The Blue Jays and Guardians are in agreement on a four-player trade sending second baseman Andrés Giménez to Toronto. The Jays get Giménez and reliever Nick Sandlin for infielder Spencer Horwitz and outfield prospect Nick Mitchell. No cash is changing hands, so the Jays are absorbing the final five years of the Giménez contract.
It’s the first out of nowhere trade of the Winter Meetings. While it’s never a complete shock to see Cleveland deal a high-priced player, there hadn’t been much to suggest they were shopping their Gold Glove second baseman. Giménez appeared to be a core piece since he signed one of the biggest contracts in franchise history just two seasons back: a seven-year, $106.5MM extension.
Instead, the defensive stalwart is on the move for the second time in his career. Giménez began his career with the Mets, where his well-rounded profile made him one of the system’s top prospects. Cleveland acquired him alongside Amed Rosario as the key pieces in their return for Francisco Lindor and Carlos Carrasco during the 2020-21 offseason.
Giménez struggled during his first year in Cleveland, but he had a breakout showing in 2022. He played plus defense to win his first Gold Glove. Giménez also turned in an impact season at the plate, hitting .297/.371/.466 with 17 homers across 557 plate appearances. He was a deserved All-Star and finished sixth in MVP balloting in the American League.
Following that breakout season, the Guardians signed Giménez to the aforementioned extension. It remains the second-largest investment in the organization’s history, not too far behind the $124MM deal which José Ramírez inked the preceding spring. Cleveland surely envisioned building their long-term infield around that duo.
That’s not quite how things played out, as Giménez’s bat has taken a step backward. The Guardians probably didn’t expect him to repeat the offensive production he managed in 2022. He had a lofty .353 average on balls in play that would be hard to maintain, nor was he likely to be hit by as many pitches (an AL-high 25) as he’d been that year. Giménez’s numbers probably dropped off more sharply than Cleveland anticipated, though, as he has been a below-average hitter in consecutive seasons.
In 2023, the lefty-swinging Giménez hit .251/.314/.399 with 15 homers across 616 plate appearances. He improved his contact skills but saw his walk rate and power numbers take a step back. Those trends continued this year. Giménez managed just nine homers in 633 trips to the plate. He kept his strikeout rate to a tidy 15.3% clip but drew walks at a career-low 4.1% mark. He wrapped up the year with a middling .252/.298/.340 slash — his weakest offensive output over his three full seasons in Cleveland.
Despite the concerning offensive trends, Giménez remains a valuable all-around player. He has stolen 30 bases in consecutive seasons and is a good overall baserunner. He hasn’t had an injured list stint since 2020 and has topped 140 games in each of the last three seasons. Most significantly, he’s the sport’s best defensive second baseman. Giménez has been named the AL’s Gold Glove winner in three straight years. He has racked up 59 Defensive Runs Saved over that stretch. That’s well above Marcus Semien’s 37 mark that ranks second at the position. Statcast’s Outs Above Average doesn’t point to quite as big a discrepancy (49 to 40), but both metrics consider Giménez the game’s best keystone defender.
The Jays have poked around the market at second and third base. They have a handful of young players who are capable of manning one or both of those positions — Ernie Clement, Will Wagner, Joey Loperfido, Addison Barger, Orelvis Martinez and Leo Jiménez among them — but it’s a group light on MLB experience. Giménez has a much higher floor in the middle infield. He’ll play second base for at least the upcoming season. That’s probably his long-term home, though he could be an answer at shortstop if Bo Bichette walks next offseason. Giménez came up as a shortstop. He hasn’t played there since 2022, but he’s an athletic enough defender that he could probably handle the position.
The Jays are taking on a decent chunk of money to make that happen. Giménez is under contract for at least the next five seasons. He’ll make $10MM next year, $15MM in ’26, and $23MM annually for the final three guaranteed years. There’s a $23MM club option for the 2030 campaign that comes with a $2.5MM buyout. The deal also calls for a $1MM assignment bonus in the event of a trade. Including that bonus, Giménez is guaranteed $97.5MM for his age 26-30 campaigns. RosterResource calculates the Jays’ projected luxury tax number around $229MM, putting them roughly $12MM below next year’s base threshold.
Toronto also deepens a subpar middle relief group with the Sandlin acquisition. The low-slot righty has a solid track record over four years in the big leagues. Sandlin, who turns 28 next month, carries a 3.27 earned run average across 195 1/3 career innings. Despite a pedestrian 92-93 MPH fastball, he has shown the ability to miss bats. Sandlin carries a career 27.7% strikeout rate, which he essentially matched over 57 2/3 frames this past season.
The Southern Miss product has middling control. Sandlin walked 11% of batters faced this year, right in line with his 11.4% overall walk percentage. That’ll probably keep him in the middle innings rather than leverage work, but Sandlin’s four-pitch mix has helped him avoid the platoon issues that plague many ’pen arms. The Jays are desperate for any kind of reliability in the bullpen. Only the Rockies had a worse relief group this year. Toronto subsequently moved on from Jordan Romano, Génesis Cabrera and Dillon Tate. They’re in agreement to bring Yimi García back on a two-year free agent deal, but they could use as many as four or five relief acquisitions this winter.
Sandlin has a little less than four years of MLB service. He’s entering his second of four arbitration seasons after qualifying early as a Super Two player. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects him for a $1.6MM salary next year. He should remain affordable over his three years of club control.
The biggest appeal for Cleveland is offloading the expensive portion of Giménez’s contract. Horwitz, 27, provides them with an upper level depth infielder. The lefty-hitting Horwitz has shown offensive promise both in Triple-A and the big leagues. He turned in an impressive .265/.357/.433 batting line over 381 plate appearances this year. Horwitz picked up 12 homers and 19 doubles while showing excellent strike zone awareness. He walked at an 11% clip while striking out 18.4% of the time.
Horwitz has a stellar minor league track record. He’s a career .316/.433/.471 hitter with nearly as many walks as strikeouts in 208 Triple-A games. He clearly has offensive ability, but he’s yet to get a full MLB run because of a lack of defensive value. Horwitz has been a first baseman for most of his minor league career. His 5’10” frame and hit-over-power approach are rare at that position. The Jays used him as part of their second base mix as well, but teams don’t seem to view him as an everyday player there.
The lack of defensive flexibility made Horwitz a tough fit on a team with Vladimir Guerrero Jr. He’s similarly squeezed in Cleveland. Josh Naylor would be the first baseman if he’s not traded. Kyle Manzardo could take over even if the Guardians move Naylor. Horwitz still has a minor league option, so he could go back to Triple-A, but he has nothing left to prove there offensively. It’d be a surprise if a Cleveland team that emphasizes infield defense is willing to use him as their regular second baseman. Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet tweets that Horwitz might end up being flipped to a third team.
In any case, the Guardians will need to find a new second baseman. Juan Brito is on the 40-man roster and hit .256/.365/.443 during his age-22 season in Triple-A. He’s a potential regular, though there’d be risk for Cleveland in relying on a player who has yet to make his MLB debut. The Guards could pursue a stopgap via free agency or trade if they want to add some stability coming off a division title. Over the longer term, the move opens second base for this year’s first overall pick Travis Bazzana. The Oregon State product profiles as a quick-moving second baseman who could get to the majors by the end of next season if all goes well.
Mitchell, a 21-year-old outfielder, rounds out the return. Toronto just drafted the Indiana product in the fourth round. A left-handed batter, Mitchell hit .289/.350/.467 in 22 games as a college draftee in Low-A. Baseball America wrote in its draft report that Mitchell had good contact skills and above-average speed that gave him a shot to stick in center field. He probably projects as a fourth or fifth outfielder.
Jeff Passan of ESPN first reported the Jays and Guardians were finalizing a Giménez deal. Kiley McDaniel of ESPN was first with Horwitz’s inclusion. Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic had Sandlin going to the Jays, while Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet was first to report the full trade and the absence of cash considerations.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Fenway 1
???
In nurse follars
Bazzana changed the future for cleveland.
Superstar Prospect Wander Javier
He probably isn’t a factor until 2026 though. Weird to get rid of Gimenez now leaving both middle infield positions up in the air for next season
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Just saw that Cleveland has interest in Nico Hoerner now.
thegreatgoodbye
Hoerner and Bellinger for Lane Thomas and Josh Naylor
Pete'sView
I wonder if they’d want Bellinger in the same deal too?
In nurse follars
Brito is next in line
ellisd19830
Big fan of brito. I remember everyone thinking I was dumb when jones was playing well and clev got robbed. I held my ground that I’d still take Cleveland end, not even a question.
letsgooakland123
@Wander Javier
I think they targeted Horwitz as the Gimenez replacement, only shortstop is open.
Cleveland’s one of those teams with really good scouting dept so if they like what they see you can’t say it’s a bad trade for them.
Ashleyr
Horwitz .265 average, 12 homeruns, 40 RBI’s in his rookie season and the Jays needed offense. As usual, Atkins got fleeced yet again and what will he do next, Trade Guerrero for another player that is a bench piece?
Bobcastelliniscat
I am glad you held your ground. You are well known for your baseball knowledge and accurment.
Rsox
Are the Cubs paying 95% of Bellinger’s salary? Because that’s the only way Cleveland makes that deal
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
F no to Lame Thomas. And cubs don’t need a 1B. Give me Shane Bieber and Emmanuel Clase plus Cash for Nico Hoerner and Miles Mastrobuoni lmao
hockeyjohn
Please don’t drink and propose trades Logjammer.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Haven’t had a drink since September. Not quitting I just don’t drink that much. I haven’t even smoked weed yet today.
It was clearly a joke though.
solaris602
Believe you me – there is no way on God’s green earth CLE is taking on Bellinger’s contract.
Pete'sView
Now that the trade has been fleshed out I see exactly why Cleveland made the deal. Still think it’s pretty even. Both teams get what they need (Jays get more defense and speed/Guardians get more thump.)
Chrome 8550
This trade has made this guardians fan numb. There has to be more the guardians front office is working on. I know guardians fan forums are po about the trade. Even though 90 per cent don’t know their butt from a hole in the ground about baseball and farmsystem.
ryrockak
As a Cubs fan, no thanks to Lane Thomas. He would just block Caissie or Alcantara unless they are traded for a SP
debubba
They may try him there until bazana is ready. Brito has the bat but has no position. I wonder if they may try arias there instead?
FartJesus
@ellis. I saw a lot of the opposite comments. Trashing Colorado for trading Brito for Jones, since Brito has done nothing but produce since the jump.
NYG4246
Accurment.
debubba
Well-below average fielding. It will be hard to find him a spot on the diamond that won’t hurt the team.
waittilnextyear
The only way Bellinger lands in Cleveland is a layover on his way to New York
YourDreamGM
Gimenez doesn’t hit the ball hard. He had a lucky season so to control his salary and in case or maybe even they projected him to mature they locked him up while they could. Understandable but didn’t plan out. This is a salary dump. Avoid risk.
Now they have other options. He never matured. Once his speed goes he’s toast well at least for those 23m years although way salaries are going they might be ok but not for Cleveland.
debubba
Terrible chase rate and strike zone command, but he is a magician when he’s on the diamond!
roob
I don’t know what they’re getting back but I love it for Cleveland. They’re loaded with young infield talent so he’s replaceable for them.
roob
Getting back Horowitz makes sense. He’s a blocked first baseman. Now, they can trade Naylor and save more money.
Then, they can sign some pitching.
yukz
He’ll be on an even worst place in CLE… They have also Manzardo and Noel as other 1B. On the other hand, the only other 1B that TOR has is Vladdy, who might end up getting traded at some point of the season / or become a FA soon
Rsox
Not really. Noel in RF and Thomas in CF with Manzardo and Horwitz 1B/DH
debubba
Noel will not be long for the majors. The chase rate will allow him to exit very quickly.
FartJesus
Jhonk is Franmil Reyes repeated.
Rsox
If you can get 35-40 bombs out of him is that a bad thing?
FartJesus
@rsox sorry, I was thinking cubs or last year in Cleveland franmil, not the good one.
debubba
If he carries a .200 BA, limited walking ability and 250 k’s, yes.
JackStrawb
2021-2024:
Giminez + Rosario = 22.7 bWAR for $32m
Lindor = 21.5 bWAR for $125m
As for the next 6 seasons, Giminez ages 26 to 31 is what, 90% to outperform Lindor, ages 31 to 36, and for half the price.
Nice “splash” Steve. Bet the Soto splash is about the same in effect.
ThatsIT?
Your 2026 starting short stop jays fans
tigers182
Finally a trade
Diggydugler
But why?
Canuckleball
We don’t have enough glove first players yet.
YourDreamGM
Cleveland wants out of this contract. His value depends on his speed. They don’t want to bet on it at 23m a year. Toronto does apparently. And 23m in Toronto isn’t the same as Cleveland.
debubba
Right. They have kids waiting in the wings and this just freed up cap space to look at bolstering the offense or starting pitching.
scissormetimbers
Desperation from Atkins. I’m sure it’s a major overpay
bullred
Gimenez is like Ozzie Smith lite. Ozzie is a light hitting defensive wizard in the HOF. Gimenez actually has more War than Smith had in the first 5 years years of his career so maybe he can make the hall as well.
MysteryWhiteBoy
cause you can never have enough light hitting middle infielders, Jays are probably sending Ernie clement and a prospect
scissormetimbers
Lol Atkins doesn’t win trades. He’s probably sending Bowden Francis and Ricky Tiedmann
shane
He “won” the Kikuchi trade you could argue
weekapaug09 2
Two fringe top 100 guys for half a season of Kikuchi is definitely a win in my book.
Costanza1321
Bowden Francis was acquired in a trade.
jimmertee
@Scissor, Atkins has won a few trades but lost more. He won the Teoscar deal from Houston, the Kikuchi trade, Matt Chapman from the A’s, and a few other break even or fringe wins.
machumizer
Nice, hes been there 10 years and finally got a trade win last season
Diggydugler
I would rather have Ernie and use the funds to sign a bat. I mean Jays are going to be bad either way which is why its not the time for big trades for glove first guys.
deweybelongsinthehall
Gotta trust the Guardians. Not like the Rays but they are typically shrewd.
its_happening
Because the Jays want as many 2B as possible, and this franchise refuses to address the positions they need to fill. Every single year.
metsin4
I’m sure it will really suck to have a young 4+ WAR second baseman.
machumizer
Yeah the Jays should be stoked that they traded assets to acquire a glove first second baseman who’s owed 97 million the next 5 seasons and couldn’t even hit for power last season in Cleveland when the place was a launching pad for lefty hitters bcuz of preseason renovations.
Dustyslambchops23
Ernie Clement was a 4 win player for the jays last year, does pretty much everything Gimenez can do and only will make 2.2 next year.
No one is saying Gimenez is a bad player, this is just a pointless trade for the jays because his value is mostly glove and that’s not the Jays need.
Seamaholic
Money. Cleveland can now shift those dollars around to other stuff, and they need offense desperately.
Samuel
Diggydugler;
Actually, Andrés Giménez is a fine SS.
The Jays are either going to lose Bo Bichette to free agency or trade him. When he goes Giménez takes over SS.
FartJesus
That’s my thinking. Gimenez as 2b until midseason, they trade Bichette and shift Gimenez. Jays aren’t competing anyway. Barger to 2b.
davidk1979
We won the Lindor trade from day one but this confirmed it
rct
Eh, won/lost is overblown for this one. On paper, sure, the Guardians “won” the trade. But the Mets are very happy with how the trade worked out.
Miken31
rct:
How could you possibly agree with that comment? The Mets by far got the best player in that trade. A borderline MVP candidate last season. The Guardians walked away with four scrubs.
rct
You calling them “four scrubs” means you don’t know what you’re talking about. Gimenez has generated 17.6 WAR for Cleveland. Rosario generated 5.9. That’s 23.5 WAR plus whatever return they’ve now received for Gimenez. Lindor 21.5 WAR for the Mets.
So “on paper”, Cleveland “won” the deal. But the Mets love what they’ve gotten out of it.
Tigers3232
@rct Needimg two roster spots and occupying two positions to get another gain of under 10% WAR I would not call a definitive win. But CLE wasn’t going to pay Lindor so I’d say both teams won in that trade.
Miken31
rct:
Give me a break. Giminez has had an OPS of .712 or less in three of the four seasons that he’s been with Cleveland including two seasons with OPS under .700. He is not a good offensive player plain and simple. Rosario was no better and they couldn’t wait to get rid of him.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
CLE got 2 other players Isaiah Greene and Josh Wolf in that trade
Miken31
And those two guys haven’t amounted to anything
Ma4170
Yeah mets clearly won that imo. Gimenez had one very good year in 2022 and then basically a utility player since. Lindor has been an mvp candidate the last three years. WAR loves his D but im sorry, that and his below avg bat is not impacting wins and losses like lindor has 2022-24
Bucket Number Six
You have to look at it two different ways.
Guards are up 22.7 – 2.1 ( counting the Thor trade, too) as they were never going to extend Lindor.
Bucket Number Six
….plus they have Horowitz and whatever minor leaguers coming up.
Mets are down 20.5 – 24.3 so far. But whatever Gimenez does the next couple of years plus whatever Horowitz does the next five seasons counts against them. Whatever Frankie does the rest of the time with the Mets has to make up what they could have gotten for Andres and Spencer before they hit 6.000 in service time.
Bucket Number Six
My bad, take Horowitz out of the comparison for the Mets.
Dustyslambchops23
You can’t look at WAR in a trade straight up. More value in one position is more valuable.
So if you want to do WAR straight up to analyze the Trade you have to also include the value of the players who stepped in to those vacancies
Bucket Number Six
And if you prefer fWAR, that would close the gap for the Mets, but I’ll let someone else have fun with the math.
Bucket Number Six
Right, this is just in a vacuum for the trade tree. But be my guest and figure that out for us, I need a nap!
Ma4170
Though ill say from the Met perspective they’re thrilled w what Lindor has produced and they also got a noticeable team leader which has value the numbers wont measure
MrMet1979 2
Is it wasn’t for Ohtani Lindor would’ve been the NL MVP last season. He carried us down the stretch.
LongTimeFan1
@MrMet,
Lindor’s also on Cooperstown pace.
I hated to lose Gimenez in that trade but I eventually adapted. I think Cleveland made the mistake of extending him far too soon. Should have let him prove himself as all around player far longer.
I think he’ll rebound with the Jays having to prove himself at the plate with a new team.
FartJesus
@rct you are looking at lindor post contract. You should only be looking at whatever club control
Cleveland had at the time. He was paid $22 mil for 3 WAR then got his contract. Which makes Cleveland look even better in this trade.
Tigers3232
@YaGotta One of them was in Rookie league in 2024 the other in high A. They were drafted in 2019 and 2020. Despite that neither played well in those lower rungs of Minors.
Tigers3232
@Bucket LMAO you are really trying to subtract Lindor’s WAR from equation here?? We don’t know if he would ve signed with Mets had he not first experienced being a member of the organization.
Trying to manipulative assessing the trade in that fashion is absolutely laughable.
Tigers3232
@Dusty You are absolutely correct. With a finite # of positions played and roster spots, that absolutely has to be factored in.
WAR alone really doesn’t work for analyzing trades. Maybe if an equal # of players were traded on both sides with equal controllable yrs. Some trades are players that a team knows they won’t have room for on roster whereas the other team will. Comparing WAR in that case doesn’t factor in those players were going to be outrighted or exposed to Rule 5 if they weren’t traded.
Tigers3232
#FartJesus We have no idea if Lindor would ve chose Mets had he hit free agency. We do know he chose to stay with them after experiencing being a member of franchise. So any WAR provided after trade is relevant as it is part of what we know with certainty.
Bucket Number Six
Yes, from Cleveland’s point of view, they should not care about Lindor’s performance after 2021 because he likely would not have been re-signed due to payroll constraints. They have done fine making the postseason twice since then.
The Mets have done fine as well with a couple postseason appearances. The main comparison here from their POV could just be Lindor through the length of his extension to Gimenez through 2026, his initial control period.
As of now, this trade should be categorized a win-win for both sides.
Miken31
Davidk1979:
Uhhhhhh what? The Mets clearly won that trade. Francisco Lindor was a borderline MVP candidate this season and he has been a terrific Met overall. The guys the Guardians got in the deal are all scrubs. I’m confused how you could possibly think the guardians won that trade. Please tell me I’m just missing the sarcasm here.
jdgoat
I’m assuming David is talking about the Mets
Miken31
Thank you so much for the clarification. I knew I was missing something. My stupidity. When he said we I assumed he was talking from a Guardians standpoint, but clearly I missed it. The next guy who posted responded in the same way so I thought he meant Guardians. Makes so much more sense now. I apologize to the original poster lol
icantstandyous
Lindor sucks. Took him 4 seasons to do something
Tigers3232
@icant Lindor has had 5.6 WAR or higher the last 3 seasons. He’s been “doing something” most of the time with Mets
Miken31
Icantstandyous:
A moronic statement. Go look at the numbers. His first season wasn’t good. His last three seasons have been very good to excellent, getting better each year.
MrMet1979 2
He’s had 1 mediocre season and three great seasons playing gold glove defense in Queens on a nightly basis. Wtf are you talking about?
revolver
He just laid out the literal facts. Indians won the trade. You can’t argue facts…..unless of course you’re a trump supporter. In which case why am I even talking to you?
Miken31
Revolver:
You should probably put one of those in your mouth. You’re too stupid to live. What are you even talking about?
Miken31
Davidk1979:
If you were referring to the Mets, I misunderstood and thought you were talking about the guardians. My apologies if I misunderstood.
debubba
Actually, the trade is not won/lost until the players have run their course. The tree is still growing!
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
Wow, Gimenez is such an underated player. I wonder what the haul was
Miken31
Jimenez is an underrated player? A good defender who is not a good hitter. I don’t see where he’s underrated.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
@Miken31 his hitting is better than what these advance stats say
Miken31
I see since he’s left the Mets one excellent offensive season and three mediocre to poor ones since he’s left.
El Kabong
If Cleveland had imagination and wanted to win, they would have kept and paid Lindor.
Samuel
Dumb comment.
Lindor’s contract would have eaten up 1/3’rd of the payroll, and he’s a spotlight hog that would have weaseled his way to a large market team in free agency anyway.
El Kabong
It’s a dumb comment because I thought a team should have hung onto their homegrown star? It’s dumber when people excuse owners who refuse to field a decent team. The Guardians were in the playoff mix during Francona’s final season and rewarded him and their fans by doing nothing at the trade deadline.
Spotlight hog? That’s not even worth a reply.
Led Hoyer
Big contract for a glove first second baseman. I bet it’s not that great but who knows.
bestone
Who?
metsin4
Don’t get on a baseball site if you are that clueless.
bestone
The response was supposed to be who for…?
I.e. who in return…
metsin4
Then I apologize.
bestone
Thanks…have a nice day eh.
Roguesaw2
“Who’s on first?”
One of baseballs oldest questions.
Jon M
Andrés Gimenez
PTkirk
WHAT
Assdribble_Cabrera
How?
HalosHeavenJJ
Why?
(and that one is legit)
stymeedone
Because!
tikiagedola
He is gonna be pissed to have to go to Toronto.
For Love of the Game
I hope his contract specifies $US!
Canuckleball
All contracts are paid in USD
ThatsIT?
How do casuals not know this yet
iains 2
Yup, contracts are with MLB, not the team, which is why they can trade contract and why it’s always USD
30 Parks
Cleveland to Toronto, in terms of cities, is a big win for AG.
metsin4
Moving out of the USA is never a win.
Bobcastelliniscat
Bet you’ve never been outside the U.S.
yeasties
Bet you’ve never been to Cleveland
metsin4
I bet I’ve been all over the world. Spent a month in Europe this summer. Lived in Japan for a year. Lived hours from the Canadian border and went many of times. Going to Columbia in a month. It’s great to visit places but nothing is close to the USA and most of the world would come here in a heart beat.
Dustyslambchops23
Wow 3 whole other countries you’re so worldly metsin4. How do you have time between travels to pretend to know so much about baseball?
Toronto is a first class city and easily a top 10 city in North American.
metsin4
Europe is a continent you moron. Did Canada not teach you geography. I’ve been to a lot more then 3 countries.
Dustyslambchops23
Congrats to you! If only you put those life experiences to use. You sound like the type to visit Italy and Japan and look for a burger.
I have no intention of putting down the fine people of the US just to insult you, you’re a clown and a prime example of an ignorant world view.
JoeBrady
I’ve been to TO maybe 7-8 times. Most cities are what you make of it, but I wasn’t that impressed. I prefer NY, London and Singapore by a wide margin.
Dustyslambchops23
You just listed 3 of the best cities in the world. If you have to use them as examples of cities better than Toronto that’s a good indication of how great Toronto is.
GooseGoslinGuy
You are embarrassing yourself with this “my travel package is bigger than yours” stuff. A Mets fan, of course.
metsin4
What are you talking about? The guy said I’ve never been out of the country. How about not responding a week later with stupid remarks. You’re embarrassing yourself.
C-Daddy
Are you really suggesting Cleveland is a better place to live and play than a world class city like Toronto?
bullred
Most players are world travellers and are fine playing in other countries. Half the players including Gimenez are from other countries. It’s only the ‘Murica players that have a problem with it.
metsin4
No they all really want to play in the US. It’s pretty much what they are all playing for.
King Floch
Toronto bailing Cleveland out on that mistake of an extension, what a neighborly thing to do.
Maybe the stereotype about Canadians being unusually nice is true.
Ragnarok
Shatkins lining up some assistant GM jobs for the Guards when Toronto finally cans them!
Fgh
Wow
BetterMuppet:JUDGEorKERMIT?
Does it include Jose Ramirez?
metsin4
No but it included Vladdy.
Samuel
You sure know a lot about MLB!
This one belongs to the Reds
At least we know where but not how.
johncoltrane
the blue jays dropped out of the race for soto bec they knew they were gonna acquire andres gimenez
Lindor's Bodyguard
Your best post ever. Keep em coming.
bluejaymatt 2
Atkins is a moron
metsin4
Because he just traded for a young 4+ WAR second baseman that’s signed long term?
Canuckleball
Because he traded for a young 4+ WAR second baseman who generates virtually all of that value with his glove, while the one thing the Jays need from their position players is offense.
metsin4
The only option on the market was Gleybar Torres. This is a much better option.
bluejaymatt 2
Exactly – I just watched 324 games of defense-only baseball and it is frustrating, losing and boring baseball. I do not want to watch another 162 but that’s what Ross Atkins is trying to force down my throat.
This was Atkins’ last chance offseason and he’s started with a massive and obvious mistake, one that will cause issues for the next GM who has to come in and clean up the mess that Atkins has made over the last decade. It’s a moronic move that makes me think that the person who made it is, in fact, a moron.
bullred
metsin4
That’s true!
Tigers3232
@mets Iglesias played above avg 2B last season and can play all over IF. Generated 3.1 WAR and safe to assume won’t take the roughly $100M guaranteed that Giminez comes with. Also would not have to give up any talent if they would ve went after and signed Iglesias.
Aside from him I don’t see much to be excited about available in FA at the moment.
Lindor's Bodyguard
*Shatkins
bhd360
I swear Ross Atkins only has friends in Cleveland’s front office. So many former Cleveland players and staff since they got here
Michael Chaney
I’m sure he and Shapiro still have good relationships with Cleveland’s front office after all the time they spent there
showmebb
The Jays are like the As in that they need to make trades or overpay free agents to get players to go there.
Best Screenname Ever
Huge if true.
BITA
4 win player with 6 years of team control. Really curious what the Jays had to give up to get him.
SgtGrumbles
And all that value is with the glove! Bro can really pick it!
Best Screenname Ever
Atkins is confident they can win a lot of 0 to -2 games.
jdgoat
I have no problem with glove first players, some like Gimenez and Varsho are incredibly valuable. The issue is that a team of all glove first players can’t win 0-0
bullred
Atkins better get some pop. If he gets Santander it will help.
MysteryWhiteBoy
Maybe the Guardians will take Springer if the Jays eat some of the contract
Lindor's Bodyguard
Like 110% some of the contract?
shane253
As a Mariners fan, I thought our ownership was cheap.
Lindor's Bodyguard
I feel like I already see Castillo in a Mets uniform.
gvnbuist
We all have a guy like Ross Atkins in our fantasy leagues….
Ashleyr
So, let me see, who would the Jays trade for a .252 average, 9 home runs, 43 RBIs, a .684 OPS, and 30 stolen bases? Please explain how he is ANY better than the players the Jays already have. As usual, Atkins probably just traded away Horwitz, Clement, Schneider, and Tiedemann for a player who is NO better than Horwitz on his own but of course, throws players away to star on other teams. 2nd base wasn’t the issue, any of ten players could cover it. The Jays needed a left fielder, DH, give third to Clement, and then rebuild the bullpen. Any clown can see that, so what does Atkins concentrate on. 2nd base. Is he even aware of the Blue Jays or is he playing a computer game? lol
MysteryWhiteBoy
he would have been third on the team last year in bwar, and he has a 7.4 war season on his resume already, he’s 25 and is signed for 5 more years.
Hopefully that answered your question
Pete'sView
Maybe he has plans to use Gimenez at SS and move Bo to second. Or trade Bo.
pete toms
Agree. Either this season or next I see gimenez at ss. His bat will play better there. Is there a market for Bo? Giants got Adames, mookie going back to short. Are braves ok with Arica?
Cave
Nice call saying he was trading Horwitz.
bigdaddyt
I mean he named 4 of the most obvious trade candidates on the team
stymeedone
Just because he addressed 2B first, doesn’t mean he isn’t concentrating on other positions of need. Past history may be suspect, but there’s hope.
BITA
Looking at Jiminez and his contract it appears he’s well paid. Still a good player but he’s owed a lot of money.
MysteryWhiteBoy
keep him for 2 years and trade him when his contract gets into the 20 million range
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I didn’t realize Gimenez signed an extension. Why are they trading so soon into the deal?
Really curious who else is involved in this trade.
This one belongs to the Reds
Probably more like Toronto coming after him than Cleveland looking to deal him, considering he signed an extension.
jimmertee
To Answer your question about why, Cleveland is getting rid of the money for a player they thought was better and they probably fleeced the jays.
The McNasty1
Slap hitter, no power. This trade makes no sense for the BJ’s.
Best Screenname Ever
No, but it makes a lot of sense because it’s the Blue Jays.
Dorn’s Contract
I hate this trade and I don’t even know who we got in return. I know it’s just to shed contract and open up 2b for Bazzana as well. But I’d rather see them move Andre’s back to SS. I hope we get pitching. Now Arias has a spot to keep warm for Bazzana so we don’t waive him for nothing. Andres glove is Robbie Alomar good. He keeps the pitching staffs era down on his own.
Dorn’s Contract
This trade sucks.
machurucuto
Great move by the Jays. Giménez is a very good player
Pete'sView
Depends on who is going to Cleveland.
Damaso'sBurntJersey
We gave up virtually nothing other than long-term financial risk and an outside shot in Mitchell. Only attention-craving basement-dwellers like Jimmertee hate this trade.
Sk8
This could have the potential to be a sneaky good move for the Jays.
ChangedName
Weird trade, makes the Guardians look cheap so soon after signing him to an extension and makes the Jays look clueless because they badly need a jolt to their line-up.
28rings
this might be a setup to a bigger move – Jays are very high on Will Wagner I think Gimenez could be getting flipped with Vlad for a prospect haul… or it could be the end of the Bo Bichette era in Toronto
Diggydugler
He makes a lot of money so its not good for the Jays. I imagine Atkins now trades Bo for scraps.
jdgoat
Hoping we’re getting one of Cleveland’s stud relievers as well. The contract really makes Gimenez’s value pretty cloudy.
Skell 2
Does anyone know what Ross Atkins is doing? I certainly don’t
Diggydugler
No one has known for 8 years
Dumpster Divin Theo
You will diet of Atkins and you will enjoy it!
1999 MLB All Star MVP
Lol. Rumor has it that the Red Sox were interested in Andres Gimenez!
Roughed Odor
I don’t mind it. I need to see what they gave up though.
TennVol
Gimenez could be the Jays new SS.
Samuel
Correct.
CGG12
The financial details haven’t been updated yet.
But does getting out of this contract mean that Cleveland will hold onto J.Naylor heading into 2025?
NoSaint
83 wRC+ this year, 96 last year. This guy is all glove. We have finally reunited him with his people.
holecamels35
Hilarious for both sides. Guardians trading an extended player after one bad year when they almost made the WS. Jays trading for a locked up, bat first player when their team is getting worse each season. I kinda get why Cleveland did it but they sure as hell better re-invest. Would be like the Pirates or Reds trading Reynolds or Hunter Greene.
tomyo10
Salary dump for Cleveland. Naylor is next. They won’t be getting much from their almost non-existing TV contract. And you know Dolan will not lose any more profits.
Catch tha Taste
Just what the Jays need, another glove guy with a below average bat.
positively_broad_st
Dude is owed nearly $100M over the next five years. We can’t be surprised that Cleveland bailed on this contract. Gimenez is a nice player, but he’s not a $20M per season player, no matter how good his defense is…
Moonlight Graham
If Gimenez can bounce back, this would be a great move.
YourDreamGM
Nothing to bounce back to. Same player he has always been.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Nick Sandlin and Spencer Horwitz going to the Spiders
Nevermind. Whoever tweeted this messed up
It was Ken Rosenthal that said this.
Franx
Nick is going to the Jays, Ken was close
Bluejay4life
Well that’s nice. Trade the only other hitter you had for another guy that can catch the ball. It would be nice to have guys that Hit as well.
SgtGrumbles
Maybe they trade Bo now and have Gimenez play SS.
Franx
Spencer Horowitz…. The only guy that took an offensive step in the right direction and you trade him for another glove first second baseman…. You have 20 of those guys! You better get a high end reliever with years of control!
Franx
And we got Nick Sandlin…. Another whatever reliever that gave up 10+ plus long balls in two straight seasons in under 60 innings pitched
Lookat Me
Josh Naylor is next to go….
Big whiffa
Maybe not now
Fost24
Toronto acquiring more players who add to their strengths while giving up the 2nd best player that neutralizes thier weakness. Add defense, subtract offense. Makes zero sense.
Fost24
Well Sandlin makes it a little sweeter but he’s just replacing the loss from Romano.
Franx
I would have been less upset if they traded will Wagner. However Toronto does not like guys that are limited to one position unless they do that position very well
Diggydugler
uh.. he replaces Genesis or some other low leverage guy.
Fost24
I’m not saying in terms of replacing as closer, low leverage/high leverage, but since you mentioned it, it seems they are content to use Green as closer next season. Closer role is so volatile, that it’s super unpredictable unless you have a Clase, D Williams type of player. So yes, he replaces a loss from the bullpen. And he’s pretty damn good bullpen arm. Chill out.
HalosHeavenJJ
This seems like a really nice deal for Cleveland. That’s a nice bat to add to the lineup and he could cover first if Naylor is dealt.
jdgoat
Horwitz showed too much offensive upside for Toronto
Murphy NFLD
Once I seen Gimenez contact I assumed it was a contract for contract type trade with he and Springer being the main pieces. I figured if it’s not that they the Jays better be acquiring prospect capital in the deal and that it could be a precursor to a Bichette trade. All the details aren’t in yet but for them to trade Horowitz who is a good LHH, sure he doesn’t have 30 HR power but he walks a ton and makes alot of contact. I know 1b is taken but he played 2b well enough this past year. Color me confused
johncoltrane
excellent deal for cleveland.
they dont like to spend so they get rid of gimenez 100mil contract
acquire horwitz who can play 1B
so now they easily trade naylor and get another valuable piece
this is what small market tms do. cleveland, tampa, KC, tigers, orioles. make crafty moves, & develop guys into winners
bucsfan0004
Horwitz…. better glove than Naylor, better bat than Giminez. Excellent pickup for the Guards
johncoltrane
where do you think naylor will end up?
dbacks, yanks, mets, M’s, brewers,reds could all use a 1B
debubba
I think the FA (Alonzo, walker, etc) need to land first before Naylor gets a sniff…
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Why did CLE give Andres an extension and turn around and get rid of him so soon? Was he supposed to be Roberto Alomar in his prime by now?
Their budget and revenues are that tight? Sounds worse than TB
Plus a few days ago they said they are open to trade Thomas and Josh Taylor (which was expected they would trade)
I realize Josh salary is going up in arbitration – are they afraid about his weight like the concerns about Vladdy Jr?
Curious. Might make more sense if there was a change in GM and/or Manager and they wanted to go in a different direction SMH?
hockeyjohn
First, they thought Gimenez would continue to hit. He has struggled the past two seasons. Second, they ended up with the overall #1 pick in the 2024 draft and drafted a 2B Travis Bazzana who should arrive sometime in 2025.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
should be Naylor
norcalguardiansfan
You kind of answered your own question. Gimenez is not Robbie Alomar.
Naylor is in the last year of his contract, has only had one healthy year in the majors and has weight issues.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Yeah I worded the end part oddly
Looking to trade Naylor makes more sense to me than trading Andes.. I didn’t think Gimenez 2024 was so bad even for the $. I didn’t see hardly any CLE except highlights so NO eye test to make a judgement
Samuel
YaGottaBelieveAgain;
Come on….
The Rays do this sort of thing all the time. And 4 out of 5 years their team competes.
Old York
Jays taking the saying Pitching and Defense win games, a bit too literal.
Diggydugler
They also dont have the pitching.
rmullig2
Solid deal for the Jays. Gimenez at 15M is a bit too high but in the current market that will likely be the norm for his skill set in a couple of years. It also gives them a solution if Bo is traded or leaves as a FA.
Diggydugler
He makes $23.5M in 2027, 2028 and 2029….
Ragnarok
Cleveland with a big w here. Too much money for Gimenez coming off his unsustainable offensive season
Dustyslambchops23
Atkins’ ability to put the puzzle pieces together is awful lol.
Good player but doesn’t fit the needs of the team at all.
They look at their models through a transaction lens, not a team fit lens. It’s the same decision making that had Kiermaier in center the last 2 years instead of Varsho.
How many 7-9 hitters can one team have ?
Armaments216
Now that Gimenez’ salary has been offloaded, does Cleveland now hang on to Naylor and Thomas?
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
I like that Cleveland is getting a big league ready player in horwitz back
MM.MM
Interesting..so where will Will Wagner play, into this puzzling debacle?!
Dustyslambchops23
You know what’s better than Ernie Clement, Ernie Clement that costs 100mm.
Honestly fire Atkins in to the sun
Franx
Nah, don’t think Giminez can play third, so Ernie has em there!
debubba
Not very knowledgeable about the Jays lineup. Would they move Gimenez to SS and Bo to third?
Franx
spelling mistake can’t* was the keyword
Tom the ray fan
Who did they trade him for? Horwitz. Oh yeah, the Jewish guy from Radfid
TOGuy73
Most are missing the longer term meaning of the trade for the Blue Jays.. This trade effectively ends any chance of a Bo Bichette long term extension in Toronto. Only way you are trading for the $95 million Gimenez is owed with the last two offensive seasons he put up is if you value him as a potential glove first SS.
Best guess is they bury Wil Wagner in the minor leagues in ’25 move Clement to a UT role then in ’26 Bichette is gone, Gimenez moves to SS and Wagner/Clement platoon at 2b.
Dustyslambchops23
This may be true but I doubt it was part of the strategy behind this move.
If the plan was to replace Bo in a year with a good defensive but light pop SS, they didn’t need to jump the market, or take on 100mm contract.
Diggydugler
Yes but this makes it even worse.
Golfsucks
Well let’s hear Toronto fans fart all over Atkins for this trade.
The guy wins virtually every trade he pulls off.
Toronto fans whine that there is no chance that anyone(Soto, Ohtani) would ever sign in Toronto and then crap on Atkins when it doesn’t happen.
Toronto fans are awesome but the one’s that comment suck hard!
All this guy does is try to improve the team. It’s players and agents that actually suck for not going to Toronto.
That city is insanely cool!
Franx
He has a 50/50 record on trades. He is better on signing pitchers, but misses virtually on every single batter he has ever attempted to sign outside of springer (by the way the contract is aging terribly). I use to praise Atkins, but he should have been let go after last season and bring a new face to help convince the current core to stay, cause as of right now, we are rebuilding in 2026
TOGuy73
To be fair, the Brandon Belt signing was probably a win, albeit for only one year
Franx
Sure, but again, that was a 60/40 against that working
YourDreamGM
A for Cleveland. 23m doesn’t sound like much except when it takes up 20 percent of your payroll. They got 2b coming so best to avoid risk and get out of this $. I like both players they received but I would give a A just for clearing up the payroll.
Meh for Toronto. I see why they did it. Look at 2b free agents. Didn’t give up anything that valuable to them. Long as he can run he will be worth it. Not putting anyone in the seats though.
Guyerbassist
They’ll never do what it takes to win I’m afraid. I mean my other team is the Rangers and they are a perfect example of how to build a young core and then spend to put over the top and win. Unfortunately Cleveland seems to have left the lecture early and didnt get the memo about spending.
Part of me (delusional part of my brain) thought for half a second “hmmm maybe we got vlad” but then I woke up and realized that would be very bad because they are too cheap to sign a good player unless that player is also delulu (Jose) and is willing to take a huge pay cut to stay
No idea why Bieber would really wanna stay and take less money to be here either honestly. I mean he said he was offered more, and probably by teams with a better chance of going all the way.
YourDreamGM
Saying he was offered more is good pr for him. May be true but it didn’t have the opt out. Maybe he seen how Cleveland brings back pitchers off injury and likes what he seen and trusts them.
No small market has ever spent more than 130m and I believe Cleveland is the one who did it. Pittsburgh never spent over 100m. No idea what they can spend but we know what they are willing to spend.
Diggydugler
For a team that should be doing a scorched earth rebuild, strange to trade a recent draft pick and allocate $97M in future payroll for a middle infield glove.
sacko
Could still scorch everything, trade Bo, Vlad, Gausman, Bassitt, and Springer. We can dream.
Datashark
What stood out here is the listing for Horwitz 1B — I have seen some rumors of Cleveland trading Naylor which I find crazy, but its out there.
waittilnextyear
Naylor and Thomas are next out the door
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Atkins double/tripling down on ‘run prevention.’ Who is next, Myles Straw for the outfield, Austin Hedges behind the plate? Go Ross go!
waittilnextyear
So they come within a few games of the World Series on a bare bones payroll so obviously what you should do next is dump payroll. Dolans a joke
CKinSTL
After such a poor showing at the dish last season, I’m amazed someone took the Gimenez contract. Once the Guardians drafted Bazzana, it was just a matter of time before Gimenez was dealt.
I like this deal for both teams. Gimenez really is an incredible defender and I think his bat is a lot better than he showed last season. Sandlin might end up being a nice pick up too.
Obviously, this deal helps clear a path for Bazzana. I would guess they start the season with Brito or Martinez- both who are guys worth taking an extended look at.
BennyG1919
Wtf is this…fire this front office now… as all the top FAs come off the board they trade their top offensive prospect for a guy with no offense … this is a new low
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hee hee, ho ho, strange things are happening
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Just a Working Theory Don’t Mind Me – Please Go About Your Daily Lives
I think this MLB Winter Meetings might have something to do with the Earths magnetic field changing or humanity moving into the Age of Aquarius
Let’s ask Mr Peabody and Sherman or Rocky and Bullwinkle?
Smarter than AI
Or this is THE TWILIGHT ZONE
Where’s Einstein or Stephen Hawking when you need ’em?
I know I know the Fifth Dimension in a Black Hole somewhere
Shine on You Crazy Diamond
Dumpster Divin Theo
Keep on keepin on
solaris602
As a life long CLE fan, I think I’m gonna puke. They basically turned Gimenez and Sandlin into Luis Ortiz. Somebody in the FO is hooked on some pretty choice crack. As Mr Wonderful would say, “This is a dog. Shoot it, burn it, and just bury it.”
debubba
Think about I this way. They took a light-hitting 2B, who is owed 20 mil, and a reliever who was never in their plans moving forward and got a potential CF prospect and a platoon 1B, who then was traded for a pitcher who costs under a mil and two pitching prospects that have skills that Cleveland can work with. Stocked farm system, added a pitcher and now have money to spend for a RF. Not bad for two hours of work!
smuzqwpdmx
So the Jays trade a good bat with a league minimum salary for essentially a John McDonald who’s going to be making $20M a year the rest of the decade. I like to give Atkins the benefit of the doubt normally, but this seems like an atrocious move that’ll ensure the team can’t compete for the rest of the decade. Only way it can work out is if Gimenez turns into his 2022 self, and there’s no reason to expect that, and certainly not to risk so much on it.
explodet
Thank God. I haven’t been able to say Fire Shapiro for literally weeks.
Fire Shapiro!
Lanidrac
A team like the Blue Jays can handle absorbing that kind of contract (which still isn’t THAT bad of an albatross), but If you’re a small to mid-market team, never pay top dollar for a single year of what seems to be an offensive breakthrough. It might just be a career year instead.
machumizer
Hes basically Earnie Clement, except he’s owed 97$ million the next 5 years. Second baseman who can field but can’t hit aren’t easy enough to find?
maggot
Ross Atkins love defence. lol
97 million for another defensive specialist