arduinna: a tarot-card version of Linus from Peanuts, carrying a lamp as The Hermit (Default)
[personal profile] arduinna
I completely failed to get this posted last week as planned, but at least there's only been one new episode of anything since then thanks to March Madness. So here are some sort of random observations/reactions to some of the shows I'm watching (assume spoilers through current episodes, although I've cut put nested cut tags for specific recent spoilers):

Fringe

Oh, Fringe. <3 I love this show, and all its wackiness, and its focus on identity and how different versions of the same people can have such drastically different relationships. In its own way, this is like what drew me to SG1 all those years ago, with the different versions of people in different universes, and things like shapeshifters taking over people's lives (although that doesn't quite reach the level of "alien entity taking over one's body and mind").

I love, love, love how every version of Walter is so different, and yet so unarguably Walter; and how the loss of Peter in different ways turns him into such different people. I was completely floored when new-red-universe Walter turned out to be a good guy -- because he'd been able to mourn and heal from the loss of Peter, rather than being stuck forever in the loss and grief. And Olivia, too, with so many distinct faces. <3

The orange universe (... I know everyone else calls it amber, but to me, the amber universe is the same as the red universe, because red universe is the one that uses amber. Also orange is the complement to blue on the color wheel; I feel like if we had used red universe as our base universe, the truly-alt version we'd be focused on would be green.)

Anyway. The new "real" universe is fascinating and tragic; I feel so bad for Olivia and Peter and Walter. Watching all of their intersecting, shifting relationships, of expecting someone to love them who doesn't, and loving someone who doesn't love them back, or learning to love someone whether they want to or not - ow, just ow. It's breaking my heart, watching Peter, who spent years trying to hold himself separate and finally learned to love Walter, reach out to this Walter when he echoes Peter's Walter, who's afraid to reach back, then watching Walter start to thaw and reach back, even though if Peter leaves as planned (which he can't, but they don't know that) Walter's heart will break all over again. <3 *hands* <3

And watching Peter yearn for Olivia and not find her in this Olivia and come to terms with that, then her cortexiphan-laced brain found its way back into its original grooves and she's herself again and loves him so much, but he can't trust it, can't risk betraying her (her!) again by being with the wrong version of her... (I wonder, does Olivia remember that? Does she remember how much it tore her apart, knowing he'd been with Fauxlivia? And if she does, would that make his rejection harder or easier to bear? I mean, on the one hand, he doesn't want to betray his real Olivia, so he's being true to her as best he can -- but on the other, part of the betrayal was not recognizing her, thinking that the wrong woman was his Olivia. And now for him to look at a woman who effectively is his Olivia and say "I can't be sure..." -- my god, poor Liv.)

Also omg alt-Astrid. :( That episode about her was just heartbreaking; go our Astrid for making her feel better, even knowing that her own dad is as demonstrative as anyone could ask, and loves her to bits. (Although man, what must that be like, going home to hug your loving dad, knowing that in another universe, you turned out a little differently and he snubbed you for it?) I was so happy to see Blu Mankuma, though; he's been one of my favorite actors ever since his stint as Captain Reese on Forever Knight. I was also really glad to see alt-Astrid get out of Fringe Division and to see some of her personal life. <3 I was starting to wonder if they had her chained to her table in the other universe.

I want to know which Nina has been doing what -- is the Nina who raised Olivia the one who's been dosing her with cortexiphan, or has she been replaced for so long that we've never seen the "real" one? Or is the alt-Nina coming intermittently, and if so, how is she pulling that off? But I loved when Olivia figured it out; you could see it in her face when alt-Nina answered the question wrong, and Liv switched from trying to figure out her memory to forcing them to bring her Peter so she could escape. She is so awesome, in every universe. (Also Anna Torv is so good at playing different versions of the same person, my god.)

Also wtf is Jones up to? I was not expecting him to come back, I admit. Although it was a whole lot of fun watching his face when Peter told him he'd watched him die, heh.

Anyway. I should really sit down and rewatch Fringe from beginning to current again, just to straighten out all the mixy timelines in my head and nail down some specifics. But in a lot of ways, I approach it the way I did Farscape, which is just to sit back and enjoy the ride. I tend to trust [personal profile] therienne and [personal profile] mollyamory to keep things straight for me; it's useful to have backup brains on tap. *g*

I don't know how anyone is writing this show. There are just so many threads to keep track of!

Once Upon a Time

Back when this and Grimm were both starting up, I watched both, and was much more taken with OUaT, so have been watching steadily. It feels like things are starting to drag as they start shoving in more fairy tales to get more characters in, after starting out much more focused, but I'm still enjoying it. Snow and James are way more interesting than Mary Margaret and David (although I do like that Mary Margaret has been changing steadily -- I loved Emma's observation that she used to be a "buttoned top button" kind of person, and really isn't, anymore); Regina is more interesting than the Queen (although she's interesting in her own right)

They nearly lost me two weeks ago with the Disney dwarfs; wtf, I know ABC is a Disney channel, but seriously, after subverting almost every other fairy tale, they had to go for "dwarfs are hatched from eggs [that are laid... we don't know how or by whom], who have no ability to love, and there are no female dwarfs so it doesn't matter [clearly there are also no gay dwarfs], and we are born to work in the mine and we are happy happy happy happy happy to do so! yay! hi-ho hi-ho, it's off to work we go!" with actual whistling, I just. Between that and the abrupt focus on a man's storyline out of nowhere (I know Grumpy helps Snow in the back story, but -- this still felt really weird), and the casting of Fred from Angel (whom I've never liked that much as an actress), and the equally stupid Disney Fairy Godmother tee-hee backstory for *her*... I really almost didn't watch last week's.

But I did, and I'm glad I did, because holy SHIT. Modern-day Ruby I don't care that much about -- she's nearly a cipher with Sudden Insecurities And Feelings tacked on -- but fairy-tale Red is a werewolf? Wow, okay, that was totally amazingly fantastic, especially after we've seen her so consistently as Snow's spunky confidante and friend but not much else. And wow, Red's self-inflicted loss makes her cheerful "go be with the one you love" support sort of amazing. There's just no self-pity involved there at all. I like this girl a lot.

Of course, given her real/hidden history, Ruby's reluctance to face her fears makes sense -- but it's still not all that interesting. I did love the sudden ability to smell/hear at a high level, though, and her granny's full-moon-achy arm, with the scars that carried through into Storybrooke, wow great touch -- and her fairy-tale granny's werewolfiness, too. Seriously, how fucking awesome is that?

I was impressed when they fridged the sheriff, but turning the scared little girl into the big bad wolf? And the bedridden granny? And tying the whole thing into the menstrual cycle? \o/ All the love in the world, man. Especially for post-menopausal granny staying totally kickass, and sitting there every month with a crossbow ready to do whatever she has to do, while facing down an entire village to protect her family however she has to.

They have won me back.



And then last night's episode just built on that (although it's going to take a lot to top the werewolf). I lost it when we saw Snow actively being the Disney Snow White, with the humming and the swooning about and reaching for the happy singing CGI bluebird -- then trying to whap the shit out of it with a broom. *dies* Okay, good job of saying "We're not Disney." Hee.

Mind you, I'm a lot less happy with the idea that forgetting your true love turns you into a cold-hearted asshole. I think they handled that part really badly; I know the show is all about how True Love Is Magical (although how much do I love Rumpelstiltskin for going all Princess Bride with the "twoo wuv", hee), but not having a true love doesn't actually make you a sociopath. Really.

I also can't believe Mary Margaret was stupid enough to use that key. She knows she's being framed so she... helps her framer frame her even more as a fugitive? Really? Okay, then. Fairytale Snow is so much smarter, man. Although good for Mary Margaret, kicking David out of the jail; man, he's also much better in the old world. I mean, sure, it's rough when you remember your gf threatening to kill your wife, but dude, look at the hair and clothes!

... Okay, so many it's just rough starting to wake up from the curse, and being the only person with access to your old memories, however faint and buried. Still. I hope they get their backbones and personalities back soon.

Regina must really miss her old wardrobe. That outfit she was wearing on the trip to the summer palace was amazing, and the sober business suits really can't hold a candle to it.

So did the creepy writer guy re-create Henry's book with different stories, or what? I'm baffled by his storyline (despite a moment of sheer "hah go me!" early on, when I figured out he was a writer before he said so; I have a typewriter very like his that I inherited from my mom, who used it throughout the 50s-70s, so I figured out that's what was in his box). I don't quite get why he's shadowing this little boy and building trust with him. Who is he, in the old world? And if he's not from the old world, how does he know so much?

Look like I'm definitely still watching. *g*

Grimm

So like I said, I watched Grimm its first week, along with OUaT, and OUaT grabbed me much more strongly; Emma and Snow and Regina were just such more interesting characters than Nick (although if Marie hadn't landed in a coma in the first ep, and looked like she were going to have a stronger role, I might have gone for it). So I stopped watching, figuring I wasn't missing much; it looked pretty standard for these days, and if you're going to do "fairy/folk tales are real", I'd rather it be more like Lost Girl, where *all* the fairy tales are real, everywhere, not just the mostly-Germanic ones that Anglo-based culture happens to know best. I'm getting tired of seeing the same things done over and over again, when there are thousands of fabulous stories out there to draw on.

(... I know, that makes no sense, given that I like OUaT. But that's about a specific set of stories; Grimm seemed to be saying "fairy tales are real, but only these fairy tales. no other fairy tales exist." It makes sense in my head.)

Anyway, so I took a week off work a few weeks ago, and I'd never actually stopped my DVR from recording Grimm, and had 10 or 11 piled up, so I figured what the hell, I've seen people talking about this, maybe it got stronger. And I sat down and marathoned everything over about two days.

And hey, it got stronger! \o/ And started branching out to include other fairy tales (a little bit, anyway), and giving indications that there have been lots of Grimms traveling the world (and that Nick is definitely not the only existing Grimm).

Monroe is turning out to be a lot more fun than I'd expected; I sort of love how he's the reformed big bad wolf who looks all mousy and unthreatening until someone lower than him on the Wesen scale doesn't do what he wants, and then he's all RAR TEETH RAR and they back off, because hey, he's still the big bad wolf, here!

I'd been thinking from the getgo that "kill all the fairy tale creatures" was sort of black-and-white thinking (okay, Marie originally said "all the bad ones", but there didn't seem to be a good way to differentiate), and I started getting intrigued when every single Wesen he met cringed away and begged him not to kill them -- even the refrigerator repair guy, running from the house and Nick's fiancee like the hounds of hell were after him. In their world, Nick is totally the bad guy, and he's expected to be utterly ruthless and kill every one of them he finds. They beg for mercy but they don't expect to get any. Which is really sort of interesting.

Also, wtf do they see when they look at him? It's not immediate, but there's clearly a moment when a big Grimm sign goes off over his head and they see it. Is he Wesen? Half-Wesen? Because as [personal profile] therienne and [personal profile] mollyamory pointed out to me (I hadn't particularly noticed, strangely), Nick is tiny in comparison to pretty much everyone around him. Either he works with giants, or he's really just small. (Okay, I just looked him up on imdb where it says he's 5'11", which seems unlikely, but otoh the captain is reportedly 6'4", so maybe they really are just surrounding him with really tall men to make him look smaller?)

Also interesting is the captain, who has veered around for me; he was intriguing early on because he clearly knew who Nick was, and was involved in killing Marie, so - bad guy! But then he was clearly protecting Nick but for no visible reason, and I was getting bored/cranky about it; great, yeah, mysterious Wesen captain with his own unknown agenda, but man, either show us what it is or don't go there. And then he was all freakishly "kneel before me, peon" and the Reaper knelt down and holy crap, what was going on here? The captain is clearly a power to be reckoned with -- nobility, if not outright royalty, and wow, what's up with this?

He doesn't quite seem to be trying to control Nick, he's just letting him find his feet -- but he made damn sure to cut him off from his trainer, so he has to learn on his own. Very very interesting. And then we get the whole bit with the half-naked posing in front of the mirror while dreaming of world domination, and I would like more of the half-naked bits, please. Yum. (Less of the domination; I'm glad he lost the coins. But the shirtlessness, he can just keep right on going with that, thanks.)

And the pet priest he has on hand to take out his enemies with ruthless brutal abandon? Meep. Okay, then. Although we still don't know what the captain is. Other than very very in control of himself.

So basically we've got a universe where there are fae -- pardon, Wesen -- politics very much behind the scenes, and a man with two partners and a fiancee. It's going to be really interesting to see if we get more of the politics; how organized is Wesen society?

I like the fiancee, but I suspect she's not long for the show; she's been less and less a presence, and this last ep with her being in some really serious fucking danger, directly because of Nick, is a valid reason for her to decide to walk, and Nick is liable to let her given Marie's instructions that he should have walked away immediately. (It'll be a pity, though, as that will take out the one regular female cast member, which, argh. This show is ridiculously low on women even in supporting roles, which is weirding me out. Clearly women in this universe aren't meant to be weak; Marie's name strikes fear into the Wesen, and Juliette took out an ogre when Nick couldn't. But everything is about the men, all the damn time. It really is the reverse of OUaT. At least we have that for balance.)

I wish we were getting a bit more of the police side of things; I like his partner Hank a lot, and the snarky Sergeant Wu they're always matched up with (although the logistics of who gets sent to what crime scenes when is just baffling), and I'd love to see more of both of them. Although I'm really happy with the episode where Hank was the one with the history with the Wesen, even if he didn't know it; really nice way to both keep him involved in the Wesen end of things and make it clear that Wesen are everywhere. Sort of to the point I don't understand why they're hidden. I mean. They're EVERYWHERE. If human brains didn't break at the sight of them, there'd be absolutely no way for them to stay hidden.

Tangent -- I don't entirely understand why human brains break, either; we're actually pretty capable of believing all sorts of stuff. It puts the Wesen on a different plane of existence, almost -- like demons or angels, beings whose existence is so outside the realm of human experience that our brains literally can't encompass them -- which makes no real sense when matched up with the sheer mundanity of the Wesen existence we've seen, not just in how they interact with humans, but how they interact with each other. /tangent

I'm -- well, not surprised, but disappointed that there's no slash at all on AO3 for Nick/Hank; mostly it's Nick/Monroe, with some Nick/Renard and a scattering of other one-shots. I can totally see why people are glomming on to Nick and Monroe's relationship and chemistry, because it's fab and getting better all the time, and stories can actually include Grimm-type stuff, but Hank has history with Nick, and there's tons of trust there, and on a purely shallow note, he's pretty, dammit. He has a few stories paired with Wu, but that's it.

I've had fun with the Nick/Monroe stories I've read so far, and I'll happily keep on reading, but if anyone knows of any Nick/Hank, feel free to point me at them! (as is probably obvious by now, most of my reading is done off AO3, and even that's sort of intermittent -- so really I'll take any recs at all for Grimm *g*)

Unrelated to any of that, man, Voodoo Doughnuts is cutting some really interesting deals with production companies who shoot locally! I first noticed them on Leverage, where a huge deal was made out of eating their (to my eyes, revolting) doughnuts; they also showed up in Grimm, both more obviously (with Juliette saying "I brought Voodoo doughnuts!" or something specific like that) and less obviously (by not showing us any of the [revolting] doughnuts). (Okay, they're probably not all revolting -- but the frosted doughnut covered in Froot Loops that they showed on Leverage still gives me the shudders.) It's just so odd to me that a local chain (with a whopping three locations, all in Oregon) would buy product placement time like that! (Although maybe they're buying it in trade -- "we'll give you free doughnuts if you put them on air!")

Lost Girl
I'm behind on Lost Girl (the original Canadian Showcase airings; I can't bring myself to watch the SyFy airings and see how much they must be cutting, because wow they must be cutting a lot), and when I'm not watching it it sort of fades into a general background "oh yeah, I watch that show" -- but when I am watching it, I remember that I actually really like it a lot. So it's a little vague and distant for me right now because I haven't seen anything since December, but eventually I'll get hold of the last couple months' of eps and will catch up and will love it again.

But I definitely like the way Lost Girl handles "I've removed your true love" a hundred times more than the way Once Upon a Time did; Dyson didn't become less Dyson, even though everything he felt for Bo was gone; he didn't even become less Dyson even though his ability to be in love with anyone was gone.

I'm digging the new Ash; I like characters who start out looking like bad guys and turn out to have been working for the greater good all along (even if some of his methods are horrific). I really appreciate that there was a slow build there, and that Bo's navigating the political waters mostly blind.

Also, that dark fae she slept with? Completely right that if she's really neutral it shouldn't matter. She may call herself neutral, but she's totally aligned herself with the light fae.

This show is clearly a goldmine for femslashers -- about half the fic on AO3 is femslash (with the rest being het or gen), so hopefully the US airings, even if they're chopped up, will let more people see it.

I'm sort of fascinated to see that Bo/Lauren is the big pairing; I mean, it makes sense given canon, but I kind of can't stand Lauren, and have never quite understood why Bo seems to have fallen for her so hard. I think I was expecting to see more Bo/Kenzi, but not so much.

Meanwhile, I'll be over here waving a tiny Dyson/Hale flag in hopes someone writes it. *g* (There's none on AO3; the sole slash story is a crossover with H50, and the pairing is Steve/Danny.)

I think that's it for currently airing SFF. I'm waiting for a couple others to come back for a new season (fingers crossed).

Haven

I'm caught up on Haven, and it's a happy place for me, which was unexpected; I'd ignored it for the entire first season and a bit because it was based on a Stephen King story, and I'm really not a King fan. But like Dead Zone, this particular show really works for me (and turns out, it has some of Dead Zone's showrunners, including Shawn Piller and Lloyd Segan. DZ fans, take note -- Segan is the one who convinced the Pillers to do DZ, and they're the ones who made the first three seasons of DZ so awesome.

And interestingly, they're involved in another show that has an almost immediate OT3 (of two men with an antagonistic history who both like the same woman, who keeps bringing them together. Yeah.)

Although that's one of those things I can see and will happily cheer people on about, but it's not my thing; I'm all about the Nathan/Duke, and the hints we get dropped throughout that they may be antagonistic, but they've been pretty close parts of each other's lives for a pretty long time -- things like that little bottom-top bottle-clinking ritual they have, which they never fail to perform when they're drinking things together. You don't do that casually; that's an actual thing that those two have been doing for a very long time, and whatever fighting they've done over the years hasn't been enough to get either one of them to stop. <3

But I'm also all about the overall story, and finding out what the hell is going on in this town, anyway. What are Dave and Vince up to (and how does cuddly Dave get so damn scary sometimes?), and is the Chief rumbling himself back together (dear god, the plaid-flannel-covered rocks), and wtf Duke's affliction, and the Rev's witch hunts, and and and.

More show, please!


Alphas

I wasn't sure what to expect with Alphas, but it turns out I pretty much adore it, mostly because these characters may have super abilities but are so, so not superheroes. [personal profile] therienne did a great breakdown of what makes Alphas so awesome last summer, just over halfway through the season. The show just kept going from there, making it clear that the "enemy" the Alphas team was supposed to be finding really may well have been the good guys just trying to stay alive in the face of an extremely hostile government, using the Alphas as tools.

The season ended on a cliffhanger I didn't expect to see so early in a show's life. It's a huge game-changer, and I can't wait for the second season to see how it affects things.

I hope more people watch it, too; this doesn't seem to get much fannish love, maybe because it really is a true ensemble show that lends itself to gen. But there's so much scope to explore -- shadowy government stuff for conspiracy fans, mutant abilities for mutant fans, family dynamics, team dynamics, team-as-family dynamics, canonical romances (Nina and Cam, who don't particularly interest me, or Gary and Anna, who do), noncanonical romances (six main characters plus awesome recurring characters and plenty of one-shots), ... it's endless, and huge fun.

It's also one of the few SF shows on right now; everything else is slanted much more heavily toward fantasy, but this one is rooted in genetics.

You should catch up on first season before second starts, if you haven't seen it yet! Last year it started up in July, so that's probably the start time for this season, too.


Whew. I've probably forgotten half a dozen shows, but this is quite long enough.

(edited to fix cut tags argh why can't you see those on preview!)

Date: 2012-03-20 01:00 am (UTC)
kass: Peter Bishop (peterbishop)
From: [personal profile] kass
Friiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinge!

♥ ♥ ♥

Yes to everything you said. *grin*

Date: 2012-03-20 01:34 am (UTC)
cereta: Flyer from Haven's opening credits (Haven Flagg)
From: [personal profile] cereta
I'm really, really tired, so I will just say: Fringe! Lost Girl! Grimm! HAVEN! HAVEN HAVEN HAVEN!

Which is to say, yay, shows!

Date: 2012-03-20 01:56 am (UTC)
ainsley: (hope to keep safe from pain)
From: [personal profile] ainsley
Oh, I miss Haven! I marathoned it late last year at a friend's urging, and am so glad I did; it quickly became a favorite, and it has a lot of competition. It just makes me *happy*.

Date: 2012-03-20 04:18 am (UTC)
klia: (!)
From: [personal profile] klia
I'm still moping about the red-herring Alphas story you told a mutual friend you were writing for Yuletide. *sob*

Date: 2012-03-20 08:55 pm (UTC)
dorinda: Animated image of Jim kissing Plato on the temple, from a screen test for "Rebel Without a Cause" (JimPlato_animated)
From: [personal profile] dorinda
I'd ignored it for the entire first season and a bit because it was based on a Stephen King story, and I'm really not a King fan.

And see, I am a King fan, but that book drove me round the bend, so when I vaguely heard something was coming out based on it, I didn't follow up. The characters and the setting of the book were enjoyable, but the plot and its ham-handed, lectur-y meta implications bugged the crap out of me. Basically, it presents an intriguing premise, upon which are piled twist after twist, and it gets so mysterious and impossible that you wonder where the hell it could be going--and then it turns out it isn't going anywhere, and you shouldn't expect anything to add up, be resolved, or otherwise make sense, apparently that's not a storyteller's job so shut up about it, the end. And I was like...STEPHEN KING, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE WAY BETTER AT BEGINNINGS AND MIDDLES THAN ENDINGS, DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET A FREE PASS TO TORMENT ME AND SCOFF AT MY DESIRE FOR A UNIFIED STORY.

*cough* ANYway, I felt burned by that, and more, I think it's an unfortunate sinkhole that some TV shows end up falling into--the Eternal Middle, where new beginnings/mysteries keep piling on because those are cool and interesting and attention-getting, but the old conglomeration of mysteries are never resolved or woven together. Like Lost or The X-Files, for just two instances, but it unfortunately happens all the time. So I was afraid that a show "based on" that particular book would subscribe to that particular mindset, and no thanks.

However! Once I listened to you peoples and actually watched it, I felt much better. I'd say it's "inspired by" Colorado Kid rather than "based on"--it has the setting, the mood, and modified versions of the characters, which were the things I actually liked about the book. But it doesn't seem to be subscribing to the Eternal Middle where new mysteries are constantly introduced but old ones are never resolved. Like, in Haven, some questions are indeed answered, not just covered up with new questions. And the old questions-and-answers are part of everyone's memory, part of the history of the story being told, they don't just disappear because the writers wrote themselves into a hole. And characters die sometimes, or leave, or change and grow (in good ways or even in bad).

the hints we get dropped throughout that they may be antagonistic, but they've been pretty close parts of each other's lives for a pretty long time

In rewatching and whatnot, I was reminded that as recently as "a couple of years ago," Nathan would still go out fishing with Duke (and Duke would want him to!). But then it turned out that Duke was using him as cover for a smuggling op, so that Nathan could flash his badge in case they got stopped. Nathan took exception to this, and they fist-fought for an hour--which is when Nathan's Trouble returned.

I find that interesting, partly for how recently they still hung out together (without needing an Audrey to smack their heads and make them), partly for how sudden and violent the (most recent) break was...and partly for the idea that Nathan's Trouble came back precisely while he was fighting with Duke, and the way that that must have made the fight and the break so much worse. Doesn't Nathan finish that story with something like "And he didn't even care"? (e.g. about Nathan's Trouble returning while fighting Duke--which an angry/frightened Nathan might have even subconsciously *blamed* on Duke.)

I also think that in order to feel deeply betrayed by someone, you had to have deeply trusted them in the first place. And in order to feel deeply upset that someone didn't care, you had to have expected they would've cared. So there are all kinds of backstory implications in there for sure.

And really, the town and the show are full of fascinating backstory hints in general. Like you say, Dave--and Vince, too!--started out seeming so cuddly and avuncular, but since then we've seen them both be actively frightening (remember when Vince ran into Max Hanson? Brrrr!), as well as willingly hiding dark secrets and biding their time. And I find it interesting, too, the way that we're shown how in public they're the genial Teagues Brothers, but in private they're often practically at each others' throats, over troubling things we don't always know the half of.

I look forward to seeing more of it. Especially if this season Nathan would kindly take his shirt off plz thx. :D (Why should Duke have all the exhibitionism fun?)
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