User talk:Apalsola

	English: Welcome to my talk page!	Suomi: Tervetuloa keskustelusivulleni!
	Please write in English or Finnish. I like to keep discussions in one place, so: I will respond on this page to everything left on this page. Either add this page to your watchlist or ask me to notify you of a response on your talk page. If I leave a message on your talk page, I will look there for a response. You do not have to notify me on my talk page. Please post new messages at the bottom of the page. Please sign your messages with four tildes (~~~~).	Ole hyvä ja kirjoita suomeksi tai englanniksi. Haluan pitää keskustelut yhdessä paikassa, joten Vastaan tälle sivulle jätettyihin kommentteihin tällä sivulla. Voit joko lisätä tämän sivun tarkkailusivullesi tai pyytää minua ilmoittamaan keskustelusivullasi, että olen vastannut viestiisi. Jos jätän viestin keskustelusivullesi, seuraan sitä vastausten varalta. Sinun ei tarvitse ilmoittaa vastauksesta keskustelusivullani. Ole hyvä ja kirjoita uudet viestit sivun loppuun. Allekirjoita viestisi neljällä tildellä (~~~~).
	––Apalsola t • c 12:02, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) Kaartinkaupunki (Q1017793)

Hi you added the claim located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) Kaartinkaupunki (Q1017793) to a park in Helsinki. However, P131 is only used for administrative areas. You can use P1134 (P1134) for neighbourhoods or districts. Michiel1972 (talk) 16:13, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the information! I stand corrected. ––Apalsola (talk) 17:12, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, I would have thought that Kaartinkaupunki (Q1017793) is an administrative area. What do you think Apalsola? Danrok (talk) 00:19, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, it depends on what "administrative" actually means. Kaartinkaupunki is a city district or neighbourhood (Finnish: kunnanosa (literally "part of the municipality") or kaupunginosa (literally "part of the city")) of the City of Helsinki. It is administrative in the sense that concept of dividing cities (and municipalities) to districts is set in the law and districts' borders are drawn by the city/municipality councils. However, these borders (and the whole concept of dividing Finnish cities to districts or neighbourhoods) serve mainly for city planning purposes: city districts do not have any administration of their own. So, in that sense the only "administrative" entity is the City of Helsinki. Best regards, ––Apalsola (talk) 00:34, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

I just noticed Property talk:P131 and I think it is pretty clear: P131 should not be used for unincorporated areas such as city/municipality districts of Finland. ––Apalsola (talk) 12:24, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi Apalasola, seems that You misunderstood the discussion on P131. The sense of this property ist to locate the item in a clearly defined area (which is necessary basis for any administrative purposes). It isn't important, if the administrative unit has a real administration, etc. So please don't revert my edits. --Arch2all (talk) 07:10, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

@Arch2all: It seems that the description of P131 has changed since June 2015, so please do not make any assumptions what I have misunderstood.

However, if that is the case, then the P131 for Kallio Church (Q2981697) should actually be Linjat (Q515435). It is a sub-district of Kallio (Q1011613). However, please notice that such orthodox use of P131 leads to problems with Commons:Template:Wikidata Infobox, for example. The template in Commons:Category:Kallio Church now shows "Linjat, Kallio, Finland" as the location, completely omitting the fact that the church is actually located in Helsinki, which is just ridiculous. Of course this can be considered as the problem in the template (it probably would be possible to "dig" the chain of the administrative territorial entities from Wikidata items) and not in the data in Wikidata but this kind of aspects should be considered as well. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 15:28, 20 August 2018 (UTC) –– (grammar fix) Apalsola ^{t • c} 15:29, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

As You said, this is a problem of the template. Technical restrictions of templates or similar front end stuff, shouldn't be the reason for exceptions in the data structure of wikidata. --Arch2all (talk) 17:20, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Wikidataa opettelemaan!

Hei! Olisitko kiinnostunut osallistumaan Wikimedia Suomen järjestämään Wikidataan perehdyttävään projektiin. Pyydämme osallistujiksi wikipedistejä sekä organisaatioita, joiden kanssa opettelemme yhdessä, heidän aineistoillaan. Järjestämme lokakuun alussa Helsingissä työpajapäivän, jossa esitellään Wikidataa sekä suomeksi että englanniksi. Puhujat ja paikka varmistuvat vähitellen, päivämäärä on 2.10.2015. Valmistelemme myös online-opiskelupakettia suomeksi. Olisi hienoa saada mukaan Wikidataa aktiivisesti muokkaavia tilaisuuteen tai opastamaan/oppimaan online. Projektin työn alla olevat sivut ovat täällä: fi:Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti Avoin kulttuuridata hyötykäyttöön. Voit myös lähettää minulle sähköpostia käyttäjäsivuni kautta.

Toivottavasti tavataan!

Ystävällisesti, Susannaanas (talk) 08:46, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Kiitos kutsusta! Pitkähkön matkan vuoksi en varmaan paikan päälle pääse, mutta etäosallistuminen saattaa onnistua. ––Apalsola (talk) 19:15, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Foot

Hei Apalsola. You wrote 48 foot for airport elevation at Q1131604. Whyt not feet instead of foot and why not metres instead of feet? Regards, --Gereon K. (talk) 08:58, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

The text is actually not "text", but a reference to Wikidata entity "Q3710", and "foot" is the form used there. There reason I used feet instead of metres is that it is the unit used in the reference. (Feet are used instead of metres to denote altitude and elevation in aviation even in countries that otherwise use metric system.) ––Apalsola (talk) 09:40, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

newspapers

I found you when I ran this query (Finland lit up very brightly). We're making a major push at the moment to improve newspaper coverage, and would love to have you join in at w:Wikipedia:WikiProject_Newspapers (also note the Wikidata subpage). --99of9 (talk) 07:47, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

@99of9: Yes, I have added some information to newspaper items, mainly to make them more usable as references in other items, and may also occasionally do so in the future. However, newspapers are not my main focus on Wikidata (nor Wikimedia projects in general), so thank you for asking but I am not interested in participating the project. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 17:09, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Stadtteil von Helsinki (Q15715406)

Kallio instance of (P31) neighbourhood of Helsinki (Q15715406) and neighbourhood of Helsinki (Q15715406) has subclass of (P279) of administrative territorial entity of Helsinki (Q3177944). That defines Kallio definitely as an administrative unit! --Arch2all (talk) 15:25, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Well, Wikidata does not define, how things are in the real world, does it? The city districts (Q21682724; kunnanosa or kaupunginosa in Finnish) in Finland are just borders on the map without any administration of their own. Municipality (Q856076; kunta or kaupunki in Finnish) is the lowest administrative unit in Finland.- ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 16:13, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

@Arch2all: Please also see the first discussion on this page: I actually got corrected myself when adding city districts as administrative territorial units. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 16:20, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Carl Lenngren ja Carl Ludvig Engel

Terve! Olen tämän Wikidatan kanssa suhteellisen kokematon, mutta huomasin Haminan Marian ja Johanneksen kirkkojen kohdalla, että arkkitehdiksi oli merkitty Carl Lenngren. Kyseessä pitäisi olla Carl Ludvig Engel, mutta näköjään tässä Wikidatassa Lenngrenin ja Engelin nimet ovat sekoittuneet. Marian kirkkoa koskevan wikidata-sivun historian mukaan sinä olit lisännyt arkkitehdiksi juuri Lenngrenin, joten tiedätkö mitään tästä sekaannuksesta? En tiedä onko Engeliä joskus kutsuttu Lenngreniksi, mutta Engel lienee tunnetumpi nimi. En itse kykene muuttamaan tietoa.Niera (talk) 21:39, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Pahoitteluni, huomasin nyt miten nimeä saa korjattua.Niera (talk) 22:06, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Niera: Minä olen kyllä lisännyt arkkitehdiksi ihan Engelin. Jostain syystä Susannaanas on maaliskuussa vaihtanut Engelin nimen Lenngreniksi, mille ei nähdäkseni ole ollut mitään perusteita. Todennäköisesti kyse on ollut vahingosta tms. Tämän vuoksi kaikissa viittauksissa Engeliin on näkynyt sitten tuo Lenngren. Samankaltaisia virheitä näkee Wikidatassa kohtuullisen paljonkin. Tässä tapauksessa virhe on nyt kuitenkin korjattu. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 07:21, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Olen nähnyt tuon Lenngrenin jossain, mutta missään nimessä en ole tehnyt muutosta tietoisesti. Tässä on sotku, selvitetään se! –Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 08:04, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Tuon niminen kuvanveistäjä ainakin on Suomessa vaikuttanut. Olisiko sekoittunut siihen? ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 08:42, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Q409603

About "More precise location must not be replaced with a less precise one": OK. The Esperanto article, and maybe in future others, used the mark [[{{#invoke:Wikidata|claim|P159}}]] to sign the location. This is not sensible with a wikidata location "quarter", "neighborhood" or "street", as articles about those locations don't exist in every languages. So "Helsinki" would be more practical here. But of course I was able to remove the invoke template from the Esperanto article - though I appretiate that articles and wikidata informations about other national branches of the Red Cross movement still enable that feature. Btw: If you're finnish, can you contribute anything on the question about {{#invoke:Wikidata|claim|P488}} in en:Talk:Finnish Red Cross? S.y. ThomasPusch (talk) 11:06, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

The description in Property:P159 clearly states that the location must specific ("specific location where an organization's headquarters is or has been situated" in English and "Ort oder Gebäude, in dem die Hauptverwaltung einer Organisation ihren Sitz hat" in German). That means the most specific item available must be used, and in that case it is the Ullanlinna city district. If there was an item for the building, that one should be used. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 12:17, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Inex-Adria Airways

Ad Inex-Adria Airways (Q95949533): Wikimedia duplicated page (Q17362920) is only applicable if there are multiple pages on the same site which have to be merged, so that both item can be merged, too. But this is not an item to be merged, so just said to be the same as (P460) (or another relation) suffices. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 08:04, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Koltansaame ja oikean pehmennysmerkin käyttö

Hei! Kiitos, kun olet lisännyt myös koltansaamea Wikidataan. Valitettavasti joudun sanomaan, että lisäämäsi labelit eivät ole ollut aina oikeita, mikä taas johtuu siitä, että koltansaamen kirjaimisto on nätisti sanottuna haastaavaa. Esim. Sevettijärven kohdalla lisäsit Če'vetjäu'rr, mutta sen nimi onkin oikein kirjoitettuna Čeʹvetjäuʹrr eli ns. pehmennysmerkki on väärä. Erikielisissä Wikipedioissa näkyy myös kolmas pehmennysmerkin vaihtoehto, joka on myös väärä. (Ja pehmennysmerkin lisäksi on kaksi muuta lähes samannäköistä, oikeaa merkkiä...) Pitäisi ehkä myös varoittaa, että Inarin kunnan omilla sivuilla tämä merkki on väärä eli tuo kolmas vaihtoehto, joka näkyy muissa Wikipedioissa välillä :D Jos ei ole koltansaamenkielistä näppäimistöä käytössä, voi esim. kopsata oikean merkin. -Yupik (talk) 11:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

En osaa lainkaan koltansaamea enkä muitakaan saamelaiskieliä, mutta noin yleisesti olen yleensä kopioinut labelit jostain sellaisenaan ja välttänyt arvailemasta itse, mitä merkkejä sanoissa on. Jos lähteessä kuitenkin on ollut virheitä, niin silloin nämä virheet ovat valitettavasti kopioituneet sellaisenaan. Yritän jatkossa muistaa käyttää oikeaa merkkiä, joskin siinä on riskinsä, jos kielitaidottomana yritän arvailla oikeaa merkkiä. Vaihtoehtona on siis lähinnä sitten jättää saamenkielisten labeleiden lisääminen ko. kieliä taitaville. Olen kuitenkin ajatellut niin päin, että on parempi, että label on olemassa edes jossain muodossa. Mahdolliset virheethän on kuitenkin helppo korjata. ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 12:04, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Joo, en pidä sitä kauhean pahana asiana, vaikka yo. kirjoitukseni kuulostaa jyrkältä nyt kun luen sitä taas. Olenhan minäkin pistänyt esim. englannin- ja suomenkieliseen Wikipediaan aikoinaan väärää merkkiä, vaikka osaan kieltä, koska se oli silloin käytössä (se on siis muuttunut tässä välissä). Merkin uutuuden takia myös lähteissä on usein väärä merkki. Jos haluat kokeilla, onko merkki oikein, yksi tapa on pasteta sana tämän sanakirjan hakukenttään ja katsoa, tunnistaako se sanan. Kiitoksia, kun lisäät näitä myös! -Yupik (talk) 16:39, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

@Yupik: En minä kirjoitustasi mitenkään jyrkkänä ottanut. :-) Terveisin ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 18:32, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Alexi Laiho

Hi Apalsola! Sorry for my last edit. When I first saw 28th December, I thought someone would've put it as a joke (28th December is like April Fools in Spain). Obviously it may not be the same date in other countries. Thanks for reverting! Yonseca (talk) 11:45, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@Yonseca: No problem! And I did not know that 28th December has a special meaning in Spain. :-) Best regards, Apalsola ^{t • c} 11:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Official name (P1448)

The description of the "official name" property (Property:P1448) clearly states: "official name of the subject in its official language". Swedish and Russian are not the official languages of the Oulu municipality. So, please stop adding other languages as contemporary values in Q47048. --Upp75 (talk) 16:38, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I am not adding them as contemporary values but properly with start time and end time statements. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 16:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

There is no evidence that Swedish and Russian were the official languages of Oulu during this period. If you disagree with the description of Property:P1448, please start a discussion in Property talk:P1448, and maybe the description and the scope of the property are eventually changed. --Upp75 (talk) 16:51, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Please just read en:Languages of Finland (I do stand corrected about Russian: it was official only between 1900 and 1917.) for example and stop your vandalism. And for anyone reading this discussion is related to an earlier discussion in User talk:Upp75#Official name (P1448) (permanent link). ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 17:00, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Just read fi:Oulu#Kielet. The article does not say anything about the use of Russian ever. The official language of the municipality is Finnish [1]. Property:P1448 use only one official name on official language. --Upp75 (talk) 17:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Upp75: fi:Oulu#Kielet says nothing about the official language(s) of the city, only the language demographics of the population which is not necessarily the same thing, especially in the past times. And yes, Finnish is currently the only official language in Oulu. However that does not apply to the past: until the 19th century Swedish was the only official language in the area that is now called Finland. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 13:13, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Chorus master (Q1076502 and Q42227156)

Dear Apalsola. I am confused about two items named "sbormistr" (chorus master) in Czech. I do not understand the difference between them and I believe they could be merged. In 2018, you added the "different from" (P1889) property to one of the items. Could you please explain me all the thing? Thank you a lot and sorry for disturbing you with that. --Okino (talk) 14:33, 23 May 2021 (UTC):

Choir director or choral conductor is the director of a choir who rehearses the choir and also conducts it in concerts and other performances. The choir director is often also the artistic director of the choir, so he/she makes most of the artistic decisions. In contrary, chorus master works in an opera house (for example) and only rehearses the choir. In concerts and performances the choir sings together with the orchestra and is thus conducted by the conductor of the orchestra. I hope this helps. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 20:41, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. I understand it, but in Czech it is rather the same. Difficult to manage it in Wikipedia interwiki, I think that majority of "chorus master" articles (I can understand articles in cs, ru, uk, rue) are about "choir directors" (or they do not distinguish between the two and they discuss both)... --Okino (talk) 21:18, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Finnish trade register vs BIS

Hi! You deleted some statements that I imported from GLEI RAL: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q10501290&type=revision&diff=1516504654&oldid=1438926960

Here's the GLEI RAL entry:

• Registration Authority Code: RA000188
• Country: Finland
• Country Code: FI
• Jurisdiction (country or region): Finland
• International name of Register: The Business Information System (BIS)
• Local name of Register: Yritys- ja yhteisötietojärjestelmä (YTJ)
• International name of organisation responsible for the Register: Finnish Patent and Registration Office
• Local name of organisation responsible for the Register: Patentti- ja Rekisterihallitus
• Website: http://www.prh.fi/en/kaupparekisteri.html

You make a distinction between the Trade register, the BIS system (which displays data from that register) and the registration authority (which I guess is both Finnish Patent and Registration Office and the Finnish Tax Administration).

Most other countries (as reflected in the RAL list itself and in existing items), rarely make this distinction.

Rather than deleting my statements, please make the extra items that you believe should exist, add appropriate types ("instance of"), make appropriate links between them, and add my statements to the appropriate item.

Thanks! --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 13:07, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

@Vladimir Alexiev: In addition to the Trade register (Q5450822), the Business Information System also displays data from other registers such the Register of Associations (Q18690992), the Register of Foundations (Q18694603) and various registers maintained by the Finnish Tax Administration (Q18693786). So, in this case, the distinction clearly needs to be made. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 18:15, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

• Ok! I added appropriate "has part" statements. Now let's figure out whether RA000188 belongs to Business Information System (Q10501290) or Finnish Trade Register (Q5450822).
  • Do these 3 registers have a unified identifier space (as it is in Bulgaria, see BG EIK (P8894)?
  • Take a look at https://search.gleif.org/#/search/simpleSearch=RA000188: this lists not just traders but also others, correct? (eg a museum)
  • If so, I think RA000188 should stay at Business Information System (Q10501290) --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 12:04, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Call for participation in a task-based online experiment

Dear Apalsola,

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The study will start in late February 2022, and it should take no more than 30 minutes. If you agree to participate in this study, please either contact me at [email protected] or use this form https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSees9WzFXR0Vl3mHLkZCaByeFHRrBy51kBca53euq9nt3XWog/viewform?usp=sf_link

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Regards Kholoudsaa (talk) 23:17, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Stadium

Hi, Apalsola, how are you? About this ok, but maybe it´s not a stadium (Q483110) then. ¿multi-purpose sports venue (Q1049757)? Or maybe it´s not a stadium at all, because i think it´s like a sports park, and the stadium is when you have tiers, right? What do you think. Vanbasten 23 (talk) 11:06, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

I think, "sports park" (Q16363669) describes this facility best. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 15:41, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, i didn´t see that you changed it and i erased, but now it´s ok, tranks and sorry. --Vanbasten 23 (talk) 17:38, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

No, problem at all! Best regads ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 17:39, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Köping

In Alavus (Q5981) you added köping (Q10571400) however in part of the series (P179) it is only administrative territorial entity of Sweden (Q914262). I think there should be a new object for "köping" in Finland or is there an object I can't find. Maundwiki (talk) 13:33, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Oulu and Swedish language

Hi @Apalsola! Although Swedish is not the official language of the city of Oulu, the Swedish name of the city is official (Uleåborg). Here is the listing from the Kotus website [2]. Peltimikko (talk) 08:18, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

@Peltimikko: The description of the property Property:P1448 states: "official name of the subject in its official language(s)". Thus, even though "Uleåborg" indeed is the official Swedish name of Oulu, it should not be added to Property:P1448 with the Preferred rank because Swedish is not an official language in Oulu anymore. Best regards, ––Apalsola ^{t • c} 13:30, 6 May 2024 (UTC)