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back to article Nokia details 808 Pureview release

Nokia has said the 808 Pureview - its Symbian-running smartphone with a stupendous 41Mp snapper - will hit shop shelves in the UK later this week. The Finnish firm confirmed the 808 will roll out on 30 June, with an unlocked, Sim-free launch price just shy of the £500 mark. Nokia 808 Symbia 3 camera phone While the 808 …

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  1. James 47
    Facepalm

    Oooer

    I was going to get this when it was first announced but since then I'm skeptical about bugs being fixed since Nokia handed over all Symbian development to Accenture, who then off-shored it to India and China. What to do??? I've no interest in WP.

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    1. john.w
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      Re: Oooer

      Don't worry, I hear the RBS off-shored their software support to India without any problems.

      17 0
    2. the-it-slayer
      Reply Icon
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Oooer

      iPhone! It'll solve all your problems =). Ask Paris, she's inspecting one for you right now.

      0 3
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oooer

      Companies are off-shoring software development to China now ? Oh my. Hardware production - fine, software production ? At least in India the main language of commerce is English (even if pronunciation isn't perfect).

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      1. James 47
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        Re: Oooer

        Yes, China is the new India. The Phillipines will follow too.

        True story: When the Nokia folk decided to sell Symbian development to Accenture, Nokia's Chinese employees were in uproar as apparently Accenture has terrible reputation over there. They all received massive bonuses to keep them happy.

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    4. JDX Gold badge
      Reply Icon

      What to do???

      How about wait until it's launched, reviewed, and tested before deciding to buy one or not.

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      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: What to do???

        Look at Indian review websites, it's already out there.

        0 0
    5. Anonymous Coward 101
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      Re: Oooer

      Yes, because Nokia were diligent in fixing bugs in Symbian before it was handed to Accenture?

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      1. James 47
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        Re: Oooer

        To be fair, they improved a lot. The Symbian roadmaps were looking good and Belle is actually quite good. My issue is that the people now responsible for fixing bugs in code they're unfamiliar with and patterns they're likely to be unfamiliar with. But hey, code is just code, isn't it?

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        1. Andy Nugent
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          Re: Oooer

          They won't be unfamiliar with the code, part of the Symbian outsourcing was that Accenture took some of the Nokia staff on.

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  2. James 51

    i just ordered a new blackberry (N900 is starting to show its age), wonder if this going going to be picked up by the networks or not.

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  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "a 4in, 360 x 640 display"

    Hah, no thanks. My camera has a better screen than that.

    2 2
    1. pear
      Reply Icon

      'tis odd

      For a phone with such an impressive camera th decision to use such a screen is a bit baffling. One can only assume power savings and/or lack of gpu grunt?

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      1. Andy Nugent
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        Re: 'tis odd

        Or the fact that's all Symbian supports?

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        1. Nigel Whitfield.
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          Re: 'tis odd

          Oddly, nope - it can support higher; the E6 for example manages 640x480 on a smaller screen. But I think one of the possible pitfalls is that, while the OS can support better, many apps may have been coded on the assumption that it wasn't - hence some E6 owners have found some apps don't work so well on it.

          And, of course, with Symbian effectively knifed in the back, I would imagine many developers may not want to make the effort to rewrite their apps. A new flagship phone that ran fewer apps than last year's models would probably annoy some of those who'll buy it because (or in spite of) the OS.

          So, that, and probably a lower BOM perhaps nudged in the direction of keeping things as they are, which is a shame.

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        2. Adam Hammerton
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          Unhappy

          Re: 'tis odd

          Symbian can support various resolutions (e.g. E6 - 640 x 480). It's just that nokia have had there head so far up their own arse for so long that didn't spot the need to move on. Now that Symbian's EOL'd it would be pointless to introduce bigger resolutions as it would bugger up existing apps and devs aren't exactly queuing out the door to write new ones.

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    2. ballistic_hedonistic
      Reply Icon
      Stop

      Yes, but your camera probably doesn't have phone on it.

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  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Premium Price

    Camera - Yes

    Hardware - no (Arm 11 processor, hello 3 years ago)

    Software - Defiantly not, platform burnt, development shelved, poor apps and worse support.

    2 2
  5. spegru
    WTF?

    you'd think that

    at least they'd take off the factory screen protector for the publicity shot!

    3 0
    1. TheRealRoland
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      Happy

      Re: you'd think that

      I think it's a photo instead of a see-through screen protector...

      0 0
  6. jason 7
    FAIL

    But it's not really 41MP is it!

    Just market BS at it's best.

    It would be cool in a manufacturer could make a truly decent 4.1MP camera on a phone let alone 41MP.

    1 6
    1. James 51
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      Re: But it's not really 41MP is it!

      I thought the point was the extra pixels went into making a good 5mp image rather than taking photos in 37mp?

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      1. Giles Jones Gold badge
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        Re: But it's not really 41MP is it!

        Sounds like interpolation to me, albeit using multiple exposures merged into one.

        0 2
    2. Jason Hindle Silver badge
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      Re: Erm yes it is

      If you want it to be. OTOH you can sacrifice those pixels for better noise and dynamic range characteristics. I'd expect a 5MP file from this snapper to produce a decent A3 ballpark print though.

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      1. jason 7
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        Re: Erm yes it is

        But if you are marketing this as a 41MP camera to the great unwashed then surely you should be offering 41MP images as the end result?

        If not Trading Standards hassles ahoy.

        If the end photo comes in as a 5MP size image that's going to disappoint some folks.

        Like I said, marketing BS. Instead they should have said "This phone uses an over sized sensor to provide better fidelity 5MP images with greater clarity, depth and less noise.

        1 6
        1. Andy Nugent
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          Re: Erm yes it is

          You can choose to output the 1:1 pixels if you want, which results in 34 or 38 MPixel images depending on the aspect ratio (Nokia have released a paper detailing the tech), so yes you're right that you can't output 41 MPixel images, but you can easily choose not to have the scaled down ones.

          However, I think one of the main selling points is that you either get digital zoom that's reasonable quality (as it's not stretching the image) or you get low noise 3/5/8 MPixel images due to the over sampling.

          3 0
        2. Neil 7
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          Re: Erm yes it is

          @Jason: Good luck with Trading Standards. The 808 does have a 41MP sensor - the fact not all of those 41MP pixels are used to construct a photograph is irrelevant in terms of Trading Standards as the description IS entirely accurate.

          4 0
    3. Dave 126 Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      Re: But it's not really 41MP is it!

      FFS, it isn't rocket science.

      Constraints: A small, compact device that is often subject to knocks and shocks.

      Therefore: Don't use moving parts or big lumps of glass.

      Things to help us cheat: People tend to take close-up pictures indoors in low light. People tend to take pictures of more distant objects in bright daylight. Please users 80% of the time.

      Solution: Interpolate full sensor in low light to reduce noise. Crop in full light to give 'zoom'.

      How would you achieve the same given the same design restraints? Don't tell us, but get yourself a patent or a NDA and talk to Samsung or whoever.

      2 0
    4. ballistic_hedonistic
      Reply Icon

      Re: But it's not really 41MP is it!

      The max image resolution once the aspect ratio is factored in is 38MP if you turn off the pureview setting. The phone has a secondary processor dedicated to compressing the image into a "pureview" 5MP or 8MP image, which ever you choose. Each "pureview" pixel in the new 5/8MP image is an amalgamation of a number of other pixels. The final "pureview" image is noise free according to Nokia/reviews I've read. You can shoot in 38MP but that wasn't Nokia's intention when they made it.

      Also if you visit the Nokia tube on YouTube there is a video thanking the 400 hundred people that have been involved in the development of the camera tech over the last 5 years. It's state-of--the-art technology, it's true and blatant innovation and that's why it costs £499.

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  7. Richard Barnes

    Or....

    .. if you're that keen on photography you could buy a camera. Just a thought.

    4 1
    1. Richard Scratcher
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      Gimp

      Re: Or....

      Weirdo!

      2 0
    2. jason 7
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      Re: Or....

      Yes good luck to the 200 or so folks that actually buy this phone.

      Especially as it wont have Instagram to instantly crapolate their already crappy photos.

      I despair that the early 21st century is going to be recorded visually by crappy pictures that had people had to pay to have them developed, they never would have taken them in the first place.

      Good old film was a great filter and defense against having to sit through 566 holiday snaps of a two week holiday.

      0 1
      1. werdsmith Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Or....

        Sold far more than 200,000 already in its launch markets.

        Nokia are trying to innovate and push the envelope and improve phone cameras. Can't see a negative there.

        Of course, if you prefer to pay for processing of accidental pictures of your feet , your thumb, ceilings etc?

        0 0
  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yawn

    wake me up when they release it running Windows Phone 8

    1 2
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yawn

      It will be obsolete and non-upgradable to Windows Phone 9, return of the Jedi thou.

      0 1
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yawn

        Not upgradable to Windows Phone 9? Good to see Microsoft taking the Android approach then....

        0 0
  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's Going To Sell Really Well !

    Like pork sausages at Ramadan.

    0 1
  10. Frederick Tennant

    Oh Dear!

    Poor old Nokia, It looks like they will go into free fall, if they don't get their act together, and the only way out is "Android" Yep I said it, windows has abandon them, (No update for windows os was the last straw) at least Android works. Sell your stocks people.

    1 4
  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What is it?

    It would appear that it is a camera that just happens to, maybe, make phone calls.

    All it shows is that Nokia has lost its way and so the downward spiral continues.

    1 1
    1. Dave 126 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: What is it?

      >All it shows is that Nokia has lost its way and so the downward spiral continues.

      Really? Even in all this Elop-era mess, Nokia still have a reputation for good reception and clear phone calls, and also for having best cameras found in phones. These are its current strengths, since it has lost the rest. This new device plays on its current strengths, since they can't differentiate themselves in other ways.

      0 1
  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Here today, gone tommorrow

    Really, it's got to be pretty bad plan to buy any Nokia product right now, who knows if they will be around next week, let alone next year.

    I see their share price dropped another 12% yesterday...

    0 1
  13. R3x
    WTF?

    £500??!

    500 sim free? For real?

    £100 will get you a better phone (Huawei G300) which leaves you with 400 for an SLR.

    1 2
    1. Magnus_Pym
      Reply Icon

      Re: £500??!

      True you could carry a basic phone and an SLR and look like a stereotypical 90's Japanese tourist, not a good look in the office or customer's conference room. Your could also chose to carry a 80's ghetto blaster on your shoulder and an large scale road atlas if you want. Or you could have a camera phone in your pocket everywhere you go that takes reasonable quality snaps and video snippets and has some other built in features that can be quite nice to have.

      1 1
      1. what_fresh_hell_is_this?
        Reply Icon

        Re: £500??!

        Magnus, you have made me larf.

        0 0
      2. GitMeMyShootinIrons
        Reply Icon

        Re: £500??!

        Magnus, my man! I'll take yo ghetto blaster! Bro, you might dig my Funky Ericsson T28.

        0 0
    2. Batesie
      Reply Icon
      Trollface

      Re: £500??!

      or get the same phone and a disney handheld game toy?? but most people prefer a single device to carry around (so get an iphone....)

      0 1
  14. Dave 126 Silver badge

    Comparison

    There has been a much-cited comparison with Lumix LX-5 (10 Megapixel, 1/1.6 sensor, F2 lens) which gives the nod in low light to the Nokia... However, in the test both cameras were at ISO 1600 but no mention was made of exposure time or of aperture settings. I would wait til all the information is in, though the Nokia does look promising.

    The LX-5 is bulkier than most compact cameras but slips into a jacket pocket, and can let you get away with ISO 800 at 1/25seconds at F2 in say, a poorly lit beer garden at night.

    I know there has been a blind test against an Olympus PEN E1 micro 4/3rds camera... this time for the zoom. No mention is made of the lens on the Olympus. The Nokia holds up very well, and was voted the best - though the

    Olympus images are slightly sharper and better white-balanced.

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