Sign in / up

back to article We’re paying for what we don’t get: East D.C. neighbors frustrated with Amazon’s Prime delivery exclusions

When data scientist Andrew Breza learned that the Washington, D.C. attorney general was suing Amazon for excluding his zip code from its fastest delivery service, he immediately wanted to see the proof for himself - and he found it.  "I didn't even know you could export that data [from Amazon] until I read your story and it …

COMMENTS

Post your comment
House rules Send corrections
Add to 'My topics' unstar *
  1. cornetman Silver badge

    This seems to be a big story about something extremely simple. Amazon say they will honour a certain delivery time and then they change their mind after the purchase.

    This is plain and simple deceptive practise and they should be prosecuted for some kind of fraud.

    All this other stuff about race seems largely tacked on for extra political clout. Also whether or not people are aware of it seems to be irrelevant. Saying that you'll do one thing, then change your mind is bad enough.

    39 7 Reply
    1. MachDiamond Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      "Amazon say they will honour a certain delivery time and then they change their mind after the purchase."

      Welcome to Amazon. The queue for complaints currently begins in Tierra Del Fuego.

      There's "Too big to fail", a religion I have no faith in, and "Too big to care". Amazon is both. There aren't enough call center workers in the world to deal with every person's issue with the company or something they've purchased, delivery, etc.

      I can walk into an independently owned shop and get an issue resolved if there's a legitimate complaint about something. Plenty of people would just suck it up and realize they bought the cheapest POS they could find and no wonder it broke in the first week rather than just tick a box online and get another and another. It so easy to make bad purchasing decisions. I'm also noticing that the "buy a pallet of Amazon returns" videos are containing more and more boxes with bricks in as people take advantage.

      15 1 Reply
      1. cornetman Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        We actually have a similar situation here. I have a Prime account and they say that they will deliver next day.

        However, I live on a small island and no courier drivers come here: it would be prohibitively expensive for them to come over by ferry even for the couple of thousand people who live here. So everything comes by Canada Post for the "final mile". So it will always take a couple of days, minimum. You get used to it though as it is a reality of island living. I also would prefer that they 'fess up before the purchase is completed.

        15 0 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          it would be prohibitively expensive for them to come over by ferry even for the couple of thousand people who live here.

          Surely some sort of co-operative system would work? I know a village in Ireland where the nearest chinese takeaway is a ferry ride across an estuary. You can phone in your order, they drop it with the ferry crew who then leave it at the harbour pub on the other side. You can pick it up from the pub, and have a pint while you're waiting.

          7 0 Reply

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Vaughans?

              Sorry, I don't get the reference/joke.

              IIRC the pub's called Byrne's. It's definitely win-win for everyone.

              0 0 Reply
      2. Gene Cash Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        I can walk into an independently owned shop or even a huge national chain store and find nothing I want to buy.

        I wanted some adhesive squares of rubber anti skid for the bottom of my keyboard, so you'd think one of 3 office supply chains or one of 2 hobby & crafts chains would have it. Nope.

        I wanted some soft 3" compression springs for a project. You'd think a hobby & crafts chain or one of 3 different hardware store chains would have it. Nope.

        I needed 3/4" 12" pipes for making a rack for my jackets. You'd think one of 3 different hardware store chains would have it. Nope.

        I needed some replacement bags for my small DeWalt shop vac. You'd think one of 3 different hardware store chains would have it. Nope. They sell that model shop vac though!

        I wanted an electric mattress pad or blanket because it's cold. You'd think 2 different big-box department stores would have more than one shitty choice. Nope.

        So for me, it's online or nothing. I don't even try shopping locally any more.

        13 0 Reply
        1. cornetman Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Honestly, I'm not entirely sure where I would go physically for a lot of the stuff that I buy now. I'm sure that there are physical shops out there but I know that in the past, a lot of them have been "trade only" outfits so won't deal with the general public.

          I do try to deal with local businesses where I can but a lot of what I need is pretty esoteric.

          5 0 Reply
        2. MachDiamond Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          "I wanted some adhesive squares of rubber anti skid for the bottom of my keyboard, so you'd think one of 3 office supply chains or one of 2 hobby & crafts chains would have it. Nope."

          I'd have chosen a hardware store rather than office supply. Many smaller hardware stores in the US are affiliated with a co-op (Ace, DoItBest, etc) and have access to thousands of products they might not keep stocked in the store. If they have good employees, you might find they have grippy rubber and double-sided tape that you can cut to shape.

          If I can get something at the local hardware store, that's preferable to the giant warehouse stores. Closer to. It also means I can look at the thing, feel any quality that's been left in and be able to see if that thing it going to fit my needs.

          I do have to resort to buying online, but that's my last resort. I'm also much more of a planner rather than somebody that just dives into a project and wants to finish it by yesterday. I learned the depth of what a co-op'd hardware store can do years ago when I needed an air compressor for my business years ago. I found one that would do the job in a catalog at the service desk and had it in the back of my truck 3 days later. At the time, my roommate was an assistant manager at the store so I was able to get the best price too. The store didn't stock a compressor as large as I wanted.

          Sadly, our local auto parts store closed up and now it's a 15min drive to the next town for the closest store. Many people didn't realize that if they didn't have a part in stock, they could often get one within a day. No shipping cost and if it was wrong, no repacking the item and taking it someplace to ship back.

          5 0 Reply
          1. OhForF' Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Ordering in at the local store

            >Many smaller hardware stores in the US are affiliated with a co-op (Ace, DoItBest, etc) and have access to thousands of products they might not keep stocked in the store.<

            Why would i pay a markup at a local store for them to order an item in instead of ordering it directly myself?

            Optimizing the cost structure by no longer keeping low margin items in stock even though customers need them will result in customers visiting less frequently and thus reduce the business with higher margin articles displayed in the store. Local stores will not be able to compete with the big retailers on cost.

            In other words reducing the items kept on stock optimizes cost but at the same time removes the local store's raison d'être.

            1 1 Reply
            1. MachDiamond Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: Ordering in at the local store

              "Why would i pay a markup at a local store for them to order an item in instead of ordering it directly myself?"

              The price you pay isn't marked up and they might even discount special orders. The difference is you pay no shipping, support that local business and if the item is wrong, you can take it back for an exchange in many cases. You might also get some advice so you buy the correct thing in the first place.

              Time is a big factor in my life. I can "save" money by going to the warehouse grocery. The problem is that it's 45 miles away. If I only need a couple of lemons, the price at the local shop will be more, but my total cost of acquisition and the time it takes is far less even though I've paid more for the lemons. I do keep track of things I need/want and shop at the warehouse grocery when I'm in the area to save money. I won't stop in for a pair of lemons even if I'm nearby as it's a big store and there usually a pretty good queue to pay.

              My local hardware store would be less useful if it stocked 10x as much stuff. I'd be ready for a nap after traversing all the way to the back where the screws are if that's all I needed. It's more efficient for them to keep the things in stock that sell the most often or a good selection of things such as rubber washers for faucets since only stocking the most popular makes having any at all useless. Why do I want to line the pockets of a multi-million salaried CEO a thousand miles away rather than keep money circulating in my own community?

              5 0 Reply
              1. OhForF' Silver badge
                Reply Icon

                Re: Ordering in at the local store

                >The price you pay isn't marked up< if you compare it to the local shop's "list price". Local stores do need a mark up to pay for keeping items in stock and i am usually happy to pay their higher price for being able to look at the item and buy it in a store close to me instead of buying it from a web store. If i can't find local stores having what i want in stock i can order it myself - almost always at a lower price than what the local store would charge me for it (and that is including shipping fees).

                >if the item is wrong, you can take it back for an exchange in many cases<

                Local laws make it even easier to exchange/return items if i order online; within the first 14 days i can send it back for a full refund without stating a reason (if i didn't order from some obscure chinese shop that will ignore EU laws).

                Don't get me wrong - i rarely order online and more than 95% of my purchases are done in person in local stores. Paying a (local) store to order stuff for me still seems to be as stupid a concecpt to me as ordering items that need to fit and come in different sizes online.

                0 1 Reply
          2. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Our village (just, as the population is now ~4000) in Scotland had a brilliant hardware store until a couple years ago. They stocked almost anything you would need for jobs around the house (decorating, plumbing, electrical, etc) and prices were comparable to the bigger chains in the nearest city (30 miles away). Trade was especially good during the Covid lockdown as many people took the time to get through their DIY backlog, and a trip to the city was frowned upon. Post-Covid, however, business fell off a cliff and the store closed. It's probably not a problem for the people who commute to th city for work, as they can drop into the chains but, for those of us who don't, it's a 60 mile round trip. Mind you, our village is a haven for the courier companies (DPD, Evri, DHL, UPS, Royal Mail/Parcel Force, etc) as they're kept busy. And they all do a magnificent job - complaints regarding missed deliveries, etc are almost non-existent here as several of the drivers are local and know the customers.

            1 1 Reply
        3. ecofeco Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          I have the same problem. What were once simple common items are no longer sold in stores. Your examples damn near mirror my own.

          Car and appliance parts as well.

          I don't like shopping on-line for the very reason the other poster stated: far easier to make returns locally. But if they don't have what I need, I WILL shop on-line and buy from whoever has the best price. And I do mean NEED, because I can't afford frivolities, hobbies are even cheap luxuries and HAVE to DIY EVERYTHING.

          2 0 Reply
    2. PRR Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Megaphone

      Order within three hours!!!

      > you can download your Amazon data here

      "Usually, this should not take more than a month."

      HOW in this day and age can ANY customer's account need a month to pull data?

      > This is plain and simple deceptive practise .... All this other stuff about race seems largely tacked on...

      I think you are right.

      In the (lily-white) woods on the north-east coast of Maine USA, hundreds of miles above Boston but just off US Route 1:

      > "It may say if I order within three hours I'll get it the next day; as soon as I order it they claim I'll get it two days later,"

      Every dang time. Amazon begs and tricks me to pay for Prime but seems incapable of moving goods quickly.

      It's not about who delivers it: I have had 12-hour delivery from UPS (this may have been a mistake). FedEx's contracted trucks are fast and reliable here.

      Amazon can stall my orders in the warehouse for a week. Rarely will it move next-day, even when I foolishly pay for speed.

      > Amazon ..... maintaining ..... that the issue pertains to driver safety. ....crime rates in the east end....

      Crime here is low and usually domestic squabble or $5 break-ins. Assault on delivery drivers is nearly unknown.

      My lover has been saying "Walmart". She's right, at least for some things. Small plumbing 2 day free, Lenovo Flaptop next-day free. Walmart's listings manage to be worse than Amazon, and I hate their supply-side policies, but Wally is seriously fighting Amazon on delivery to my woods.

      2 1 Reply
      1. MachDiamond Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Order within three hours!!!

        "HOW in this day and age can ANY customer's account need a month to pull data?"

        Yet hackers can download all customer data from an unsecured DB in an hour.

        5 0 Reply

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. I could be a dog really Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Order within three hours!!!

        Every dang time. Amazon begs and tricks me to pay for Prime

        Yes, it's "quite irritating.

        Amazon can stall my orders in the warehouse for a week. Rarely will it move next-day, even when I foolishly pay for speed.

        I try and avoid Amazon on ethics grounds - how they treat their workers, and how they treat their suppliers. I'll try and find things almost anywhere else first. Oh yes, not to mention the shirubbish filters which don't include anything like "only show me sellers based in the UK" for example. But in this case I was given a voucher, so it's either spend it or let them have some money for absolutely nothing.

        So the stuff is clearly in stock - apparently if I pay extra for delivery I can have it next day, if I pay them for Prime I can have it next day. But if I want free delivery, it will be dispatched on [a date about 3 weeks hence].

        0 0 Reply
    3. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Amazon [Sub] Prime

      A big fine will do

      2 0 Reply
    4. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      The thing is they *don’t* say they’ll honor a specific delivery time. It’s very much just an estimate, and when they deliver stuff late (anywhere), there’s no compensation or apology, just “oh, well, if it got there too late then take us up on a free return.”

      What the Prime membership *does* promise is that you won’t be charged a shipping or delivery fee. And they’re delivering on that! If anything, it seems uncharacteristically charitable of Amazon to pay third-party carriers more than their quasi-in-house fleets to do the “free” deliveries. The same corporation with a reputation for pee bottles, foregoing revenue just because their drivers are being systematically robbed? There’s hope yet!

      The other wrinkle here: if you’re assaulted or robbed as a civilian driver, the DC police may or may not even show up to take a report. The mail itself is protected by federal law, and that particular delivery firm has its own policing powers in the form of postal inspectors.

      If a would-be package thief assaults a US federal postal worker, that’s a federal felony—if need be, the local US Attorney’s office can step in when the local remedies are anemic. Last I checked the feds have no sense of humor about that kind of thing: it’s far from obvious that the postal deliveryperson is a target in the same way that the Amazon Santa is.

      0 1 Reply
  2. Joe Gurman

    Back to western movies

    They just need to have someone riding shotgun, or maybe assault rifle, in the delivery trucks alongside the driver.

    8 1 Reply
    1. stiine Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      Re: Back to western movies

      One gunner for each delivery, to wait on the sidewalk until you bring in your packages? You'll have to use busses for deliveries.

      0 0 Reply
    2. Ghostman
      Reply Icon

      Re: Back to western movies

      They just need to have someone riding shotgun, or maybe semi-auto rifle, in the delivery trucks alongside the driver.

      fixed that for you.

      0 0 Reply
    3. MachDiamond Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Back to western movies

      "They just need to have someone riding shotgun, or maybe assault rifle, in the delivery trucks alongside the driver."

      And that will cost loads of money so there's no point racing to the bottom on price and then having to mark the shipping way up to have things moved by squads of commandos.

      0 0 Reply
  3. Stratman

    Why would the delivery time change after pressing the 'buy' button? It knows who you are and where you live as soon as you log in.

    12 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Ye olde bait and switch.

      It’s been the staple technique of the shyster for eons.

      11 1 Reply
    2. MachDiamond Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      "Why would the delivery time change after pressing the 'buy' button? "

      It might be determined that the thing is coming from a different distribution center. Weather. They find out that no delivery service will go into that neighborhood.

      Until you hit "buy", all they system may know is there is one for sale (and that's often wrong). It's not until there's a purchase that it's known where it is and how they can get it to you.

      0 4 Reply
      1. M.V. Lipvig Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        It knows where you live because presumably you've ordered from them before.

        It knows who delivers to you, because they've delivered to you and your neighbors.

        And, it knows what it has in stock and where, with few exceptions.

        Therefore, it should not change the delivery time when you hit buy. The chances that any of the information it had before the buy would change in the instant the buy is hit is higher than hitting the lottery on your birthday when you're struck by lighting while drinking a pina colada on the back porch of your neighbor's house 3 doors widdershins of your parent's house.

        5 1 Reply

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. OhForF' Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            No web shop will be designed to reserve a physical item in a warehouse and schedule picking and delivery when a customer puts an item into their virtual shopping cart. This would involve significant effort in several systems (web shop, ERP, MFS) and be totally wasted if the customer decides not to go through with the order.

            Most web shops will be deliberately display an item as available when they know it is not in stock but replenishment is scheduled (or the item can be ordered in from some 3rd party) within a few days.

            Even if half the customer cancel orders after being shown the "next day delivery" will happen in 2-3 days you will have more orders than you'd have after displaying "out of stock".

            2 1 Reply
    3. stiine Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      They know who you are as soon as you connect to their site, because cookies are sometimes wonderful things.

      2 1 Reply
  4. IGotOut Silver badge

    It's not just rough areas...

    ...before ditching Prime, when I lived in a town most would be next day.

    10 miles up the road, it was lucky if it was two days. And when it was next day, it was amazing how many times it was "Delivered", but when you found it wasn't and complained, you just got an automated "Give it a few days".

    How the fuck can it have been delivered, but give it a few more days to arrive?

    Stupid thing is, because the delivery is so shit, there is no point actually using Amazon anymore.

    13 1 Reply
    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Re: It's not just rough areas...

      there is no point actually using Amazon anymore.

      That point was passed about the time they started shifting anything beyond CDs and books. Actual physical products from known makers; they were able to provide things that weren't necessarily available locally - though I'd still prefer a real bookshop.

      These days, Amazon is basically an mirror of Temu: supply from companies that didn't exist last week and won't next week, pile their crap high and sell it cheap, working their 'colleagues' into the ground along the way in an effort to shave a few more pennies profit along the way.

      Obviously people want cheap crap, and they don't care about how it gets to them.

      13 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's not just rough areas...

        It seems people (we, us, me, you) will buy whatever crap they really don't need if it's priced at 50% off some similar crap they really don't need either ... we're a very bizarre species! That some folks have found a way to make a successful business of selling us that 50%-off useless and unneeded crap with a smile-logo and sizeable profits is brilliant, for them ... but quite cruel to the rest of us.

        0 0 Reply
        1. I could be a dog really Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: It's not just rough areas...

          Please don't include me in that "we". I make a point of trying to avoid Amazon for exactly that sort of reason.

          0 0 Reply
  5. Winkypop Silver badge

    Prime example

    Amazon is my absolute last resort.

    I’d rather drive for an hour each way if I can pick up from a store.

    Delivery times here are generally glacial. Prime or not.

    9 0 Reply
  6. HuBo Silver badge
    FAIL

    A goddamn ripoff and doggone crying shame

    What kind of fearless warrior is an Amazon that can't deliver packages to the neighborhood of the Kenilworth Park & Aquatic Gardens, the Big Chair, or the Historic House of Frederick Douglass?

    At 75 years past the Anacostia Pool riot, it's high time to desegregate the Amazon Prime deliveries!

    5 0 Reply
  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Same same

    Private equity creams the cream.

    Government services do the grunt work.

    ‘merica!

    2 1 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Same same

      At least your government services do it, unlike in the UK where anything run by the government is crap.

      1 1 Reply
  8. Tron Silver badge

    Opposite problem.

    I wish they would stop trying to push/trick me into Prime.

    There are delivery variables depending upon where the stock is, weather and available drivers. You can understand them not wanting to send mobile targets full of goodies out to no go areas where gangs regularly target them. Ultimately Amazon Prime is a service and not reliant on Amazon Prime vans and people in Amazon uniforms. Multiple carriers have next day services, and some might actually dare to deliver in these places. I don't have Prime but most of my purchases arrive in Prime vans, taped up with Prime tape. And they usually arrive quite quickly. Sometimes they will have to use other services on any routes. We used to order stuff for a family member in rural Norfolk. Astonishingly stuff used to arrive next day, every time, without a Prime account. It must have been a logistics fluke based on where they had a warehouse.

    People who have a lot of local shops condemning Amazon is just arrogance. Most of us don't have alternatives in local shops and many of us don't have cars. Amazon was absolutely vital during lock downs. Their new cardboard pouches for books damage the corners, but it is easy to switch to third party sellers. I re-use regular Amazon boxes for posting and storage. Sometimes ebay is cheaper. Sometimes ebay drop shippers using Prime are fast and cheap. Just shop around. If you live in an area dangerous for couriers, instead of demanding that they be put at risk so you can get stuff quickly, you might want to lobby for more police protection.

    I expect Amazon didn't want to list a load of postcodes that they had trouble serving in branded vans, because like everything else in the US it would be twisted into a race issue and exploited by activists.

    5 1 Reply
  9. SundogUK Silver badge

    "The area has long been underserved by essential retail services"

    Shoplifted into closing then...

    2 0 Reply
  10. I miss PL/1

    This is all fake news. There is no crime in DC. Joe Biden says this is the safest place in the world on all of history. Come on man!

    1 2 Reply
  11. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Delivery estimate

    So, indeed, given they have heavy amounts of analytics, which clearly include how long it takes from the time a item is shipped to when it arrives... well, I don't expect them to go to areas if they're going to be robbed or car jacked. Fine. But they *should* be able to point out when an area (both places like east D.C. and to the person in the comments who lives on an island) is not going to get that 1-day delivery. And obviously, showing some shipping estimate that is BS then updating it just after checkout, that is pretty close to fraudulent given their analytics already know how long it's likely to take to deliver.

    0 0 Reply
  12. Marty McFly Silver badge
    Joke

    WHISKEY-TANGO-FOXTROT

    I am a Rural-American (we all should be hyphenated). I pay the SAME Amazon Prime rates as Urban-Americans. USPS makes my deliveries and Amazon never services my area. They used to, but they stopped a few years ago. I demand equality in the face of discrimination!!!

    See icon. Because, in order to be funny, there has to be kernel of truth involved.

    0 0 Reply
  13. Mitoo Bobsworth
    Trollface

    Fear not...

    I'm sure the US legal system will take them to task & make everything right again.

    0 0 Reply

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

Forgotten password ?

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like