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In the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack—or rather mass execution—the typical reaction seems to be that the killers were “madmen” and “extremists.” The brother of the slain policeman, himself Muslim, protested: “My brother was Muslim. He was shot down by false Muslims. (…) Islam is really a religion of peace, of love. We had nothing to do with that.”
Yes, only a few Muslims took part. But France has witnessed other acts of violence, largely ignored by the media, which have maimed and killed far more people. In most cases, those perpetrators have likewise been young men of Muslim background, although their actions have been driven not by religious fanaticism but by the enjoyment of being with other “youths” and proving their manhood through thefts, assaults, and home invasions.
The facts speak for themselves. In France, Muslims make up 60% of all prison inmates, while being only 12% of the total population (Leclerc, 2014). Similarly, 7 out of 10 burglaries, assaults, and violent thefts are committed by first- or second-generation immigrants (Chevrier and Raufer, 2014). Most of these perps seem to be Muslim, although a third of them may be West Indians, Africans, and Roma of nominally Christian background. Muslims seem to be especially overrepresented in serious violent crimes that lead to prison sentences.
Similar trends are developing elsewhere. Muslims make up 70% all prison inmates in Spain and 45% in Belgium (WikiIslam, 2013 see Note 1; Sudinfo.be, 2013). In England and Wales, the figure is only 14%, versus 4.7% of the total population, apparently because certain other communities are likewise overrepresented (Morris, 2014, see Note 2).
A Danish researcher has studied the relationship between criminality and immigrant origin in Denmark, Norway, and Finland (Kirkegaard, 2014a; Kirkegaard, 2014b; Kirkegaard, 2014c; Kirkegaard and Fuerst, 2014). He found that the prevalence of Islam in the immigrants’ home country was the single best predictor of criminality both for “all crime” and for “violent crime,” being better than the home country’s mean IQ or GDP per capita and much better than its murder rate.
There are interesting exceptions. Crime rates are very low among East and Southeast Asians, even those from largely Muslim Indonesia:
What causes the low Asian crime rate? Of the bottom 5 countries of origin for crime rates, 4 of them are Asian. It must be a strong force. Consider Indonesia with a crime rate of 1.19. It has an IQ of 85.8 (similar to Algeria, crime rate 5.16), a GDP of 4923.00$ (similar to Morocco, crime rate 5.7), and an Islam% of 88.1% (similar to Egypt, crime rate 5.57) and still immigrants from Indonesia have about half the crime rate of Danish citizens (2.45). Whatever cause it is, it is counteracting these other forces and overpowering them. (Kirkegaard, 2014b)
The effect of Islam: direct or indirect?
There are two ways of explaining why Muslim immigrants are more crime-prone. One is that Islam heightens the sense of difference between the in-group (fellow Muslims) and the out-group (the host society). Non-Muslims are outsiders and thus legitimate targets for acts that would be considered wrong if done against Muslims. This may explain why violent crime by Muslim immigrants correlates so weakly with the murder rate in their home countries. Murder is more serious when committed against a fellow Muslim.
The second explanation posits a less direct relationship with Islam. Most Muslim immigrants come from societies where the State has pacified social relations only in recent times and where men still see violence as a legitimate and even necessary means to advance personal interests, to defend themselves and their families, and to acquire land, goods, and even women. Violence is constrained not by the State but by a balance of terror—the threat of retaliation by the victim or his kinsmen.
Male combativeness is especially strong in highland pastoral societies beyond the reach of State control. It’s not for nothing that they have provided some of the best fighting men, like the Gurkhas in the British army, the Moroccans in the French army, and the Albanians in the Ottoman imperial army, their main drawback being a tendency to treat enemy civilians like enemy combatants. This was particularly so with the Moroccans during the Italian campaign: “Anyone who finds himself in their path is attacked by force of arms […] They seize everything […] and if in the group there are women, their clothing is taken off violently in cases of resistance. If, for example, they overrun some farms that are still inhabited, they go on a real rampage, following which, with firearms in their hands, they chase the men from the homes and rape the women without any respect for either the young or the elderly” (Tommaso, 2007)
If highland pastoral societies represent one end of this behavioral continuum, the other end seems to be the low-lying farming societies of east and southeast Asia, where State formation, rice farming, and sedentary life favored collectivism over individualism and a general pacification of social relations. Rice farming seems to have been a pivotal factor: water use and maintenance of irrigation networks requires peaceful and orderly cooperation among all community members. Even when neighboring districts are compared in China, individualism seems to be much weaker where rice is grown than where wheat is grown (Talhelm et al., 2014).
Kirkegaard and Fuerst (2014) consider this indirect causation but reject it because Islam still predicts criminality even among immigrants solely from Europe. Non-Muslim Europeans are much less crime-prone than Muslim Europeans. The latter, however, are largely Albanians and Bosniaks, who were subject peoples of the Ottoman Empire until the late 19th and early 20th century. Their cultural evolution was bound up with that of a Muslim state whose “government was unable to assure the basic conditions of civil peace in its lands. Not only were the local governors unrestrained, but bandits, groups of soldiers, and local warlords with armed retainers made life impossible for the peasant population, Christian and Muslim alike, in many areas” (Jelavich and Jelavich, 1977, pp. 326-327).
This seems to have been a general problem of Muslim states. Why have they been less able to pacify social relations? One reason is ideological. There has long been a tendency in Islam to romanticize the free-spirited Arab who answers to no one but himself. Advanced urban societies have indeed existed in the Muslim world, but they have been perceived as being less authentically Muslim, a perception facilitated by the presence of large Christian and Jewish minorities. Moreover, like the earlier Roman Empire, urban Muslim societies came to depend on barbarian soldiers who eventually realized they could do more than just serve under someone else’s command. This was notably the case with the Turkish mamluks in Egypt, the Banu Hilal in North Africa, and the Almoravids in Muslim Spain.
As a result, Islamic civilization has gone through cycles of de-barbarization and re-barbarization. These cycles were described by the Muslim historian Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406) in his work The Muqaddimah. In a chapter titled “While a nation is savage, its royal authority extends farther” he wrote:
[…] such a nation is better able to achieve superiority and full control, and to subdue other groups. The members of such a nation have the strength to fight other nations, and they are among human beings what beasts of prey are among dumb animals. The Arabs and the Zanatah and similar groups, for instance, are such nations, as are the Kurds, the Turkomans, and the Veiled Sinhajah.
In another chapter, “Places that succumb to the Arabs are quickly ruined,” he explained the incompatibility between the two mindsets:
The reason for this is that (the Arabs) are a savage nation, fully accustomed to savagery and the things that cause it. Savagery has become their character and nature. They enjoy it, because it means freedom from authority and no subservience to leadership. Such a natural disposition is the negation and antithesis of civilization.
[…] Furthermore, it is their nature to plunder whatever other people possess. Their sustenance lies wherever the shadow of their lances falls. They recognize no limit in taking the possessions of other people. Whenever their eyes fall upon some property, furnishings, or utensils, they take it.
[…] Under the rule of (the Arabs), the subjects live as in a state of anarchy, without law. Anarchy destroys mankind and ruins civilization, since, as we have stated, the existence of royal authority is a natural quality of man. It alone guarantees their existence and social organization.
[…] Furthermore, (every Arab) is eager to be the leader. Scarcely a one of them would cede his power to another, even to his father, his brother, or the eldest (most important) member of his family. That happens only in rare cases and under pressure of considerations of decency. There are numerous authorities and amirs among them. The subjects have to obey many masters in connection with the control of taxation and law. Civilization, thus, decays and is wiped out. (Khaldun, 1337)
Conclusion
Genes have co-evolved with culture along a trajectory that begins with clan societies, where every man can and does use violence to advance his interests, and ends with State societies, where the State monopolizes the legitimate use of violence, except for narrowly defined cases of self-defense. Western societies are among the ones that have moved very far along this trajectory. At a terrible price—high rates of capital punishment, stigmatization and social exclusion of violent males—we have won the right to live in a social environment where nonviolence is the norm and where violence usually occurs under exceptional conditions, like jealousy, intoxication, and extreme stress.
Today, in this same social environment, Muslims are overrepresented among violent criminals. This is because their societies of origin have done less to pacify social relations and have thus maintained patterns of male behavior that are no longer common elsewhere. This we know. But what about the heritable components of such behavior? Have certain innate tendencies been favored? And do these tendencies explain the persistence of certain behavioral patterns when people leave these societies and move to Western Europe? One can reply that cultural conservatism is a sufficient explanation. Keep in mind, though, that most of the above-mentioned criminals are young, European-born, and fans of American rap and hip hop. So their cultural conservatism must be selective …
Anyway, neither culture nor genetics gets much air time in commentary on the latest events. The general opinion seems to be that radical Islam is responsible. One reason is that the role of Muslims in violent crime is acknowledged only in high-profile cases that involve radical Islamists. Almost all other cases involve “youths.”
A second reason is that Europeans have a long history of viewing human conflicts in ideological terms, from the Crusades to the Cold War. To be sure, even those conflicts had other motives, and the developing one in Western Europe seems to be a classic struggle over territory, with one side gradually displacing the other. The real ideological conflict is between those who see what is happening and those who don’t.
Finally, people focus on radical Islam to explain the degradation of their social environment because discussion of cultural and genetic causes is taboo. They are afraid of seeming “racist”—a word that began as a synonym for “Nazi” and that still evokes memories of the last world war. Although they may be unhappy with Third World immigration, which will soon make them strangers in their own lands, they prefer to oppose it on ideological grounds, i.e., the threat of radical Islam. They may not actually believe this analysis of the situation, but it’s the only one that has some legitimacy and that might bring immigration to a halt.
It probably won’t. Flawed analysis usually leads to a flawed response. Instead of an end to immigration, or at least Muslim immigration, there will likely be efforts to get to “the root of the problem” through military interventions in the Middle East, as if the problem were there and not in Paris, London, and Oslo. And since Muslim criminality will go on as before, there will be calls for even tougher action: “Nuke Mecca!” Yes, people can be that stupid, especially when they cannot freely discuss what is happening and why.
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1. The 70% figure comes from a press release, issued in 2008:
Muslims serving jail sentences in Spanish jails will now be allowed to say their prayers in congregation, provided at least ten of them expressed their wish to do so. The aim of the new ruling is to bring about equality of treatment between Muslim prisoners and Catholic interns in their religious rights.
The largest Islamic organization in the country, the Islamic Committee of Spain, has welcomed this initiative, taking into account that 70 percent of those in Spanish jails are Muslims, who number around 54,000.
Is this figure plausible? Last year, the Secretaría General de Instituciones Penitenciarias provided a breakdown of the total prison population by nationality. Out of a total prison population of 66,857, there were 21,116 foreign nationals (32% of the total). Moroccans were the largest group with 5,773 inmates (9% of the total). The article (in Spanish) provides no information on foreign nationals from other predominantly Muslim countries, notably Algeria, Tunisia, Senegal, Gambia, and Guinea.
http://www.abc.es/espana/20140823/abci-perfil-presos-espana-201408211339.html
It is worth noting that these figures are only for foreign nationals. As the comments following the above article note, when an immigrant receives Spanish citizenship he disappears from the statistics. Citizenship is easier to acquire in Spain than in other Western European countries, being automatic for Spanish-born children of immigrants. The North African community in particular, which began to arrive in the 1980s, now seems to be made up largely of Spanish citizens, particularly in the younger age categories that are most susceptible to violent crime:
The demographic profile of the North African migrant communities has become increasingly complex over time due to the slow but constant process of family reunification. This is shown by the gradual feminization of these communities […] The development of a “second generation”, today at different stages of the Spanish education system, constitutes a very important issue in itself, and presents a totally different profile from that of primary migrants. (Fuentes, 2005)
I would conservatively estimate that Muslim foreign nationals account for 15-20% of the prison population in Spain (i.e., immigrants from North Africa, West Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia). If we add 1st and 2nd generation immigrants who have acquired Spanish nationality, the total figure must be at least twice as much, i.e., 30-40%.
2. In 2013, blacks were 13.2% of all prison inmates in England and Wales, versus 2.8% of the general population (Berman and Dar, 2013). In 2012-2013, Roma were 5% of all prison inmates, versus 0.1% of the general population (Press Association, 2014). Another possible factor is that British Muslims are mostly South Asians, who themselves form a very heterogeneous population that may have followed diverse trajectories of cultural evolution. Bangladeshis may have a very different behavioral profile from that of Pathans.
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References
Berman, G. and A. Dar. (2013). Prison Population Statistics, briefing paper, Ministry of Justice, London. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.uk%2Fbriefing-papers%2Fsn04334.pdf&ei=B_-2VNqjF-zasASMgYHgDg&usg=AFQjCNFc5woMqfEk6pJKE2rqLrXlLM5oYg
Chevrier, G. and X. Raufer. (2014). Aucun lien entre immigration et délinquance ? Une France peu généreuse avec ses immigrés ? Radiographie de quelques clichés “bien pensants” à la peau dure, Atlantico, November 26 http://www.atlantico.fr/decryptage/aucun-lien-entre-immigration-et-delinquance-france-peu-genereuse-avec-immigres-radiographie-quelques-cliches-bien-pensants-peau-1875772.html
Fuentes, F.J.M. (2005). Evolution of Spanish immigration policies and their impact on North African immigration to Spain, HAGAR – Studies in Culture, Polity and Identities, 6, 119-145. https://www.academia.edu/3455958/Evolution_of_Spanish_immigration_policies_and_their_impact_on_North-African_migration_to_Spain
Jelavich, C. and B. Jelavich. (1977). The Establishment of the Balkan National States, 1804-1920, University of Washington Press.
Khaldun, I. (1377 [1958]).The Muqaddimah, Abd Ar Rahman bin Muhammed ibn Khaldun, Translated by F. Rosenthal, New York: Pantheon Books. http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/
Kirkegaard, E.O.W. (2014a). Crime, income, educational attainment and employment among immigrant groups in Norway and Finland, Open Differential Psychology, October 9. http://openpsych.net/ODP/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Kirkegaard2014CrimeIncomeAndEmploymentAmongImmigrantGroupsInNorwayAndFinland.pdf
Kirkegaard, E.O.W. (2014b). Criminality and fertility among Danish immigrant populations. Open Differential Psychology, March 14. http://openpsych.net/ODP/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/criminality_fertility.pdf
Kirkegaard, E.O.W. (2014c). Criminality among Norwegian immigrant populations. Open Differential Psychology, April 4. http://openpsych.net/ODP/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/criminality_norway-final.pdf
Kirgegaard, E.O.W. and J. Fuerst. (2014). Educational attainment, income, use of social benefits, crime rate and the general socioeconomic factor among 71 immigrant groups in Denmark, Open Differential Psychology, May 12 http://openpsych.net/ODP/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/educationalattainmentetcDenmarkFinal.pdf
Leclerc, J-M. (2014). Un rapport explosif sur l’islam radical dans les prisons françaises, Le Figaro, October 22 http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2014/10/22/01016-20141022ARTFIG00314-un-rapport-explosif-sur-l-islam-radical-dans-les-prisons-francaises.php
Morris, N. (2014). Number of Muslims in prison doubles in decade to 12,000, The Independent, March 28 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/number-of-muslims-in-prison-doubles-in-decade-to-12000-9222237.html
Press Association. (2014). One in 20 prisoners of Gypsy, Romany or Traveller background, says HMIP, The Guardian, March 11 http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/11/gypsies-roma-travellers-over-represented-jails-england-wales-prisons
Sudinfo.be (2013). 45% des détenus des prisons belges sont de confession musulmane, Sudinfo.be, May 23 http://www.sudinfo.be/726092/article/actualite/belgique/2013-05-17/45-des-detenus-des-prisons-belges-sont-de-confession-musulmane
Talhelm, T., X. Zhang, S. Oishi, C. Shimin, D. Duan, X. Lan, and S. Kitayama. (2014). Large-scale psychological differences within China explained by rice versus wheat agriculture, Science, 344, 603-607. http://internationalpsychoanalysis.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/RiceversusWheatScience-2014-Talhelm-603-8.pdf
Tommaso, B. (2007). Le corps expéditionnaire français en Italie, Vingtième Siècle. Revue d’histoire 1/ (no 93), 47-61 http://www.cairn.info/revue-vingtieme-siecle-revue-d-histoire-2007-1-page-47.htm
WikiIslam (2013). Muslim Statistics (Population) http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_%28Population%29#Spain
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Any data on the Hui ethnic group of China? The Hui are similar ethnically to the Han, except they are Muslim. They could be compared to the Han and to other Muslim groups like the Uighurs, who aren’t similar ethnically to the Han like the Hui are.
You’ve got some clutter in your embedded link URLs
“The facts speak for themselves. In France, Muslims make up 60% of all prison inmates, while being only 12% of the total population (Leclerc, 2014). Similarly, 7 out of 10 burglaries, assaults, and violent thefts are committed by first- or second-generation immigrants (Chevrier and Raufer, 2014). Most of these perps seem to be Muslim”
The so-called “religion of peace” in France makes up 60 percent of all prison inmates, despite making up only 12 percent of the general population.
Don’t be surprised if 25 years from now, “the religion of peace” make up 90 percent of all prison inmates in France.
“There are interesting exceptions. Crime rates are very low among East and Southeast Asians, even those from largely Muslim Indonesia:”
Despite Indonesia being a predominantly Muslim country, I know 2 Infidel White guys who ended marrying Indonesian women and they did not have to convert to Islam at all.
I wonder if a lot of Indonesians are Muslim In Name Only, similar to how many Irish American Northeast Liberals in states like New York and Massachusetts are Catholic In Name Only.
One quibble: homicide rates in Southeast Asia are similar to those in the Middle East (with Indonesia being an exception). See:
Guns & Violence, Again… | JayMan’s Blog
Readers be sure to see also:
The Atheist Narrative | JayMan’s Blog
Yup, violent behavior is very much is heritable, like everything else (I’ll have even more on this soon):
More Behavioral Genetic Facts | JayMan’s Blog
Frost, you ask us to not inject Jews into every discussion, but sometimes you practically ask for it.
Sailer has demonstrated the reigning Neocon policy to be essentially Invade the World, Invite the World. They want us to both nuke Mecca and import Muslims. Nuking Mecca is Good for the Jews in Israel, and European-replacement is Good for the Jews in the diaspora.
I don’t have to tell you that the Neocons are dominantly hostile Eastern European Jewish. That’s why we’re picking a fight with Russia, and that’s why we bombed Serbia and sided with savage Muslims in the Balkans.
In my opinion, the problem is that Islamic countries have a high percentage of Y-DNA gene lines that are unusually aggressive and which have never have gone through a weeding-out process like the West. We owe our less aggressive tendencies to guys like Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, and Kaiser Wilhelm. In about a 150 year period, that quartet killed off most of our aggressive Y-DNA strains and left the remainder of us a lot more civilized. Despite Syria and the Iran-Iraq war, the Middle East has never had a punch-up anything close to the scale that the West has produced.
In Asia, China is rather placid today because Mao killed off anyone who showed even a hint of opposition to his rule, and Japan is quiet because most of the aggressive males in that society died in World War II.
I would explain the violence of North African Muslims by one additional factor: selection within North Africa after the Arab conquest for poor, violent people to convert to Islam, and wealthy less violent ones to remain as Christian or Jewish, because they could afford the tax on non-Muslims.
Then, centuries later, at Algeria’s independence, two populations moved to France. Almost all the Algerian Jews (~130k people) migrated to France and have done fine and are not violent. But the Algerian Muslims who went to France have ended up poor and relatively violent.
Both populations had lived in the same unpacified Ibn Khaldun polity in North Africa. So, I conclude, there must have been some other form of selection at work. The Islamic tax selected for relative poverty and the things that go along with that like being violence-prone, less intelligence, less foresight. That’s a further reason, in addition to those stated in the OP that a connection between Islam and violence now exists.
Anon,
Yes, the Hui would be an interesting case. Any useful data would have to come from China itself.
Dain,
Thanks! The problem has been resolved.
“Don’t be surprised if 25 years from now, “the religion of peace” make up 90 percent of all prison inmates in France.”
I would be surprised. By then, immigration will be overwhelmingly from sub-Saharan Africa, which is about 1/3 Muslim and 2/3 Christian and animist.
Jefferson,
The case of Indonesia shows that Islam doesn’t explain everything. I think we attribute to “Muslim culture” things that are really Middle Eastern and often pre-Islamic.
Jayman,
Interesting. Any ideas why the homicide rate is lower in Indonesia than in the Philippines and Thailand? I suspect the cause may be an interaction between American culture (especially its glorification of male violence) and a native culture that is less resistant to Americanization.
Anon,
I recognize that Jewish people have agency, as individuals and as organizations. My problem is with Jew obsession, i.e., the notion that everything and anything that goes wrong is due to Jewish malfeasance. It’s not so, and it discredits anything else you might say. So knock it off. Please.
Most neocons are former Trotskyites who were considered reckless adventurists by the rest of the political left. They eventually disowned the left because they felt it was becoming anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic. That wasn’t true, and American conservatives made a big mistake by welcoming them with open arms. The enemy of your enemy isn’t necessarily a friend. He can be an even worse enemy.
Both the Philippines and Thailand have Muslim jihadist movements.
The Crown Prosecution Service and the Police in England are fanatically PC. That’s why they let Moslems gang-rape their way through every orphanage in the land. Very few will every go to jail. If they all did go to jail, the Moslem jail population would soar.
Hello, Dr. Frost.
I am a reader from Iran, and I have been doing personal research for many months on the rise of the white race, i.e. the Europeans. They are truly a demonic and powerful race. They are not violent according to the theories being discussed herein and yet they at one point held 75% of the world’s inhabited lands under their imperial control. They have also wiped out much more violent strains of mankind.
As such is the matter of things, I desire to acquire the power of the white European demons. I’m prepared to go to all lengths, such as murder and self-mortification to acquire it.
Please contact me.
And one more thing sir, if Europeans gained their exceptional IQ, creativity, power, great height (many European men are taller than six feet), great limb proportions, light skin, straight fair hair, and angular features by living in the Northern lands above the 42nd parallel of northern eurasia and hunting mammoths and undergoing selection for these features, how long will it take another south eurasian originating inferior basal eurasian population to experience these same pressures and be able to overtake the great white race?
Ring bells. They hate bells or better yet use US Grant tactics and tear out the bells and mount Howitzers in the bell towers and ring hells bells down on them. That’s what is called a siege tower.
“Anti-Racist” Terrorism Caught on Video
Video Link
PS: It’s not Muslims who play the Knockout Game.
It’s was Muslims whose stores got looted in Ferguson.
It’s not Muslims who ethnically cleansed the Palestinians.
Croatians and Serbs killed plenty of Muslims in Bosnia.
US starved Iraq in the 90s, killing innumerable women and children.
US and Israel did all they can to undermine Libya and Syria.
Jews in Israel seemed to celebrate the massacre in Gaza.
Muslims may be violent but are Christians better for turning the other cheek to Jews and homos?
“European-replacement is Good for the Jews in the diaspora”
It’s really not. Jewish insistence on uncontrolled mass immigration seems to be a weird displacement thing where excluding Muslim migrants in 2014 somehow equates to excluding Jewish refugees in 1938.
“I am a reader from Iran, and I have been doing personal research for many months on the rise of the white race, i.e. the Europeans”
Iranians are whiter than many Europeans. You could just study how your Persian ancestors carved out what was once the greatest empire in the world.
“we have won the right to live in a social environment where nonviolence is the norm and where violence usually occurs under exceptional conditions, like jealousy, intoxication, and extreme stress”
I wonder how Dr Frost’s theories of genetics would explain the European culture’s preponderance of traits such as hypocrisy, dissembling, deviousness, impunity, double-dealing, ethical cowardice, and most particularly (in relation to this article) a philosophy of caveat emptor.
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/01/16/opus-dei-christian-dominion/
^ Or perhaps Dr Frost doesn’t know how to measure his own culture’s tendencies to violence if only because they can be ‘forgiven’ … honestly, I see little difference between his science and Christian religion. Neither appears capable to grasp and take responsibility for what inevitably remains behaviors swept under the rug
Professor Frost:
In England and Wales, South Asians and whites have identical arrest rates. Blacks have significantly higher arrest rates. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/statistics-on-race-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2012
South Asians were also underrepresented (in comparison to whites) in the British riots that occurred several years ago, but blacks and Middle Easterners are exceptionally overrepresented. http://isteve.blogspot.com/2011/10/riots-in-england.html
South Asians have lower rates of chlamydia infection than the white British, but blacks have higher rates.
South Asians are also are tremendously underrepresented in the national sport of soccer, while blacks are tremendously overrepresented.
You make it sound as if white people have made a independent, rational decision that whites are pre-disposed to racism and so they have to bend over backwards to avoid being racist.
But the fact is that our educational curriculum, our popular culture has a dominant theme of “whites are evil racists and must do everything they can to atone for their evil racist past.”
But ordinary white people did not put that dominant theme of “whites are evil racists and must do everything they can to atone for their evil racist past” there.
We did not create that dominant theme.
It was crammed down our throats.
Why and how did that dominant theme arise and become dominant?
Does the perspective of that dominant theme truly reflect history?
Is it slanted?
Why and how did that dominant them arise and come to domination?
Cui bono? Who and what benefits from that dominant theme?
Oh, I am sure I will get responders saying “It’s them evil democrats! They want more liberal voters!”
That is laughable.
Big Money created that dominant theme and moved it to the top.
But why? And how?
See Dr Roelofs’ book FOUNDATIONS AND SOCIAL POLICY: THE MASK OF PLURALISM.
Also, there is an interesting review of the book THE CULTURAL COLD WAR somewhere online by a fellow named Petra, or perhaps Wolf, as I recall.
From those two sources you can see that the fakeLeftism that is american liberalism/multiculturalism is merely a product of the large amounts of money poured into nonprofit foundations starting after World War 2. Those funds were designed to create a new form of leftism, one oriented around social issues, designed to boost the social status of females and nonwhites, one designed to divert leftism from economic issues into social issues.
And, not coincidentally, that choice also helps the corporations expand the supply of workers and consumers. Multiculturalism, combined with mass immigration, increases GDP and profits.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 🙂 .
I’m dying of convulsive laughter…. that was a jewel, seriously…
Here’s my analysis of how the “white European demons” got their power:
#1. Moral relativism. (Read the Declaration of Independence and ask, what did the so-called “Founding Fathers” of the so-called “United States” mean by “men”?)
#2. Ethnocentrism/Tribalism. (Wonder why Americans intervened when Japan was kicking British/French/Dutch bottoms in SE Asia? Or why Australians invaded East Timor? Or why Germans form Patriotic “Europeans”…? Or why that repulsive and plain creepy Cossack immigrant Lana Lokteff rails against the “reconquista”?)
#3. Territorialism. (Yup. White Man’s territory is White Man’s territory. Darkie’s territory is White Man’s territory. And oh, by “territory” I mean women, land, immovable property, indeed, everything)
#4. Self-deception. (White Man’s unrivaled capacity to deceive himself and consequently, deceive others. So when he kidnaps, rapes and breeds your women, he self-allegedly liberates them; when he kills you, he self-allegedly civilizes you; when he robs and enslaves you, he self-allegedly brings modern technology and education to you. A lot of darkies fall for this lie)
It is time to shift the paradigm from individual crimes to the crimes committed by the countries .
America will come on top for every 11 months ,they have waged wars and all are illegals including the one against Afghanistan
Britain come second invading every country on earth except 7
France ,and Russia will follow close 3rd and 4th,
China ? is it a crime to depopulate Xinxiang of native, bar the dress codes,denounce/denigrate the culture and send the Hun Chinese to bring communist and crony capitalism values ? Is their some in group or out group psychology operating here at national level? Aren’t the secular ,capitalists ,and the meritocrats supposed to abandon ethnic and religion based discrimination ?
Do these countries go to any prison and constitute the major percentage of the inmates? No. They own it and manage it with veto power and they make 100 % -:UN.
Belgium and Germany and Spain have mortgaged their criminal part of the brain to the services of US and UK .
And IQ!!! Be proud of it
What happens to other criminals?
Those who adorn the statistics here -http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html?utm_source=digg&utm_medium=email
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05#terror_05sum
Muslim have low IQ for low IQ end up being ignored,picked up,and incarcerated and duped easily . Justice department in US has the discretion to investigate,charge , bring a case,or indict . They have done it very well since the department was created . Galbraith knew it well in 1960 over AIPAC and Rosen -Franklin know it well . Netanyahu is still allowed to come and lecture US Gov despite being found in violation of US laws in sending nuclear material to Israel.
Only CIA pimps say this rubbish. It is obvious that this site is in the service of the CIA to keep the population of fools on board. We have so many dumb people in the west as a result of phony ‘freedom of speech” and “democratic” governments. All are terrorists and for the past few centuries have done nothing but killing other people and civilizations to rob them and take over their markets. Apparently, this sites are run by the ‘businessmen’, and beneficial to CIA pimps. It is time for YOU to go into musium for ever. Fuck off from our region now. When YOU the aggressors are placed in the musium, like YOU did with other civilizations, then the world will experience peace. Down with the criminal west and its CIA pimps.
“great height (many European men are taller than six feet), great limb proportions, light skin, straight fair hair, and angular features”
Europeans are the best looking humans on the planet. Everyone else has the same old monochrome coloration, black hair and brown eyes. Very boring.
Chinese-Americans and Japanese-Americans who came to the US long before World War II and Mao have always had very low crime rates.
When whites go to jail in Mozambique, it is tyranny .When Muslim or black go to prison ,it is low IQ and criminality . When some Americans end up in jail in Cuba,Iran,or Saddam’s Iraq, it is persecution,and torture of some white youths who were hiking or providing medical help . When a Muslim gets frisked at airport and sent to rendition or Guantanamo , it is justice or fight against terror.
Diversity is good, ain’t it? 🙂
Whom are you praying to?
They’ll just turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the facts that don’t help their agenda.
Red peoples’ lives for White interests.
Yellow peoples’ lives for White interests.
Brown peoples’ lives for White interests.
Black peoples’ lives for White interests.
White peoples’ lives free from racial politics?
Anti-PC is a code word for anti-Colored!
So let me understand this-those middle eastern or N Africans who never wanted their countries be decimated to Stone Age and never wanted to be liberated by western pimps like Bernard Levy or Hillary or Sarkozy or Power-Rice duo ,end up destitute and refugees in Europe and then in prison for petty crimes to survive ,but can’t ask for compensation,reparations,and convictions of the criminals while Rabbi lectures America to take the frightened Jews, open the door for the French Jews to who America don’t owe any moral obligations while it does to those Iraqis,Syrians,and Libyans for it destroyed those countries.
We really live in psychopathic high IQ world !
Ref- http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/13/the-u-s-should-open-its-doors-to-european-jews/
Please answer my questions, sirs. For anyone who has some information about how to acquire the power of the whites, contact me at this skype account: Kamran Maharramov.
Pakistanis aren’t particularly violent (man to man) until they become a significant majority in a particular area at which point it changes dramatically – which has only started to happen in the last 20 years or so. In contrast Somalis and Afghanis and it seems North Africans are naturally much more aggressive so I think it’s more of a spectrum.
The other factor is visible crime rate. The less violent Muslim groups are very over represented in white collar crime that is both detected less and doesn’t lead to prison as often.
So I think it’s a combination of two factors: Islam magnifying us-and-them-ness which increases crime but the type of crime varies independently with frequency of violent traits so Islam + non-violent traits = non-violent crime, Islam + violent traits = violent crime with the frequency of violent traits being a function of settled vs non-settled populations.
(What is the fraud/corruption rate like in Indonesia?)
You’re missing the point. Societies with a lot of street-level violence aren’t organised enough to commit high-level violence. So the question this post relates to is where does street level violence come from?
1) Reduce street-level violence by selecting it out of the gene pool.
2) Reduce fraud/corruption by reducing us-and-them-ness.
How did the convict gene pool selected by due process and then abandoned in the deserts of Australia produce phenotypes that turned out so many great politicians,cricketers,soccer players,writers,actors,and businesses sons and wonderful scientific and engineering institutes?
The only convict descent with the same gene pool is Rupert Murdoch.
Is it the heat of Australia? Or Was it from selective silencing of the aboriginal gene but the beneficiary was white ?
This is less an issue about religion, but mass immigration. When the numbers are large and jobs are scarce, poor immigrants become restive. And since they are in large numbers and concentrated in certain areas, they need not go through the difficult process of assimilation, hence the beards, veils, and ragheads. I realized the issue in France was unstable last year when an armed soldier on patrol near Paris was attacked.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/25/us-france-stabbing-idUSBRE94O09420130525
The fact they had armed soldiers on patrol is a clue. I agree with Pat Buchanan that neocons are wrongly celebrating this as a victory for Israel and the USA. He notes this has strengthened nationalist political parties that are not pro-NATO nor supporters of the American empire.
@KA
England took the process to extremes.
Docile -> Bold -> Criminal
England hanged the violently criminal and transported the Bold.
Bold is good.
“Andrew Mitchell, Britain’s minister for international development, has said that migrants fleeing violence in Libya are in a “desperate position” and demanded that Libya allow world powers “unfettered access” to help them.”
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201135165632260669.html
Attention deficit disorder mixed with moral deficiency give rise to certain kind of world view at the top that trickles down then to the street thugs,racist,and columnists . They do their parts and add different dimensions to the debates. The debates then center on security, protection of culture,IQ,criminal
behaviors,and military interventions .but the ” first cause” is never addressed or corrected .
Peter – I wonder- Would it have been better for Western Civilization if the Nazis had won?
Well it’s a long way to Richmond Rollin’ north on 95 With a redhead ridin’ shotgun And a pistol …The return of Bonnie & Clyde Update
Kentucky ‘Bonnie and Clyde’ teen couple captured in Florida
New York Daily News – 1 hour ago
Their 14 days on the lam are over and now two teenagers, ages 18 and 13, who have left a trail of stolen vehicles and bad checks from Kentucky to Florida now say they just want to go home.
Muslim criminality in the United States hasn’t followed the European pattern. As best I can tell, government statistics leave much to be desired, Middle Eastern and South Asian Muslims (as opposed to black prison converts) do not have particularly high crime rates. If anything, they are likely overrepresented as crime _victims_ due to their concentration in high risk occupations such as inner city shopkeeper, gas station attendant, and taxi driver.
The problem with Muslims is that their religion sanctions violence and predation against unbelievers. This is why they take to criminal activity in the West like a duck takes to water. It’s not out of want since they are given free housing, food and medical. It’s a veritable paradise here compared to their native cess pits.
We are simply prey to them.
It will only get worse as their numbers increase and their political power grows. Eventually Shariah will be the law of the land in Europe say in 20 years or so. When that happens yes crime will go since it will be okay for Muslims to prey on unbelievers like academics, feminists, gays, white Marxist trash, boozers, atheists, etc. Basically all the folks now excusing Islamic predation in the West.
One only has to examine what happened when Khomeni took over Iran and the Shia Iraq under the American occupation. A veritable bloodbath of unbelievers and secularists followed by tyranny.
Street level violence is a bad thing.
Countries that reduced their street level violence in the past are more capable of high level violence.
If countries like that allow themselves to be ruled by banksters and neocons then their capacity for high level violence becomes a bad thing.
Fair answer. Perhaps since you don’t discuss Jews much, unfamiliar readers will think you either don’t know, or don’t want to discuss for suspicious reasons, the “anti-racist Hitlers” of the world like Barbara Spectre. When you do discuss the Jewish role in promoting “antiracism”, it’s evident that you are knowledgeable on the topic and aren’t hiding anything.
Perhaps a short disclaimer of sorts, or a single article/comments section dedicated solely to Jews, would solve your problem.
And I also don’t think the Jew-obsessed approach is effective nor entirely accurate. Enemies can’t create your weaknesses, only exploit them. IMO, the “white genocide” guys have the best short-sword strategy.
Whether getting rid of Europeans is GFTJ or not isn’t the issue, it’s that organized Jewry currently thinks it is and acts accordingly. Luke Ford is the best writer on the topic, or more accurately, the best information-gatherer. I’ve seen him compared to Matt Drudge, and I think that’s accurate.
Note: My comment was “marked as spam” when I tried to edit it. So I’m re-submitting.
Fair answer. Perhaps since you don’t discuss Jews much, unfamiliar readers will think you either don’t know, or don’t want to discuss for suspicious reasons, the “anti-racist Hitlers” of the world like Barbara Spectre. When you do discuss the Jewish role in promoting “antiracism”, it’s evident that you are knowledgeable on the topic and aren’t hiding anything. Perhaps a short disclaimer of sorts, or a single article/comments section dedicated solely to Jews, would solve your problem.
And I also don’t think the Jew-obsessed approach is effective nor entirely accurate. Enemies can’t create your weaknesses, only exploit them. IMO, the “white genocide” guys have the best short-sword strategy.
Whether getting rid of Europeans is GFTJ or not isn’t the issue, it’s that organized Jewry currently thinks it is and acts accordingly. Luke Ford is the best writer on the topic, or more accurately, the best information-gatherer. I’ve seen him compared to Matt Drudge, and I think that’s accurate.
“Big Money created that dominant theme and moved it to the top. ”
And who is this “Big Money”? Admit it, we all really know.
Friend, if you want the power of the white man, you need to watch a marathon of Martin Mull movies while eating canned vegetables in Jell-O and Cool-Whip. I wish there was some kind of shortcut, but there’s really no other way.
Also, very important: NO DANCING.
No they didnt.Australian was a colony of criminals . Churchill even went to declare that in 1940s as a reason not to worry about saving Australia from Japan,instead advocated saving Singapore .
Kevin MacDonald notes that Jews tend to excel at whatever activity has the greatest prestige in the country they live in. For example in England they were the foremost businessmen. “Jewish excellence in music and art has not been characteristic of Britain, while it has been characteristic of Germany . … ‘They beat the French at their own academic-cultural game every time.’”
I should not surprise anyone that in countries where pro-immigration sentiment has a massive amount of prestige among the elite, Jews are to the fore in arguing for more immigration. They’re playing the local game.
Until the liberal democracies of the West are willing to admit that, by continually testing radical social theories (open borders, anti-sexism, anti-racism, homosexual marriage, etc.) on unwilling peoples, they are de facto theocracies and anything but “free societies”, Islam will continue to make inroads in the West as the more viable alternative. Indeed, if I were a particularly Machiavellian imam, I would have my assassins running around the West spiking the drinks of realists with brain damaging substances to ensure that the West gets more and more Holocaustianity rammed down its throat until it BEGS for Islam to take over.
“Iranians are whiter than many Europeans.”
How so ? Even Southern European countries have a higher percentage of people with light hair and light eyes than Iran and Southern Europeans are considered “the least White Europeans”.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4581457/1/
In Iran only 8 percent of the population has light eyes. In Italy 30 percent of the population has light eyes.
See Paul Ewald’s work and horizontal vs. vertical transmission. Jews are historically among the most mobile groups.
You claimed that Muslims make up 70% of the Spanish prison population. Given that Muslims make up only 2.3% of the Spanish population, this seems implausible.
Your source (“WikiIslam”) links to a 2008 news story from the International Islamic News Agency (IINA). I don’t know where the IINA got its data, but there is reason to doubt the claim.
If the IINA is correct that there were 54,000 Spanish prisoners in 2008, and 70% of them were Muslims, that means that there were some 37,800 Spanish prisoners in 2008. Now, the Yearbook of Muslims in Europe states: “In Spanish prisons, as of 2011, there were some 7,758 Muslim prisoners” (613). (A similar number was given in a U.S. Congressional hearing in 2006. Sue Mahan writes that there are 5,782 prisoners from Morocco and Algeria combined in Spain, the countries from which no doubt most Spanish Muslims come.) If that number is right, that means that in 3 years, the Muslim prison population of Spain decreased by about 30,000, or about 80%. If that is true, then good for Spanish Muslims!
However, I suspect that the IINA simply got it wrong, and Dr. Frost and WikiIslam.net are simply uncritically repeating its claims. It is surprising (OK, it’s not really surprising) that none of the commenters have so far drawn attention to this. This glaring oversight calls into question the other claims in the post.
That must be why Jews became anti-Semitic, anti-immigration, right-wing, and excluded themselves from American universities and institutions. Because they were merely trying to mimic the WASP elite.
Oh wait, that’s exactly the opposite of what happened.
“The Myth of Old Money Liberalism: The Politics of the Forbes 400 Richest Americans”
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~vburris/oldmoney.pdf
Oouch! You ruined the party.
Yup!! The fear has never left the brave world of the media
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4615997,00.html
CNN’s Jim Clancy resigns after anti-Israel tweets
Anchor leaves Cable News Network after 34 years following controversial Twitter debate with pro-Israel activists over terror attack on Charlie Hebdo.
Ynet
Published: 01.17.15, 17:47 / Israel News)
and the tweets???? what was so disconcerting,earth shattering violence promoting ,freedom slaying quality about this tweet??
I’ve noticed a pattern. Some of the contributors to this website, such as Peter Frost and Razib Khan, tend to act in the following manner. They will publish a blogpost purporting to describe the unique evil of Muslims and Islam. Some commenters will point out that in some respects, the behavior and beliefs of (some) Jews is morally equivalent to or worse than the behavior and/or beliefs of (some) Muslims, or that the behavior of the State of Israel is morally equivalent to or worse than the behavior of Muslim states or terrorists. (The commenters tend not to put it so carefully). The blogger will then accuse the commenter of derailing the discussion and diagnose him/her with “Jew-obsession,” even though the topic of the post was the purportedly unique evil of Islam and Muslims, and therefore invites comparisons with other groups. (To be sure, many, if not most, of the commenters on these blogs are genuinely anti-Semitic and Jew-obssessed, and are in that respect a rarity in the post-1945 Western world). Meanwhile, the bloggers apparently accept any and all negative assertions about Muslims, however ridiculous and demonstrably false. It never occurs to them that they might be “Muslim-obsessed.”
@KA
There’s people who would always be criminals and there’s people who are criminals when they’re hungry. I don’t consider the second kind to be criminals in the sense being discussed here. England hanged the first kind and transported the second kind.
‘
@Ronald West
Hypocrisy is a concomitant of having a commonly agreed but not universally accepted public universalist morality.
.
@anon
They are theocracies with a hostile priesthood so obviously can’t survive.
.
@matt
I know it’s very high in France and I don’t know about Spain but arguing from official percentages is always bogus cos
1) The liberal elite always downplay the numbers
2) age distribution – criminals tend to peak at 16-24
3) illegal immigrants
Illegal immigrants in particular as they tend to be very disproportionately male and in the prime criminal age.
So the percentage of 16-24 year old males is likely much higher – although still a long way from 70%.
Although – again I don’t know about Spain – but the criminal justice system in NW Europe gradually became more and more non-custodial since the 1960s so the list of crimes that could get a person locked up shrank e.g. drugs and violence, so if muslim immigrants dominate heroin dealing for example then that could be another cause for disproportion.
70% does seems high.
edit: bit of googling
http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/spain
30% are foreign – my guess (based purely on other countries) illegal immigrant heroin dealers
@matt
You haven’t demonstrated they were false. You asserted that such a huge disproportion seemed unlikely – which is true.
However a quick bit of googling makes a minimum of 50% easily plausible – partly because of the sort of crimes that generate long custodial sentences.
Sorry I didn’t get it.
It also seems that England did not have hunger problem after the first batch of non hungry criminals got executed and other were sent to eat cactus and Oran o Tang in the desert Time frame includes those days when food were forcibly taken away from Bengal to supply the British causing multiple famines in India
People need acceptance .Some need to be validated by the popular zeitgeist . Human come in different shapes and sizes of mental wherewithal . Even a dead fish can swim with the flow of the current and reach the popular majoritian destination.
A White, Christian population that also practices as close to 1st cousin marriage as possible are the Irish Travelers.
I wonder how they stand in regards to:
us-and-them-ness
violence
crime
educational attainment
child mortality etc
There are Irish Traveller communities in the US. Some of the communities are quite old and quite prosperous. There’s a community called Murphy Village in Georgia that is full of wealthy Irish Travellers in gaudy McMansions. They tend to be very secretive, and they’re somewhat infamous for home repair and driveway paving scams. They will pave a customer’s driveway with a fake substance that wears off after a couple days but by that time they’ve been paid and have left town. I think the wealthier Traveller communities like Murphy Village may have made their fortunes with unscrupulous home repair and construction businesses if not with outright frauds and scams.
See here:
“Police warn North Carolina residents of Irish Traveller scam artists”
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Police-warm-South-Carolina-of-Irish-Traveller-scam-artists.html
There are lots of similar articles about Irish Traveller home repair and construction frauds and scams and shoddy business practices in Europe and the US if you Google around.
Here’s a TV special on the secretive Irish Traveller community of Murphy Village in the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK5UqnMW5hc
Video Link
@anonymous
Quite.
I think violent/criminal genes increase the drive to criminality and us-and-them-ness reduces the barrier to criminality so groups with a lot of us-and-them-ness are more likely to be criminal.
us-and-them-ness can come from multiple sources e.g. religion, close cousin marriage, ideology etc
That’s not the TV special I originally had in mind. I had in mind one called “Travellers in America: A Secret Society” that’s no longer on Youtube. Here’s an article on the TV special which describes how they’ve apparently become wealthy through some sort of insurance fraud or loophole and how they have some kind of arranged marriages:
“Irish Travellers are prospering in America and “make most of their money from life insurance” ”
http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-travellers-america-1039464-Aug2013/
I’d rather not impose comment moderation but it looks like I’ll have to (when Ron gives me the power to do so). A few points:
1. The number of Muslims in Spanish prisons
Some of you challenge the figure of 70%. To be honest, I don’t think this figure is unreasonable. According to Groenhuijsen et al. (2010):
“Most of the foreign prisoners in Spain are coming from North African countries (which are 37.6% in the Catalan prisons, unpublished).”
M. S. Groenhuijsen, Theo de Roos, T. Kooijmans (2010). Fervet Opus: Liber Amicorum–Anton Van Kalmthout, Maklu, p. 64
https://books.google.ca/books?id=jt4hBOjp_TkC&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=number+of+foreigners+in+prison+in+spain&source=bl&ots=r3qwvXwHg9&sig=Ch_7xI5l05OWpOPHU0AAC-9RRnI&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=tW28VPafBYrCsAT0p4LwDg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=number%20of%20foreigners%20in%20prison%20in%20spain&f=false
This figure of 37.6% excludes immigrants from the former Spanish Sahara, who can obtain Spanish nationality after legal and continuous residence of 2 years, after which they are no longer counted as foreign residents. It also excludes Spanish-born children of immigrants, who automatically receive Spanish nationality. Between 2000 and 2010, the majority of children born in Spain were children of immigrants.
So if we look at Spanish Muslims between 14 and 24 years of age (which are the prime years for violent crime), a majority of them would probably not even be counted as foreigners.
“I’ve noticed a pattern. Some of the contributors to this website, such as Peter Frost and Razib Khan, tend to act in the following manner. They will publish a blogpost purporting to describe the unique evil of Muslims and Islam. Some commenters will point out that in some respects, the behavior and beliefs of (some) Jews is morally equivalent to or worse than the behavior and/or beliefs of (some) Muslims (…) The blogger will then accuse the commenter of derailing the discussion and diagnose him/her with “Jew-obsession,” even though the topic of the post was the purportedly unique evil of Islam and Muslims, and therefore invites comparisons with other groups.”
Oh boy. First of all, I don’t consider Islam to be directly responsible for the high crime rate of Muslims in Europe. Some Muslim immigrants (like those from Indonesia) have very low crime rates. Conversely, some non-Muslim immigrants have similarly high incarceration rates. So the topic of my post was not the “purportedly unique evil of Islam and Muslims.”
Did you even read my post? Or did you just want to sound off on your favorite hobby horse? FWIW, I originally planned to title my post: “Why I’m not an anti-jihadist.”
For some people, almost any topic invites discussion about Jews. I have no control over the strange thought processes of some people, but I do have control over my blog, and I’ve come to the conclusion that some people will look for — or simply invent — any excuse to sound off on their favorite obsession. Please, stop it
I suppose I should reply now, before I am banned.
Groenhuijsen et al. claim that “Most of the foreign prisoners in Spain are coming from North African countries….” No source is provided for this claim, but an unpublished manuscript is cited for the parenthetical claim: “(which are 37.6% in the Catalan prisons).”
This is ambiguous between:
(1) 37.6% of Catalan prisoners are foreigners.
(2) 37.6% of Catalan prisoners are North African foreigners.
I strongly suspect that (1) is meant, given that (1) is consistent with the following claim in Feixa et. al. (2010), referring to the total foreign prison population and sourced to government statistics (no doubt corrupted by the liberal elite):
“In Catalonia, foreigners represented 22 and 37.5 per cent in 1999 and 2006, respectively (Department of Justice Catalonia 2008)” (p. 42).
Groenhuijsen et al. give no source for their assertion that “Most of the foreign prisoners in Spain are coming from North African countries.” Moreover, there is reason to doubt their assertion. Feixa et al. continue: “According to the 2007 INE [National Institute of Statistics] survey for Spain, 18 to 25-year-old foreigners represented 31.4 per cent of the [national] inmate population [it was higher in Catalonia]: 10.5 per cent came from [Latin] America, and 10 per cent were from European countries other than Spain; 9 per cent were from Africa” (ibid.). (Africans did make up a slight plurality of the foreign prison population in Catalonia).
Africans, therefore, do not even compose a plurality, much less of a majority, of the (young) foreign prison population. Presumably, not all of the Africans are Muslim, either.
So, to recap, you initially cited a website called WikiIslam.net, that cited an unsourced and almost certainly false claim by the International Islamic News Agency. Then to bolster your claim, you cited yet another unsourced and probably false claim about the foreign prison population in Spain, and then “extrapolated” the “data” to the entire prison population. This is remarkable methodology for someone who apparently has an academic background.
In fairness to you, you are indeed less “Islam-obsessed” than “Muslim-obssessed,” and less “Muslim-obsessed” than “anybody-with-dark-skin-obsessed.”
Matt,
I’m not used to moderating comments. On my previous website, I deleted only 4 or 5 comments over the same number of years. Please keep in mind that in some jurisdictions I can be held accountable not only for what I say under my name but also for what anonymous commenters say. And there’s no way of knowing whether an anonymous commenter really believes what he or she writes.
If you don’t believe the figure of 37.6%, you can contact the author. He’s not anonymous and can easily be contacted. I stand by his “probably false claim” because it is consistent with what we see elsewhere in Western Europe. In France, the figure is around 60% for all Muslims, and most of them are from North Africa. In Switzerland, the prison of Champ-Dollon in Geneva has provided a full breakdown of its prison population by nationality:
Eastern Europe/Caucasus/Russia – 28.7%
North Africa – 20.4%
Other Africa – 18.8%
Other Europe – 11.8%
Switzerland – 7.7%
Middle East – 6.5%
Americas – 4.7%
Asia and Oceania – 1.2%
Stateless – 0.2%
Source: http://www.ge.ch/champ-dollon/doc/rapport-d-activites-2011.pdf
Foreigners make up a majority of the prison population in most of Western Europe. Spain is an exception only because it is much easier for a foreigner to acquire Spanish nationality. Spanish-born children of foreigners automatically acquire Spanish citizenship, and citizenship is extended to immigrants from the Spanish Sahara after only two years.
“you are indeed less “Islam-obsessed” than “Muslim-obssessed,” and less “Muslim-obsessed” than “anybody-with-dark-skin-obsessed.”
Then why do I mention that East and Southeast Asians have unusually low crime rates, including Muslim Indonesians? Please, don’t be a jerk. Show a modicum of civility in your comments.
Peter,
You wondered aloud about how Bangladeshis might differ in behaviour from Pathans. London’s Bangladeshi population is very tightly clustered in two boroughs in the east of the city: Tower Hamlets and Newham. No other sizeable ethnic group shows such a strong clustering effect. Hasidic Jews probably form even more tightly-knit communities, but they are fewer in number and don’t appear in population census results as an individual group.
Some Bangladeshi youths have formed street gangs and physical attacks on others have been reported. However, the scale and intensity of their violence seems little different from that of the English working-class youth gangs who predominated in London’s East End decades ago. It is far less than that of gangs of black and mixed-race youths in the city, who are more volatile than anyone else.
Recurring allegations of cronyism and electoral fraud have been made of local Bangladeshi politicians – at least some of these allegations have substance. Although declining, the Total Fertility Rate for Bangladeshi women is still the highest of any sizeable ethnic group in London.
Afghanis do not form a noticeable block in London. Those who have come here gravitate towards the usual forms of subsistence entrepreneuralism, with some going on to run sizeable shops selling cheap household goods. One such shop near where I live became the focus of black-Afghan tensions. A black youth had apparently returned some electrical item to the shop where he’d bought it, claiming it did not work. A heated argument developed and the youth ended up being dragged to the yard behind the shop where the Afghani shop staff beat him severely with sticks.
A hastily-convened group of black activists began picketing the shop and handing out leaflets over several weekends. One led chants with the aid of a megaphone. The shop owners eventually bowed and a lengthy apology was printed and fixed to the shop window.
If I’m not mistaken Indonesia is made up of Sufi Muslims who practice a sane and peaceful style of Islam. This would explain their tolerance and general lack of aggression.
But why do they always bring up Jews in the first place? Muslims are about 1.5 billion, Jews about 15 million.
Jews just aren’t relevant to the Peter Frost’s post above.
If you don’t believe the figure of 37.6%, you can contact the author.
I don’t have any problem with the figure of 37.5/37.6% as long as it refers to the total percentage of foreign prisoners in Catalonia. Indeed I gave a separate source citing roughly the same figure. What I have a problem with is the authors’ claim: “Most of the foreign prisoners in Spain are coming from North African countries.” They don’t give a source for this, and the source I gave, citing INE statistics, says that in 2007, 9% of prisoners were foreigners from Africa. Since 31.4 % of Spanish prison population was foreign, that means that less than a third (not even a plurality) of foreign prisoners come from Africa.
I don’t see how the 70% figure for Spain is consistent with other European countries, given that Spain has only a ~2% Muslim population. France’s does indeed appear to have ~60% Muslims in its prisons, but it also has a 7.5% Muslim population, a proportion over 3 times greater than Spain’s. All of the other numbers you provided for European countries (Belgium, England and Wales, Switzerland) give figures less than 70% with a proportionally larger Muslim population. And the 70% figure for Spain just isn’t consistent with the other figures I’ve provided in these comments.
One more point. The chapter by Ioan Durnescu in Groenhuijsen et al. that you cite is interesting. Although I disagree with his unsourced claim that most foreign prisoners in Spain are from North Africa, the context in which he makes this claim is in a discussion of studies whose “main conclusion was that the most valid theory [explains] the over-representation of foreigners in [European] prisons by the interaction of between socio-economic factors and the discriminatory treatment applied to this group by the criminal justice agents” (p. 64).
I have no idea whether Durnescu is right about his larger point, but it seems worth following up on.
My advice:
Either block whatever really annoys you (“at whim” moderation), or don’t moderate at all. People who are sarcastic, nasty, insulting and generally unpleasant are never going to be your friend; they’ve got preconceived notions and it’s unlikely you’ll change their mind.
So if you are going to moderate, go ahead and do so in a manner that makes it easier on you to blog. Only people who have moderators on staff can moderate impartially (maybe Unz should hire someone). It’s impossible to do so as the author, so you might as well just toss the attacks in the trash, unless you find one compelling or amusing. Otherwise, you’ll have to go through the unpleasant process of trying to untangle your frustration from some vague “guidelines” so as to make a fair decision, which in the end will not be appreciated anyway.
Kevin MacDonald notes that Jews tend to excel at whatever activity has the greatest prestige in the country they live in.
MacDonald’s honesty is extremely questionable. It appears he may have twisted his sources out of context on a number of occasions – which if true is a rather large problem for his followers since he’s their primary reference for evidence Jews opened America’s borders:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_B._MacDonald#Academic_reception
http://web.archive.org/web/20090411051702/http://www.people.hbs.edu/dlieberman/lieberman.jewsRaceEmpire.pdf”
Jewish insistence on uncontrolled mass immigration
This is a lie and part of the reason antisemites have rightly been driven out of any public policy debate. Polls of Jews show a majority of American Jews support less immigration:
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/10/12/2741253/poll-jewish-support-for-obama-falling
The survey asked its Jewish respondents: “A new law in Arizona gives police the power to ask people they’ve stopped to verify their residency status. Supporters say this will help crack down on illegal immigration. Opponents say it could violate civil rights and lead to racial profiling. On balance, do you support or oppose this law?”
The result was a slim majority in favor of the law: 52 percent to 46 percent.
http://cis.org/ReligionAndImmigrationPoll
In contrast to many religious leaders, most members think immigration is too high.
Jews: 50 percent said it is too high; 5 percent said is too low; 22 percent just right.
I recognize that Jewish people have agency, as individuals and as organizations. My problem is with Jew obsession, i.e., the notion that everything and anything that goes wrong is due to Jewish malfeasance. It’s not so, and it discredits anything else you might say.
When they aren’t lying (such as by counting partial Jews like the half-WASP Pinch Sulzberger as fully Jewish) antisemites undermine their credibility by confusing Jewish participation in liberalism with being causal to liberalism. No one denies Jewish participation in leftism, but whether they caused liberalism is very questionable because gentile liberals have existed greater in number and supported basically the same ideas with or without Jews.
Western Europe’s elite is over 90% gentile (vs 70-80% in America) and have been decades ahead of America’s elite on issues such as immigration, gay marriage, and nationalized health care. If Western nations move left with or without Jews then Jewish elites are to a large extent interchangeable with gentile elites. They both have basically the same motivations, policies, and life outlooks. But antisemites never accept this because they keep (wrongly) viewing every action by Jewish elites as having hidden motives that distinguish them from gentiles. For the most part, Jewish and gentile elites basically reflect the same views and there’s no reason to obsess over differences between them.
Antisemites counter that Western Europe is really run by Jews through American influence, but if that were so then the EU’s foreign policy establishment wouldn’t have been Arabist for decades and the EU wouldn’t be farther left of America if liberalism were exported from America to Europe.
What antisemites are really denying gentile elites have any moral agency, that no matter how thoroughly gentile a nation’s elite is that Jews are 100% guilty of controlling the country.
Indonesians are genetically very different from the people of the Middle East and North Africa.
Because they were merely trying to mimic the WASP elite.
Oh wait, that’s exactly the opposite of what happened.
“The Myth of Old Money Liberalism: The Politics of the Forbes 400 Richest Americans”
There has been little to no conflict between Jews and a ‘conservative’ WASP elite because the WASP elite (which refers only to a segment of Northeastern mainline Protestants, not to Anglo Americans generally) hasn’t been conservative since Calvin Coolidge. Which, btw, is also the last time American Jews leaned conservative.
Jews and other white ethnic immigrants were the proteges of progressive WASPs, who were often Communist sympathisers, much like Fabian British socialists and most continental European mainstream left parties*. Those WASP progressives used the New Deal to defeat the country’s majority of conservative leaning WASPs using FDR’s New Deal coalition of WASP liberals and ethnic white voters.
After WWII, WASPs were either progressive Rockefeller Republicans or left liberals.
Howard Dean III, David Souter, John Paul Stevens, Adlai Stevenson, McGeorge Bundy (whose liberalism earned a place on Nixon’s enemies list) , Angus King, Jay Rockefeller, Ned Lamont (whose great grandfather Corlis Lamont was a vocal defender of Soviet Russia) get along perfectly well with liberal Jewish elites.
Both Yankee WASPs and Jews have done quite a bit of intermarrying. Senator Michael Bennett of Colorado, Pinch Sulzberger, Tom Steyer, Cap Weinberger, John Kerry are all half-Jewish half-WASP elites.
* The mainstream Western left only became anti-Communist for a 25 year period when after WWII Soviet Russia refused to divide the world the Western liberals wanted. Prior to that, mainstream liberals were highly sympathetic to Communism.
“What I have a problem with is the authors’ claim: “Most of the foreign prisoners in Spain are coming from North African countries.” They don’t give a source for this, and the source I gave, citing INE statistics, says that in 2007, 9% of prisoners were foreigners from Africa.”
First, if you suspect that the author is lying, why don’t you contact him? He’s a publicly known individual and easy to reach.
Second, you’re assuming that the word “foreign” has the same meaning in Spain as it does in other Western European countries. It doesn’t. It is much easier for immigrants to acquire citizenship in Spain and thus cease to be foreigners. Most people in the North African community are not classified as foreign residents. This is particularly the case for younger members, who are more likely to be Spanish-born and involved in violent crime. This group — the second generation — now accounts for a large portion of the North African community:
“The demographic profile of the North African migrant communities has become increasingly complex over time due to the slow but constant process of family reunification. This is shown by the gradual feminization of these communities […] The development of a “second generation”, today at different stages of the Spanish education system, constitutes a very important issue in itself, and presents a totally different profile from that of primary migrants.”
https://www.academia.edu/3455958/Evolution_of_Spanish_immigration_policies_and_their_impact_on_North-African_migration_to_Spain
“a discussion of studies whose “main conclusion was that the most valid theory [explains] the over-representation of foreigners in [European] prisons by the interaction of between socio-economic factors and the discriminatory treatment applied to this group by the criminal justice agents”
Yes, that is the main conclusion. It’s also the only acceptable conclusion in an academic environment. Ironically, law enforcement is weaker in certain immigrant communities because the police are afraid to confront lawbreakers, since such confrontations quickly escalate. There are now many “no go areas,” especially in France, where the police do not venture alone.
Bill,
I’m not looking for friendship. I can take insults directed at me. I’m excluding only those comments that are wildly off-topic and/or use offensive language.
The Undiscovered Jew,
Eventually, I may write about the shift to global immigration in the 1960s. There were many factors involved, particularly pressure from officials in foreign affairs to eliminate discriminatory laws and policies (in order to gain influence among the emerging countries of the Third World). This was the case with Canada. We were under intense pressure from the New Commonwealth to make immigration non-discriminatory.
MacDonald works in academia, where there are a whole lot of Jews, and I’m sure that’s a factor in what he perceives. The most antisemitic people I’ve met have generally been academics, including a couple who were Jews themselves. Most have the sense to keep it to themselves, but it’s there for sure.
Competition breeds hatred. But that cuts both ways.
So if we’re going to drive antisemites out of public policy debates, it’s only fair that Jews who hate gentiles ought to take a hike, too.
As someone whose family had loved ones killed and wounded/traumatized in action in WWII, whenever I hear Jews drawing comparisons between Americans and Nazis (see Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s UVa article for the latest slander), it makes my blood boil. While I’m mature enough to realize that this isn’t the majority Jewish view, it makes a pretty bad impression on young minds, and that has to stop for the sake of both Jews and gentiles.
So go ahead and denounce MacDonald if it pleases you, but the best cure for antisemitism in my opinion is (1) reciprocity (good manners, fair play, etc.), and (2) education and openness. In my case, it was a class I took on the Torah (academic focus — not religious) and classical Jewish history that erased resentment toward Jews.
Anyway, if Peter wants to ban this issue it wouldn’t bother me at all, because it’s usually nothing more than a sideshow and unwelcome distraction from more important matters.
Dont know about sufi thing in Indonesia . But the muslims have got a raw deal from the corrupt western educated section of the society which has been fully supported by the Dutch,US,and British . The awareness of entitlement and share to the national wealth .concept of nations , nature and presence of corruption ,and the civic duties are some of the things that take time to emerge,coalesce and solidify into movement.
I hope it does . Throwing of Suharto was a good beginning but the nation’s economy,secular education,and media are still controlled by cabal of exclusive club of ethnocentric Chinese Christian whose overthrow is also long overdue .
First, if you suspect that the author is lying, why don’t you contact him? He’s a publicly known individual and easy to reach.
I don’t suspect he is lying, and I never said as much. I suspect he is guilty of an honest mistake. Perhaps I will contact him.
Second, you’re assuming that the word “foreign” has the same meaning in Spain as it does in other Western European countries.
No, I am not. Let’s review what’s happened so far. You made the claim that 70% of Spanish (citizen and non-citizen) prisoners are Muslims. I disputed this, and cited several figures contradicting it. You responded by citing a source that claimed that most of the foreign (under the official Spanish definition of “foreign,” i.e., non-citizen) Spanish prisoners are North African. You used this as a basis to speculate that your initial claim that 70% of Spanish prisoners overall are Muslim.
I am currently disputing the claim that most foreign (under the official definition) Spanish prisoners are North African. Therefore, the claim that most foreign (under the official definition) Spanish prisoners are North African, being false, is not a proper basis for speculation about the composition of the total Spanish prison population.
With regard to “no-go areas,” please see Daniel Pipes’ (who essentially coined the term) updates of Jan. 16, 2013 and Jan. 14, 2015.
It has nothing to do with anti-Semites or anti-Semitism. Peter Frost has noted that European countries are cultural colonies of the United States:
http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2015/01/sometimes-consensus-is-phony.html?showComment=1420486899011#c9202880193300428896
There is no Jewish insistence on uncontrolled immigration except in your crazy mind.
@Peter,
“like the Gurkhas in the British army”
Gurkhas are not Muslim. They are Hindu or Buddhist.
MacDonald, the expert on all things Jewish, not.
Jews in Yemen excelled?
In Morocco?
In Greece?
Nope.
This place is truly a loony bin.
Jews (except the lefty loonies) do not draw comparisons between Nazis and Americans. In fact, during the fight over Obamacare, when every Republican ditz was doing just that, Barney Frank (for whom I have next to no regard) would stomp them.
The UVA rape hoax has nothing to do with this idiotic “Americans as Nazis” meme, except in your sick mind.
I also doubt you had any family members who served in WWII.
” No one denies Jewish participation in leftism, but whether they caused liberalism is very questionable because gentile liberals have existed greater in number and supported basically the same ideas with or without Jews.
Western Europe’s elite is over 90% gentile (vs 70-80% in America) and have been decades ahead of America’s elite on issues such as immigration, gay marriage, and nationalized health care.”
Gentile Northern Europe is actually more socially liberal on issues like drug use, gay marriage, prostitution, and open borders than Jewish Israel is.
The Goys in Sweden actually encourage boys to play with toys that are meant for girls. You can’t get more socially liberal than that.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/swedish-toys-r-us-catalog-gender-stereotypes_n_2198045.html
And don’t forget marijuana and prostitution is legal in Goy Netherlands but not in Jewish Israel. Legalizing prostitution and marijuana is a very liberal thing to do.
“Gurkhas are not Muslim. They are Hindu or Buddhist.”
I agree. So what? I’m not arguing that violent crime is high among Muslim immigrants because they are Muslim. Certain Muslim immigrants, like Indonesians, have very low rates of violent crime. Conversely, certain non-Muslim immigrants, like Roma and Christian or animist sub-Saharan Africans, have rates comparable to those of Muslim North Africans. The underlying cause is not religion but rather the fact they all come from societies where the State has only recently imposed its monopoly on the use of violence. This is notably the case in highland regions, like those of the Gurkhas.
Matt,
Let me walk you through all of this.
It’s likely that a majority of people in Spain’s North African community are not classified as “foreign residents.” This is especially so for the 2nd generation, who are young and who are also most likely to be involved in violent crime. So data on “foreign residents” can capture only a fraction of the people of North African origin in Spanish prisons. Moreover, Spain is now home to other Muslim communities from West Africa, the former colony of Spanish Sahara, and the Middle East. There are also smaller numbers of Muslims from the Balkans.
Groenhuijsen et al. claim that North Africans make up 37.6% of inmates in Catalan prisons. You argue that the figure must be lower, at most 9% (assuming that all “foreigners from Africa” are Muslim). I suspect both of you are right. Groenhuijsen et al. are probably referring to all people of North African origin, regardless of their legal status. Your figure of 9% refers only to foreign residents.
So let’s take that figure of 9%, and try to estimate the figure for all inmates of North African origin in Spain, regardless of their legal status. Since most of them have Spanish nationality, we can more than double the figure of 9%. Moreover, since almost all youths have Spanish nationality, and since that age group is responsible for most violent crime, we can easily triple or even quadruple that figure. So we’re back to the 37.6% given by Groenhuijsen et al.
But North Africans are only part of Spain’s Muslim population. There is also a large community of immigrants from the former Spanish Sahara. They get Spanish nationality after only two years residence, so they wouldn’t show up in that earlier figure of 9%. There are also substantial communities from the Middle East. Finally, there are significant numbers of Balkan Muslims who can enter Spain via the European Community.
So we’re looking at a larger figure than 37.6%. How much larger? It’s difficult to say because Spain, like most Western European countries, does not collect data on religion or ethnicity. It’s clear, in any case, that Muslims are greatly overrepresented in Spain’s prison population. You can condemn the estimate of 70%. Fine. But the real figure is not far off.
If you wish, I will incorporate all of the above points in my post.
That doesn’t seem to have been the case, although it’s apparently widely repeated and believed these days. Hence “The Myth of Old Money Liberalism”. See the PDF of the paper linked above.
And the New Deal coalition was not an really elite or WASP coalition. See Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer, pgs. 874 to 877:
This is true beyond measure. For whatever reason Arabs in general believe they would be able to command or a lead a situation better if they were in charge. I am truly baffle how a religion such as Islam can be so prevalent amongst Arabs, especially a religion that DEMANDS submission to a God and his man-prophet.
The men walk around with bundles of notes as big as a fist.
(because they don’t trust banks)
(don’t trust anyone really apart from their many cousins)
(funny that)
.
@matt
It did seem high to me at first for that reason but a bit of googling led to a page saying that prison places in Spain have more than quadrupled since 1980 i.e. 75%+ of the current prison places are recently created to deal with recent problems hence the 70% figure makes sense imo.
http://iberosphere.com/2010/06/overcrowding-leaves-spains-prisons-on-the-brink/1105
“In 1980 the country’s prison population was around 18,000. It is now close to 80,000.”
“…Spain’s Penal Code. This was revised in 1995 … ensuring harsher sentences for robbery and drugs trafficking”
Robbery and drug dealing being the niche of young male blue collar immigrants.
Oh really? And here I was thinking that people writing for Unz thought it would be a great way to soak in the love and approval shattering the idols of goodthink is sure to bring. 🙂
Seriously, though, what I meant was that their behavior won’t change, and it will drive more reasonable types away. When your readership becomes more political and less academic, some people start acting like pigs.
Sure, but your regular audience likely does not care for insults (I’m speaking from experience moderating here — not personal feelings), and they are the ones who keep faithfully coming back and engaging thoughtfully with the content. Trolls don’t need to cuss to throw little bombs in the comment thread, and they live for disruption.
When people show up with an antagonistic attitude and make personal attacks on you or your readers (e.g. calling your or your commenters’ ideas “stupid” or “crazy” instead of presenting a reasonable counterargument), it does have an impact, and it can drive people away. Trolling works.
In my experience personal attacks – including against the author – are considerably worse than offensive language.
I like reading this site and the comments, so I’m just offering a little friendly advice here from years of experience moderating comment threads that ran into the hundreds. Of course it’s up to you, but I’d recommend keeping the many “silent” readers in mind when moderating. Only a few percent of your audience will comment regularly, and trolls are hardly ever regular readers — if they were they wouldn’t have a vested interest in trying to sabotage the blog. So, if you think about it, it’s kind of unfair to give them free rein when they’re really just “drive by” commenters.
There is a very big problem with the statistics in France, and not only about growth and unemployment: as I said formerly, I distrust the demographic datas given by the French State, and I know as I lived it that many of those “youths” that are arrested for burglaries, assaults, robberies, never go to trial and are officially released because of “no place in the prisons”; the real figures of criminality are much, much higher. Don’t forget that, thanks to Mrs Taubira, people convinced to less than 2 years imprisonment never serve the sentence. As I was a shopkeeper, we all knew in the mall that under 300 € robbery, the robber is never indicted -the policemen used to tell it openly, but released, and the fact is just written on the log.
Extraordinary cultural achievements are mostly associated with Ashkenazi. Presumably when most Westerners think of Jews they are thinking of Ashkenazi. There’s a pretty large genetic distance between Ashkenazi and say Ethiopian Jews.
Israel is certainly nothing like a Western liberal society.
Throughout all of Southeast Asia the Chinese diaspora has an extraordinay share of the wealth and much higher socio-economic and educational status than the indigeneous population. Even though Korea was ruled by China for much of its history this pattern does not seem to occur there. Koreans and Chinese are probably fairly close in average cognitive level. Han Chinese seem to be about 10 IQ points above Southeast Asians.
The economic domainance of Chinese in Southeast Asia is a striking example of the importance of genetics.
Groenhuijsen et al. [sic; Durnescu] claim that North Africans make up 37.6% of inmates in Catalan prisons.
It wasn’t clear to me at all that Durnescu was claiming that. As I said, one way of parsing his sentence is that foreigners (i.e., non-nationals) make up 37.6% of the Catalan prison population. In any case, it clear that Durnescu is referring to non-nationals, i.e., the official Spanish definition of “foreigner,” not whatever definition he decided to make up off the top of his head. This is abundantly clear from the context, e.g.:
“Obviously migrants are travelling more and more across Europe. But are they prone to commit more crimes than nationals?” (Durnescu op cit., 64; my emphasis).
So, when Durnescu says:
“Most of the foreign prisoners in Spain are coming from North African countries” (ibid.)
It is quite clear that he is referring to non-nationals. That means that if you concede the INE figure of 9% African non-national prisoners for all of Spain, you are agreeing with me that this sentence is false.
Now, what does his parenthetical claim mean?
“(which are 37.6% in the Catalan prisons, unpublished).” (ibid.)
Since it is clear that the context is about non-nationals, he must, again, be referring to non-nationals. That means, like I said, the sentence is ambiguous between:
(1) 37.6% of Catalan prisoners are non-nationals.
(2) 37.6% of Catalan prisoners are North African non-nationals.
(2) is unlikely, given that only 12.9% of the young prisoners in Catalonia are non-nationals from Africa, according to INE statistics from Feixa et al., p. 42. Therefore, (1) is meant, and indeed this is almost identical to the figure of 37.5% non-nationals for prisoners in Catalonia given, front Catalan government statistics, in Feixa et al.
I am glad that you are so confident that you can “easily triple or even quadruple” the 9% figure for the total prison population of Spain, and that the “real figure is not far off” from 70%. But I hope you might be able to see why a skeptic could reasonably remain unconvinced. This is not sound scientific methodology, and I’m being as polite as I can be when I say that.
In any case, I should emphasize that even should the 70% figure turn out totally correct, your initial claim was based on almost nothing, and it is at least prima facie contradicted by other sources, already cited.
If I didn’t know better, I would say that you know this, and are now scrambling to come up with a priori arguments for your initial claim, in order to preserve your credibility.
If you were just some random blogger, this would be understandable. But you have a Ph.D, right?
A 1996 chat among Jews who seek to shed the Liberal affiliation in favor of conservatism.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?71501-1/jewish-philosophy-politics
several take-aways:
1. Michael Medved: “My grandmother, an immigrant who cold not speak English, idolized FDR and the New Deal. The only picture she had in her house was of FDR, and she kissed it every night.” (nb. the “kissed it every night” theme might be from a Rafael Medoff speech that included the topic, Jews loved FDR and New Deal.)
2. Liberalism became the Jewish religion.
3. The New Deal worked well for Jews. But, says the rabbi w/ Australian accent, many liberal causes are adamantly opposed to Jewish, Torah values; for example, abortion and homosexuality are antithetical to Torah values — and, presumably, to the “centuries and centuries of discipline” that Wisse brandishes).
4. Ruth Wisse: “If Blacks want to be successful like Jews, we should teach them how to be Jews: our success came from centuries and centuries of study and discipline. . . Affirmative action is morally suspect …
[Wisse neglects to mention that Jacob Schiff & others used their wealth to induce Japan to wage war on Russia, and financed Japan so that Russia would be vanquished. This was the beginning of over a century of instability between Russia – Western Europe. Wisse also fails to mention that Jews flocked to German & Austrian universities. Maybe what Wisse means is that Black people should be provided free educations like the one that Irving Kristol, one of Wisse’s co-panelists, and his fellow former Trotskyites received courtesy of New York taxpayers).
Perhaps Wisse’s disdain for “affirmative action” will motivate her to demand that the US State Dept. office that monitors antisemitism will be shut down immediately.]
5. Q from the audience: “So how do we solve the problem of liberalism in Judaism?”
Responses:
-Irving Kristol: “Kill all the liberals … Kill all the conservatives … Or, realize that there are people who think differently from the way we think.” (Kristol’s comment greeted w/ laughter)
-Rabbi David Lapin: “I think we can look at Mr. Kristol’s suggestion and vary that just slightly and keep most people happy. I don’t think we should kill off all the liberals, however, when the Jewish people exited from Egypt and had to make this transition from slavery, which is essentially the ultimate in socialism, if you think about it: you’re slaves to the state; you work so that almost all your income is taken by the state and in return the state will take care of all your needs and it’s just another word for slavery.
As we moved away from the ultimate of Egyptian based socialism to the freedom of an Israel-based free market economy 3300 years ago ,* it was understood, sadly and tragically but it was understood that we did have to wait for an entire generation to pass away.” **
* The Canaanites and the people of Jericho might have a different pov re “the freedom of an Israel-based free market economy 3300 years ago.”
** Michael Ledeen fills in more of the “sad and tragic” details of the Jews who “exited Egyptian socialism” — Moses instructed the Levites (to which tribe Ledeen claims he is proud to belong) to kill those Jews who worshiped the Golden Calf. According to Ledeen’s reading of “the book and not the movie version” of Exodus, god also told Moses to kill those Jews who wished to return to Egypt rather than face the hardships of conquering Jericho & Canaan. Moses bargained with god and got the ‘sentence’ reduced to the scheme that Rabbi Lapin notes — a generation must die before any may enter “the freedom of an Israel based free market economy.”
6. Panel member Marshall Breger noted that
“It turns out that the Jewish philanthropies, while the jewish community is tremendous in its support of its own philanthropies, they also are getting large sums from the federal government and large sums through state governments . so they have an interest in keeping that money stream up. and they have an interest in not looking at alternatives.” [see Ruth Wisse, above]
—
Mr. Frost, some are “obsessed” with Jews because the topic is laced with so many contradictions, and because study of those contradictions is verboten while harsh critique of institutions and people whose agendas are not oriented toward Jewish concerns is not only accepted but applauded. For example, Michael Medved, who moderated the panel discussion, closed the conversation with thanks to George Washington University and its president, Mr. Tractenberg, and a swipe at Georgetown University which, Medved implied, was too backward to recognize a Shakespeare quote. It should be noted that this discussion took place in 1996. In 2007, under the leadership of Robert Lieber, Georgetown University created a department for Judaic studies. One speculates that, thereby, Georgetown has now entered the realm of the “disciplined intellectual” of which Wisse boasts.)
Why would you doubt I had family members serve in WWII? 16 million out of some 65 million American men alive at the time served. The entire country was mobilized so that fighting age men could join the armed forces.
Do the math and it quickly becomes clear that just about every American family was affected by the war. And anyway, it isn’t like American men had a choice as to whether they’d join or not. There was a little something called “the draft” in effect for the duration of the war.
Maybe some privileged families could stay out of the conflict, but not mine. Among my grandparents and their siblings, at least four served, and one died. My maternal grandfather was in the 8th Army Air Force’s 388th bomb group on a B-17 crew. He flew 32 missions over Europe, and almost got shot down on a raid over Berlin when flak shrapnel wounded the pilot and copilot (the navigator took control and saved the plane). His brother was captain of a destroyer, which was hit by a bomb and almost sunk, in the Pacific theater. My paternal grandfather’s kid brother was a sailor who died in the Pacific theater, and my paternal grandmother’s brother was a sailor in the merchant marine, which was not technically part of the armed forces but was extremely dangerous due to submarine warfare. I have been told that my grandmother’s cousin – a Lutheran minister – was shot in Norway for preaching against the occupation, but I’ve never met that side of the family so I don’t know for sure.
How about you? Didn’t any of your family members serve?
“Mr. Frost, some are “obsessed” with Jews because the topic is laced with so many contradictions, and because study of those contradictions is verboten”
Fine, but Jews are not the subject of this post. Aren’t you being a bit narcissistic in insisting that your point of view must be discussed even when it isn’t the subject of discussion?
“If I didn’t know better, I would say that you know this, and are now scrambling to come up with a priori arguments for your initial claim, in order to preserve your credibility.”
Matt,
If I wanted to preserve my credibility at all costs, I would simply ban you. I haven’t because I want to understand your point of view. Frankly, you’re making it difficult.
You accuse me of excluding evidence I don’t like or twisting the evidence to say things that it doesn’t really say. But isn’t that exactly what you’re doing? You rejected the initial claim of 70% because it contradicts your own sources. You then rejected the estimate of 37.6% (North Africans in Catalan prisons) by saying it must be a mistake. You argue that it must be an estimate of all foreign prisoners in Spanish prisons. I suggested that you contact the author but you rejected that route.
Matt, can we at least agree on one thing? Do you accept that most North Africans in Spain have Spanish nationality? Can we at least agree on that? And can we agree that North African youths are more likely to have Spanish nationality than older North Africans (since acquisition of Spanish nationality is automatic for anyone born in Spain)? And can we agree that the Muslim community in Spain includes other groups, and not just North Africans?
I’m used to dealing with conflicting sources. In some cases, dishonesty is a factor. In most cases, it isn’t. It’s possible to sort these things out with a bit of good will, but that’s one human quality that seems to be lacking in you.
Korean IQ may have something to do with this, but I don’t think it’s a very important factor. Korea has had a very strict policy of ethnic exclusion since the Mongol invasion. When the Mongols finally left, there was a systematic elimination of non-Koreans from society. After that, Koreans established a tributary relationship with the Ming dynasty that set strict limits on trade and population transfers. Nevertheless, Chinese scholars, teachers and nobles could and did enter Korean society. Koreans have lived in what is now North China for millennia, and they have sent students to Peking for hundreds of years (the largest Korean population outside of Korea is in Peking — I used to work in the Korean district and Hangul was everywhere). And this largely intellectual/official exchange may have suppressed commercial activity too; Confucians tend to assign a very low status to merchants.
South China and SE Asia are different in that commerce has long been better developed and held in higher esteem than in NE Asia, and warfare less horrific. People were and continue to be more tolerant, pluralistic, less belligerent, etc. There are not only diaspora Chinese throughout SE Asia, but other Asians, and even Arabs, who have long engaged in trade in South China itself.
You’d think that if it were about IQ, then Chinese merchants would be doing a thriving business in Mongolia, East Turkestan (Xinjiang), Tibet, Siberia, etc. But that has never really been the case. They are dominant in some of those regions today only because of the garrison regime (i.e. military occupation); Chinese were not really economically dominant on the Silk Road past Lanzhou in Gansu province or north of the Gobi and inner Mongolian plain.
It’s hard to compare life north of the Yangtze – not to mention the Yellow River – to SE Asia. It’s really two different worlds.
Korea was never ruled by China. It was in vassal and tributary relations with China at various times int he past. The Mongol Yuan dynasty which ruled China also ruled Korea. This is different from direct rule or colonization. Vassals and tributaries can be autonomous and independent in domestic affairs.
You need to go back and read some history. Like Robert Briffault and Joseph McCabe.
Doesn’t sound like you know how selective pressures work, esp considering the randomness of modernity. Aggressive genes have little to do with whether you go to war or not, it could be the opposite, the more stupid and less capable did not go to war. We don’t know. Nor do we know whether it was the aggressive peoples that survived or not. If they were naturally more attuned to war, it could be the aggressive ones surviving war. But take WWI British, it was the MORE obedient and more cooperative young men that went to war or who were guilted into it, because they saw it as fighting for order and for country, not due to their natural violent nature.
@matt
http://iberosphere.com/2010/06/overcrowding-leaves-spains-prisons-on-the-brink/1105
#
The problem here is
1) There is a direct unarguable link between blue collar males of a certain age and the sort of crimes you go to prison for.
2) Over the last 20-30 years the political elite in Europe have imported millions of young males in the prime criminal age group from the bottom of the economic pile in their original countries. They wanted them from the bottom of the pile because the Right wanted to drive down wages and the Left wanted them to ensure they voted Left.
So there is absolutely no reason to be surprised at the extreme ratio of immigrant or recently immigrant populations in European prisons.
If a country has a population of 40 million and 20 million males and 10% are in the 16-24 age group and half of those are blue collar that is 1 million blue collar males aged 16-24 so 1 million immigrants all of which were blue collar males aged 16-24 *ought* to lead to a 50/50 ratio in the prisons.
The problem is this completely obvious bit of reality goes against the pro-immigration propaganda so the political elite try and hide the data which leads to all these stupid arguments over numbers where people who are pro-immigration try to deflect attention from not just reality but a completely obvious reality.
The main difference with Spain and why to me the number also seemed too high at first seems to be they built a lot more new prison places to house all these new criminals whereas in most of Europe prison places didn’t increase as much and instead the police just ignore inner city crime as much as possible.
#
Anyway assuming the base premise – as it’s unarguable – the interesting part of the discussion is over why particular groups are over or under represented above and beyond their percentage of young blue collar males like for example Irish travelers or North African Muslims.
Indonesian muslims are recent converts from Hinduism and still retain much of Hindu culture
Thanks for the correction.
“But take WWI British, it was the MORE obedient and more cooperative young men that went to war or who were guilted into it, because they saw it as fighting for order and for country, not due to their natural violent nature.”
You’re confusing personal violence with collective State-sanctioned violence, i.e., war. In the last two wars, people did not sign up out of bloodlust. I’ve met veterans who signed up to get three square meals a day. Others signed up out of a sense of duty.
The mindset of personal violence is very different. The act of violence is enjoyable, and some men report that they feel a sensation akin to orgasm. There is also the enjoyment of impressing other young men. Personal violence is not simply a means to an end, as is the case with war.
“Over the last 20-30 years the political elite in Europe have imported millions of young males in the prime criminal age group from the bottom of the economic pile in their original countries.”
The bottom? No. When North Africans were recruited for the auto industry in France (back in the 1960s), they had to meet certain criteria (medical health, technical expertise, etc.). The same with the Turks in Germany. You’re not going to change things much by fiddling with the selection criteria.
“Perhaps since you don’t discuss Jews much, unfamiliar readers will think you either don’t know, or don’t want to discuss for suspicious reasons, the “anti-racist Hitlers” of the world like Barbara Spectre. When you do discuss the Jewish role in promoting “antiracism”, it’s evident that you are knowledgeable on the topic and aren’t hiding anything.”
I write what I believe, and I believe what I write. When I say that globalism is the main problem, I’m not speaking in some kind of code (“Jews”). With or without Jews, we would face pretty much the same problems we face today. I agree that Jewish scholars played a key role in the construction of antiracism, but the pressures of globalization would still exist because they’re baked into the current economic system.
I will write more about the evolution of antiracism. As one commenter noted, antiracism was originally a WASP phenomenon, and it was as WASP protégés that Jewish immigrants entered the antiracist movement. This was the case with the NAACP. It started out as a WASP club and then gradually became Jewish. (African Americans didn’t take over until much later).
I’m puzzled by your mentioning poor, remote, dangerous places like Tibet, Siberia, Mongolia etc. . Going to Siberia from China to advance one’s economic status would be like someone in New Jersey moving to the Appalachian mountains of East Kentucky in search of economic opportunity.
The economic success of the Chinese diaspora throughtout SE Asis is pretty remarkable. They generally do much better than the indigeneous populations. In Burma which was never even in a tributary relationship with China the 3% of the Burmese population who are Chinese are very highly dominant in the economy. I suspect that the IQ differential is probably the most important explaination for this. The IQ differential with Koreans is probably non-existent so a Chinese population in Korea wouldn’t on average had any advantage over ethnic Koreans.
“You’re confusing personal violence with collective State-sanctioned violence, i.e., war. In the last two wars, people did not sign up out of bloodlust. I’ve met veterans who signed up to get three square meals a day. Others signed up out of a sense of duty.”
What are you talking? I can assure your 90% of the men who signed up for the Iraq war signed up because they wanted to kill “F*cking Ay-rabs, ragheads, and sandniggers.” I would call that bloodlust. Vietnam was different because, well, conscription.
OT:
Yes, but while Sweden is very “liberal” in some ways, marijuana and prostitution are currently both illegal there, though they do justify those policies in liberal terms.
If you look at individual issues, it becomes more difficult to characterize a country as strictly liberal or conservative. Consider that in Israel, women have served the military in combat roles for decades, and yet in the same country, a married Jewish woman has to appeal to a special religious court to grant her a divorce if her husband refuses it, no matter how secular the couple is.
In the US, I think a lot of politcally-oriented people like to think of themselves as either a “liberal” or a “conservative.” It’s almost like a team affiliation, part of their identity, something they take pride in. I suspect that “The Undiscovered Jew,” identities as a conservative and that’s part of the reason why he or she dislikes the liberal-Jewish label that some commenters on this website like to (over)emphasize. Of course, most people don’t have identical views on every issue and so those labels aren’t really that useful in many cases.
I agree that there’s a lot of collective scapegoating of Jewish people for promoting extreme liberal views about race and immigration, but I think that some of the backlash is due to the fact that there are many outspoken Jewish people who seem to be very liberal regarding issues of church and state, ethnicity, and national identity, except when Israel –the Jewish State, is concerned (I’m aware that there are Jewish critics of Israel as well, such as at Mondoweiss). While I understand that for many Jewish people, supporting Israel is an emotional issue, bending the rules to support an ethno-state where your own ethnic group is the majority, while supporting policies that will ultimately undermine the de facto existence of similar conditions elsewhere, is hypocritical and should be called out as such.
Oh you meant last two wars, as in WWI and WWII. My bad.
Touche, Yemeni ones are so representative of the overwhelming majority and the ones in the West. I used to think Kevin MacDonald was right, but I incline to Peter Frost’s view now. Can’t link to it on google books because it’s not on there anymore, but I have the book A People That Shall Dwell Alone and in that bit I cited MacDonald is quoting mainstream authors like Paul Johnson (History of the Jews).
Ottomans. http://jewishcurrents.org/april-27-suleiman-the-magnificent-16636
“… he welcomed Jews to his court as diplomats, financiers, physicians, and advisors, in particular Don Joseph Nasi and Gracia Mendes Nasi; ”
They are very prominent as immigration proponents, which has a lot of prestige. Jews are obviously superior, but few in number; doesn’t everyone realise they could be sent packing with a flick of the white gentile elite eyebrow, if the white gentiles wanted to. But they don’t want to. There is not a single white gentile billionaire who is anti immigration. The glittering prizes go to those who are against HBD, because that is the way elite white gentiles want it.
https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/lewontin-wins-the-craaford-prize/
From what I have read about the Spanish Civil war and the Algerian war and the government anti-Islamic party terror in Algeria a few years back North Africans do seem to have something of a propensity for rape and a very noticeable tendency for inflicting extremes of torture and mutilation.
Organised crime in India seems to be mainly Muslim “The Punjabi Mafia is said to control 60% of organized crime in India”.
Well, if you want to compare the most important overland trade route on earth for thousands of years to east Kentucky, I think I’d better decline the argument.
Right, and the Bosnian djihadists killed many more at least orthodox Serbians… and many moderate and peaceful Muslims, such as the FLN in Algeria in 1954- 1964 (internal cleaning the 2 last years) et the GIA in the 90’s.
“Multiculturalism, combined with mass immigration, increases GDP” ????
I would rather say: increases demand, threw social costs and welfare, i.e. public deficits; always the same model: privatization of benefits and socialization of costs ; they increase benefits and decrease GDP; part of welfare is nothing else but externalization of compensation costs by corporates: look https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/40-years-of-economic-policy-in-one-chart/
I wish there was a reasonable HBD / “alt-right” site to which I could link the influential people I know. I want these issues to succeed.
But Kevin MacDonald’s commenters call for putting Jews in concentration camps. And The Unz Review is significantly part of the same “anti-Jewish Studies” corner of the web.
In contrast, American Renaissance is ironically more moderate on some issues. For example, their White Renegade of the Year for 2014 was a very intelligent article on Bill Gates’ excesses:
That kind of feature would be less likely to appear on The Unz Review because it suggests that non-Jewish Whites play a primary role.
But normal Whites are psychologically balanced and self-reflective enough that they don’t go for cherry-picking and debit-ledgering. Anybody looks demonic if we create lists of only the debit side of the ledger. Without those biases, we’d be much better able to discourage and enlighten extremists like Barbara Spectre.
Non-orthodox Jews’ 71% intermarriage rate means in the younger generation there’s been a countless proliferation of part-Jews, like David Beckham, Ed Skrein (Game of Thrones), Jessica Biel, and Rosie Huntington-Whiteley (sources). That high intermarriage rate means that if we think of People with Jewish Ancestry as being full Jews like Mila Kunis or Richard Feynman, our ideas were formed in past generations and haven’t been updated.
Tag: Ron Unz
The Crafoord Prize is a science prize, not a political one. Lewontin was awarded the prize along with another scientist for their work on genetic polymorphism.
The Punjabis in India are about 97% Sikh and Hindu.
You should take it up with The Jerusalem Post:
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-white-response-to-haaretz-article/#ixzz3LIpmEt77
There were many factors involved, particularly pressure from officials in foreign affairs to eliminate discriminatory laws and policies (in order to gain influence among the emerging countries of the Third World). This was the case with Canada.
The post-colonial vacuum Russia and America tried to fill was part of the motivation for America’s 1965 immigration act. Diplomatically it was viewed as a propaganda tool to pull more of the 2nd World toward NATO and away from a Russia that was posturing everywhere as the savior of abused colonial peoples. Russia, of course, never allowed
I’m not sure though there was a deliberate plan by America’s elite to significantly alter the nation’s demographics with it; there were too many unkown factors at the time. For example how would the legislators know white America’s fertility rate would fall? In 1965 the white American birth rate (as well as Europe’s) was a healthy 2.4-2.5 and demographers expected Baby Boomers to produce their own baby boom. Hence all of the ‘expert’ handwringing about developed world overpopulation of the time. They also couldn’t have known about the effects of illegal immigration which wouldn’t begin until the mid 1970s. Or that the initial level of legal immigration would rise from a more manageable 300,000 from 1965-1975 (with a plurality of visas going to backlogged Italians up till 1975) and then be raised from 600,000 from 1975 to 1990, when America was still 80% white and not drastically different when we were 89% white.
And the New Deal coalition was not an really elite or WASP coalition.
Of course the New Deal coalition included different American voting blocks. Afterall, liberal WASPs were a minority of WASPs. They could hardly get into power on their own votes alone. But the Progressive movement leadership was heavily WASP. It was they gradually displaced Southern Democrats from the Democrat party beginning with Woodrow Wilson’ administration and ending with Roosevelt’s. Before WWII, the role of ethnic white immigrants was limited by progressives to low level grassroots organizing and voting. Elite ethnics in the Progressive movement such as the German Jew Boas or the Irish “Mother Jones” were normally from established groups that preceded the Great Wave.
I think the author overdoes his description of how hostile ethnic whites were towards conservative WASPs because those conservatives were on the way out. Before WWII liberal WASPs were defeating the conservative WASP majority left and right. After WWII there were precious few conservative Yankee Protestants for those Great Wave immigrants to politically struggle against. Murray Rothard, for one, recalled being surprised how few WASPs were involved in the early National Review of the 1950s.
Interestingly, the caricature of conservative Northern WASPs as greedy tycoons was invented by liberal WASPs in the late 19th and early 20th century who sought to discredit capitalism and pave the way for their brand of social engineering liberalism. That was the objective of the radical Upton Sinclair who penned The Jungle.
As one commenter noted, antiracism was originally a WASP phenomenon, and it was as WASP protégés that Jewish immigrants entered the antiracist movement.
After WWII all liberal elites descended from Great Wave immigrant white groups – from the Kennedys to Cuomos to Dukakis – were assimilated into progressive WASP politics.
Liberal WASPs arguably remained a plurality of our left up till the 1970s (The best ‘conservative’ WASPs could offer up as opposition were progressive Rockefeller Republicans such as John Lindsay, Gerald Ford, or John Chaffee).
The Great Society legislation was passed under a DC political elite that still included veterans of the Woodrow Wilson and FDR regimes. Jews were obviously very active in the Civil Rights movement but even the succcess of that movement depeneded on the support the rest of the gentile elite. From 1945 to 1966 only one Jew was a member of the Supreme Court. From 1966 to 1969 there were three Jews. from 1966 to 1994 there were no Jews on the Court. From 1994 to 2009 two of the four liberal Justices were WASPs (Souter and Stevens).
Earl Warren’s preference was to end segregation as early as 1955. He failed to do so because he was pressured to insert ‘with all deliberate speed’ into the Brown vs Board’s implementation rulings instead of ‘forthwith’. The former wording allowed the South to continue to legally resist desegregation for another decade.
I wish there was a reasonable HBD / “alt-right” site to which I could link the influential people I know.
For your information I will be opening a blog in the middle of this year. Whether it’s reasonable I’ll leave to the reader to decide. And for the record I am also half-Jewish.
@Bonafide
Selective pressures work over time.
For most of human history aggressive genes have had a great deal to do with who went to war.
.
@P. Frost
Bottom half.
The point I’m making is even if a person believes all else is equal – which the pro-immigration lobby does – then by importing immigrants mostly from the bottom half of the economic pile they shouldn’t be surprised if the 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants remain on the bottom half of the pile blaming their situation on discrimination and getting bitter and angry.
Similarly if a person believes all else is equal – which the pro-immigration lobby does – then given that most of the crime that results in prison is committed by blue collar males of a certain age then they shouldn’t be surprised if the prison population has become largely immigrant over the last 30 years.
I’m not saying there aren’t other factors as well just that the base line for the argument is skewed even without those factors.
There is no way Indonesia’s crime rate is that low. Religious violence on the part of muslims is widespread in Indonesia, and the country is very poor and backwards as a whole. It’s a country of close to 300 million people spread across countless islands and consisting of many ethnic groups. Much of the country was basically tribal until quite recently. The Philippines is very similar, with it’s history, economic status and sporting a large muslim population, and the country unsurprisingly has a very high crime rate- they registered a murder rate of 40-something/100k in the 80’s, comparable to african-americans.
To fit Indonesia, and the whole of southeast asia under your model of state formation is more than a little simplistic, especially considering just how much worse off the whole region is compared to east asia. It is highly unlikely as well that Indonesian immigrants to Denmark are representative, and it’s not unlikely they’re heavily chinese.
funny that nobody remarks the low IQ of Arabs, at about the same number as American Blacks…that is, 85. The other muzzies from assorted countries like Pakistan and even Iran, both at 84 in… IQ andGlobal Inequality, by Richard Lynn. Or Turkey’s at 90, and our Balkan countries that have been occupied by Turks for centuries…Croatia at 90, Greece at 92, Macedonia at 91 (no entry for Serbia) and so on.
I mean, call me a biological reductionist, but smarter people do much less crime in part cuz they can think about all kinds of reasons why maybe they should control their blood lust.
Now blood lust is real enough and I think the folks mentioned in this article probably do have more of it. Darwin talked about aboriginal peoples who fought over women and just about anything else as well. The baddest-ass got to spread his genes around….and this counts, particularly when repeated over and over down thru many generations. Also, assuming that intelligence is somewhat more on the side of Peace or Getting Along, then the dummer types corresponding to the more warlike types…just keep the whole thing from Evolving Upward
I also think the genetic pruning with regard to rice cultures vs. wheat cultures is very important. Also, wheat has twice the protein of rice. Protein eaters probably are badder, compared to rice eating weenies. I always talk about the rice growers as fully pruned to get along and be nice, that is, do what you are told. Collectivists…We Whites never were collectivized, except briefly in serfdom. We were individualist farmers on our own plots. Jeffersonian yeoman farmers…independent and don’t tread on me…
What I find weird here is that nobody brought up IQ. Is this Forbidden cuz it is straightforwardly racist? Should I be whipped?
Joe Webb
Islam in nothing but fear. Read my thesis on it at:
http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/
Here is the beginning.
Would you wear a T-shirt with a Mohammad cartoon printed on it?
You might in Montana. Don’t try it in Mecca.
Why?
Because, Islam trains a small number of its most devout believers it’s OK to kill. And Islamic killers have been trained to kill anyone who insults Allah and/or Mohammad.
In Montana you’d have a good chance none of these Islamic killers would see you.
In Mecca you wouldn’t last five minutes. One of Islam’s killers would come from out of nowhere and kill you. It is that simple.
You don’t believe me? Ask any Muslim!
The Silk Road was nowhere near Siberia or Mongolia. The high altitude of Tibet makes living there difficult. The Tibetans have a lot of genetic adaptions to high altitudes not possessed by Han Chinese.
The average IQ of Burma is in the high 80’s. If that were the average IQ of Koreans do you really not think that there would probably be a wealthy Chinese diaspora there?.
A thousand or so poor Chinese (mostly Hakka peasants) arrived in Jamaica to work as indenturd laborers in the sugar plantations in the late 19th century. By the time of the anti-Chinese riots (about 1960 or so I think) their descendents controlled about 98% of the retail establishments in Jamaica.
“Bill Gates’ [sic] excesses ”
Gates certainly can’t be called a white renegade. He is an absolutely conventional white gentile, who happens to be a super-billionaire. As he is a normal White who is psychologically balanced and self-reflective enough to not have biases, it won’t fly to say he consciously chose to turn away from his people’s interests. It is not normal for regular whites like Gates to identify with whites as such (that is racially). People have to turn away from the group they have been socialised into identifying with before they can identify with other whites as such.
Why does anyone think that it comes naturally for whites to identify with other whites? No, Gates is just doing what comes naturally in identifying with a symbolic group and defending its members. And that group is not whites as such.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Bombay_bombings
Muslim gangsters in a Hindu state
It surprises me that Ron Unz has not given you the right to ban idiots. He has given it to Razib Khan and his comment section is far more readable because of it. I have better things to do than read through 128 comments to find the 10 or so that contribute to your column. You have better things to do than spend hours a day reading and responding to the average commentator (I would hope).
It certainly appears that Unz Review is growing rapidly because it is collecting a really strong group of columnists. I appreciate the fact that you are a polite and considerate person that has a hard time banning anybody. But becoming a popular place on the internet has it’s downside. Give people one warning and then if they continue spouting nonsense, ban them. You can be a nice guy in your regular life but when it comes to moderating comments on an internet blog I strongly suggest you hold a pen in one hand and a weed wacker in the other. 🙂
Jim, that is totally inaccurate. Look at a map of the Silk Road. Include “Inner Mongolia” as part of Mongolia, which it is, and you’ll see that Mongols could have practically hit the Silk Road with their arrows (actually, they did — many times).
Sure, that’s true. But it wouldn’t stop the Chinese from dominating the mid-elevation towns where the Tibetans traded their goods for rice and iron. And as a matter of fact they did not, as a rule, dominate that trade. On the northern part of Tibetan territory, where it abuts the Silk Road, it was largely Turks/Altaics who dealt with Tibetans. I’ve been to some of those towns myself — one named Linxia stands out in my memory as the first place I ever heard the Muslim call to prayer at dawn. Never would have guessed there were so many Muslim Turkish settlements that far east if I hadn’t seen it myself.
Like I said, Lanzhou is pretty much where Chinese economic dominance ended (and it was often tenuous there), and it’s a lot closer to the center of Chinese civilization than Indonesia, or Burma for that matter. Past Lanzhou Chinese settlements were always dependent on an imperial garrison.
There might be Chinese there, but they would be more along the lines of the Chinese who currently reside in what was known until 1945 as Manchukuo (Manchuria), and those who now live in Inner Mongolia. That is, they wouldn’t be wealthy, and they’d be there because of military conquest — not as generally peaceful people engaged in commerce as they are throughout SE Asia.
They must have been really poor if they could only make it to Jamaica. Maybe they were some of the losers in the largely Hakka Taiping Rebellion. Actually, I bet they were. The emperor probably sent them to Jamaica as punishment, and let his loyal subjects go to California.
Too bad for the Jamaicans that they chased out their Chinese — I have no doubt that they contributed to the prosperity of the island and caused little to no trouble for the blacks.
But again, NE Asia is different from these tropical places. The people there – incuding the ones with considerably lower measured IQ than Chinese – can be really, really scary when they mobilize. Imagine Sitting Bull attacking the US Army not with a few hundred men, but a thousand times that, and with the latest model weaponry. They make the Jamaicans seem like a bunch of disorganized, stoned rastas in comparison. Which, well, you get my point…
People like Gates are surrounded by a moat of sycophants that have totally insulated them from the reality of what is being done to the rest of society. Those sycophants are capable of amazing feats of mind control the likes of which Steve Jobs, with his famous reality distortion field, would be most envious.
Philanthropy is about little more than social status and social status is pretty much limited to that which appeals to young women as morally superior. That which appeals to young women as morally superior is determined by the competition for females. The competition for females is not direct. In large measure it is competition for control of females rather than mating with them directly: Intermediating sex.
Currently this is done in our societies by maintaining stables for females such as middle management, the arts (Hollywood being the most prominent example) and academia (where females just out of high school are put under their authority and indoctrinated).
Gates, for all his wealth, is reduced to trying to suck up to that which is deemed morally superior in this stables to maintain any status.
“The average IQ of Burma is in the high 80′s. If that were the average IQ of Koreans do you really not think that there would probably be a wealthy Chinese diaspora there?.”
Doubtful. See: http://humanvarieties.org/2014/06/06/hvgiq-burma/
That’s why they don’t expel more black thugs from state schools.
Most Punjabis in India are Sikh or Hindu. About 97% of them. Most Punjabi Indian gangsters in India and elsewhere are Sikh or Hindu:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Canadian_organized_crime
“The Crafoord Prize is a science prize, not a political one.”
Read Bruno Latour. Or read my quotes of him at the above link
“social status is pretty much limited to that which appeals to young women as morally superior”
By my way of thinking, humans have a propensity to identify with a symbolic group and defend its members, irrespective of the consequences. A group in which a man’ achieved high status through smooth talking or indoctrinating maidens would be quickly overwhelmed by groups in which a man got everything he wanted by being thought a hero.
There is something in what you say. Women are disproportionately influential in some odd things like the currently triumphant anti-nuclear movement in Germany, which obviously originated in a deep generations-old fear of NATO Soviet thermonuclear war being fought on German soil. But, women are also the ones who, in their own way, keep groups going. In the minds of most whites, whites helping whites as such is now as nuclear power is to the Germans, associated with catastrophic conflict. Women are certainly prominent in that.
The Progressive movement, like the New Deal coalition which it developed into, was a heterogeneous, anti-majority, minority coalition, not an elite or WASP coalition. See The Fatal Embrace by Benjamin Ginsberg:
While the WASP majority and elite were fighting a rearguard action against demographic and elite displacement:
“It surprises me that Ron Unz has not given you the right to ban idiots.”
I now have that right. To date, I’ve trashed 9 comments and edited one. I hope to semi-automate the process so that some commenters can post their comments without moderation.
I agree with everything you say. Intelligent comments add value to a column, but trashy ones have the opposite effect. People are not going to wade through a lot of foul-mouthed talk to read a few diamonds in the rough.
I used to wonder about some commenters who would bitterly complain about Steve Sailer’s “Komment Kontrol.” What sort of stuff could he possibly be deleting? Well, now I know.
It perhaps depends on where in Burma they mainly took the data. Many people in the northern part of Burma share the same bloodline with some of China’s minorities in the Yunan Province – many of these “minorities” however, are heavily Hanized. To some extend similar happened to Northern Vietnam , and other East and SE Asian lands as well such as Korea, Japan and Thailand.
—————————————
Both @Jim and @Bill P are largely correct in my view.
I think that Jim’s assumption ( indeed the result of the current IQ tests actually) that the Han Chinese , the Korean (and the Japanese as well for that matter) have almost the same IQ level could prove to be less accurate in the future as the quality of IQ test improves. My impression is that the current IQ test is not very accurate enough on both the very high end and very low end, the 2 fat tails, because it lacks measuring some dimentions of the intelligence, even though in general the test does fit generations of observations more or less…we’ll see.
One thing that China has done throughout the history is quite remarkable though, that the central govenments have meticulously recorded most China’s past, hence they naturally did with the origin of Korea. Now, many Korean Nationalists would probablely go ballistic when they read the following, but it’s well documented in Chinese history that the First Emperor of China, Qin Shihungdi, did set up 2 counties offcially there (i.e. today’s Korea) for the very first time in history 2,000 years ago, populated by the (Han) Chinese at a time. Guess what, one of these 2 counties is more or less still the capital city of the North Korea today. Those Chinese have later inbred with some tribal folks in the region, together with many Chinese later on moving to the region escaping from imperial China’s civil wars at turns of dynasties, becoming part of ethnic Koreans today – I wonder if modern DNA tests could also show this part of history. Very similar thing also happened to the Northern part of Vietnam btw.
At a terrible price—high rates of capital punishment, stigmatization and social exclusion of violent males—we have won the right to live in a social environment
So we should restrict capital punishment to Moslem offenders; embarrass and shame Moslems in the streets as uncivilized; and allow both public and private discrimination against Moslems until they evolve to our level?
But then you reject Nuke Mecca which would both slay (that is, prevent from breeding many of the most violent) and demonstrate resolve against Moslem violence.
I’m confused. If Moslems are to evolve, and evolution requires the better traits (that is, those like ourselves) win the breeding competition, and death is the most certain way to lose the breeding competition, why isn’t the West warring against Islam?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era
If you are going to allow off-topic comments (I would prefer you didn’t) maybe you could lobby Unz to allow you to somehow highlight comments that you think make good contributions, whether adding good points, asking good (pertinent) questions, or providing good criticisms. An “Author’s picks” feature. Just a thought. Though perhaps this would get people miffed or disappointed that their comment wasn’t picked?
Yes, that is an excellent idea. A lot of people feel free to give multiple ‘comments’ that are as long as the post, often when they find some supporting detail in the post they object to, and they get to hijack the post with a thread of their own as they become progressively more tangential to what the post is about and others don’t want to let things go unanswered.
“One reason is that the role of Muslims in violent crime is acknowledged only in high-profile cases that involve radical Islamists. Almost all other cases involve “youths.””
A second reason is that Europeans have a long history of viewing human conflicts in ideological terms, from the Crusades to the Cold War. To be sure, even those conflicts had other motives, and the developing one in Western Europe seems to be a classic struggle over territory, with one side gradually displacing the other. The real ideological conflict is between those who see what is happening and those who don’t.”
That is the essential point made in the post, so let’s have some comments about it.
“I’m confused. If Moslems are to evolve, and evolution requires the better traits (that is, those like ourselves) win the breeding competition, and death is the most certain way to lose the breeding competition, why isn’t the West warring against Islam?”
It would be a lot simpler just to stop immigration and deport immigrants who commit serious offences. That would be not only less barbaric, but also legal.
This is my problem with anti-jihadists. They ignore the simplest solution and focus on fantasist solutions that would lead to much more misery and bloodshed. Another thing: the problem is not just with Muslims. It’s with all immigrants who come from societies where the State has only recently monopolized the legitimate use of violence. Certain non-Muslim immigrant groups show rates of personal violence similar to those of North Africans in France. Conversely, certain Muslim immigrant groups show comparatively low rates of personal violence, e.g., Indonesians. I suspect the same is true for Bangladeshis and other Muslim groups. Different human populations have followed different trajectories of genetic pacification.
Flawed analysis leads to flawed responses. I understand why many people, like you, turn to anti-jihadism, but the result will be never-ending military interventions in the Middle East “to get to the root of the problem.” The Middle East is not the problem. I’m frankly suspicious of claims that the Charlie Hebdo attack had been masterminded by Islamists based in Yemen. There is no reason why it couldn’t have been planned and organized entirely in France by French-born Muslims.
As Bill P noted above, hyper-ethnicized Jews like Hila Hershkoviz are a minority.
Most Jewish-Americans marry Gentiles. Only 20% of intermarried Jewish-Americans raise their children Jewish by religion.
Case in point, the People with Jewish Ancestry I listed above are paired with non-Jewish Whites:
-David Beckham married Victoria Beckham
-Rosie Huntington-Whiteley is in a relationship with Jason Statham
-Mila Kunis is engaged to and has a kid with Ashton Kutcher
-Jessica Biel married Justin Timberlake
This issue affects everybody because saving the West will be far easier if we have on our side People with Jewish Ancestry and people who like them (most of the White race).
Marine Le Pen is proving that “detoxifying” the Front National is more effective than being a curmudgeon like her father:
Maybe for following posts, can you research how and why the Anglo-Saxons became such push-overs? The British built an empire that the sun never set on and now, in America and in England, they are being marginalized and becoming a minority. Has Political Correctness pussified the Anglo-Saxon? Does the Anglo-Saxon have any manliness left in him? Is Christianity fundamentally effeminizing?
But that part of the Silk Road was poor, remote and dangerous. You mention Mongols actually attacking the caravans. There’s not the kind of place that people would go to for economic opportunity.
The Chinese arriving in Jamaica were extremally poor. Even after finishing their period of indentured labor in the sugarcane plantations they were subject to discriminatory laws restricting their economic rights down to the twenties I believe. Nevertheless they eventually rose to a position of economic success and educational/professional attainment exceeding even the Jamaican whites.
Of course the extent to which Central and Northeastern Asia contained very formidable and ofter hostile barbarian peoples no doubt discouraged Chinese immigration to those areas.
Sixty years ago London was almost entirely indigenous, now it is over half immigrant. The flow of the indigenous may in future be out of the country, see here.
To be sure, even those conflicts had other motives, and the developing one in Western Europe seems to be a classic struggle over territory, with one side gradually displacing the other. The real ideological conflict is between those who see what is happening and those who don’t
Native French under Attack in Muslim Areas “And it’s like that because these parts of the country are in the hands of drugs traffickers, gangs and imams”. Interesting that the drugs traffickers and gangs are mentioned so prominently as the problem.
You think it’s all about ideology and a different ideology can save us. Two can play at that game; do you not understand Muslims can alter and appear unthreatening to liberals, just as the FN have. And immigrants, many of whom are not religious at all, are happy to intermarry and impregnate, or just have girlfriends. Which they are doing, a lot.
“Zemmour lamented that the ‘white proletariat’ is ‘helpless before the ostentatious virility of their black and Arab competitors seducing numerous young white women’.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPKBXMUGJNA
Video Link
Zemmour VS Marine le Pen, look at 15 minutes on.
French Philosopher Finkielkraut in Der Spiegel.
“Finkielkraut: This disturbs me, of course. But the National Front would not be continuously on the rise if it had not discarded the old issues of the extreme right. Nowadays the National Front focuses on secularism and the republic.
SPIEGEL: That sounds as if you could imagine voting for the party.
Finkielkraut: No, I would never do that because this party appeals to people’s base instincts and hatred. And these are easy to kindle among its supporters. We can’t leave these issues to the National Front.”
The FN is not going to get votes from anyone but the hapless proletariat. Thilo Sarrazin says Germany is all that is propping up French banks. Germany would not do that with the FN in the government. So the people that matter will make sure the FN never gets into power.
Alternatively, immigrants are disproportionately young males and congregate in enclaves where they very rapidly become a majority of the young males in that area and the ensuing gang violence decides who gets to reproduce with who. In other words there are effectively thousands of mini Darfurs in hundreds of cities all over the Western world.
The White proletariat is helpless against a media that lies about what is happening.
There certainly is an attempt to steer the Front National in a more neo-conservative direction:
The rise of Eric Zemmour and the case of France
Apparently her father Jean-Marie, who founded the Front National and remains its president-for-life, has some suspicions regarding the official story of the French terror attacks:
“Paris attacks: Jean-Marie Le Pen says French terror attacks were work of Western intelligence”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-jeanmarie-le-pen-says-french-terror-attacks-were-work-of-western-intelligence-9985047.html
It’s been a little while since I read Malloy’s post on Burma, but that post should be read in conjunction with other posts on southeast asia, that scores in that region are quite variable and difficult to parse from possible chinese ancestry. I think it is possible the IQ of southeast asians is generally in the mid to high 90’s. Vietnam is very likely 100.
To chime in on this discussion of east asian IQ, I do not think it is very likely their IQ is anywhere near as high as what many people seem to believe. I have no doubt Korea, Taiwan, Japan are atleast 100 and possibly up to 103, but 105-107, I don’t think so. China and it’s gigantic rural population make that even more unlikely, though I doubt the country, collectively, would be any lower than the high 90’s. There’s a weird insistence in these circles on trying to act as if the tiny diaspora populations of asians are representative of their home countries (this is especially the case for chinese americans, who are heavily from Hong Kong and Taiwan) and two of the biggest historic promulgators of this, Lynn and Rushton, are to large degrees asiaphiles.
Also, I still await Frost’s reply on things like Indonesia’s crime rate and how it’s history could genuinely be tied as similar to east asia.
Ah, but that’s only if you’re thinking like Chinese. If, on the other hand you’re a Mongol, viking or Arab raider, great rewards are worth great risks. Why patiently farm the land and start with small businesses when you could go for glory?
Chinese are a patient, long-suffering people willing to delay gratification for future rewards. This is what Peter Frost is getting at when he’s drawing distinctions between peoples. He says that it isn’t only cultural, but over time becomes genetic, so that the children of Chinese could be expected to exhibit more “civilized” traits than, say, Chechens even if they are raised in the same environment. From personal observation, I’d say he’s on to something.
Yes, that’s exactly my point, and that’s why I don’t think Korean IQ was the most important factor in limiting Chinese expansion into the Korean peninsula. Rather, it was the very menacing environment that existed on the northern frontier right up to the 20th century. Of course, there’s probably a cognitive ability threshold for being able to organize well enough to pose a credible threat, but it’s a far cry from Korean scores.
Koreans are an interesting case in that they have elements of both civilized rice farmers and barbarian tribesmen, retaining to this day some archaic leftover cultural traits like Shamanism and possibly some psychological characteristics as well, if the unusually high number of Korean spree killers is any indication.
Members of gangs get more of their fair share of girls by intimidating the competition, sure; but don’t forget the immigrants are from populations with polygynous mating system, where the selection would favour traits in males that win women’s hearts.
I brought up Zemmour because he seems to be an example of what Southfarthing was talking about as a key advance “This issue affects everybody because saving the West will be far easier if we have on our side People with Jewish Ancestry and people who like them (most of the White race).” But the fact is the part of the elite that is Jewish is never going to tolerate the FN.
Finkielkraut ( and even Zemmour though he is regarded as extreme) are complaining about anti-Semitism in the immigrant population; that population is inexorably growing. But they are just a part of the elite, and don’t determine things. Most members of the elite (Jewish or otherwise) will never ally with an indigenous party like the FN to defeat immigrant anti-Semitism, because it is an article of faith among white gentile intellectuals and the white gentiles who are the mass of the elite that anti-Semitism originated in Europe, and just came home. The white gentile intelligentsia think if immigrant communities are anti-Semitic that is the fault of Europe which was the font and origin and site of the worst examples of anti-Semitism, and racism. So the indigenous, not the immigrant communities, are always to blame. And it is the indigenous intellectual elite who are saying that.
Was Jean-Marie Le Pen’s killer Doberman ripping Marine’s pet cat to pieces a couple of months ago also a false flag operation?
You can’t really draw on community violence against perceived threats for determining crime rates. Sure there have been bloodbaths in Indonesia (like the mass elimination of suspected Communists actually directed by the authorities in many cases). Those killings were crimes under international law, but they were not what is normally meant by crime: “enjoyment of being with other “youths” and proving their manhood through thefts, assaults, and home invasions.”
I think HRB (How Recently Barbarian) has a lot of universal predictive value.
The West’s greatest achievements were after they’d been Christians for eons.
Recall crusaders, conquistadors, and the frontiersmen who tamed North America, Australia, and South Africa.
(BTW, I was raised Christian, and my primary heritage has always been from my Anglo-Saxon side. And European Jews have 50% Christian ancestry, even if some don’t realize it.)
The “tolerant” Muslims of Indonesia conducted mass pogroms against their Chinese Christian minority in the late 90s and early 2000s. Hundreds of churches were burned and thousands of Chinese were killed. Strange how this has all fallen down the memory hole.
I just read the comments from “Down with CIA Pimps”, “Stone Garden”, KA and 911. I’ve never seen such a seemingly coordinated attack from the same perspective on Peter’s blog before. Can it be possible that an offshoot George Soros’s foundation is now astroturfing the comment sections on Unz.com? Cool! https://www.unz.com must be making a huge splash!
In any case, Peter, you must be striking someone’s nerve somewhere. Keep up the great work!
That’s great to hear.
All of my influential friends are nice people. They have temperaments similar to Bill Gates.
It has more impact to convert them than to convert curmudgeons.
“Community violence against perceived threats”- that could mean many things, including a community that’s prone to paranoia, hysteria, mob, mentality and violence in general. You don’t think that’s indicative of crime rates? Have you heard of the phenomenon of necklacing in South Africa, which is even directed at other black immigrants?
Yes, there have been bloodbaths in Indonesia, but, as Seer mentions, they have been mass pogroms against the chinese and christians, and, atleast against christians, those continue to this day, in the form of church burnings and more. They were not just the “the mass elimination of suspected Communists actually directed by the authorities in many cases” which were not classifiable as typical crime. You’re clearly trying to sanitize violence in Indonesia, and while I could speculate why, you don’t have much ground to stand on.
Again, in face of what is known about Indonesia’s economy, living standards and much more, including it’s similarities to the Philippines, there is absolutely no reason to believe those crime statistics, and I await Peter’s reasons for why they should be believed. This is probably the first time I’ve ever seen anybody earnestly argue that Indonesia has a low crime rate and the well known church burnings aren’t worth making over.
Late nineteenth century East Asian emigration to places like the US and Jamaica consisted of extremely poor people not Mandarin scholars. But the educational/economic level of their descendents is well above average for these countries. I read on Cochran’s blog that the Chinese emigration to Malaysia largely consisted of poor Chinese who came to work in the tin mines. Now the Malaysian economy is dominated by ethnic Chinese despite strong discrimination against them on the part of the Malaysian government.
It seems more likely to me that the Chinese diaspora is largely descended from Chinese who were in the lower part of the socio-economic heirarchy. Why would individuals who were successful in China have moved to Malaysia to work in tin mines or to California to do manual labor building railroads?
Interesting in this regard is the case of Japanese-Brazilians who are very high achieving in Brazil. In recent years some have emigrated back to Japan where they have been something of a lagging problem group. So a group achieving high status in Brazil has trouble keeping up with Sato-san back in Japan.
“Interesting in this regard is the case of Japanese-Brazilians who are very high achieving in Brazil. In recent years some have emigrated back to Japan where they have been something of a lagging problem group. So a group achieving high status in Brazil has trouble keeping up with Sato-san back in Japan.”
A lot of the Japanese Brazilians living in Japan are Mixed Race and not 100 percent Japanese. A lot of them are Euroasian or Blasian.
Many Japanese Brazilians are so Mixed Race that they no longer have the typical Oriental features like very small slanted eyes.
Wholesale community violence that is not stamped out by the government is in effect authorised by them. So for a specific purpose the people act as the auxiliaries of the government security forces to take out communists or sectarians. Criminal violence is not the same thing at all.
China has long been a very, very large place with dramatic income inequality. On that alone, it should not be surprising that subsets of the peasantry of a country numbering in the hundreds of millions should end up doing well. Nonetheless, there’s a few things worth noting when you bring up the US, in that the majority of chinese-americans are not the descendants of 19th century immigrants, and that the japanese-american population, before the 1965 immigration act, had an IQ of 98, as noted by James Flynn in his early 90′s work on asian-americans, and that they also achieved well out of proportion as to what should be expected by their IQ using white norms.
Jason Malloy also found this in regards to Lynn’s work on China: http://humanvarieties.org/2014/06/06/hvgiq-burma/comment-page-1/#comment-3390
“A long time ago I checked through his China references and almost none of them even contained IQ data! It was totally baffling. I have 100s of Chinese studies, many of them in Chinese. I would love to start working on the China post, but it would be a crazy amount of work, and I would probably need a good Chinese collaborator.
You are right, though. I have not carefully examined them, but many studies from rural China report IQ scores in the 90s, 80s and lower.”
We could also discuss how rampant cheating is in China, South Korea, and their diaspora populations.
Or, it could mean that the government is too ineffectual to prevent it. Their control over the area might not be strong enough. They might not have enough resources to do so. Local leaders might hold more sway. Why the central government fails to prevent wholesale community violence could mean a variety of things. I don’t understand why you keep talking about communists (and now sectarians) when people have been bringing up christians and chinese. Even if it was communists, is mob violence a healthy, rational way to react to such things? Or is it just targeted at them alone and communists are an absolute threat? That’s clearly not the case if we look at mob violence in Indonesia. Often times, the behavior of a national government can be seen as an extension of the people, and a people who are prone to mob violence might produce a government that is unstable, authoritarian etc. So yes, criminal violence is strongly related to this.
In my previous comment, I said I could speculate why you’re trying to sanitize violence in Indonesia, and I think it’s because Frost argued so and you just want to substantiate it. The idea that Indonesia is not a very crime-ridden place is a very strange idea that I don’t think holds any water.
“Several authors besides Kuhn have adopted that idea to explain the
proliferation of jargon as being something that markedly improves
the efficiency of communication between practitioners who do, in
fact, share a paradigm, who share a set of techniques, trainings,
and world view in common.” http://geer.tinho.net/geer.nsf.6i15.txt
They’re smart so they think they can get away with anything and they camouflage their crimes with jargon.
“If you’ve ever read a hardboiled detective story, you may have come across a sentence like,
“I jammed the roscoe in his button and said, ‘Close your yap, bo, or I squirt metal.’”
Something like this isn’t too hard to decipher. But what if you encounter,
“The flim-flammer jumped in the flivver and faded.”
“You dumb mug, get your mitts off the marbles before I stuff that mud-pipe down your mush—and tell your moll to hand over the mazuma.”
“The sucker with the schnozzle poured a slug but before he could scram out two shamuses showed him the shiv and said they could send him over.”
You may need to translate this into normal English just to be able to follow the plot.”
“Or maybe you want to seem tougher. Why get in a car when you can hop in a boiler? Why tell someone to shut up when you can tell them to close their head? Why threaten to discharge a firearm when you can say, “Dust, pal, or I pump lead!””
https://www.miskatonic.org/slang.html
And, soon, they will be citing this over representation in prison as “proof” of racism,
as blacks do in the US, instead of any inherent flaw.
I’ve read this article and I’ve remembered what happened in my province, Almería, in Spain, 17 years ago. In short, two Arabs killed three people in two weeks. As a result, local population started to riot, attacking immigrants, their shops and houses. Of course, all the media called them “racist” and “xenophobic”. When Arabs do the same in France, Sweden or anywhere else in Europe it is the europeans’ fault because of racism, xenophobia, unemployment, lack of opportunities and blah, blah… What do you think about it? Here you have the links of a video (in Spanish) and the article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/635092.stm