arduinna: Katara from Avatar, pointing at a waterbending scroll (RTFM)
[personal profile] arduinna
Okay, not really an ode. But a gentle lament in the general direction of all my Chicago Manual of Style peeps.

Starting in a month or so, I'll have to use a house style that's based firmly on AP. :(

For many years, my company's house style was based on a document I helped write, and every iteration of it had serial commas front and center - every time the company got bought or what have you, my little corner of it had either the only house style guide or the most complete one, and even if we were the little fish, it got adopted with just a few changes just because it existed, and that was one of the things we didn't budge on. (And other CMS-based guidelines as well - that was our base overall. But this is a specific lament.)

But we were recently bought by another, bigger company that actually believes inherently in style guides and had a very detailed one. Based on AP.

This was a big purchase, big enough that it's being treated more like a merger in terms of harmonizing processes, so our legacy editing team crossed our fingers and hoped (vainly - we knew it was vainly, but we had to hope!) that the other team would see the light and embrace the serial comma.

Spoiler: there was no embrace.

The new, combined style guide is being rolled out now after months of hashing out by people on both legacy teams, and the serial comma is right out. With the usual caveat of "unless it's necessary" but no acknowledgment that it's always necessary, because why on earth would you make people stop to parse a sentence they didn't have to? Argh.

Anyway. Sigh.

At least overall the two style guides were simpatico, and I like some of the changes that have been introduced. Not all, but some. And some of our legacy style made it in as well.

But our house style, their house style, and other house styles just work better with serial commas, dammit.

Date: 2023-03-01 04:40 am (UTC)
raine: (fairy in grass)
From: [personal profile] raine
Ugh, I feel you. I edit technical specifications and would die if I had to give up a serial comma. Especially with phrases like "plumbing piping", where we could be talking about plumbing, piping, both, or all three.

Date: 2023-03-01 05:38 am (UTC)
sakana17: lin nansheng tired and holding a pencil (rebel-lin-nansheng-pencil)
From: [personal profile] sakana17
Oh, you have my sincere sympathies. *clutches my Chicago Manual of Style* (My boss doesn't believe in serial commas, but is usually good about accepting the ones I edit into her documents.)

Date: 2023-03-01 08:02 am (UTC)
torch: Kurosaki Ichigo is grumpy. Strawberry background. (grumpier than you)
From: [personal profile] torch
Oh, this is a tragedy!

Date: 2023-03-01 12:13 pm (UTC)
umadoshi: (grammatical declaration of faith)
From: [personal profile] umadoshi
NOT OKAY. ;_;

Date: 2023-03-01 01:05 pm (UTC)
princessofgeeks: (Default)
From: [personal profile] princessofgeeks
well, at least you have the wiggle room of them acknowledging that it's sometimes necessary. AND YOU KNOW WHEN THAT IS FOR SURE!!!

So you can keep using it at least.

I feel your pain.

Date: 2023-03-01 02:22 pm (UTC)
nestra: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nestra
*sadface* Long live the Oxford comma.

Date: 2023-03-01 02:35 pm (UTC)
brightknightie: Stonetree and Norma looking at a CRT monitor (Computer)
From: [personal profile] brightknightie
>"...because why on earth would you make people stop to parse a sentence they didn't have to?"

Indeed! I never understand how this is not the guiding principle above all others. Of course what confuses readers changes over time -- apparently no one is confused by misuse of "that" for "who" anymore, oh, the humanity! and pluralizing the noun instead of just whipping out the singular "they" in every case is seen as pedantic ("he/she" and "s/he" died unmourned, even by me, while no one was looking) -- but surely reader comprehension should be the guiding light!

Date: 2023-03-01 05:34 pm (UTC)
the_shoshanna: CHarlie Brown yelling, "Has this world gone mad?" (world gone mad)
From: [personal profile] the_shoshanna
Oh noooo! I mean, I'm glad that some good changes and some good legacies are also in there, but! But but but!
Peter Ustinov retraces a journey made by Mark Twain a century ago. The highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector.

Date: 2023-03-01 11:13 pm (UTC)
gwyn: (OMG OH NOES)
From: [personal profile] gwyn
Ooohhh noooo. You have my deepest sympathies. Every time I have to switch to AP I groan inwardly. I keep thinking about trying to convince the magazine publisher to switch to Chicago, even though serial publications rarely use it.

Date: 2023-03-02 03:23 am (UTC)
klia: (scream)
From: [personal profile] klia
Eww, eww, eww... nooooo! Everything works better with serial commas! *clings to CMOS and flips AP stylebook the bird*

My deepest sympathies. ;__;

Date: 2023-03-02 03:06 pm (UTC)
ivyfic: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ivyfic
I come from a book publishing background and now do technical writing for accounting. Our firm style is no serial comma (and the head of the copyediting department is a very intimidating woman who comes from WSJ, so the style is very influenced by newspaper style). The maddening thing is our standard setting body uses serial commas, so in a publication, if we're quoting them, yes serial comma, and then if we restate the same thing not in a quote, no serial comma.
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