Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive295
Nableezy
[edit]| The report is overstated. What seems to have taken place is fairly normal, albeit sometimes heated, editing process. The threats by Nableezy aren't really threats, although they are problematic. The AFD was handled properly. While behavior (by all) might be less than ideal, some heat is expected in contentious areas, and is tolerated by the community. While I don't see actual WP:hounding by Free1Soul going on yet, the events thus far could be considered as part of a pattern if they continued with this intensity. I don't see a need for any AE sanctions at this point. What is needed is more talk page discussion, a little less editing, and actual consensus building rather than bickering. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:02, 18 October 2021 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Nableezy[edit]
I noticed Nableezy yesterday when I was going over AFDs related to Israel. I noticed they nominated Yoav Sarig in a disruptive manner (obvious notability) at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yoav Sarig. This nomination isn't normal disruption because I discovered from searching that Nableezy has a COI, a long feud, with the subject. Google: Nableezy Yoav Sarig, and you will see the COI yourself. Because of the disruption at Sarig, I looked at Nableezy's contributions and saw that he was engaging in mass-changes to long standing, stable, maps in several articles in or near the Golan. Nableezy was continuing these changes even after he was challenged by a user (17:07) at Caesarea Philippi and a discussion was started (17:10) making similar changes to more articles to 8 additional articles ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]) This continuation is a Wikipedia:Fait accompli problem. In one case in these mass changes Nableezy introduced a hoax, as Hippos was not controlled by Syria before 1967, it was in Israeli territory (the Syrian army briefly controlled it after their invasion in 1948, but they were pushed back on the night between 17-18 July 1948). I then reverted Nableezy's mass change to 17 articles. Nableezy immediately threatened me and instead of taking the threat back said: "Is it a threat? No, it is a promise". I later discovered Nableezy posted nearly identical threats on other users pages:
Nableezy then reverted all of my reverts of their new map. I asked Nableezy to self-revert their 17 changes because I felt they broke 1RR. After some discussion Nableezy said they would self revert but then changed course saying they Have not found a single article where a map was added within the last year, making all of those edits. If any admin says those are reverts I will gladly self-revert. This statement is false, while many of these maps are very long standing, a decade even, there are at least two articles in which the content was added within the last year:
From their talk page, Nableezy recently broke 1RR also on Israel. On 14:59, 12 October 2021 they restored text similar to this reverted edit to a different location. They then reverted again on 17:53, 12 October 2021
Discussion concerning Nableezy[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Nableezy[edit]There should be a WP:BOOMERANG here. The above user followed me to an AFD and then to some 18 other pages to edit in opposition to me. See the timeline here. I was not threatening anybody, I simply reminded them of the golden rule, and it takes a level of self-confidence that astounds me to complain about a "threat" to hound after having already hounding me. Please note that the user edited the AFD prior to it being listed in the Israel related discussions (user edit 15:29, 15 October 2021, added to Israel list 15:56). The claim that the user was going through Israel-related deletions is as bogus as the rest of the report. He or she got there through hounding my contributions. And then continued to hound me across a range of other articles. ProcrastinatingReader, I would characterize your editing at Sheikh Jarrah dispute in much the same manner, though since we still have rules on making accusations without evidence Ill just invite you to my talk page if youd like to discuss that further. If somebody would like me to answer some diffs of mine from there, sure. As far as the report here, and the laughable claim of a "hoax", it seems somewhat dishonest not to note this edit less than an hour later. I replaced a non-NPOV map with a NPOV map. When checking through them later I saw that neither map fit. And I myself corrected it. And as I told the user earlier, if any admin says that my initial edits changing the maps were reverts and not edits I will gladly self-revert. But a user tendentiously hounding me across a range of articles with edit summaries that quite literally were simply WP:JDLI (prev better was all the discussion provided for the reverts) was not something I intended to give much attention to. As far as the claim that I have some COI with Yoav Sarig, having written that the author of the article has a COI some 10 years ago is not a "grudge" or a COI, and that claim is as specious as the rest of the report and many of the comments below. And for the record, I have never once made any serious claim about Yoav Sarig anywhere. Saying that the person who wrote an article about you has a COI is not an attack on you. It may be a serious claim against the editor who created the article, but certainly not against the subject. As far as shows contempt to BRD, I am unaware of any requirement to demonstrate obeisance to WP:BRD. Which is not a requirement on Wikipedia or this topic area. And if people would just click the links they seem so confident in posting, they will see that it is indeed not a requirement on Wikipedia. As far as my language in that discussion, I don't think a general discussion about editing philosophies, even if touching on editing in the topic area, is really within the topic area, and we've generally been accepting of users speaking frankly with each other on their own user talk pages. I dont believe I broke the 1RR at Israel. Selfstudier's edit was removed due to it not belonging in the lead. I added material to the body. And when that was reverted with a claim that ONUS had not been met for the lead I reverted. Once. nableezy - 00:16, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
To be clear, I don't think the 17 reverts are hounding, I think the going to the AFD and then the Talk:Caesarea Philippi, and then starting that series was hounding. You can oppose all my edits if you see one in a pattern, thats fair. But just getting there to begin with, in this instance, was hounding. nableezy - 04:37, 17 October 2021 (UTC) ProcrastinatingReader, I agree that people can have legitimate reasons for opposing my edits. I dont think that users that maintain a series of no consensus decisions requires one to drop the stick in correcting NPOV issues (note that position was not adopted in the RFC, the opposite in fact), or editors maintaining that what several sources flat out say is biased as "neutral" is one of them (such as your repeated assertions in the face of RS against it). There are indeed many valid reasons to oppose my edits. Ones such as "but there haven't been any evictions" in an article that covers several past evictions is however not one of them. But the sources are wrong (which Id charecterize your argument in the section on Palestinian v Jewish claims, including by distorting my argument) and raising hypotheticals that the sources say dont exist to try to negate their description of the laws, or making their vote conditional on ultimatums. Im bumping up on the word limit here, but if I need to respond to any diffs there in detail somebody lmk. nableezy - 10:07, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by BilledMammal[edit]I was going to post a slightly different version of this on one of your user pages, having noticed the dispute after the discussion on El C's page, but it appears I was too slow. First, in regards to Free1Soul: I would agree with Nableezy that there may be an issue of WP:HOUNDING here. Free1Soul justifies their activity by explaining that it was in response to what they saw as a disruptive filing, but I would consider searching through a users contribution log searching for general issues to be an overreaction in such a case, particularly where the two editors have interacted in the past and even more so when the two editors have a general difference of opinion in regards to a contentious area; I can see no good coming from such a search. My original suggestion was going to be that that Free1Soul avoids looking at Nableezy's contribution page, but given we are here, and how quick they were to declare an apparently good faith edit to be a "hoax", perhaps a one way interaction block would be in order, at least for a short time? Second, in regards to Nableezy. The threat to hound Free1Soul, despite the extenuating circumstances, is in my opinion problematic; there are ways to deal with problematic behaviour, and resorting to problematic behaviour is not one of them. I would suggest to Nableezy that they withdraw that comment, and commit to using the proper channels to resolve these issues. I would also note that I would agree with Free1Soul that 1RR may have been breached here; Nableezy's initial edits to change the map removed the map that was previously there, making it, in my opinion, a reversion - though some of these initial reverts are 1RR exempt as the map was added by editors not permitted to edit the area under 30/500. With all that said, I can see how the question of whether they are reverts or not would be a little ambiguous in this case, so perhaps the appropriate remedy would be to self-revert now? Apologies to all if I have done this incorrectly; I am unsure of the proper protocol here. BilledMammal (talk) 19:15, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Firefangledfeathers[edit]Nableezy's intital edits, changing the maps, definitely do not count as reverts. I get the need for extra caution in this topic area, but considering any bold change to be a revert would inhibit productive editing. 19:17, 16 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Eggishorn[edit]This appears to be a vexatious filing. The AfD nomination was very defensible in that the state of the article at the time of the nomination was one in which the sourcing was almost entirely to primary sources or passing mentions and the importance of the one academic prize mentioned was not clear. When the original author appeared to clarify the status, Nableezy withdrew their nomination and closed the AfD themselves, which can hardly be evidence of long-term enmity. The second diff also shows entirely reasonable behavior by Nableezy, in that the challenge to their edit was an appeal to personal expertise instead of actual sourcing. The series of edit edits next mentioned are not evidence of anything other than the OP hunting down edits to revert. There are no edit summaries that give any reason why the edits are incorrect. Calling the addition to a map of a pushpin a "Hoax" is truly mind-boggling. Even the "threat" is little more than what I'd expect many frustrated users to post. It is clear from the above that this is a poor attempt by an inexperienced editor with a particular POV to weaponize AE against a perceived opponent. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:34, 16 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by 11Fox11[edit]The report above is badly formatted, however it raises three serious problems:
This Nableezy post from two days ago shows contempt to BRD and is attacking another editor ("somebody who continues to make shit up"). In my opinion Nableezy engaging in similar threats against three separate users he disagrees with in the last couple of months is the most serious aspect here. 11Fox11 (talk) 20:01, 16 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by ProcrastinatingReader[edit]Lacking the time to read this complaint in detail, several of the diffs do show nableezy increasing tension in the topic area, e.g. [14]. Anecdotally I recall nableezy's approch at Talk:Sheikh Jarrah controversy, which I'd categorise as rather disruptive (and some other editors felt the same). Earlier this year, the editor received a logged warning to The problems in this topic area aren't limited to nableezy, but their current approach to dispute resolution is imho a contributing factor to the toxicity in it. I think ArbCom should revisit this topic area and some of its most active participants (on both ideological sides) in a full case. But failing that, at some point resolving these AE reports is going to require action rather than warnings. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 20:03, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Aquillion[edit]Unless the situation is very obvious, the initial place to raise COI isssues is WP:COIN, not WP:AE; and I definitely don't think that a single forum post seven years ago would qualify as sufficient to rush straight to AE (nor is it likely to be enough to convince WP:COIN, but that's at least the place to start.) I'm also skeptical about labeling the AFD nomination as disruptive - I think it was obviously a mistake, but there's a huge gap between a nomination being a bad call and being disruptive enough to require sanctions; sanctioning people simply for being wrong risks having a chilling effect that would discourage people from raising potentially-controversial issues that do need to be considered. Maybe if it was part of a pattern of obviously-unjustified nominations, but just one is silly. The same goes for some of the other issues - making a single mistake regarding an area with an extremely complicated history is obviously not sanctionable. Likewise, 1RR issues are better handled at WP:3RRN since they are generally straightforward; if you think it's part of a bigger pattern, but there's a debate over whether it's actually a 1RR violation, it saves time for everyone if you take it to 3RRN first, settle that, then come to AE with that conclusion in hand. That said, I don't think it's reasonable to call what they did an 1RR violation (I have pointed out before that we need to settle the "any edit to existing material could be interpreted as a revert of someone or something" problem; with the 3RR it is not a big deal, but it is a serious problem on articles with 1RR restrictions.) That said just because they were allowed to do that doesn't mean they should have; revert-warring across 17 articles is not ideal, and ideally mass-edits should be discussed in advance if they're likely to be controversial. But it's not a "rush straight to AE" issue, either, and while you were likewise allowed to mass-revert a mass-edit across multiple articles for WP:BRD / WP:FAIT reasons, it would still have been better to discuss and settle it first to avoid situations like this. Though I should point out (since nableezy has brought it up) that while I don't think they should have rushed to do it, I do not think free1Soul can reasonably be accused of WP:HOUNDing. As that policy says, Statement by GizzyCatBella[edit]
Singling out of one editor and follow them to 17 articles to revert their contribution is a key component of WP:HOUNDING. Are you aware of that Free1Soul?
Hoax is a planned introduction of something made up to trick others into believing is true. How do you know that was Nablezny's intention Free1Soul? I could go on with more problematic features written by the filer but don't have time for it right now. Nevertheless, I'll be surprised if this report goes anywhere since it seems to be an attempt to weaponize AE. However WP:BOOMERANG on the filer would not surprise me at all. - GizzyCatBella🍁 04:02, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Geshem Bracha[edit]@Euryalus and Bishonen:, after I reverted Nableezy on Chorazin they place this warning/threat on my talk page. They immediately, 1 minute later, demonstrated that they would carry out their threat by reverting me at Capernaum which they never edited before. This religious/archaeological site is located within Israel since its founding. Their statement on my page was not just words, it was followed by immediate action on their part on an article they never touched, it is impossible to see how they reached Capernaum without following me.--Geshem Bracha (talk) 05:31, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier[edit]Arriving late when all has been said. Still, I will say it's poor form that a filing at this board is seen as an opportunity to rake up anything at all from time past that could conceivably be cast as misfeasance, Sheikh Jarrah for instance, if there was a case to answer, doubtful at best, why bring it here and now and not at the time? Selfstudier (talk) 11:11, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000[edit]If the OP has anything to say about the location of Hippos, surely the article talk page would be the place to say it. Actually the place is located in the Israel-Syria DMZ exactly as the article says. The Capernaum issue is of whether an ancient village should be called in Israel if it ceased to exist long before Israel was founded. Nableezy thinks it would be anachronistic, which is not the only position that could be taken but it is reasonable to take it. Nableezy's flexibility is demonstrated by his recent compromise "in what is now the territory of modern Israel" in a parallel situation a few days ago [23]. Portraying this as a sanctionable offence is risible. Zerotalk 11:45, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Comment by GoodDay[edit]FWIW, I repaired the 'messed up' birth/death dates intro to the said-article that passed its AFD. GoodDay (talk) 19:33, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Result concerning Nableezy[edit]
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Spartan7W
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Spartan7W[edit]
Spartan7W has emerged from relative inactivity to make an edit to the article of a Biden administration official. The edit in question also happens to violate MOS:DEADNAME (and past consensus at the page on the same). I've left them a gender discretionary sanctions notice as well, so they are aware going forward. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Spartan7W[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Spartan7W[edit]
Given the fact that the software literally prevents me from pressing the edit button on the Donald Trump article, which is the one where your ridiculous ban in question came from, it would be a reasonable expectation of mine to assume that the ban would prevent editing of other politics articles under the same definition. Spartan7W § 14:16, 20 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Newimpartial[edit]The article already contained Statement by Sideswipe9th[edit]Given that in the diff in question, Spartan7W deadnamed a trans woman, is this not also a violation of WP:ARBGSDS? If the resolution is not for a permanent ban, would a TBAN for Gender and Sexuality also be warranted? Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:43, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Spartan7W[edit]
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Hodgdon's secret garden
[edit]| Hodgdon's secret garden is indefinitely topic-banned from the AP2 topic area, broadly construed. clpo13(talk) 17:08, 22 October 2021 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Hodgdon's secret garden[edit]
Unnecessarily personalizing debates (including personal attacks) at Talk:Woke:
N/A
Firefangledfeathers politely asked HSG on their user talk page to stop accusing people of enforcing some Orwellian "editing regime", but HSG has been unable to let it go. They have kept casting aspersions, accusing others of hidden biases (somehow simultaneously in favor of and against "progressive"/"woke" ideas), ad hoc (read: unprincipled) reasoning, and an "ideological litmus test" when the discussion doesn't go their way. Since HSG "disinvited" me from editing their user talk page, I don't see another option for addressing this kind of disruption but to file an AE request. (See earlier discussion here.) I'm leaving aside for now HSG's apparent inability to write clearly or concisely in discussions (seen above), and their habit of filling talk pages with many quotations from copyrighted sources in lieu of proposals for improvement (example diff).
Discussion concerning Hodgdon's secret garden[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Hodgdon's secret garden[edit]One quick correction to the filing, however: Something I wrote on the article's Talkpage today I believe is mischaracterized. I actually try very hard to consider things with nuance and I certainly didn't intend for my words -- where I said opposing arguments seemed ad hoc to me -- to imply that I believed them to be lacking, bl*ck-and-wh*te, in principles [sic]; rather, what I meant to convey was that something proposed's gets turned down for complaint X yet after that's successfully addressed, previously-unmentioned complaint Y appears. Something of this nature, while improvisational, doesn't imply for me lack of principles so much as admirably searching for an applicable editorial principle bit by bit rather than having a fully-formed one at the ready.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 02:49, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Firefangledfeathers re HSG[edit]I'll be able to elaborate more another day, but I want to say now that I corroborate the main points of Sangdeboeuf's report. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 02:02, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by PaleoNeonate[edit]Although not a new editor, I was unfamiliar with them (as far as I know the editor has edited in the past with a previous long-abandoned account and some IP addresses and I don't think they were banned, the current account is ~11 years old). I looked at two recent talk pages, Talk:Woke and its latest archive, Talk:Woke/Archive 5. I am somewhat surprised for this apparently experienced editor to regularly ascribe policies to the opinions of particular editors. NorthBySouthBaranof and Sangdeboeuf have to explain the basis of the policy about independent reliable sources and original research to aspersions like:
I note that the effort on Woke has been going on for months, it seems (and all other talk archives have requests). I think that there's also some good faith and effort involved, but a failure to acknowledge when the number of requests or attempts to twist sources and arguments with synthesis to present a particular point of view becomes unreasonable. This may be when impatience shows with statements that question the motives of other editors, rather than moving-on... —PaleoNeonate – 19:15, 20 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by 力[edit]My sense is that HSG is trying to be helpful at Woke, but has lost the plot in continually suggesting that every mention of the term be added to the article, and now the content disputes have turned into personalized disputes. I endorse Bishonen's page ban. I'm not familiar with this editor otherwise (and most of their edits in the past 6 months are at Woke or Talk:Woke), I don't see cause for a full AP2 block here. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 23:06, 21 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Hodgdon's secret garden[edit]
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Amanda A. Brant
[edit]| There is not a clear consensus that Amanda A. Brant has violated discretionary sanctions. The prevailing view is that this is a content dispute. The sources in this subject very much disagree on the subject and the editors involved disagree about which sources should be given weight. I am going to place the page in question under DS 1RR restriction as well as a consensus required restriction. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 07:16, 24 October 2021 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Amanda A. Brant[edit]
The diffs above are a selection from a much broader range of talk-page contributions that demonstrate animus against the BLP subject and article edits that seem intended to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, at the expense of balance and encyclopedic tone. Given the toxicity of current discourse and the harassment experienced by the BLP subject (the police have advised her to install cctv at her home: [29]), we need a much more careful approach to contributions/editing on this particular article. In my view a logged warning is in order.
Discussion concerning Amanda A. Brant[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Amanda A. Brant[edit]Statement by Sideswipe9th[edit]With respect to diffs 4 and 5, I believe they are an accurate representation of the sources used. The lead has been subject to much discussion over the last few days. Diffs 1-3 represent a difference of opinion between Nomoskedasticity and Amanda A. Brant, especially when it comes to choice of language but that is not unusual in this topic area. I would like to point out that Nomoskedasticity seems to have taken umbrage with Amanda in this reply over choice of language, and is currently being antagonistic against Newimpartial both over in this discussion and on Nomoskedasticity's talk page where they seem to be trying to bait an ANI report against them. Although I'm a relatively new editor, having reviewed the Gender and Sexuality remedy, I can't immediately see any behaviour from Amanda that strikes me as a breach. I would not recommend any action be taken against Amanda.
Statement by PaleoNeonate[edit]I look at the diffs but don't interpret them the way they are presented. For instance a removal claimed to be for IDONTLIKEIT reasons was only an editorial. Another argument above is that people or groups should be described as what they claim (outside of gender or religious affiliation), when WP relies on descriptions by reliable independent sources... —PaleoNeonate – 21:31, 16 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by XOR'easter[edit]To echo PaleoNeonate's comment above, I find the diffs presented to be much less problematic than they were made out to be. Describing a philosopher as "exceedingly obscure" based on their citation count is no worse than what we do at the Academics and educators AfD's every day, for example. One might dispute the evaluation, but it's a fair position to hold. Diffs 2 and 3 are sensible objections to splitting terminological hairs. Likewise, the edit to the lede seems broadly in compliance with MOS:LEDE, giving key points from the text that follows. Doubtlessly it could have been written in a different way, but it's not beyond the pale by any means. XOR'easter (talk) 22:41, 16 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Crossroads[edit]The edits above, and on the page in general, show a clear pattern of WP:Tendentious editing, WP:SOAPBOXing about the topic, and editing based on her own opinions; and I will present more diffs a little later today. For the record, this removal was not just an editorial; it also removed a letter from trans people who had supported Stock and which had been discussed in a normal article in that newspaper. It has since been restored with a reference to another newspaper that mentioned it. Crossroads -talk- 22:57, 16 October 2021 (UTC) Here are more diffs documenting this editor's problems with this article. Note that the editor has received the BLP DS notice as well. These are all at the same article in just the past few days. Article:
Talk page:
All the OP was asking for was a logged warning. Based on how much disruption there has been in such a short time, I'd be more inclined to favor a topic ban from Kathleen Stock, or from BLPs involved in transgender-related controversies. Crossroads -talk- 05:00, 17 October 2021 (UTC) added talk page diffs Crossroads -talk- 05:13, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Comment: I'm aware that people will try to nitpick some of the diffs shown. However, the point is to show a pattern, which is what WP:Tendentious editing is. And quite a few diffs can't be explained away. BLP does apply even when some editors don't like the person, and it is strict and applies to talk pages. Crossroads -talk- 05:48, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Regarding claims that there is "TERF-advocacy" going in this area, if that were so, then we would be seeing editors clamoring to add labels of praise to the lead of Stock's bio, disparaging her critics personally, claiming that the mainstream media were "anti-woman" (as they'd put it) for being insufficiently deferential to their POV, and advocating for the superiority of their equivalent of PinkNews. None of that is happening. Resisting POV pushing is not pushing an opposite POV. It is the duty of every editor. Crossroads -talk- 03:08, 18 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Newimpartial[edit]I agree with the Admin suggestion that 1RR on Kathleen Stock would be more appropriate than any sanctions directed at Amanda A. Brant. Newimpartial (talk) 00:34, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by SMcCandlish[edit]Generally concur with Crossroads, other than diffs 4 and 5 might not be so problematic. This editor is clearly failing WP:NOT#ADVOCACY and WP:NPOV policies. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 02:13, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Comment by GoodDay[edit]Looks more like a content dispute, rather then an editorial behaviour problem. Recommend not enforcing. GoodDay (talk) 02:42, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Let's be careful, on how this case is handled, as it may create precedent for any future WP:AE reports, around this general topic. GoodDay (talk) 15:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Firefangledfeathers[edit]I haven't reviewed all of Crossroads' diffs, but many seem like edits they don't like with the word "tendentious" tacked on. Taking the first diff as an example: the edit didn't just pull "transphobic fear mongering" out of nowhere. It's a direct quote from an open letter signed by about 600 philosophers. It's fair to debate whether that belongs in the lead; taking either position in that content dispute is not sanction-worthy. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 05:31, 17 October 2021 (UTC) Contribution by Tewdar[edit]This diff added a claim that "Stock received broad media attention in January 2021 when she was criticised for transphobia in a letter signed by 600 philosophers and other academics, who objected to her receiving an OBE." - as far as I can tell from both the open letter and the PinkNews article, the claim that "she was criticised for transphobia" is not supported by either source, unless I am missing something here. Perhaps we should all take more care to report what the cited sources actually say, especially since so many editors in this topic area usually pay so much attention to small details such as this. Tewdar (talk) 12:34, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Contribution by RolandR[edit]Oh come on, Tewdar! The open letter from hundreds of philosophers is actually headed "Philosophy Transphobia Letter". They write "Stock is best-known in recent years for her trans-exclusionary public and academic discourse on sex and gender, especially for opposition to [amendments to*] the UK Gender Recognition Act and the importance of self-identification to establish gender identity, and for advocating that trans women should be excluded from places like women’s locker rooms or shelters", and later "our concern is that some — apparently including the British government — have a tendency to mistake transphobic fearmongering for valuable scholarship". This is quite clearly describing Stock's arguments as "transphobic fearmongering". RolandR (talk) 12:45, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Aquillion[edit]I will point out that SMcCandlish's statement that These sorts of things are only likely to be resolved either a willingness to broadly assume good faith for everyone in the topic area, or, more likely, by a more comprehensive ArbCom case to examine the long-term behavior of everyone involved. If multiple editors believe that the entire topic area is swarming with one-sided POV-pushing, and are consistently editing from that perspective, then reaching compromises on even simple content disputes like these is going to be very difficult. We need a venue where anyone who thinks that can either make their case once and for all or be forced to drop it (or leave the topic area themselves, if they seem unable to). In my view, though, these constant vague and sweeping accusations of bad faith, more than anything else, are what makes this particular topic area so wrought, since it not only disrupts the consensus-building process but encourages others who see it to take the same strident battleground stance in a way that makes collaborative editing extremely difficult. --Aquillion (talk) 05:27, 20 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Amanda A. Brant[edit]
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Nableezy (part II)
[edit]| Complaint has been withdrawn. BilledMammal is warned that groundless or vexatious complaints may result in blocks or other sanctions. Sockpuppet claims are best raised at SPI. -- Euryalus (talk) 19:23, 24 October 2021 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Nableezy[edit]
I believe this is the appropriate location for this, being personal attacks in the ARBPIA area, as well as the fact that the nature and timing of the discussion is likely to dissolve into a mess at ANI, but apologies if I am incorrect. Nableezy is a prolific sockpuppet hunter, and there is nothing wrong with that, but there is something wrong with how they do it. Rather than carefully gathering evidence to present at SPI, their initial steps are to throw out accusations or pointed insinuations, contributing to an WP:UNCIVIL environment in an already contentious area. I won't cover them throwing out accusations, as that has been recently discussed in the ZScarpia Case, but I will cover their insinuations. In particular, this was prompted by their recent post on my talk page of This is a very pointed question, particularly if one is even vaguely aware of their history, one that there will only ever be one answer to, and one that casts aspersions on the editor it is aimed at, particularly as it is presented without evidence. This interpretation is not a fringe one; many editors consider it an accusation and violation of WP:ASPERSIONS, with diff #3 and diff #4 serving as examples of this. Attempts to voluntarily correct this behaviour has failed; in diff #2 they show that they consider there to be nothing wrong with their approach and if it is appropriate to request remedies I would ask that when it comes to directly or indirectly accusing editors of sockpuppetry in the ARBPIA area that Nableezy is required to do so only at SPI.
Discussion concerning Nableezy[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Nableezy[edit]There is in fact more than one answer to the question, a question I think reasonable when this is somebody's first edit. Among the possible answers is yes I used to edit under account X, or I used to edit as an IP and became familiar with the processes and templates, or "no". Asking somebody, one time, a question that allows them to give a reasonable explanation so that I might stop spending my time on something that has some other reasonable explanation is not an "aspersion", it is not an "accusation", and it is not prohibited by any rule or policy. Also not entirely sure how a user with 2436 edits knows so much about my history with socks, but I suppose that is another curiosity I can spend time trying to figure out. nableezy - 13:03, 24 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Shrike[edit]@Seraphimblade: Because all those users are operate mainly in the area and all the aspirations were made regarding the edits in the area --Shrike (talk) 10:09, 24 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Selfstudier[edit]It all started at Talk:Wehda Street airstrikes/Archives/2021/December#Recent reverts and then "spread" to Talk:2006 Qana airstrike#NPOV and massacre as well as one or two other articles and is essentially an arcane discussion about whether article altnames (massacres in these cases) should be categorized in addition to main article titles. Then one thing has led to another but this issue shouldn't be here at all, really.Selfstudier (talk) 11:05, 24 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000[edit]Asking a question is not casting aspersions. That's just silly. In fact, WP:Sockpuppetry/Notes for the accuser recommends it: " Comment by GoodDay[edit]If one believes that an editor is a sock of another editor. Then he/she should open up an SPI. GoodDay (talk) 17:03, 24 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by Volunteer Marek[edit]Waitaminute, does anyone here sincerely believe that this BilledMammal (do platypus quack?) is not a sock? Volunteer Marek 18:49, 24 October 2021 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Nableezy[edit]
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Dabaqabad
[edit]This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Dabaqabad
[edit]- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Apaugasma (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:38, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Dabaqabad (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log#Horn of Africa (part of ARBHORN)
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 24 August 2021 Reverting without explaining at the talk page (reinstating unreliably sourced content)
- 10 September 2021 Reverting without explaining at the talk page
- 28 September 2021 Reverting without explaining at the talk page (reinstating unreliably sourced content)
- 10 October 2021 Reverting without explaining at the talk page (reinstating unreliably sourced content)
- 10 October 2021 Reverting without explaining at the talk page (removing sourced content)
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 25 January 2021 Dabaqabad blocked for 48 hours (disruptive editing in ARBHORN area)
- 4 March 2021 ARBHORN DS editing restriction imposed
- 24 August 2021 Dabaqabad blocked for 1 week (violating ARBHORN DS restriction)
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
After having been blocked on 25 January 2021 for disruptive editing in the ARBHORN area, Dabaqabad was placed under a special editing restriction by El C on 4 March 2021, reading you are to always follow a revert with an article talk page comment explaining it in any and all WP:ARBHORN topic area pages or edits (whatsoever)
. They were warned on 23 March 2021 for violating the restriction. On 16 August 2021, they got into an edit war in an ARBHORN-related article (obviously including reversion without engaging on the talk page). On 24 August 2021, I inquired on El C's talk page whether the editing restriction was still active, pointing out repeated violations [53] [54] [55] [56] [57], which lead El C to block Dabaqabad for one week.
Their very first edit after getting unblocked was already a violation of the restriction [58]. Like most of Dabaqabad's reverts that stay unexplained at the talk page, this was reverting vandalism/a test edit, so at the time I decided to just leave it be. However, looking at their last 100 edits, it becomes clear that Dabaqabad is violating the editing restriction imposed on them almost casually. It's also not always obvious vandalism, e.g. [59] [60] [61] [62]. However, it becomes really egregious at the point where they are reverting the addition of reliably sourced content [63] (perhaps undue, but per their restriction they should explain this at the talk), and especially when reverting the removal of unreliably sourced (mis)information [64] [65].
Dabaqabad has little understanding of what constitutes a reliable source (for a long read, see here), and combined with the uncommunicative attitude and the clear disregard for an existing editing restriction, I believe there is enough evidence that they are not compatible with the project of building an encyclopedia.
- Since ScottishFinnishRadish mentioned it: I too was confused about this at first, but yes, the ARBHORN discretionary sanctions were extended after their initial trial period (see here).
- Let me also note that restoring my revision here (as an 'alternative' to directly reverting the other user; the gaming here itself betrays that there's no lack of awareness) was indeed restoring misinformation (which I then removed 2 edits later): I don't mean to imply that it was necessarily in bad faith (misinformation is regardless of an intention to deceive), just that this should not happen. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 19:14, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
@El C: common sense was precisely what I tried to rely on when determining that Dabaqabad's many violations of their restriction were as a rule reverting vandalism. The fact that I come here now is not a 'gotcha' attempt, it's just that undoing the removal of badly sourced information really is a problem. The King Saud University source used here is an unedited manuscript of the Futūḥ al-Ḥabasha ('The Conquest of Abyssinia'), written in 1534 and the main primary source used by scholars for the Ethiopian–Adal war. This is a wholly inappropriate source for Wikipedia editors to base interpretative and evaluative statements on.
I happen to be able to read that manuscript, and it doesn't call the Habr Magaadle clan leader Aḥmad Guray ibn Ḥusayn al-Ṣūmālī the "right-hand man" of Imam Ahmad: rather, the Habr Magaadle are only one in a whole series of Somali clans that are named there (pp. 14/17-15/18), and their leader only one in a whole series of clan leaders who joined their forces with the Imam. I'll admit I was wrong here in suspecting that the Aḥmad Guray ibn Ḥusayn mentioned was a fabrication, though the two Aḥmads (the clan leader and the Imam) have been conflated in later times (see here). Anyway, that's why we have to rely on secondary, scholarly sources.
Dabaqabad has frustrated an earlier attempt by me to remove unreliably sourced information like this [66], and frankly the Ishaaq bin Ahmed article is still full of misinformation because of it. This has got nothing to do with assuming bad faith or 'getting' at other editors: I just really believe that it would be a huge improvement to Wikipedia if we would ban users from editing articles of which they clearly have no understanding on how to reliably source it. We're too focused generally on dramatic conflicts (blocking or banning users only when they cross some drama-line), and not enough on simply and dryly determining who is capable of writing an encyclopedia and who is not. Your custom sanction was certainly inventive, but I think it missed the main point in that someone who bases their edits on personal preconceptions rather than on what reliable sources happen to say, just ought not to edit at all. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 08:04, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- I know I'm over my word limit here, but let me make this short clarifying statement: I just think that the smiley with the Christmas hat
is really funny, and the most disarming among the available smileys. Erm, what I meant to say: what Dabaqabad is claiming below is basically that, because Somali Islamic hagiographies are being studied by respected scholars such as Alessandro Gori, we should be able to base WP articles on these hagiographies and present their contents as historical facts. It's a bit like arguing that because the Bible is extensively studied by respected scholars, we should be able to base WP articles on the Bible and present the contents of the Bible as fact. I very much respect Dabaqabad's energy and drive, but it's wholly directed at making WP present as facts what are essentially religio-nationalistic myths. It's such a pity that, because of the obscurity of the topic area, this is not more readily recognized. It's a classic case for a TBAN, really, but what is perhaps lacking is more editors who are familiar enough with the subject to see this. Thanks for trying to deal with this difficult issue anyway, ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 15:13, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Wadamarow: that's interesting. Dabaqabad also misrepresented the same source you mention in another article [67] (cf. my correction). I weirdly assumed that one to be a good faith error, but the diff you brought up clearly shows they are really intent on puffing up the Isaaq clan numbers and misrepresenting their proportion in relation to other clans (according to the source, the Gadabuursi actually outnumber the Isaaq). I think we should be done here now. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 21:48, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- The problem on the Djibouti page was caused earlier by Dabaqabad here (putting the info on its head without any source). I think it speaks volumes that after we pointed it out on this page, Dabaqabad did nothing to fix that problem. I did it in their stead. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 14:45, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Dabaqabad
[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
[edit]I think these sanctions expired back in March. Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all pages relating to the Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes) for a trial period of three months and until further decision of this Committee.
ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:32, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Well would you look at that. I've been under the assumption for some time now that they were expired. Thanks for the info. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:21, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Dabaqabad
[edit]Hello @Apaugasma:,
Most of these edits that I reverted were made by IP users or were unsourced, which I assumed would not warrant going to the talk page. I'm not on Wikipedia as often as I used to and am prone to forgetting the arbitration ruling sometimes (which is not acceptable at all), for which I am deeply sorry and will make sure to follow it as strictly as possible.
As for [69], I had explained earlier to him in [70] that the source he used, which was written in 1975 on behalf of the Ministry of Education of Somalia, at a time where Somalia was ruled by a clan-based military dictatorship, was not a valid source since the source twists the official narrative and contradicts many sources, including the very sources it cites. More on that there. On [71] I had reverted an edit that was clearly used out of context and which the source did not explicitly mention or back up. Again, I should have followed up with a message on the talk page. On [72] I had ironically restored your edit, and the source itself could be considered a primary source at worst (I did not originally add it in so I have no idea).
I'd also like to call on you to assume good faith as expected on Wikipedia. You calling my edits "misinformation" is not. I am here solely for the project of building an encyclopedia and improving Somali-related articles which have seen a lack of editors and therefore valuable information that many people can research and use (and which I have contributed to a lot). I have put a lot of time and effort into trying my best to improve a wide array of articles and if I make mistakes (which I inevitably do) then point it out for me so I can rectify them as soon as possible. Another thing I'd like to note is that all my sources I use are to the best of my knowledge reliable and might be misinterpreted as unreliable due to the foreign languages in which they are written in.
Many thanks, Dabaqabad (talk) 18:22, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
@Apaugasma: For the Ahmed Gurey reference, again that is not my text nor did I actually use that reference so I do not see why I should be under scrutiny for that. It's funny that you mentioned [73] since you had removed a lot of reliable sources and probably a third of the Ishaaq bin Ahmed page without reaching out first, claiming the sources cited were unreliable ([74], [75], [76])
I broke down each source one by one and explained where they came from and how they are reliable as can be seen on [77] however you rejected all of them in favour of IM Lewis, who (while being an expert in the wider Somali history genre) is not an expert at Somali genealogy and Islamic literary in the Horn of Africa and has had orientalist tendencies which we both agreed on per [78]. You flat out rejected all of these sources on the basis that IM Lewis had mentioned that certain recent hagiologies were myths (despite the fact that some of them were written decades before IM Lewis became active).
I tried to compromise with you (by proposing we include wording like "attributed" and "attested") but you rejected that as well with no basis whatsoever. This is despite the fact that many of the sources that were cited were either secondary sources by themselves (some are even published by Umm al-Qura University in Makkah, Saudi Arabia as well as in other universities) or referenced by credible scholars like Alessandro Gori in his book 'Studi sulla letteratura hagiografica islamica somala in lingua araba' (Studies on the Arabic Islamic Hagiographic literature in Somalia) [79]. The book also confirms most of, if not all the content that I had put in (including Sheikh Ishaaq's lineage [80], the origin of Ghurbani, the author of a manuscript that I cited as well as his credibility and independence [81] etc.)
Mind you, Alessandro Gori is an associate professor of the Arabic Language and Literature, his main field being the Islamic literary production of the Horn of Africa (especially Ethiopia and Somalia/Somaliland). That is literally his job, to document the manuscript tradition in the Muslim communities in north-eastern Africa (especially Ethiopia and Somalia/Somaliland). Since he can be identified as the foremost expert, he therefore takes precedence over IM Lewis, who is not an expert in that specific field as I mentioned earlier. Alessandro Gato has therefore also established that the sources that I had referenced in the Ishaaq bin Ahmed page have due weight. I can give you more detail on that later in the talk page.
Changing an entire page to suit the POV of one scholar and ignoring other sources on the basis that they are "primary" sources or are discredited by said scholar is something that I doubt is acceptable on Wikipedia. "Monopolizing" pages prevents useful and reliable information from being added on to the page which hinders Wikipedians from their goal; creating an encyclopedia. Then is the fact that like El_C mentioned, it feels like it's a "gotcha" moment (not accusing you or anything but just saying). I frankly don't see how this report has been done in good-faith in all honesty, and the fact that you claim that I base my edits on personal preconceptions rather than on what reliable sources say just slightly short of confirms that for me. My violations of the sanctions and the issue with sources (which is by itself nothing more than a mere disagreement between two users and not a rule violation) that you had brought forth are unrelated and cannot be tied together.
As for @El C:, I'm wondering: does the sanctions include IPs and non-established users (those who only have a few edits to their name)? It is a bit confusing to be frank.
Many thanks, Dabaqabad (talk) 13:17, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
@El C: I assure everyone in here that, upon given a final last chance, and now that I have properly read up on the sanction that was imposed on me, that I'll 100% stick to it and declare all reverts that I do in the talk page and ping the editors whose edits I have reverted. I very much regret the previous sanction violations that I have committed and can assure everyone on here that they will not be repeated at all. I fully understand the rules and regulations of Wikipedia and I will make as much effort as I can to fully follow them. The few issues that I have regrettably caused aside, I have contributed a lot to Somali articles (including writing several well-sourced pages like the Somaliland War of Independence, 1922 Burao Tax Revolt not to mention towns and districts) and would more than love to contribute even more.
As for @Freetrashbox:, let me explain my reverts now;
1. For [82], the source itself never mentioned the fact that the Musa Arreh inhabited the town or that it is one of their home wells (home wells = inhabiting in this context). It is a well known fact that the Musa Arreh don't reside in the Sool region, in fact, the only subclan of the Habr Yunis that do reside there are the Sa'ad Yunis. Since Somalis are nomadic clans tend to venture far into other clans' home wells and territories to graze during the drought season, which explains the part you mentioned. The Musa Arreh primarily reside in the Togdheer and Sanaag regions as well as the Somali Region in Ethiopia (specifically the Gashamo woreda).
2. For [83] the BBC article mentions clashes between two clans in Adhi'adeye. While in the Somali context the clans are pretty obvious, in Wikipedia's context that is not the case and upon further inspection I could not find the clans mentioned there. I will be doing more research on that topic however and will be adding a credible reference to that.
3. As for [84] the fact that Abdirashid Duale is of the Sanbur clan is well-known among Somalis. I was looking for a credible source to confirm that fact however I forgot to reference it on that page. Will be doing more research and will add a credible reference to that as well.
As for @RegentsPark:, understood.
- @Apaugasma: Funnily enough I actually thanked you on the correction you made on Djibouti, which would not have been the case had there been an intentional "puffing up" that you mentioned. The Isaaq figure was the only one that actually had a percentage mentioned, and I assumed they would be the second largest Somali clan however they are the fourth, per closer inspection. I'd like for you, however, to address the points I made regarding the Ishaaq bin Ahmed page.
- As for @Wadamarow:,
1. The first two edits have already been explained per my reply to Apaugasma
2. Per [85], I had actually explained to you the fact that the Habr Awal did have a presence in eastern Awdal. Instead of refuting that claim properly you essentially "threatened" (how I perceived it) to add "Samaroon presence in Gabiley" by saying "So in the interest of fairness, if you wish to add your source here, I will reciprocate and add it in Wajaale and Gabiley pages, which I'm sure you won't have an issue with. Rest assured, I have numerous sources for Gabiley and Wajaale, so I wont have a problem adding them all. I look forward to your response." (which goes against a long-standing consensus made after a length discussion [86]) in some sort of tit-for-tat game, while also saying "[...]I won't have to rely on your source, I have my own". That link also proves that I reached out to you as well. I also removed the excessive amount of blockquotes in accordance with WP:QUOTEFARM.
3. As for [87], I was under the impression that the Isaaq-majority town of Tog Wajaale fell under the Awbarre woreda (and which you also claimed it did up until 4 years ago), but upon closer inspection again we both came to a mutual understanding. You then once again "threatened" to add the "Samaroon" presence in Wajaale ("I could easily edit your Wajaale part and include Samaroon and I have plenty of sources to back up my claims, however since I do not wish to enter an edit war I have thus far not done so. If you insist on including Habar Awal in Awbarre, then I will insist on the same for Wajaale.") based on a source that only mentioned a land dispute. All of this while failing to assume good-faith by accusing me of "tampering".
I don't get how you are bringing up past events that I got warned for and which were resolved time ago, it seems to me that this is some sort of "gotcha" moment. You're beating a dead horse. Dabaqabad (talk) 22:18, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
@Wadamarow: These accusations of partisan editing is unfounded. None of my edits that I have done so far breach any rules and do not contain any reverting (which I have strictly avoided since arbitration began and which therefore do not necessitate mentioning them in the talk pages). I HAD actually added sources. It is funny to me how your position has changed from that of me "not adding enough sources" to now me not adding sources at all. This, along with what I mentioned before, proves to me that you're not doing this out of good-faith but rather to get rid of an editor whom you disagree with. Dabaqabad (talk) 22:29, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
@Apaugasma: I'm not saying that the Ishaaq bin Ahmed page should be based upon only one source, nor did I ever imply that, but rather that the massive amount of information and reliable sources that you removed is not justifiable, especially now that I proved to you that they are backed by and sourced by a respectable scholar. While I do not believe in this notion that the Isaaqs are anything but Cushites, we do need to put in reliable information from reliable sources, especially in fields that are lacking. You're comparing apples with oranges when it comes to the comparison with the Bible, funnily enough there are actually many pages that are based on the Bible and other religious scripts (while of course containing other sources). That alone negates your point. Not to mention the fact that many pages are also based on hagiographies and other Arabic primary and secondary sources as well. The irony in all of this is the fact that you yourself was basing almost the entire article on the words of IM Lewis.
As for what you consider "religio-nationalist myths", that is how you personally see it. You cannot base your edits on your own personal opinions, your personal opinions should not affect your editing at all nor should they reflect them. If you want to, we can discuss a fair compromise for the article. I do prefer the wording used in the Ababda people article, where the article acknowledges both sides of the argument. That at least is much better than the article using wording like "probably legendary" and essentially claiming that the article is fake. Dabaqabad (talk) 22:48, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
Hello @Apaugasma:. I assumed that it was already fixed given the fact that it was brought forth in the talk page. I will be fixing the edits that @Freetrashbox: addressed now. Dabaqabad (talk) 15:43, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Update: I removed the content I added on Abdirashid Duale after I failed to find a source to back it up [88], I'll be looking into that further as well. I'll also be looking into Dayaha as well. I saw that your edits on Adhi'adeye as well. @Freetrashbox: Dabaqabad (talk) 16:14, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Hello @Freetrashbox:,
I just added a few more sources that mention all five districts (see here). I hope that should be enough to confirm their existence. Dabaqabad (talk) 13:44, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Freetrashbox
[edit]- Moved from the section above. El_C 12:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
I am glad that you [Dabaqabad] welcome pointers to your edits. I've asked a few questions about sources on your talk page in the past [89][90][91], but you don't seem to have noticed yet. I am waiting for the answers.--Freetrashbox (talk) 10:13, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
You should attach sources to all of your unsourced statements, including the three above. And all your statements against WP:BLP should be revoked immediately. These are also true in general, and since you often undo other people's edits on the grounds that they are "unsourced," you should adhere to them especially closely.--Freetrashbox (talk) 20:55, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
@Dabaqabad: I have checked your edit mentioned at 16:14, 15 October 2021 (UTC). Thank you. However, it is still not enough. For example, in your recent edit on Sanaag, you reverted an IP user's edit as "vandalism". However, the source you indicated mentions Garadag, but not El Afweyn. When comparing the edits of you and the IP user, the third party editor will not be able to judge which one is correct. I am not saying that your description is wrong. IP users are objecting to your edits. In such cases, it is always a good idea to indicate the source of the information to prevent conflicts. And avoid extreme words such as "vandalism" as much as possible.--Freetrashbox (talk) 02:16, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
@Dabaqabad: Thanks for the correction. But it is not the only place where sources of information are lacking. What I've shown is just a random extract from your recent edits.--Freetrashbox (talk) 23:37, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
Dabaqabad probably doesn't understand what I'm saying. He has corrected the parts I pointed out, but has made no attempt to correct the others. He also continues to edit without sources (For example, this edit.) I often translate articles from the English Wikipedia to the Japanese Wikipedia, but I can't trust articles with him in the history.--Freetrashbox (talk) 10:53, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Wadamarow
[edit]Hi I would like to point out some previous violations committed by Dabaqabad.
1. In the most recent violations on the Djibouti pages which can be found here [[92]] and here [[93]]. Dabaqabad added a source to mask an edit that is not reflected in the actual source. The source which can be found here [[94]] does not state what is shown in the edit, this is tantamount to tampering with sources and in violation of Wikipedia guidelines. Dabaqabad also made this edit without mentioning it on the Talk page.
2. In the Awdal Region page which can be found here [[95]], Dabaqabad also committed similar violations where he relentlessly made edits which weren't reflected in the sources and only stopped tampering when he was warned by another admin. He also deleted sourced edits by other users.
3. In another instance on the Somali Region page he also tried to make edits without the correct use of a reference and attempted to remove sourced edits. [[96]]
This repeated pattern of behavior, where Dabaqabad does not follow the Wiki guidelines has unfortunately reduced the accuracy of some of the content on these pages. I have refrained from editing the Djibouti page so as to not get into an edit war with him. However, in light of these repeated violations a topic ban would be in the best interests of all concerned editors on the HOA Region.
- @Apaugasma: This isn't the first time it's happened either, on the Awdal page here [[97]] he removed sourced edits without reason and manipulated sources just as he did on the Djibouti pages. He also did the same on the Somali Region page here [[98]] this is despite being asked on the talk page to make sure he adds sources before editing.
Result concerning Dabaqabad
[edit]- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Apaugasma, while I'm not liking parts of this complaint —what makes that King Saud University source unreliable? Almost seems like a gotcha attempt there— it is nonetheless disappointing to learn that Dabaqabad somehow forgot (forgot?) about their ARBHORN sanction, when all they seem to edit are ARBHORN pages. I'm finding that a bit difficult to reconcile, tbh.
- As I mentioned on past occasions, this sanction was intended as a boon in lieu of a topic ban from all ARBHORN pages outright. Perhaps it ought to have been tightened to only include named accounts (that Dabaqabad could ping to a talk page) but exempting IPs unless their edits or explanations thereof are especially substantive. But I don't know how practical that would have been to enforce, what metric one would use to determine that, etc. Ideally, I'd like to count on common sense [That's it, that's the end of the sentence] Miss information, she be fierce!
- Erm, sorry. Where was I? Right, the custom sanction. Likely, it was a mistake, structurally, as they often prove to be. Certainly, it seems like it was a mistake in the sense that Dabaqabad couldn't remember that it existed. Anyway, I'm open to suggestions on how to proceed, because I'm sort of drawing a blank atm (though it is late). El_C 03:28, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- RE: {{p|holidays}} — look, Apaugasma, I'm okay with putting up the Christmas lights in November (late November), but on Sept 1? Come on, give Santa a chance to rest. Double erm. Yeah, I'm not sure how one here at en is expected to infer that from the source or your previous explanations concerning it (possibly I missed it), whose Arabic text Googly does not offer to translate.
- But beyond that, I'm having serious difficulties even remembering much of the context of the March 2021 events so as to tell what's what (or what was what then). I still might be open to a sanction that would allow Dabaqabad to continue editing ARBHORN pages in some limited capacity, as an alternative to a blanket (WP:BROADLY) ARBHORN WP:TBAN. But what that sanction might look like, I have no idea. If it even makes sense to not TBAN right now in light of Dabaqabad multiple failings to adhere to the sanction. El_C 12:39, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- Dabaqabad, I think it's bit late in the day to express confusion about a sanction which you just plain forgot existed, anyway. And before then, got blocked for violating. You've had so many months to seek clarifications. Not sure you realize this, but at this point, the likelihood that the current sanction will just be converted into a full ARBHORN topic ban is high.
- So it's probably best to deal with the underlying problems: sourcing issues, unexplained reverts (still), and assuring us that you'd even remember the existence of a sanction which covers the only topic area you edit. Again, that especially, inspires little confidence you could be relied upon to stick to the plan (whatever it might be and however it is defined as). El_C 13:34, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- RegentsPark, right, I was thinking of blocking for a few weeks. Myself, though, I'd like to also get the long term sorted in this request. El_C 14:08, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- Given how confusing all this is, the simplest solution is a block (whatever the appropriate escalation amount is) for clearly violating the restriction. @Dabaqabad: restrictions apply to all edits, whether they be IPs, new editors, or established editors. --RegentsPark (comment) 13:29, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- @El C: Whatever you think appropriate works. On the face of it, the violations are few in number but, looking over their edits, it is clear that the Horn of Africa is their only interest. A topic ban might clarify things. --RegentsPark (comment) 15:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment by Deepfriedokra Thanks, El C for everything you bring to this discussion (well, all discussions) and for sorting the sortliness of this mess. @Dabaqabad: two things stand out. First and foremost-- this is an encyclopedia and the Horn of Africa is a "sticky wicket." As important as sourcing is in an encyclopedia, it's even more important in as contentious (in real life and on Wikipedia) an area as this one. Almost equally important anywhere, but particularly in this area, is the need to communicate clearly via edit summaries and talk pages. Lack of communication equates to miscommunication equates to someone getting the (maybe) wrong idea about what you are doing. And so here we are here now. I propose a six month TBAN of the subject area during which Dabaqabad can improve their skills at sourcing and communication. As onerous as this may sound, there are 6 x 106 articles on Wikipedia that need improvement. While it may be discomfiting to move out of a chosen area, it is also an opportunity to grow and improve. While blocking would have the desired effect of stopping the disruption, it would not provide this opportunity. And we can always resort to blocking if the TBAN is insufficient. (There's a really great quote from a Jerry Pournelle story comes to mind that's too awkward to fit in here.) But yeah, Dabaqabad, we'd hate for it to come to that. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:56, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
- I support Deepfriedokra's proposed topic ban solution as the best response in that it potentially avoids the need for blocking and provides time for the user to educate themselves on the rules and standards. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 02:11, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Dhawangupta
[edit]| This matter is primarily a content dispute. Parties are advised to utilize dispute resolution processes such as a request for comment if regular discussion has come to an impasse. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:00, 25 October 2021 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Dhawangupta[edit]
They are certainly not the only editor with similar conduct at Talk:Breast Tax (the entire talk page is filled with persistent demands to declare it a hoax) but this seems to be a long established pattern with them. The date and time in the above diffs are in IST. Tayi Arajakate Talk 19:13, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Dhawangupta[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Dhawangupta[edit]
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Dhawangupta[edit]
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