewish fatalities of WWII were ‘1.5 to 2 million at most’.

Swiss Red Cross did a study right after the war, and concluded total Jewish war fatalities at 1.5 million.

As far as the Nazi work camps are concerned, I believe it’s down in the thousands, and most of those fatalities were caused as a direct or indirect result of Allied bombing.

If you put aside all revisionist research, which I initially avoided, you might come across as I did an endless number of Jewish/Israeli historians who express frustration and shame at the 6 million lie. Of course, they also express fear of stating it in public.

You’re mistaken about the census data, unless you’re referring to the made-up numbers appearing for “world Jewry” in the Information Please Almanac. The definitive work on the subject, based on reams of census data, is Walter Sanning’s The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry, which you cannot get from Amazon (they scrubbed it last year along with over a hundred other such titles). The best place to get it now is http://www.holocausthandbooks.com.

Sanning’s bottom line is less than a million.

There are absolutely innocent jews that look in horror and disbelief at the fall of the western civilisation at the hands of demented criminals, gangsters and moronic opp0rtunists.
Dont look at jews as some sort of monolithic conspiracy, where everyone gets his orders from the rabbi(they would love that though) and march in step to enslave the nations.
Of all the antisemites I knew, and believe me I knew a lot, the jewish sort was the most fanatical,to-the-last-bullet type.

Probably because they knew things the average goy wouldnt even believe.

Yeah, our family always had a problem with that seemingly sick statement by Jesus.

To be fair, it is certainly true that some statements in the Bible may be overstated melodramatically for effect, or may be used to make a point ironically. A statement might not mean what it seems to mean at first blush once one examines the surrounding verses and the larger context.

For example, unz recently had a Roman Catholic commenter who I tangle with but who persuasively (or at least plausibly) explained away another seemingly twisted statement from the Bible. It was a statement seeming to say that people who never have children are especially blessed and those who have children will be cursed, but in context it was more likely a melodramatic statement that the world would be so evil and violent that people with children would rue bringing their children into such a world.

But as I remarked in that thread, it strains credulity to posit that most, or many many many, of the twisted statements in the Bible don’t mean anything like what their clear language means.

I’d sincerely interested to see a Christian apologist explain this statement away. Just melodrama and not meant literally, just making a point about the depth of commitment that a Christian needs? Doesn’t make sense.

Anyone who asks me to hate my parents, wife, or children, or asks them to hate me, in any sense for any reason, loses moral and personal credibility to say the least.

It’s not Bolshevism if people share voluntarily from their own sense of compassion and mercy. Bolshevism and communism as the terms are ordinarily used, entail massive force, intimidation, and surveillance to attempt to implement.

But I do recall seeing a Bible passage recently that could be interpreted as saying that some affluent people gave up some of their property because they were rightly afraid of violence, and this seemed to be just fine with the writer. Perhaps Rosamond Vincy can help us here.

Germany will not exist as Germany soon enough. They strive mightily every day to accelerate their own dispossession and subjugation — then eventually elimination through extermination, rape, and miscegenation of whoever remains. They try even harder than Americans do to achieve this fate. So they deserve it.

My wife and I interact with germans and german immigrants to the USA all the time, because I’m part german and our kids have been learning german from a very young age. They are, by and large, insufferably sanctimonious, suicidally naive, cowardly assholes. The level of german brainwashing and inability / unwillingness to think for themselves, makes even Californians seem logical and stable. They lecture and insult US for pointing out that perhaps their people should do something differently in order to survive as a people and even to survive physically.

I read somewhere–perhaps in a book by Alison Weir–that there were hardly any books on the H (at least in English) prior to the Israel’s Six Day War in ’67. Following that, the American medium began glorifying Israel.

Great example from your Marine Corps days.

A childhood acquaintance of mine volunteered for the Israeli Defense Force. When I ran into him while visiting our old hometown on the East Coast some years ago and he told me what he had been up to, I asked him, “Was OUR military all full? Or wouldn’t they take you for some reason?�

Yeah, I’m sure I’ll be getting that Hanukkah card from him in December.

I don’t admit of the term “Holocaust survivor,” any more than I do of “rape survivor” or survivors of anything other than ship sinkings and airplane crashes.

People who were forcibly deported to concentration camps are Holocaust veterans, differing from conscripted soldiers mostly in that no one is shooting at them (nor dropping bombs on them).

Second reply, because you are utterly correct and your experience is consistent with ours.

I have a fairly close Jewish friend here in Los Angeles who’s also into politics and history, and we talk more candidly compared than most people feel they can to people of different backgrounds. I asked him, do you at least understand why some people who are NOT ignorant bigots might question the loyalty of Jewish people to America and Americans?

For example, I asked him, whom would you support if by some strange turn of events US forces were in combat with Israelis? He would not give a straight answer, laughing and saying that would never happen. I persisted, “yes, but the question was, however unlikely it seems, what would YOU do if Americans were fighting Israelis?� Never a straight answer, to this day. Which is itself an answer.

Yes, but even one million Jewish lives are worth infinitely more than twenty-five million Russian lives or millions of german lives. Jeez, everyone knows that.

Saying that every human life has presumptively equal worth and dignity to every other human life, is now portrayed as “racist.� Strange Times.

“I generally have a high opinion of Mr. Shamir’s writing. However, the above statement is, frankly, shameful. The purpose of such a statement is to deceive.”

It’s amazing that more people don’t realize that Shamir is a propagandist.

The use of the word holocaust in relation to this article didn’t appear till the early 1970′s.

It was first introduced in a story in Look magazine around 1960. Someone pointed the article out to me while I was riding home on the school bus. He explained what they were going to do with the word, and he backed it up by showing me a letter that was circulated among Jewish groups. I do not recall the author. The letter began “We are in a good position, if we all stick together…”

3404 misé� – properly, to detest (on a comparative basis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/14-26.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/3404.htm

Why would you ever make a conclusion without looking at the original language and then going to the church traditions to understand the meaning of a passage?

Christianity demands that one not be attached to worldly things, and that includes even those you love. That’s just how it is. Don’t like it, you can always become a slave to the other master.

“THOSE who command warlike armies, and have won for themselves martial glory, whenever the time for battle has arrived, instruct the troops under their orders in what way, arraying themselves manfully against the phalanxes of the enemy, they will gain a triumphant victory. And the Saviour of all, imitating the skilfulness of those here mentioned, very clearly shows unto all who would follow Him, the pathway of spiritual manfulness: that advancing with unrestrainable impetuosity unto every triumph of piety, and exerting a stern and irresistible earnestness, they may win by a just decree the right of being with Him, and following Him.

This lesson then clearly teaches us, what sort of persons He |491 would have us to be. “For whosoever comes unto Me, He says, and hates not his father and his mother, and his wife and his children, and his brethren, and his sisters, yes, and his own self also, cannot be My disciple.” ‘What then, O Lord, some perchance may say, do You despise the laws of natural affection? Do You command us to hate one another, and to disregard the love that is due to fathers from their sons, to wives from their husbands, to brethren from their brethren? Shall we make those enemies who are members of the same household; and those, whom it is our duty rather to love, must we count as foes, in order that we may be with you, and be able to follow you?’

This is not what the Saviour means. Away with so vain a a thought. For He Who commands even those who are violent enemies to be gentle, and forgiving to all who would do them wrong: for, “Love, He says, your enemies: and pray for them that spoil you:” how could He wish us to hate those who are born of the same family, and to disregard the honour due to parents, and think nothing of despising our brethren; yes! and our own children also, and even our own self? For He, Who has pronounced condemnation even upon those who disregard the law of mutual love, could not wish His friends to cherish a savage, and so to speak, a desperate state of minds. What however He does wish to teach in these commands is plain to those who can understand from what is said in another place expressly upon the same subject. “For he that loves, He says, father or mother more than Me, is not worthy of Me: and he that loves son or daughter more Me, is not worthy of Me.” By adding then “more than Me,” it is plain that He permits us to love, but not more than we do Him. For He demands for Himself our chief affection; and that very justly: for the love of God in those who are perfect in mind has something in it superior both to |492 the honour due to parents, and to the natural affection felt for children.”

-St. Cyril of Alexandria, a Commentary on the Gospel of St. Luke

It was Bolshevism, and it wasn’t voluntary. Money and property were procured by coercion. The Jew Testament admits as much, in the story where the double murder of a couple over money is used to induce fear.

“Great fear seized the whole church…” Acts 5:11

Which is itself a felony in our society.

A person is guilty of coercion in the second degree when he or she compels…by means of instilling in him or her a fear…

Penal Law § 135.60 Coercion in the second degree
codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-135-60.html

Your post hoc rationalizations have been weighed in the balance, and found wanting.

LOL, you Christians are experts at lying, especially to yourselves. Do look up what miséÅ� means in a proper Greek lexicon. It means to hate or to persecute, and not in softened terms like Strong’s falsely presents it, so they can sell their concordance to Christians. You may wish to peruse chapter 3, “The Hateful Jesus: Luke 14.26” in the scholarly text The Bad Jesus: The Ethics of New Testament Ethics (Sheffield Phoenix Press, 2015) for a more honest appraisal than your post hoc rationalizations provide.

And not only were you supposed to hate your blood kin, Jewsus wanted you to “forsake” (Matthew 19.27-30) your soil too. Nothing much has changed in 2000 years. With Jews, you lose.

nickels: Don’t like it, you can always become a slave to the other master.

So you admit being a “slave” to Jewish “masters.” Note that your Jewish “masters” thought of you as a dog, worthy only of scraps from the Jews’ table.

“Even the little dogs do eat of the crumbs that are falling from their masters’ table.” (((Matthew 15:27)))

You’re as pathetic as the kneeling Negro Felon League. Get off your knees, boy. Quit humiliating yourself.

In Luke 14:27 and 14:33 this is explained:

And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

NAGALT! Grandma toasting Hitler here: “Heil Hitler!” Of course, her relatives laugh first, then try to stop her. I’m in love. 🙂 /ourgirl/

I could go on forever, but here’s a simple one: check the changing of the plaque at Auschwitz circa 1989. Officially, three million were DEDUCTED from the Auschwitz tally.

Because no western historians believed the Soviet numbers. The death tolls come from estimates of the dead from each country, not plaques on walls.

I wonder why you would lie about that? hmmm…

I fear you are right, but I have to say that what happened with this country in the last 100 years was probably unsurvivable. I would like to see the demographic impact of the wars plus deportations plus emigrations calculated. And then there was reeducation.
Back at school I learned to be aware of German guilt (real or invented is not my point here) and with any European country you had some issue due to the war. I knew from childhood that my mother was attacked with a knife as an au-pair in France about 1959 by some unmarried aunt in the family because Germans had killed her fiance in WWI. I knew my thoroughly traumatised grandfather who must have been a disaster of a father and lost his health and the best years of his life fighting for the wrong side. Others here will know similar stories.

I have long evaded research on these issues when revisiting my wrong believes of the past just to save myself and now I basically keep my findings to myself because in this country for a long time it will not be possible to talk about it. Here everyone is obsessed that “we have learned from history”, adoring holocaustianity while working on the next confrontation with Russia.

It is awesome what amount of libraries in the western world belongs in the dustbin.

I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s as well and like you there was very little said about the supposed “Holocaust” until I entered my sophomore year in High School (1966). In English class we were exposed to what would be the common WWII films of the camps.

However, the Holocaust mythology didn’t truly emerge until after 1967 when Israel used its victory of the 6 Day War to begin promoting the Holocaust tale as we have come to know it today.

“The census records do not suggest this. From the census records and population estimates (Jewish) it follows that 4.5 million died. ”

Well, I don’t know the subject beyond the bare minimum known to everyone. I am just repeating what appears to be the consensus over at Cochran’s blog, in a thread devoted to what a total fruitcake our host is (https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/09/10/ron-unz/#comments). Here is what it says:

… As opposed to Hilberg, who thoroughly counts by two methods (based on killing centers/fields/methods, and another one based on demographics), and both yield roughly 5.1 million.

Clearly, various books disagree in some major ways. So, I am not interested in reading any of them, for how do I know that they are not lying? I am just trying to figure out if there is some objective, interpretation-free data that I, hopefully, can look at and make up my own mind about it.

Is something like this is even possible about Holocaust anymore?

Select ‘more” if necessary, lengthy and worth it.
said:
“Because no western historians believed the Soviet numbers. The death tolls come from estimates of the dead from each country, not plaques on walls.
I wonder why you would lie about that? hmmm…”

Is that why you have no proof for any number?
It’s you who is lying.
Whole lot of “historians” below. You lose again.

from:The ever changing fake Auschwitz numbers: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=faurisson&t=5631&sf=msgonly

“There is no absurdity so palpable but that it may be firmly planted in the human head if you only begin to inculcate it before the age of five by constantly repeating it with an air of great solemnity.� Schopenhauer

I think it is mandatory for public and maybe private schools in Chicago and probably other cities throughout America to take students on a day trip to their nearest Holocaust Museum.

Those who actually govern America know that children be molded into ‘good habits’ through proper conditioning….that their feelings can be habituated by various stimuli, Holocaust photographs, Nazi movies etc. and that their opinions and feelings will become habitual. And once the group or collective unconscious is programmed into what has been called culture, virtually any bill of goods can be sold. From: THE AGE OF MANIPULATION

“Train up the child in the way to go: and when they are older, they will not turn from it.’ Proverbs 22:6
“An ounce of pity overcomes a ton of facts.”

“A visit to Yad Vashem is the opening ritual of every state visit to Israel. The aim of this ritual is to express Israel’s relation to the Holocaust and to induce the appropriate feelings of guilt, pity and to some, shame in the visitor…. each important guest is taken on a compulsory visit to Yad Vashem….to make him fully understand the feelings and the guilt expected of him… If we assume the world hates us and persecutes us, we feel exempted from the need to be accountable for our actions towards it.â€� Boaz Evron

“Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country (the DEEP STATE !) .…We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of….In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons…who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.â€� Edward Bernays – Propaganda, 1928

“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.� Benjamin Disraeli British PM, 1850

If this truth really bothered Disraeli (‘of Israel’) he would have prefaced it with ‘unfortunately….”

I am just trying to figure out if there is some objective, interpretation-free data that I, hopefully, can look at and make up my own mind about it.

Is something like this is even possible about Holocaust anymore

Probably…….but no one is allowed to do any objective investigation under threat of jail.

So there’s your answer to how much of the holocaust story is exaggeration and myth.

The most important reason by8 many country miles: “The seventh answer will lead us into deep waters, and you can skip it if it is too deep for you. “It is good to replace Christâ€�. The H dogma is a parody of Christian teaching, with Jews being brought as a sacrifice, with Auschwitz replacing Golgotha, and with creation of the State of Israel as a new Resurrection. Jews are essential Christ Deniers, and for them the H is an occasion to downgrade Christianity as “irrelevant after Auschwitzâ€�. The alternative answer is that Auschwitz is irrelevant after the Resurrection, but there aren’t many (or any) Christian theologians daring to say that. Enemies of Christ (Gentile as well as Jewish) are likely to support H cult for its anti-Christian core.”

if only i could get some of the retards in the USA to read some of the articles here holy cow things might change for the better….but alsa the tribe’s control of media would never allow the retards to leave the hospital USA…….so do any of you guys read or like gilad atzmon he has some great writings too

That’s the anonymous person who endlessly posts the same bible quotes.
I asked him once why he did it. He replied he wanted everyone to know how evil the Bible is.

The celibacy is better thing has something to do with celibates can devote their entire lives and every moment to worshipping God

LOL LOL LOL

“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.� Benjamin Disraeli British PM, 1850

If this truth really bothered Disraeli (‘of Israel’) he would have prefaced it with ‘unfortunately….�

A little unfair to Dizzy. He was not an insider looking out. Despite being a successful politician, a Tory from a rich family, he was an outsider looking in. He had reached the point of being able to see with his own eyes those who are behind the scenes, and told everyone. If that truth really bothered him, he should have exposed it, and he did.

He had never participated in any Jewish coming-of-age ceremonies. Instead, he had been baptized.

Both his father and his grandfather had (de-facto but not formally) separated themselves from the Synagogue. He knew essentially nothing about the Jews till he first went to school and was told, to his amazement, that he was one. Then his father, Isaac D’Israeli, a Voltairean philosopher, had to explain to him that the Old Testament, the Talmud, Judaism generally, was a heap of nonsense assembled by ancient nomadic Arabs.

Superstitions. He, for his part, felt no shame in being a Jew. On the contrary, he spoke with pride of the history of his race. But he held it utterly ridiculous to maintain, in an age of reason, practices and beliefs that had been adapted to the needs of a tribe of Arab nomads several thousands of years earlier.

(Maurois, Disraeli, 1927)

But I don’t think that alters the point I made earlier, which no-one has found fault with so far, that the way to save America from the crisis that is destroying it and virtually has destroyed it, is to make American Jews an autonomous society ruled by their rabbis.

We were in Frankfurt visiting sister and her husband. The boys were doing some math. Sanctimonious German friend saw what they were doing and remarked it was very advanced for 9 year olds.

Then he added “ but of course they don’t teach the black kids math�

I just said yes they do. I didn’t bother to explain state mandated curriculum same text books same standard lesson plans same teacher training same schools. I knew he’d just start an argument that he knew more about the American state school system than I

Then there was the pompous English ass who claimed that “ New York has no public transportation�. When asked
how he knew that he replied that he’d been told. That’s a Cambridge Uni grad.

The more educated the European is, the more they despise America. Probably all the commie college profs have preaching against us since the end of WW2.

I don’t get into those conversations. When a new friend turns out to be total Jewish chauvinist Israel Uber Alles I cut off contact.

The most I do is ask them how they’d react if some heavily armed California Indian soldiers broke down the door and told them they had one hour to leave with one suitcase per person. Justification being that ancestors of those Indians lived there 2,000 years ago. Bringing it down to individual pieces of real estate and furniture affects them more than Palestinian rights.

I just try to avoid the whole thing but it’s hard. Even if they are proud atheists, Judaism seems to be their whole identity and life.

Early Christianity was a communal organization. So what, who cares.

How can this article be complete without mentioning David Irving?

A historian who has a scientific background – he attended Imperial College as I did myself.

“Holocaust denier jailed”

https://www.theguardian.com/guardianweekly/story/0,,1715580,00.html

Strange how science gets suspended whenever anything to do with Israel or the Jews is in doubt – i.e. 9/11.

The Jewish terrorists who took over Palestine tried to get Hitler to support them – against the British. A historical fact.

In your desperation you employ deceit to justify those hateful words.

You understand that the original word used is “hate,” and that “St.” fellow focuses on using the word “love,” to make his deceitful spin.

Any strong theist can understand and accept that one needs to love his/her Creator intensely, perhaps even more than other loved ones. After all, it is our Creator who will grant us salvation for all eternity.

But, “lesser love” does not mean “hate.” And, you can understand, the “lesser” part can be imperceptible, right?

In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

So, only monks can be true believers. Reminds me of those ascetics of the Hindu kind. Pagans, all of you.

Re: “Twenty-five million Russian lives”

Or 3 million Polish Christian lives. Let’s not forget that on a per capita
basis Poland suffered greater losses, both in terms of lives and
property, than any other nation in the world. Warsaw, a city of over
1 million people in 1939, was completely destroyed by the Germans.

I posted this in response to Colin Wright who was willing to grant that Auschwitz was primarily a labor camp in the master Holocaust thread and I think that the post is especially relevant to this thread.

I would basically subscribe to the full monte — with the exceptions that I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Auschwitz was primarily a labor camp

Wow absolutely wow such extreme cognitive dissonance can only be entertained by true believers

It’s like saying that ” I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Christ didn’t resurrect but Christianity still holds.”

Or ” I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Evolution is true but God still created Adam.”

Sorry Colin you can’t ‘subscribe to the full monte’ and concede Auschwitz.

It’s almost a logical impossibility.

A violent contradiction in terms.

An Oxymoron.

Auschwitz is ground Zero.

Auschwitz is the Mecca of the Holocaust religion.

It’s the “Holiest of Holies” as Holocaust Hagiographer Van Pelt calls it.

It’s a pilgrimage site for the faithful where they experience deep emotional ecstasy.

Where they flagellate themselves in religious ecstasy like the Shias do during Muharram crying “Never Again”

It’s the ‘Wailing Wall” for the secular Jews.

Where they bring their kids for the secular ‘Bar Mitzwah.’

It’s the Third Temple for the secular Jews.

Deny Auschwitz and the religion crumbles into dust

Deny Auschwitz then there’s nothing left the entire theological landscape becomes as barren as Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor

Deny Auschwitz then the Jewish tragedy becomes Mundane

like the killing fields of Cambodia

or Rwanda

Deny Auschwitz you deny the uniqueness of the Jewish Tragedy

Deny Auschwitz you deny the Holocaust

There’s no getting around this, no redistributing the numbers to other camps.

No redistributing the numbers to the ‘Holocaust by bullets’

Because we are not playing a numbers game here

What made the Jewish Tragedy unique was Auschwitz

Deny Auschwitz and the entire Shoah business stands exposed for what it is.

Crude and poorly thought out war time atrocity propaganda disguised as History

History disguised as a pseudo religious cult.

And just like any other religious cult they want money.

Lots of money hundreds of billions of dollars.

They want land for the faithful.

They got both!

Deny Auschwitz you deny Israel.

Without the halo of Auschwitz what would Israel be

A bunch of shyster land grabbing terrorists

A bunch of brutal ethno-supremacists who were allowed to develop nuclear weapons illegally

Because of Auschwitz.

This’s why they cling on so fiercely to their belief in the holocaust despite mounting evidence that the alleged genocide was utterly shambolic if not a downright scam.

And where mostly does this mounting evidence of this ” utterly shambolic if not a downright scam.” come from.

Auschwitz

Thank you for your gracious

I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Auschwitz was primarily a labor camp

I don’t need anything else!

Wally,

We got them on Auschwitz.

Auschwitz is like a brain dead patient on life support.

The doctor will have to declare the patient dead there’s no getting around that as it’s medically impossible for the patient to recover.

Such is the situation of Auschwitz, they cannot redistribute the numbers to the AR camps or to the ‘Holocaust by bullets.’

Because we aren’t dealing with numbers or history here.

If we were we wouldn’t be discussing this as the books would have been revised by now.

We are dealing with a religion.

And the Mecca of this religion is Auschwitz

Auschwitz is the ‘Third Temple’ for secular Jews.

The religion will never survive the destruction of Auschwitz

And Auschwitz will be destroyed, its situation is untenable and its destruction inevitable.

Normally people don’t like to trample over other people’s sensitivities.

But naked Jewish supremacism has enraged the Goyim.

And they will hit the Jews at their weakest point.

At their soft under belly.

At those big brazen balls begging to be kicked.

Auschwitz ouch!

Sooner rather than later a respected establishment historian will deliver the mortal blow

that “There’s no evidence for any gassings at Auschwitz”

The image of the tribe will collapse and revert to its pre Auschwitz image.

of Lying, thieving, conning, swindling hucksters and terrorists instead of besieged and Heroic Jews defending Israel against another Auschwitz.

LOL and then CODOH will go out of business and you will have to get a new Job.

“I am just repeating what appears to be the consensus over at Cochran’s blog”

Consensus on Cochran’s block only shows what are the opinions of the readers of the blog. These readers need not be a statistically correct sample of researchers on the topic, especially as researchers who get “wrong” answers are put to jail. Why do you refer to somebody’s block and justify it by stating that you do not know the topic? It is simply laziness as you can very easily download from the web American Jewish Yearbook 1948-49 and for 1939-40 and check it yourself. You do not need to know anything in order to be able to add the numbers the source gives. The yearbook 1948-49 has one of the very first calculations that give the number a bit under 6 million.

The calculation has the following errors, each of which you can as easily check from the web, which I strongly suggest you do:

1. AJY 1948-49 gives the Romanian Jewish population in 1939 as 900,000. Modern estimates are 600,000 or less. This error gives 300,000 too many deaths.

2. Then there is missing emigration: 391,000 German and Austrian Jews emigrated to South America 1932-1941. This is from AJY 1948-49, they give Germany+Austria Jewish population in 1939 as 691,000 in the calculation, but on Table 6 on the page 697 the figure for Germany and Austria from the 1939 is 300,000.

3. Legal immigration to Palestine 1939-46 was 75,000 (the last on this quota went 1946-48), illegal immigration to Palestine 1939-48 was 110,000.

4. And then immigration from the DP camps after the war. Legal immigration to Palestine from DP camps 1944-48 was 138,000, immigration to Israel from DP camps 1948-53 was 338,000, immigration of Jews to the USA from DP camps after 1948 was 137,000 (in two parts) and to Canada+South Africa 20,000.

Together these immigration quotas give 1,209,000. Adding 300,000 from Romania gives 1,509,000. The AJY figure is 1.5 million too high. Subtracting 1.5 million from 6 million gives the figure 4.5 million.

But you just refer to a consensus in Cochran’s blog and state that you do not know the topic. If there was a consensus of 5.1 million that can be proven by census data, then official and acceptable estimates of the death toll would not range from 4.2 to 6 million and even higher. If there would be census figures that prove that 4.5 million is too small and the correct figure is between 5 and 6 million, then 4.2 million would not be accepted as a possible death toll by main stream researchers. But this is not the case. Therefore it is absolutely certain that census figures cannot not show that the death toll was between 5 and 6 million.

Indeed, Jewish population estimates always show that the death toll was 4.5 million, but it is well-known and admitted by everybody that population estimates for Eastern Europe are extremely uncertain and to the direction that the Jewish population in the East are given as too high by 1 million or more, even up to 2.5 million. The higher figure of 6 million can be obtained by summing the claimed death tolls in extermination camps, ghettos and killings of Einsatzgruppen. From population estimates figures close to 6 million can only be obtained by forgetting emigration out of Europe, which is commonly done by Holocaust researchers, but it is still wrong. That Jewish population estimates give the number 4.5 million while the sum of claimed deaths in camps is 6 million should alarm even a non-expert that something in these figures is not correct.

Some revisionists/denialists give the death toll as 1-1.5 million. I think this figure is too low, but it is indeed impossible to know how many Jews were in Eastern Europe in 1939 and how many were there in 1946. The main reason for this is that the USSR was not an especially reliable source.

So why would you “give up everything” for the Jew? How stupid can you be? Christianity is nothing more than Jew worship for retards who can’t read what’s plainly written in the Jew Testament.

• “WE WORSHIP what we do know, for salvation is from THE JEWS.” John 4:22
• “THE JEW FIRST.� Romans 1:16
• “For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they OWE IT TO THE JEWS to share with them their material blessings.� Romans 15:27

the Shoah is one of very few safe rackets that Diaspora Jews have left.

But it amazes me to see the likes of RonUnz get so butthurt about it. For example, he doesn’t give a shit about the Vietnamese being in TOTAL control of the “nail salon” industry in the USA, which is actually quite sizeable (and 80% off the books as regards the AfricanAmerican customers). Same with the Punjabis in de facto control of America’s motel industry, which is ALSO not a tiny industry.

I dream of finding a way of making money off of that butthurt-edness. The syndrome is quite strong. It is exploitable.

Hello Utu. That’s why it’s best not to depend solely on one’s own reading of the Bible. Tradition’s important.

OT but interesting, particularly because its Foreign Policy Review:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/31/the-rise-of-the-cyber-mercenaries-israel-nso/

The problem of modern Russian or other communists that they are on defensive constantly defending what Stalin or Lenin did despite that both were truly Russia saviors and the one who took Russia to modern level and turned basket case ready to become Western colony into world premier power. Russia is still living in every respect thanks to what left from the Soviet Union. Instead of defending offensive must the the topic of the day. It has been 27 years and even more so if to consider from 1987 with capitalistic experiment to conclude that it is total failure and Russia is barely treading waters and people well being, and confidence are under attack every day. If one takes the ruler and makes a trend line to what constitutes Soviet citizens rights and duties and compare to what Russian citizens got now the picture will not be pretty. Current pension reform is just one of those indicators of what is going on and this would include medicine, education, accommodations for life that used to be free, vacations, guaranteed employment, working hours and days, spirit of the people before they got confused by BStes. The meaning of 1991-1993 counterrevolution and outcomes and consequences must be aggressively pushed at the front. Enough this BS from liberasts about Soviet past.

Today’s new “religion� is “holocaustianity�–the new religious dogma that 6,000,000 jews were turned into lampshades, soap, or shrunken heads.
This “belief system� is so pervasive, “shrines� to “holocaustianity� have been built, all over the world, even in countries where this “act� never took place.
Add to that, these “shrines�, quite often are funded with taxpayer dollars, which technically is illegal and unconstitutional in the USA.
This “religion� even uses the court systems in various countries to punish non-believers, akin to the Salem witch trials or Spanish inquisition. These “kangaroo courts� are so blatant in their demands that non-believers “repent�, they resort to using a questionable legal doctrine of “judicial review� in which TRUTH that runs counter to the “official belief system� CANNOT BE ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE AND WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED OR ENTERED INTO THE RECORD BY THE COURTS. If this isn’t “witch trial quackery� or inquisition-style proceedings, I don’t know what is.
Monika Schaefer and Ursula Haverbeck are but two “dissenters� from “holocaustianity� who are doing “hard time� in German maximum-security prisons for seeking TRUTH by questioning “holocaustianity� claims.
The “holocaustianity� believers and promoters are “kicking the holocaustianity ball down the road� with their latest scam. You see, according to two jewish psychologists, “holocaust transference syndrome� is the concept that “holocaust� dreams and anguish are not only inheritable, but can be transferred to non-related individuals, but only by and to jews. These two jewish psychologists advocate that holocaust “reparations� be extended to these (and future) “survivors� of the so-called “holocaust�.
It is long overdue to put the holocaust industry out of business.
It is said that “the light of day is the best disinfectant�. Put all of the “holocaust� claims on the table for all to see…and let the chips fall where they may…

The Holohoax is an Orwellian death worship cult, a pseudo-religion which exists primarily to justify the expropriation and rape of Palestine and the guilt shaming and reparations shakedown racket of those European Christians naive or masochistic enough to let themselves be extorted, both in a moral and financial sense- with acute emphasis upon the latter. It has also served as a deflection of the rampant criminality of the elite Jews- and their shabbos goyim counterparts- as they lay waste to a culture and civilization which it took nearly 2000 years of painstaking labor and sacrifice to construct.

In addtion, Holohoax is a useful Sorelian myth which justifies NATO hegemony and endless wars of choice to prevent “the next Holocaust.” The morphic resonance which results in a prolific supply of new Hitlers across the world- whether in Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Russia, etc.- is truly an amazing phenomenon.

LOL

– Please present proof for your alleged Einsatzgruppen mass killing of innocents.

– Present proof for your ‘more than 1.5 million’.

– How were they supposedly murdered?

– Show us the immense human remains that are claimed to be in known locations.

I’m calling you on your incoherent absurdities.

Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985

The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

Let me know when you become a saint, lol, then I’ll take your wisdom over that of St. Cyril .

Very low energy trolling; the finesse of a sledgehammer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Young_Lions_(film)

Not so much. It was there in the 1958 film, The Young Lions. It was on TV last night.

What’s truly “stupid” is your fanatical, unhinged belief in something that is scientifically impossible.

The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jews demand censorship.

Only lies require censorship.

http://www.codoh.com

The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived.

Indeed. Which makes its rousing success the more startling. We like to look down on the “unenlightened” Middle Ages, but our own age of widely believed psy-ops will be considered as the truly benighted era by future generations. Or at least it richly deserves to be.

We need to avoid giving Christian backstabbers a reason to accuse us of misrepresenting their toxic Abrahamic scriptures. So, when we are cultivating dissonance in their thinking, it’s better to quote all of Romans 1:16:

For I [Saul of Tarsus] am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Now we are sufficiently prepared to compare what the Pharisaical Benjaminite wrote at 1:16 to “the gospel of Christ”. It appears, however, that “the Lord Jesus Christ” had in mind a very exclusive notion about who was to benefit from the aforementioned “power of God”:

But He answered [his disciples] and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.� (Mt. 15:24)

It’s obvious that, according to JC, God could save the unjews, but he has chosen not to. The subjugated Canaanite woman in their presence, however, was making a great pest of herself, so Judea’s Messiah added the following insult for emphasis before casting a scrap to her:

But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.� (Mt. 15:26)

A moment later Jesus cures the woman’s daughter. Pious Christians are very pig headed, so they might use the favor bestowed on the woman as an excuse to remain faithful, even though Mt. 15:28 states nothing at all about the daughter being saved, too. So this is a good moment to draw their attention to another occasion, when Jesus issued an important command to his twelve. “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles,” he said, “and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Mt. 10:5) And what are the lost sheep like? Their Messiah is very clear on this point, even while mischaracterizing his own followers:

Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. (Mt. 10:16)

All passages are quoted from the NKJV at biblegateway.com

The “Noahide Project” may be a relatively new organization, but its motive is very far from being a theological novelty to the rabbis and to scholars of Tanakh and Talmud. Rather, the goal of imposing the Torah’s theism and theocracy upon all humans, both Jew and unjew, is as at least as old as Isaiah.

“And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Isaiah 66:23-24 (NKJV, at biblegateway.com)

This passage and its aspiration arose many thousands of years ago. So, it would be better for Israel Shamir not to claim again that “It [the Noahide Project] starts where the H cult ends. Rather, both H cult and the NP are contemporary manifestations, in institutional form, of an ancient project to enslave the world to Jewish superstition and its cult of unlimited willpower and prideful, bloodthirsty nationalism.

Wally: “Please present proof for your alleged Einsatzgruppen mass killing of innocents.”

You are commenting my sentence: “The higher figure of 6 million can be obtained by summing the claimed death tolls in extermination camps, ghettos and killings of Einsatzgruppen.” Notice the word “claimed” in this sentence. I do not allege anything in this sentence.

Wally: “- Present proof for your ‘more than 1.5 million’.”

You are commenting my sentence: “Some revisionists/denialists give the death toll as 1-1.5 million. I think this figure is too low,” As I do not claim to have proven anything in this sentence, I do not need to prove anything to you. Maybe you want me to present a proof that “I think” as a part of “I think the figure is too low”, but I actually do think. You better present a proof that you can think as these your comments certainly do not point to that direction.

Wally “- How were they supposedly murdered?”

I made in my comment no reference to the way Jews were murdered, or suggest that they were murdered. Therefore you are making a question that is totally unconnected with my comment. I do not see any reason answering your question, you pose your questions too impolitely to deserve to be answered.

Wally “- Show us the immense human remains that are claimed to be in known locations.”

I made no comment on any locations where there should be human remains.

Wally: “I’m calling you on your incoherent absurdities.”

Wally, you are like an automaton. Maybe you are an automaton – I could write a program that responses to comments as intelligently as you do. The program would just look for key phrases and write the same set of old slogans as a response. No need to understand what the comment says.

I am not Jewish but lets keep in mind that millions of civilians did die either in these camps or in outright murder. Most were defenseless women , elderly and children.

From my observation. It looks like so many early complaints poured in from Weremacht officers in the Baltic that it likely derailed much of the outright murder in populated eastern areas, and led to a rapid strategy alteration of moving most brutality into camps, mostly because most Germans did not support kidnapping or brutalizing the Jewish population.

The point of a historical event is to investigate and fact find so as not to make these same mistakes in the future, and also to document accurately the event and identify those who cant speak for themselves. It cheapens everyone to support mass murder of the defenseless. That said, it insults any shred of decency to prevent or punish research or fact finding, let alone to target or toss people into prison for expressing opinions about what is a major historical event involving a huge number of civilians wrongly imprisoned and murdered.

If what we are examining is the 6 million number, it will not withstand scrutiny of review, but we definately are going to find 2 to 3 million human beings who were not criminals or endangering anyone who were either killed as Jews, or abducted illegally and eventually succumb to in most cases overwork, starvation and disease.

A basic review of railway transport records along with access to German / Austrian / Swiss survivor payments cross referenced against the Jewish population of particularly Poland and Russia, will give high and low estimates of the number killed. Its nonsensical that 70+ years later we dont have this finally completed post USSR collapse.

I think you will end up at 2.4 to 2.6 million Jewish victims who either died in the camps or were murdered without transport as a 50% confidence interval given the 1930 census, post war survivor benefits, prewar outmigration and postwar migration.

This is a huge human loss to a small population and i think that if what we are seeking is historical fact, the way to get there is to acknowledge mass atrocity and realize each of these was a person and most were guilty of nothing.

To systematically pass or lobby for anti free speech laws insults every murdered civilian and overshadows what should be a attempt to honestly and dilligently record what took place, how the system worked, and document a historical event. I would not respond to censorship with hate, but with calm fact.

At the same time as you investigate, I suggest you realize and keep in mind these were the loved ones and ancestors of people who never had to chance to meet them, and its natural within reason to be protective of loved ones who died under horrible circumstances.

I think this topic in particular is a good example of treating others the way you would want your loved ones treated. My grandfather died after repeatedly being thrown at Seigfried defenses without aircover, and i have no doubt that much of the allied rush to fight in inclement weather along the German border, when a weeks delay would have massively reduced late war casualties, was in significant part due to allied planner awareness that they had obliterated the supply network to virtually all these camps, and knew this would lead to mass starvation and disease. It was no accident that allied columns were directed at non-strategic towns that housed these forced labor camps in Western Germany as soon as they entered Germany. Allied planners knew what would be found there because they had recon photos and were actively blowing the supply lines to these camps.

Like a lot of those who lost loved ones they never knew in the Nazi forced labor camps, i have my own loss, and being bitter or hateful brings no one back. Use your god given intelligence to learn and understand, but be kind to others who are trying to cope with their own loss.

Bolshevik style jailings or causing harm to others is not a “coping mechanism”, and deserves no tolerance. For the rest,.. you tend to best cultivate fairness, understanding and consideration by offering it to others – my 2 cents

said:
“Probably because they knew things the average goy wouldn’t even believe.”

Do tell us what Jews knew that “the average goy wouldn’t even believe.”

Past history tells us that Jews ‘knew things’ that never happened, were scientifically impossible.

“Some stories are true that never happened.”
– Elie Wiesel

http://www.codoh.com

LENGTHY, select ‘more’ if necessary.

– Since you are a Believer, please tell us how many you believe ‘died in those camps’.
Tell us how they supposedly died, tell us how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked, and please show us the immense human remains that are claimed to be in known locations.

– Please actually show us documents with your claimed ‘Wehrmacht complaints that derailed the alleged murders’.

– Who “supports mass murder” that did not occur? You ARE indeed supporting suppression of free speech by making such absurd claims.

– The reason why there are laws and taboos against free speech about the impossible ‘holocaust’ narrative is because it cannot withstand scrutiny, as I am demonstrating in my challenges to you.

– You make claims about ‘loved ones and their allegedly murdered kin’, which you cannot prove, while at the same you are denigrating Germans and their loved ones. IOW, you’re a hypocrite.

– I remind you that your father allegedly died fighting in WWII, as did quite a few others. So what?

– Speaking of recon photos, why don’t the aerial photos of Auschwitz show what we are told we should see? Why have some of the these photos been tampered with? See * below:

– I remind you that not a single autopsy ever revealed that anyone at German labor camps were ‘gassed’.
– I remind you that the illegal Allied strafing & bombing of civilian transports carrying food & medicine contributed largely to the disease problems within the camps. A disease problem that affected much of Europe during WWII.
– I remind you that the Allies also had concentration camps. \
-I remind you that the Germans did nothing more than what the Allies did and you cannot prove otherwise.
– I challenge you to present proof of what you allege.

[MORE]

* VIDEO classic: Auschwitz Aerial photos, some tampered with to fit the fake story : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11669&p=87558
ex.:
Drawn in ‘Auschwitz Jews being marched to gas chambers’, ON A ROOF.

aerial of Babi Yar at exact time of alleged 34,000 Jews being shot into ravine:

Nothing happening that would necessarily be happening IF the story was factual.

also so see:
Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985
and:
American Pravda: Holocaust Denial, by Ron Unz ;https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

select ‘more’ if necessary.

This is never necessary on a Wally post.

Not true. See my post above yours.

Do you ever get anything right? No you don’t. But then you are a Zionist. LOL

Still waiting for you to tell us how the impossible ‘gas chambers’ worked and for you to show us the ‘millions upon millions’ of alleged human remains at allegedly known places.

http://www.codoh.com

Wally is not very intelligent artificial intelligence created by Ron Unz.

Yet I certainly made a fool of you and your fantasy about the impossible ‘Nazi gas chambers’. LOL

Everyone see: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-post-war-france-and-post-war-germany/
comment 429:

The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

– So NOW you try to weasel out by saying that there were no Einsatzgruppen killing of innocents … after you have realized you have no proof. LOL

– So you do admit that you have no proof for your ‘more than 1.500,000’. So how did these ‘more than 1.5M’ supposedly die then? All in impossible ‘gas cambers’? Magic Nazi vaporizing machines? LOL You’ve now hopelessly painted yourself into a corner.

– You are being challenged to tell us how you think they were supposedly murdered. You’ll either tuck tail and run again or you’ll say something brilliant like ‘steam chambers’ as was accepted at Nuremberg. LOL
I can see you in court now:

Your honor, I think that more than 1,500,000 Jews were murdered, but well, I’m not going to tell the court how I think they were supposedly murdered and I can’t show you the immense human remains that are claimed to exist in known locations. But I’m a Faithful Believer, so you just need to trust me.

LOL

Poor spineless fool, you are afraid to even try to back up your own claim of ‘more than 1,500,000.’

True enough, I do have the answers quite quickly & effortlessly. But hey, I’m smart, you are not, and besides, Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message. I note that you cannot refute any of the information that I post.

Oh the weak excuses you conjure up in attempting to avoid being made to look even more foolish than you have shown already. Only liars are afraid of debate. Truth has met the enemy and it is a coward.
recommended:
Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985
and:
American Pravda: Holocaust Denial, by Ron Unz : https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

“- So NOW you try to weasel out by saying that there were no Einsatzgruppen killing of innocents … after you have realized you have no proof. LOL

– So you do admit that you have no proof for your ‘more than 1.500,000′. So how did these ‘more than 1.5M’ supposedly die then? All in impossible ‘gas cambers’? Magic Nazi vaporizing machines? LOL You’ve now hopelessly painted yourself into a corner.

– You are being challenged to tell us how you think they were supposedly murdered. You’ll either tuck tail and run again or you’ll say something brilliant like ‘steam chambers’ as was accepted at Nuremberg. LOL”

OK Wally, I admit you are not an automaton created by the software wizard of Unz. About your questions:
I am no expert on the Einsatzgruppen issue, but as far as I know Himmler’s speech to SS officers at Posen on October 6, 1943 is considered authentic:
We came to the question: what to do with the women and children? I decided to find a clear solution here as well. I did not consider myself justified to exterminate the men — that is, kill them or allow them to be killed — and allow the avengers of our sons and grandsons in the form of their children to grow up. The difficult resolve had to be taken to make this race disappear from the earth.

Second question is why I think 1-1.5 million is too little as the death toll of Jews in WWII. This is because I calculate about 1 million deaths in the area outside the USSR of 1946:
– 137,000 died in Romania in camps and transports, not deaths caused by Germans.
– 58,000 shot by Germans in Yugoslavia,
– about 167,000 died in ghettos and labor camps in Poland mostly of diseases. I summed the figure from Polish data for ghettos and camps, there were many rather small labor camps
– about 300,000 died in concentration camps in Germany and Austria. I summed the death tolls of the camps, they were 390,000, I estimated that the Jewish part was about 300,000. Most died when the camp supply system failed.
– 30,000 in Theresienstadt mostly of diseases,
– 50,000 died in German invasion of 1939 in battle and terror after the invasion, I estimated it as 10% of Polish army losses as Jews were 10% and there was a conscription system.
– 7,000 Warsaw ghetto upraising died in battle,
– 59,000 in Majdanek and 60,000 Auschwitz registered Jewish prisoners died mostly of diseases, using low estimates to these camps.
– 150,000 sent to Chelmno disappeared, presumed dead, Operation Reinhardt camps (Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec) my estimate is 150,000 based on the sizes of claimed massgraves.
These make together 1 million. My estimate for Operation Reinhardt camps may be high, but I sor sure missed many smaller labor camps, so the figure 1 million is a well-justified round number. The figure for Chelmno may change if more research is done, but so far we must assume that the people (100,000 of them children from the Lodz ghetto) died. I do not exclude the possibility that they were taken somewhere but that is speculation.

If 1 million is a fairly correct number for the deaths in the area outside the USSR of 1946, then what is a reasonable death toll in the USSR? I calculate like this. The number of Jews in Soviet hands in 1941 was 1.3 million Polish Jews and 2.8 million Soviet and Baltic Jews according to AJY data. That is 4.1 million. This estimate is almost certainly too high. The correct figure may be 1-2 million lower, maybe even 2.5 million but that is the limit how low it can be. Using the figure 2 million higher, there were 2 million Jews in 1941. 60-80% were evacuated. That is 1.2-1.6 million. Of the evacuated some 30% died in Soviet camps as at that time evacuation/POW/concentration camps had high death ratios. Thus, about 0.5 million died in Soviet camps and 1 million survived. About 0.5 million were not evacuated. Some were shot as partisans, some as families of partisans.
There were 2 million Jews in the USSR in 1948, so 1 million survived in German hands of these 0.5 million and 1.35 million who were transported to Operation Reinhardt camps. Summing: assuming that the Soviet figure of Jews in 1939 is 2 million high, then about 2 million Jews died: 1 million outside the USSR, 0.5 million in German hands in the USSR and 0.5 million in Soviet hands. This means that 0.85 million out of 1.85 million died in the USSR in German hands. That can be possible assuming concentration camp death rate was 30% and 250,000 were shot.

Assuming that the Soviet figure for Jews in 1939 is 1 million high, then in the USSR of 1941 were 3.1 million Jews. About 2.1 million were evacuated leaving 1 million. Of the evacuated died 30%, that is 630,000 and 1.5 million survived. In German hands were 2.35 million. Out of them survived 0.5 million to get the figure of 2 million to the USSR of 1948, but probably 350,000 emigrated out of Europe. In this scenario 1.5 million died in German hands in the USSR. The total number of deaths would be 1 million outside the USSR, 1.5 million in German hands and 0.6 million in Soviet hands, 3.1 million.

The numbers for the area of the USSR of 1946 are very uncertain but simple calculations give some guidelines. It is fairly impossible to get the total death toll to 1-1.5 million.

Do not ask me another time. I have given these numbers already n times. Just check from my previous posts. I am not going to write the same numbers yet another time and I know your denier answer in advance. You do not need to write it.

LENGTHY, select ‘more’ if necessary.
you said:
– “Himmler’s speech to SS officers at Posen on October 6, 1943 is considered authentic”

“Considered authentic” by who? LOL See your usual nonsense blown apart here: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/ comment #1

“In fact, you have no proof for any of your laughable “estimatesâ€� of German murders in the labor sites. You’re an incompetent nutter.”

Concentration camps in the Eastern front had high death rates. Germans had small POW camps in Northern Finland, their death ratio was 24%. In Finnish POW camps, which were bigger, death ration was 29%. We can safely estimate 25-30% as a normal death ratio for all causes. As Germans took 1.6 million Polish Jews from Western Poland and 1.2 million Jews from Western Europe to camps, which is 2.8 million, we can expect that 0.7-0.8 million of them died from all causes. Adding Romanian and Yugoslavian deaths and deaths from war we get to 1 million outside the USSR. I did not say they were murdered, but they were taken to camps by force.

Trolls are defined by the language they use and by that definition you are a troll. I will not comment your messages any more.

IOW, you cannot prove that Germans killed innocents at their labor camps. If you could you would.
You continue with your laughably fake ‘garbage in, garbage out’ numbers in spite of me proving their absurdity. But that is what liars do. ‘After they lie they must continue to lie’.
You also dodged what I posted in comment #107 above … because you have no proof of your claims. LOL Everyone, look at what j2 runs from.

The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are laughable, scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

Here you go:
Laughable fake photo of alleged shooting of 34,000 Jews at Babi Yar ravine. But True Believers like you think that it is ‘proof’. LOL
No human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’ as alleged.
http://www.codoh.com

A few years ago Yad Vashem Research at the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem told me about 1 million Jews died in Auschwitz contradicting the 4 million in my old Encyclopedia Britannica. On his website fpp.co.uk, David Irving mentioned reading British transcripts of intercepted SS radio reports that 1.2 million Jews were shot in Eastern Europe in 1 year. The only problem I see is that the Nazis had a habit of calling all their enemies Jews. I have no idea how anybody could check how many Jews survived in Europe when countries like France and Germany were nervous enough to make it a crime to identify anybody as a Jew. Self identification in censuses? Would that be likely to be accurate after the Nazis? Wouldn’t Jews be nervous too? Didn’t the number of Jews in Canada decline by half in their last census? That may have been because they were ashamed of Israel. Being a non-religious Jew is just a label people can adopt or discard.

[email�protected]

Lengthy, select ‘more” if necessary.
said:
” On his website fpp.co.uk, David Irving mentioned reading British transcripts of intercepted SS radio reports that 1.2 million Jews were shot in Eastern Europe in 1 year.”

What “intercepted SS radio reports”?

Irving has no proof of such claims, notice that he does not present it, he does not show us the claimed “report”.
Imagine trying that in a legit court of law.

‘Your honor, I read a radio report about the Germans supposedly killing 1.2M Jews, but I cannot show the court that report or the immense human remains that are claimed to be in known locations. You just need to trust me.’

Your point about Jews avoiding being counted is a good one. The alleged number of Jews is complete nonsense. There are many, many more then they let on.

Most Jews are not ‘religious’ so they do not say they are Jews in census questions about religion. They consider themselves Jews nonetheless. They want you to think they are so few & helpless victims when in fact they create massive resentment towards themselves by their owns actions.

According to Jewish law Jews are to avoid being counted.
“To actually count Jews directly is forbidden (Talmud, Yoma 22b), as the prophet says: “And the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which shall neither be measured nor counted.”
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/896203/jewish/Laws-of-Counting-Jews.htmand:

‘Why is it forbidden to count Jews?’: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/18472
“This opening verse of our Biblical portion teaches that it is forbidden to take a number count of the Israelites, a census activity which Jewish organizations are constantly involved in doing. This prohibition is reinforced by the prophet Hosea (chapter 2), when he declares: “The number of the children of Israel shall be as the sands of the sea, which cannot be numbered and cannot be counted…â€� And historically even King David learned the bitter lesson of the power of this command, when- against the will of his Chief Commander Joab – he ordered a census, and the Israelites suffered a plague (II Samuel, 24).”
– “I have seen all the (Jewish?) works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind. That which is crooked cannot be made straight, and that which is wanting cannot be numbered….â€� Book of Ecclesiaste

http://www.codoh.com

So Wally, you want to know what happened to the bodies of Jews who died during the World War II in the area belonging to the Soviet Union in 1946.

Firstly, we have to show that many Jews died in this area. I estimate the number of Jews in this are: The Jewish population of Poland in 1939 was between 2.7 and 3.3 million. I think the best figure is 3 million, the same as in census of 1931. Natural population growth emigrated to Western Europe. Of these 1 million lived in Eastern Poland. From Western Poland fled 0.3 million, so we have 1.3 million Polish Jews in the area of the USSR of 1946. AJY figures for the Soviet Union and Baltic states for 1939 sum to 2.8 million. I reduce from this number 1-2 millions for a few good reasons. Thus, there were 2.1-3.1 million Jews in this area. Additionally comes 1.35 million Jews sent to Operation Reinhardt camps that I have not included to the death toll of the areas outside the USSR. Together these make 3.45-4.45 million. Of them survived in the Soviet Union 2 million and about 300,000 came to DP camps. That leaves 1.15-2.15 million missing. 1.15 is 33% of 3.45 and 2.15 is 48% of 4.45. No matter if these Jews stayed in the area or escaped to deeper Russia, they would have been put to camps or overcrowded ghettos and about 1/3 of them would have died.

That is, there had to be 1-1.5 million dead Jews in every case even without any Einsatzgruppen killings. Where are the bodies? Where are the bodies of the POWs from the army of Paulus? Are their locations known? What usually happens to a body? It is either buried or cremated. This must be what happened to these bodies. Possibly they were cremated in camps and ghettos in the war time, possibly they were first buried and then digged up and burned, maybe after the war by Soviets. If so, the remains or ashes are most probably under some monument of unknown war victims, not a Jewish monument as there could not be certainty that the remains were Jewish.

So, you LOL and deny. Reconsidering, utu may be right. Wally can be acronym for Wizard’s Automaton to LoL and denY. If so, then utu is acronym for Unz Troll playing Undecided, Wiz is the alter-ego of the software wizard of Unz and MOMUS/crimson/manorchurch is a troll who is allowed to use several names in a site that discourages use of several names. But Wally is the only automaton.

The holocaust, and by that I mean the death of Jews in things like gas chambers, is preposterous on its face. One need not think a very long time or look at the evidence a very long time to see it is false. I am deeply ashamed that I ever believed it because it is a cockamamie story, a story that should be viewed with distrust. When I was a child, I knew how those people died. I knew they were sick, but when I got older, I no longer saw the obvious. I accepted that they died the way I was told – in gas chambers – by the millions. The revisionists said it was not true, so I took another look and began to notice the obvious again. All the dead in the camps that we see in piles are all skinny. That alone tells you that they died as a result of something other than gas chambers. Was it starvation? We are told that it was difficult to bring food into the camps because so for that reason there could have been starvation. We are also told that the Germans “starved” the prisoners. But that idea that the Germans starved the prisoners falls when you see other photos of people at that time who were not skinny, some even a little on the heavy side. How is that possible if the Germans starved the prisoners in the camps? You then discover that typhus symptoms are vomiting, nausea, abdominal pain – the victim cannot eat. When you don’t eat, you grow thin and eventually begin to look like the Biafra chldren. The prisoners looked exactly like the Biafra children. They could not eat, they grew thin, and they died of this dread disease. And that is what so obviously happened. It is not nice to put someone in a concentration camp because of their heritage. It is a mean thing to do. But we did it too, and the only difference is that our country was not a war zone of the losing side. No, I am not a believer in the holocaust, but I can say that without worrying too much because I’ve got no skin in the game.

Yep.
Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg
fat Jew at “extermination” camp LOL

The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

For someone who said he would no longer respond to me, you certainly are back, making a fool of yourself again. LOL

– The alleged immense human remains are claimed by “historians”, not me, to exist in known locations.

– You have “showed” nothing of the kind. Your numbers are laughable bullshit from your mind not, they are empirical facts.

you said:
“That is, there had to be 1-1.5 million dead Jews in every case even without any Einsatzgruppen killings. Where are the bodies? Where are the bodies of the POWs from the army of Paulus? Are their locations known?”

– No, there did not ‘have to be”. LOL
More ‘garbage in, garbage out’, you extrapolate from your bogus numbers that 1-1.5M Jews died. GIGO.
And assuming they died in specific sites, ,b>as is claimed, there would necessarily be immense human remains, which there is not.

– You also do not tell us how your alleged 1-1.5 Jews supposedly “died”. No, that would further complicate matters for your baseless claims.

– You cite “Einsatzgruppen killings” but cannot present proof for them either.

You ignore the fact that cremation does not cause copses to disappear, you also ignore:

“The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed (LOL) and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves.�
– Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87

You’re ignoring the very narrative that you are trying to defend. LOL

– von Paulus’s POWs were sent to gulags where they died one by one over long periods of time, the remains were disposed of accordingly. The remains are not claimed to exist in immense mass graves as in the impossible ‘holocaust’ claims.
recommended:
The “Extermination Camps� of “Aktion Reinhardt�, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious Evidence,� Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies� Bloggers, By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues :
https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en

Wally, you are an H-troll under a false flag. Not a truth seeker.

IOW, you been made a fool of, are embarrassed, and have no rational response.

Such is the way of True Believers.

No immense human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’.

The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

Indeed, I am a True Believer. You said it correctly, Wally. I truly believe it all happened by God’s miracle just as the European Holocaust denial laws say it happened, though all my calculations point to another direction. No, Wally, I do not have an explanation. God’s miracles cannot be explained. Mathematics fails on this case, like the laws of physics failed on 9/11 and the USA in general, but God can do it. Are you an atheist? I hope you do not live in Europe, because if you do, you are a notorious criminal, a Holocaust denier of the worst sort. I am not any denier.

I accept your surrender.

Only lies require censorship.

The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

Unz wisely avoided discussion of gruesome details, for the calculation of bodies, stoves and bullets is too awful for a modern reader. It is a meta-narrative, dealing with discussion of the topic without entering the topic, and it was a clever and calculated choice. It is not necessary to overburden the reader with macabre specifics of the events.

When compared to verified, non-imagined events connected with World War 2, he didn’t skip the gruesome details, calculation of bodies, stoves and bullets because there were few to mention.

I was gonna say. After war’s end alone, between 45/46, something in the region of 9 to 13 Million Germans from the eastern provinces (now Poland, Czech – where it is still legal to kill a German – et al.) were “lost”.

But of course to mention that on the same day someone said “Holocaust” is Holocaust relativisation, which is punishable by prison sentence.

The ‘survivor’ part is intended to convey and enforce the myth that they where all scheduled for execution. An instance of clever victimhood propaganda tactics.
The victimhood tactics and other tactics of framing and manipulation are also used by liberal progressives (of which the tactics appear to be wholly modeled on the Jew tactics), as these days they also talk of ‘survivors’ among their own ranks (‘survivors’ of alleged or proven sexual abuse for instance).