Forum:2005-12-30 (Friday)

Discussion for 2005-12-30 (Friday) ✣

As relates to the Storm King conspiracy

Following discussion moved from Talk:The Storm King conspiracy

"When I was a novice, she visited us frequently— always in the same lovely aspect." ✣ The "she" refers to "our Eternal Lady". The mentioning of "same lovely aspect" means the aspect changes. The aspect referred to was used when Vrin was a novice, it doesn't imply anything about the aspect used in earlier or later visits.

"But then she came to us in high distress. The gods were at war. And she carried the holy child." ✣ The "but then" separates this from the visits when Vrin was a novice (and the Eternal Lady pictured in this frame seems substantially different from that in the previous frame). I don't see any statement that this aspect was the same as the previous aspect. I see an implication (but no strong statement) that it was a different aspect from Vrin's time as an novice. (Pregnancy could be the only difference, but that isn't stated.)

As for the summer home bit, the statement is "She is/was worshipped as a Goddess (for reasons that her family always found a bit confusing) by a lost civilization of ghost-white amazons living near her father's secret base/summer home." I'll admit the "her family always found a bit confusing" implies the Geisters knowing Lucrezia was special before Agatha's birth, but it doesn't say when Lucrezia first appeared to the Geisters and claimed to be the Eternal Lady. One possibility is that Lucrezia was identified as someone to watch (as Agatha as a child was) and then became the Eternal Lady upon possession by The Other (possibly at the time of the attack on Castle Heterodyne).

I don't know what the correct interpretation is, but I'm leery about assuming a long term relationship that isn't explicit. Argadi 09:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, let's make this easier. She never appeared before the Geisterdamen pregnant until she was carrying the Holy Child and very close to term, right? That's at least 6 months for Agatha, and at least two years earlier for K.B., who was born over two years after Klaus vanished. Would it be fair to assume that between getting rid of Klaus, and K.B. being born she was busy getting to know her new household rather than visiting Geisterdamen frequently? That's roughly five years right there. Add 'visited us frequently' to the beginning of that. -- Corgi 10:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Vrin believes that every appearance of her "goddess" is the same person, but the evidence for this is shaky. In particular, Vrin is subject to the command voice, which means that her beliefs may have been mentally altered. Let's look at each of the 4 "goddesses" and consider who could have been playing the part.

1. The eternal goddess. Must have appeared on many occasions over a long time--probably centuries. However, there are no known witnesses who could recognize her (but see Loremistress Milvistle. Since the "eternal goddess" hasn't taken action in the Girl Genius story yet, we may not need to ID her. Possible candidates: a time-traveller or a near-immortal.
2. The lovey aspect goddess. Must have appeared to the Geisterdamen several times during Vrin's lifetime. There are many Geisterdamen who might recognize her. Best candidate: Lucrezia. Other candidates: a dimension traveller, or a time traveller.
3. The great distress goddess. Appeared once and gave birth to the Hold Child. Lots of Geisterdamen witnesses. Best candidates: Lucrezia. Other candidates: The Other, a dimension traveller, or a time traveller.
4. The gloved goddess. Appeared once with a metal glove; used portal tech. Lots of Geisterdamen witnesses. Best candidate: The Other. Other candidates: Enigma, Lucrezia, a dimension traveller, or a time traveller.

They could all 4 be different people and any or all of them could be The Other as well. It's reasonable to conclude that at least one (e.g., the fourth) is The Other, since the exiled Geisterdamen are under The Other's control today. The simplest explanation is Vrin's--that all are the same person. However, it's not much of a stretch to suppose that they are instead a series of people all using the same modus operandi--coopt the Geisterdamen by impersonating the goddess.

Personally, I suspect that the fourth may be Agatha (at least her body), but that's highly speculative. --DryBrook 16:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Given machines that can plant identities in bodies (not to mention time windows), I suspect eternal goddess has used many bodies (including Lucrezia and Agatha) over a long period. (One "identity", not one "person" in the normal sense.) When Lucrezia first became the goddess is currently unclear (as evidenced by the theories proposed here and in other fan discussions), as is the relationship between the eternal goddess and The Other—they could be identical, but more complex arrangements are possible. Argadi 17:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Vrin's narrative — full text

1. Geisters with folded hands venerating winged madonna and child symbol.
   1. Since the beginning of all things, we have served our eternal Lady.
   2. No matter how long her absence from our presence,
   3. we knew she would always return to us.
2. Geisters behind elaborately adorned "goddess"
   1. When I was a novice, she visited us frequently—
   2. always in the same lovely aspect.
3. Geisters attempting to care for obviously pregnant woman in fur hat and traveling clothes
   1. But then she came to us in high distress.
   2. The gods were at war.
   3. And she carried the Holy Child.
4. Armored Geisters with syringe lances
   1. It was the time of prophecy—
   2. beyond which even our Lady could not see.
   3. The great battle where she would be taken from us.
5. Wailing Geister
   1. We were to protect the child from those whom we knew would come to steal it.
   2. We failed.
   3. There were no more prophecies. It was the end of our world.
6. Claw strangling adorned Geister
   1. We rebuilt our temple and waited—
   2. and our mistress again returned.
7. Dejected Geister riding a spider.
   1. As punishment, she sent us here to the shadow world—
   2. where we were to seek the missing child.

Zarchne 17:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)