Microsoft offers to PAY YOU to trade in your old computer for a Windows 10 device Microsoft has, for a limited period only, offered to pay up to £100 to convince UK consumers to part with their old computers in exchange for a Windows 10 device. If a customer is willing to shell out at least £499 on a PC running Redmond's latest operating system, then the company said it would stump up £100 to encourage …
As long as I had basic PSN Store Access + Game Updates, which usually tended to be free anyway. Then thats more then enough for me. I don't do online BS Gaming sans Gran Turismo, but that's just for the single player events. I don't know how S0NY plan on addressing that for GT7, but if just being able to play that like I have & had with GT6 & GT5. Then S0NY can graciously shove it where the Sun don't shine.
"subscription fee for Windows cannot be eliminated as a possibility somewhere down the road"
Neither can Linux. You're making assumptions based on faulty data. One where Microsoft sees consumer desktop OS sales as part of it's revenue stream. It doesn't and it's debatable if it really ever has - and if it chooses to going forwards there is competition out there for people who don't want it.
Neither can Linux.
Linux is licensed so that it can not be non-free. Simple as that.
There are distros that require a support fee; Red Hat is one. Fair enough; support costs money, and if you don't care for support, then use another one. Also, don't confuse a distro with 'Linux'
Terry Myerson, Microsoft's Executive Vice President of Operating Systems, said "Windows 10 changes the rules of the game and redefines the relationship between us and our customers". In his blog, Myerson goes on to say "with Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time. We’ll deliver new features when they’re ready, not waiting for the next major release. We think of Windows as a Service".
And you expect these "new features" will be free to the user? That your base W10 install from today will keep running the latest and greatest software if you don't install these features? Features you'll have to pay for because, you know, they've cost money to develop and deploy; features you haven't paid for through your W7 or W8 license? That you can disable the telemetry hoohah without your system karking sooner or later, unless you pay for the option? The shareholders want a steady and predictable flow of money into Microsoft's coffers, so MS has to get money out of you not just once, but periodically. Maybe the consumer Windows stuff will be last to change to this model, but everything else is changing, or has changed.
You're free to suffer the redefined relationship between Microsoft and their customers victims. Mine ended twenty years ago, and good riddance.
There is also "advertising" which has been mentioned on these august pages but not discussed much. I read of several people finding that the "games" packaged in Win10 have ads. Want to get rid of the ads, pay a monthly bribe...err.. stipend.
People can scream all they want about Win10, etc. being "free!!!!" but ain't no such thing as a free lunch... TANSTAFL. They are a corporation with dollar signs for eyes and they will extract their pound of cash one way or the other. The problem is, they haven't told how they will extract that. The insight is in 3rd party SaS which boils down to ads, subscription, or a combination of those.
It sure does change the relationship between M$ and it's customers. M$ has taken on the role of the proctologists and the customer is bent over waiting to get probed each and every time they use a windows 10 computer or they interact with anyone else using a windows 10 computer. They quite simply are desperate to get enough numbers out there to try a fend off a block on their windows 10 botnet.
@ Stoneshop
No, nope. The price for an upgrade copy of Windows 10 is $0.00 USD. This is for a PERPETUAL license. A year from now they will raise the upgrade's price to probably something like $89.00 USD. Neither price, the 0.00 nor the 89.00 is a subscription price. They are one time prices on a perpetual license, not for a subscription. So, it's just a matter of timing: earlier adopters simply pay less for their perpetual license than people who decide to upgrade a year from now.
Where does Microsoft make its money here? Well, there's a price for Windows 10 on all new systems right now already, hidden in the price of the new computer; there are secondary purchases, e.g. when someone buys a license to Office, or a subscription to Office 365; there are all manner of other software Microsoft sells that runs on Windows, premium services and so on.
The deal on Windows 10 right now sets up a large eco-system of computers and devices running Windows 10, which in turn provides plenty of opportunities for Microsoft (and other companies).
@Tidysweep
The price for an upgrade copy of Windows 10 is $0.00 USD. This is for a PERPETUAL license.
Where "perpetual" means "until we drop support for it, a couple of years from now". Sure, you can still use it forever after that. On a non-networked machine, with its RJ45 jack and USB sockets epoxied shut.
But I didn't contest that. There will be add-ons and improvements not covered by your current W10 license, and at some point these add-ons will turn out to be required to run most of your software. Stuff you need to license separately. Stuff you may need to pay for, or pay to unlock all capabilities. Stuff that's add-driven unless you pay. And Microsoft won't be claiming your firstborn in payment for these add-ons, just a reasonable fee. Per add-on, AND per year. You'll be suffering the death by a thousand cuts.
Why not install it on your Macbook?
I love the pictire of happy MS Campers. They must be cheering as their first customer of the day goes into the store.
Perhaps their euphoria will be short lived as said punter asks...
"can you direct me to the Apple Store please?"
That picture of paid-for spasming, "dancing" youthful beerbellys makes me rage for no particular reason and I have fantasies of going all Taxi Driver on these people's arse. I want to see the pink mist!
Must be my age showing. Or maybe my habitude of being tortured by Microsoft while they laugh at me through addies.
They really, really really want to encourage people aboard the Titanic, don't they?
Actually, though, there's a bit of shrewdness there as well. When someone retires a laptop in favour of a new one, it is usually available to a knowledgeable relative or friend who can revitalise it with Linux. Taking out that option must help at least a little bit.
And of course, most traded-in laptops will have their hard drives intact - free data for slurping, no dodgy telemetry updates required.
"Actually, though, there's a bit of shrewdness there as well. When someone retires a laptop in favour of a new one, it is usually available to a knowledgeable relative or friend who can revitalise it with Linux. Taking out that option must help at least a little bit."
Indeed - and the higher price for Apple gear is also a shrewd move: It's not because they value Apple gear higher (although I realise Kelly probably said that with tongue firmly in cheek), it's because they're offering a little more to try and get Apple-types to jump ship.
"And of course, most traded-in laptops will have their hard drives intact - free data for slurping, no dodgy telemetry updates required."
I was going to say that! :)
"it's because they're offering a little more to try and get Apple-types to jump ship."
ahhahhahahahaha-hhaa-ha-ha-hohohooohoohhoo-no-no-stobbit-stobbit-no-hahaha
[takes deep breath and composes himself]
They expect me to jump back onto the rotten stinking edifice that I am so happy to have jumped off years ago...?! For a mere $300?!
hahahahahaha-haaahhhaaahahoohooohhhoohohahahah-enough-no-argghh-i-cant-take-it-etc
"They really, really really want to encourage people aboard the Titanic, don't they?"
No, no that desperate; yet:
"The Trade-in devices you are sending in must be fully operational, undamaged and up to six years old..."
So effectively they are still targeting Win7/8 users. So looks like no takers for my 386-based WfWg laptop...(not it's not connected to the internet because my router doesn't support 10baseT :) )
Neither will they take an almost useless netbook:
" Laptops and ChromeBooks must have a minimum 11.3” display."
So effectively they are still targeting Win7/8 users.
Oh yes, I think so. It isn't just about increasing Win10 numbers. They really must cut significantly into the Win7 and 8.1 numbers in order to get anything like a reasonable userbase for Windows 10.
So in that context, they won't be coaxing you to scrap your 386.
"it is usually available to a knowledgeable relative or friend who can revitalise it with Linux."
"It is usually available to a knowledgeable relative or friend who can make it work properly with linux - like it should have done in the first place."
There - fixed it for you.
At least, that's been my usual experience with ms v linux.
Much as I hate M$ they are not idiots. They have worked out that the vast majority of humans are idiots and are incapable for seeing more than 1 month into the future. They are simply cashing in on stupidity. I aim to make a killing next year converting Win 10 machines to Linux when the demands for payment switches on.
Thank you M$ you little geniuses you. xx
AC said "I aim to make a killing next year converting Win 10 machines to Linux when the demands for payment switches on."
After Windows 10 trashed my dual-boot laptop I've got two concerns about buying any hardware that's had Windows 10 on it (with a view to installing Linux) :
1. I gather that not all manufacturers are allowing access to disable the UEFI settings and are forcing the computer to allow only secure boot from a pre-defined OS specified in a database embedded in the firmware, which may make installing another OS problematic.
2. Windows 10 messes with the firmware making the bootup process look for C:\Windows\something.exe (this latest bit of MS nastiness was talked about on El Reg a few weeks ago). Since installing Linux Mint to the aforementioned laptop, bootup fails and hangs after a few seconds (there is no drive C: ) so I need to do a soft reboot (Ctrl, Alt, Del) to get it to boot into Linux.
Do you think these problems are surmountable? They look like a strategy to force hardware to be Microsoft Windows only. i.e. deliberately aimed at blocking (or making it difficult) to install Linux on ex-Windows 10 hardware. Thoughts?
Aaargs... I am afraid I cannot offer help here (aside from the obvious "Do not buy machines that are locked down by BIOS or other means."). Let me just say that I suffer from "shitty BIOS" right now: power up sometimes works, but mostly only starts the fans. I have to power down and up again to get the fucker booting. Power-off works mostly, when not, I have to cut mains. The BIOS is a nightmarish labyrinth of (for me) undocumented options. I wish it had an option "just be a stupid old-style BIOS". (O/S is Debian, machine is a Fujitsu Celsius W520).
@ Grumpenkraut
you said " Let me just say that I suffer from "shitty BIOS" right now: power up sometimes works, but mostly only starts the fans. I have to power down and up again to get the fucker booting. Power-off works mostly, when not, I have to cut mains. "
You've got a f'cked motherboard. Some or all of the capacitors are u/s and aren't generating enough voltage to start the machine
Thanks for the reply. But no, the motherboard should be fine (if not, I got 5 years of warranty). I have now disabled anything (and that is, a lot of things!) in the BIOS that even remotely sounds like something clever is attempted. Now it seems that the power button does what it's supposed to: just power the fucker on.
Just consulted my crystal ball and M$ will be fighting several court cases in the near future. Their behaviour is criminal, hacking machines which don't belong to you is illegal. Forcing people to upgrade against their will is illegal. Forcing new terms and conditions on people who you gave no choice to reject them is illegal. If you think VW is in shit street, wait until the M$ cases start. Buy plenty of pop corn.
"If you think VW is in shit street, wait until the M$ cases start"
You seem to be forgetting that M$ has enjoyed exemption from law ever since 1999 when it became the special software dissemination branch of the U$ government in exchange for United States v. Microsoft Corp. going away.
Nothing substantial will be done to curtail U$ strategic interests. There'll just be yet another flurry of conspicuous but ultimately inconsequential noises from Europe.
Watch.
@Andy Non
I recently upgraded a laptop from W7 to W10 to test some things(*), and the upgrade didn't even touch the bootloader, grub still fires up as usual.
(*) the laptop is only used with linux, but I needed to check if a certain toolchain would still work on W10 for a customer.
@petur
My dual-boot laptop continued to work for several weeks allowing me to boot into either Linux mint or Windows 10 as required; until one day immediately after Windows 10 did some automatic updates, from that point on it was Windows 10 only. No grub menu, straight into Windows 10 every time. I suspect that particular batch of updates contained "updates" for the firmware specific to my make/model of computer and at the same time Windows 10 re-enabled all the UEFI secure boot stuff etc. So just because Windows 10 doesn't trash your dual-boot immediately doesn't mean it won't do so at some point in the future if/when it gets around to "updating" your particular firmware.
If you dual boot in the usual way, it alters the MBR – the Master Boot Record – on your hard drive. I infer that the Windows 10 “update” “repaired” the MBR to only boot into Windows 10.
Instead, why not look into EasyBCD?
http://neosmart.net/
It's free for personal and non-commercial use. (I am not in any way affiliated with the company.)
It's a Windows program that works by replacing the standard boot loader with its own boot loader, not by altering the MBR. If you choose to uninstall it, then it restores the original boot loader.
There are two Windows programs that I use on a daily basis for which there are not adequate Linux equivalents. Being able to choose to boot into Windows 7 or Linux Mint 17.2 makes my life work.
It's also a good way to wean people off Windows and into Linux, by keeping Windows available as a “security blanket.”
I need to do a soft reboot (Ctrl, Alt, Del) to get it to boot into Linux
Regard this minor inconvenience as a protection against theft. A thief will think the machine is broken and leave it behind, or at least be unable to read the stuff on your disk.
When I installed Xubuntu, I completely trashed the M$ on the laptop that I'm using to type this. So when it boots it shows a blue screen with "your computer needs to be repaired". I have to hit ESC, F9 and scroll down to get to the grub startup.
I like that idea and upvoted you but, as mentioned above, how long before Microsoft locks out most (all) Linux Distros with UEFI and then there's the potential fiasco being created by SystemD in the Linux world.
I can't help but think that UEFI, Secure Compute mechanisms and SystemD have been a coordinated attack on the Linux ecosystem to more or less correspond with Windows 10. Otherwise the coincidence is staggering.
Between this obvious attempt to dragoon world+dog into the Win10 net and forced against-users'-will "upgrades" from Win7 and up, I am glad Microsoft has decided to no longer support XP if these latest shenanigans are what constitutes "support".
Anon so the M$ ninjas won't down me and my XP. :-O
Actually, I've already installed Linux Mint to a partition on my Windows 7 laptop so it's dual boot now. I'm getting used to Mint as I type and eventually I'll remove Windows 7 from boot and just have it as a VM in Mint for one or two bits of software that just don't work under Linux (either natively or WINE).
For me, it's not necessarily the OS that is the main concern funnily enough, as I can always replace it if necessary.
I'm not giving up my trusty old Thinkpad mainly because neither Lenovo, HP nor Dell will sell me a laptop these days without a crap 16:9 screen, a keyboard designed for shininess instead of typing performance, and a trackpad which takes up so much of the palm wrest that I could land a plane on it.
Sorry MS, as well as all the deserved flak you're getting for your criminal attempts to squeeze Windows 10 onto my hardware, you should also direct some of that flak towards your hardware partners for saturating the market with shoddy, cheap and uninspiring products. Why would I want to replace my laptop if it means downgrading several of the components?
I can have a couple of dozen old PCs up and running by Monday, £50 each.
You can have the OS of your choice, I have everything from Win3.1 for WorkGroups, Win95 (on 50 floppies if required!!), through Win98, 98SE, ME and early XP CDs. I might also have a Win2000 disk lurking somewhere.
Joke, no way are you prising those precious, spyware-free OS disks from me!!!
I have some nice ISOs of every MS OS since DOS 6.1 (really...) and have valid, working, license keys for most of 'em. Older machines which can handle it have been updated to Win 7. Older machines which can't handle it are sitting in the garage next to my old Macs (anyone want a beige G3 running Jaguar?) just in case I someday need to run XP or W2K. One elderly Mac is running Yellow Dog Linux, one elderly ex-Windows machine is running Fedora.
I may yet replace all the Win 7 machines with Macs old enough to run Mountain Lion and tell both Apple and MS where to get off. In that case, there will be a whole lot more Fedora (or maybe a different distro, it depends on what's handy and how much effort I feel like putting in) machines around here.
See my post above, you *may* find it problematic installing Linux on a machine that has previously had Windows 10 on it. Something of a lottery of which manufacturers have locked down the UEFI settings and if Windows 10 has meddled with the firmware. Hence, the next computer I'm buying (direct from China) has Ubuntu pre-installed and I'm going to put Linux Mint on it. This may be a new and prosperous market for the smaller manufacturers who are prepared to sell Linux kit. This is what I'm considering:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eggsnow-Aluminum-Fanless-Haswell-Computer/dp/B00XKMJO3Y/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1445091026&sr=8-5&keywords=linux+desktop
The T's and C's for this. MIcrosoft have the right to everything, but not limited to:
- Your soul.
Also who the hell is going to trade in a MacBook for less than what they can shift it for on Ebay? No Apple fan, but they're like the embarrassing friend over MS rapist friend.
MS can feck right off, I've had to constantly monitor mine and my folks PC's for sneaky updates from US pushing their crap OS. Only 2 days ago I found that updates that had been removed and hidden had been automatically installed by MS updates, and 3 times in one day I had to remove the 'optional' but automatically downloaded 3GB OS... each time it was a factionally different size and seemingly counted as a 'new' update.
I'll stick with Win7 Pro thanks... if only for the reason that my media server is primarily used for Media centre and there simply isn't an acceptable alternative that's as reliable as the emby (used to be called Media Browser) plugin and server. I've tried others, but none can be started from the remote (I've tried all sorts of so called fixes) and none have the look, feel and flexibility.
So feck orf MS... I was actually converted from dodgy copies of your OS into a paying customer and purchased 4 versions of Win7... But you can feck orf now. I'll stick with these until they fall over and then I'll probably get a few Roku boxes and a NAS to replace the media server (in fact I'll most likely convert the media server into a NAS, it'll be overkill I know). If I do have to have a desktop for gaming, it will be locked down and the insidious spyware will be removed, blocked and thwarted by every means possible.
You converted me into a paying customer and now you converted me into a non paying customer again... Well done... Well done indeed.
There seems to be more than a faint whiff of panic coming from Microsoft. I can easily (even at home) lay my hands on a couple of old (Windows ME, one of them, if I can remember where it is) laptops and two more desktops. I'm sure I am not alone. But I'll be damned if I would waste £400 on anything made by Microsoft.
I'd love to put £400 towards a new Linux machine - you could get a quite decent Linux homebuild with that budget - but as for trying to clean up and convert an ex Win 10 machine, no thanks.
I suspect you're out of luck with the old laptops, especially if old enough to be running ME. The offer doesn't apply to anything over 6 years. And it has to have a working battery. Contradictory?
Even had I some qualifying kit worth less than a ton, what would prevent me from going for it would be the requirement to supply "personal details". This is just another data slurp.
-A.
Most home users will end up getting Windows 10 foisted upon them. But the holdouts, those IT-literate people who have been jumping through the hoops with registry entries, changing Windows Update settings, watching the KBs listed and hiding the GWX/telemetry updates, and doing it each month for themselves and family/friends as MS gets more and more insistent must have been doing it because they wanted to get a Windows 10 computer with a rebate. This offer is for them.
Nope, doesn't make sense. Seems like they're starting to panic because someone's installation/sales projection on a Powerpoint slide isn't being met. Now they're just throwing shit at a fan and seeing what sticks.
Funny I'd have thought that, they were throwing the fecal matter 'round since the release of Win8.x. Its almost a shame I'm getting on a bit now. I'd almost would have loved the chance to sit in a Business 101 Class: Today's Lecture... How to run a multi-billion dollar Corporation into the ground, or how Windows 8.x, and Windows 10 destroyed MicroSofts' past dominance in the OS market, by destroying any trace of trust anyone still had for 'em.
It is MY COMPUTER, set up the way I want it. Micro@@#%& has no right to override what I want and my settings.
Three time so far they have done just that by trying to get me to to install Win10. If I could get the service packs, I rather go back to XP first.
How long till the first Class Action law suit?
Class action?! Really...
I'm no fan of Microsoft, and sans the MicroSoft Tax, on new pre-built Machines. I kinda fail to see where a Court would entertain such an idea to be honest. Considering that Linux actually exists. Back in the day Mr. Gates might have remarked that it had the distant potential to kill Windows. That day is slowly creating up on us now. For the other freaks there's Mac OS, and Enterprise, the mass demogragic for this site should be otherwise exempt, from this BS. Of course the trust issues should remain, and if MicroSoft continues to ignore this issue, by the continual release of non descriptive updates, as they have been doing. You have to install it to know what's in it (Yes a swipe at Obamacare) only works when the Shrills are running the place. The problem is the Shrills are clearly in the minority thankfully.
I have, in the recent past, sold five and six year old Apple iMacs for more than $450. I've sold elderly MacBook Pros for more than that. Why in God's name would I sell one to MS for less than I _know_ I can get for 'em on the open market? Yes, I sold PPC Macs for more than MS wants to give for _Intel_ Macs. I sold them to people who _know_ that they would be unable to run the latest Apple OS on 'em; this was, in fact, a selling point 'cause they didn't want to run the iOSifised more recent OSes. The last OS PPC Macs can run is Leopard. I've sold Intel Macs which were old enough to be able to run Snow Leopard to people who absolutely positively refuse to touch Lion and following, come what may. There is a small but vocal market of those who hate, hate, HATE Lion, Mountain Lion, and later and will be moved off Leopard and Snow Leopard when someone pries their older Macs out of their cold dead fingers. Old Apple kit can have a high resale value.
I'm about a femtosecond away from removing Windows from all the public computers in the community centre where I volunteer as the BOFH and installing Linux Mint. Fortunately our public IT suite has more Macs than PCs, and very popular they are too. We are also actively seeking funding to switch the office machines to Macs.
I've worked in IT for 45 years: Windows has always been an utter pain in the fecking arse to deal with since the early 80s. OS X and Linux Mint, on the other hand, are an absolute joy to work with. Our usage patterns at the centre confirm that Windows no longer offers any advantages over other platforms and we could make significant cost savings by transitioning our remaining PCs to Linux.
Now if I could totally ditch Flash I'd be happy. Unfortunately, as we are a training centre for UKOnline, we still have to deploy Flash as the Learn My Way series of online IT courses is Flash-driven and it will probably take years before it's dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
YMMV!
=:~)
I'm about a femtosecond away from removing Windows from all the public computers in the community centre where I volunteer as the BOFH and installing Linux Mint.
You use Windows in a public area?
Actually, that's a little unfair of me as I used to have a similar group of PCs under my watch. But honestly, a volunteer BOFH? Sounds like a contradiction in terms!
Yeah, sad's the word. Microsoft's marketing has been crass, ham-handed and tone-deaf as far back as I can remember.
That foto reminds me of that video from a few years ago, of the dancing sales drones at a Microsoft Store in a shopping mall.
That's MS's marketing strategy in a nutshell... nothing about specs, capabilities and such -- just a bunch of singing and dancing.
That foto reminds me of that video from a few years ago, of the dancing sales drones at a Microsoft Store in a shopping mall.
Actually, it reminded me of the (in)famous clip of Bally gyrating that bowlfull of jelly at one of Micros~1's rah-rah sessions under his watch.
Hmm. 4 black chicks, 1 white guy and 1 unknown, all a bit overweight. Now, I'm sure the famous multi-million M$ marketing-machine is not choosing these actors by mistake... so what signal are they sending here? Are they saying that mostly black people are stupid enough to buy into their $hit?
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=stock_photos
Welcome to the new world order, either take the cash or they will wait and slurp you later or sooner (with some patches for Windows 7 that will upgrade it to have the abilities of Win 10)
That Linux Mint installation I use is looking more and more likely to be my main operating system and Windows 7 in a VM for all but essential programs (which there are but a few these days if you know where to look and are happy to learn, though as a geek (old reference, not the beardy shoreditch it's cool to be a, or the napoleon dynamite no tech skills braindead versions) I'm guessing the majority on here actually enjoy learning all the time.
Any trust I had in Microsoft is slowly but surely slipping away and paying people to go to Win 10 to me is an admission that something else is in play here, what that is I don't know but a software company doesn't give money away on hardware unless there is something else they are not being honest about (yes I know they do hardware and yes I know it may become a subscription model meaning more money in the long run). It seems a bit odd and I suppose it will all come out in the wash,
You see the distant flames
They bellow in the night
You fight in all our names
For what we know is right
But when you all get Windows 10
And cannot carry on
Though your computer dies, la resistance lives on
Viva la resistance.
"something else is in play here, what that is I don't know"
That's easy. They want to minimise what they support. Getting everyone onto 10 ASAP is part of it. The other part is compulsory updates for consumer stuff - they know they can't get away with that with enterprise as a significant proportion will insist on testing updates.
6 months old laptop
...
Laptop touchpad has no driver but I regard that as an advantage
When I bought a laptop for the wife about 6 months ago I discovered that OpenSuse wouldn't work with the touchpad, which required some weird driver under Windows. On looking however, there was a BIOS setting which disabled the "enhanced" functions of the touchpad and hey-presto, OpenSuse now works perfectly with it, multi-finger gestures and all.
That laptop came with W8 on a 500GB HDD and 2GB RAM. Before even charging the battery, the bottom was off, an SSD was in place and the RAM was upped to 4GB. I did try to find a "naked" laptop without Windows but utterly without success.
M.
I bought just such a laptop in the UK last year - 4-core i7, 8GB, 1920x1080
Aah, yes, well, let me be a bit more specific. I wanted a low-ish specification machine with 13" or so screen, decent battery life and under £300. It's not used for anything beefy at all; web browsing, email, word processing. Can't remember exactly the specification we ended up with but it's a 4-core Celeron and does the job admirably, though the screen isn't the best I've ever used.
It would have been nice to save the £30 cost (or whatever) of the W8 licence but sadly, not possible.
M.
Lots of staff, nary a customer to be seen...
Now, as to Win 10 and its subscriptions, in a retail-type user context. Methink that they've been relatively clear up to now that it won't be subscription-based. And I also think that pulling the plug, at least on Windows 10 (not saying anything about successors), would probably run afoul of a number of laws, at least in some jurisdictions.
I.e. they could easily change to sub model later. But not on something you already own and wasn't sold as being sub-based. Especially not if doing so would render your existing devices inoperable.
Most significantly, it would be a PR disaster and MS has been trying fairly hard lately to improve its image.
That's just my $0.02. Feel free to dislike MS all you want. I don't like them much myself, but this whole "OMG we're going to be sub-bed" stinks of FUD, to me. And, no, it doesn't mean I am gung-ho on MS or Win 10. It just means that they deserve to be judged on their actual merits and demerits. Just like everyone else.
i.e. If you have any factual evidence about the future subscription-only-apocalypse for consumers, on Windows 10, feel free to share it.
"and wasn't sold"
That's where the bugbear comes in isn't it? Win10 isn't being sold*, it's being given away, with T&Cs that says you agree MS can do whatever the Hell they want.
*You can buy a machine with Win10 installed, but the OS is still "free", with the same T&Cs.
> *You can buy a machine with Win10 installed, but the OS is still "free", with the same T&Cs.
That is not true (for any meaning of the word 'free'). OEMs pay Microsoft for the licences installed on machines and pass this on to the customers as part of the price of the computer.
There were some restricted versions of Windows 8 'with Bing' and for small screen devices that were free to OEMs. But the 'free' Windows 10 is only for users who have already paid Microsoft for Windows 7 or 8.
I realize that. But, be serious, this would be near-entrapment, wouldn't it? "Your honor, the plaintiffs have no case as they did not purchase it. Yes, we pushed it onto them,but technically...".
MS has spent years getting itself out of the monopoly gunsights, albeit sometimes more by means of involuntary market losses than innate good behavior. And they would do this for, what $10 a month? What kind of moron would authorize this as a CEO? The one who wants to push towards Apple and desktop Linux? Oh, they'd love to do it, if it was feasible. Subs are more lucrative. But it would be suicide. Surely you realize that.
I don't buy that theory. This is about as clever a claim as Big Steve's "Linux is a cancer".
And T&Cs have been invalidated before when they constituted gross abuse.
@JLV you are right.
But you are being rational and objective, but that's not fashionable on The Register discussions when Microsoft and especially Win10 are the subject.
These articles are clickbait for Linux zealots designed to draw their disdain. Being objective in here is liking walking into a church and conducting devil-worship rituals on the altar.
Yes, that often repeated anecdote.
Like "I was constantly having to support my 92 year old grandfather with his Windows PC, but since I installed Linux for him, I have heard from him once"
He either died, or just didn't bother using it.
I think it is more economical to sell your old computer hardware to a used hardware dealer, than to get such a measly rebate.
And yeah, Microsoft does seem rather desperate... or rather, its OEM hardware partners. That's why they had banded together for the 'PC DOES WHAT?' ad campaign.
I may need one of those. I'm about to nuke a windows 10 machine, that was upgraded by mistake, and then "Microsoft called to help us with the machine, they told us to install some stuff and hand over our card details".
If MS did not teach people to do anything and everything they said, con artists could not use the line to gain false compliance.
Whenever friends ask me about Windows 10 I always do my best to gently steer them away from it, mainly because they treat me as free tech help and I just don't want to get involved with W10 until I'm practically forced to at gunpoint, to coin a phrase.
I did try installing it on one of my laptops (on a spare drive I wiped afterwards) and just found the whole thing rather creepy, it didn't feel like I owned the machine anymore. And then there's the whole 'apps' thing, like the word "program" or "software" has been banished in favour of what new generations of mobile phone / tablet users are using.
No. Just no.
I did try installing it on one of my laptops (on a spare drive I wiped afterwards) and just found the whole thing rather creepy, it didn't feel like I owned the machine anymore. And then there's the whole 'apps' thing, like the word "program" or "software" has been banished in favour of what new generations of mobile phone / tablet users are using.
OH THE HUMANITY!!!
You will not have to rent. It's a false flag. The cost is not going to be subscription. They will make more money* the same way Google does, by selling adverts.
Oh, you'll "rent" the OS, but through "watch this video to access control panel" style creep.
*At least in their imagination.
I just looked at MS-AU's website and saw a Surface Book page with this at the bottom:
>Intel® Core® i7
>Organise and enhance photos with Adobe® Photoshop® and Lightroom®.3
>Make music with professional grade apps.
>Design and 3D modeling with programs like AutoCAD.3
>Starting from $4,199.00
Yes, you too can have an i7 *from* $4199
I haven't seen numbers like that on a computer advert since the 80's!
I considered upgrading my pentium m laptop but found MS' generosity doesn't appear to reach the Last Continent. I also realised that I don't need it. Sure the device would be better, snoopware or not, but all it does is sit on the back porch playing fitness videos and for that task, it is quite adequate.
For fun I looked for comparisons; typing "DL380" into google gives me this:
Series DL380 Gen9
Processor Intel Xeon E5-2609v3 6-Core (1.90GHz 15MB L3 Cache)
Second Processor slot (User upgradable)
Memory 8GB (1x8GB) DDR4 2133MHz RDIMM, 24 DIMM slots available, 768GB (24x32GB RDIMM)
Integrated Graphics card
4x1G NICs
Hot plug disk backplane
Battery-backed disk array controller
two external video ports
1 HP iLO Remote Management (1Gb Dedicated), 1 Micro SD slot, Front: 1 x USB 3.0, Rear: 2 x USB 3.0, Internal (secure): 2 x USB 3.0, 4x1Gb ports shipping standard
Warranty 3 Year Parts / 3 Year Labour / 3 Year Onsite Warranty Next Business Day
All for $2990 - that's around $1200 less than the surface.
Ok, different use-case, but how much does that aluminium case cost?
I've become used to elReg carefully picking stock photos that bear little or no relation to the article below.
Are you folks running some sort of internal competition or something? Can we join in?
This one, however breaks the mould. A group of ms employees expressing such extatic uninhibited joy can only mean one thing - None of 'em have taken the latest ms shilling. They (loyal serfs that they are) have probably just upgraded to WFWG 3.11.
Desperate times call for desperate measures, i see Windows 10 has yet to grab more market share than Windows XP... http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201510-201510-bar considering it was free upgrade to consumers and pushed out electronically its quite a bad response.
Then again 10/15 years ago i would have been excited about a new Windows OS, but since i've been burned and shit on with Windows Vista, 8, and 8.1 my love for Windows has gone, i dream of a Windows OS as clean and well laid out as Windows 2000 but i doubt thats going to happen.
My love affair is now with the Mac (and Linux too), and Apple would have to seriously screw up for that to change, but hey Microsoft managed to screw Windows so its possible. The odd thing is i would never EVER have bought a Mac 10 years ago, i would have bitched and made fun of Mac users, but even Windows 7 drives me mad now after using OS X for 4 years.
I think the Windows 10 take up so far shows most people just don't care about Windows anymore, its just that annoying thing that breaks all the time.
There's a bloke in our office who just has to be different (+ despised for it) and despite the rest of the office having Win 7 desktop computers he wants a laptop. This isn't the first time he's done something like this, bought a different chair a couple of years ago because he fancied a bit more comfort. So he has a word with the boss and through basically whining a hell of a lot is able to get her permission and budget for IT to supply him with a laptop. So he has the laptop a new large Dell beastie sitting on his desk a full hour before he switches it on as he had to go to a "lunch meeting" (with his girlfriend we discover). During this time someone notices that it has a Windows 8 sticker on it and we then can't wait for him to come back from his "meeting".
When he eventually does and switches the damn thing on and he discovers to his disgust that it's Windows 8. He calmly calls IT support and asks to have win 7 put on it please, to which the reply is "No" corporate laptops are win 8. Then he discovers that it isn't touch screen either and is now really pissed off so goes to see the boss. She says he's just got to learn to live with it because she is not wasting more budget on him (she told us after work - see below). He is really unhappy but is determined not to show it, so to rub it in everyone asks how is he finding his laptop? We even invited people down from other floors for "meetings" so that they could ask him. Then the windows 10 notifications start popping up and he can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Calls IT and says he wants to upgrade to win 10 only to be told that's not corporate IT policy and he has to wait for a company wide roll out at least a year away.
So eventually he starts asking people if they'd like to swap the benefits of a laptop over their clunky old desktop machines. No one takes him up on the offer and he now openly admits that he hates his laptop. He really hates his laptop and has since discovered that the rest of the office go out for an evening in the pub every once in a while. He's never been invited to any of these......
Wow - You guys must be so much better than he is..... Rather than make his life easier by installing
1. Windows 7
OR
2.. ClassicShell
OR
3. A. N. Other shell replacement out specifically designed to give the User a Win7-style experience
You basically decided to stick one to him and degrade to group bullying about the fact he could utilise the IT budget better than your "cool" gang. Perhaps you should spend your time wondering why you have a strange office policy of running two concurrent OS's based purely on whether or not its a laptop or desktop, rather than trying to give someone a hard time like some school bully.
It's crap like this that give IT teams a bad name to the other departments. :-/
We went through a headcount reduction a couple of years ago shortly after this bloke was employed and the team had to lose two staff members. Because we all have the same job title, we were all up for the chop (voluntary redundancy was offered) and being a close knit team this was upsetting. Well I say all of us, all except this guy who despite doing the same job as the rest of us had unbeknownst to us demanded a different job title once he knew he had the job. So everyone except him is called into a meeting room and told that two team members are for the chop. Questions are asked as to why he's not in there with us and we find out about his different job title which is unsettling. He's not great at his job and we're behind on a project as a result so the realisation dawns that we'll be down two staff members and carrying this bloke means we'll just get even further behind.
If he'd have had the same job title we'd have likely lost him due to LIFO and only one other team member. The boss can't do anything about it and we're stuck with this guy. As a result we missed a deadline and a bonus we were on target to get. One girl was banking on that cash to help pay for her wedding so you can imagine how she felt. When he first turned up for work we did invite him out for a drink but he said he wasn't keen on socialising with work colleagues. Not sure if he knew that this was a regular thing or not but we took his rejection as a sign.
We're not an IT support department and don't set the IT policy which is done at corporate level in another country so you'd need to ask them about different OS choices. Not going to waste time and risk getting fired by breaking IT policy and employment terms and conditions by changing his OS to 7. You've got quite a nasty streak though suggesting that we have him install Classic Shell and getting himself into trouble that way. Even we draw the line somewhere. Staff are not allowed to install software themselves and must put all requests through the IT support department for properly licensed and audited software.
I'm looking at their list of machines they would consider "eligible", and I'd probably be grateful to have something that new. My daughter still uses an HP Pentium4 laptop with Linux, and it just logs into her school Google Docs account. Perfectly functional (which the corresponding MS "trade-up" probably wouldn't be).
.
This stinks of the same sort of BS as President Obie's "cash for clunkers" scam, where every car I had and was still using would have been too old to qualify. I might (emphasize "might") have been happy trading one of mine for one of those so-called "clunkers". Are you sure MS isn't part of the Obama administration?
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