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Here’s part of a 2001 article I wrote:
Science of nightclub bouncing studied
By STEVE SAILER, UPI National Correspondent
MOSCOW, June 29 — Late one night outside Munich’s Nacht-Caf — a dance club so exclusive that just a few weeks earlier its formidable platoon of doormen had turned away German tennis legend Boris Becker for wearing sandals instead of shoes — a ferociously drunk man demanded admittance.
Denied, the burly drunk screamed threats at the head bouncer from inches away, then ripped his shirt open to display his powerful pectoral muscles. The doorman didn’t flinch, but his four well-trained subordinates quickly formed a phalanx behind him. The boss bouncer coolly took out a pack of cigarettes, tapped one out, lit it and blew smoke in the dangerous drunk’s face.
Intimidated, the screamer slunk off without a fight.
What the drunk couldn’t see, though, was that behind the head doorman’s cool facade, his back was trembling. This was highly evident, though, to political scientist Frank Salter, who was standing behind the doormen videotaping the confrontation as part of his study of dominance. Salter saw this a classic example of what “ethologists” (scientists who study the biological basis of behavior) describe as the adrenaline-charged “fight-or-flight” response.
“It’s called the ‘tremors,'” the leader explained to Salter later. “I can control my front, but not my back. When my fist sinks into his flesh for the first time, though, I lose the tremors.”
Salter, an Australian Ph.D. now with the Max Planck Institute in Germany, said he learned during his study in Munich and Brisbane, Australia, that barroom bouncers are “tradesmen of hand-to-hand combat and social dominance.”
While hosting a Moscow conference on evolution and human behavior in Moscow last June, Salter reviewed the findings of his groundbreaking study. During quiet times, the bouncers he studied had studied exchange tips and strategies (what Salter calls “social technology”) on their three favorite subjects: sex, violence, and drinking.
“They’re more sophisticated on fighting than on getting women,” Salter observed, in an interview conducted June 23. “They engage in very technical talk about fighting tactics.” For example, Salter listened to well-informed debates over how soon to try to get an opponent down on the ground in order to “put the boot in” (as Australians call kicking a man when he’s down.)
Yet, a good professional bouncer prefers to verbally intimidate potentially violent drunks.
“Bouncers can all fight,” Salter noted, “But they rank each other by their talking ability. The lowest ranked fought the most. The highest ranked had the best social skills.” Salter found, “The best bouncers and doormen are articulate and quick with comebacks.” …
While bouncers might not be traditional subjects for scientific study, they provided Salter with vivid examples of the kind of dominance hierarchies among humans that Nobel Laureate Konrad Lorenz studied among barnyard fowl and Jane Goodall observed among chimpanzees. Salter decided to study bouncers when a friend told him, “Hey, you want dominance, go to nightclubs.” …
Read the whole thing there.
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UPI was purchased in May 2000 by News World Communications, a media conglomerate founded by Unification movement founder Sun Myung Moon, which also owned The Washington Times and newspapers in South Korea, Japan, and South America.[11] The next day, UPI’s White House correspondent, Helen Thomas, resigned her position, after working for UPI for 57 years.[24]
Steve, what was it like working for the Moonies ? You’ve never mentioned this before. Did they make you return most of your wage to the movement ? Can you dispel those rumours that you are married to a Korean ? C’mon, man.
Boris Becker had a tough twenty year stretch there, from getting turned away from a club in Munich, to going bankrupt, to getting put in jail in England.
But he seems to be having a bit of a renaissance now, coaching the young Dane Holger Rune (who’s facing Djokovic on Sunday).
His tax evasion problems were amusing, similar to the greatest British Jockey Lester Piggot who made a final settlement of his tax liabilities with a cheque from an undeclared account.Replies: @SFG
This seems like a transparent ploy to get GToD to regale us with yet another humblebrag tall tale about his salad days. Oh well, have at it.
King Lear, I.ii
Yeah, I knew a crew of bouncers back in the old days: one was a former member of the Bulgarian Olympic wrestling team, another was an Ivy League doctoral student in engineering. They used to sneak me into nightclubs I never could have gotten into under my own steam, and also all the fun (and non-fun) after-hours joints like Save the Robots. PRO TIP: a lot of after-hours clubs are pathetic, they run on drearily into the afternoon the following day, and mainly consist of sad-sacks who Just Don't Want to Go Home. They smell of the same desperation as the horrible gambling clubs in that movie "Rounders". I developed a strong distaste for that sort of thing in my teens, which probably saved me a lot of grief in the long run.
On the other hand, sometimes you wake up on the floor of a place like Danceteria or the Lounge with an 80s Madonna lookalike on top of you, it puts a wee bit of hair on yer chest, laddie.
What I noticed about the bouncers I knew (these guys were enforcers, not the door guys) was that they worked in a curiously ruthless pattern:
1. try firmly but sensibly to reason with a troublemaker;
2. if this does not work, form a human wall and swarm implacably.
A certain amount of Mack Sennett style physical comedy did result, 'tis true. But stay out of after-hours joints: as they say, Nothing good ever happens in a bar after 3 AM.
Meanwhile, UCLA students organize on campus to play a game they call
“Beat the Fucking Jew.”
The times they are a-changing…
I would say try not lying, but then you wouldn't have much to say for your side, would you?Replies: @Anonymous
But he seems to be having a bit of a renaissance now, coaching the young Dane Holger Rune (who's facing Djokovic on Sunday).Replies: @HammerJack, @Sean, @Emil Nikola Richard
Even worse, he got fat for a while.
Authors of academic papers are fiction writers who exaggerate (and universalize) their observations to sound more fascinating. They also take bullshit that individual subjects tell them as the gospel truth:
“Bouncers can all fight,” Salter noted, “But they rank each other by their talking ability. The lowest ranked fought the most. The highest ranked had the best social skills.”
It's not bullshit. You don't want a fight, and as long as they're talking and not fighting, it's giving time for the paid police detail the owner always had on Thursday through Sunday to get to where the trouble was. The issue with the mass of my colleagues was not just a varied supply of social skills, but the distance in their tiny little brains from talking to fighting.Replies: @JimDandy
What is the point of this post? A silly news article from 20 years ago?
And is this “Salter” real or just a badly disguised “Sailer” alter-ego?
Er… In my experience, 90% bouncers are inarticulate, low-IQ violent gorillas whom you want distance from. Preferably, by not frequenting nightclubs in the first place.
Jane Goodall probably has better studies applicable to bouncers than this Salter/Sailer dude.
The final paragraph is:
Is this an early instance of the trademark Sailerian Abrupt End, or is the UPI archive missing something?
from: https://gab.com/TheExcruciationator/posts/111225650423767702
And Friday’s Grift that keeps on giving:
As a bonus, it chose to do it in San Francisco.
https://www.westernjournal.com/electric-bus-loses-power-going-hill-rolls-backward-crashes-line-cars/
Afterthought, Isn’t Newsom hosting some APEC meeting tomorrow where Xhi deigns to meet Pedo Joe?
Imagine the effort that must be going on to keep the attendees away from the Tenderloin.
One of the nastiest streets in the south of Market skid row or psycho central is 6th street. The freeway off ramp for downtown and the expensive hotels goes directly to 6th street. So every tourist who flies to SFO gets to see nasty 6th street.
Well written article Steve. Very New Journalism feel to it, which is nice.
Unsurprising about verbal intimidation being preferred.
If it gets physical, the bouncers will almost always win. But even then, there’s a lot of disruption, and any other patrons will likely get the impression “This is a violent place.”
Most who get that impression will decide to go somewhere else. The few who like it – you don’t really want them as patrons. They may spend a lot or a little, but they’re likely looking for a fight.
And that’s if there’s no property damage and no other patrons end up involved.
A bouncer’s primary job is to keep things quiet, so money keeps flowing.
“All you have to do is follow three simple rules. One, never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected. Two, take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it's absolutely necessary. And three, be nice,” Dalton (Patrick Swayze).
But he seems to be having a bit of a renaissance now, coaching the young Dane Holger Rune (who's facing Djokovic on Sunday).Replies: @HammerJack, @Sean, @Emil Nikola Richard
With Elon Musk ever woman who has sex with him for the first time will immediately be trying to get pregnant. But horrifyingly for those who think wealth equals freedom to do whatever you want, Becker got a random blow job in a facy restaurant’s broom cupboard and the woman got herself pregnant by it (she’d have had ten minutes).
His tax evasion problems were amusing, similar to the greatest British Jockey Lester Piggot who made a final settlement of his tax liabilities with a cheque from an undeclared account.
I worked out the value of the stuff in child support payments, divided by ounces. Even accounting for the time value of money, it was more valuable than gold!Replies: @Tom F., @Alfa158
When I was a fresher I was hired as bodyguard to a stripper. Most intriguing job offer I ever had.
To be graphic, the woman gives a BJ and excuses herself for the bathroom but does not swallow and then has time to scoop out the semen and insert and maybe get lucky with well paid child support from the schlub who wondered how this could’ve happened.
I’ve read this happened to be an NBA player and the NBA now warns rookies about things like this at an orientation.
Not the same level of $$ involved but my nephew was in officer training before shipping off to Afghan and was warned that the local townies regarded it as a great money opportunity to get knocked up by an officer passing through.
I note from the other UPI stories that Jezebel is no more:
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2023/11/10/Online-womens-blog-Jezebel-suspends-operations/7761699594637/
Is there an online version of Salter’s paper anywhere? My clubbing days are over, but I imagine that the basics of bouncing won’t have changed too much – though probably stab and bullet-proof vests are now the norm.
Emotions in Command: A Naturalistic Study of Institutional Dominance
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4236323
This 2005 paper (Steve's article was from 2001) is related and is available on SciHub.
Sex differences in negotiating with powerful males : An ethological analysis of approaches to nightclub doormen
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26189753/
People can all posture anonymously online how tough they are or how well they can fight, but it doesn’t take long for those of us with extensive fighting training and experience to figure out who’s just bluffing and who has the real knowledge. Fighting is like any other human physical endeavor – those who are expert at it can discuss it in an articulate and technical manner, because like any set of physical skills, it comes from training and experience. Have Jon Jones talk about anything else, he sounds like a complete knucklehead, but have him dissect fighting, suddenly the man sounds and is extreme knowledgeable.
John Danaher, the renowned BJJ and Judo black belt, who has coached the former UFC champion, Georges St. Pierre, as well as the widely considered to be the best grappler on the planet at the moment, Gordon Ryan, was a bouncer in NYC while working toward his Ph.D. in philosophy at Columbia University.
Dan Henderson, on the other hand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IRlplbrZzAReplies: @JimDandy, @Twinkie, @Rick P
And why should they? Most of us want to go about our daily chores without being bothered by the fear that at any moment we may have to defend our right to exist in and through a violent confrontation with another. And for the most part we are free from that fear. But there's always a few assholes who for some reason seem to think that they will benefit from challenging someone around them and they seem to be lacking in a certain sense of judgement. They vastly overrate themselves and get themselves into trouble and end up humiliated. Which may not bother them that much.
When my car was rammed by a driver from behind and I took it into the body shop for repairs, the guy at the front desk told me that the same people showed up over and over with their battered cars.
"Really?!"
"Yes, really", he assured me.Replies: @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @Muse
A club that sees the need to post a team of bouncers is a club best avoided.
Nobody was there for any sort of peaceful evening.Replies: @MGB
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-kyle-rittenhouse-the-view-abc-677910767107
And this looks like satire.
https://usapress.info/kyle-rittenhouse-registers-a-lien-against-whoopi-goldbergs-malibu-home-for-22-million
Looks like the original settled lawsuit claim was satire as well.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-view-settles-rittenhouse-22-million/
Why bring this up now?
His tax evasion problems were amusing, similar to the greatest British Jockey Lester Piggot who made a final settlement of his tax liabilities with a cheque from an undeclared account.Replies: @SFG
In my degenerate days, I was quite careful about what happened to the ejaculate after the fact for exactly the reason you cite. I don’t think Steve wants the details on his blog…
I worked out the value of the stuff in child support payments, divided by ounces. Even accounting for the time value of money, it was more valuable than gold!
Off-topic, but I think this falls into Steve Sailer’s area of inquiry: Richard Hanania sent out the following in an email (I don’t pay so I can’t see the rest of the essay), which resembles (in an opposite way) things Sailer has written about in re the population of Los Angeles. Whereas Sailer has suggested that Angelenos are becoming less nice because of immigration, Hanania thinks we should all be more like a nonchalant black man he describes. I’m all for courage, myself, but I think one can distinguish courage from ungentlemanly behavior:
HANANIA: There was this pretty brunette who would occasionally come in. She was naturally above average looking, though you could tell that she put a lot of effort into her appearance too. At the same time, she had a sort of nervous personality; standoffish, not in the way where she thinks she’s better than other people, but rather deeply anxious. I felt like she always had to be looksmaxxing because life would be too unbearable if she did anything else. There was also this black guy who was a regular customer. He was very tall, and more noticeable for being muscular than fat, and always in workout clothes, either because he was always going to the gym when I saw him or that was just the way he dressed. He was laid back and jovial and I enjoyed talking to him.
One day their paths crossed. The brunette was walking towards the door to leave, and the big black guy was just coming in. He looked down at her and was like “Oh, hey…” like he was Barry White, as he slightly tripped over something. She looked up at him with fear in her eyes, a deer in the headlights, he laughed, and the girl quickly walked out right past him. Our black friend didn’t give it a second thought and then proceeded to greet me like he had every other time I ever saw him.
Most men are afraid of approaching women, likely for reasons that are evolutionarily rational but lead to maladaptive behavior in modern life. It’s easy to catastrophize, come up with sensible reasons why you shouldn’t try to talk to this particular woman at this particular moment, and to do the same thing next time, ad infinitum, until you go to your grave as a Darwinian dead end. And although no one will ever accuse me of being an Ibram Kendi, or even a Chatterton, I understand that black men hitting on white women might have extra reasons to be nervous, out of fears of social rejection and the potential for unusual levels of awkwardness alone even if the threat of interracial violence has gone down.
But my black friend didn’t care about any of that. Years later, I saw a clip of Alex Jones where he was encouraging his listeners to go hard fighting the globalists or whichever enemy he was fixated on that day, and said something along the lines of “You gotta be like a black guy hitting on girls, man. You’ve ever seen them? On to the next one, next one, next one.” I knew exactly what he was talking about, as would anyone who has lived around a large city in the midwest or south. Sometimes people accuse me of being anti-black because I’ll talk about crime statistics or whatever, but I’ve liked the vast majority of black people I’ve met, and found much to admire in their carefree attitude towards life. I grew up on gangsta rap, seeing it as a manifestation of some of the best attributes of black culture. My feelings about the art form became more nuanced as I grew older, but I still have the sense that most people in modern societies are pathologically risk averse and soft, and men in particular have a lot to learn from what has been one of the last repositories of older ideals of masculinity. I think mainstream American society would be better off learning from the ghetto than it would be learning from China, with its masked kindergartners and adults going through their lonely lives with crippling anxiety. One reason BLM offends me so much is that it maintains the more dysfunctional attitudes of the gangsta rap era — sympathy for criminals, oppositional and resentful attitudes towards white society, tribal simplicity — while doing away with its virtues, making black social consciousness more feminine and gay.
These two incidents helped me develop the ways in which I think about social anxiety, confidence, and why some people are happier than others. The most salient aspects of this worldview rely on facts that everyone understands, but you rarely see people appreciate the degree to which they should guide how we live…
Blacks are less socially anxious because welfare allows them to spend their entire lives living close to their relatives. They always have their village around them, and it's an emotional security net.
We have excellent reasons for being afraid of black men. Fear of robbery rape serious injury or murder. There’s also the incessant sex harassment. I and most White women don’t want to talk to black men. They’re physically ugly pests. Inoffensive trying to start a conversation isn’t sex harassment. But black men are gross and disgusting. And always try to start a conversation or flirt or whatever it’s called.
Idiots are always talking about situational awareness will keep you safe. But never mentioning what you should be aware of.
Here’s the only situational awareness anyone needs. One black man might or might not be a criminal planning to rob rape or murder you. Two black men are probably robbers rapists or murderers. Three black men are definitely robbers murderers rapists.
You really enjoyed that scene of a woman being afraid of a man didn’t you you sadistic pervert.
I stopped reading right there.
I have a small amount of experience here, and it’s not the cleverness or quickness of your quips that gets you respect from the other bouncers, it’s just the tendency to make problems go away without making everybody work harder. You have to be someone people don’t want to fight, i.e. easy to like, big, and imperturbable. The latter is important because people need a certain amount of permission from you to attack for status reasons. My Asperger’s was actually a blessing in this context because I don’t reciprocate nonverbal threat displays by nature, so there would be no mutual escalation, but there are some serious downsides to this trait. Being perceived as nice is actually good because people don’t want to fight nice guys, and they get offended when someone else does (“why would anyone fight Derek? he’s so nice!”), and I bet that’s part of why bouncers aren’t getting laid as much as you’d expect from their violent profession.
To put it another way, de-escalation is a form of power that violence professionals respect in the same way that workers respect a negotiator who lands them a cushy gig.
John Danaher, the renowned BJJ and Judo black belt, who has coached the former UFC champion, Georges St. Pierre, as well as the widely considered to be the best grappler on the planet at the moment, Gordon Ryan, was a bouncer in NYC while working toward his Ph.D. in philosophy at Columbia University.Replies: @Sam Hildebrand, @ThreeCranes, @Dummy Bear
Not sure a GSP type UFC fighter would make an intimidating bouncer. “Boy you better stop causing trouble or I will open up a can of double leg take down and lay on top of you for fifteen minutes.”
Dan Henderson, on the other hand:
Don't be fooled by "range restriction" - in this case against fellow elite cage fighters.
He did this to Matt Hughes, who was a HS wrestling champ in IL, placed as high as third in the country in college wrestling, and was a dominant early UFC champion:
https://youtu.be/9fS-m-bUCtM?si=s_yqtJvBLkgTtRBeHendo had a granite chin and massive power with that right hand (no doubt boosted by years of documented synthetic testosterone use), but he had a very rudimentary game. He never used his Greco wrestling skills well and his striking offense was basically the left low kick, followed by that big right hand. When he ran into a very technical fighter, he was easily out-struck and beaten:
https://youtu.be/tUChHfPheUI?si=1DaK3VpdnJzpOxnQReplies: @Pincher Martin
Off topic If anyone who reads this is reasonably near Phoenix AP, I need some help. I am in China and my car is at a sketchy hotel near PHX. I drove in from Tucson and did not have time to find a different parking lot before my plane left. Looking at the reviews online, I think this was a mistake. I would like some one to go by the lot to see if my poor car is still OK. I need to extend my trip but I worry about leaving my car there any longer. Reply and I will give you the details. Thanks
A final note on the getting laid thing: it’s like normal guys with a slightly higher mean and skewed to the extremes. There will be a couple of very promiscuous guys but most will have steady girlfriends and dry spells in between, and a few will really struggle, like normal.
Doormen have better de-escalation skills that most cops in the US.
Most cops are former jocks, steeped deeply in the WIN every confrontation mindset. They can never back down on anything and will continue to escalate situations to physical violence when their egos have been damaged by someone not obeying their “commands.”
Bouncers are better trained and probably higher IQ than the average beat (pun) cop, which also explains cops low impulse control to commit violence because their fragile pride has been wounded by mere words.
Clowns, the lot of them
The habit of exerting primitive social dominance makes a former bouncer completely useless and toxic in any other work environment.
What’s with the spate of single-word headlines today?
During the 80s in NY we had bouncers start getting stabbed and shot. One was shot dead by a couple Albanians who fled the country afterwards back when there was no extradition treaty. A few of the giants I knew gave up what used to be an easy job after that. The best I ever saw was a big Irish American buddy of mine when a fired bartender returned with a bat and took a swing, the bouncer caught the bat and took it away from him. The bartender stood staring, then ran for his life. The bouncers then destroyed his car.
But he seems to be having a bit of a renaissance now, coaching the young Dane Holger Rune (who's facing Djokovic on Sunday).Replies: @HammerJack, @Sean, @Emil Nikola Richard
Holger Rune’s last two coaches lasted a few months each. In addition to having the second greatest name in sports (behind Norwegian hurdler Warhammer) the young Dane is stubborn as a donkey. Probably no way Boris makes it to the U. S. Open.
I worked out the value of the stuff in child support payments, divided by ounces. Even accounting for the time value of money, it was more valuable than gold!Replies: @Tom F., @Alfa158
LOL! There is a ‘school of thought’ promoted by certain cocksmen, that the discarded condom be seasoned, surrepticiously, with hot sauce. The woman may not enjoy it, but the next guy might.
That was a 2001 article. The multiethnic component to today’s clubs probably beg for a multicultural cadre of bouncers to keep the peace. I imagine black bouncers are sent for the black patrons getting out of hand in particular so that evictions are not seen as a racial event that could so easily pull in, like a giant gas planet’s gravity pulls in many moons, extra combatants. Mainstream clubs by now are assuredly very diverse places. The world of 2001, especially before September 11 of that year, really was a bit different than now. A tad free-er and less invasive to be sure.
OT: Bill Mahr and Sharon Osbourne agree that London going from 86% white to 36% white in the last 5 decades is a good thing and that whites that don’t like it can just move. The article is in Unz Aggregated Newslinks with attendant video. Oh what politically correct friends we have indeed. I don’t think I’d like to patronize a 36% white club. Now, where to move?
John Danaher, the renowned BJJ and Judo black belt, who has coached the former UFC champion, Georges St. Pierre, as well as the widely considered to be the best grappler on the planet at the moment, Gordon Ryan, was a bouncer in NYC while working toward his Ph.D. in philosophy at Columbia University.Replies: @Sam Hildebrand, @ThreeCranes, @Dummy Bear
That’s it. Practice it and you’ll improve. There’s no one in the world who is foolish enough to believe that they can pick up a musical instrument and play expertly, but there are guys who believe that they can win a fight just by getting mad or drunk enough. Fools. Fighting is a set of skills that need to be learned, practiced, and mastered by sheer repetition. Course, you need to couple that with top-notch conditioning, which is another set of skills that requires a serious commitment of time. And then you sorta need to clean up your act with respect to diet and drink. So altogether, it’s a lifestyle, and one that few have the time, will, ambition, native talent or desire to follow through on.
And why should they? Most of us want to go about our daily chores without being bothered by the fear that at any moment we may have to defend our right to exist in and through a violent confrontation with another. And for the most part we are free from that fear. But there’s always a few assholes who for some reason seem to think that they will benefit from challenging someone around them and they seem to be lacking in a certain sense of judgement. They vastly overrate themselves and get themselves into trouble and end up humiliated. Which may not bother them that much.
When my car was rammed by a driver from behind and I took it into the body shop for repairs, the guy at the front desk told me that the same people showed up over and over with their battered cars.
“Really?!”
“Yes, really”, he assured me.
I'm a bit cranky right now, because my older sons are currently semi-cutting weight for their hydration test next week (wrestling season started) and, as usual, I cut weight with them in solidarity whenever they do so for wrestling, Judo, and BJJ.Because it's really fun?
Wrestling and Judo (or serious striking training with sparring or worse something like Kali, Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) are hard for unathletic adults to start, but BJJ is pretty low impact. I've never known anybody who started BJJ even as an older adult to regret it.Replies: @ThreeCranes
He’s channeling Dick Francis.
John Danaher, the renowned BJJ and Judo black belt, who has coached the former UFC champion, Georges St. Pierre, as well as the widely considered to be the best grappler on the planet at the moment, Gordon Ryan, was a bouncer in NYC while working toward his Ph.D. in philosophy at Columbia University.Replies: @Sam Hildebrand, @ThreeCranes, @Dummy Bear
Regarding Georges St-Pierre: I saw him interviewed on television recently. He was asked about his acting career (Georges Batroc in a Captain America movie and TV series). He said his experience as an MMA fighter had prepared him for that. When making his way to the ring, he had to act out looking calm and self-assured in order to intimidate his opponent, while he admitted he was actually scared most of the times…
Why?
I don’t believe that the best bouncers are people who are “articulate and quick with comebacks.” What is behind that statement is the fallacy of trying to prevent the neglecting of a secondary factor by saying that it is the primary factor. For example, a golf announcer will sometimes say that a particular golfer gets his power from his hips or his legs.
Salter said: “The best bouncers and doormen are articulate and quick with comebacks.” He also said: “Bouncers can all fight.” That seems true to me (i.e. not fallacious). What would be fallacious is to say: "people who are articulate and quick with comebacks are the best bouncers" as if that was the primary factor.
Two possible primary factors are ability to fight and physical presence (e.g. intimidation). Which is more important seems situational. If you are intimidating but can't fight you'll get away with it for a while, but that likely will end. If you can fight but aren't intimidating will probably have to fight some until your reputation is established. And even then will encounter new people. What other factors do people see?
You see the fallacious version of this sort of reasoning frequently with IQ and intellectual endeavors (where IQ = ability to fight in the analogy).Replies: @JimDandy, @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre
iSteve, you might be interested in superb microsociologist Randall Collin’s work on violence. Its virtue is that it is based on minute examination of a wide variety of real human interactions by an astute observer and theorist. Lots and lots of examples to ponder.
Although I was never a fighter, and that would be obvious to any trained fighter, in my early 20s I was in a weird situation where I was exposed many times for many hours to a crazy who frequently threatened to kill me. After much of that I learned that threats are a ritual and actual violence unlikely. That gave me a lifelong confidence that allowed me to remain calm and prevail during situations that others experienced as threatening.
In 2022 he followed up with Explosive Conflict: Time-Dynamics of Violence (which I haven’t examined).
He also wrote a novel, Civil War, reimagining the North-South Civil war in the present, how it would unfold with today’s war technologies. I’m pretty sure that book would be awful, but who knows. Much of his other work is valuable, but I’ll stop here.
The lie by omission in excluding the most egregious example which happened for an entire year in between A and C, and the strident editorial stance (9/11 --> "nationalism and hysteria"?) tells me all I need to know. Hard pass.
Marjorie Taylor Greene is at least trying to bounce the treasonous Mayorkas.
This is America today. We’re reduced to some random woman trying to do the defense work that is a core job of men.
I don’t believe that the best bouncers are people who are “articulate and quick with comebacks.” What is behind that statement is the fallacy of trying to prevent the neglecting of a secondary factor by saying that it is the primary factor. For example, a golf announcer will sometimes say that a particular golfer gets his power from his hips or his legs.Replies: @rebel yell, @res
I don’t know – Alan Dershowitz might make a great bouncer. If he threatened you with a law suit most people would turn around and run like hell!
If true, that is deeply silly and economically underperforming. There are definite “club culture” benefits in terms of atmosphere, and hence popularity and profit, from “curating” a club’s racial profile.
This was in Bavaria in 2001. There may not have been a lot of (or at least the same) racial minorities as in the US in the 2020s, don't be too quick to make assumptions from your own experience.
Not relevant in urban US anymore. Thugs show up armed when a bouncer disses them.
Why are you posting this article right now?
So you mean to tell me that the movie Road House was more or less accurate?
Also, this article serves as an interesting historical document. Imagine young people going out to clubs and trying to have heterosexual sex with each other. Pretty sure that’s a thing of the past.
Anyone watch the debate the other night? My rankings:
1. Nikki Haley. She substantively had such strong answers that she looked like someone who could actually do the job of president Neoconservatism made its comeback last night, and Nikki Haley led the charge. Whether talking China, Israel, Ukraine, or Iran, she was crisp and confident. Her answer on abortion was thoughtful and seemed likely to connect with both primary and swing voters. If this were an actually competitive presidential nomination process, you’d be hard-pressed not to see Haley as far and away the most viable candidate for the general election. She certainly beat all the boys. Such as they were. The stylistic contrast between Ramaswamy has been a boon for her.
2. Ron Desantis. His best moment was early in the debate, when he made the case against Trump. He cannot escape the fact that it makes no real sense to try to run as a more competent Donald Trump, for the simple reason that the entire question of competence is orthogonal to Trump’s appeal. Just once, though, I’d like to see him debate without proposing a policy that violates the Constitution. He did nothing, however, to distinguish himself — or to slow the momentum of Nikki Haley, who has been gradually creeping up on him. So very, very hard to imagine him moving up to … anything.
3. Chris Christie. He was a little lower energy than usual. He deserves praise for his substantive, competent answers, but there’s not much of a market for that in the Republican primaries. It shows just how much the Republican Party has changed that Christie is viewed as more heretic than adherent. His reason for running was to thwart Trump.. When Christie isn’t running against Trump, one wonders why he runs at all.
4. Tim Scott. He’s right to emphasize rebuilding U.S. industry as a strategic necessity. His answers were filled with platitudes and wannabe sound bites that seemed ill suited to the moment. I’m not sure why Scott is still in the race. There’s no real appetite for the zombie Reaganism he displayed.
5. Vivek Ramaswamy. It’s actually uncanny how much he imitates the culture, positions and manners of right-wing Twitter trolls. If you’re gonna be the outspoken outsider, you have to be interesting as well as loud and irritating. He seemed to be running for most likely to get punched in the face.
Has he been replaced by ChatGP AI?Replies: @New Dealer, @Anonymous
I worked out the value of the stuff in child support payments, divided by ounces. Even accounting for the time value of money, it was more valuable than gold!Replies: @Tom F., @Alfa158
That was a funny line in the movie Bad Teacher. Bad teacher played by Cameron Diaz was recounting her failed attempts during summer break to hit the jackpot by getting impregnated by an NBA star. “ I found out they not only use condoms, but they take them away”.
https://www.amazon.com/Violence-Micro-sociological-Theory-Randall-Collins/dp/0691143226Although I was never a fighter, and that would be obvious to any trained fighter, in my early 20s I was in a weird situation where I was exposed many times for many hours to a crazy who frequently threatened to kill me. After much of that I learned that threats are a ritual and actual violence unlikely. That gave me a lifelong confidence that allowed me to remain calm and prevail during situations that others experienced as threatening.
In 2022 he followed up with Explosive Conflict: Time-Dynamics of Violence (which I haven't examined).He also wrote a novel, Civil War, reimagining the North-South Civil war in the present, how it would unfold with today's war technologies. I'm pretty sure that book would be awful, but who knows. Much of his other work is valuable, but I'll stop here.Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
“Ranging from the three months of nationalism and hysteria after 9/11 to the assault on the Capitol in 2021”
The lie by omission in excluding the most egregious example which happened for an entire year in between A and C, and the strident editorial stance (9/11 –> “nationalism and hysteria”?) tells me all I need to know. Hard pass.
what’s the legality of it all? i’ve always wondered this. these guys are allowed to beat down random people. beat their ass pretty severely too. and it’s not a thing. but if beat down random people who deserved it, i’m almost certainly immediately in serious legal trouble now, in our very litigious society. whereas 40 to 50 years a go you could have a fist fight with a guy and then that would be it. no police. no lawsuits. some punches and headlocks traded and that’s it. what’s the “Bouncer’s exception” in the Tort books? is there written language for this? we all understand police officers can beat you down without getting in any trouble most of the time, but these guys aren’t law enforcement.
i see that in Democrat controlled cities, the concept of ‘mutual combat’ has returned, when it’s time to get africans out of legal trouble. huh? that used to be how it always was for average Americans for literally hundreds of years if they wanted to brawl without weapons at least. now you get a criminal record for punching a drunk guy in the mouth one time and flattening him, after hours of him asking for it, if that’s what the powers that be want – and they usually do.
depending on the situation, and the applicable Sam Francis anarcho-tyranny laws, these days you literally can’t even touch most people if you’re a normally law abiding, tax paying, productive pale person. whereas they can do almost anything to you. also, if you react or respond in any way other than letting them beat the hell out of you, suddenly they start screaming for the police. basically the gentleman’s handshake agreement society used to have to honor the laws of the jungle – don’t mess with big strong guys who are minding their own business, and if you do, expect to get popped in the jaw, with no police or lawyers suddenly showing up help you – is totally ignored these days. small weak annoying guys can expect to get away with almost anything, and the police only ever show up if they start getting the worst of things after they instigated it all first.
I don’t believe that the best bouncers are people who are “articulate and quick with comebacks.” What is behind that statement is the fallacy of trying to prevent the neglecting of a secondary factor by saying that it is the primary factor. For example, a golf announcer will sometimes say that a particular golfer gets his power from his hips or his legs.Replies: @rebel yell, @res
Good point. I am not sure it is a fallacy though. Perhaps a better way to get the point across is: “among people who are bouncers the best are those who are articulate and quick with comebacks.”
Salter said: “The best bouncers and doormen are articulate and quick with comebacks.” He also said: “Bouncers can all fight.” That seems true to me (i.e. not fallacious). What would be fallacious is to say: “people who are articulate and quick with comebacks are the best bouncers” as if that was the primary factor.
Two possible primary factors are ability to fight and physical presence (e.g. intimidation). Which is more important seems situational. If you are intimidating but can’t fight you’ll get away with it for a while, but that likely will end. If you can fight but aren’t intimidating will probably have to fight some until your reputation is established. And even then will encounter new people. What other factors do people see?
You see the fallacious version of this sort of reasoning frequently with IQ and intellectual endeavors (where IQ = ability to fight in the analogy).
Exactly the guy to be unhorsed by a gesture.
I bounced (they called it bar backing) at The Lodge and Shenanigan's at the famous Rush and Division scene in Chicago during the early 2000's right after I got out of the Marines. A few thoughts:
Part of what makes a good bouncer is the ability to deescalate, which includes NOT allowing the drunk to control the course of the conversation. I interpret "quick comebacks" as responses along the lines of playing The Dozens, which is anything but deescalating. Staying calm, not swearing, and staying on topic: "It's time to go. Yeah, I'm sorry, but you have to go. I get it, we can discuss it outside, etc, etc" Not sure if this is "articulate," but it's minimal, and seems extremely simple for an angry drunk to understand.
Looking the part goes a long way. But staying clam might go further. A smaller bounced who shows no emotion is arguably more effective than a larger bouncer who starts yelling and cursing. At least before any punches are thrown.
The problem was half the bouncers were just as drunk by 3am as the average customer, and escalated situations as much or more than the customers did.
Most of the drama occurred at the door, when drunks were refused entry. From memory, the few physical altercations that happened inside were initiated by one or more of the bouncers. I honesty don't remember having to break up any fights between customers.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon
Salter said: “The best bouncers and doormen are articulate and quick with comebacks.” He also said: “Bouncers can all fight.” That seems true to me (i.e. not fallacious). What would be fallacious is to say: "people who are articulate and quick with comebacks are the best bouncers" as if that was the primary factor.
Two possible primary factors are ability to fight and physical presence (e.g. intimidation). Which is more important seems situational. If you are intimidating but can't fight you'll get away with it for a while, but that likely will end. If you can fight but aren't intimidating will probably have to fight some until your reputation is established. And even then will encounter new people. What other factors do people see?
You see the fallacious version of this sort of reasoning frequently with IQ and intellectual endeavors (where IQ = ability to fight in the analogy).Replies: @JimDandy, @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre
As far as fallacies goes, this caught my attention:
“But they rank each other by their talking ability. The lowest ranked fought the most. The highest ranked had the best social skills.”
That might be better categorized as “an outright lie that sounds cool and eye-opening” or “the delusions of an academic.” The kindest way of defining it would be, “an exaggeration.”
That might be better categorized as “an outright lie that sounds cool and eye-opening” or “the delusions of an academic.” The kindest way of defining it would be, “an exaggeration.”
My guess is that all of the bouncers can fight well. There is a certain amount of luck in any fight though. Good looking women and the men that spend money on them do not want to be in a place where there are fights every night. A bouncer who turns every dispute into a fight will eventually get his fellow bouncers hurt and repel big spending customers and the good looking women who they spend money on (who might also like bouncers).Replies: @JimDandy
Not only is it false but it is the little counter intuitive factoid the entire story hinges on.
Academics and authors spend inordinate amounts of time trying to manufacture counter intuitive hooks so that other people will write about their work.
1. Nikki Haley. She substantively had such strong answers that she looked like someone who could actually do the job of president Neoconservatism made its comeback last night, and Nikki Haley led the charge. Whether talking China, Israel, Ukraine, or Iran, she was crisp and confident. Her answer on abortion was thoughtful and seemed likely to connect with both primary and swing voters. If this were an actually competitive presidential nomination process, you’d be hard-pressed not to see Haley as far and away the most viable candidate for the general election. She certainly beat all the boys. Such as they were. The stylistic contrast between Ramaswamy has been a boon for her.
2. Ron Desantis. His best moment was early in the debate, when he made the case against Trump. He cannot escape the fact that it makes no real sense to try to run as a more competent Donald Trump, for the simple reason that the entire question of competence is orthogonal to Trump’s appeal. Just once, though, I’d like to see him debate without proposing a policy that violates the Constitution. He did nothing, however, to distinguish himself — or to slow the momentum of Nikki Haley, who has been gradually creeping up on him. So very, very hard to imagine him moving up to … anything.
3. Chris Christie. He was a little lower energy than usual. He deserves praise for his substantive, competent answers, but there’s not much of a market for that in the Republican primaries. It shows just how much the Republican Party has changed that Christie is viewed as more heretic than adherent. His reason for running was to thwart Trump.. When Christie isn’t running against Trump, one wonders why he runs at all.
4. Tim Scott. He’s right to emphasize rebuilding U.S. industry as a strategic necessity. His answers were filled with platitudes and wannabe sound bites that seemed ill suited to the moment. I’m not sure why Scott is still in the race. There’s no real appetite for the zombie Reaganism he displayed.
5. Vivek Ramaswamy. It’s actually uncanny how much he imitates the culture, positions and manners of right-wing Twitter trolls. If you’re gonna be the outspoken outsider, you have to be interesting as well as loud and irritating. He seemed to be running for most likely to get punched in the face.Replies: @Muggles, @Corpse Tooth, @Gandydancer
A surprisingly calm Tiny Duck today.
Has he been replaced by ChatGP AI?
Muggles, you've called it. He's now a ChatGPT.
Ron Unz, we need a filter to screen out AI.
Dan Henderson, on the other hand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IRlplbrZzAReplies: @JimDandy, @Twinkie, @Rick P
You’re either joking or have no idea what you’re talking about.
Dan Henderson knocked Bisping out, then had the awareness to dive in the air and land on an unconscious Bisping’s face with his forearm before the ref could stop the fight. One of the most brutal, raw acts of violence I’ve ever seen after years of watching UFC.Replies: @Twinkie
Off topic but…
Some feminist website called Jezebel announced it was shutting down and laid off it’s 23 paid “editorial staff.”
It had been part of some left/Woke media outfit issuing the Usual Propaganda.
This might be worth a separate iSteve posting.
Laid off staffers, as you might imagine, are all complaining about “unfairness” etc. though this decline had been foreseen. The Chief Harpy had resigned in August, with her many bitter complaints.
None of these new unemployables seems to have offered to buy Jezebel out and own the business for themselves. No, someone else has to pay.
With that many staffers this must have been a million dollar/year drain on someone’s trust fund.
Do any right-wing or libertarian media websites have 23 editorial paid staffers?
I guess the complaining feminist media grift isn’t what it used to be…
Has he been replaced by ChatGP AI?Replies: @New Dealer, @Anonymous
Tiny Duck’s entry was anomalous. It wasn’t brief, and it wasn’t wittingly or unwittingly silly.
Muggles, you’ve called it. He’s now a ChatGPT.
Ron Unz, we need a filter to screen out AI.
You mean those shitholes where they play the “Doof Doof” music all night long?
Gah. Who in their right minds would go there?
And why should they? Most of us want to go about our daily chores without being bothered by the fear that at any moment we may have to defend our right to exist in and through a violent confrontation with another. And for the most part we are free from that fear. But there's always a few assholes who for some reason seem to think that they will benefit from challenging someone around them and they seem to be lacking in a certain sense of judgement. They vastly overrate themselves and get themselves into trouble and end up humiliated. Which may not bother them that much.
When my car was rammed by a driver from behind and I took it into the body shop for repairs, the guy at the front desk told me that the same people showed up over and over with their battered cars.
"Really?!"
"Yes, really", he assured me.Replies: @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @Muse
What is this supposed to mean?
Salter said: “The best bouncers and doormen are articulate and quick with comebacks.” He also said: “Bouncers can all fight.” That seems true to me (i.e. not fallacious). What would be fallacious is to say: "people who are articulate and quick with comebacks are the best bouncers" as if that was the primary factor.
Two possible primary factors are ability to fight and physical presence (e.g. intimidation). Which is more important seems situational. If you are intimidating but can't fight you'll get away with it for a while, but that likely will end. If you can fight but aren't intimidating will probably have to fight some until your reputation is established. And even then will encounter new people. What other factors do people see?
You see the fallacious version of this sort of reasoning frequently with IQ and intellectual endeavors (where IQ = ability to fight in the analogy).Replies: @JimDandy, @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre
One has to wonder what scientific method Salter employed to arrive at these and other conclusions.
Some feminist website called Jezebel announced it was shutting down and laid off it's 23 paid "editorial staff."
It had been part of some left/Woke media outfit issuing the Usual Propaganda.
This might be worth a separate iSteve posting.
Laid off staffers, as you might imagine, are all complaining about "unfairness" etc. though this decline had been foreseen. The Chief Harpy had resigned in August, with her many bitter complaints.
None of these new unemployables seems to have offered to buy Jezebel out and own the business for themselves. No, someone else has to pay.
With that many staffers this must have been a million dollar/year drain on someone's trust fund.
Do any right-wing or libertarian media websites have 23 editorial paid staffers?
I guess the complaining feminist media grift isn't what it used to be...Replies: @JimDandy, @J.Ross
HUZZAH!!!!!!!!!
Decades ago the National Lampoon had a parody ad for learning the ancient martial art of the “I SUE!”
HANANIA: There was this pretty brunette who would occasionally come in. She was naturally above average looking, though you could tell that she put a lot of effort into her appearance too. At the same time, she had a sort of nervous personality; standoffish, not in the way where she thinks she’s better than other people, but rather deeply anxious. I felt like she always had to be looksmaxxing because life would be too unbearable if she did anything else. There was also this black guy who was a regular customer. He was very tall, and more noticeable for being muscular than fat, and always in workout clothes, either because he was always going to the gym when I saw him or that was just the way he dressed. He was laid back and jovial and I enjoyed talking to him.
One day their paths crossed. The brunette was walking towards the door to leave, and the big black guy was just coming in. He looked down at her and was like “Oh, hey…” like he was Barry White, as he slightly tripped over something. She looked up at him with fear in her eyes, a deer in the headlights, he laughed, and the girl quickly walked out right past him. Our black friend didn’t give it a second thought and then proceeded to greet me like he had every other time I ever saw him.
Most men are afraid of approaching women, likely for reasons that are evolutionarily rational but lead to maladaptive behavior in modern life. It’s easy to catastrophize, come up with sensible reasons why you shouldn’t try to talk to this particular woman at this particular moment, and to do the same thing next time, ad infinitum, until you go to your grave as a Darwinian dead end. And although no one will ever accuse me of being an Ibram Kendi, or even a Chatterton, I understand that black men hitting on white women might have extra reasons to be nervous, out of fears of social rejection and the potential for unusual levels of awkwardness alone even if the threat of interracial violence has gone down.
But my black friend didn’t care about any of that. Years later, I saw a clip of Alex Jones where he was encouraging his listeners to go hard fighting the globalists or whichever enemy he was fixated on that day, and said something along the lines of “You gotta be like a black guy hitting on girls, man. You’ve ever seen them? On to the next one, next one, next one.” I knew exactly what he was talking about, as would anyone who has lived around a large city in the midwest or south. Sometimes people accuse me of being anti-black because I’ll talk about crime statistics or whatever, but I’ve liked the vast majority of black people I’ve met, and found much to admire in their carefree attitude towards life. I grew up on gangsta rap, seeing it as a manifestation of some of the best attributes of black culture. My feelings about the art form became more nuanced as I grew older, but I still have the sense that most people in modern societies are pathologically risk averse and soft, and men in particular have a lot to learn from what has been one of the last repositories of older ideals of masculinity. I think mainstream American society would be better off learning from the ghetto than it would be learning from China, with its masked kindergartners and adults going through their lonely lives with crippling anxiety. One reason BLM offends me so much is that it maintains the more dysfunctional attitudes of the gangsta rap era — sympathy for criminals, oppositional and resentful attitudes towards white society, tribal simplicity — while doing away with its virtues, making black social consciousness more feminine and gay.
These two incidents helped me develop the ways in which I think about social anxiety, confidence, and why some people are happier than others. The most salient aspects of this worldview rely on facts that everyone understands, but you rarely see people appreciate the degree to which they should guide how we live...Replies: @Pentheus, @Anon, @Alden, @BB753
His glowing praise for the moronic culture cancer of gangsta rap, and preferring ghetto to Chinese are the most deeply idiotic repulsive thing I have read in a long time coming from someone touted as “right wing”.
Rap/hiphop is the black community’s big Fuck You to white and black shared mainstream traditional musical tradition of songcraft and performance talent.
It is all their children now hear growing up, right from the cradle, 24/7/365 including little kids’ birthday parties.
All the Will Smith type pop is for white people and is utterly unrepresentative of the vast majority of real rap as consumed by real blacks in the ‘Hood.
It is utterly homicidal against OTHER BLACKS, and literally pornographic in pitching woo to “bitches”. Feminists should denounce it as misogynist too but they are libs therefore liars about black reality that is nonliberal.
I have lived in black neighborhhods for 30 years, so don’t any of you trolls puke your puke about “stereotypes”.
This is FACT.
LOL. It's not anything to brag about, that's fo' sho', as your neighbors might say.
Has he been replaced by ChatGP AI?Replies: @New Dealer, @Anonymous
He’s known to copy and paste…
https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=31109#comment-377245
The other commenters there suspect a bot.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/5w8AAOSw9OpjGo19/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sEcAAOSwTC5jGo1-/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sEoAAOSwTC5jGo1~/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/N5MAAOSwBEpjGo2B/s-l1600.jpg
"Beat the Fucking Jew."
The times they are a-changing…
https://twitter.com/AYM_Higher_/status/1722471983823130635?s=20Replies: @MGB, @Colin Wright, @bomag
i can’t tell. is that a photograph of netanyahu?
No love here for Baltimore’s Violence Guy, James Lafond?
https://www.jameslafond.com/
Admittedly this is not bouncer fighting, it’s survive on the street fighting. Here he answers questions on knives.
https://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=14076
If it gets physical, the bouncers will almost always win. But even then, there's a lot of disruption, and any other patrons will likely get the impression "This is a violent place."
Most who get that impression will decide to go somewhere else. The few who like it - you don't really want them as patrons. They may spend a lot or a little, but they're likely looking for a fight.
And that's if there's no property damage and no other patrons end up involved.
A bouncer's primary job is to keep things quiet, so money keeps flowing.Replies: @Societal Spectacle
“A bouncer’s primary job is to keep things quiet, so money keeps flowing.”
“All you have to do is follow three simple rules. One, never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected. Two, take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it’s absolutely necessary. And three, be nice,” Dalton (Patrick Swayze).
The last paragraph as displayed at last refresh:
Then it turns into AI-derived fake news clickbait.
Fascinating example though of how values align on certain things, ie, everyone’s a eugenicist when his daughter is dating, even Democrats want to not have to pay their workers, and when you want to keep people out you want a big clever guy.
"Beat the Fucking Jew."
The times they are a-changing…
https://twitter.com/AYM_Higher_/status/1722471983823130635?s=20Replies: @MGB, @Colin Wright, @bomag
It’s a picture of Netanyahu, isn’t it? Would you consider attacks on an image of Hitler to be ‘beat the fucking German’?
I would say try not lying, but then you wouldn’t have much to say for your side, would you?
Btw, I don’t care about sorting out the fucking Palestinians, or the fucking Jews. It’s their problem.
It would just be nice if the administrators of UCLA would get control of their fucking university.Replies: @Anonymous
Some feminist website called Jezebel announced it was shutting down and laid off it's 23 paid "editorial staff."
It had been part of some left/Woke media outfit issuing the Usual Propaganda.
This might be worth a separate iSteve posting.
Laid off staffers, as you might imagine, are all complaining about "unfairness" etc. though this decline had been foreseen. The Chief Harpy had resigned in August, with her many bitter complaints.
None of these new unemployables seems to have offered to buy Jezebel out and own the business for themselves. No, someone else has to pay.
With that many staffers this must have been a million dollar/year drain on someone's trust fund.
Do any right-wing or libertarian media websites have 23 editorial paid staffers?
I guess the complaining feminist media grift isn't what it used to be...Replies: @JimDandy, @J.Ross
For a Camelot (used as a unit of time), when somebody said they had read something online which was insane enough to validate the Taliban, you knew they’d been to Jezebel. This position probably bled into and was overtaken by The View.
No discussion of bouncers would be complete without a reference to Robert Barrett’s picaresque Les Norton stories, about a nightclub bouncer in 1970s Sydney:
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/you-wouldnt-be-dead-for-quids-robert-g-barrett/1127529053
An Englishman handed me this book once with the description: “Here is an example of Australian culture. It’s about fighting, f**king, and FourEx Beer”. They are highly entertaining reads.
Has Nikki Haley expressed a policy position on immigration, the border, and deportation?
Or is she all about defending other countries?
Salter said: “The best bouncers and doormen are articulate and quick with comebacks.” He also said: “Bouncers can all fight.” That seems true to me (i.e. not fallacious). What would be fallacious is to say: "people who are articulate and quick with comebacks are the best bouncers" as if that was the primary factor.
Two possible primary factors are ability to fight and physical presence (e.g. intimidation). Which is more important seems situational. If you are intimidating but can't fight you'll get away with it for a while, but that likely will end. If you can fight but aren't intimidating will probably have to fight some until your reputation is established. And even then will encounter new people. What other factors do people see?
You see the fallacious version of this sort of reasoning frequently with IQ and intellectual endeavors (where IQ = ability to fight in the analogy).Replies: @JimDandy, @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre
Look at it from the other side though. Who is the bad guy? Probably a — you-know-what, who is setting out to fight a professional fight-ender in the first place because of deep insecurities, and almost guaranteed self-destructive tendencies or that term I can’t quite recall about habits predictive for success or the lack thereof.
Exactly the guy to be unhorsed by a gesture.
As a young guy I worked the door at a popular at the time bar in Faneuil Hall called Perry’s Saloon(Brutusale may remember it). On Monday nights it was slow and I might be the only guy there,although certain cooks and barbacks liked some action.
One Monday a group of Charlestown guys( pretty accurately portrayed in movies like The Town) are in there drinking heavy and the only other group was a half dozen young businessmen after work.It was only a matter of time before one of the Ctown guys suckered one of the white collar crew and that the math wasn’t in my favor.
I used the verbal proactive route.The most respected of the Ctown guys was a semi famous Boston hockey player from a now closed East Boston high-school. So I pulled him aside and admitted there was little I could do to stop the inevitable brawl but could he do me a favor and make sure it happened outside.He replied no problem and when it happened it was after last call outside.Always best to use words when possible!
Hey, I did it for three years and I really couldn’t fight, not to the degree that some of my coworkers could. I was just large and pretty strong, in addition to being the most articulate and relatable guy working there, which made me the point guy when dealing with assholes. I could usually talk them down.
It’s not bullshit. You don’t want a fight, and as long as they’re talking and not fighting, it’s giving time for the paid police detail the owner always had on Thursday through Sunday to get to where the trouble was. The issue with the mass of my colleagues was not just a varied supply of social skills, but the distance in their tiny little brains from talking to fighting.
Mine was an establishment that had live music and served copious amounts of alcohol to up to 800 people, almost exclusively aged 18-30. And let’s not even talk about what a lot of the patrons had in their bloodstream prior to entry.
Nobody was there for any sort of peaceful evening.
It's not bullshit. You don't want a fight, and as long as they're talking and not fighting, it's giving time for the paid police detail the owner always had on Thursday through Sunday to get to where the trouble was. The issue with the mass of my colleagues was not just a varied supply of social skills, but the distance in their tiny little brains from talking to fighting.Replies: @JimDandy
I did it a lot longer than you, and that guy’s statement is extremely reductive at best. I agree with your logic–which is what the guy was getting at–but there was no unwritten ranking system putting guys with good verbal skills at the top. Guys who could really handle themselves–as well as very big guys–were HIGHLY valued. Even more, dare I say, than silver-tongued devils like us.
Nobody was there for any sort of peaceful evening.Replies: @MGB
There’s bouncers and then there’s bouncers. It’s the business that sets the standard. Back in the early 80s when I first lived on my own most clubs let in underage customers but they’d get a different hand stamp than the legal drinkers. The club would serve booze all night to everyone and then bring in clown show rent a cops to throw out the underage drinkers about 30 minutes before closing, which would always touch off some unpleasantness.
I was a bouncer at a Copenhagen nightclub for a few months. The “talking ability” skill is the real arrow in the quiver. My Danish was a work in progress (still is) but the club drew in the foreign-born and English was the lingua franca. I’m tall and large and was trained in self-defense. Only once did I have to use it. The gift of gab came in handy.
You can’t stop with intriguing.
Sounds like he was offered the job, but didn't take it.
1. Nikki Haley. She substantively had such strong answers that she looked like someone who could actually do the job of president Neoconservatism made its comeback last night, and Nikki Haley led the charge. Whether talking China, Israel, Ukraine, or Iran, she was crisp and confident. Her answer on abortion was thoughtful and seemed likely to connect with both primary and swing voters. If this were an actually competitive presidential nomination process, you’d be hard-pressed not to see Haley as far and away the most viable candidate for the general election. She certainly beat all the boys. Such as they were. The stylistic contrast between Ramaswamy has been a boon for her.
2. Ron Desantis. His best moment was early in the debate, when he made the case against Trump. He cannot escape the fact that it makes no real sense to try to run as a more competent Donald Trump, for the simple reason that the entire question of competence is orthogonal to Trump’s appeal. Just once, though, I’d like to see him debate without proposing a policy that violates the Constitution. He did nothing, however, to distinguish himself — or to slow the momentum of Nikki Haley, who has been gradually creeping up on him. So very, very hard to imagine him moving up to … anything.
3. Chris Christie. He was a little lower energy than usual. He deserves praise for his substantive, competent answers, but there’s not much of a market for that in the Republican primaries. It shows just how much the Republican Party has changed that Christie is viewed as more heretic than adherent. His reason for running was to thwart Trump.. When Christie isn’t running against Trump, one wonders why he runs at all.
4. Tim Scott. He’s right to emphasize rebuilding U.S. industry as a strategic necessity. His answers were filled with platitudes and wannabe sound bites that seemed ill suited to the moment. I’m not sure why Scott is still in the race. There’s no real appetite for the zombie Reaganism he displayed.
5. Vivek Ramaswamy. It’s actually uncanny how much he imitates the culture, positions and manners of right-wing Twitter trolls. If you’re gonna be the outspoken outsider, you have to be interesting as well as loud and irritating. He seemed to be running for most likely to get punched in the face.Replies: @Muggles, @Corpse Tooth, @Gandydancer
Chris Christie appears beige on my TV. So that means the GOP is running four candidates Of Colour to defeat the orange guy.
I learned all about the bouncing game by watching ‘Roadhouse’
Fascinating example though of how values align on certain things, ie, everyone's a eugenicist when his daughter is dating, even Democrats want to not have to pay their workers, and when you want to keep people out you want a big clever guy.Replies: @Steve Sailer
What does NEWLN mean?
That’s for you to figure out!
https://hartmannreport.com/p/why-are-republicans-fiddling-while-9d5
Remember what you stated—Personally, I appreciate the right to criticize others, so it strikes me as only fair that I too am criticized. Over the years, I’ve learned a lot from all the personal criticism I’ve been subjected to, and it has made me more perceptive, insightful, and correct.
Put your words to the test.Replies: @Gandydancer
And is this "Salter" real or just a badly disguised "Sailer" alter-ego?Er... In my experience, 90% bouncers are inarticulate, low-IQ violent gorillas whom you want distance from. Preferably, by not frequenting nightclubs in the first place.Jane Goodall probably has better studies applicable to bouncers than this Salter/Sailer dude.Replies: @Pincher Martin
You mean, you think there are better ways to study bouncers than to study bouncers?
And if you actually read the article, which it is pretty clear you did not, you wouldn’t be dumb enough to believe that Salter and Sailer are the same person.
I don’t mind people are who rude, but could you at least be slightly entertaining and informative when being so?
b) I still don't see the relevance of posting without comment a news article of 20 years ago about bouncers which doesn't say anything useful or interesting or memorable (while ignoring other much more important stuff) but then again, I usually don't see the relevance of 50% of Sailer's posts. I'd rather read a book about chimpanzees by Jane Goodall, where at least I may learn something. And chimpanzees are more interesting and sympathetic subjects than bouncers.Replies: @bomag
Dan Henderson, on the other hand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IRlplbrZzAReplies: @JimDandy, @Twinkie, @Rick P
GSP curb-stomps 99% of human beings in a fight (it might even be more like 99.99%).
Don’t be fooled by “range restriction” – in this case against fellow elite cage fighters.
He did this to Matt Hughes, who was a HS wrestling champ in IL, placed as high as third in the country in college wrestling, and was a dominant early UFC champion:
Hendo had a granite chin and massive power with that right hand (no doubt boosted by years of documented synthetic testosterone use), but he had a very rudimentary game. He never used his Greco wrestling skills well and his striking offense was basically the left low kick, followed by that big right hand. When he ran into a very technical fighter, he was easily out-struck and beaten:
I don’t buy it that aggressive and loud drunks are dissuaded by a bouncer’s repartee but not by his size.
While I agree that many large men employed as bouncers are not trained to fight, and might quickly find themselves in trouble in a fight if they bounced the wrong guy, a size difference is a deterrence to most fights. These untrained large men would also be the first to lose confidence if it ever looked like they might have to fight someone who was near their size or who appeared competent and confident in taking them on.
Having said that, if I were a loud and aggressive drunk, I personally would be more worried by an average-sized bouncer than a large man because you know an average-sized guy is not getting the job to stop people at the door if he doesn’t know how to handle himself. My best friend in the Marine Corps was maybe 6 foot and 170 pounds, but held a regular job as a bouncer because he had a long list of martial arts and boxing accomplishments that he put on his resume.
And why should they? Most of us want to go about our daily chores without being bothered by the fear that at any moment we may have to defend our right to exist in and through a violent confrontation with another. And for the most part we are free from that fear. But there's always a few assholes who for some reason seem to think that they will benefit from challenging someone around them and they seem to be lacking in a certain sense of judgement. They vastly overrate themselves and get themselves into trouble and end up humiliated. Which may not bother them that much.
When my car was rammed by a driver from behind and I took it into the body shop for repairs, the guy at the front desk told me that the same people showed up over and over with their battered cars.
"Really?!"
"Yes, really", he assured me.Replies: @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @Muse
100%. I’m in my early 50’s and my training routine is not nearly as intense as it used to be, but I am still disciplined. I write about my diet and daily training routine here: https://www.unz.com/isteve/west-virginia-university/#comment-6123039
I’m a bit cranky right now, because my older sons are currently semi-cutting weight for their hydration test next week (wrestling season started) and, as usual, I cut weight with them in solidarity whenever they do so for wrestling, Judo, and BJJ.
Because it’s really fun?
Wrestling and Judo (or serious striking training with sparring or worse something like Kali, Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) are hard for unathletic adults to start, but BJJ is pretty low impact. I’ve never known anybody who started BJJ even as an older adult to regret it.
Losing and making weight take constant vigilance. It's amazing how much discipline young men can maintain. May your sons do well.
My sensei earned his third degree black belt at the Kodokan, in Japan. Needless to say, he was very good and thorough. I was never particularly good at throws, but was good on the mat, ne waza, mainly because of wrestling.
What I could never stand was being hit in the face, so boxing, karate, kick boxing etc. were a non starter for me. I would imagine that most men feel the same way. Besides preserving whatever decent looks we may have, most of want to protect what's in our skulls as well.
A real fight involves having one or more fingers bent backwards, knees to the balls, eye gouging and ear biting. While wrestling certainly won't hurt, it's not quite enough to counter these, as you said. But wrestlers know some dirty tricks as well, after all, they're the guys rolling around on the mat for hours at a time.
In my encounters, I've found, surprisingly enough, that a good judo throw was the beginning and end of the fight. It seems that few guys want to get up after landing hard on their back on pavement or a hard floor. It takes the fight right out of them. Of course, if things are really serious, you'd follow up a throw immediately with pummeling to the face, hopefully bouncing the back of their heads off the pavement to further befuddle them. But that hasn't been necessary so far. What amazed me was how my not particularly sterling throwing ability came through for me when the adrenalin was really pumping. I guess I'd learned something in three years in the dojo after all.
These modern guys are formidable fighters. Having mastered the best that boxing, kick fighting, grappling and judo have to offer, they are, regardless of weight class, dangerous adversaries. In high school, I wrestled—for fun—our all-state fullback, at 195, he outweighed me by 55 lbs. I beat him laughably easily—much to his frustration. Now I know that this doesn't generalize to someone in real life who is enraged etc. but it is suggestive. I believe that those mixed martial artists would destroy most civilians right on up the scale. A 70 kilo MMA would have no trouble with LeBron James. He'd be a big flopping dinosaur as he was being choked out after having been kicked in the nuts.
A great deal of bouncers are mostly just big guys which doesn’t necessarily mean they can fight. I pity bouncers, waitresses, and bartenders that have to deal with drunken assholes. More than likely the assholes starting trouble in bars can’t fight either so advantage to the big sober bouncer. Can you really talk down an asshole with something to prove? Maybe, but not often. And then you have bouncers looking for something to prove.
Geoff Thompson, some bouncer in England was terrified of physical confrontation despite being a trained martial artist, he became a bouncer to conquer his fears. Sometimes you wonder about these guys who write books about legendary stories while bouncing drunken assholes out the door. Geoff could be more myth than fact like MOST “martial artists.”
When Jack Dempsey owned a restaurant in NYC he wrote he often grew weary of idiots showing up to kick his ass. Lol. What sort of douchebag would think he could take out even a 40-50 something year old Dempsey. Actor Burt Reynolds recalled sitting at a bar with Rocky Marciano when a drunk staggered over and said he was going to kick Marciano’s ass. Marciano calmly told the drunk guy that he might could take him but he would rather buy him a drink. The drunk guy saved face literally. Marciano told Reynolds why beat the guy to a pulp instead he made a friend for life. IF you pick a fight with the wrong guy and come up permanently damaged, all charges against the victor should be dropped. HARSH or viciously assaulting words SHOULD have consequences. Society would be much more polite.
Don’t know, just reporting.
John Danaher once said that people misunderstand GSP’s “fear.” He said, “Georges isn’t afraid of his opponents or of fighting. He’s afraid of failing.”
I understand this well. One of my sons is an absolute wrecking ball on the mat (he ragdolls adults), but he tends to under-perform at actual tournaments. But he’s not afraid of his opponents (usually less skilled and physically less gifted than he) or the rough-and-tumble of competition. He’s a perfectionist and is constantly worried about not doing things “right.” He has a persistent fear of failure. I finally got a sport psychologist for him. It apparently worked for Georges (though Danaher argues against the efficacy of such therapy).
That physics student I knew in college who had one of the highest IQs in America worked as a bouncer when I knew him.
(He also worked as a bartender — and as nude model for art classes on campus. I knew him because he was dating a student I had dated the year before.)
My super-genius friend had been a Jewish nerd in Boulder High School, and he decided to rectify that by lifting weights and learning how to act stupid.
By the time he knew me, he was a funny muscle man working as a bouncer and coming home to our dorm after 2 am.
He was and is documented as having one of the highest IQs measured. He was a bouncer. Now he is a television writer in Steve’s neigborhood. I wouldn’t be surprised if Steve knew who he is.
GSP, the most boring, unimpressive, whiniest UFC fighter ever. Every match he would cut 30 lbs of water weight so he could fight guys smaller than him, then take them down over and over to win the match on points. GSP as a bouncer, lol, maybe in Canada.
Dan Henderson knocked Bisping out, then had the awareness to dive in the air and land on an unconscious Bisping’s face with his forearm before the ref could stop the fight. One of the most brutal, raw acts of violence I’ve ever seen after years of watching UFC.
Don't be fooled by "range restriction" - in this case against fellow elite cage fighters.
He did this to Matt Hughes, who was a HS wrestling champ in IL, placed as high as third in the country in college wrestling, and was a dominant early UFC champion:
https://youtu.be/9fS-m-bUCtM?si=s_yqtJvBLkgTtRBeHendo had a granite chin and massive power with that right hand (no doubt boosted by years of documented synthetic testosterone use), but he had a very rudimentary game. He never used his Greco wrestling skills well and his striking offense was basically the left low kick, followed by that big right hand. When he ran into a very technical fighter, he was easily out-struck and beaten:
https://youtu.be/tUChHfPheUI?si=1DaK3VpdnJzpOxnQReplies: @Pincher Martin
You’re being too generous to your respondent by just saying 99%. Your parenthetical is the better number.
Large untrained men wouldn’t stand a chance against GSP, while trained large men would still need a lot of training and a significant size advantage to make it a problem for him.
I once read an interview of John Kavanagh, who was and perhaps still is Conor McGregor’s BBJ and MMA trainer, in which he spoke about his days working as a bouncer. Kavanagh is just 5′ 8″ and weighed 155 pounds when he was fighting. He also bounced in Ireland, a country noted for both drunks and aggressive men who fight at the drop of a hat. But in retelling his history, he indicated he never had any problems beating up people who couldn’t take no for an answer, and he generally spoke with fondness of his days bouncing.
Kavanagh is a well-trained man, and he has experience fighting in MMA, but he is nowhere near the level of someone like GSP. He’s also somewhat slighter of stature.
Admittedly this is not bouncer fighting, it's survive on the street fighting. Here he answers questions on knives.
https://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=14076Replies: @Harry Baldwin
Decades ago I picked up for free a bunch of books from Paladin Press, AKA “The Man’s Adventure Library.” Of them, the only one that had really useful information was James LaFond’s The Logic of Steel. It even has a chapter on running away, which has some good tips. Working mostly as a shelf-stacker in a Baltimore supermarket, LaFond rubbed shoulders with a lot of low-lifes and got many accounts of knife fights. If he’s fallen on heard times, I’m sorry to hear it. He has a lot of books out, available on Amazon, but as anyone who has had books published knows, it’s not really a living.
Salter said: “The best bouncers and doormen are articulate and quick with comebacks.” He also said: “Bouncers can all fight.” That seems true to me (i.e. not fallacious). What would be fallacious is to say: "people who are articulate and quick with comebacks are the best bouncers" as if that was the primary factor.
Two possible primary factors are ability to fight and physical presence (e.g. intimidation). Which is more important seems situational. If you are intimidating but can't fight you'll get away with it for a while, but that likely will end. If you can fight but aren't intimidating will probably have to fight some until your reputation is established. And even then will encounter new people. What other factors do people see?
You see the fallacious version of this sort of reasoning frequently with IQ and intellectual endeavors (where IQ = ability to fight in the analogy).Replies: @JimDandy, @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre
“Good point. I am not sure it is a fallacy though. Perhaps a better way to get the point across is: “among people who are bouncers the best are those who are articulate and quick with comebacks.”
I bounced (they called it bar backing) at The Lodge and Shenanigan’s at the famous Rush and Division scene in Chicago during the early 2000’s right after I got out of the Marines. A few thoughts:
Part of what makes a good bouncer is the ability to deescalate, which includes NOT allowing the drunk to control the course of the conversation. I interpret “quick comebacks” as responses along the lines of playing The Dozens, which is anything but deescalating. Staying calm, not swearing, and staying on topic: “It’s time to go. Yeah, I’m sorry, but you have to go. I get it, we can discuss it outside, etc, etc” Not sure if this is “articulate,” but it’s minimal, and seems extremely simple for an angry drunk to understand.
Looking the part goes a long way. But staying clam might go further. A smaller bounced who shows no emotion is arguably more effective than a larger bouncer who starts yelling and cursing. At least before any punches are thrown.
The problem was half the bouncers were just as drunk by 3am as the average customer, and escalated situations as much or more than the customers did.
Most of the drama occurred at the door, when drunks were refused entry. From memory, the few physical altercations that happened inside were initiated by one or more of the bouncers. I honesty don’t remember having to break up any fights between customers.
* "Talk about false advertising the owners have clearly never been to a real bierkeller as there is nothing even slightly German about this place. Do not waste your hard earned cash, it is a complete rip off!! No authentic German beer (only four choices of beer available which included Becks and Blackthorn!!), the food is actually from the takeaway around the corner (literally received in the yellow takeaway boxes) and 'oompah' music which included tracks from Mary Poppins and Calamity Jane!! This is one of the worst places I have ever been to and I could not believe how blatantly awful it was."I wouldn't want to drink there every night, but that's what made it so good!https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g186220-d4419908-Reviews-or10-Bristol_Bierkeller-Bristol_England.htmlHere's a sample of the authentic German oompah music they played. "STEINS OFF THE DANCE FLOOR!"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fg7w49UnGA
IHow many small men have the skill set of GSP? I find it laughable when some 150lb McDojo “black belt” thinks they can can take out 98% of the population in a bar fight. A lot of big guys might not have skills or even a punch but dealing with an enraged 6’4″ 240lb athletic guy in his 20s has to be scary for anyone, even little 5’10” GSP.
Would you rather fight Tank Abbott or GSP? Haha. Abbott certainly doesn’t have or had the skills of GSP but fighting in a bar is not a sport. IF you are some munchkin bouncer at 5’8″ and a buck 55 you better be the best fighter on the planet. LMAO.
Of course if by "McDojo," you mean a martial art in which training is not based on realistic fighting, that's quite different.No. A large enraged untrained man, even if he was athletic, would not be a problem for GSP. He would handle them easily. In fact, such a large man most likely wouldn't even be a problem for your average brown belt at a reputable BBJ school. Training matters.But the thing you are leaving out is that Tank Abbott was trained. He was a serious wrestler and boxer, as well as being street fighter of note, before he ever got into MMA. He play-acted like he was just some thug off the street, but he had extensive training.
https://youtu.be/TCQ8rAbjOjI?si=b_Og9yHOyt74I-AkReplies: @Trinity, @Pincher Martin
Or is she all about defending other countries?Replies: @J.Ross
The saddest thing about Nikki Haley is that she is the Family Guy jab about “IX/XI, IX/XI, IX/XI,” only she hasn’t gotten that far, so she’s “Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan.”
If true, that is deeply silly and economically underperforming. There are definite “club culture” benefits in terms of atmosphere, and hence popularity and profit, from “curating” a club’s racial profile.
This was in Bavaria in 2001. There may not have been a lot of (or at least the same) racial minorities as in the US in the 2020s, don’t be too quick to make assumptions from your own experience.
No, most cops are former military personnel, where orders are followed or people die. It’s that simple, son. They follow orders or people die. Are we clear?
wow. i really have to be the first? from an actual documentary on the subject. it doesn’t get any more real than this. watch as this professional bouncer with 20 years of experience explains how it’s done.
“But they rank each other by their talking ability. The lowest ranked fought the most. The highest ranked had the best social skills.”
That might be better categorized as “an outright lie that sounds cool and eye-opening” or “the delusions of an academic.” The kindest way of defining it would be, “an exaggeration.”
My guess is that all of the bouncers can fight well. There is a certain amount of luck in any fight though. Good looking women and the men that spend money on them do not want to be in a place where there are fights every night. A bouncer who turns every dispute into a fight will eventually get his fellow bouncers hurt and repel big spending customers and the good looking women who they spend money on (who might also like bouncers).
Good points all, but I doubt rap would survive without all its wigger listeners.
HANANIA: There was this pretty brunette who would occasionally come in. She was naturally above average looking, though you could tell that she put a lot of effort into her appearance too. At the same time, she had a sort of nervous personality; standoffish, not in the way where she thinks she’s better than other people, but rather deeply anxious. I felt like she always had to be looksmaxxing because life would be too unbearable if she did anything else. There was also this black guy who was a regular customer. He was very tall, and more noticeable for being muscular than fat, and always in workout clothes, either because he was always going to the gym when I saw him or that was just the way he dressed. He was laid back and jovial and I enjoyed talking to him.
One day their paths crossed. The brunette was walking towards the door to leave, and the big black guy was just coming in. He looked down at her and was like “Oh, hey…” like he was Barry White, as he slightly tripped over something. She looked up at him with fear in her eyes, a deer in the headlights, he laughed, and the girl quickly walked out right past him. Our black friend didn’t give it a second thought and then proceeded to greet me like he had every other time I ever saw him.
Most men are afraid of approaching women, likely for reasons that are evolutionarily rational but lead to maladaptive behavior in modern life. It’s easy to catastrophize, come up with sensible reasons why you shouldn’t try to talk to this particular woman at this particular moment, and to do the same thing next time, ad infinitum, until you go to your grave as a Darwinian dead end. And although no one will ever accuse me of being an Ibram Kendi, or even a Chatterton, I understand that black men hitting on white women might have extra reasons to be nervous, out of fears of social rejection and the potential for unusual levels of awkwardness alone even if the threat of interracial violence has gone down.
But my black friend didn’t care about any of that. Years later, I saw a clip of Alex Jones where he was encouraging his listeners to go hard fighting the globalists or whichever enemy he was fixated on that day, and said something along the lines of “You gotta be like a black guy hitting on girls, man. You’ve ever seen them? On to the next one, next one, next one.” I knew exactly what he was talking about, as would anyone who has lived around a large city in the midwest or south. Sometimes people accuse me of being anti-black because I’ll talk about crime statistics or whatever, but I’ve liked the vast majority of black people I’ve met, and found much to admire in their carefree attitude towards life. I grew up on gangsta rap, seeing it as a manifestation of some of the best attributes of black culture. My feelings about the art form became more nuanced as I grew older, but I still have the sense that most people in modern societies are pathologically risk averse and soft, and men in particular have a lot to learn from what has been one of the last repositories of older ideals of masculinity. I think mainstream American society would be better off learning from the ghetto than it would be learning from China, with its masked kindergartners and adults going through their lonely lives with crippling anxiety. One reason BLM offends me so much is that it maintains the more dysfunctional attitudes of the gangsta rap era — sympathy for criminals, oppositional and resentful attitudes towards white society, tribal simplicity — while doing away with its virtues, making black social consciousness more feminine and gay.
These two incidents helped me develop the ways in which I think about social anxiety, confidence, and why some people are happier than others. The most salient aspects of this worldview rely on facts that everyone understands, but you rarely see people appreciate the degree to which they should guide how we live...Replies: @Pentheus, @Anon, @Alden, @BB753
Whites are more anxious because they often live in environments separated from their relatives. They are on their own out in the big wide world.
Blacks are less socially anxious because welfare allows them to spend their entire lives living close to their relatives. They always have their village around them, and it’s an emotional security net.
I bounced (they called it bar backing) at The Lodge and Shenanigan's at the famous Rush and Division scene in Chicago during the early 2000's right after I got out of the Marines. A few thoughts:
Part of what makes a good bouncer is the ability to deescalate, which includes NOT allowing the drunk to control the course of the conversation. I interpret "quick comebacks" as responses along the lines of playing The Dozens, which is anything but deescalating. Staying calm, not swearing, and staying on topic: "It's time to go. Yeah, I'm sorry, but you have to go. I get it, we can discuss it outside, etc, etc" Not sure if this is "articulate," but it's minimal, and seems extremely simple for an angry drunk to understand.
Looking the part goes a long way. But staying clam might go further. A smaller bounced who shows no emotion is arguably more effective than a larger bouncer who starts yelling and cursing. At least before any punches are thrown.
The problem was half the bouncers were just as drunk by 3am as the average customer, and escalated situations as much or more than the customers did.
Most of the drama occurred at the door, when drunks were refused entry. From memory, the few physical altercations that happened inside were initiated by one or more of the bouncers. I honesty don't remember having to break up any fights between customers.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon
I’ve been to the Lodge. It was my cousin’s favorite bar.
It's very cool, old school bar that attracts an older crowd. It was very popular with the 90's era Blackhawks from what I was told. The original owner, I forget his name, still managed the place most nights when I was working there.Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @JimDandy
I knew a bouncer who was about 5’ 9”, and weighed around 180. I called him, “The Littlest Bouncer” He never worked out, and his combat training was limited to a few lessons from his boxing-fan dad and watching a lot of MMA. He was good because he had a very deep, commanding voice that was loud when necessary, a calm demeanor, and an alpha attitude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8aNfg0LBgQReplies: @Trinity
Actually anything out of Hollywood is as unreal as it gets. Terry Funk (RIP) would stomp Patrick Swayze (RIP) into a mud hole in real life.
The Lodge is the flagship bar for The Lodge, Inc, the corporation that owns almost every single bar right there on Division: Shenanigans, Mothers, The Hang Up (used in About Last Night), Bootleggers and a few others.
It’s very cool, old school bar that attracts an older crowd. It was very popular with the 90’s era Blackhawks from what I was told. The original owner, I forget his name, still managed the place most nights when I was working there.
One bouncer handling an unruly customer like a boss.
The November 1995 issue of Esquire was titled “The Genius Issue.” The cover story, about extremely high-IQ people, was so fascinating I saved that issue and still have it. The bouncer you mention was profiled.
One of the things he told me during those late-night conversations in college was that his goal was to become famous. Shortly after telling me that, he got himself a cover story in the Westword tabloid in Denver. There on the cover of that free weekly was a full-page picture of him, nude from the waist up.
He is a good man with a good heart. I learned that during the time I knew him. I believe an individual's basic nature does not change, so I am sure he is still a good guy.
https://classic.esquire.com/issue/19991101
Article on their site.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a206/smartest-man-1199/
A text version.
http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/readingmaterial/esquirearticle.html
If you are interested in that sort of thing might want to take a look here or at the rest of that site.
http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/readingmaterial/refer.htmlReplies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Harry Baldwin
It’s a spectrum. The average black belt jujitsu really could beat up 99% of the men he encountered in a bar. But, yeah, put him up against a man who was quite large and had a little training – and it might be a problem for him.
Of course if by “McDojo,” you mean a martial art in which training is not based on realistic fighting, that’s quite different.
No. A large enraged untrained man, even if he was athletic, would not be a problem for GSP. He would handle them easily. In fact, such a large man most likely wouldn’t even be a problem for your average brown belt at a reputable BBJ school. Training matters.
But the thing you are leaving out is that Tank Abbott was trained. He was a serious wrestler and boxer, as well as being street fighter of note, before he ever got into MMA. He play-acted like he was just some thug off the street, but he had extensive training.
People whom misfortune seems to dog, attract it. That goes whether talking about people who get into altercations for which they are ill prepared or car accidents. Misfortune favors the brash.
That might be better categorized as “an outright lie that sounds cool and eye-opening” or “the delusions of an academic.” The kindest way of defining it would be, “an exaggeration.”
My guess is that all of the bouncers can fight well. There is a certain amount of luck in any fight though. Good looking women and the men that spend money on them do not want to be in a place where there are fights every night. A bouncer who turns every dispute into a fight will eventually get his fellow bouncers hurt and repel big spending customers and the good looking women who they spend money on (who might also like bouncers).Replies: @JimDandy
Well, I’m not guessing, and I’m calling bullshit on the flat statement that all bouncers are “good fighters” and thus they are ranked by their ability to verbally talk down a situation. False dichotomies are being thrown around–a giant badass who simply says very little (and doesn’t try to start fights) is oftentimes much more valuable than the used car salesman type. This conversation is kind of silly, actually. For instance, “bars” are not monolithic, and the type of bouncer a high-class cocktail establishment wants is a lot different than the type of person a biker-bar owner is looking for.
Well, I’m not guessing, and I’m calling bullshit on the flat statement that all bouncers are “good fighters” and thus they are ranked by their ability to verbally talk down a situation.
This conversation is kind of silly, actually. For instance, “bars” are not monolithic, and the type of bouncer a high-class cocktail establishment wants is a lot different than the type of person a biker-bar owner is looking for.Perhaps I should have been more specific JimDandy. I was not talking about all bouncers but the ones in the kind of bar described in the article. See description below. I have never drunk in a biker owned bar and have no ambition to do so.Replies: @JimDandy
It's very cool, old school bar that attracts an older crowd. It was very popular with the 90's era Blackhawks from what I was told. The original owner, I forget his name, still managed the place most nights when I was working there.Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @JimDandy
I like it when you and Steve have a normal back-and-forth, which happens on occasion—usually you’re rippling him with 20 mike mike mike Vulcan. Interesting that you both grew up in the Valley and live(d) in Chicago. It’s like you’re his estranged younger brother from another mother or something. 🙂
Fun fact about my head coach - Rich Lawson - later went on to be the hc of Malibu HS, and Brian Bozworth was his assistant.
and I like Steve, I've just become frustrated with his take on certain things.
I'm a bit cranky right now, because my older sons are currently semi-cutting weight for their hydration test next week (wrestling season started) and, as usual, I cut weight with them in solidarity whenever they do so for wrestling, Judo, and BJJ.Because it's really fun?
Wrestling and Judo (or serious striking training with sparring or worse something like Kali, Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) are hard for unathletic adults to start, but BJJ is pretty low impact. I've never known anybody who started BJJ even as an older adult to regret it.Replies: @ThreeCranes
I loved wrestling and judo.
Losing and making weight take constant vigilance. It’s amazing how much discipline young men can maintain. May your sons do well.
My sensei earned his third degree black belt at the Kodokan, in Japan. Needless to say, he was very good and thorough. I was never particularly good at throws, but was good on the mat, ne waza, mainly because of wrestling.
What I could never stand was being hit in the face, so boxing, karate, kick boxing etc. were a non starter for me. I would imagine that most men feel the same way. Besides preserving whatever decent looks we may have, most of want to protect what’s in our skulls as well.
A real fight involves having one or more fingers bent backwards, knees to the balls, eye gouging and ear biting. While wrestling certainly won’t hurt, it’s not quite enough to counter these, as you said. But wrestlers know some dirty tricks as well, after all, they’re the guys rolling around on the mat for hours at a time.
In my encounters, I’ve found, surprisingly enough, that a good judo throw was the beginning and end of the fight. It seems that few guys want to get up after landing hard on their back on pavement or a hard floor. It takes the fight right out of them. Of course, if things are really serious, you’d follow up a throw immediately with pummeling to the face, hopefully bouncing the back of their heads off the pavement to further befuddle them. But that hasn’t been necessary so far. What amazed me was how my not particularly sterling throwing ability came through for me when the adrenalin was really pumping. I guess I’d learned something in three years in the dojo after all.
These modern guys are formidable fighters. Having mastered the best that boxing, kick fighting, grappling and judo have to offer, they are, regardless of weight class, dangerous adversaries. In high school, I wrestled—for fun—our all-state fullback, at 195, he outweighed me by 55 lbs. I beat him laughably easily—much to his frustration. Now I know that this doesn’t generalize to someone in real life who is enraged etc. but it is suggestive. I believe that those mixed martial artists would destroy most civilians right on up the scale. A 70 kilo MMA would have no trouble with LeBron James. He’d be a big flopping dinosaur as he was being choked out after having been kicked in the nuts.
There’s a guy named Chris Langan who is said to have one of the highest IQ’s ever and who also worked as a bouncer. They say he has an alt right following.
Thanks. I was born in Chicago and moved to the SFV when I was 10 – a couple days after the Challenger exploded and the Bears won their only SB. My high school was Steve’s high school biggest football rival at the time (mostly because our head coach had been an assistant there, IIRC).
Fun fact about my head coach – Rich Lawson – later went on to be the hc of Malibu HS, and Brian Bozworth was his assistant.
and I like Steve, I’ve just become frustrated with his take on certain things.
Did Joe Biden tell another story of how he bounced Corn Pop out of the pool?
“Guys who could really handle themselves–as well as very big guys–were HIGHLY valued.”
When a fist collides with someone’s teeth, cuts and abrasions are inevitable. You’re not going to handle yourself nearly as well after a few years if you’ve racked up MRSA, STD’s, and a couple of flavors of hepatitis in the meantime from all those brief but impactful bodily-fluid transfers, no matter how inconsequential they seemed at the time.
If there’s any way you can talk a guy down, do it. And remember, the ones who won’t let themselves be talked down are more likely to have exercised other poor lifestyle choices that makes the probability that their blood is a biohazard significantly higher. That’s not a risk/reward ratio you want to be on the wrong side of.
It's very cool, old school bar that attracts an older crowd. It was very popular with the 90's era Blackhawks from what I was told. The original owner, I forget his name, still managed the place most nights when I was working there.Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @JimDandy
The Hangge Uppe is a circle of hell.
Yeah, I agree. That’s not really what I was talking about, though.
Yet no one mentions the baby elephant in the room, Mark Zuckerberg. Is this guy really starting a later in life career as a MMA fighter? Will he work as a bouncer if Meta goes bankrupt? Is Meta the reason for his delusion that training to be any kind of fighter at his age and size is a good idea?
I say we keep encouraging Zuckerberg to fight hard, and fight often.
Is it ever too late to start?
It’s a classic counter intuitive hook. Or as the newspaper guys would call it man bites dog story.
Not only is it false but it is the little counter intuitive factoid the entire story hinges on.
Academics and authors spend inordinate amounts of time trying to manufacture counter intuitive hooks so that other people will write about their work.
I've read this happened to be an NBA player and the NBA now warns rookies about things like this at an orientation.
Not the same level of $$ involved but my nephew was in officer training before shipping off to Afghan and was warned that the local townies regarded it as a great money opportunity to get knocked up by an officer passing through.Replies: @rushed boob job
i knew a young local townie mormon girl who got herself knocked up by heisman frat boy leinart and perpetually bad clipper blake griffin. as randy moss said it best…”straight cash homie!”
a) it was a (bad) joke
b) I still don’t see the relevance of posting without comment a news article of 20 years ago about bouncers which doesn’t say anything useful or interesting or memorable (while ignoring other much more important stuff) but then again, I usually don’t see the relevance of 50% of Sailer’s posts. I’d rather read a book about chimpanzees by Jane Goodall, where at least I may learn something. And chimpanzees are more interesting and sympathetic subjects than bouncers.
I like this post, with the discussion of when to talk; when to fight; and the utility of each.
I would say try not lying, but then you wouldn't have much to say for your side, would you?Replies: @Anonymous
Why don’t you watch it again. I wasn’t going by the effigy of Netanyahu as much as the person yelling “beat that fucking Jew.”
Btw, I don’t care about sorting out the fucking Palestinians, or the fucking Jews. It’s their problem.
It would just be nice if the administrators of UCLA would get control of their fucking university.
9/11 should have taught you that it is your problem.Replies: @Jim Don Bob
Scientists have concluded that you only need *one* head concussion to get the Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, or other dementia ball rolling. One concussion in high school is plenty enough for you to begin to lose your marbles starting in your sixties. Sometimes even earlier.
I say we keep encouraging Zuckerberg to fight hard, and fight often.
Dan Henderson knocked Bisping out, then had the awareness to dive in the air and land on an unconscious Bisping’s face with his forearm before the ref could stop the fight. One of the most brutal, raw acts of violence I’ve ever seen after years of watching UFC.Replies: @Twinkie
Are you one of those “Just bang, bro!” types?
Not a fan of weight classes, rounds and decisions. Fighters should win by submission or knockout.
I’d be much more worried about fighting TRT Vitor than Tank Abbott:
“…and pat on cue he comes, like the catastrophe o’ th’old comedy.”
King Lear, I.ii
Yeah, I knew a crew of bouncers back in the old days: one was a former member of the Bulgarian Olympic wrestling team, another was an Ivy League doctoral student in engineering. They used to sneak me into nightclubs I never could have gotten into under my own steam, and also all the fun (and non-fun) after-hours joints like Save the Robots. PRO TIP: a lot of after-hours clubs are pathetic, they run on drearily into the afternoon the following day, and mainly consist of sad-sacks who Just Don’t Want to Go Home. They smell of the same desperation as the horrible gambling clubs in that movie “Rounders”. I developed a strong distaste for that sort of thing in my teens, which probably saved me a lot of grief in the long run.
On the other hand, sometimes you wake up on the floor of a place like Danceteria or the Lounge with an 80s Madonna lookalike on top of you, it puts a wee bit of hair on yer chest, laddie.
What I noticed about the bouncers I knew (these guys were enforcers, not the door guys) was that they worked in a curiously ruthless pattern:
1. try firmly but sensibly to reason with a troublemaker;
2. if this does not work, form a human wall and swarm implacably.
A certain amount of Mack Sennett style physical comedy did result, ’tis true. But stay out of after-hours joints: as they say, Nothing good ever happens in a bar after 3 AM.
I bounced (they called it bar backing) at The Lodge and Shenanigan's at the famous Rush and Division scene in Chicago during the early 2000's right after I got out of the Marines. A few thoughts:
Part of what makes a good bouncer is the ability to deescalate, which includes NOT allowing the drunk to control the course of the conversation. I interpret "quick comebacks" as responses along the lines of playing The Dozens, which is anything but deescalating. Staying calm, not swearing, and staying on topic: "It's time to go. Yeah, I'm sorry, but you have to go. I get it, we can discuss it outside, etc, etc" Not sure if this is "articulate," but it's minimal, and seems extremely simple for an angry drunk to understand.
Looking the part goes a long way. But staying clam might go further. A smaller bounced who shows no emotion is arguably more effective than a larger bouncer who starts yelling and cursing. At least before any punches are thrown.
The problem was half the bouncers were just as drunk by 3am as the average customer, and escalated situations as much or more than the customers did.
Most of the drama occurred at the door, when drunks were refused entry. From memory, the few physical altercations that happened inside were initiated by one or more of the bouncers. I honesty don't remember having to break up any fights between customers.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon
“A smaller bouncer who shows no emotion is arguably more effective than a larger bouncer who starts yelling and cursing.”
At the late lamented Bristol Bierkeller, a deliberately inauthentic* and tacky bar where what we called “industrial throwing lager” was served in 2-litre plastic steins and stag and hen parties went to misbehave, the head bouncer was about five foot five, had an expressionless face and gave off the vibe that hurting people was pleasure, not business.
He seemed to be able to stop trouble very easily with a few words (though the phalanx of bruisers at his back didn’t hurt).
* “Talk about false advertising the owners have clearly never been to a real bierkeller as there is nothing even slightly German about this place. Do not waste your hard earned cash, it is a complete rip off!! No authentic German beer (only four choices of beer available which included Becks and Blackthorn!!), the food is actually from the takeaway around the corner (literally received in the yellow takeaway boxes) and ‘oompah’ music which included tracks from Mary Poppins and Calamity Jane!! This is one of the worst places I have ever been to and I could not believe how blatantly awful it was.”
I wouldn’t want to drink there every night, but that’s what made it so good!
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g186220-d4419908-Reviews-or10-Bristol_Bierkeller-Bristol_England.html
Here’s a sample of the authentic German oompah music they played.
“STEINS OFF THE DANCE FLOOR!”
Not necessarily, I’m huge fan of Royce Gracie and how he submitted much larger opponents like shamrock, severin and kimo in the first four UFCs. Also was a fan of Coleman and his ground and pound. My favorite fighters were Fedor, Tank Abbott and Lesnar.
Not a fan of weight classes, rounds and decisions. Fighters should win by submission or knockout.
LOL
Militarization of the cops is a huge problem in this country.
Low IQ cannon fodder who are following orders of politicians are the last type of people we need policing.
But some of you love the taste of government boot leather down your throat.
I ignored the crap about a rating system. Utter shyte. You knew who had your back and that’s what earned your respect. But a good de-escalator can help you go home at 2 in the morning without various abrasions and contusions.
The guy who owned the club was a totally wired-in townie who had a great relationship with the local gendarmes. Word got around shortly after the club opened that the beating the cops would give you out back after you were ejected from the club wasn’t worth acting up for.
Hey, it was the late 70s. People were still held responsible for their actions.
None of which matters when you have guys determined to start something. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
As BostonVegas hints, Greater Boston is full of pretty tough hockey players. White, predominately Irish, and a lot used to beatings from various friends and relatives in their insular neighborhoods. They’re close to normal size when compared to other athletes, and they were a pain in the ass! I remember one night when I was with friends at a show on the Northeastern University campus, and former NU hockey player and NHL psychopath Chris Nilan was involved in fights too numerous to count over the course of the evening. The Boston University campus bar, the Dugout, never had many issues because most of the staff were BU hockey players!
I would never work door today. Weapons, Negroes, and a total lack of personal responsibility make me wonder how anyone does it now.
https://youtu.be/TCQ8rAbjOjI?si=b_Og9yHOyt74I-AkReplies: @Trinity, @Pincher Martin
Abbott had minimal wrestling knowledge, ( wasn’t a division 1 wrestler or anything but he had wrestled), SOME boxing TRAINING, no actual fight experience, but not much and he would take fights on a week notice.
Victor was juiced to the gills in this one. Tank trained sure but he didn’t train it like a full time job. Vitor was on his back very briefly and in a scenario outside of a cage he couldn’t have been stomped in the face and no amount of training helps there. Abbott had more losses than wins but his wins were brutal highlight reels and like the announced stated the victor in Tank Abbott’s losses often went to the hospital while Abbott went to the bar. Tanks prime given his lifestyle was very short and this looks like a post prime Tank vs. Vitor and Tank was NEVER in shape. Victor in his absolute prime, juiced to the gills, early 20’s vs a 30 something past it and totally out of shape Abbott who probably was called into to substitute for some injured fighter.on 2 weeks notice? That was a quick victory but not a beat down at all.
a floundering past his prime Tank with a few taps?? Not exactly an epic victory for Mcdojo guys.Replies: @Mike Tre
The end of days is here if Tiny Duck and Nikki Haley are in convergence.
Abbott had a rather less than optimal record of something like 11-15 or something against all these trained masters of self defense despite never taking training seriously, always carrying too much extra baggage, taking fights on short notice, etc. and a drinking habit that destroyed his liver. Abbott’s early success, ( while in his prime, he first fought at 29 in the Octagon) PROVED that even elite world class “martial.artist” can be beat down by a brute with a solid punch and limited wrestling skills. Look what Dan Severn was even more one dimensional than Tank. Just an OUTSTANDING world class wrestler with brutal strength acquired from wrestling not the weight room. A 20 something roided Vitor “beating”
a floundering past his prime Tank with a few taps?? Not exactly an epic victory for Mcdojo guys.
Can you figure this out? We need your honest NOTICINGS.
https://hartmannreport.com/p/why-are-republicans-fiddling-while-9d5
Remember what you stated—Personally, I appreciate the right to criticize others, so it strikes me as only fair that I too am criticized. Over the years, I’ve learned a lot from all the personal criticism I’ve been subjected to, and it has made me more perceptive, insightful, and correct.
Put your words to the test.
I agree completely. I also found that another excellent deescalation tactic was to radio for the 6 foot 7 320 pound slab of muscle to just kinda walk up to the argument like, “Hey, guys, how’s it going?”
My friend was good at getting publicity for himself.
One of the things he told me during those late-night conversations in college was that his goal was to become famous. Shortly after telling me that, he got himself a cover story in the Westword tabloid in Denver. There on the cover of that free weekly was a full-page picture of him, nude from the waist up.
He is a good man with a good heart. I learned that during the time I knew him. I believe an individual’s basic nature does not change, so I am sure he is still a good guy.
Jews are really good at telling stories.
Fighting with bouncers (or cops) is a losing proposition. As a matter of fact, when you are a full-grown man, fighting in general is a losing proposition. Long ago I advised my big, tough, namesake nephew who was getting in “physical altercations” that he had better get control of his temper or he would end up dead or in jail. Defend yourself but otherwise, let the world go by.
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2023/11/10/Online-womens-blog-Jezebel-suspends-operations/7761699594637/Is there an online version of Salter's paper anywhere? My clubbing days are over, but I imagine that the basics of bouncing won't have changed too much - though probably stab and bullet-proof vests are now the norm.Replies: @res
Not sure of Steve’s source. The earliest reference I see is this 1997 book. Review mentioning doormen linked.
Emotions in Command: A Naturalistic Study of Institutional Dominance
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4236323
This 2005 paper (Steve’s article was from 2001) is related and is available on SciHub.
Sex differences in negotiating with powerful males : An ethological analysis of approaches to nightclub doormen
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26189753/
Is that real? 2022 “fact check” claims otherwise:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-kyle-rittenhouse-the-view-abc-677910767107
And this looks like satire.
https://usapress.info/kyle-rittenhouse-registers-a-lien-against-whoopi-goldbergs-malibu-home-for-22-million
Looks like the original settled lawsuit claim was satire as well.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-view-settles-rittenhouse-22-million/
Thanks. Looks like it was November 1999.
https://classic.esquire.com/issue/19991101
Article on their site.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a206/smartest-man-1199/
A text version.
http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/readingmaterial/esquirearticle.html
If you are interested in that sort of thing might want to take a look here or at the rest of that site.
http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/readingmaterial/refer.html
https://classic.esquire.com/issue/19991101
Article on their site.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a206/smartest-man-1199/
A text version.
http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/readingmaterial/esquirearticle.html
If you are interested in that sort of thing might want to take a look here or at the rest of that site.
http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/readingmaterial/refer.htmlReplies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Harry Baldwin
Sorry, res, but I don’t think that 1999 article is it.
I looked back myself, just now for the same reason you did, and it appears that Esquire has published more than one article or issue with that theme over the years.
I just read the 1999 article to which you linked, and it definitely does not describe my friend.
I am reluctant to just say who he is, for reasons of privacy.
No matter. Obviously there are many such examples of high IQ people.
https://youtu.be/TCQ8rAbjOjI?si=b_Og9yHOyt74I-AkReplies: @Trinity, @Pincher Martin
Trinity should keep in mind, too, that Belfort’s statute is just 6’0″. The Brazilian is a HW in the clip (and juiced to the gills), but he has fought as low as middleweight (185 pounds), the same division in which GSP fought his final fight.
Given that GSP cut a lot of weight to fight at 170, I suspect there isn’t a significant size difference between him and Belfort when they aren’t preparing for a fight.
The weight cutting in the UFC is a bit ridiculous. Khabib would cut 30 pounds for the official weigh in and then put quite a bit of it back on before the fight. Steroids are one thing but fighting 10-15 pounds over the weight class limit is just as much of an advantage. Khabib, like a lot of fighters cut so much because he'd get killed in the light heavyweight division.
Belfort gets a ton of heat for his steroid use, but a large part of that was because he had lame excuses for it that were obvious lies. He wasn't the only guy by a long shot.
I'd say pre 2010 90% of the top tier UFC fighters were using banned substances. Maybe it's not as high now but you still see guys like Michael Chandler or Francis Ngannou and there's no way they're not using HGH. Tank Abbott says he never used PED's. I don't believe him. I'd guess that almost all of them are using EPO.Replies: @Pincher Martin
Well, I’m not guessing, and I’m calling bullshit on the flat statement that all bouncers are “good fighters” and thus they are ranked by their ability to verbally talk down a situation.
This conversation is kind of silly, actually. For instance, “bars” are not monolithic, and the type of bouncer a high-class cocktail establishment wants is a lot different than the type of person a biker-bar owner is looking for.
Perhaps I should have been more specific JimDandy. I was not talking about all bouncers but the ones in the kind of bar described in the article. See description below. I have never drunk in a biker owned bar and have no ambition to do so.
You mention that nearly every post. It sounds like you’re proud of that fact.
LOL. It’s not anything to brag about, that’s fo’ sho’, as your neighbors might say.
GSP was easily 200 pounds for his role in Captain America 2.
The weight cutting in the UFC is a bit ridiculous. Khabib would cut 30 pounds for the official weigh in and then put quite a bit of it back on before the fight. Steroids are one thing but fighting 10-15 pounds over the weight class limit is just as much of an advantage. Khabib, like a lot of fighters cut so much because he’d get killed in the light heavyweight division.
Belfort gets a ton of heat for his steroid use, but a large part of that was because he had lame excuses for it that were obvious lies. He wasn’t the only guy by a long shot.
I’d say pre 2010 90% of the top tier UFC fighters were using banned substances. Maybe it’s not as high now but you still see guys like Michael Chandler or Francis Ngannou and there’s no way they’re not using HGH. Tank Abbott says he never used PED’s. I don’t believe him. I’d guess that almost all of them are using EPO.
Abbott’s Achilles heel was gassing out. I believe he took the Beltor fight on a couple days notice. Belfort was how old for the Abbott fight? Early 20’s? Age plays a significant role as well. Most bar/ street fights are over in seconds or minute or two. The Belfort vs Abbott fight was really not much of a fight. It showcased the hand speed of Belfort, not much else. Most MMA fighters are not on the same level as boxers when it comes to punching power. Which brings us to people saying Francis Ngannaho beat Tyson Fury. Anyone who knows boxing had a grossly out of shape and bored Fury taking 7 rounds in that farce.
I think the result in that fight was less about age than Tank's lack of serious preparation and diet. To be fair, this was in early days when a career in MMA was still not a serious proposition because the money was small and the events often hastily thrown together. Tank was great at promotion for the time, but when he later faced fighters who took their training and diet a lot more seriously than him, he routinely lost.
There's also no shame in getting caught. A lot better fighters than Tank have been surprised by Vitor's punching speed and power.
Some guy about 5’8″ or so but heavily built used to kick ass in MMA/ kickboxing, or whatever, Melvin Manhoef was his name. Little guy was explosive and powerful, these are the type of ” little men” who can and do win against bigger men in a street fight or fight in a bar. I believe Manhoef even fought guys in the heavyweight division. His record is loaded with knockouts. A MMA/kickboxing version of Mike Tyson.
Well, I’m not guessing, and I’m calling bullshit on the flat statement that all bouncers are “good fighters” and thus they are ranked by their ability to verbally talk down a situation.
This conversation is kind of silly, actually. For instance, “bars” are not monolithic, and the type of bouncer a high-class cocktail establishment wants is a lot different than the type of person a biker-bar owner is looking for.Perhaps I should have been more specific JimDandy. I was not talking about all bouncers but the ones in the kind of bar described in the article. See description below. I have never drunk in a biker owned bar and have no ambition to do so.Replies: @JimDandy
Ok, great, but was this academic studying the tiny number of bouncers who work in the most exclusive spots in the world where they don’t even use the term “bouncers” or was he studying bouncers?
a floundering past his prime Tank with a few taps?? Not exactly an epic victory for Mcdojo guys.Replies: @Mike Tre
Early in the UFC Severn refused to throw strikes. He later changed that approach much to his benefit.
Btw, I don’t care about sorting out the fucking Palestinians, or the fucking Jews. It’s their problem.
It would just be nice if the administrators of UCLA would get control of their fucking university.Replies: @Anonymous
If you are an American, you have already involved yourself, in a massive way, on the side of the zionist jews. $10 billion in annual funding to “israel” and its neighbors, your military put at the service of the jews for the last 25 years at least, unlimited diplomatic support. Blood on your hands.
9/11 should have taught you that it is your problem.
C'mon, people. Stay focused.
https://classic.esquire.com/issue/19991101
Article on their site.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a206/smartest-man-1199/
A text version.
http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/readingmaterial/esquirearticle.html
If you are interested in that sort of thing might want to take a look here or at the rest of that site.
http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/readingmaterial/refer.htmlReplies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Harry Baldwin
Thank you for the correction, that is the article I recall. Great cover photo of Charlize Theron in her prime.
The weight cutting in the UFC is a bit ridiculous. Khabib would cut 30 pounds for the official weigh in and then put quite a bit of it back on before the fight. Steroids are one thing but fighting 10-15 pounds over the weight class limit is just as much of an advantage. Khabib, like a lot of fighters cut so much because he'd get killed in the light heavyweight division.
Belfort gets a ton of heat for his steroid use, but a large part of that was because he had lame excuses for it that were obvious lies. He wasn't the only guy by a long shot.
I'd say pre 2010 90% of the top tier UFC fighters were using banned substances. Maybe it's not as high now but you still see guys like Michael Chandler or Francis Ngannou and there's no way they're not using HGH. Tank Abbott says he never used PED's. I don't believe him. I'd guess that almost all of them are using EPO.Replies: @Pincher Martin
I largely agree with your post, but Khabib fought at LW (155 pounds) for most of his career and when he did go up to fight at 170 (WW) he was still undefeated. I’m not sure why you think he would ever fight at 205 (LHW).
Vitor had just turned 20 when he fought Tank, who was 32 at the time.
I think the result in that fight was less about age than Tank’s lack of serious preparation and diet. To be fair, this was in early days when a career in MMA was still not a serious proposition because the money was small and the events often hastily thrown together. Tank was great at promotion for the time, but when he later faced fighters who took their training and diet a lot more seriously than him, he routinely lost.
There’s also no shame in getting caught. A lot better fighters than Tank have been surprised by Vitor’s punching speed and power.
Tank was an All-American wrestler in Junior College. That’s more wrestling experience and talent than 99.9% of American men. Before you laugh, keep in mind that Jon Jones had nearly identical wresting credentials when he entered MMA (except where Tank was just an All-American JC wrestler, Jones was a Junior College champion).
So Tank was not just a large, belligerent drunk who fell off a barstool into the Octagon. He knew a lot about fighting, both grappling and striking. Was he great at either of those things? No. But there were some of those “toughest guys from their town” who entered those events in those days who had some training in martial arts and got their asses absolutely whipped by Tank because they couldn’t handle his size and ferocity and because they didn’t have enough quality training to counter Tank’s lack of high-level skill.
But nearly every really good fighter Tank faced beat him.
Abbott was a tremendous puncher. He rocked Don Frye with a jab. IMO, and the opinion of others, punches are born not made. Tank “lost” to some guys only on paper, Frye being one of them. No way I am mocking Abbott, that guy was a monster. All the training in the world will not bless someone with the punching power of someone like Tank Abbott. Abbott had skills but his biggest attributes were amazing punching power and strength. Abbott is probably one of the few MMA guys who had world class power in their punches.
Yes, Tank had natural gifts, but doesn’t everybody?
Do you believe anyone can develop hand speed like Vitor just by training? I sure don’t.
Do you believe GSP is such a freak athlete because he trains all the time? I don’t.
So, yes, Tank had natural gifts. His punching power was impressive. But he did not get the most out of those talents because he did not train nearly as hard as other professional fighters.
BTW, Tank spent nearly eighteen minutes in the Octagon, much of it on the ground, with submission specialist Oleg Taktarov before he was submitted. You can’t do that with just innate talent.
*****
Our discussion of MMA began because of the topic of bouncers. Ironically, the old standard of a bouncer back in the eighties, when I was young, was best fit by someone like Tank Abbott than by most mixed martial artists today. He was large, imposing, confident, and had some fight training in the gym, but was also quite comfortable splitting your head open in the street.
Nowadays there is too much liability and too many cameras around for an employer to trust the likes of a loose cannon like Abbott on his payroll, and so most bouncers seem far more polite and composed than they once were. Or maybe they are just politer because I’m older.
Now, don’t get me wrong, some guys are born with incredible punching power. But with correct mechanics, you can learn to generate considerable power. What’s more, correct timing and angling - and especially if you can induce a collision between an advancing opponent and your fist/elbow/knee/foot - can create seemingly effortless KOs. Classic example (of what’s called Sen-no-Sen in Japanese):
https://youtu.be/7ah1YxnrKw4?si=jdub3q9K7B981T_-
I’ve dropped a fair number of guys in sparring and fights with a check hook (though most of the fights I won were done with a throw, as I have trained in Judo for 40+ years and that’s my comfort zone)
In any case, hand speed like Vitor’s is God-given. You can’t really develop that with training (though you can make up by developing other attributes such as timing). BJ Penn also had extremely quick reflexes and very fast hands. Having tasted those in the first fight with Penn, GSP relied on lots of feints to overload Penn’s nervous system in the second fight:
https://youtu.be/seIMSzBBxqI?si=IM0zDtPriTr2U9YnReplies: @Pincher Martin, @Pincher Martin, @Sean
Most boxing trainers will tell you that you can teach power, but you can’t teach speed.
Now, don’t get me wrong, some guys are born with incredible punching power. But with correct mechanics, you can learn to generate considerable power. What’s more, correct timing and angling – and especially if you can induce a collision between an advancing opponent and your fist/elbow/knee/foot – can create seemingly effortless KOs. Classic example (of what’s called Sen-no-Sen in Japanese):
I’ve dropped a fair number of guys in sparring and fights with a check hook (though most of the fights I won were done with a throw, as I have trained in Judo for 40+ years and that’s my comfort zone)
In any case, hand speed like Vitor’s is God-given. You can’t really develop that with training (though you can make up by developing other attributes such as timing). BJ Penn also had extremely quick reflexes and very fast hands. Having tasted those in the first fight with Penn, GSP relied on lots of feints to overload Penn’s nervous system in the second fight:
In the clip above Ryan Bader helps Lyoto's power by rushing in to engage. That's a clear no-no when you're fighting someone who knows how to strike. So why did Bader do it? Because like many people who fought Machida, he was frustrated by his inability to hit the man. Machida baits his opponents by controlling the distance and using his speed to land points without much risk to himself. He uses that speed that GSP talks about in your second clip.
Machida was also extremely patient. He didn't take many risks. He wants his opponents (like Bader) to take the risks. That's why so many of Machida fights were extremely dull for much of the contest. He was always waiting, waiting, waiting for the right moment, and some of his opponents are naturally leery of giving him that moment. So the crowds started to boo, wondering why there wasn't any action.
I didn't see the second fight Machida/Bader fight in Bellator, which Bader won by decision, but I imagine the wrestler had learned his lesson from the first fight. Don't rush Lyoto because it won't end well for you.
*****
But as to the topic of raw natural punching power ... my bet would be that Bader has more of it than Lyoto. Hook both men up to one of those machines that measures punching power and have them throw a standing punch with nothing more than hip torque, and my guess would be that Bader's is harder.
What that machine couldn't measure, however, is the punching power Machida generates by taking two quick steps in at his opponent and striking him with an overhand or straight right from a distance. He did this effectively even against Jon Jones in the first round of their fight. The machine also couldn't measure how much additional power is created when an opponent's face (like Bader's) rushes in to meet a punch.
*****
I was always told that a basic punch's power comes from 1) hip & shoulder torque, 2) hand speed, and 3) the size of the fist. Learning to properly move your hips when punching can be trained, but some people are just naturally better at it. Hand speed is far less trainable. The size of your fist no one can control. Some guys just have big mittens.
In MMA, even some of the guys with incredible raw punching power and who had trained standup (like Dan Henderson or Tank Abbott) still often looked clumsy when punching because they did something no solid professional boxer would do. They torqued their hips too much, causing them to lose their balance. This made them vulnerable to counters and takedowns.
I always knew B. J. Penn had incredible power, but until Nick Diaz said after their fight (which Diaz won) that "even B. J.'s arm punches hurt," I never realized how much power. When you can throw arm punches and still hurt a professional opponent, you have genuine God-given punching power.Replies: @Twinkie
All of the men above are capable of knocking an opponent out with their hands, but none of them are what I would call heavy hitters.
GSP's jab was one of the most effective standup weapons in all of MMA. He would just batter his opponent's face (and eyes) for five rounds if that is what it took to win the fight. Jabs don't look like much, but anyone who's trained in boxing knows how hard they are to do effectively for even just one minute. Your arm gets tired quickly. GSP could do them for 25 minutes off fighting.
Only hard and extensive training could do that. Throwing a jab continually is not a natural ability.
https://youtu.be/i8tFzvA0kAw?si=sS9U7mYhC4p3mtbF
The Diaz brothers show how effective multiple light punches can be at devastating your opponent without the need to load up on any of them. Their kind of attack, however, is only effective if you can also take a punch and you have wicked cardio. Neither brother had one-punch knockout power, but they put to sleep many tough opponents with their volume and different angles of attack. Their strikes to their opponents' body late in fights were particularly devastating.
Only hard and extensive training could do that. Setting a punch up with combinations is not a natural ability.
https://youtu.be/kqQNkXDwII4?si=ToNcfCDW7FSC579a
I've already written above about Lyoto and Stephen Thompson's gift of controlling distance and striking speed. This kind of standup, like GSP's jab, is how to train if you don't want to sit in the pocket like the Diaz brothers and get hit. But you need natural speed and/or length. It's not a surprise that both Machida and Thompson have trained hard since they were kids.
God help you if you are have the Apolipoprotein E epsilon4 gene and spar.Replies: @Twinkie
“I’m not sure why you think he would ever fight at 205 (LHW). ”
I’m not sure I implied that. I’m pointing out the way fighters game the system in order to give themselves an advantage. Khabib’s “walk around” weight is reported to have been 190. He was never 155lbs when he actually stepped into the octagon (not that his opponent necessarily was either, but Khabib’s weight cuts were always considered more extreme than anyone else’s). There was a lot of controversy about his official weigh in weight for his last fight. He was also hospitalized and had to cancel a fight due to his cutting.
Khabib never fought at Welterweight. He had some catchweight bouts but retired as UFC lightweight champion.
"Beat the Fucking Jew."
The times they are a-changing…
https://twitter.com/AYM_Higher_/status/1722471983823130635?s=20Replies: @MGB, @Colin Wright, @bomag
Goes into the category of “import a people; import their practices; import their conflicts.”
b) I still don't see the relevance of posting without comment a news article of 20 years ago about bouncers which doesn't say anything useful or interesting or memorable (while ignoring other much more important stuff) but then again, I usually don't see the relevance of 50% of Sailer's posts. I'd rather read a book about chimpanzees by Jane Goodall, where at least I may learn something. And chimpanzees are more interesting and sympathetic subjects than bouncers.Replies: @bomag
A large part is the interaction in the comments; let’s one see what others count as important.
I like this post, with the discussion of when to talk; when to fight; and the utility of each.
Agree.
Sounds like he was offered the job, but didn’t take it.
Interesting, but one path builds societies everyone wants to line in; the other builds societies everyone wants to avoid.
Elon Musk was famously excluded from a German club, which led to a triumphant German pop song about it, by the band Von Wegen Lisbeth.
Now, don’t get me wrong, some guys are born with incredible punching power. But with correct mechanics, you can learn to generate considerable power. What’s more, correct timing and angling - and especially if you can induce a collision between an advancing opponent and your fist/elbow/knee/foot - can create seemingly effortless KOs. Classic example (of what’s called Sen-no-Sen in Japanese):
https://youtu.be/7ah1YxnrKw4?si=jdub3q9K7B981T_-
I’ve dropped a fair number of guys in sparring and fights with a check hook (though most of the fights I won were done with a throw, as I have trained in Judo for 40+ years and that’s my comfort zone)
In any case, hand speed like Vitor’s is God-given. You can’t really develop that with training (though you can make up by developing other attributes such as timing). BJ Penn also had extremely quick reflexes and very fast hands. Having tasted those in the first fight with Penn, GSP relied on lots of feints to overload Penn’s nervous system in the second fight:
https://youtu.be/seIMSzBBxqI?si=IM0zDtPriTr2U9YnReplies: @Pincher Martin, @Pincher Martin, @Sean
I loved watching Lyoto Machida fight, but it seems to me that his power came from both his natural speed and knowing how to control the distance between him and his opponent as well as anyone in the fight game. (Stephen Thompson is another guy who comes to mind who fights like this, although he wasn’t as smooth or as powerful as Lyoto.)
In the clip above Ryan Bader helps Lyoto’s power by rushing in to engage. That’s a clear no-no when you’re fighting someone who knows how to strike. So why did Bader do it? Because like many people who fought Machida, he was frustrated by his inability to hit the man. Machida baits his opponents by controlling the distance and using his speed to land points without much risk to himself. He uses that speed that GSP talks about in your second clip.
Machida was also extremely patient. He didn’t take many risks. He wants his opponents (like Bader) to take the risks. That’s why so many of Machida fights were extremely dull for much of the contest. He was always waiting, waiting, waiting for the right moment, and some of his opponents are naturally leery of giving him that moment. So the crowds started to boo, wondering why there wasn’t any action.
I didn’t see the second fight Machida/Bader fight in Bellator, which Bader won by decision, but I imagine the wrestler had learned his lesson from the first fight. Don’t rush Lyoto because it won’t end well for you.
*****
But as to the topic of raw natural punching power … my bet would be that Bader has more of it than Lyoto. Hook both men up to one of those machines that measures punching power and have them throw a standing punch with nothing more than hip torque, and my guess would be that Bader’s is harder.
What that machine couldn’t measure, however, is the punching power Machida generates by taking two quick steps in at his opponent and striking him with an overhand or straight right from a distance. He did this effectively even against Jon Jones in the first round of their fight. The machine also couldn’t measure how much additional power is created when an opponent’s face (like Bader’s) rushes in to meet a punch.
*****
I was always told that a basic punch’s power comes from 1) hip & shoulder torque, 2) hand speed, and 3) the size of the fist. Learning to properly move your hips when punching can be trained, but some people are just naturally better at it. Hand speed is far less trainable. The size of your fist no one can control. Some guys just have big mittens.
In MMA, even some of the guys with incredible raw punching power and who had trained standup (like Dan Henderson or Tank Abbott) still often looked clumsy when punching because they did something no solid professional boxer would do. They torqued their hips too much, causing them to lose their balance. This made them vulnerable to counters and takedowns.
I always knew B. J. Penn had incredible power, but until Nick Diaz said after their fight (which Diaz won) that “even B. J.’s arm punches hurt,” I never realized how much power. When you can throw arm punches and still hurt a professional opponent, you have genuine God-given punching power.
This is what I meant earlier by "inducing a collision."
And if opponents didn't bite and didn't press forward? He'd spring the Shotokan Karate blitz (bringing back foot forward right behind the front foot and then blitzing forward with the front step, which hides the forward movement compared to the conventionally taught front step first).Replies: @Anonymous
Now, don’t get me wrong, some guys are born with incredible punching power. But with correct mechanics, you can learn to generate considerable power. What’s more, correct timing and angling - and especially if you can induce a collision between an advancing opponent and your fist/elbow/knee/foot - can create seemingly effortless KOs. Classic example (of what’s called Sen-no-Sen in Japanese):
https://youtu.be/7ah1YxnrKw4?si=jdub3q9K7B981T_-
I’ve dropped a fair number of guys in sparring and fights with a check hook (though most of the fights I won were done with a throw, as I have trained in Judo for 40+ years and that’s my comfort zone)
In any case, hand speed like Vitor’s is God-given. You can’t really develop that with training (though you can make up by developing other attributes such as timing). BJ Penn also had extremely quick reflexes and very fast hands. Having tasted those in the first fight with Penn, GSP relied on lots of feints to overload Penn’s nervous system in the second fight:
https://youtu.be/seIMSzBBxqI?si=IM0zDtPriTr2U9YnReplies: @Pincher Martin, @Pincher Martin, @Sean
To me, some of the people who demonstrate how effective standup training can be are NOT the heavy hitters. They are instead fighters like GSP, the Diaz brothers, Lyoto Machida, and Stephen Thompson.
All of the men above are capable of knocking an opponent out with their hands, but none of them are what I would call heavy hitters.
GSP’s jab was one of the most effective standup weapons in all of MMA. He would just batter his opponent’s face (and eyes) for five rounds if that is what it took to win the fight. Jabs don’t look like much, but anyone who’s trained in boxing knows how hard they are to do effectively for even just one minute. Your arm gets tired quickly. GSP could do them for 25 minutes off fighting.
Only hard and extensive training could do that. Throwing a jab continually is not a natural ability.
The Diaz brothers show how effective multiple light punches can be at devastating your opponent without the need to load up on any of them. Their kind of attack, however, is only effective if you can also take a punch and you have wicked cardio. Neither brother had one-punch knockout power, but they put to sleep many tough opponents with their volume and different angles of attack. Their strikes to their opponents’ body late in fights were particularly devastating.
Only hard and extensive training could do that. Setting a punch up with combinations is not a natural ability.
I’ve already written above about Lyoto and Stephen Thompson’s gift of controlling distance and striking speed. This kind of standup, like GSP’s jab, is how to train if you don’t want to sit in the pocket like the Diaz brothers and get hit. But you need natural speed and/or length. It’s not a surprise that both Machida and Thompson have trained hard since they were kids.
9/11 should have taught you that it is your problem.Replies: @Jim Don Bob
How did we get from bouncers to Jews?
C’mon, people. Stay focused.
Now, don’t get me wrong, some guys are born with incredible punching power. But with correct mechanics, you can learn to generate considerable power. What’s more, correct timing and angling - and especially if you can induce a collision between an advancing opponent and your fist/elbow/knee/foot - can create seemingly effortless KOs. Classic example (of what’s called Sen-no-Sen in Japanese):
https://youtu.be/7ah1YxnrKw4?si=jdub3q9K7B981T_-
I’ve dropped a fair number of guys in sparring and fights with a check hook (though most of the fights I won were done with a throw, as I have trained in Judo for 40+ years and that’s my comfort zone)
In any case, hand speed like Vitor’s is God-given. You can’t really develop that with training (though you can make up by developing other attributes such as timing). BJ Penn also had extremely quick reflexes and very fast hands. Having tasted those in the first fight with Penn, GSP relied on lots of feints to overload Penn’s nervous system in the second fight:
https://youtu.be/seIMSzBBxqI?si=IM0zDtPriTr2U9YnReplies: @Pincher Martin, @Pincher Martin, @Sean
Sparring is in a great many cases where the brain damage accumulates from. Why would anyone spar unless they are training as part of a career in the professional realm? And nowadays even some pro boxers don’t believe in sparring.
God help you if you are have the Apolipoprotein E epsilon4 gene and spar.
So, I no longer train seriously in striking, but when I was younger and stupider, I had many rounds of hard sparring, including in Muay Thai and boxing. I've been shin-kicked flush in my jaw and dropped. But the worst concussion I ever had was a Judo match where I was thrown hard and - instead of accepting the throw and losing - I tried to brace and spin out of it to prevent scoring and ended up snapping one of my arms the wrong way and then landing head first.
I have no memory of it, but I saw it later on tape.
Well, you know, combat sports ain't bean bags, so there are chances of injury or even death (in Japan, Judo is in the school system and kids die every year from being smashed into the mat).So, you can drill a lot. And much of the gains comes from light sparring, say, 50-60% in speed and power, where you can work on your timing, distance management, angles, etc. But once in a while, you do have to do hard sparring rounds to get used to the intensity of a real fight. If you only do drills and light sparring, you are liable to get overwhelmed by the intensity and ferocity of certain type of fighters. That doesn't mean you have to "just bang" during hard sparring, but even learning to manage the initial intensity of "muggers" (opponents who come out guns blazing and try to overwhelm you and get a quick finish - and this applies to MMA, boxing, Judo, etc.) and slow them down where you can "dance" requires the occasional hard sparring.
That all said, I'd totally train differently if I knew back when I was younger what I know now (I've had multiple concussions, neck injuries, torn shoulders, most recently my right from my eldest son who tore my rotator cuff, damage to the wrists and elbows, most of my finger joints are screwed up from Judo and BJJ gripping, lower spine injury, hip injuries, and multiple knee and ankle injuries, including ACL and MCL tears. Also broke a shin once. And all my toes were broken and never healed right). And I certainly apply that experience and knowledge to my sons' training. They have not had any serious injury in years, except for one neck-shoulder labrum tear (he was out six months of training).Because you want to get better.
It’s hilarious when he copy pastes posts with contradictory biographical info. He’s been gay, lesbian, married, single, black, white, teacher, nurse.
Khabib never fought at WW in the UFC, but he did fight at that weight in several of his pre-UFC fights back between 2009 and 2011. (I assume the weight classes in his previous promotions had the same weight ranges as does the UFC.)
I don’t know much about weight cutting personally, but I’m told that it is hard to master when you need to do it in such as way as to not give up any strength and endurance for your fight. So if Khabib could make an extreme weight cut and still easily beat wrestlers who have been cutting weight since they began competing, more power to him.
He had a somewhat different game back then. His takedowns were almost all just diving for that single leg and persisting like a dog with a bone. He tried the same in his first couple of matches in the UFC and had some troubles. Kamal Shalrous was a decorated Iranian wrestler and Gleison Tibau almost beat Khabib.
After that he joined AKA in San Jose and began to rely much more on upper body throws and foot sweeps:
https://youtu.be/lAVP4s8eo8U?si=xY-bylZzKwf0BNZIReplies: @Pincher Martin
I’ve been in a barfight. Pretty confident it was the real deal, chairs were thrown. I didn’t lose but neither did anyone else, the whole thing was a wash. I didn’t care for it.
On that rare evening when I go out one of my priorities is “no fighting”. Hard to think of anything more important.
In my limited experience strip clubs hire bouncers who are so morbidly obese that they are barely mobile paperweights at the door. I find behaving nicely and following the rules makes the whole experience more pleasant.
Here’s the thing about Negroes: They all think they can box, and they all think they can play basketball. In that regard, Negroes be stupid an’ sheet.
And why should they? Most of us want to go about our daily chores without being bothered by the fear that at any moment we may have to defend our right to exist in and through a violent confrontation with another. And for the most part we are free from that fear. But there's always a few assholes who for some reason seem to think that they will benefit from challenging someone around them and they seem to be lacking in a certain sense of judgement. They vastly overrate themselves and get themselves into trouble and end up humiliated. Which may not bother them that much.
When my car was rammed by a driver from behind and I took it into the body shop for repairs, the guy at the front desk told me that the same people showed up over and over with their battered cars.
"Really?!"
"Yes, really", he assured me.Replies: @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @Muse
Not a fighter, nor a military guy, and I do not have violent tendencies. Yet I do find the topic interesting. There is a YouTube channel entitled Soft White Underbelly that has a plethora of interviews with very interesting, typically deviant or unfortunate people. This includes all types of drug addicts, various odd sexual behaviors, gambling, prostituion etc. After two or three alcoholics and meth addicts, you have seen them all, but the organized criminals are the people I find fascinating and completely foreign. Especially when you compare them to the strutting peacocks that get pumped up and buff, and look for fights in bars or on the street. The murderers for hire are ice cold. Completely different animals.
"What?"
Anyone who goes looking for a fight is beyond idiotic. That night couldn't be over soon enough for me. I didn't want anything to do with a guy like that.
We don't need to look for trouble, it will find us. Till then, get ready. Learn skills. Work hard. Become strong. Avoid idiots.
I enjoyed your comment. I'll look at the YouTube channel.Replies: @Jim Don Bob
In the clip above Ryan Bader helps Lyoto's power by rushing in to engage. That's a clear no-no when you're fighting someone who knows how to strike. So why did Bader do it? Because like many people who fought Machida, he was frustrated by his inability to hit the man. Machida baits his opponents by controlling the distance and using his speed to land points without much risk to himself. He uses that speed that GSP talks about in your second clip.
Machida was also extremely patient. He didn't take many risks. He wants his opponents (like Bader) to take the risks. That's why so many of Machida fights were extremely dull for much of the contest. He was always waiting, waiting, waiting for the right moment, and some of his opponents are naturally leery of giving him that moment. So the crowds started to boo, wondering why there wasn't any action.
I didn't see the second fight Machida/Bader fight in Bellator, which Bader won by decision, but I imagine the wrestler had learned his lesson from the first fight. Don't rush Lyoto because it won't end well for you.
*****
But as to the topic of raw natural punching power ... my bet would be that Bader has more of it than Lyoto. Hook both men up to one of those machines that measures punching power and have them throw a standing punch with nothing more than hip torque, and my guess would be that Bader's is harder.
What that machine couldn't measure, however, is the punching power Machida generates by taking two quick steps in at his opponent and striking him with an overhand or straight right from a distance. He did this effectively even against Jon Jones in the first round of their fight. The machine also couldn't measure how much additional power is created when an opponent's face (like Bader's) rushes in to meet a punch.
*****
I was always told that a basic punch's power comes from 1) hip & shoulder torque, 2) hand speed, and 3) the size of the fist. Learning to properly move your hips when punching can be trained, but some people are just naturally better at it. Hand speed is far less trainable. The size of your fist no one can control. Some guys just have big mittens.
In MMA, even some of the guys with incredible raw punching power and who had trained standup (like Dan Henderson or Tank Abbott) still often looked clumsy when punching because they did something no solid professional boxer would do. They torqued their hips too much, causing them to lose their balance. This made them vulnerable to counters and takedowns.
I always knew B. J. Penn had incredible power, but until Nick Diaz said after their fight (which Diaz won) that "even B. J.'s arm punches hurt," I never realized how much power. When you can throw arm punches and still hurt a professional opponent, you have genuine God-given punching power.Replies: @Twinkie
Machida liked to set up traps. One of his favorites was to take two steps back and angle away one more step. Do this enough times and some of his opponents would get annoyed and would take “just one more step” forward in their attacks in order to reach him. Now, though, instead of angling away one last step, Machida would come forward and throw his lunging left straight, which becomes an intercepting (hence “Sen-No-Sen”) punch that clothesline opponents who end up running into it.
This is what I meant earlier by “inducing a collision.”
And if opponents didn’t bite and didn’t press forward? He’d spring the Shotokan Karate blitz (bringing back foot forward right behind the front foot and then blitzing forward with the front step, which hides the forward movement compared to the conventionally taught front step first).
This is what I meant earlier by "inducing a collision."
And if opponents didn't bite and didn't press forward? He'd spring the Shotokan Karate blitz (bringing back foot forward right behind the front foot and then blitzing forward with the front step, which hides the forward movement compared to the conventionally taught front step first).Replies: @Anonymous
Aren’t you worried about brain damage to you and your sons from all of this fighting?
God help you if you are have the Apolipoprotein E epsilon4 gene and spar.Replies: @Twinkie
Hard sparring, yes.
So, I no longer train seriously in striking, but when I was younger and stupider, I had many rounds of hard sparring, including in Muay Thai and boxing. I’ve been shin-kicked flush in my jaw and dropped. But the worst concussion I ever had was a Judo match where I was thrown hard and – instead of accepting the throw and losing – I tried to brace and spin out of it to prevent scoring and ended up snapping one of my arms the wrong way and then landing head first.
I have no memory of it, but I saw it later on tape.
Well, you know, combat sports ain’t bean bags, so there are chances of injury or even death (in Japan, Judo is in the school system and kids die every year from being smashed into the mat).
So, you can drill a lot. And much of the gains comes from light sparring, say, 50-60% in speed and power, where you can work on your timing, distance management, angles, etc. But once in a while, you do have to do hard sparring rounds to get used to the intensity of a real fight. If you only do drills and light sparring, you are liable to get overwhelmed by the intensity and ferocity of certain type of fighters. That doesn’t mean you have to “just bang” during hard sparring, but even learning to manage the initial intensity of “muggers” (opponents who come out guns blazing and try to overwhelm you and get a quick finish – and this applies to MMA, boxing, Judo, etc.) and slow them down where you can “dance” requires the occasional hard sparring.
That all said, I’d totally train differently if I knew back when I was younger what I know now (I’ve had multiple concussions, neck injuries, torn shoulders, most recently my right from my eldest son who tore my rotator cuff, damage to the wrists and elbows, most of my finger joints are screwed up from Judo and BJJ gripping, lower spine injury, hip injuries, and multiple knee and ankle injuries, including ACL and MCL tears. Also broke a shin once. And all my toes were broken and never healed right). And I certainly apply that experience and knowledge to my sons’ training. They have not had any serious injury in years, except for one neck-shoulder labrum tear (he was out six months of training).
Because you want to get better.
Yup. Early in his career in Russia.
He had a somewhat different game back then. His takedowns were almost all just diving for that single leg and persisting like a dog with a bone. He tried the same in his first couple of matches in the UFC and had some troubles. Kamal Shalrous was a decorated Iranian wrestler and Gleison Tibau almost beat Khabib.
After that he joined AKA in San Jose and began to rely much more on upper body throws and foot sweeps:
He had a somewhat different game back then. His takedowns were almost all just diving for that single leg and persisting like a dog with a bone. He tried the same in his first couple of matches in the UFC and had some troubles. Kamal Shalrous was a decorated Iranian wrestler and Gleison Tibau almost beat Khabib.
After that he joined AKA in San Jose and began to rely much more on upper body throws and foot sweeps:
https://youtu.be/lAVP4s8eo8U?si=xY-bylZzKwf0BNZIReplies: @Pincher Martin
I would’ve liked to have seen Khabib take on more American-style wrestlers. If he had gone up to 170, he would’ve faced plenty. At 155, there just weren’t that many to face. Tibau is a big boy for the weight class and a highly competent wrestler, but he’s not a top wrestler.
Probably the most accomplished wrestler Khabib faced in the UFC was Justin Gaethje, and Justin barely uses his wrestling at all in MMA. He’s a stand-and-bang kind of fighter.
When Khabib entered the UFC in 2012, the 170-pound division was filled with high-quality MMA wrestlers: GSP, Josh Koscheck, Johny Hendricks, Jake Shields, Jon Fitch, etc. Some of these guys had other skills, but with the exception of Hendricks, who turned out to be a flash in the pan, they all relied primarily on their grappling. A couple of them (Shields & Fitch) relied almost exclusively on it. And even Hendricks, who liked to stand and bang, I don’t see getting tossed around by anyone.
I think Khabib would’ve done pretty well against that 170-pound competition, but he certainly would’ve been challenged a lot more than he was at 155. Everything I heard coming out of San Jose said he did well grappling larger men. But training is not competition.
Here are my thoughts on that.
First of all, weight classes are there for a reason. 15 lbs. is a pretty big difference in wrestling. I suspect Khabib would have done well against most at 170, but who knows? It’d been very interesting to see a fight between him and GSP at 170.
Second, the reason Khabib struggled with Shalrous and Tibau was precisely because he, at the time, had a type of diving-for-leg style wrestling that was very familiar to American wrestlers and BJJers (whose no. 1. takedown is the single leg). Paradoxically, even though Khabib hails from Dagestan in Russia, his early style was very similar to American folk wrestling.
Third, as I mentioned before, after he switched camps to AKA in San Jose, his wrestling became much more “Judo-like,” utilizing lots of upper body (esp. body lock) throws and leg/foot trips. This style tends to throw American wrestlers off in general, because this is less common in American folk wrestling than it is in freestyle (where throws to back are highly rewarded at 4 points) or Greco (Greco has no leg attacks at all, so it’s all upper body).
When he fought Abel Trujillo who was NAIA All-American four times in collegiate wrestling, he set a new record for takedowns:
Daniel Cormier (LHW/HW) is on record as stating that Khabib would hand-fight very well against him, for whatever that’s worth.
BTW, funny clip with Daniel Cormier and Islam Makhachev goofing around a bit, start at 1:05 mark:
Cormier: Hey, Khabib, I wrestled against the best Russian wrestlers in the world. This guy [Islam] is a junior varsity, this does not work… [Just as Islam trips* him and takes him down.]
*Inside leg trip, aka Ouchi-Gari in Judo:
Since Khabib had fought at 170 before, had cut a lot of weight to fight at 155, and was rag dolling almost everyone at that lower weight, I thought he should have moved up to fight against better competition just to challenge himself. The man only lost two out of sixty rounds in his entire UFC career, which in my opinion is an even more remarkable feat than going undefeated.
There was talk for a while of a superfight between GSP and Khabib at a catchweight of 165, but nothing ever came of it. GSP had to cut a lot of weight just to get down to 170, so I'm not sure it would've worked. If Khabib had just tried to fight at 170 in the UFC, we might've seen a lot of interesting fights.Replies: @Twinkie
Nice post. Thanks for the videos.
Weight is obviously critically important. But it’s not at all unusual for MMA fighters to make a move up in weight. Some do surprisingly well at a higher weight, sometimes better than they did at the lower weight. Anthony “Rumble” Johnson who fought at 170 for several years, but was even better at light heavyweight, is an example of this.
Since Khabib had fought at 170 before, had cut a lot of weight to fight at 155, and was rag dolling almost everyone at that lower weight, I thought he should have moved up to fight against better competition just to challenge himself. The man only lost two out of sixty rounds in his entire UFC career, which in my opinion is an even more remarkable feat than going undefeated.
There was talk for a while of a superfight between GSP and Khabib at a catchweight of 165, but nothing ever came of it. GSP had to cut a lot of weight just to get down to 170, so I’m not sure it would’ve worked. If Khabib had just tried to fight at 170 in the UFC, we might’ve seen a lot of interesting fights.
That cannot have been healthy, to be mild about it. He had non-Hodgkins lymphoma and an auto-immune disease and died of organ failure at age 38.GSP actually offered to fight Khabib at 155 if it were for the lightweight championship. After he had health problems going up to fight Bisping at 185 (though he beat him and became a middleweight champ), he slimmed down and said that he could have made 155 without too much trouble. But Dana White nixed that idea, because he felt that GSP reneged on his earlier agreement to defend the middleweight title if he beat Bisping.
What a fight it'd have been.Replies: @Pincher Martin
https://www.westernjournal.com/electric-bus-loses-power-going-hill-rolls-backward-crashes-line-cars/
Afterthought, Isn't Newsom hosting some APEC meeting tomorrow where Xhi deigns to meet Pedo Joe?
Imagine the effort that must be going on to keep the attendees away from the Tenderloin.Replies: @Alden
Tenderloin is about 6 blocks from the convention center. The homeless around the convention center were moved a few blocks away to 7th and Market. Location of the Nancy Pelosi federal building. Where the affirmative action scum refuse to work because it’s so dangerous. There’s 10 foot barricades blocking access to the convention center.
One of the nastiest streets in the south of Market skid row or psycho central is 6th street. The freeway off ramp for downtown and the expensive hotels goes directly to 6th street. So every tourist who flies to SFO gets to see nasty 6th street.
HANANIA: There was this pretty brunette who would occasionally come in. She was naturally above average looking, though you could tell that she put a lot of effort into her appearance too. At the same time, she had a sort of nervous personality; standoffish, not in the way where she thinks she’s better than other people, but rather deeply anxious. I felt like she always had to be looksmaxxing because life would be too unbearable if she did anything else. There was also this black guy who was a regular customer. He was very tall, and more noticeable for being muscular than fat, and always in workout clothes, either because he was always going to the gym when I saw him or that was just the way he dressed. He was laid back and jovial and I enjoyed talking to him.
One day their paths crossed. The brunette was walking towards the door to leave, and the big black guy was just coming in. He looked down at her and was like “Oh, hey…” like he was Barry White, as he slightly tripped over something. She looked up at him with fear in her eyes, a deer in the headlights, he laughed, and the girl quickly walked out right past him. Our black friend didn’t give it a second thought and then proceeded to greet me like he had every other time I ever saw him.
Most men are afraid of approaching women, likely for reasons that are evolutionarily rational but lead to maladaptive behavior in modern life. It’s easy to catastrophize, come up with sensible reasons why you shouldn’t try to talk to this particular woman at this particular moment, and to do the same thing next time, ad infinitum, until you go to your grave as a Darwinian dead end. And although no one will ever accuse me of being an Ibram Kendi, or even a Chatterton, I understand that black men hitting on white women might have extra reasons to be nervous, out of fears of social rejection and the potential for unusual levels of awkwardness alone even if the threat of interracial violence has gone down.
But my black friend didn’t care about any of that. Years later, I saw a clip of Alex Jones where he was encouraging his listeners to go hard fighting the globalists or whichever enemy he was fixated on that day, and said something along the lines of “You gotta be like a black guy hitting on girls, man. You’ve ever seen them? On to the next one, next one, next one.” I knew exactly what he was talking about, as would anyone who has lived around a large city in the midwest or south. Sometimes people accuse me of being anti-black because I’ll talk about crime statistics or whatever, but I’ve liked the vast majority of black people I’ve met, and found much to admire in their carefree attitude towards life. I grew up on gangsta rap, seeing it as a manifestation of some of the best attributes of black culture. My feelings about the art form became more nuanced as I grew older, but I still have the sense that most people in modern societies are pathologically risk averse and soft, and men in particular have a lot to learn from what has been one of the last repositories of older ideals of masculinity. I think mainstream American society would be better off learning from the ghetto than it would be learning from China, with its masked kindergartners and adults going through their lonely lives with crippling anxiety. One reason BLM offends me so much is that it maintains the more dysfunctional attitudes of the gangsta rap era — sympathy for criminals, oppositional and resentful attitudes towards white society, tribal simplicity — while doing away with its virtues, making black social consciousness more feminine and gay.
These two incidents helped me develop the ways in which I think about social anxiety, confidence, and why some people are happier than others. The most salient aspects of this worldview rely on facts that everyone understands, but you rarely see people appreciate the degree to which they should guide how we live...Replies: @Pentheus, @Anon, @Alden, @BB753
Typical Man of Unz rejoicing that White women are afraid of black men. Projection much? Like a nerd wimp whose untrained aggressive dogs snarls growls and charges at passers by. While the dork enjoys his surrogate bully dog attacking people.
We have excellent reasons for being afraid of black men. Fear of robbery rape serious injury or murder. There’s also the incessant sex harassment. I and most White women don’t want to talk to black men. They’re physically ugly pests. Inoffensive trying to start a conversation isn’t sex harassment. But black men are gross and disgusting. And always try to start a conversation or flirt or whatever it’s called.
Idiots are always talking about situational awareness will keep you safe. But never mentioning what you should be aware of.
Here’s the only situational awareness anyone needs. One black man might or might not be a criminal planning to rob rape or murder you. Two black men are probably robbers rapists or murderers. Three black men are definitely robbers murderers rapists.
You really enjoyed that scene of a woman being afraid of a man didn’t you you sadistic pervert.
Dan Henderson, on the other hand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IRlplbrZzAReplies: @JimDandy, @Twinkie, @Rick P
The long wrestling sessions are what I don’t like about UFC. I don’t really want to see two guys in tight shorts roll around with each other for five minutes.
I double dated with a couple my first wife knew through work. We went to a country-western bar—their choice. Shortly after arriving, the husband disappeared. Where to? “Oh”, his wife said, “he’s off to find someone to fight.”
“What?”
Anyone who goes looking for a fight is beyond idiotic. That night couldn’t be over soon enough for me. I didn’t want anything to do with a guy like that.
We don’t need to look for trouble, it will find us. Till then, get ready. Learn skills. Work hard. Become strong. Avoid idiots.
I enjoyed your comment. I’ll look at the YouTube channel.
HANANIA: There was this pretty brunette who would occasionally come in. She was naturally above average looking, though you could tell that she put a lot of effort into her appearance too. At the same time, she had a sort of nervous personality; standoffish, not in the way where she thinks she’s better than other people, but rather deeply anxious. I felt like she always had to be looksmaxxing because life would be too unbearable if she did anything else. There was also this black guy who was a regular customer. He was very tall, and more noticeable for being muscular than fat, and always in workout clothes, either because he was always going to the gym when I saw him or that was just the way he dressed. He was laid back and jovial and I enjoyed talking to him.
One day their paths crossed. The brunette was walking towards the door to leave, and the big black guy was just coming in. He looked down at her and was like “Oh, hey…” like he was Barry White, as he slightly tripped over something. She looked up at him with fear in her eyes, a deer in the headlights, he laughed, and the girl quickly walked out right past him. Our black friend didn’t give it a second thought and then proceeded to greet me like he had every other time I ever saw him.
Most men are afraid of approaching women, likely for reasons that are evolutionarily rational but lead to maladaptive behavior in modern life. It’s easy to catastrophize, come up with sensible reasons why you shouldn’t try to talk to this particular woman at this particular moment, and to do the same thing next time, ad infinitum, until you go to your grave as a Darwinian dead end. And although no one will ever accuse me of being an Ibram Kendi, or even a Chatterton, I understand that black men hitting on white women might have extra reasons to be nervous, out of fears of social rejection and the potential for unusual levels of awkwardness alone even if the threat of interracial violence has gone down.
But my black friend didn’t care about any of that. Years later, I saw a clip of Alex Jones where he was encouraging his listeners to go hard fighting the globalists or whichever enemy he was fixated on that day, and said something along the lines of “You gotta be like a black guy hitting on girls, man. You’ve ever seen them? On to the next one, next one, next one.” I knew exactly what he was talking about, as would anyone who has lived around a large city in the midwest or south. Sometimes people accuse me of being anti-black because I’ll talk about crime statistics or whatever, but I’ve liked the vast majority of black people I’ve met, and found much to admire in their carefree attitude towards life. I grew up on gangsta rap, seeing it as a manifestation of some of the best attributes of black culture. My feelings about the art form became more nuanced as I grew older, but I still have the sense that most people in modern societies are pathologically risk averse and soft, and men in particular have a lot to learn from what has been one of the last repositories of older ideals of masculinity. I think mainstream American society would be better off learning from the ghetto than it would be learning from China, with its masked kindergartners and adults going through their lonely lives with crippling anxiety. One reason BLM offends me so much is that it maintains the more dysfunctional attitudes of the gangsta rap era — sympathy for criminals, oppositional and resentful attitudes towards white society, tribal simplicity — while doing away with its virtues, making black social consciousness more feminine and gay.
These two incidents helped me develop the ways in which I think about social anxiety, confidence, and why some people are happier than others. The most salient aspects of this worldview rely on facts that everyone understands, but you rarely see people appreciate the degree to which they should guide how we live...Replies: @Pentheus, @Anon, @Alden, @BB753
“I grew up on gangsta rap, seeing it as a manifestation of some of the best attributes of black culture.”
I stopped reading right there.
"What?"
Anyone who goes looking for a fight is beyond idiotic. That night couldn't be over soon enough for me. I didn't want anything to do with a guy like that.
We don't need to look for trouble, it will find us. Till then, get ready. Learn skills. Work hard. Become strong. Avoid idiots.
I enjoyed your comment. I'll look at the YouTube channel.Replies: @Jim Don Bob
I don’t need to look for trouble. Trouble knows where I live.
Since Khabib had fought at 170 before, had cut a lot of weight to fight at 155, and was rag dolling almost everyone at that lower weight, I thought he should have moved up to fight against better competition just to challenge himself. The man only lost two out of sixty rounds in his entire UFC career, which in my opinion is an even more remarkable feat than going undefeated.
There was talk for a while of a superfight between GSP and Khabib at a catchweight of 165, but nothing ever came of it. GSP had to cut a lot of weight just to get down to 170, so I'm not sure it would've worked. If Khabib had just tried to fight at 170 in the UFC, we might've seen a lot of interesting fights.Replies: @Twinkie
Rumble was cutting an enormous amount of weight and frequently missed weight, even at middleweight.
That cannot have been healthy, to be mild about it. He had non-Hodgkins lymphoma and an auto-immune disease and died of organ failure at age 38.
GSP actually offered to fight Khabib at 155 if it were for the lightweight championship. After he had health problems going up to fight Bisping at 185 (though he beat him and became a middleweight champ), he slimmed down and said that he could have made 155 without too much trouble. But Dana White nixed that idea, because he felt that GSP reneged on his earlier agreement to defend the middleweight title if he beat Bisping.
What a fight it’d have been.
The exact same Tiny Duck comment is posted at The Zman’s blog under the name “Joseph Jenkins”:
https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=31109#comment-377245
The other commenters there suspect a bot.
1. Nikki Haley. She substantively had such strong answers that she looked like someone who could actually do the job of president Neoconservatism made its comeback last night, and Nikki Haley led the charge. Whether talking China, Israel, Ukraine, or Iran, she was crisp and confident. Her answer on abortion was thoughtful and seemed likely to connect with both primary and swing voters. If this were an actually competitive presidential nomination process, you’d be hard-pressed not to see Haley as far and away the most viable candidate for the general election. She certainly beat all the boys. Such as they were. The stylistic contrast between Ramaswamy has been a boon for her.
2. Ron Desantis. His best moment was early in the debate, when he made the case against Trump. He cannot escape the fact that it makes no real sense to try to run as a more competent Donald Trump, for the simple reason that the entire question of competence is orthogonal to Trump’s appeal. Just once, though, I’d like to see him debate without proposing a policy that violates the Constitution. He did nothing, however, to distinguish himself — or to slow the momentum of Nikki Haley, who has been gradually creeping up on him. So very, very hard to imagine him moving up to … anything.
3. Chris Christie. He was a little lower energy than usual. He deserves praise for his substantive, competent answers, but there’s not much of a market for that in the Republican primaries. It shows just how much the Republican Party has changed that Christie is viewed as more heretic than adherent. His reason for running was to thwart Trump.. When Christie isn’t running against Trump, one wonders why he runs at all.
4. Tim Scott. He’s right to emphasize rebuilding U.S. industry as a strategic necessity. His answers were filled with platitudes and wannabe sound bites that seemed ill suited to the moment. I’m not sure why Scott is still in the race. There’s no real appetite for the zombie Reaganism he displayed.
5. Vivek Ramaswamy. It’s actually uncanny how much he imitates the culture, positions and manners of right-wing Twitter trolls. If you’re gonna be the outspoken outsider, you have to be interesting as well as loud and irritating. He seemed to be running for most likely to get punched in the face.Replies: @Muggles, @Corpse Tooth, @Gandydancer
Tiny Duck think’s Nikki Haley’s answers were “strong”.
If she weren’t already clearly identified as a dangerous loon that would do it.
Looks like a mis-applied HTML-like tag for “new line”, no?
https://hartmannreport.com/p/why-are-republicans-fiddling-while-9d5
Remember what you stated—Personally, I appreciate the right to criticize others, so it strikes me as only fair that I too am criticized. Over the years, I’ve learned a lot from all the personal criticism I’ve been subjected to, and it has made me more perceptive, insightful, and correct.
Put your words to the test.Replies: @Gandydancer
From, your piece of trash:
Enough said.
That cannot have been healthy, to be mild about it. He had non-Hodgkins lymphoma and an auto-immune disease and died of organ failure at age 38.GSP actually offered to fight Khabib at 155 if it were for the lightweight championship. After he had health problems going up to fight Bisping at 185 (though he beat him and became a middleweight champ), he slimmed down and said that he could have made 155 without too much trouble. But Dana White nixed that idea, because he felt that GSP reneged on his earlier agreement to defend the middleweight title if he beat Bisping.
What a fight it'd have been.Replies: @Pincher Martin
I did not know that. It’s shocking he said he could’ve fought at 155 “without too much trouble.”