Attention adults working in the real world: Do not upgrade to iOS 11 if you use Outlook, Exchange Apple's latest version of iOS, namely version 11, may struggle or flat-out fail to connect to Microsoft Office and Exchange mailboxes. That's a rather annoying pain for anyone working in a typical Windows-based work environment. The Cupertino idiot-tax operation admitted this week that iOS 11 contains a bug that potentially …
"We use Office 365 at work for email and calendaring"
You have my pity...
In the mean time, looks like the iOS 11 bug is not a universal problem. This is probably why it ended up in the release. "Not enough end-user beta testing"
[still needs fixing, though]
I have to wonder if the reason for fail is (another example of) Micro-shaft NOT following the RFC's...
(the MSDN web server didn't properly support decade(s) old RFC requirements for downloading a 'byte range' until early this year, meaning that people with slower connections would NEVER be able to download, following the [smart?] decision to obliterate the "special" ActiveX control that COULD do this... so now I can 'hack' it and use wget to get anything >1Gb in size, which I have - anyway, that's ONE recent example of "we're microsoft, we invent our OWN standards; world, follow us")
Loses them credibility though. I used to come here because the articles were a fun take on serious topics - and with enough intelligence behind them to challenge our thinking. These days I still come here for the fun, but the intelligence is frequently lacking.
Case in point. This 'bug' in iOS11 could well be on the Microsoft side; in fact given that it's not affecting all iOS devices this is a significant probability.
Also; "you can't fully turn off Bluetooth and Wi-Fi because they're needed for file and smart watch synchronization." just simply isn't true. The radios can be fully turned off by using Airplane mode, or by going into settings and turning them off there.
What pisses me off most about this is that in my view Apple fucked up. It's a damn stupid decision to not have the control center buttons turn the radios off fully - and by reporting this honestly, people might take it seriously and put pressure on Apple to fix it. But because journos are turning it into panicky FUD in a race for headlines ("RADIOS CAN'T EVER BE TURNED OFF OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!") the issue is becoming clouded.
And once again. 'Cupertino idiot-tax corporation' is just fucking stupid and insulting - not to Apple, but to Apple customers. Like somebody calling El Reg a 'Brainless cretin-attracting News Outlet'.
Airplane mode was my first thought. If they broke Airplane mode then what about planes that insist on no WiFi? So that was mis-information. However "Cupertino idiot-tax" is about right. Apple's main market is people who find computers too complicated and want it made simple. For this you pay extra. When I have an idiot customer I encourage them to buy Apple. They ask if it's the best and I say no, it's not and it's overpriced for what it does but it's perfect for you because you stressed how ease of use was the most important thing.
"Apple's main market is people who find computers too complicated and want it made simple. For this you pay extra. When I have an idiot customer I encourage them to buy Apple. They ask if it's the best and I say no, it's not and it's overpriced for what it does but it's perfect for you because you stressed how ease of use was the most important thing."
So your view is that customers who say ease of use is the most important thing are idiots? You don't fucking deserve customers.
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"And once again. 'Cupertino idiot-tax corporation' is just fucking stupid and insulting - not to Apple, but to Apple customers. Like somebody calling El Reg a 'Brainless cretin-attracting News Outlet'."
If it weren't for the Silver Badge, I'd ask if you were new around here...
”If it weren't for the Silver Badge, I'd ask if you were new around here...”
No, not new :) just a little weary of the same old gags. Call this one a personal crusade if you will; I don’t like the carefully considered purchasing decisions I (and many others) make being called idiotic - as though we were just following the shiny. My company has saved over $100m in maintenance and support costs over the last five years since switching to Apple - 95% of our support is now self-service, and the device lifecycle is now 5 instead of 3 years. So people saying the purchasing price is an idiot tax can fuck right off back to Windowsville, because it saves us a fortune.
Fnarr harrumph victor meldrew damn kids grumble rant.
@Lord Elpuss
I wish I could give you more than one update. Now, I appreciate that the El Reg exists to "bite the hand that feeds IT" but I do wish that that didn't mean sometimes turning off journalistic skills. Like actually telling the truth in the article, rather than racing for the bottom with clickbait.
"I have to wonder if the reason for fail is (another example of) Micro-shaft NOT following the RFC's..."
You'd have thought that some muppet in Apple might just have thought about testing iOS 11 properly... Nothing to do with Microsoft - it's apple's product and they're responsible for it.
Just another fanboy who will blame M$ even though it's Apple's fault. Sheesh
Works fine for me. Office 365, been on every beta since 4. I have seen a couple emails not send, but they show in the outbox. Just quickly resend them and all is good.
BTW, people in the real world just use Slack these days or some other messenger program, email is dumb ;-P I'll get my coat
This article isn't written for people who have avoided the bug. It's written for people hit by the bug who want to know WTF is going on. And check the link - Apple admits there is a problem.
Also, ppl saying their gear works - are you using the Outlook app? That app is crippled: check out the reviews for it. The UI is mashed beyond repair. That's not a great UX for ppl.
There's no sensationalism going on here. iOS 11 doesn't fully work with Microsoft's software - Apple says as much. If it works for you, great. Judging by the stats on this article, millions disagree that all is ok.
C.
This article isn't written for people who have avoided the bug. It's written for people hit by the bug who want to know WTF is going on. And check the link - Apple admits there is a problem.
But not so helpful for people like me who are wondering whether to advise others to update or not.
Also, ppl saying their gear works - are you using the Outlook app? That app is crippled
That wasn't made clear in the article, which seemed to focus on server compatibility. And now I'm left wondering if the problem only occurs when using the Outlook app.
”Judging by the stats on this article, millions disagree that all is ok.”
Stats will say what you want them to say. In this case, I’m betting that all they will show is that a sensationalist headline draws in the punters. If you post an article with the headline “Mars Rover discovers Princess Diana naked in a crater” it will certainly get clicks - but the stats don’t validate the headline, and when people discover it was tosh they’ll be less inclined to come back next time.
This is how great websites die.
are you using the Outlook app? That app is crippled: check out the reviews for it. The UI is mashed beyond repair.
I looked and found:
iStore - rated 4.6 out of 5
http://thetechnologygeek.org/outlook-mail-app-review/ - positive review (mar 2017)
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-releases-new-outlook-for-ios-and-android-redesigned-conversations-and-account-switcher/ - positive review (August 2017)
Also according to the MS KB article (https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/3296291 ):
"This issue occurs because the Mail app on iOS 11 is not compatible with Outlook.com, Office 365, or Exchange Server 2016 running on Windows Server 2016." and Not with the MS Outlook app communicating with MS mail services.
Whilst the Outlook app does have it's limitations, my (non-IT) partner and her (non-IT) colleagues seem to be able to use it without additional assistance.
The Outlook app on iOS is not crippled...I'm not even sure what that means. The reviews for it show it at 4.5 stars on both the App Store and PCMag, so not sure where else to look for scathing reviews. I'm an IT professional and I use it daily and it works great.
And this is from a long-time MS hater (still am to a large extent), but O365 and the Outlook app on iOS (and even Mac) are rock solid these days. I can't find much to hate there.
Looks like some people haven't considered the possibility of interactions between Apple's mail handling and various configuration settings (and/or anything else that writes anything anywhere in memory).
I've seen this sort of thing before with one flavour of iOS talking to vanilla SMTP/IMAP (no MS involved). In that case some people would find their blingphone randomly lost its mail settings and had to have them all entered again. Didn't affect everyone, just some. Never did figure out what was different for those with the problem (actually, I couldn't be arsed, I just sniggered after I got off the call
telling them what configuration values to enter).
Probably a random heisenbug somewhere. Or some configuration setting partially stomping on another configuration setting. Or something like that. It's software. If it's not done well then it exhibits behaviour as random and inexplicable as Donald Trump's tweets because something, somewhere, is doing the wrong thing to something else when it shouldn't.
These things happen. Older hands understand that "I'm not having a problem with X" does not mean that there isn't a problem with X that affects some people in some poorly-understood circumstances.
Well, my work has said not to upgrade. We access the Outlook app on some company shell that takes over your mobile. It really only affects the US, though. The company policy is BYOD (or "fuck you, get your own phone or be fired"), so mostly it's the US people who have Apples. The rest of us have whatever was cheap and shiny at the time (some lowlife Android unlikely to work beyond the current operating system!).
Anti-competitive behaviour.
where's a regulator when you need one
Regulators would be applicable to open standards. Exchange is a proprietary standard, with published interfaces. If Microsoft makes changes on the fly, that's their prerogative (and their problem, when you consider interoperability). Might not be to everyone's liking, but that's what happens when de facto monopolies develop.
I upgraded yesterday and works fine with my home and work Exchange server.
Then again not using Exchange 2016 personally and neither does work.Must be certain instance cases.
There is always issues with the x.0 version of the new iOS, i'm sure lots of bugs will be fixed in the x.1 release (there are a few). As Apple quickly pushes out updates to supported devices, everyone will get the fix.
"...* Which apparently forces me to use the Samsung email client, on the corporate phone..."
To he honest I much prefer the Samsung email client over that god awful third party abomination of Outlook that MS apparently bought in.
The problem isn't universal. It's more a iOS11/Server 2016 interropability issue. Clearly Microsoft's servers aren't all on the latest version of Windows Server.
support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4043473/you-can-t-send-or-reply-from-outlook-com-office-365-or-exchange-2016-i
Reminds me of the EHLO farce that Exchange 5.5 did - replied with the list of facilities that Exchange supposedly supported in E5.5 - including pipelining. Which it didn't actually support.
Which is why all the emails from our SMTP hub to the (newly aquired) office in Austria were failing. Our Solaris boxes were assuming that E5.5 did pipelining (after all, it said so!) and using it to send the emails.
Which E5.5 proptly discarded.
It wouldn't suprise me if IIS on Server 2016 didn't do something non-standards compliant with HTTP/2 that broke things.
Some of us would consider Microsoft the idiot tax operation, just for corporate types. For what it's worth, the folks I work for are still on Exchange Server 2013, which offers (well, forces) an IMAP server as well as the odious Exchange tool-for-bothering-people-and-preventing-their-getting-serious-work-done (bingledy-beep, Insert Name Here). Most of us use the IMAP option, an it appears to work fine under iOS 11. Maybe it's a 2016-only issue?
Same here since first public beta and now the official. Maybe Apple’s testing over every device/iOS permutation isn’t 100%, but clearly neither is Reg’s gathering of evidence before scaremongering.
I know there are lots of comments on here about the Daily Mail, but i’m sure they weren’t recommendations about how to report on “stories”.
Don’t get me wrong, i’ve seen this happen once today on my own phone, but sending it again worked fine. Sheesh, chill out guys...
> El Reg has already sounded the alarm about potential pitfalls in the update: it won't run any of your older 32-bit-only apps
Well done the Reg for alerting us to stuff that was announced several years ago. Clap. ... Clap.
Being snarky is one thing, being smug through disingenuity is another. Check yourselves.
And I've been using iOS11 happily with and in-house Exchange 2016 server all the way back to developer beta 1 in June with no problems whatsoever so it must be some weird specific combination of factors bug.
Oh an as an aside, contrary to what the article says it's possible to disable Bluetooth and Wifi completely from the settings app - in fact the page which the article links to explains exactly how to do it at the bottom.
You must be new here. About the only "vendor" they don't do that to when something half works is to the Linux kernel developers. And that's usually because the use case that gets affected is something on the far edges. They bitch about MS, Apple, Oracle, HP, etc. All the time.
In other words, the iJunk vendor isn't special for getting snark.
Just tested with accounts on Exchange 2010 and 2016 servers - no drama whatsoever. I'm not saying that nobody is having problems, but to say that it's a universal issue is completely unfounded. My money is on some sort of misconfiguration on the phone or server side.
The continued race to the bottom in El Reg persists, I see.
You of course can completely turn off Bluetooth / WiFi, in the Settings app. Control Centre does the rules-based "sleepy services" thing, which only supports the Apple proximity device detection features for stuff like Continuity or Airdrop. It'll probably solve more support queries than it generates, even if I personally don't think it's a good idea. And yes, airplane mode works normally.
But hey, thanks to warning us of the perils of the death of 32-bit advertised and warned about since 2014, a bug for some users (myself not included) with Exchange and a Control Centre oddity that most people won't even notice. For sure, iOS 11 truly is a catastrophe.
(Sent from the department of "why do I people come out with this rubbish"?)
Hey Andrew - it's Chris from Drobe. Remember those RISC OS days? Ah yeah. Now I'm at El Reg. Lol!?
Anyway. Thanks for reminding ppl about the extended iOS settings to actually switch off radio comms. We linked to Apple's instructions, so no foul there.
"The continued race to the bottom in El Reg persists"
The fact that we're the most read in the enterprise IT space, and that we're making year-upon-year growth in ad revenue and profit, suggests you're full of shit, Andrew.
C.
Well, Chris, going by the vast majority of comments on this thread the article was widely regarded as a combination of old news, sensationalist muckraking and outright fallacy. As many above have indirectly pointed out - when in a hole, prudence suggests you should stop digging.
And I’m speaking honestly as a longtime Reg loyalist who has relied on you to understand what’s really going on in IT for going on seven years now.
"we're making year-upon-year growth in ad revenue and profit,
Which, as I'm sure you recognise, are not an indicator of quality or journalistic ability."
The thing is, the very fact that he brought it up is a strong indicator that he does _not_ so recognise. Indeed, it is a marker indicating a quite different state of mind.
It is also a firm indicator that it might, just might, be a Very Bad Idea to even think about whitelisting El Reg on my adblocker. One wonders exactly how deep the ad cesspit goes at El Reg... but not enough to turn the adblocker off and find out.
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It is all about clicks, ad views and the rest.
Sensationalist headlines get more of the above than good news.
Can you imagine this site (or any other for that matter) headlining a story.
"Apple IOS Upgrade Success!"
No you can't. It is all about negativity.
Once you understand that you can get on quite happily.
"Can you imagine this site (or any other for that matter) headlining a story.
"Apple IOS Upgrade Success!""
Yes, I can imagine several thousand Mac-centric sites saying exactly that, even if the update in question accidentally summoned Cthulu into the front room and made him eat your cat ("The new unwanted cat elimination feature promises to be a game changer").
They actually linked to Apple's support pages saying there was an issue. I clicked on that, as so many commentards said it was working fine for them. And Apple's blub was completely non-specific, giving no clue as to whether this was a blanket problem or just affecting one user. And giving no way to find out if it would hit you - and of course you can't roll-back Apple updates if it doesn't.
Perhaps Apple might have communicated better?
ElReg is surely *reporting* what has been published?
Kudos to Apple for taking the cautious approach by admitting potential problems. Imagine what would happen if there was a problem which hadn't been highlighted.
High-5's all round then.
"ElReg is surely *reporting* what has been published?"
Yup, that's largely how news works. Otherwise newspapers would basically just be long-form essays about what the journalists did over the weekend, tbh. Kind of like the Guardian is nowadays.
The fact it's on Apple's own website does kinda put the kybosh on the argument that this is just El Reg pouring negativity on the glorious Eighth Coming of the Jesus Phone, though.
So some users are having issues connecting to Exchange after upgrading to a new OS. No big deal. It's not like Microsoft fucked up network connectivity in Windows 10 when it had worked perfectly in previous versions of Windows for over 20-years or so either.
Oh, hang on...
Mrs. Bunch uses Yahoo mail on her iPad. One of my e-mail accounts is the backup for that Yahoo account. A week or two ago, I started receiving messages from Yahoo, warning that as of September 20th, Yahoo mail messages could not be read on an iPad running iOS 8.0. I decided to take no action, because:
1. it wasn't clear to which Yahoo account they referred;
2. Mrs. Bunch's iPad had long been running iOS 9, not iOS 8;
3. they had not bothered to inform her; and
4. sufficient unto the day...
Came the day, and what I expected did not happen. Instead, all of Mrs. Bunch's Yahoo mail, excluding the Sent folder, disappeared, in front of her eyes. I confirmed this was real and not an iPad-artifact by logging into the account on a laptop. It turns out that if you have a Yahoo account, and your e-mail disappears, they have a standard interaction that no human need ever interfere with, to request the recovery of your e-mail. Whether this is reassuring (as in, good customer service) or scary (as in, your e-mail disappears from their software so often that they have to have a robocall to fix it), is up to the reader.
The Yahoo auto-responder said to check back in 8 hours. In the meantime, I tried to install the iOS 10.2.1 package which my dear wife had in Settings. iOS returned the message that it was unable to continue: verification was impossible as I was not connected to the internet. "What really happened", I think, was that Apple had withdrawn the plagued 10.2.1 update and was unable to verify the files for that reason. I erased the 10.2.1 update. It strikes me that proper procedure would have been for Apple itself to tag or erase an update which could never be used. Then I requested an update, which turned out to be iOS 11. There was never a choice to install any level other than 11. Installation went OK, and when it came time to verify the update package, of course the iPad was connected to the internet.
Back to Yahoo. After close to a day, the e-mail in the folders seemed to have returned. But not yet the Inbox. All it holds is the e-mails that came in after the disappearance. In the midst of my wife's trauma, I was entertained to see an article that told of iOS 11 and e-mail problems. This is our version. iOS version: impedimental.
Outlook and Exchange mail actually works _better_ under iOS 11 than it had before. In times past I had no end of problems with Apple Mail, and with Microsoft Outlook, and often had to drop into (ick!) OWA. Both Mail and Outlook work fine, I haven't had to go near OWA since upgrading.
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