Crack team of boffins hash out how e-scooters should sound – but they need your help* Boffins from UCL's Person-Environment-Activity Research Laboratory (PEARL) have linked arms with London e-scooter providers to decide on a "universal sound" for the silent but deadly transport mode. It remains illegal in the UK to use a privately owned battery-powered deathtrap, but that hasn't stopped the great unwashed – as …
"Stupid laws should be overturned."
Poor Alan is missing so much by that claim (related to scooters only).
Here in North scooters have been legal few years now and they are basically a public nuisance to everyone else.
First: No license needed as they are classified as pedestrians. Which means you can be as drunk as you want and ride as you like, totally legal. Traffic laws do not apply, in short.
Second, derived from pedestrian status: They ride on sidewalks. At 15mph. AFAIK no-one has yet killed other people but dozens of hospital cases every summer. *More* than pedestrian/car -collisions. Obviously: Cars don't drive at sidewalk and pedestrians staying at sidewalks are not run over by a car. That doesn't apply to scooters.
Third: About a dozen rental companies running thousands of scooters means they are everywhere, laying around. Mostly with empty battery, but in general they just block sidewalks by laying around.
Fourth: Scooter as a vehicle is a horrible one. It doesn't have any stability at all (at skateboard level, i.e. none) and it still moves 15mph. Most have only rear brake which, at that speed, and with 2" wheel, is basically meaningless. Any stone or pit on the sidewalk and off goes the rider.
Fifth: The culture. As it's legally a pedestrian, it mean no traffic laws apply. Ever. So riders*act* like pedestrians too. Except it happens at 15mph, not 1.5mph. Typical rider is a teenager or even younger, who has no idea how the traffic works. Then they wonder why so many things "happen".
Classifying it as pedestrian is and was a major cock-up, a bicycle would have been much better legal reference. But it's piss poor as a bicycle too, because of the 2" wheels it has.
It' s easy to see one as efficient transportation without having any idea of the down sides. Those are obvious only afterwards.
It's actually cheaper than taking the bus. (Also there's a pandemic on.) 6km both ways, meaning it's just about enough battery charge to not need charging at work even in winter.
I used to take my bike, but it's been stuck in a repair shop for a solid year now, and I'm too much of a doormat to really go annoy them about it.
Turn up and demand it back. Had that happen to me last year, although on a shorter time scale. If they've had it for a year then they've no intention of fixing it and you should take it somewhere else. (In my case it turned out they *could* finish it for that afternoon, after a week of "come back tomorrow", not a great job though and have now got the tools to do that particular job myself.)
>A single universal tone?
I was wondering this also, since I've not noticed a single universal tone for electric cars, whether they be going forward or reversing.
Given the variety of car engine noise, I would have thought it would sensible to define a sound profile that people would recognise as being a moving vehicle and which gives sufficient audio cues to enable a person to roughly determine the direction from which it originating and some indication of its directionand speed of travel. Beyond that let the vendors develop their own 'ring tones'.
If we are to have universal tones, someone better ensure they are all available under creative commons license.
Mentioning Flash Gordon made me think of Buck Roger's rocket (in those old 1930's era movie serials [as well as a possible full length feature film] with Buster Crabbe) that sounded a lot like the low droning sound of a pulse jet (not to be confused with the sound of a V1 during the WW2 blitz on London, which only posed a danger when the noise STOPPED)
(either that or it was the sound of a multi-engine airship of the same time period)
"All cars ... why make electric ones a special case?"
Because ordinary cars do not have thousands of AA-sized li-ion batteries in them. Also, ordinary cars are already being recycled.
Steel, aluminium and lead batteries are trivial to recycle with profit, plastic is a case-by-case, but li-ion is something else. And electric cars have around 100 kilos of those.
The batteries remain unrecyclable according to the recycling industry.
There IS work being done on this. But the only companies operating are going $backwards operationally and ripping through VC money (subsidised).
So for the foreseeable future, @~10yrs the batteries go into landfill. That's about half the car by weight.
I saw one before COVID hit on a main dual-carriageway road with a 40mph limit, weaving in and out of traffic - and it was pulling away from me dramatically! I thought I'd imagined it.
Then a few weeks ago this was in the news - so I knew I hadn't after all.
I live in Nottingham, and we have a scooter hire 'trial' ongoing. By 'trial', they mean it's going to be approved no matter what, in spite of the numerous 'incidents'. The state of the scooters' tyres in some cases is shocking.
They're dumped anywhere. And over 90% of users don't wear the supplied helmets (or any other helmet). The so-called rules are ignored completely.
In one case, an 8-year old was stopped on one - his mother had paid for it for him. Since you need to have at least a provisional driving licence, and you can only get one of those if you're 17 (or 16 if you have a disability), there was no excuse. You see kids on them - piggy-backing, which is also against the rules - all the time.
Best of all, electronic billboards are actually advertising the things around the city - not the trial scooters, but the ones that are automatically illegal if used anywhere other than on private property (and with permission from the land owner).
Thing is, back in the day, people were using high-power AM CBs with awful RF design on frequencies which had been set aside for other things. Frankly, there should have been more prosecutions.
When the case for CB radio was finaly made (and I don't doubt that the sheer number of ilegal sets had some small impact, but it was by no means the only thing) they were given separated frequencies and mandated use of FM which had the side effect of requiring far better RF design (you can't do FM with just a diode). Perhaps they weren't quite as usefull over long distances, but in the UK that's not really a problem.
The sorts of e-scooters bought by people who then go on to run small children over on the pavement are still in the poor-RF, blatting all over legitimate users part of their lifecycle.
>When the case for CB radio was finaly made (and I don't doubt that the sheer number of ilegal sets had some small impact, but it was by no means the only thing)
People forget before Ofcom selling frequency bands off to the mobile networks, the UK government were very anti anyone doing anything with the radio frequencies that wasn't government controlled.
802.11 really was an accident, as we have seen there hasn't been an increase in unlicensed frequency bands even though the demand is there.
a rider wearing a helmet does not protect the other person/property when he crashes into someone or something... so who cares about HELMETS anyway? Best to focus on what is important, like NOT injuring pedestrians or making their phones (and other things) fly through the air and break into pieces when hitting the concrete.
In my part of the world anything on wheels (bikes, skates, scooters, etc.) on a walkway or boardwalk or anything similar can not exceed a certain speed (8 to 10 mph as I recall) but they are not disallowed. As long as people use them responsibly there should be no problem. Bicycles can exceed 30mph and weigh more. So same rules should apply to scooters. But I still like the warning noise idea. It's been floated around for a while now with electric cars.
Back when I was a kid, large luxury cars ran so quiet I could not tell there was a car behind me sometimes and so I did not get out of the way and the inevitable horn honk nearly made me wreck my bike a couple of times. Don't wanna do THAT noise to pedestrians on the sidewalk, THAT's for sure!
Preach.
You on a recreational means of motion? Take it to the streets.
Awww, you too scared to ride with all the big scary cars?
Maybe that means ain't for you. Take it on the arches.
Spoken after no less than 7 years as a bike messenger, and after vowing to respect the rules of the road at year 5. Plus, I surbived with blimminal blain blamage.
For a reason too: Anything as unstable as a scooter *does not belong* to the streets.
Anyone who believes so is, frankly, a moron. Sorry.
*Any* irregularity on the street, like water drain or something and scooter rider falls to the tarmac.
Unstable steering and no brakes to speak of. And literally crashes to every loose stone on the street. No, that's *not* a good idea.
The answer's simple. A man with a red flag walking in front of the scooter.
.
.
.
Checking, I see it wasn't the telegraph.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17510101
"The chief engineer of the Post Office, Sir William Preece, in 1878: 'The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys.' "
Some other web pages date this to 1876, and so I don't claim to know that it's authentic.
But https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Preece contains a description of him as "in some remarkable ways, an utter blockhead".
The engine sound from Amiga Lotus Turbo Challenge II.
When you turn it on, it can play the theme music.
(first thought was benny hill theme music, already mentioned, and then the screams of souls eternally trapped in hell, but I guess partially covered by the poll).
Normal bicycles are silent, and can go pretty fast too. Why can't the same solution be used for e-Scooters, a bell?
Have you heard the Get-Ir e-Mopeds? No, just a faint whirr, and again, no problem there apparently.
Just the singling out of e-Scooters, because they're more affordable to the common pleb. But I would support a lower max speed in consumer models (especially targeted at younger people who will use them on pavements).
"Normal bicycles are silent, and can go pretty fast too. Why can't the same solution be used for e-Scooters, a bell?"
Because "we" (for some population of "we") have decided that these newfangled inventions are the devil's spawn and deserve equal parts regulation and scorn.
This attitude is driven in part by the hatred of seeing someone have a good time doing something we do not understand. It's also partially driven in response to doucebaggery behavior of some of the riders.
"doucebaggery behavior of some of the riders."
Say "almost all of them" and I'll agree. Riders are legally pedestrians and that shows: No rules. Literally.
Also technical problem, scooter is literally a toy and it definitely wasn't ever meant to move faster than you can kick it. Basiclly 2-wheeled skateboard.
Damned things are common at my local big city downtown area, which is all one-way multilane streets. I worked there before work at home became a thing. More than once I almost ran over a pack of those scooters thst came barreling across the road, going against the flow of traffic, off the sidewalks. Sonce they were against the flow they couldn't see the oncoming traffic had the red, and they didn't bother looking at the pedestrian light or stop to make sure no traffic was coming. So, I had the green, and am going 25MPH, when across the intersection goes half a dozen or so scooters, racing and weaving amongst themselves. Happened both in the afternoon on my way in, and at around midnight on my way home. Far be it from me to stop anyone's fun, but when their fun means I'm constantly slamming on the brakes and risking being rear ended because they ride like road laws and the laws of physics don't apply, time for the fun to end.
In a similar manner to those "voices" that warn you of a reversing lorry, it could say
"Super Cool Hipster In Transit" constantly and if it goes faster, just say the initials in a higher-pitched tone "SCHIT".
Or:
"Arrogant bawbag approaching".
"Entitled to use the pavement whether you like it or not regardless of the law".
An old-fashioned "mee maw" police siren.
Various aeroplane engine noises, e.g. Spitfire and Messerschmitt Bf 109.
"Arrrrgh!!! Gerroutthefukinwayit'sgonnacrash!!!!"
Funny you mentioned that but I read this the other week
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1037306/table-of-change-to-the-highway-code.pdf
and there is not ONE mention of e-scooters.
Looks like DafT have cocked up AGAIN.
I was about to point out the hire scooters in my town don't have any kind of bell or buzzer on them, then googled to be sure and apparently they DO. Yet I did all their tutorials prior to riding and there was zero mention of it, and on the couple of occasions I've used one I've never seen it (nor have I ever heard one make any noise). So perhaps they could start by informing users such a noise making device exists.
I think it's a recent addition.
The Wind company that is involved in the trial here in Nottingham recently (as in December/January) replaced the extant yellow models with neon-green LINK e-scooters from Superpedestrian. And it is the latter which has the bell device.
This is a good thing as long as you completely overlook the fact that the scooter trial started two years ago, and that many of those causing the problems with them simply aren't going to use the bell (and even if they did it would be in the 'get the f--- out of the way' sense).
And since the scooters - even the trial ones - are absolutely not supposed to be used on the pavements in the first place, the bell is a bit of a red herring.
Ah, maybe there's a newer model of the ones here that does have a bell, they've been here for about 2-3 years.
As for the red herring element, I partly agree, but even using the road it's worth having given the amount of pedestrians who walk out into the road without looking.
Although as a cyclist I find I already have quite an effective warning system fitted in my face - a hole at the front which emits the words "look out". It even automatically varies the volume and level of cursing depending on the stupidity of the pedestrian.
No need to ban them.
Just observe that as a motor vehicle, they should be used *only* on the road, properly taxed, insured, and MOT'd. And with all the usual penalties for misbehaving drivers, only possibly more so.
Oh, and to all those idiots that just dump the damn things in the middle of the pavement when they get bored with them... I' assuming salvage rights apply?
>Apparently, they're saving the planet…
To those who don't look at the data...
There was a recent report (not got reference to hand) which discovered that e-scooters/e-bikes for hire (in the UK) tended to replace waling and other environmentally friendly forms of movement, whereas private e-scooters/e-bikes did actually replace car and other vehicle usage.
Airhorn from Ocean going liner?
Don't see why it don't just need a horn or bell like a bike does. We all know that every bike has installed and uses their bell to carefully warn pedestrians of their approach.
Does this also mean the Mobility Scooters will also get a big roaring engine sound too?
I don't know about where you are but the bicycle bells here are about an inch (25mm) in diameter and the tiny 'ding' they make is not discernable in traffic and city noise.
Particularly when at speed by the time you can hear the bell you are about to be wearing it and the rest of the bike/scooter.
I quite fancy one of the off road scooters for the trails where I live, with 70 mile range and plenty of power, I could explore further.
In the city the they should come pre-packed with a Darwin award.
A Wilhelm Scream recorded nice albums, but that may not fit for a e-scoot. Maybe for this one
Imagine a not-too-distant future where every goddam vehicle has to make some form of noise as it moves, and that noise is designed to be distracting enough to make sure you look at it.
Now imagine a city full of them, and millions of people who live (and sleep) near roads...
Seeing as it's not April 1st, and lots of reserach has already been done into this
The original idea of noisemakers was to only work up to about 10-20km/h (where tyre noise is enough to do the job anyway) and be relatively quiet. The intent is to stop them sneaking up on people in carparks, not warn them 200 metres out
EU regulations on EV pedestrian alerting noise emitters have only existed for 9 years and already cover this. Stand in front of a Leaf sometime. It's fairly unobstrusive
I still like the idea of a jetsons flitter, but the dictated noise is basically shaped "white noise" - which is better for allowing people to stereolocate the direction than single tones are (this was discovered 40 years ago when trying to find better ambulance tones. A burst of white noise worked far better than bare "blues and twos" in allowing drivers and pedestrians to work out where the thing was coming from and getting out of the way)
Every brand should be allocated an instrument and just have an hour or two of free-jazz improvisation on that instrument as the sound. As different scooters approach and pass one another new and unique moments of combined music would be created.
Also it would have a positive effect on traffic, crowded public transport and house prices as everyone aside from extreme free-jazz afficionados would be driven out of the city pretty damn quick.
OK, we doubt e-scooters are capable of much over 30mph, if that
E-scooters are being advertised with claimed speeds up to 50mph, and there are videos on your toob showing 'Organ Doners' weaving through traffic on the North Circular. Completely mad given the state of our roads.
But yeah, if I was a lot younger and thinner I'd love one!
You can already buy them with claimed speeds up to 100mph! Greater than 50mph is the norm now.
The problem is that at that speed, something so light and with such small wheels will become highly unstable if it encounters the smallest deviation in the running surface. Pothole? No chance.
I have dashcam footage of some asshole face-planting the pavement when he tried to swing on to it from the road and hit the higher part of the kerb.
Since he (and his mate) had purposely been obstructing me, I made a very extravagant show of laughing at him when I passed him.
The constant sound of Yoko Ono quote-singing-unquote "I'm a little teapot".
I can't imagine anyone *wanting* that sound to follow them everywhere, much less *paying* to have it announcing their approach.
Perhaps an audio deep fake of her shouting "I am a festering twatwomble!" might cause a serious reduction in their use?
Or, and I realize this might run afoul of a few current laws, but perhaps they can be amended to allow for it: rig the seats to deliver an excrutiatingly painful electric shock through the crotch that causes the driver & passenger (if any) to scream in agony while the device is in motion.
(Inserts a giant, neon, blinking, scrolling sarcasm tag.)
I voted for "Flight of the Bumblebee" (the Al Hirt version) (what, am I the only one with fond memories of The Green Hornet as a child?), but I might have voted differently if number 3 were instead "A seven-year-old yelling 'Nyyyaaaaoooowwww'".
This post has been deleted by its author
Bicycles don't make a noise either and although cyclists shouldn't be cycling where pedestrians walk, the reality is our infrastructure is in a poor shape.
But the average cyclist is probably doing 15mph at the most and there doesn't seem to be much clamour to change any laws regarding cyclists and pedestrians.
The issue is the speed, not the sound.
Shirley 0MPH is a different speed than 60MPH ...
What is the difference in force if you rear-end a car going 60MPH if you are doing 120MPH, vs you doing 60 MPH and hit the same car when parked?
How about two cars each doing 60 MPH getting into a head-on?
How about two cars getting into a head-on, one doing 60, one doing 120?
For ease in calculation, assume all cars mass the same before percussive dismantling.
""Speed doesn't kill ... Rather, the difference in speed kills."
No, that's also wrong.
It's the sudden stop that kills."
And a sudden stop isn't a difference in speed?
Plus; it doesn't need to be a stop to be deadly. A train going at 125mph hitting a rambler walking in the same direction along the train tracks at 3mph will also end up rather bad for the rambler's health, even though neither will 'stop'. Ergo: difference in speed kills.
>But the average cyclist is probably doing 15mph at the most
That's the speed an averagely fit 12 year old boy. With a little coaching and determination on a good surface they can easily get that up to 20 mph for a few miles...
At 18 I was averaging 24 mph and could easily burst to 30+... It's why you'll find many cyclists don't use cycle lanes- they aren't designed for speeds over 12 mph.
but I like the idea of a recording of an idling Harley Davidson, edited to be deeper and slower than any real IC engine could manage - possibly getting towards the drums in the deep, of LOTR fame.
The reasoning is that any E-ridable user wont realise how much more ridiculous it makes them appear,.. and it will probably get them punched by a bikie.
How did no one think of this? However with people afraid of their own shadow and governments full of bullshit bring in pointless laws to restrict every facet we make in order to get backhanders from companies that benefit from the rules these scooters are going to be stifled, leaving people using cars for short journeys
In 2020 & 2021 there's been a young lass who's been riding a scooter past my house on a semi-regular basis.
I know when she's passing by when there's this beep-beep-beep as she goes past.
It's actually a nice, clear & plain to alert someone near by that she's there.
She probably doesn't realise what good she's doing but one to push forward as the way to go,.,,
Whatever sound is selected, it needs to have a night-time volume & pitch reduction. Same as your phone switches down brightness and colour-temperature for the different context.
Otherwise, that reasonably-audible high pitched beep (or whatever) will be teeth-grindingly loud, and piercing/carrying, in the relative quiet of the evening and night. They would turn into a plague for everyone with ears within 100m of their entire path, as opposed to only the people physically & proximally in one moment of their path as at present.
"...as anyone who has suddenly had to dive off the path during a parkland walk will tell you"
These things are absolutely everywhere round where I live, but I have never - EVER - seen anybody need to dive off a path to get out of the way; or anything remotely close. They're no more or less dangerous or a nuisance than cyclists, and there's zero reason to keep them illegal other than padding the state's coffers.
Yes, because YOU have never seen it. I have had to jump aside on a sidewalk because a pack of them approached at speed from behind me, and had I not started stopping before the ends of buildings I'd have been run down more than once. These jokers don't even stop to cross roads, they just barrel out into traffic in packs. I've seen at least one of them hauled off in an ambulance for doing that as well.
For me, this is the silver lining of COVID - I don't have to go downtown anymore, and that's about the only place I see scooters.
The Register 
Biting the hand that feeds IT
Copyright. All rights reserved © 1998–2025
