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back to article Unit4 software's budget bungle leaves schools counting the cost

A letter from a former government minister to the head of education for one of the UK's largest local authorities reveals the financial disruption caused by the implementation of a Unit4 HR, finance, and payroll system. According to the letter from Esher and Walton MP Dominic Raab, the troubled implementation of payroll in …

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  1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    British

    Does it mean we can't create an ERP system that is better than this?

    How about just using Excel?

    "we have experienced some issues"

    "a number of workarounds"

    "making good progress"

    "number of errors"

    "working through some of the issues"

    "we resolve any errors"

    "we are sorry for any inconvenience"

    "we will continue to work"

    That could be in a bs bingo.

    1 2 Reply
  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "the new ERP software – which replaced an SAP system"

    Far from me to say that SAP is the best, but if you've got something that works, why do you replace it with something else before TESTING the something else to make sure it works ?

    8 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "the new ERP software – which replaced an SAP system"

      The purchasing process for these big expensive systems seems to be:

      1. Buy system which does X

      2. Spend millions on making system do Y instead

      Or: buy a solution then spend ages finding out what the problem is. Or: ready, fire, aim.

      7 0 Reply
      1. abend0c4 Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: "the new ERP software – which replaced an SAP system"

        You missed:

        3. GOTO 1

        2 0 Reply
    2. JimC
      Reply Icon

      if you've got something that works, why do you replace it

      When your old system is running on antique hardware that's no longer maintained, the software version is no longer supported, and the whole system is hanging on by the skin of its teeth, begrudgingly and minimally assisted by vendors who are only really interested in having you replace it, and you really don't have any choice but to spend a damn fortune you'd much rather spend on education or social care or something else that actually helps people.

      3 0 Reply
      1. Lee D Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: if you've got something that works, why do you replace it

        And at that point you do the real run on the old system, and a dummy run on the new system, and you give the junior finance assistant both sets of data and ask them to highlight ANY differences.

        And if you can't do a dummy run on the new system - bam... you have your first feature demand before you part with any money.

        2 0 Reply
      2. yetanotheraoc Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: if you've got something that works, why do you replace it

        "When your old system is running on antique hardware that's no longer maintained, the software version is no longer supported, and the whole system is hanging on by the skin of its teeth..."

        ... the same management that neglected their prior installation suddenly gets a clue how to manage critical IT resources? Didn't think so.

        0 1 Reply
    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: "the new ERP software – which replaced an SAP system"

      "why do you replace it with something else before TESTING the something else to make sure it works ?"

      Project running late, no time for testing.

      1 0 Reply
    4. pig
      Reply Icon

      Re: "the new ERP software – which replaced an SAP system"

      Because Unit 4 ERP / Agresso / U4BW - however you call it - is cheaper on paper.

      And then you start the implementation, and here you should expect 2-3x your estimated costs.

      But they don't.

      So once they get passed 2x cost the pressure to 'just go live with something' becomes too much for them.

      Also, they tend to have bad staff, being a public sector big project that is locally managed.

      I was hired to a public sector implementation of Unit 4 (not this one) but you will know which one (if you worked on it) when I say the sentence:

      "The Programme Manager hired ALL of her friends as Project Managers, despite none of them having experience or qualifications".

      It went as well as you would expect.

      And no, I did not stay long!

      2 0 Reply
  3. Tim99 Silver badge
    Joke

    Really?

    I'm retired, but I think I could have restarted the company and come in at about £1 million. My proposal:-

    Consultancy and Software Design (me), £950,000; two junior contracted programmers, £50,000; software licences (SQLite and Python) £0;

    Hardware: 1 Raspberry Pi 5 with case, power supply, USB SSD, UPS and cabling, £300. Obviously, this is meant to be a professional and reliable system with guaranteed uptime - So my hardware proposal might need upgrading...

    I'd consider adding a backup/failover system, so another £300 to duplicate the hardware - See icon >>=====>

    9 0 Reply
    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Really?

      Your contract would fall under IR35, so you have to at least double the fee.

      6 1 Reply
    2. LybsterRoy Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Really?

      Yes but at the time this was specced it would have had to be the RPi4 - so you'd need two.

      1 0 Reply
      1. Tim99 Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Really?

        Yeah, but I would have specced it with 1 or 2 GB of memory, so I could have "saved" £10-20 on each one; and as they run cooler, I could have bought cheaper cases...

        0 0 Reply
  4. SickNick

    Over the Horizon

    At least they're not immediately blaming the schools involved and sending the Heads to prison for false accounting. Progress of sorts.

    7 0 Reply
    1. Mike007 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Over the Horizon

      There was a bug in the code that was meant to handle teachers who had left - it was not meant to actually pay them, merely claim it had so they could prosecute for not repaying the stolen funds.

      0 0 Reply
      1. ldo Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: so they could prosecute for not repaying the stolen funds.

        #TooSoon?

        0 0 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    Who implemented the payroll system?

    “MP calls on council to ensure education teams can plan their financial futures”

    What?

    1 0 Reply
  6. Tubz Silver badge

    How many leavers does this place get to cause such a mismanagement of payroll?

    1 0 Reply
    1. JimC
      Reply Icon

      How many leavers.

      It is, I believe, the biggest payroll in South East England.

      1 0 Reply
      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: How many leavers.

        All the more reason to do the job professionally.

        2 0 Reply
  7. IGotOut Silver badge

    Wrong, wrong, wrong!

    "Some level of disruption was expected throughout such a fundamental transition to a new system,

    No.

    If you have done your fucking job correctly, their should be no noticeable disruption.

    If we can transfer a contact centre, over a year with all it's add ons, handling a 1.5 MILLION calls a month, running 24/7/365 and not drop a single fucking call, then you have no excuse.

    What it takes, is a huge amount of prep work, a mountain of installation planning set up and this is the hard bit, testing, testing and more testing. And after testing, checking, checking and even more checking.

    These days it seems to be...looks ok. Lets go live and any issues we can sort them as and when we can be bothered.

    3 0 Reply

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