Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive206
The Rambling Man
[edit]| The Rambling Man is warned that continuing to use unnecessarily harsh language is likely to result in being blocked. No further action is taken. The WordsmithTalk to me 20:06, 14 December 2016 (UTC) |
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Request concerning The Rambling Man[edit]
The Rambling Man resigned their admin status during the Arbcom case in October. They now seem to be increasingly agitated about the performance of other admins. No doubt it is frustrating that they are no longer able to perform such tasks themselves. But comments of this kind do not seem civil and seem to be what Arbcom had in mind when when placing this sanction.
notification of The Rambling Man
Discussion concerning The Rambling Man[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by The Rambling Man[edit]Messing with the main page should not happen. If admins aren't fully commensurate with how to do this, they should leave it to others. Admins who have been asked to respond to questions, in particular relating to accusing editors of lying, before then blocking them need to be held accountable for their misbehaviour. Everything else I have to say has already be said at either my talk page, AN or ANI. P.S. I still want MikeV's previous enforcement notice to be redacted too. And given the block has clearly been deemed "premature" if not downright "incorrect" and/or "involved", we need to make sure MikeV doesn't make such mistakes in the future. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:16, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Bencherlite[edit]We have Template:Editnotices/Page/Template:In the news for a reason - to help admins know what to do / what not to do. Apparently the big red capital letters used for "ATTENTION" and the flashing image, File:Blinking Stop hand.gif, that it uses are not enough to draw some admins' attention to the three simple warnings underneath. Suggestions for how this edit notice can be improved would be welcomed, I'm sure. Perhaps the link to Wikipedia:In the news/Administrator instructions and Wikipedia:Main Page/Commons media protection need to be even bigger? In the meantime, admins not understanding that the main page is not the place to allow unprotected images *is* a big deal, given previous experience with unprotected images there and the instructions on how to do things, and I don't blame TRM for getting annoyed about this - particularly as this is not the only instance of unprotected main page images at ITN from the last few days. Nor do I blame TRM for getting annoyed about admins indicating that it's OK for admins who "don't know how do it" (not TRM's words) to make edits to the main page templates that need fixing by others who do know what they're doing. Robust and justified criticism of admins who edit our most high-profile page without following the long-standing instructions designed to help them is *not* the same as insulting or belittling. I'm commenting here rather than in the section for uninvolved administrators given my long-standing WP friendship with TRM. BencherliteTalk 00:37, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by WJBscribe[edit]I agree with Bencherlite. I am far more concerned about an admin having apparently added an unprotected image to the main page than with TRM for being forceful in pointing out the gaffe. We need admins to be careful editing the main page. That said I made the same mistake once - a fellow admin was kind enough to replace the unprotected image on commons with a photo of a piece of paper on which he'd written something along the lines of "Which idiot forgot to protect this image". I learned my lesson. I'm sure everyone involved in this incident has too. WJBscribe (talk) 00:49, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by 331dot[edit]I think it should be noted that TRM resigned his admin powers under threat of them being stripped from him. I don't see any insulting or belittling here, as Bencherlite and WJBscribe also state. I see annoyance, perhaps, but if TRM is going to be punished for being annoyed, then we all should be. Being annoyed is not the same thing as being insulting. 331dot (talk) 02:12, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Even if we accept that MikeV is not involved, he concedes that he wasn't aware of this discussion, and I think that was enough of a reason to reverse his block. 331dot (talk) 16:54, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Comment by Newyorkbrad[edit]This may be a bit off-topic, but can't someone just write a script or edit filter that would automatically prevent unprotected Commons images from being added to the main page, and thereby prevent that aspect of the problem from recurring? Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:38, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by EEng[edit]I share the concern about TRM's difficult mode of interation, but I'm almost as concerned about Mike V having interposed his own (not-always-unclouded) judgment even while this process is underway – six minutes, in fact, after the one admin who had commented here opined that action was inappropriate. Too often I've seen him lay his heavy hand on the block button from on high (including imposing a block – quickly overturned – on me). EEng 05:22, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Patar knight[edit]I'm not an uninvolved admin because I reverted Michael Hardy's addition of the unprotected image at ITN. Keeping unprotected images off the Main Page is very important and is repeatedly mentioned in the editnotice, ITN admin instructions, etc. It seems unfair to block TRM for expressing frustration at other people's inability/unwillingness to follow clearly those laid out directions. I think an exception to the arbcom remedy, so that TRM is allowed to reasonably criticize other users for clear failures to follow procedure, should be read in. At best the last comment deserved a warning. Blocking this quickly seems like jumping the gun.---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:36, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My Ken[edit]I don't believe that TRM is forbidden to "criticize other users for clear failures to follow procedure" or any other reason, he's "prohibited from insulting and/or belittling other editors." That's an entirely different animal, since one can criticize without insulting or belittling. I'm not making a judgement about whether TRM violated his sanction or not, just pointing out a relevant distinction. Concerning EEng's point, I think considering the recent dust-up between TRM and Mike V apparent on TRM's talk page, Mike V should probably have passed on blocking TRM, as his block raises the impression that it might have been motivated by bad feelings between them rather than by TRM's action, and this discussion was already open. It might be a good idea for Mike V to consider lifting the block and allowing the admins at AE to determine what action, if any, needs to be taken. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:00, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Fram[edit]Discussion started at WP:ANI#Admin accountability and involvedness. Basically (independently) mirroring BMKs points above. Fram (talk) 10:05, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Dweller[edit]
Statement by Andrew D.[edit]This is just the latest incident as, since the Arbcom case, TRM has shown no contrition, does not appear to accept the Arbcom rulings and his aggressive language seems just as bad as before. I agree with Lankiveil that telling KrakatoaKatie to "grow a pair" was quite unacceptable, especially as she is a woman. Her response to this tirade was "Well. I tried. Nice. Way to chase your new helpers off. – I'm out". This demonstrates the effect of such language – it drives people away. Sanctions are therefore appropriate. Andrew D. (talk) 12:07, 14 December 2016 (UTC)I prev Statement by Katie[edit]I wasn't pinged when TRM went on his little tirade, nor was I pinged about this AE request. If one is going to tell me to do the anatomically impossible, the least one can do is notify me. For the record, I didn't do anything wrong at the ITN template. I saw the call for assistance at ERRORS several days ago and, with a couple of other admins, decided to try to help. I fixed the blurb and declined to change the image because I wasn't sure if there was consensus to change a blurb as significantly as what was proposed. Before I made the changes, I pored over the ITN instructions for hours – hours, because I didn't want to make a mistake. I previewed the template about eight times before I saved it. I marked the items done/not done, and kept the tab open so I could refresh the page to make sure I didn't screw up. I don't use the watchlist (haven't for years and years because it got to be several thousand pages), so when someone comments under me and whines about a mistake, I assume they're talking to me. If I had made a mistake, I would expect to be told in civil terms. I've made lots of mistakes across this project and I've almost always been notified in a calm manner. I don't think that will happen while TRM is patrolling that page, so I won't edit there again. I have other areas in which I can work where I know my contributions are valued. As tantrums go, this isn't very bad. My children have done better. I get rape threats, so TRM really needs to up his game if he's going to make me lose sleep. I don't care if he's blocked or unblocked. I suggest, however, that he not come to AN shouting about the lack of admins at ERRORS again. He's not likely to find many takers. Katietalk 14:09, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Ivanvector[edit]The remedy invoked states that TRM "is prohibited from insulting and/or belittling other editors." I agree that Andrew Davidson's diffs show examples of The Rambling Man violating that remedy, and the remedy dictates that TRM "may be blocked" (emphasis mine). We ought to consider Andrew D.'s first two examples to be constructive criticism delivered by a frustrated editor (as other commenters have noted) in a matter of importance. The third example probably also qualifies, though the phrase "drive-by so-called admins" is belittling and does seem directed at particular users. Those three comments violate the letter of the remedy, but I can't imagine any other editor would earn a block for such mild comments and nor should TRM. However the fourth example, telling a female editor to "grow a pair" would be a borderline personal attack by any user. TRM, with an active remedy specifically prohibiting such comments, should earn an AE block for this comment. The purpose of that block does seem to have been served by Mike V's action, however. A note of clarification: if the committee determines that Mike V's (now overturned) block serves the purpose of a block that would have been warranted from this enforcement request, please specify whether Mike V's block counts as a first block under the remedy, or if in the committee's view TRM has not been blocked under the remedy. It's going to come up again. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:21, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Now I'm going to ramble on a bit about WP:INVOLVED, if you'll indulge me. It's important that administrators be seen as neutral, for the good governance of the project, however we sometimes apply INVOLVED too liberally. It appears to me that Mike V is considered involved because he posted an administrative warning on TRM's talk page. I'm sure there's more to it judging by the number of commenters, but if that is all there is to it, Mike V is not involved. Furthermore, and this is more to my upcoming point, if any genuinely neutral administrator would have come to the same action, then an involved administrator's action is justified notwithstanding INVOLVED, and I think that that is the case here. So we're saying that TRM's block should be overturned only because the blocking administrator was involved, not because the rationale behind the block was wrong. We currently have only 526 active administrators; this year there have been 62 fewer promotions than demotions, and that gap is widening. The number of administrators available to be "uninvolved" in any particular issue is rapidly declining. If this trend continues of procedurally reversing administrative actions not because they are wrong but only because they were done by involved administrators, we will very soon be facing a situation where there are no administrators capable of acting against certain users and in certain topic areas. I encourage the committee and the community as a whole to consider this. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:50, 14 December 2016 (UTC) trimmed for word count Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:03, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Jayron32[edit]I'm not sure, at this point, if we can or should do anything further here. This particular AE filing has been tainted by the bad block (which has recently been undone by consensus at a WP:AN discussion). Whether or not TRM should or should not have been blocked stopped being the issue when the blocking admin jumped the gun and blocked him unilaterally and in contravention of the early stages of this discussion. It may have played out that consensus would have eventually been that TRM was in violation, and that a block would have been merited, but we'll never know. Officially, IAR is the only rule I follow 100% of the time, and I've never been accused of following policy for policy's sake, but pragmatically, when one oversteps policy in THIS way, it muddies the water and makes just enforcement impossible. It seems to me that the only thing to do is to let this go at this point, don't re-block TRM regardless of whether he did or didn't merit it. Per WP:ROPE either TRM will abide by the terms of his sanctions, or he won't. If he does, than this block was unnecessary. If he doesn't, then another block will be coming. But the current CF in no way is resolvable, and we should just shut this down and call it a day. Let WP:ROPE be our guidance here... --Jayron32 14:09, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Banedon[edit]I'm of opinion this is similar to the examples I originally cited in the case request, and if this had happened prior to my filing the case I would've cited it as well. When the person you're talking to responds with "Welp. I tried. Nice. Way to chase your new helpers off" that must be a sign of going too far. Seriously TRM do you have to act like this ... your behavior on ITN improved to the point I was thinking of nominating you for adminship in a year's time, and then this happens ... as long as Katie and Michael Hardy fit WP:HERE, they, like the rest of us, are on your side. Do you really, really, have to bash them for trying to help? Banedon (talk) 14:43, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Mr Ernie[edit]I find the 4th diff to be a violation of TRM's sanctions against insulting or belittling others. In light of MikeV's block and the subsequent unblock, I would suggest that we call this "time-served" and issue a strongly worded warning against future behavior. TRM has requested additional admin support at these main page venues, but insulting and belittling those who actually attempt good faith edits there does not seem like a sustainable way to improve involvement. Mr Ernie (talk) 15:22, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Davey2010[edit]IMHO the 4th diff was a violation however because of the INVOLVED block I see no point in reblocking over it, Ofcourse like Jayron says had Mike not jumped the gun consensus may or may not have been to block but IMHO as it stands it's stupid to block someone, unblock them and then a few weeks later block them again ....., I would suggest we give TRM some rope (and a stern warning if it helps), close this and all move on. –Davey2010Talk 16:44, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Masem[edit]Involved only in so much as that I participate frequently at ITN. I think we all need to recognize editors are human and can make mistakes, even experienced ones. Yes, mistakes related to the main page are potentially more problematic, and editors are cautioned to avoid touching those templates if they are not sure on the process. But there is no need to chastise editors for a single mistake (its when it becomes a pattern after being toled about it before that we must become concerned), we're working collaboratively. I'm a bit worried about some of the above commentators putting the importance of the "sacred" nature of the main page over civility given the goals of this project. I would not say that the first three diffs are problematic on their own (others have shown the 4th being one of concern), but speaking as an ITN regular, TRM's attitude has started to creep up to where it was prior to the ArbCom case; it's not close, but the trend is very clear now. Otherwise ignoring the fourth diff, TRM should be TROUTED and reminded about the Arbcom case; but as to that 4th, I do feel a stronger statement should be made to caution TRM, but I don't have opinion if that should be anything more than a statement of concern to TRM. --MASEM (t) 17:05, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning The Rambling Man[edit]
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SPECIFICO
[edit]| No violation has occurred. No action taken. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:05, 15 December 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning SPECIFICO[edit]
It's almost certainly not a coincidence that SPECIFICO reverted my edits in particular. Other users have noticed SPECIFICO's pattern of "misguided...at best" misrepresentation of my words and requesting "retaliatory and unwarranted" sanctions against me; shortly before the reverts, SPECIFICO told another user "TTAAC needs to be blocked or banned." SPECIFICO's only other revert at 2016 United States election interference by Russia was of material I expanded. (SPECIFICO's interest in baiting me into a ban appears to be motivated by SPIs I filed against User:Oneshotofwhiskey; they were all vindicated and Oneshot was indeffed, but SPECIFICO characterized them as "paranoid conspiracy theories about opponents," after having previously opposed a topic ban related to Oneshot's conduct at Dinesh D'Souza and complimented Oneshot's "constructive and usually policy-based ... edits and comments"—like this and this, presumably.)
I am also concerned by SPECIFICO's penchant for immediately threatening others users with sanctions on dubious grounds—which SPECIFICO has done twice just within the past several hours; User:Soham321 previously criticized SPECIFICO's proclivity for "frivolous threats" here at AE. (Note that in none of these three instances did SPECIFICO actually follow through and report the user they threatened, while SPECIFICO now denies "that's a violation of ARBAP2 and you might be surprised one day to be called on the carpet. Do be careful" was intended as a threat.)TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 00:01, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning SPECIFICO[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SPECIFICO[edit]Statement by Sagecandor[edit]SPECIFICO and I were able to work things out [9], and I assume good faith that the notification is just a notification with no ill intentions. As for this arbitration enforcement report itself, I agree with the analysis by Dennis Brown at [10]. Sagecandor (talk) 01:05, 15 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by TheTimesAreAChanging[edit]@Dennis Brown: This is where I plead ignorance. Recall that I did not report these reverts for the very reason you describe. However, SPECIFICO recently filed a frivolous 1RR "report" against me on your talk page, even though they never explained what I had supposedly "reverted" in the first diff cited. User:Volunteer Marek—who later struck out his comment after realizing I did not make the revert in question—attempted to draw a distinction between what you call "a single revert that used two edits" and what he dubbed "two different reverts." In that case, SPECIFICO seemed content to threaten me merely for making more than one edit to an article, and continues to insist that a second, unspecified revert occurred. (Obvious Oneshot socks have had no luck finding anyone that agrees with SPECIFICO's assessment; as User:Hut 8.5 remarked: "If you're going to accuse people of 1RR violations then you need to show that the edits in question were reverts, that is they undid something someone else did. There's nothing necessarily wrong with editing the article twice in 24 hours if the edits aren't reverts.") I confess to being frankly baffled by the DS on American Politics, because there seems to be no consistent criteria for how they are applied in practice. SPECIFICO has twice reverted two distinct edits of mine in two different sections of two articles and faced no penalty—but that same user pushed hard to have me topic banned not for violating 1RR, but rather the additional stipulation "You ... must not reinstate any challenged (via reversion) edits without obtaining consensus" (which has been consistently abused by WP:BATTLEGROUND editors)—and, in your telling, came very close to succeeding (although non-admins were almost unanimously opposed). If I had made these reverts, it seems almost certain SPECIFICO would have reported me—after all, they've reported me for much less—and there's a very good chance I would not have escaped sanction. (Of course, the thrust of the complaint against me soon became a handful of uncivil edit summaries; should I add an appendix on uncivil remarks by SPECIFICO? Do you think I could get away with casually threatening editors the way SPECIFICO does, as documented above? How about the time SPECIFICO accused me of "tendentiously canvassing" another user by informing them of an SPI I had initiated against the IP they were interacting with? WP:CANVASS has a specific meaning, though I've never heard it applied to SPIs: Should SPECIFICO be allowed to use the word as a random insult if they have no intention of pursuing what would be a serious violation of Wikipedia policy? SPECIFICO has clearly been skirting on the edge of what is acceptable for a very long time now, and failing to warn against that sort of conduct will only encourage more of it.) So, you tell me: If these edits had been made by two different users, would SPECIFICO then have violated 1RR? What if SPECIFICO had reverted three or four edits of mine in quick succession? (Would that be "a single revert that used three or four edits"?) I'm deeply concerned that consistent standards are articulated here—not least of all because the total lack of consistency has allowed SPECIFICO to plausibly threaten users and coerce self-reverts even when the underlying policy rationale is far from obvious. (If SPECIFICO had asked me to self-revert rather than immediately running to you, I would have done so, even though I did nothing wrong.) It's as if the rules only apply to the outgroup, not the ingroup or the Wikilawyers; editors know where they stand and act accordingly.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 02:36, 15 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning SPECIFICO[edit]
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Tlroche
[edit]| Tlroche (talk · contribs) is banned indefinitely from all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, broadly construed across all namespaces. SashiRolls (talk · contribs) is indefinitely prohibited from commenting on AE requests to which they are not a party. T. Canens (talk) 21:29, 16 December 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Tlroche[edit]
Analysis by SashiRolls (talk · contribs) is wrong. Please see this explanation by Neutrality at [17], warning the user in question about misuse of word "slander". Sagecandor (talk) 17:39, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Tlroche[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by MrX[edit]This out of control editor has also been reported to WP:ANEW.This editor needs to be blocked, topic banned, or both. They are some sort of mission to promote Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, and I'm guessing they have a COI. They are brazenly ignoring multiple talk page warnings, edit summaries reverting their edits, article talk page discussion, and the prominent edit notice. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. Their reaction to a polite, non-template message with diffs from an admin asking them to be more careful: "false neutrality removed". I wonder if this time we could actually use AE as it's intended and have an admin take the appropriate action to stop the blatant POV pushing, edit warring, and incivility. AE does not require consensus among admins, or lengthy discussion. - MrX 17:11, 15 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by SashiRolls[edit]The merit of this case (or lack thereof) is best demonstrated by diff 4 where Sagecandor reproaches the accused (Tlroche) for saying they (Sagecandor) made a slanderous accusation. Careful analysis of the diffs provided by the accused show the accused to be right, Tlroche merely added a signature where Sagecandor forgot to sign. This case should not be decided without looking more carefully into the accuser's history, especially this case at ANI and this talk page deletion which together seem to indicate a strong aversion to transparency. (as in the bogus diff 4 & 5 above). SashiRolls (talk) 17:37, 15 December 2016 (UTC) Some characteristic diffs showing that Sagecandor is not at all averse to making personal attacks or denouncing people without transparency. (I'm not the only one who he's denounced without pinging -- more diffs available if necessary):
Knowing the terrain, I understand why Tlroche could become frustrated as many editors have on those pages where Sagecandor is most active. Cf. Jimbo Wales#Systematic problems at US-Russia articles, where nearly every page mentioned refers to this editor. (As has also been a recent trend on AE, if you look back through the recent bans & blocks. We mustn't forget [27] in addition to those SC mentions (at AE)... there is method to this, if the AE administrators are willing to take the time to look into it, it may save embarrassment later. ) SashiRolls (talk) 18:41, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Volunteer Marek[edit]This is more in regards to SashiRolls' comments here. The relevant policies are WP:ASPERSIONS and WP:BATTLEGROUND. There's no reason for them to show up here and based on some flimsy excuse use this as a forum to attack another editor whom they happen to dislike.Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:49, 15 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Neutrality[edit]I agree with MrX and Sagecandor. Particularly concerning re: Tlroche is his/her comment here: "I see no reason to seek approval from your rightwing cabal. ... I will continue to add valuable content as I see fit." Tlroche basically has expressed an open disdain for consensus. As to SashiRolls, I agree with Volunteer Marek and would merely note that this is part of a pattern of behavior. Neutralitytalk 19:12, 15 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Timothyjosephwood[edit]If you don't count the page and talk they're TBANNED from, this is Sashi's sixth most edited page on Wikipedia. They're off topic comments here have only resulted in more off topic comments (like this one). Support restricting AE comments on requests they are not a party to. Drama central is that way. TimothyJosephWood 15:22, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Result concerning Tlroche[edit]
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The Rambling Man
[edit]| Re-instating previous close, no further action is forthcoming from this forum at this time. Per Floquenbeam's previous closing statement: "Considering all the blocks, unblocks, AN threads, ANI threads, AE reports, and retirements in the last few days, it looks like everyone is finally exhausted from stabbing each other in the eye with forks. Well, that's not true, I think there are still a few unstabbed eyeballs and a few people with forks, but the community in general has probably had enough. Jauerback says "let it go", and that seems like excellent advice for a week ago, and pretty good advice now." |
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Request concerning The Rambling Man[edit]
See below
In no less than 24 hours from the closure of the previous AE filing, it appears that TRM has continued to engage in inappropriate behavior. He has made personal attacks towards myself, including: not to mention his utter abject recalcitrance in redacting his accusations of lying ... To err is human, to completely reject any responsibility for false accusations is rogue admin, Mike will just use IRC and find an Arbcom/Mike-sympathetic admin to do the dirty work behind the scenes, Get him to write an error-free DYK, that would be a miracle. It is Christmas after all., and equating my warning and block to lynching and character assassination. TRM's uncivil behavior has extended to DYK when another editor asked him a question and he responded in a belittling fashion: I'm gonna take a punt here: PREVENTING ERRORS FROM HITTING THE MAIN PAGE?. It was followed up with: Impressive that you found such an appropriate yet shit article. You must have shares. Usual "belittling" caveat applies, although in your case, I couldn't give one, two or three fucks! Just kidding, obv!!!!!!!!! and No-one gives a fuck about the main page any more Martin. You know that. Finally, TRM has made insults towards some of the arbitration committee candidates: Hilarious, thanks. That someone who doesn't really edit Wikipedia and didn't answer the questions posed didn't come last, sums it all up perfectly! and Spectacular result. No wonder we trust Arbcom to understand what we do day-to-day around here! I am asking that you take a look at TRM's behavior and action it as appropriate. Mike V • Talk 15:06, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning The Rambling Man[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by The Rambling Man[edit]Stellar waste of time, most diffs out of context or actually just statements of fact. Am on the road so can't respond for some time but hoping that we don't have another Mike V trigger finger block before I get a chance to respond. Mike V has still failed to respond to my request for him to redact the two accusations of lying, by the way. Perhaps we could ping the other people in those talk situations to see how "belittled" and/or insulted they felt! The Rambling Man (talk) 15:24, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Fram[edit]Appropriate action would be a block of Mike V. for baiting. Really, it seems as if everyone by now has said to you that the original warning yu gaev which started all this was wrong. Your defense has been (paraphrased, duh): "I am not wrong", "I had no time between handing out that warning and speedily giving a block two weeks later to the same user to attend to this", and "I am not wrong, and I can't hear you". His examples above include things like I'm gonna take a punt here: PREVENTING ERRORS FROM HITTING THE MAIN PAGE?. If he isn't allowed to say something like that any longer, then some people really have become way, WAY too thin skinned. But perhaps it is just an "admin" looking for an excuse to block the editor again who got him ridiculed at AN, ANI, AE, and a slew of user talk pages? Mike V., you are only making a fool of yourself. Please boomerang close this. Fram (talk) 15:16, 16 December 2016 (UTC) @Ritchie333: thanks, but I hope someone else will do the honour. I would be accused of being involved, being wikifriends with you (I have an archived ANI discussion from this year to prove them wrong though :-D ), and so on. Probably by the same people that claimed that MikeV wan't involved because they had no article conflict with TRM. Fram (talk) 15:31, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Ritchie333[edit]Agree with the above. Fram, if you wish to block Mike V for stirring up trouble and skirting around a recently placed community ban, you have my support. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:20, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by 331dot[edit]Agree with the above as well. It would be wonderful if we could move on from this war against TRM. I'd probably be frustrated too and say things I'd regret if I were him. I don't condone everything he has said, but it is concerning to me that criticism of an administrator's actions is considered a 'personal attack' by that person. 331dot (talk) 15:21, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Davey2010[edit]Agree with everyone above - Continuing this is waste of time and right now if anyone deserves blocking it's Mike!, I suggest this gets speedy closed and I would also suggest Mike moves on!. –Davey2010Talk 15:30, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Jauerback[edit]Let it go. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 16:03, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Ivanvector[edit]It would probably be best for everyone if everyone just steps away from this dispute for a bit. However, I would ask that someone please undo Mike V's indefinite full protection of his own talk page ([28]), that is inappropriate. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 16:33, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Sagecandor[edit]Probably best for all involved to have a cup of tea at this point. I'm reminded of the phrase flogging a dead horse. Sagecandor (talk) 16:50, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by EEng[edit]@The Wordsmith: when you say "blocking a Functionary is unprecedented", I think what you mean is that it would be unprecedented to block a functionary and leave him a functionary. This episode has left in tatters Mike V's fitness to perform even the public functions of an admin; that he be allowed behind-the-scenes functions such as CU, oversight, and supervising edit filters and Arbcom elections is now, IMO, beyond the pale. He not only lacks judgment, but refuses to accept that he's seriously mistaken when literally dozens of editors (including admins) tell him so directly. How can we trust him with hidden roles that support the very fabric of the community? Even if he avoids desysopping (and I hope that will be given serious consideration given his latest foray into wasting everyone's time) I submit he should be immediately stripped of all roles other than admin. I think it's interesting that Mike V's response to being rebuked as an admin is to simply take his ball and go home, instead of returning to improving the encyclopedia in other ways – except of course he has no experience doing that. That confirms my longstanding impression that he sees his role here not as to help in building an encyclopedia, but rather as playing enforcer. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. EEng 18:59, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Tarage[edit]Remove MikeV's bit. This temper tantrum is unbecoming of an administrator and frankly, continuing to let him behave this way only further proves the massive issues with the current administrative staff. --Tarage (talk) 19:02, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by uninvolved Softlavender[edit]As far as I can tell, I agree with some folks above who say that everyone simply needs to step away at this point. Apparently neither party has acted optimally. The moon is full and we're all going off the rails. Let's calm down for a bit. TRM is understandably frustrated that he has been desysopped and is unable to use his tools to fix the main page -- the accuracy of which he cares about passionately, more than anyone else, and it is a very good thing that he does care passionately about it. The main page would probably be a mess without him. His frustration has come out in verbiage -- the style of which isn't going to change completely overnight, nor should we expect it to, given that he can't fix the things he could so easily fix before. (All of that said, maybe TRM could use a short break from the mainpage, just to clear his mind. Just thinking aloud here.) Mike V. has apparently been acting autocratically and vengefully and without consequences. I think he needs to back way off or an RFAR may be the next stop. To avoid all of these consequences, can we please all just drop it and cut everyone a little slack for the time being? Softlavender (talk) 19:14, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My Ken[edit]If the call to block Mike V is heeded here, it seems extremely likely that Mike V's response would be to go to ArbCom. Since desysopping appears to be the actual desired result of many commenting here, then the case would have to go to ArbCom, since they're the only ones that can do that. Therefore, I suggest that this case be closed (for whatever reason) and someone (TRM, Fram, Ritchie, whoever) file a desysop case with ArbCom, since that's the only place where it can be properly ajudicated. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:46, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning The Rambling Man[edit]
So... numerous people call for sanctions against an administrator, including other administrators, and the result is "let's just stop talking about this"? Are you kidding me? Are you forgetting who brought this here in the first place? --Tarage (talk) 22:12, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
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Abbatai
[edit]| No sanctions, but a logged warning to both: "Abbatai and Etienne Dolet are both admonished and warned against battleground behaviour and failure to edit neutrally. Future examples of these behaviours are likely to result in a topic ban." EdJohnston (talk) 15:14, 19 December 2016 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Abbatai[edit]
This is one of the shortest reports I've filed simply because the POV is self-evident and the user's history is so disruptive that it just had to be reported. Abbatai removes the word 'Nazi' in this edit when it comes to Azeris, but adds it in the lead of an Armenian article a few minutes later. A bit of a history lesson here: the Armenische Legion and the Aserbaidschanische Legion were both foreign units of the Wehrmacht. Armenians (like Dro) and Azeris all fought alongside the German Army during those days. However, according to Abbatai, the Azeris should not be designated Nazis, but the Armenians should. It can't get any clearer POV pushing than that. Given this user's disruptive POV pushing history, there should be serious consideration as to whether he should be topic-banned once more.
Discussion concerning Abbatai[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Abbatai[edit]In my both edits mentioned above the intention was to give clearer and more precise additional information about certain issues here It is more appropriate to put "Azeri SS Volunteer Formations" instead of a broad description like "Nazi Azeri troops". And this edit as well clearly done to give sourced information to avoid any confusion since Drastamat Kanayan led another Armenian Legion during WW1.--Abbatai 12:53, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by My very best wishes[edit]diff #1. Including info about the legion of the Wehrmacht seems be appropriate. However, trying to "over-explain" it, i.e. saying "Wehrmacht, the armed forces of the Nazi Germany" was excessive and should be fixed. But this looks to me as a minor content dispute. diff #2. Telling "SS Volunteer Formations" means basically the same as "Nazi troops", but more precise. Therefore, I think that was actually an improvement by Abbatai. I do not see any reason for sanctions based on these two diffs. My very best wishes (talk) 04:46, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Sagecandor[edit]The edits [34] and [35] -- when contrasted with each other as noted by the original poster -- is definitely problematic. The topic ban by Coffee was only back in May 2016. Then a block [36], then an extension of the topic ban [37]. Last topic ban was 6 months, suggest one year. Sagecandor (talk) 11:14, 11 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Tiptoethrutheminefield[edit]When they taken together (as they should be, given the subject similarity and that there was only a short time period between each edit) the editing aim looks dubious. The first chronologically [38] was, by itself, innocuous, indeed reasonable - it simply removed a pipe and revealed the name of the actual article. But the second [39] does not remove the pipe, it retains it and then overeggs it. There are other recent diffs suggesting pov editing - here is a removal of content mentioning the existence of Armenians living in the Igdir valley before its annexation by Turkey, plus content mentioning that Kurds are the current majority population: [40]. The Kurdish majority vs Azeri majority claims seems to be an ongoing edit war. Abbatai has jumped in to continue it - which is strange, given that Abbatai in the talk page appears to be agreeing that the source being advocated for the Azeri majority claim is not rs. The deleted Armenia-related content has been done under the guise of agreeing with those who are disputing the Kurdish majority claim. The last talk page discussion regarding the region's former Armenian population was back in 2007 - if there is an issue with what exactly the Russian population statistics are referring to (the city or the region) and where in the article it should be mentioned then that should be addressed in the talk page and not be used as an excuse to blank mention of Igdir's Armenian past. Here is another troubling edit [41] - the deletion of Kemalist-related material from 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt. The edit summary justification "there is not even one single source claiming Kemalists were behind coup attempt" misrepresents even the article's own content, which from its start has had sourced content explaining that the coup group's name, Peace at Home Council, was derived from Kemal Atatürk's saying 'Peace at Home, Peace in the World', and that choice of name together with their statement either indicated actual Kemalist involvement or a misdirection attempt to imply Kemalist involvement. The edit mentioned by ED that initiated Abbatai's recent block for topic ban violation also involved pov editing - again it was the deletion of a mention of Armenians - [42]. Adding Urartu was a valid addition to have made, but not as an excuse to delete the equally valid mention of Armenians. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:02, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Athenean[edit]While the number of diffs here is small, the issue is one quality rather than quantity. The Igdir diff [43] is particularly problematic. He removes perfectly well-sourced material simply because he doesn't like it (Abbatai is somewhat obsessed with minorities in Turkey), with a misleading edit summary. In my book it doesn't get any worse than that (except edit-warring over it). Then he files a frivolous, retaliatory AE report against EtienneDolet, clear evidence of WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior. Most importantly, Abbatai has already been topic banned, for exactly this kind of behavior. This editor is clearly WP:NOTHERE. He was topic banned, then given another chance, and now he is engaging in exactly the same behavior that got him topic banned in the first place. Enough. Athenean (talk) 04:34, 14 December 2016 (UTC) Result concerning Abbatai[edit]
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EtienneDolet
[edit]| No sanctions but a logged warning to both: "Abbatai and Etienne Dolet are both admonished and warned against battleground behaviour and failure to edit neutrally. Future examples of these behaviours are likely to result in a topic ban." EdJohnston (talk) 15:21, 19 December 2016 (UTC) |
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Request concerning EtienneDolet[edit]
S/he has been varned several times by different editors.
The user is aware of the discretionary sanctions as S/he is currently reports any user S/he disagree.
EtienneDolet has long history of deliberately POV-pushing and anti-Azeri sentiment. Lastly in the article Collaboration with the Axis Powers during World War II changed the wording "Azeri SS Volunteer Formations" to a very vague and problematic one "Nazi Azeri troops". On the other hand s/he removes sourced information from one of the Armenian collaborators with Nazi Germany about his leading of the Armenian Legion a military unit of Nazi Germany. What's more on December 1 2016 EtienneDolet added misleading information to Iğdır Province about the demoraphy of the article which is completely irrelevant to province. EtienneDolet included the Russian Empire Census in 1897 Iğdır to the article. However, Iğdır became province in 1992 and its boundaries changed quite a lot compared to the times it was under Russian rule. Therefore, Iğdır Province has nothing to do with Russian Population Census on Iğdır City from 1897. The edit reverted by a user and another user warned EtienneDolet about the province in his/her talk but s/he hasn't engaged any collaboration and reverted the page once again. Although three editors disagree with him/her EtienneDolet ignores incorrectness of the edit just to insert Armenian Population wherever s/he can. The editor interestingly adds Armenian name to the Turkish city of Erzurum however removes Turkish language etymology from Armenian capital Yerevan on the same day. Similarly removes the sourced information about contest of origin from the article Lavash.
References
Providing all evidences above and regarding the disruptive behaviour of EtienneDolet a topic ban on Armenia related topics would be helpful to deal with any further disruption. And of course for the user to reconsider his/her structural WP violating editorial pattern. Thanks--Abbatai 22:42, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning EtienneDolet[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by EtienneDolet[edit]@Dennis Brown: my goodness Dennis, what white-washing are you talking about? Can you please be more specific and refrain from drawing to conclusions so early? I'm sure you realize your commentary as an admin has influence in what users or admins think about this case. So I'd suggest you look into it more, then comment. So are you talking about my revert at Yerevan? If so, let me break it to you: it wasn't "white-washing". In fact, I reverted POV-pushing WP:SYNTH material. The source, a Turkish etymological dictionary published by the Turkish Language Association, provides absolutely no linkage whatsoever to show that the word Yerevan comes from Revan. To be more clear: there's NOTHING about Yerevan in the source. Beshogur went so far as to put an etymological entry of the word Revan in the article Yerevan under his own wild presumption that the word Yerevan probably comes from the Persian/Turkic word Revan because...it sounds similar? Hell, I don't know. But what I do know is that what Beshogur did was a textbook SYNTH and POV-pushing edit to somehow demonstrate that Yerevan, the capital of Armenia, is a Turkic/Persian city. But to say that I'm the one white-washing things here is very very misleading. My edits at Erzurum are also in line with how the article was since at least 2008 ([76]). I don't understand why I'm being scrutinized when Beshogur removed the Armenian name of Erzurum at least 6 freaking times in that article in the past month or so! And it's not as if he's removing the Creole name of the city, he's removing its Armenian transliteration. A language associated with a people who lived in that town long before the Turks did and whose tragic end to their existence in that city in 1915 shouldn't merit its removal under WP:NCGN standards. The stuff at Iğdır Province can be easily dealt with at the talk page. I have yet to have heard Abbatai raise these concerns regarding Province/City demographic statistics. Not even his sole talk page comment raises that issue. The first time he raises that issue is at this very moment at this very thread. If he feels that adding stuff about the Armenian population in Iğdır is problematic, let him express his concerns at the talk page first, rather than use that as ammunition to have his "opponents" banned when the time is right. In fact, Abbatai's revert deserves much more scrutiny. He removes reliably sourced information about the Kurds of that town, effectively reducing the Kurds, who represent the majority of the population in that province, to mere non-existence. And the source he uses is nothing but electoral results from the last Turkish election. And he knows that. But the almost laughable diffs are the ones of Drastamat Kanayan and Collaboration with the Axis Powers during World War II. Here, Abbatai is actually implying that his own edits are disruptive. After all, as I laid out in my report against him just above, it was Abbatai who removed the word 'Nazi' in this edit when it comes to Azeris, but adds it in the lead of an Armenian article a few minutes later. And those two edits, when juxtaposed, have been considered disruptive in his own report by at least 3 admins. So the baffling part about Abbatai's accusation here is that my edits are disruptive when, put under his own logic, is nothing but the opposite of his. I remove the word Nazi for Dro and add it back to the Azeri which should make it POV, but when he places Nazi for Dro and removes it for Azeris, it's not. That's hypocrisy at its finest and merits no praise at all. This is a retaliatory report and merits a boomerang. Abbatai's presentation of my reverts at Kanayan and WWII collaboration proves, in a rather obvious sense, that he actually believes that such an editing pattern is disruptive, but only when it's flipped and against his POV. Abbatai has removed information about Armenians and Kurds whose population was (in the case of the Armenians) and still is (in the case of the Kurds) a majority. And my goodness, this is straight off of a fresh six month topic ban. I must say, Abbatai's pretty bold. A bit too bold. Étienne Dolet (talk) 19:19, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by My very best wishes[edit]So, Abbatai made this edit. That was arguably an improvement to a more precise title, but something really really minor. In response, ED reverted [77]. That was arguably not an improvement, but emphasizing something everyone already knows (SS were Nazi, but wait a minute, they also happened to be Azeri!). This is not good, but hardly a serious reason for sanctions. What is actually problematic? The fact that ED brought his content opponent (Abbatai) to AE for making this very innocent edit (diff #2 in his request just above), obviously to gain an upper hand in a content dispute. And of course Abbatai brought precisely the same request about ED. The real problem is WP:BATTLE, and it was started by ED by bringing this to AE. My very best wishes (talk) 20:45, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Athenean[edit]Ok, first of all, this is clearly a retaliatory request by Abbatai, since EtienneDolet reported him earlier (see above). This in itself is evidence of battleground behavior and merits a WP:BOOMERANG. Second, I very strongly suspect Abbatai is not the author of this report. Abbatai's English is best described as atrocious ("and accuse me every means possible" "I believe article is heavily biased from name to not exclusion of 1914 revolt." [79]). He rarely can string more than 5-6 words in a sentence. Yet here we have an report in flawless English, with long, elaborate sentences. Clearly Abbatai is not capable of this level of English. There is foul play here. But most importantly, to suggest any sort of equivalency between ED and Abbatai, as Peacemaker is doing, is incredibly ill-informed. ED is an incredibly valuable contributor, who has created an immense amount of content (262 articles created, and counting), with a spotless record. By contrast Abbatai is nothing more than an obsessive Turkish nationalist-fascist SPA who contributes nothing but POV-pushing and disruption: From attempting to whitewash Kemalist involvement in the 2016 coup attempt [80] [81] (notice how he lies about "moving" the content - he didn't "move" it, he deleted it), and Ergenekon affair [82], to the typical Turkish xenophobic removal of any mention of minorities [83] (again notice the misleading edit summary), to petty trolling of Armenian users [84] [85] (note the bad English in the edit summary), it's all very familiar. He has a long block log [86] and has already been topic banned from this area, for exactly this type of battleground behavior. Abbatai contributes nothing to the topic area, and is a textbook example of a minority-baiting, Turkish nationalist POV-pusher with a severe case of WP:BATTLE mentality who is clealy WP:NOTHERE. I am amazed he isn't topic banned yet. This frivolous retaliatory report should be the final straw. Athenean (talk) 04:23, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Tiptoethrutheminefield[edit]This is just a tit-for-tat response by Abbatai for the case raised against him. The barrel scrapings of diffs alleging misdeeds reveal nothing of the sort. For example, "adding Armenian population data from 1897 Russian census to a province has history back only to 1992" - then why is Abbatai happy to allow population statistics from the 1920s, 1930s, 1950s, etc., to remain in the article? There is nothing wrong in removing [95] an unjustified pov tag (this [96] is NOT a proper tag justification); this [97] is sourced content and was added as a result of talk page discussions, this [98] restored alternative names that had been deleted without justification and deleted a reference that was actually not a reference for the tagged for sources content; this [99] removes an unsourced category assertion. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:11, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Volunteer Marek[edit]Can someone point me to ONE - just one, single, uno, 1 - drama board thread where EtienneDolet, Athenean and Tiptoethroughtheminefield don't all show up simultaneously in tandem and proceed to attack whoever is their target d'jour? Really, just one, because I cannot recall a single case even though I've been subject to their attention multiple times. And they are very very frequent visitors to WP:AE. And of course they do the same on articles. Which is why I showed up here as I was just thinking about filing yet another AE request against ED for BLP violations - saying a BLP subject is "loosing it" because they are "too old" [102] - but then I saw this was already up.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:35, 16 December 2016 (UTC) So I guess the answer is "no, I can't come up with even one drama board discussion where the three of us didn't all jump in simultaneously".Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:14, 16 December 2016 (UTC) It's the "same insinuation" (I didn't think I was insinuating anything - I said plainly, the three of you collude in these discussions and tag team on articles) because what the three of you are doing is so transparent that a two year old could see it. So the fact that more than one person noticed (and frankly I have no idea who Abatai is) is not really some big mystery or "coincidence". Like I said, there isn't a single drama board discussion where the three of you don't show up together to have each other's backs and attacks each other's opponents. Any article where a content dispute develops, it's the same thing.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:25, 16 December 2016 (UTC) Result concerning EtienneDolet[edit]
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SashiRolls
[edit]| While a consensus is not required to act, I think there is a consensus for strong action here. Per the evidence, I am blocking SashiRolls for 6 months as a conventional block (non-AE) for Wikihounding and disruptive editing. His behavior has spanned more than AE areas and is in fact worse outside of AE areas. This block may be appealed at WP:AN or WP:AE, since it was issued at WP:AE. If there is further issue on the talk page or during the duration of the block, other sanctions will take place, including removing talk page access or increasing the block to an indefinite period of time, as determined by any admin. Disruption after the block has expired will likely result in a block for an indefinite period of time. In essence, this is a last chance for SashiRolls to be a member of the community, once the block has expired. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 15:42, 20 December 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning SashiRolls[edit]
Discussion concerning SashiRolls[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SashiRolls[edit]This is nonsense. Am leaving for Christmas thoroughly disappointed. Will not return before the 27th. I still have never wasted admins time taking anyone to AE. Could you please limit yourself to 500 words and 20 diffs, for my return? Thanks. SashiRolls (talk) 01:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC) A few hours less sleep never hurt anyone, right?.... z.z.z.z.
Old
I would request that Sagecandor go home and spend the holidays with loved ones and stop bringing people to AE. I do not even necessarily want Santa to bring him a boomerang. Once again, I have never brought anyone to AE, because I seek to edit harmoniously, following the rules That can even be reliably sourced to the News on Wikipeida (WMF blog) :) (I was interviewed because of my (very modest) work on DAPL / DAPL protests. (I certainly do not deserve much credit at all for those articles though; I was just the only one who answered the journalist's questions, I guess.) I suppose that I am making a mistake not pinging anyone or mentioning anyone to get them to run over and seek vengeance for a previous block as Snoogansnoogans has done below. But I'm going to just enjoy my holidays with my family, OK? yep, that's another article I'm glad to have influenced. SashiRolls (talk) 03:43, 19 December 2016 (UTC) Notes:
Request I would specifically like to request a formal finding by any closing administrator concerning the appropriateness of Sagecandor suggesting that I am a Russian propaganda user" here. Is this unfounded personal attack in keeping with Wikipedian best practices? (Please note that this is the origin of this case.) Fact: I have never been paid by anyone to edit Wikipedia. SashiRolls (talk) 05:27, 20 December 2016 (UTC) Reply to Dennis Brown: It seems to me that you should give this case as long as the average case on AE for comment. What's your rush in this case? I have asked that a respected admin who to the best of my knowledge has had no contact with Sagecandor (and very limited interaction with me) look at the evidence, and have also asked that a Signpost editor (again no interaction with Sagecandor to my knowledge, and very little direct interaction with me, other than thanking me once for a copyedit) take a look. Until one of them has had time to look in and decide if they want to comment, I would submit that rushing this through during the holiday season when most cases are left open at least a week (unless found to be groundless) could quite justifiably be seen as arbitrary and capricious. SashiRolls (talk) 11:49, 20 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Snooganssnoogans[edit]This is part of SashiRolls' modus operandi. The user turns every page he/she edits on into a battleground (usually because SashiRolls adds ridiculous, charged content from poor sources, reverts quality content from reliable sources, and then can't discuss things in a reasonable manner), and proceeds to harass the users that he/she disagrees with. As can be seen from my talk page, SashiRolls was obsessed with me from this summer to mid-November, because the user disagreed with my edits on the Jill Stein page (a page that the user was later banned from). The obsession turned into harassment in late October, with the user following me around, reverting my edits for ridiculous reasons on pages of no previous interest to SashiRolls[133], mentioning me in 17 different edits over a three-week span, repeatedly editing my talk page with nonsense.[134] SashiRolls was then told by some admin in no unclear terms to stop following me around and harassing me. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 01:30, 19 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by Timothyjosephwood[edit]Can we spend a few days not on AE? Is there really a current disruption that needs to be addressed? TimothyJosephWood 03:21, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
@Dennis Brown: @Laser brain: I would love for there to be at least some indication with the user why this kind of behavior is problematic. I'm just not sure my imagination can see a way that's going to easily come about, especially if they've simply decided to take a wikibreak, have a pint, and wait for it all to blow over. They have, despite themselves, made some positive contributions, especially in the area of spotting copyright violations in articles, but the over-the-top off-article behavior is still probably a net negative, at least in the absence of any sense of understanding why. TimothyJosephWood 23:16, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Tryptofish[edit]This dispute is indeed ripe for AE, and maybe well-past its spoilage date. I've been in the previous AEs for SashiRolls, and Snooganssnoogans is correct that this is the typical pattern. I agree strongly with what Dennis Brown says below, having actually been in such editing situations. We are at the end of the WP:ROPE. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:16, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Comment by My very best wishes[edit]I agree with Tryptofish and T.Canens. SashiRolls is a net negative for the project, and he does everything on purpose. I do not know if he is really a paid contributor, but it does not matter. My very best wishes (talk) 14:32, 20 December 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning SashiRolls[edit]
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