Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Theatre

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Theatre. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion

Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:

Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Theatre|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.

There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.

Removing a closed AfD discussion

Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.

Other types of discussions

You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Theatre. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.

Further information

For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:

WikiProject Deletion sorting/Theatre/archive

Purge page cache

watch

Theatre

Andrew Amador

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Biography sourced only by IMDb. Cabayi (talk) 11:38, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Journalism, and California. Cabayi (talk) 11:38, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Nothing here of substance. Nothing on an internet search or anything else. The Imdb sources look like he might have had a very minor "reporter" role. Reporters on TV come and go, but this one doesn't show up anywhere. — Maile (talk) 13:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Radio, Television, and Theatre. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Only linked source is the subject's IMDB page and a quick Google search shows no results of note. Fails GNG. Madeleine961 (talk) 20:01, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised there's as little material as I've found. Amador was indeed the weather presenter at KHJ from 1983 to 1989 (he was dumped in a massive overhaul of the station), he was indeed at KNX, and he apparently indeed had minor VO and acting roles. But I'd expect more SIGCOV, especially in the LA market in that time period, out of the Times and Herald Examiner. I don't have it. Delete. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:15, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hanauer Internationale Amateurtheatertage

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

~~Non-notable festival. Cites one source, which is primary.~~ Withdrawn. Significant coverage has been found, thereby making the subject notable. TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 18:09, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 18:09, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Theatre and Events. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This stub cites no independent sources, let alone any significant coverage. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:38, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The quality of the stub is not relevant. The question is whether the subject is notable. In the first two pages of search results, this source discusses the festival in depth. This source, this source and this source describe the festival in three different years. This source and this source discuss individual performances. It would be surprising if an annual event like this had not attracted any attention. Aymatth2 (talk) 16:14, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for bringing these sources to my attention. I have now cited most of them. TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 02:18, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per Aymatth, plenty of coverage, can be expanded.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Joris

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Artist that doesn't appear notable. Can't find any indication that this person is an important figure in the arts, or played a major role in a significant or well-known work. A search of google and linkedin indicates that the creator of the article is or was an employee of the subject. William Graham ^talk 16:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Artists, and Arts. William Graham ^talk 16:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Theatre and Belgium. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:16, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Entirely promotional gobbledygook. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:39, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I am not finding reliable sources for the claims made in this article. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:39, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. I don’t see anything currently on the page’s list of sources that would suggest significant coverage. This is as close as I could find on a WP: BEFORE search. If you find more, ping me. Bearian (talk) 07:05, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

& (Theatre)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article fails WP:GNG. Some of the references are not reliable. Nxcrypto Message 11:27, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Theatre-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 11:43, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Finland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 11:43, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There are other sources easily found, like this one, or this one, to give a couple of examples from the national Finnish broadcasting corporation, in addition to what's already in the article, after a quick search. /Julle (talk) 03:17, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Theatre III

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Does not pass WP:GNG - sources are all trivial coverage or non-independent. Prod was contested by the article author. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 18:22, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Theatre and Massachusetts. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 18:22, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Nothing but primary sources and namedrops. Fails the GNG, and doesn't come within a country mile of WP:ORG. Fascinating how the deprodding rationale was "see talk," without any discussion actually surfacing on the article's Talk page. Ravenswing 19:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It was in the edit comment of the talk page (see history). It said:

There are a number of other small articles on community theaters in the Boston area, e.g. Arlington Friends of the Drama and The Footlight Club.

Those articles are similar in scope and references to the one being considered. Tmshortt (talk) 01:49, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are many articles about the theater in local newspapers (Lowell Sun and (Acton) Assabet Valley Beacon) (via newspaperarchive.com) from the 1970s, but then the articles dry up. There's very little recent coverage as local papers are shutdown/acquired. Tmshortt (talk) 02:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Promotional article about WP:MILL community theater group. Refs are mostly to their own website or tangential info about their location. No notable people involved. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:21, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, there are no citable (online or otherwise) references for notable people who were involved with the theater, which includes both Alexandra Socha and Chris Evans. Tmshortt (talk) 01:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As far as the WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument you make, those two articles you cite make referenced assertions of notability. There are also references which meet WP:GNG's requirement of significant coverage of the subject, which none of the references in this article come remotely close to meeting. If, indeed, there are reliable sources out there providing such coverage, they must be produced, not merely inferred.
As far as notable people involved with the theater, WP:NOTINHERITED debars notability by association. With that, though, there's a basic principle: if you cannot produce the necessary references, then an article on the subject cannot be sustained. Ravenswing 17:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very weak keep per sources provided. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bolun Shen

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Seems entirely promotional and resume-like Amigao (talk) 01:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Besides being an artist in residence [1], I don't see sourcing we can use. The Ted talk where the photo is from comes up, but that's all. The artist in residence link is primary anyway, so we can't use it. Oaktree b (talk) 01:51, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep There are at least three sources:

https://theinitium.com/zh-hans/article/20150831-mainland-unmarried-mother is an article about his personal life, but contains key biographical details
https://zqb.cyol.com/html/2015-10/21/nw.D110000zgqnb_20151021_1-12.htm is a profile of him from China Youth Daily
https://cn.nytimes.com/culture/20150526/tc26box/ a NYT China profile along with an interview. I understand that interview articles can be controversial but this is from a reputable paper, and the profile information at top is quite substantive and would support much of the article content

Oblivy (talk) 02:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Theatre, Politics, and China. Skynxnex (talk) 03:33, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The formatting of the references is so poorly done that it will require time to clean up before a source analysis can be made. Looks like a refbomb pile-up, and I don't even understand Chinese. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:40, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Leaning towards delete. The lede is purely promotional. There is emphasis placed on the subject's TED (conference)#TEDx talks, which really shouldn't be confused with TED Talks. He has given six TEDx talks in China, one of which was included in the official TED China in 2019. I think this sentence is misleading and I don't think these talks contribute toward notability. There is emphasis placed on the subject's installation Babel Tower, which is a small tower of disused mobile phones displayed in a shopping mall. Most of the references are interviews or calendar listings, or primary sourcing promoting the event. I am hoping someone else will chime in before I tackle source assessment. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 02:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:
People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
Sources
1. Tian, Chenwei 田晨炜 (2015-05-26). "一位迷茫青年记录同代人的千个问题" [A confused young man records thousands of questions of his generation]. The New York Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
  The article notes: "这是+box“回归”全国展的第13场。由26岁的沈博伦发起的视频记录项目+box，用一年半的时间拍摄了全国十个城市1000名年轻人对世界的提问。以这些问题为素材的展览正在全国进行，并将在今年夏天走出中国，前往赫尔辛基艺术节参展。2013年7月，沈博伦24岁，距他离开大学、进入活动策划业仅仅过去一年。在此之前，他走的是一条人人艳羡的道路：生长在上海、北京，考进中国传媒大学，毕业后加入业内顶尖公司，收入可观……一切因素都指向更加美好的生活。但就在这样的路上，他却感到迷茫和无助，他选择停下脚步向自己发问：“这一切的意义究竟是什么？”"
  From Google Translate: "This is the 13th national exhibition of +box’s “return”. The video recording project +box, initiated by 26-year-old Shen Bolun, spent a year and a half filming 1,000 young people in ten cities across the country asking questions about the world. Exhibitions based on these issues are ongoing across the country and will go out of China this summer to participate in the Helsinki Art Festival. In July 2013, Shen Bolun was 24 years old, just one year after he left university and entered the event planning industry. Before that, he followed a path that everyone envied: he grew up in Shanghai and Beijing, was admitted to the Communication University of China, and joined a top company in the industry after graduation, earning a considerable income...all factors pointed to a better life. But on this road, he felt confused and helpless. He chose to stop and ask himself: "What is the meaning of all this?""
2. "Sculpture Made Of Cell Phones Highlights China's E-Waste Problem". Agence France-Presse. 2019-03-31. Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
  The article notes: "A Chinese artist on Saturday unveiled a sculpture made of discarded mobile phones and shaped like a cell tower in a bid to highlight the problem of electronic waste. The phones were rigged to a metal frame and synchronised so their screens would flash in various colours. "The inspiration of my tower comes from the Tower of Babel in the Bible," artist Shen Bolun told AFP, referring to the origin story explaining why people speak different languages."
3. Wu, Jing 吴婧 (2015-08-31). "请你给我十块钱，众筹"未婚生子"罚款" [Please give me ten yuan to crowdfund the fine for "having a baby out of wedlock"] (in Chinese). Initium Media. Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
  The article notes: "在吴霞眼中，沈博伦是一个“只能按自己意愿生活的人”。他成长于上海和北京，后考入中国传媒大学读传播学。毕业后，沈博伦进入一家活动营销公司，“天天都在做我觉得没意思的东西”。2013年，工作一年的沈博伦辞了职，发起一个名为“＋box”的项目：他用一年半的时间走访中国的十个城市，在每个城市采访100个年轻人──如果给你一个机会问全世界同龄人一个问题，你会问什么？沈博伦将收集到的问题剪辑成数个短片，在全国各地展览。《纽约时报》中文网曾以《一位迷茫青年纪录同代人的千个问题》为标题报导他的故事。不久前，他携短片参展了芬兰赫尔辛基艺术节。"
  From Google Translate: "In Wu Xia's eyes, Shen Bolun is a "person who can only live according to his own wishes." He grew up in Shanghai and Beijing, and was admitted to Communication University of China to study communication. After graduation, Shen Bolun entered an event marketing company, "doing things that I find boring every day." In 2013, Shen Bolun resigned after working for a year and launched a project called "+box": he spent a year and a half visiting ten cities in China and interviewed 100 young people in each city──If If you were given a chance to ask your peers around the world a question, what would you ask? Shen Bolun edited the collected issues into several short films and exhibited them across the country. The New York Times Chinese website once reported his story under the title "A confused young man records a thousand questions about his contemporaries". Not long ago, he participated in the Helsinki Art Festival in Finland with his short film."
4. Huang, Fangran 黄昉苨; Xu, Peng 徐芃 (2015-10-21). "跳出盒子的年轻人" [Young people stepping out of the box]. China Youth Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
  The article notes: "扛着摄像机在南京、深圳、北京等10个城市与成百上千个年轻人交流过彼此的人生困惑之后，沈博伦得出了这样的结论：上一代的人可能有了足够的物质，就会对生活感到满足；但现在的年轻人不会，他们要满足的是不断提升的自我意识。"
  From Google Translate: "After carrying a camera and communicating with hundreds of young people in 10 cities including Nanjing, Shenzhen, and Beijing about their life confusions, Shen Bolun came to the conclusion that people of the previous generation may have enough material resources. , they will be satisfied with life; but today's young people will not. What they want to be satisfied with is their ever-increasing self-awareness."
5. Zheng, Yang (2015-11-09). "Born to Choose". Beijing Review. Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
  The article notes: "Apart from the choice to freeze eggs as an option, giving birth out of wedlock holds many other challenges. When Wu Xia and her boyfriend Shen Bolun ended their relationship, she was four months pregnant. Remaining friends, the two decided to raise the baby together. This June, Wu gave birth, but she soon realized that the first challenge of motherhood was a penalty from the government. ... In July, Wu and her ex-boyfriend launched a project on crowd-funding website Dreamore.com, asking people to donate up to 10 yuan ($1.58) to help them pay the penalty. The move immediately created a sensation, but the project was removed from the website 16 hours later. Shen explained that what they want to raise is not money, but public awareness of the difficulty confronting the parents of children born out of wedlock."
6. Chen, Wei 陈薇 (2015-12-02). "【中国新闻周刊】单身的权利" [【China News Weekly】The Rights of Being Single]. China Newsweek (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02 – via Jiemian News.
  The article notes: "沈博伦1989年出生，2012年大学毕业，学的是传播学。一年后，觉得工作没有价值，辞职创办了一个名为“＋box”的项目，想向10个城市的1000个年轻人提出同一个问题：“如果给你一个机会问全世界同龄人一个问题，你会问什么？”"
  From Google Translate: "Shen Bolun was born in 1989 and graduated from university in 2012, majoring in communication. A year later, I felt that my job was worthless, so I resigned and started a project called "+box". I wanted to ask the same question to 1,000 young people in 10 cities: "If you were given a chance to ask a question to your peers around the world, What do you ask?""
7. Qiu, Yuchen 秦雨晨 (2014-04-29). "沈博伦和他的PLUSBOX" [Shen Bolun and his PLUSBOX]. 大学生 [University Student] (in Chinese). ISSN 1672-8165. Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
  The article notes: "大学时候沈博伦学的是传播学。他是个挺活跃的学生，曾经去公关公司实习过一段时间，所以在毕业的时候，他强烈地知道自己一定不要去干公关行业，当时想做活动行业，于是就去了这样一家公司。但是工作一年之后，沈博伦发现这份工作整体和自己的预期差距非常之大，不论是成长环境、工作内容、人际关系还是薪金，都不是自己想要的样子。"
  From Google Translate: "Shen Bolun studied communication in college. He was a very active student and had interned at a public relations company for a period of time. So when he graduated, he knew strongly that he did not want to work in the public relations industry. At that time, he wanted to work in the event industry, so he went to such a company. But after working for a year, Shen Bolun found that the overall gap between this job and his expectations was very large. Whether it was the growth environment, work content, interpersonal relationships, or salary, it was not what he wanted."
8. Additional sources:
  1. Liang, Lu-Hai (2015-07-04). "How one couple is fighting back against China's financial penalties for unmarried parents. Mr Shen and Ms Wu are using media attention to raise money to pay their fine". The Independent. Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
    The article notes: "In China, new parents Shen Bolun and Wu Xia feel bureaucracy is a reasonable price to pay for the freedom to choose how they live. In the face of social and state pressure, Mr Shen and Ms Wu, who last month gave birth to a daughter, have never married and do not intend to. But their decision has had consequences – not least, in their case, a 43,910 RMB (£4,498) “social maintenance fee” levied against them. The couple are now using the ensuing media attention to raise money partly to pay off the fine, and partly to highlight the plight of China’s single parents, and what they consider a de facto enforcement of marriage imposed by the government. “People don’t see another option,” Mr Shen, 26, a filmmaker and artist, said a week before his daughter’s birth. ... Chinese media have contacted him for interviews, providing a rare platform for a discussion about the children of unwed couples and the rights of single women among China’s younger generations."
  2. Shan, Juan (2015-08-11). "Debate grows over reproductive rights". China Daily. Archived from the original on 2024-12-02. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
    The article notes: "Having a Master of Business Administration degree from prestigious Northwestern University in the US state of Illinois, Wu, 32, broke up with boyfriend Shen Bolun, a 26-year-old photographer in Beijing, in February. Wu was 17 weeks' pregnant at the time, and the two decided to welcome their child."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Shen Bolun (Chinese: 沈博伦) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 10:38, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Consensus is leaning towards a keep now, but more input from the community regarding the newly found sources will be greatly appreciated.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 02:43, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Magwayen Creative Scholars' Guild

AfDs for this article:

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG, lack of credible sources. Cites are all blog sources. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 06:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Theatre, Organizations, Schools, and Philippines. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 06:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify - The main problem is sources. There is a chance of better sources being out there. Sushidude21! (talk) 07:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Non-notable student theatre group that apparently produces one show per year, for one weekend. See WP:MILL. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom and Ssilvers. Only a few news articles about this group appeared when I searched the internet, and they were all outdated, going back to 2014 and before. While such news articles exist, they're mostly from PEP.ph and only discuss the events the group held in those years, which I think is insufficient to establish WP:SIGCOV of the group as a whole. AstrooKai (Talk) 19:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AstrooKai, Wikipedia:Notability is not temporary, so "outdated" sources still count. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know, but these sources don't establish notability since they come from one source. No other sources cover the group in detail. AstrooKai (Talk) 23:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to Pamantasan ng Lungsod ng Maynila, of which this organization is a part. The merged material should be very brief – possibly no more than "Magwayen Creative Scholars' Guild is a theatre group on campus" – but enough that future editors won't start an RFD because it's "not mentioned". WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:47, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. --- Tito Pao (talk) 02:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: It's looking like delete. There is a clear consensus to remove the article, but the suggestions to draftify or merge warrant a little more discussion on exactly how to remove this article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 07:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Pamantasan ng Lungsod ng Maynila since this article fails WP:GNG. There isn't any WP:SIGCOV, so a standalone article is not warranted at this time.--DesiMoore (talk) 15:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What is there to merge. Everything is unsourced save for the founder of the school org. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:33, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There's nothing to merge. If we're stating this club's existence with prose in the school article, it'll open a can of worms. Maybe list this as a school org in the school article, and nothing else, not even a redirect. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Brian Ogola

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Procedural nomination per Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 12#Brian Ogola. Article was BLARed in 2019 because it was "too outdated" (according to the editor who redirected it). CycloneYoris ^talk! 07:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Kenya. CycloneYoris ^talk! 07:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe keep. I do think there is a credible claim to his passing WP:NACTOR for multiple notable roles. From looking at his IMDB he actually has some lead roles in content available on Netflix (for example https://nairobiwire.com/2020/10/meet-poacher-actor-brian-ogola.html ). The trouble with African media is the press is often ridiculous in its puffery so finding usable sources is often challenging because many of the newspapers get discredited at AFD for being over the top promotional. Based on his work, I say he passes an SNG, but based on sourcing I don't think we will be able to find WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 07:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and Theatre. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 12:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete May pass SNG, but not GNG or SIGCOV. Link to the East African is broken, ands that could have been significant. African actors usually get less coverage than equally notable international counterparts, so I’m open to changing my mind if someone can provide one independent, reliable source.ANairobian (talk) 06:54, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kaizenify (talk) 09:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - [2], [3], [4], [5] Ayokakesy2023 (talk) 23:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep - lead actor in a soap opera in a moderately large country/market. Bearian (talk) 03:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Nerdy Prudes Must Die

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

A search for sources shows no sources from reliable sources; all sources are from blogs or college newspapers, neither of which are reliable. All development information is primary and thus does not indicate notability of the subject. The only third party source that shows notability is the Billboard sales performance, but this is a single source and only covering sales figures. This subject lacks SIGCOV and doesn't meet the GNG, and is better off redirected or merged as an AtD to Starkid Productions, the parent company which produced this musical. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 23:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Theatre, and Visual arts. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 23:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. While this is not about the cast album but the show itself (whose cast recorded the show), the cast album did make the Billboard national chart making it pass criteria 2 of WP:NALBUM. I also found this additional review [6] Ultimately, the spirit of the WP:NALBUM SNG should apply here. This show charted so we should keep the article.4meter4 (talk) 00:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@4meter4 The review hails from a student-published newspaper, so that one is also unreliable. From a glance at their about page, they don't seem to have a high journalistic standard (Anyone can apply and write for them) so I'm not sure if it's usable at all.

Still, my concern is that the album itself is what's notable here, not the show it's attached to. The show received no coverage, with only the album doing so. Notability for the show is not Wikipedia:INHERITED from the album either: "notability is not inherited "up", from notable subordinate to parent."

If we were to consider the album separate from the show, and make an article solely about the album, that still wouldn't fly: "a standalone article is only appropriate when there is enough material to warrant a reasonably detailed article" and "Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article or discography article, space permitting." Given all that exists for coverage on the album is the Billboard source, there isn't really enough to build a reasonably detailed article beyond a track listing and a line saying that the album ranked #1. No matter what outcome is taken, this subject doesn't have the sourcing to meet independent notability. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 04:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uh no. WP:NALBUM is clear that we keep all albums that place on a national chart regardless of the sourcing. That is the WP:SNG guideline. Period. University newspapers are often used on wikipedia, and are generally considered reliable. They are structured just like newspapers not attached to universities (editorial staff; both student and faculty), have the same legal recognitions under the law as professional journalists, and in this case, are over seen by a nationally recognized school of journalism. There's no reason to question the reliability of the newspaper at Boston University; particularly when its a review of theatre work. Regardless, repurposing this about the album is possible, but maybe not what best serves the encyclopedia. The content would be nearly identical and I don't see the value in differentiating between the two here as cast albums are simply audio recordings of a staged musical. 4meter4 (talk) 04:42, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@4meter4 I'm a bit confused since I was primarily citing music notability policies with my above argument, barring the usage of INHERITED. "...a standalone article is only appropriate when there is enough material to warrant a reasonably detailed article" hails from Wikipedia:NRECORDING, and "Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article or discography article, space permitting" is from NALBUM.

While NRECORDING states that albums charting is an indicator of notability, there's nothing in these notability guidelines that state it's an instant keep. Even ignoring that, my previous argument about an album split-out still stands. There's not enough coverage of the album to be non-stubby and not just a track listing, and the musical itself doesn't inherit notability from the album that charted per INHERITED, as, inherently, the album is a separate subject from the original musical.

It's something akin to (and forgive the oddly specific example, this is the first thing I have off the top of my head) Detective Pikachu (film) and Detective Pikachu (soundtrack), where the soundtrack has individual coverage of its own development, reception, etc; it logically wouldn't include content from the film Detective Pikachu (Such as the film's plot and development) since these two subjects have inherently different coverage and subject matter, and those items from the parent subject would not be relevant to the spin-out and vice versa.

This is entirely an aside here, but is there a specific policy for college newspapers? Last I checked they were generally unreliable since they're typically student-run and edited (Meaning literally anyone can write for them and no one with proper journalistic experience if fact checking.) Perhaps it's different if the editors are entirely faculty with journalistic experience in the field, but given we can't tell what's been edited by a student or faculty member unless they outright say it for some reason, I'm not sure how reliable that would be in the long term. This isn't really me arguing against it and more just me stating my gripes; if this is clarified somewhere else please let me know because I genuinely am not familiar with that policy if it exists. I'm mostly just basing this off how we usually determine reliable sources. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 05:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most university newspapers have an overseeing faculty advisor/editor who works as a part of the editorial team of the paper. That faculty member is always part of the journalism faculty if a school has a journalism school. Sometimes there is more than one faculty advisor, and generally the paper doesn't get published without their approval of each issue. I think you'll find though that universities with respected papers like The Harvard Crimson, The Tufts Daily, The Cornell Daily Sun, etc. are routinely cited across the encyclopedia by just checking the "what links here" section of those articles. You'll see there are tons of articles that wikilink to those pages because they are used as sources on a routine basis. It would be a tough sell to the reliable sources noticeboard to consider a university paper not reliable when it follows the same protocols editorially as a professional newspaper.4meter4 (talk) 06:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@4meter4 as a general question: How can it be guaranteed that they receive editorial oversight from a faculty member? I know some papers often have their digital content overseen by dedicated student editors rather than faculty outright. This is obviously on a case-by-case basis, but in cases like these, how would it be determined if site content is usable? Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 06:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to pursue that further, I suggest asking at the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard and see what they have to say. Best.4meter4 (talk) 06:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comment~~ Weak keep I must agree with 4m4 that the high Billboard ranking gives me pause. Doing my usual source check... Oh hey! Hayley Louise Charlesworth (February 9, 2022). "Nightmare Time and a Case Study for Digital Theatre During the COVID-19 Pandemic". Networking Knowledge: Journal of the MeCCSA Postgraduate Network (Abstract). 15 (1). Manchester Metropolitan University. Retrieved November 18, 2024.

@Darkfrog24: Do you have another link? That one isn't working, and it would be easier for others if it could be accessed here rather than through Google. I did look this up separately to check, but all that's in this journal are brief mentions that this musical got delayed due to COVID. The paper is primarily focusing on Nightmare Time, an unrelated production by StarKid, so I wouldn't really consider this source SIGCOV given Nerdy Prudes' mention here is primarily a TRIVIALMENTION in the context of Nightmare Time. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 20:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nice catch. I have fixed the link in the article. Here is a link to the article itself: [7]. Here is a link to the Google Scholar search: [8]. As always, I'll defer to people who have read the full text. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Darkfrog24 I did read the text, and I've mentioned my findings above. Do you have thoughts on this? I'm not sure trivial mentions in a paper about another series entirely really counts as SIGCOV. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 21:39, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 01:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 02:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]