Wikidata talk:WikiProject LGBT
Queer
[edit]I've run into a problem. Where should we reflect when someone says they're queer, but they don't specify if it's gender or sexual orientation related? Thank you Samthony (talk) 07:15, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Samthony: There is no easy answer to this. "Queer" is not a precise term with a certain meaning. It can many any or all of these -
- This is an important issue both for WikiProject LGBT+ and for the general case of tagging anyone with demographic data.
- We have data, like the list of people in 500 Queer Scientists profile (P8243), which could support claims that all people in that list are "queer". It is not obvious what that means though, and problems arise in other demographic groups if we scale up labeling people.
- Part of the answer is probably talking things through. What options for a best practice do you see here? Bluerasberry (talk) 17:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- This question originated with me. I was doing authority and Wikidata work on an author whose home page says "queer. brown. writer" and whose about page says "She is a proud queer woman." So I wanted to state in her WD item that she is queer, but as shown above, there isn't a clear place to put it. I asked in the WD Telegram group and someone said to use sexual orientation (P91) with value non-heterosexuality (Q339014). Even if that value is correct, which is unclear, it does not record her stated identity as "queer." I wonder if WD needs a new property for "identifies as"? AdamSeattle (talk) 18:09, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- I kind of favor the idea of a less-rigid "identifies as" property here for aspects of identities that people may want publicly attached to their Wikidata items which transcend specific demographic categories we already have such as "LGBTQ+" or "Queer". It has been pointed out by others in a separate email discussion that it would be important to specify that identification was public self-identification at a specific point in time, and I think they were spot-on. As with gender and sexual orientation statements, I think it's important to require references for a property like this because of possible privacy violations, and to clearly direct users not to include deprecated values. I don't like the idea of recording anyone's sexual orientation as "non-heterosexuality" unless that's how they've phrased it--that feels heteronormative to me even if it's not the intention, and as Adam points out it's not the same as "queer". I'd love to see a more specific property suggestion for this! --Crystal Yragui, University of Washington Libraries (talk) 19:01, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- "and to clearly direct users not to include deprecated values."
- Such as? Trade (talk) 09:20, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- I kind of favor the idea of a less-rigid "identifies as" property here for aspects of identities that people may want publicly attached to their Wikidata items which transcend specific demographic categories we already have such as "LGBTQ+" or "Queer". It has been pointed out by others in a separate email discussion that it would be important to specify that identification was public self-identification at a specific point in time, and I think they were spot-on. As with gender and sexual orientation statements, I think it's important to require references for a property like this because of possible privacy violations, and to clearly direct users not to include deprecated values. I don't like the idea of recording anyone's sexual orientation as "non-heterosexuality" unless that's how they've phrased it--that feels heteronormative to me even if it's not the intention, and as Adam points out it's not the same as "queer". I'd love to see a more specific property suggestion for this! --Crystal Yragui, University of Washington Libraries (talk) 19:01, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Good questions. I personally use "queer" to refer both to my sexual orientation and as a synonym for being a part of the LGBTQ community, though my Wikidata entry doesn't reflect this currently (it's referenced in this article if someone wants to edit my entry; I'd rather not do it myself). Funcrunch (talk) 19:43, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Based on @Funcrunch's self-identification disclosure, and in the interest of trying it out in WD, I modified their item and added:
- sexual orientation (P91) --> non-heterosexuality (Q339014), with qualifier: object named as (P1932) --> queer, along with 2 references: reference URL: https://funcrunch.org/, retrieved 1 February 2024 and Wikimedia import URL: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_LGBT#Queer.
- I used non-heterosexuality (Q339014) because it has the definition "sexual orientation other than heterosexual / straight" and the alias "queer". AdamSeattle (talk) 18:42, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks - I'm not sure if referencing this discussion is acceptable for Wikidata purposes, but if it is, a permalink to my statement should probably be used instead. Funcrunch (talk) 20:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Self-identification issues
[edit]This is a complicated topic which might become difficult to discuss by text. I would be interested in discussing it by voice or video, perhaps hosted by Wikimedia LGBT+. I am happy to continue here though for as long as that seems useful to everyone.
One question being asked here is how we do conventional Wikidata editing, where we have a claim and simply want to apply it in the right model. That means "(person) -> (identifies) -> (queer)", and we debate and set quality standards for how we model this.
Much more complex are the other ideas you are raising -
- "it would be important to specify that identification was public self-identification at a specific point in time"
- "it's important to require references for a property like this because of possible privacy violations"
- "clearly direct users not to include deprecated values"
Wikidata is not set up to do any of these things. We can do them, but if anyone wants these processes, then we need some documentation published saying how this should work and acknowledging the weirdness and friction these cause.
I do not have answers but here are some questions to address:
- In what ways does Wikidata treat self-identification versus third-party identification differently?
- We have no capacity for identity verification. What do we do when someone contacts us with self-published self-identification claims, but we cannot verify their identity?
- How do we respond to privacy violation complaints when we have third party verification?
- Wikidata by default keeps deprecated values, and I am unaware of any project precedent of doing things differently. Do we want to accept that default going into this modeling, or is there something to discuss first?
I will give an example: we have the project 500 Queer Scientists (Q94494095) and tag people in that project with 500 Queer Scientists profile (P8243). To what extent is it okay for Wikidata to tag all those people as queer?
Adding a queer identifier to biographies seems significantly more complicated than adding other sorts of claims. I can support advancing this data modeling in a few cases as a pilot, for discussion, with intent to develop the social and ethical issues, but if people have expectations that this identification comes with support services that Wikidata does not offer, then we should talk that through and establish some level of consent before doing this at scale. Bluerasberry (talk) 16:19, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Use of pre-transition images for subjects where no other photo is available
[edit]Is this permissible? Trade (talk) 00:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- Personally, I do not consider using pre-transition images for subjects, unless the concerned person has explicitly decided to share them on their personal blog/websites (for diverse reasons, including creating awareness). John Samuel (talk) 09:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Trade: I say sometimes yes. If we have someone who is a public figure pre-transition, and a private figure after, and we use something other than reliable sources to source the transition, then yes, use the available photo. If instead the person is a public figure post-transition, then do not use the pre-transition photo. The rationale is that Wikimedia projects do not actually investigate to report people's lives, but instead, we report the public record. It is not uncommon for for a person to have a strong pre-transition record and no post-transition public record, and we cannot take on the burden of doing proactive journalism (or any kind of journalism). I am in favor of developing channels for correcting records or removing them by request, but not of setting an expectation that Wikidata should know private things in the absence of reported data.
- Do these cases cover what you have in mind? Bluerasberry (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Help on determining reliability of a source
[edit]Hello, any opinions on this question ? https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Topic:Yenhkex8yikngzpi
Thanks Vache-crapaud (talk) 20:55, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
3rd Edition of LGBTQ+ History Month on Wikimedia Projects
[edit](French version below)
Hi all,
Are you passionate about the history and representation of the LGBTQ+ community? Join us in enriching LGBTQ+ documentation across Wikimedia projects (Wikipedia, Wikidata, Commons, Wikisource…) during the third edition of LGBTQ+ History Month!
Dates : November 1 to 30, 2024
Whether you're a beginner or experienced, there are several ways to contribute:
- Suggest topics: Propose important articles or themes that should be developed.
- Create and improve articles: Help by writing new articles or expanding existing ones to enhance LGBTQ+ visibility and representation.
- Recommend resources: Share books, dissertations, theses, or other relevant documents to enrich research and content.
Your contribution is vital in expanding the diversity of topics represented and in better documenting LGBTQ+ history and experiences.
For more information and to participate, follow this link:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Pride/History_month/2024
Please come and contribute !!
=============================================================
Bonjour,
Vous êtes passionné.e par l'histoire et la représentation de la communauté LGBTQ+ ? Rejoignez-nous pour enrichir la documentation LGBTQ+ sur les projets Wikimédia (Wikipédia, Wikidata, Commons, Wikisource…) dans le cadre de la troisième édition du Mois de l'Histoire LGBTQ+ !
Dates : du 1er au 30 novembre, 2024
Que vous soyez débutant ou expérimenté, il existe plusieurs façons de contribuer :
- Proposer des sujets : Suggérez des articles ou des thèmes importants à développer.
- Créer et améliorer des articles : Participez en rédigeant de nouveaux articles ou en complétant ceux existants pour une meilleure visibilité de l'histoire LGBTQ+.
- Recommander des ressources : Partagez des livres, mémoires, thèses, ou tout autre document pertinent pour enrichir les recherches et les contenus.
Votre contribution est précieuse pour élargir la diversité des sujets représentés et pour mieux documenter l'histoire et les expériences LGBTQ+.
Pour en savoir plus et participer, suivez ce lien : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Pride/History_month/2024/fr
Venez contribuer !! John Samuel (talk) 20:32, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
Looking for help on Intersex advocacy section
[edit]Hello, I created the Intersex healthcare page a few months ago. I currently have a talk page to-do list of things I would like improved for the article. While I've worked on some of it myself, I'd really appreciate if another editor could help add to the "advocacy" section since I'm having trouble with that. Thanks! Urchincrawler (talk) 00:38, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
romantic orientation
[edit]Wikidata:Property proposal/romantic orientation
Finally made this a thing after i discovered the old discussions Trade (talk) 23:37, 2 November 2024 (UTC)