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timeasmymeasureLucy Liu has been cast as Joan Watson in Elementary, a CBS revamp of Sherlock Holmes.
Fandom (you can guess which part), proceeds to lose its shit over the loss of gay subtext:
(BTW, these quotes are just a sampling of so much wrongness on the internet and they get no links because assholes in my fandom you gets no love)
Your ass is showing!
Meanwhile the rarer and more awesome parts of fandom have been dreamcasting their own topdown genderswap (Indira Varma as Sherlock, Ruth Wilson as Moriarty, Gina Bellman as Mycroft, Gina Torres as Sherlock, Sanaa Lathan as Lestrade, Archie Punjabi as Sherlock!) and I'm going to go hang out with them now.
Fandom (you can guess which part), proceeds to lose its shit over the loss of gay subtext:
(BTW, these quotes are just a sampling of so much wrongness on the internet and they get no links because assholes in my fandom you gets no love)
Yeah to me it just screams “TRYING TO CASH IN ON ROMANCE BUT AVOID THE GAY” But I could be wrong - genderbending is interesting but they should have done both or none to me
I do not agree with this decision. For me, the whole point of anything Sherlock Holmes is the bromance between Sherlock and John. I no longer have any reason to want to watch Elementary because they took that away.
I like Lucy Liu, and I’m pleased they’re casting a WOC as Watson because TV NEVER does that, but I’m worried they’re just doing this so they can slap them together while avoiding homoeroticism or, heaven forbid, gay people.
I don’t really know her acting style. I can’t judge her that way. But I still don’t like her being cast as John Watson. Know why? Because Watson is a male character. Watson was originally written as a male character. I know this is a modern adaptation but if we can’t even keep the characters their original gender, I can’t help but speculate other changes they might make. I already don’t like this change because this is outside the boundary of ‘artistic license.’ She is in no way British. The show isn’t even set in London. Sorry if I seem like a Sherlock purist but that’s how it was written and that’s what it should be based on. The only thing these directors are keeping is the name of the characters, thus far. I won’t be watching this show, even if it lasts.
I’m happy that CBS is actually considering a major role for Lucy, but I can’t help but feel that they’re just changing John’s gender so they can turn this into a mystery-romance? Is America such a homophobic country that they aren’t willing to let slip even the slightest hint towards the friendship John and Sherlock have?Because as you well know, mainstream TV definitely avoids bromances. It's not like White Collar or Psych or Breaking Bad or Boston Legal or House or Hawaii 5-0 or Supernatural (actual brothers but constantly slashed!) or Suits or... wait.
Your ass is showing!
Meanwhile the rarer and more awesome parts of fandom have been dreamcasting their own topdown genderswap (Indira Varma as Sherlock, Ruth Wilson as Moriarty, Gina Bellman as Mycroft, Gina Torres as Sherlock, Sanaa Lathan as Lestrade, Archie Punjabi as Sherlock!) and I'm going to go hang out with them now.
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Date: 2012-02-28 03:47 am (UTC)Fuck yes for Lucy getting that role, end of.
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Date: 2012-02-28 04:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-28 04:13 am (UTC)(Yeah, because omg girl cooties. Can they just not be glad that a non-white actress gets a meaty part?)
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Date: 2012-02-28 05:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-28 04:36 am (UTC)Bromance? Explicit romance? Either would be fine by me. Collegial sibling-like affection? Absofrickinlutely. But I do fear a relentless exchange of innuendo and what's meant to be intellectual flirtatious badinage that just... no. It's old and tiresome in the dozen other shows it happens in.
I'm also not keen on Lucy Liu in the role, but that's just my personal issues with the actor.
Topdown gender/race/both swap? Yes, please. I could get all up in that.
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Date: 2012-02-28 05:12 am (UTC)I know I can't even begin to hope for a well done relationship there, but I still have to root for Liu's casting. I dream of non-romantic watson/holmes where they are both ride or die for each other and Joan develops a life outside of Sherlock. I don't need another Castle, certainly.
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Date: 2012-02-28 12:11 pm (UTC)I think the makers of "Elementary" are also distancing themselves from Moffat's hostility at suggestions of homoromantic feelings between his Sherlock and John by just making that impossible. (What I meant by "political.")
I've been trying, desperately, to think of any series with a pairing of a man and woman, both hetero-attracted, working in a close partnership with only one another, that didn't go down the sexual tension route. I have a sieve-like memory, to be sure, but I can't think of one.
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Date: 2012-02-28 10:47 pm (UTC)I find it hard to swallow that argument; so much of TV is based on homoerotic subtext that have been termed bromances. Producers bank on this. Maybe the american bromance version might not have made such an explicit "no homo" reference in every episode like Sherlock but would still be clear that these are macho het men.
*eyes my comment*
My rambles are not cogent, beg pardon.
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Date: 2012-02-28 05:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 08:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-28 08:29 am (UTC)And yes, I love reading slash stories, but I love more watching awesome women on the screen >:/
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Date: 2012-02-29 09:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 09:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-28 09:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 09:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-28 12:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 09:03 am (UTC)I don't mind subtext, I just mind when fandom uses that as an example of "queer" canonish characterization. Play with the subtext all you want (and goddess knows I do) but don't forget that there is still a dearth of canonically queer characters who aren't written problematically!
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Date: 2012-02-28 02:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 09:07 am (UTC)So basically, they did it wrong. For Elementary I want a BFF relationship that is based on mutual respect and admiration that isn't caught up in how Joan Watson has sexual tension with Sherlock.
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Date: 2012-02-29 01:52 pm (UTC)They cast Lucy Liu as Watson. And I don't want there to be Beckett/Castle or Bones/Booth-like UST or shipping, but they're probably going to do it anyway. Clearly, shipping works. But. I'll take what I can get and hope for the best. Because some of their casting was not in the expected mold, and we have a woman of color in one of the lead roles.
Tl;dr way of saying: I agree!
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Date: 2012-02-28 02:28 pm (UTC)*cracks up* Oh, really? Yes, American television, shame on you for always shying away from showing male friendships, where they bond and will do everything for each other and are constantly treated as the most important element. Clearly they need to learn from BBC's Sherlock, not change it. Because yes, they are clearly being totally super duper homophobic, not to mention avoiding making a carbon copy of the exact same show already available to people is totally unoriginal.
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Date: 2012-02-29 09:09 am (UTC)My sarcasm quota has obviously not been filled.
Oh god this is so long, forgive the teal deer
Date: 2012-02-29 07:31 am (UTC)That said, I'm pretty sure the rest of the objection to Lucy's casting is flat-out racism with a dash of misogyny. I haven't really checked out fandom outside of tumblr, but people there are either a) complaining about how casting a WOC is pandering to the PC crowd, or b) complaining that it's against the spirit of the source canon. Because obviously in a world where Holmes and Watson have, in various incarnations, dealt with dinosaurs, magic, time travel, being mice, occasionally being robots, and once (gasp!) both being (white) women, in time periods ranging from the Victorian era to the 2100s, casting Watson as a Chinese-American woman is the absolute worst.
There are a lot of ways CBS could fuck this up. They probably are going to fuck it up! But I am so thrilled for this adaptation it'll have to be truly awful for me to stop watching. (Anyway, I like my canons with flaws so I can fix them!)
Also, I am praying for some Joan Watson/Mary Morstan. (And a Georgia Lestrade. And a Jaimie Moriarty.) I'm already writing fic in my head, because let's slash Lucy Liu with alllll the girls.
Re: Oh god this is so long, forgive the teal deer
Date: 2012-02-29 09:13 am (UTC)(I'm a child.)
Anyway, I'm pretty sure CBS is gonna fuck it up. I literally have no doubt about it. HOWEVER! Lucy Liu is Joan Watson. My nitpick is that I wish they'd make her a veteran as well.
I'm partial to Georgiana Lestrade (mostly because I've been reading genderbend Mycroft/Lestrade fic and the way Mycroft says Lestrade's first name in fanon is totes a valid kink now).
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Date: 2019-03-05 10:59 pm (UTC)