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25/September/2008

from ProjectCamelot Website

recovered through WayBackMachine Website

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Futuretalk - A New Conversation With Michael St. Clair

Montreux, Switzerland, May 2008

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After the initial success of our Futuretalk with David Wilcock, we decided to continue our Futuretalks as a series of conversations - not interviews - with people who have something important to say. This format encourages a more free-flowing interchange with our guest while at the same time allowing us to engage in a discussion that includes many of the questions and concerns of those who write to us every day.

A Futuretalk with Michael St.Clair seemed to be an excellent next step. Michael, as those of you will know who are already familiar with our first interview with him at Chillion Castle in Switzerland, is a fascinating futurist and metaphysician as well as an acclaimed astrologer. He's been thinking about the future in a multitude of ways for many years, has written three important and well-received books, and recently has re-entered the world of banking to advise private clients with an eye to the coming changes in world economies and ways of doing business.

We cover the whole range from safe spaces (which Michael prefers to call radiant zones), to what might be happening and what one should consider preparing for in the future, coming bank failures, possible geopolitical events that could change our lives, and other concerns. Michael has spent several years viewing the scenarios - both positive and negative - that one might need to consider in the years ahead.

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He shares his thoughts and his own personal vision, as well as some key points that everyone should keep in mind in the coming days.

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Part 1

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Transcription

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Start of conversation

Kerry: Hi. I�m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. And we�re here with Michael St. Clair and Bill Ryan from Project Camelot. And Michael St. Clair and I and Bill are going to have a Futuretalk together. We�re going to be talking about 2012 and the years beyond. And we�re going to be talking about, leading up to 2012, what we might plan for, what might be in the offing.

Bill Ryan: There�s a lot going on! Many of you watching this video now will be aware that we�re at the start of changing times. And the conversation really is about: What are those changing times? How might they affect each one of us in different places? If we are aware of this and mindful of this, what actions should we be taking?

We have a lot of people writing to us every week, every day, with questions about what�s happening, what�s going to happen, what�s next. And what should I do? We talked about this a little bit with our first Futuretalk with David Wilcock. We�re going to continue this conversation. We�re a couple months down the road. Michael St. Clair has got a lot to say. [laughs]

Michael St. Clair: Yes. Thank you.

K: And we�ve got a lot to share. So this is ... let�s actually say the month. This is May of 2008.

M: First degree of Gemini. Yes.

K: OK.

M: Sun in first degree of Gemini.

K: Is that today? As of today?

M: Yes. The 21st of May 2008. First degree of Gemini.

K: Because a couple of years from now when people look at this, they�ll be saying: When was this shot?

B: When this is shot. So, one of the things that we ... Well, let me speak personally. One of the things that I really took away from Michael�s first interview here... which feels like a very long time ago. It was back in 2006...

M: Yes. A lot has happened since.

B: It really seems like a long time ago!

K: Yes.

B: ...was you were talking about �safe spaces.�

M: Yes.

B: And, speaking personally, this was the first time that I started to sit up and think ... safe spaces? I thought I was in a safe space. Maybe I�m not. I started to ask those questions. And you�ve done a lot of work, a lot of thinking since then, a lot of exploration personally.

M: Mm hm.

B: And have given a lot of thought to what is this idea of a safe... In fact, if I remember rightly from a recent email we had, you don�t even want to call it a �safe space� anymore because that�s like defensive thinking. Tell us about that.

M: Yes. Well, it�s because this was my first word and I�ve changed it to suggest more literally, to call it �Islands of Light,� or �Radiant Zones.�

B: I love that.

M: �Zones of Radiance.� Because what I�m saying is that we know that we�re coming to some times where, just things are not going to look so funny on this 3-dimensional level. But this is more to do with the mindset of the people, with the majority of the people just not being with it.

Do you remember that two years ago I told you that people will begin to lose it? They just won�t be with it, mentally, spiritually, energetically etcetera.

So you need to know that inside of these �energy depletion zones� worldwide we will be able to create zones, little small villages, cities even, or just in the woods or wherever, situations which are �safe,� in the sense that the right people come together and some sort of sanity, spiritual-mental sanity, rules. And that creates a radiant zone. So it�s not so much about...

K: It has to do with the consciousness of the people...

M: Yes. It�s not so much about... Go ahead.

K: ...that inhabit the place

M: Yes.

K: ...and makes the place a safe place.

M: Yes. That�s the point I wanted to say, that my last point is that you can have tons of rice and all the goods and all the safety you want and all the safeguards and everything. We can go through what a safe place is and is not. But if you have one insane person, the whole thing falls apart, spiritually speaking.

So the place will be as safe as the people are functional.

B: Right.

M: Then of course you want to know... Probably, I shouldn�t really say that because if everybody did what I�m suggesting, it would create more mayhem than the Earth changes.

But of course it�s probably not advisable to live in the middle of a huge city because, simply, in a huge city you have a lot more dysfunctional behavior. So it�s not just about running for the hills or going into the mountains or into the woods. It�s not so much about that. It�s about having the right people together who really understand what this is about, what the next few years are about.

B: Now.

M: Yes.

B: So here�s a question. There may be some people watching this now who are saying: What are you talking about? Everything�s fine. [Michael laughs] And, you know, everything does look fine. I mean, it really looks fine.

K: Absolutely.

B: But what is all this about?

K: We�re here in an idyllic space. We�re in Montreux. We�ve got a beautiful view of the lake. And this is the Hermitage. It�s a lovely hotel/guest house, whatever. It looks idyllic.

M: Yes.

K: What could be wrong?

M: It�s a place I would have. [laughs] I would have it.

B: So what�s going on?

M: No. What�s wrong? Things are not good, really, if you want to be honest. Because below the surface... and I�m not so much talking about what�s going on in politics, economy and all that. We�ll get to all that in a moment maybe.

I�m talking about that people are not quite with it. People don�t understand. most, OK, don�t. Ninety-five percent of the people, I would suggest, are not really aware of what is cooking underneath in the energetic... I�m talking now about energy, OK?

Whereas a few of us, and more and more... Thanks to the work you�re doing, more and more people are really starting to - I don�t like the word �wake up� - but they�re starting to become aware, really aware, of things that are going on.

And they�re starting to ask questions which lead to a lot of soul-searching as well as asking themselves about what is about to happen and what can we do about it, etc. Because it�s really about what we CAN do. It�s not so much about this thing, funny prophecies and problems that will be. It�s really what we actually can do.

Because there is a lot we can do to go through this time without, actually, any fear. And actually come out of it better. Because some good things will happen, are about to happen.

So you have two kinds of realities that are sort of merging. That�s the dimensional shift, and then splitting, going either way again, where you have a not-so-fine reality that has always been, ... really, you know, for many years, for a long time, dysfunctional behavior, wars, etc etc ...becoming more and more crescendo type, coming to big confrontation, big conflict and tension, etc.

I can show you later on an astrological chart how tension looks like in two years. But you have, on the other hand, very advanced people who are aware of what�s going on, and they can, with their mind, to some degree turn the tide for some people. That�s kind of how I would...

K: Well, isn�t there the idea that the indigo children can actually facilitate this? There�s a telepathic linkup that�s going to be happening with these people, as well as those who are aware, in which we are all working together to kind of bring the Earth through this time and into a better dimensional shift, to a better place...

M: Yes.

K: ...as we move into the Galactic Center and these waves of energy that are coming through. I don�t know how you describe it...

M: Yes. But...

K: ...you know, in terms of physics.

B: Yes. I would like to... I�d like to back right up here, because I want to represent the people who�ve got practical, pragmatic questions, you know. Like the conversation we were having earlier today. Should we move to Sedona? Or not? You know, what�s going to happen in America in the next few months? What�s going to happen to the water table? Is there going to be enough water there? What about the infrastructure?

M: Yes.

B: Now I want to represent the questions of those people. Although I recognize that there�s a metaphysical backdrop to all this that a lot of people watching this will also be quite interested in, I want to know on behalf of the people watching this: What actions should I take? Should I be stockpiling food? When does this all start? How long should I be prepared for? What�s the worst-case scenario? It�s about backup systems. What systems should be backed up?

And is it irresponsible to talk about this anyway because maybe we�re scaring people unnecessarily? What do you feel about...

M: Well, that�s a point. Yes, that�s the point. You see, that we have to strike a balance. We cannot cause almost fear by speaking too much about it, but on the other hand we can�t say: Oh, everything�s fine, there�s no problem, all these prophecies are ridiculous, you�re all crazy.

Because it�s not. It�s a bit of both. But I don�t think it�s a good idea to say: Oh everybody go pile up on food, because that creates more problems. Like, you have restaurants, for instance, taking too much stuff in?

K: Well, let me just...

M: Sorry. Go ahead.

K: Let�s describe the problem that may be occurring, OK? And we don�t know the... we actually don�t know the degree of those problems. But we certainly can say, first of all, we�ve got Earth changes. Right?

M: Yes. They�re happening now. China, Burma, Chile. I mean, it�s right now, ongoing. So this is a reality.

K: OK. So this may escalate? Right?

M: For sure, yes.

K: The magma in the Earth is heating up. There�s a relationship between the heating up of the sun, or the activity of the sun, and magma in the Earth causing...

M: Yes.

K: ...more activity, increased earthquakes. And as a result of that, you�re talking about getting on higher ground. This is where these kinds of preparations make sense.

M: Yes. Sure. You do not want to be on coastlines. Because clearly what happened in Burma will be happening, most probably, in many other places where weather patterns, patterns of weather, can just not be predicted; can also be, you know, induced by scalar or other weather warfare-type weaponry. I don�t even really want to go there much. But the fact...

K: But the fact is many of these are not natural.

M: Yes. But the fact is water levels will rise. Yes, water levels will rise and the effect will be a lot of cities will be under water, at least temporarily. It�s not so that the water will rise forever and stay there. I don�t think so. But it�s, due to magnetic shifts, possible that the water can even shockingly, like surprisingly, come up and lift the whole place.

What should we do about it? That�s a fair question. That�s not alarmist. That�s not causing fear. That�s just being intelligent.

K: Right.

M: Many people say this is fear-mongering, etcetera. I say: Well, wait a second. Being intelligent, knowing things ahead of time is not the same as fear. So there�s just a balance there that one has to...

K: There�s preparation to be made in case of things that might come.

M: Yes.

K: Also the increased ferocity, if you will, of the weather. Even... You know, if you live in Florida, you know you�re going to be inundated...

M: Yes. That�s clear.

K: ...by hurricanes, whatever. Right?

M: Florida�s definitely not a good place. I live there. I have to go myself. [laughs] I know this time is coming.

B: But when we spoke two years ago, you were talking, advocating, finding a safe place. And I�m using those words because that�s the word you used.

M: Yes. That�s right. And I�m still for it. Go on.

B: Yes. What are your personal plans over the next year or so?

M: Yes.

B: What are you planning, what are you thinking of doing and why?

M: That�s a good question. Honestly I�m not sure. I�m not trying to avoid the question. I�m really not sure because it depends on certain things, what I do with certain clients who do want to build a center but more for education, dealing with indigo children, people like Boris, etc. And another part of my... I can�t really disclose exactly what I�m doing with clients because it�s their affairs.

But I�m also not sure because I want to keep flexibility. I believe we must be flexible to go this way or that way. In other words I have several plans for several possibilities.

B: OK. But what�s your model? Can you talk about it in general terms?

M: Yes. OK. The model of a radiant zone would be, basically you need a place that you own outright with patents to the land. You need land, probably ten, twenty acres, forty acres at least. You need water on that land. You need power, which you can do of course with modern, other ways of energy, off the grid. And you need food.

Those are the four things you have to have under control. Again: land, water, energy, and food. And then you must have the right people together.

So the idea is that people find to each other and group each other according to interests. And ideally they would have an expert in farming, in food, in sustainable living, a healer, a teacher. You have to have someone who understands medical, alternative medicine etc. Then you need a scientist, a technology guy, IT [information technology].

K: In other words, people with different skills coming together.

M: Yes. Yes.

K: There wouldn�t be all the same kind of people, but as a matter of fact communities need to be made up of different kinds of people.

M: That�s right. You want people who have something to give to each other, that together they can then create a new economy, a new society, really.

And then the idea is that you have two, four, five hundred such little societies dotted around the planet who ideally, by telepathy or new form of internet, can actually communicate with each other and create an economy together.

A barter economy. Just modern new way of economy, where we move away from the economy we have - which is reptilian central banking kind of finance - towards a sharing kind of...

B: [amused] Reptilian central banking? That�s a wonderful way of saying it.

M: Well, it is. That�s what it is. [Bill and Michael laughing]

B: I love it.

K: But also tell people, people that don�t know, that you have a background in banking.

M: Yes, we spoke about that last time.

K: But it�s good, because if they haven�t seen our first interview with you, if you could say a little bit about your background. I think that would be very important, to just sort of introduce where you�re coming from.

B: Yes.

M: OK. It�s simple. I studied law, didn�t finish. I didn�t get a law degree. [laughs] I then went into banking, where I did different kinds of things that showed me very clearly how the economy works, what banking is about, how investment banking works, which I find very interesting.

And I�m still in a way, or, more so than ever I am coming into investment banking. I am actually surrounded by advanced investment bankers and people who have understood that resources need to be redistributed and used in a different way to create such things like these radiant zones, these new economies, new energies, etc. Big projects.

K: But you also have a background in the Swiss army. Is this right?

M: Yes. I was a Swiss army officer. Yes. So what I learned there was, actually, how to do what we�re talking about, I mean how to run a place, how to basically manage people. It�s about how people together create a life.

And this has to be done without the government, without structures that are given by the reptilian central banking, central structure, central electricity, power, etc.

So the idea is to go independent and almost guerilla style. And that�s what we actually did in the Swiss army. It�s a sort... At the time I was in, I worked with a colonel and general who believed in this absolutely new untried way of forming an army that works on the ground with the people to defend... like a militia.

K: Mm hm.

M: And so that was a management school, essentially.

And from there into banking. I found in banking what works, how it works, and what does not work and why it doesn�t work, and what leads to the problems. So what I�m saying is that we are going to need to bring together people...

K: And you work with clients...

M: Yes. Of course.

K: ...in the banking area.

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M: This is what is do mainly now. Yes. I have two banker clients and a few other clients who have actually become partners. I mean, I can disclose it. I am the investment banker, one of the investment bankers, of this concept of radiant zones. So what we�re trying to do is bring funds to projects, and project people to the funds. It sounds easy but it isn�t. It needs alchemy, chemistry, bringing the right people together, etc.

K: And then you have an incredible background in astrology.

M: Well, that was my big hobby then [laughs]. I did that since way back when I was very young. I got involved into astrology because I knew the clock of the universe can tell me more how things work. And so I got into this to the point where I am a professional at that. And I combined this. I am actually doing financial astrology. I can, with charts, show you how the economy moves, when gold goes up, down, markets move, etc. So that kind of work is what I do with clients.

B: Hm. Fascinating.

K: And on top of that you started to create these amazing crystals.

M: OK. So this story here with the crystals. This is a heavy one.

B: That is an incredible thing. [Michael laughs]

K: Oh, it�s beautiful. It�s really stunning.

M: This is about orgone energy at its best. What I found out is that I have a recollection from a long, long time ago, which could have been Atlantis or something similar, where I was the master of the crystals. And we used to do - and we will in the future again - communicate through these crystals. You understand?

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We are made of crystals. The brain, pineal gland, etc, has crystals in it, so that Earth crystals and crystals in other star systems communicate through us.

So I did this out of interest to see what happens and how energy can be moved, if I can help make things happen for clients, etc. We�re going here into esoteric stuff, but which is just hands-on esoteric, and it does work. Clients tell me that they can move energy. That they can actually look into this...

B: OK.

M: ... and meditate and they get messages out of it and ideas. And they get inspired to do stuff, at that level.

And on another level, clearly this produces an orgone field in the place that creates stability, serenity, peace of mind, etc. At the very least, I maybe proactively can even, I mean, protect, at the minimum; and at the maximum, maybe even project energy to help people make things happen. That�s why I did that.

K: And do healing as well on these environments. And you�ve created this book that has a lot of his crystals. I mean, the combinations...

M: To me it�s art, but it is... Go ahead.

K: You�ve got stones, the power of the healing of the stones.

M: Yes.

K: You�ve got amethyst. You�ve got, you know, lapis lazuli. You�ve got, you know, quartz crystal, rose quartz. So each, the different energies.

M: Some of them also have gold in it, like this one has paleo-gemstones and gold. So I experiment with metals as well, and runes. To me it�s art, in the first place, but then I found out, well, maybe something more happens.

B: OK.

M: And it�s an ongoing experiment. I�ve done about 50 of those.

K: And this is part of the future energies that these communities may be creating for themselves.

M: Yes.

B: In summary, so your expertise is in energetics, astrology, banking... and survival. [laughs]

M: Yes. [laughs]

B: That�s an interesting skill-set.

M: Well, I was also interested in economics. How does the economy work? All is economy. Our whole society, human beings who share or cooperate, that is what makes an economy.

The problem we�re in is simply, we are now in 2008, coming towards the end of what I call this reptilian cycle of central control.

And now the resources are going to shift to what I call Nordic or ET-type resourcing-banking-economy, where people have to get their resources going and then do their own societies and their own economies. In that sense I am a visionary. And it will happen.

B: What does that mean? I mean, if I�ve a whole bunch of dollars in an American bank, do I leave it in there or do I do something else with that? This is a practical question.

M: Yes. No, no, my advice is... Well, first of all, the dollar is going to lose its value by at least another factor of half or more. And no, don�t leave it in the bank. You should really...

K: Banks are failing right now. Isn�t that right?

M: There is practically no bank that is not failing if we�re really honest. I mean, I can�t say names, because I can�t go there. But I can say that I know from an inside, really deep inside, viewpoint - just like you have with Area 51, with your ET knowledge - I have inside banking knowing to say that most banks are in very deep trouble and they�re going to fail. And they will merge and merge until there will only be maybe four, five, big groups of banking left.

So the trend is towards more centralization. So knowing that, you have to take it out, get your stuff in silver, in gold or resources, commodities. A friend of mine, an investment banker, works on commodities.

B: Hm.

K: Wow.

M: And create a new kind of economy in which you become independent of all of these things. And this is challenging. We are talking really advanced challenging stuff. Those are not easy things.

B: No.

M: But the good thing about all these changes, all these so-called Earth changes, is that very advanced new people will come forward and lead. This is human leadership at its best and it always comes about through huge challenges. So there�s actually only positives in this whole mess, you know.

B: Yes. But do you think personally, to use the clich�, that things are going to get worse before they get better? That we�re going to...

M: Yes.

B: Yes. You think so.

M: Yes. Of course. Between 2010 and 2017... I made a chart here for you. This is a typical astrological chart...

B: Now, I don�t know a thing about astrology, but I can see that there�s something...

M: ...that shows 2010.

K: The most challenging, you know, geometry, is the square.

M: Yes. The ground square, OK?

K: A square right in the center. Is this a chart for the world?

M: This is for the whole world. OK? This shows simply... Of course this is schematic, geocentric, that doesn�t really make sense in reality. But, as a schematic, what goes on here is, we see Pluto has entered Capricorn, which means the economy of energy precisely. And so Pluto is going to totally transform everything to do with society, banking, government, education, etc.

K: And Pluto symbolizes the destructive quality.

M: Yes.

K: And the transforming and the rebirth of something.

M: And the transformation. Yes.

K: So when it hits Capricorn, which Capricorn is the sort of standardization; it�s the sort of rigidity.

M: Yes. Yes.

K: It�s everything of the past that�s already been built up till you get this real transformation coming into what everything people have been used to for so long. You�re going to have explosive changes as a result of that.

M: Yes. And you can clearly also see when you compare backwards. 1765, that time about, was last time it was in Capricorn. And then every 250 years back.

Now I�m not suggesting that because in the past we�ve seen �A, B, C,� therefore in the future we will be �Q, Y, Z.� That won�t make sense. That�s not the way we should think. But clearly you see certain patterns of what�s going on.

Now when you add Uranus in Aries, too, in the square, and on a trigger moment like the one I chose here, which is August 7, the first August week of 2010... in other words, just two years from now. We had just two years ago, now, and again in two years.

You will see 2010 begins what I would simply call a challenging, tense time where there�s a strategy of tension in the air. And conflict. I mean, let�s face it, this produces conflict and that is with Saturn in Libra opposing Uranus in which the T square, the anchor of Pluto...

Now, what�s important about this... If this was just one moment of a few weeks or a few months, one could say, you know, big deal. But this Pluto-Uranus square is actually going to MOVE in tandem (square means 90 degrees) for at least seven years. So this is a very long period.

K: So between 2010 you�re saying and 2017 we�re facing major...

M: Major changes of all kinds.

B: But does that mean that everything�s OK until then?

M: No.

B: Are you saying that things will only get difficult before... Go on.

M: Sorry. No, not really. Things are not really OK, I think. But we have time enough, enough time to get well prepared. By �prepared� I mean mentally prepared, in preparations of knowing what we�re going to deal with, of training our minds to go further to do just almost what�s impossible. And we can do the impossible. We can make it happen.

And after 2010 and up to 2017, it is quite clear that we�re coming into what one could call difficult times or unusual times at least. But that doesn�t mean that precisely during those times we can�t excel and actually come up with brand new solutions.

B: Hm.

K: Mm hm.

M: And that�s why I�m saying we should go into places of relative safety and create little economies and small societies that teach new ways of living, because the rest will simply fade away.

So as these spiritual teachers talk about the great awakening, etc., and the prophecy people talk about all the negativity, both is actually correct. Because you have then this merging of the dimension going on. So you have... You will live side-by-side with societies that are completely crazy and going on their way out of history over the next, say 10, 20 years, while others...

K: Of people who refuse to change, right?

M: Yes. That�s right.

K: Because it�s when you resist change that you are damaged the most, in a sense.

M: Yes.

K: Whereas if you look forward to change and you actually flow with it and create along with the change, then that�s where you ride out the change in sort of a better space, energetically.

M: That�s right. Yes.

K: So, it�s kind of, that�s what we�re looking forward to. We�re looking forward to major changes coming fast and fairly furious, especially 2010 and on.

M: Yes. Yes. I think, though, according to Boris, whom you have met now, there is going to be something happening next year in 2009. I don�t know really the nature of it. And, you know, we can�t really say, nor should we...

K: Right.

M: ...and I even think it just has to happen. It�s OK. Whatever has to happen cosmically is for the better, for good reasons. But there will be...

K: But there are many changes that are positive. In other words, you need the destruction to destroy what�s already been set up on the planet in order to create the new.

M: Actually, you�re right. You know, if it takes half the population to pass on to another world, then that�s OK. Because maybe the Earth needs a clean-out. That sounds maybe brutal, but it�s....

K: Or cavalier.

B: That�s an extraordinary thing to say. I mean, there are people listening to this...

M: I�m not going to beat around the bush. [Bill laughs] At this time I think we have to be realistic.

K: Yes. Whatever you ... I mean, we�re here to have a conversation with you, to hear what you feel, and you know, and also we�re going to give you our feedback to how it sounds.

M: Yes, if the Earth needs to clean itself up of the parasitic forces, then that�s what it takes. It doesn�t have to be so, if of course, overnight 7 billion people start realizing what we�re talking about and start changing their ways of life, start thinking in other ways, then all this wouldn�t be needed and probably there wouldn�t be so many Earth changes.

I know this seems not to make sense, but I know this to be true for myself. And I would like people to, like you, to look at Wingmakers - and listen to the interview by its creator, James. It�s a two-hour interview that just came out.

K: Absolutely..

M: And he will take you through these things from his viewpoint and then you can read Wingmakers and other things. But you will see that what we�re talking about here... There is a point to what we�re saying. And that there will be good coming out of those seemingly bad changes.

B: Yes. Let me check my understanding of what I think you�re saying here, because what I think you�re saying is ... What my understanding was that James Lovelock was saying, who is the originator of the Gaia hypothesis or the Gaia metaphor, if you like, was that the Earth is a living creature...

M: Absolutely. Yes.

B: ... which kind of has the human race on it now functioning as a sort of uncontrolled parasite, with sort of uncontrolled parasitic growth, and there�s something that�s out of balance. And that what this organism is going to do is, it�s going to try and, you know, shake off the parasite at least to bring things back into balance...

M: Yes.

B: ...if it can. So you�re talking about a phase where things would come back into balance.

M: Yes.

B: And from a very, very high spiritual viewpoint you�re sort of saying: Well you know what, there may be a phase here where a lot of people are going to pass on because we can�t sustain these numbers on this planet. Is that kind of what you�re saying?

M: Yes. That�s right. That�s well summarized. Yes.

K: But by the same token, there�s a sense of the consciousness. This is where we have a choice in the matter as humanity, as, if you will, the parasite which we should not be on the Earth. Instead we should be living as, you know, the Native Americans have said and the native peoples, is with the Earth instead of against her.

M: Yes.

B: Yes.

K: But if we change our consciousness, if, you know, things like our Futuretalk here will make enough people aware, where they will wake other people up and begin to work together, taking our consciousness, unifying it in such a way that we are working for the positive, that lesser changes will be happening, less people will have to pass through this incarnation on to the next, and so on. Right?

M: That�s right. She�s right.

K: So it�s actually a choice that we have. It�s still a choice, as to how we rise through this to the future.

B: Yes. There�s this wonderful book which you�ve probably read, called The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight? [By Thom Hartmann.] Did you hear about that?

M: No.

B: It�s a wonderful metaphor. It refers... it has a double meaning. �The last hours of ancient sunlight� refers to the loss of the ancient tribal wisdom...

M: Yes.

B: ...that the Native Americans knew, that the shamans know, that the Mayans knew. That the aborigines in Australia still know.

And also, interestingly enough, �the last hours of ancient sunlight� is the end of the oil. The ancient sunlight, you see. And the, the premise in that book is that in order to get back to balance we have to rediscover the ancient knowledge and wisdom that our forefathers had.

For instance, there�s this wonderful little story that is told, you know, that the, ah, Native American tribes, they�d war with each other all the time, but they�d never wipe each other out completely because then they wouldn�t have anyone else to fight, so they had to leave some ... [laughs] It�s the same kind of principle. That sounds funny, but actually...

K: Well, hopefully we�re going to find some better lessons than that. I mean, you know, than how many we need to wipe out...

B: Yes.

K: ...and how many we need to keep alive.

B: But the point is, it�s a beautiful piece of wisdom because what they ... because even their enemies were a resource that needed to be renewable. It�s like they knew that they had to allow the way that their society functioned in the same way for their children, you know. And the same applies to the buffalo. You don�t kill them all.

K: Right.

B: Otherwise the next generation�s going to be living in a completely different way. And that�s the kind of wisdom that we�ve forgotten here.

M: That�s right. That�s right.

K: I think we�re going to actually be moving into tribal societies in a sense, smaller, you know, units.

M: That�s exactly correct. That�s what I use in my book -- tribal societies. That�s the future of our humanity. We�ll begin again, somehow from scratch, new, but still with very advanced technologies. Both is possible. And then the whole of humanity is a more advanced humanity.

James of the Wingmakers says he believes that 10 to 12 million people will come through these changes in a very advanced, aware manner, and that if we have 10, 12 million around the globe, we can start again and go much further. And I agree with him.

K: You said 10 to 12 million will make it through. And I�m just wondering, how many are there now? Because I don�t know.

M: Yes. Well, what he means, and I agree with him, is that if we have 10 to 12 million advanced people, spiritually, mentally, saying advanced, seeing what this is about and moving on and learning... because we all have to learn; we�re all challenged every day to move on... that then we will go to very good positive changes which are beautiful, where there is a brilliant future for mankind. And I feel the same.

And we will see this happen, let�s say, around 2020 to 2050. During that time. It�s just that until 2020 we have quite some cleanup going on.

So what he means by this... Or let�s put it this way: The way I see it is, if half the population is no longer here, but out of that other half we have 10, 12 million advanced ones, then we can restart. And I feel that�s what�s going to happen.

We don�t have those 10 million today. We have very few, about, say, that we are maybe a minority of a few hundred around the world will have a clue. Really.

B: Hm.

M: I mean, I know maybe 20 that I could say: OK those are friends that I could rely on and we could move the world in a different way.

B: Yes.

M: There aren�t so many who really know. And those few, you�ve met them. Those are the few that you�ve actually met. And there�s a reason why you�ve met them, you see?

B: I�d actually say there�s probably a few tens-of-thousands, but it might not be 10 million, you know. I mean, it�s a small number.

M: Yes. For now. But the idea is that it grows, you see.

B: Yes. Did you listen to our interview with George Green?

M: Absolutely. Yes. I listened to all of your interviews.

B: [laughs] In your...OK. Is this connected with what George Green refers to as �the ground crew�?

M: What we just spoke about? The ten thousand or 10 million people, you mean?

B: Yes.

M: I�m not sure where he takes it from. I know that he has... I don�t know what kind of guidance of ET kind. I know it�s extraterrestrial, but I don�t know if it�s Nordic. Mine is more in line with the Nordic-type line of thought, which is a very....

K: Pleiadian, which are Nordics.

M: I agree. That�s the same. Then we are on the same page. That�s what we mean, yes.

B: My understanding of what he means is that there�s a relatively small group of people. I mean, it may be, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions, ideally, but it�s still a very tiny proportion of the human race...

M: Yes.

B: ... who are aware enough and alert enough and prepared enough to be able to ride through the storm.

M: Sure.

B: And start things again if necessary.

M: Yes. And also educate the others.

B: Yes.

M: You see, one thing I heard in this interview with James... his webmaster who interviews him, Mark Hempel, I believe is his name...

K: Right.

M: He said the most googled phrase in China, or one of the most googled phrases in Google China is: Why are we here?

B: [surprised] Really?

M: What are we doing here? Why are we on this Earth? See, in the United States or in our western world, the most googled word would be some rock star or movie star name, whatever. In China people are actually asking [Bill laughs] What are we doing here? What for?

So, you see, it is going on. Of course there is a huge groundswell of awareness. It�s there. I�m just saying that I know maybe of 200 people that I could say: OK they�re going to be the future leaders. And those are people like Boris or like Dan Burisch in his thought, or John Lear, these kinds of people that you interview, who are people who share what they know and for good reason.

K: Mm hm.

B: They�re thinking out of the box. They�re got the courage to say what they know or what they feel. They�re not going to be put down by any criticism.

M: Yes.

B: This is what you�re talking about.

M: Yes.

B: Yes. Yes, so they�re carrying the torch in a way.

M: Yes. It takes courage.

K: You mean they�re truth-tellers. People that are risking themselves, who put themselves out there to tell the truth, are by nature going to be leaders of, sort of, the world going forward.

M: Yes. I mean by �leaders,� thought leaders, people who bring new ideas into this world. People like Tesla or Christ or Krishnamurti. These types of people. Although Krishnamurti said precisely we don�t want leaders because we don�t want followers.

And is say the same in my book � you don�t have to follow any gurus, any religions. All that is toast and history anyway.

K: Absolutely.

M: Through these changes this whole thinking will have to be changed. I�m speaking of leaders in terms of creators, co-creators. People who lead the way in the ways we should be looking at the world and at our life.

B: Inspirational thinkers.

M: Yes.

B: Uh huh.

K: Sort of at the forefront, in a sense. The first wave of what�s coming. Because in a sense we�re all leaders. As we go forward, that�s actually going to be a trait that�s required to sort of make it through the next few, you know, the next several years.

M: That�s right. Each one has to be his or her own leader. Yes.

K: They also have to be focused on their inner... I mean, isn�t there a sense that you can�t actually go and look in a book and say: Oh this is going to be a safe place and x y z and go there. It�s actually where you must listen to what your inner guidance...

M: Absolutely.

K: ...sends to you. Because it�s going to be safe for you where you�re actually pulled magnetically to be and with the people that you�re meant to be with. If you�re going against the grain and just following some external information, this is not going to lead you actually to make it through in the best place, physically or spiritually.

M: That�s right.

B: So you�re saying it�s not so much about a whole checklist of information. It�s about the attitude.

M: Yes.

K: It�s your inner... really listening. I mean, I think that�s something James also talks about.

M: Yes.

K: Which is, it�s necessary to listen in to your own inner guidance. It�s not listening out to what other people are saying so much as going inside and getting the information and knowing how it resonates with you. If somebody tells you something or you hear something, then taking it inside and actually seeing how it resonates with you, with your heart, and how you�re able to focus it.

M: I agree. I agree. It�s not about checklists. And this is why I also refuse - categorically - even with clients, to tell them where to go.

B: OK.

M: Because that�s way too much responsibility on me and why should I do that.

B: So it�s not like a formula.

M: No. There is no such thing as a formula. You know, there are people who will make it well even in the cities. Well, because maybe they�re meant to be there as healers or teachers, or for whatever reason. You know, each one has his or her own karma or way.

K: Or there�s serendipity.

M: Yes. You have to listen to this inside, as you said. That�s an inner stance you have to take. So you cannot take the advice from outside. That is why I am reticent of saying to people: Do this, do that, don�t do this, or don�t do that, because it�s just not right. I shouldn�t be in the position to give that kind of advice. Although I know what is OK and not OK to do, I want people to figure that out for themselves.

K: But you�re not a person who thinks that war... that we�re actually headed for World War III or IV, depending on your perspective of all of that. War with Iran, for example. That�s not where you think we�re going?

M: [hesitates] Um ... yes and no. It�s a different kind of war. Yes there will be war. The short answer is yes, we�re going to... See, we are at war, you know.

The future is the now extended and so I think there will be conflict between the US and China. It�s heating up over the Tibet issue, really, unseen. And there is conflict going to be taking place between India and Pakistan, the US and Pakistan.

When I say US, I don�t mean the American people. I mean, of course, the secret government behind the government. Because the actual government doesn�t even have a clue why they are doing what they�re doing. They�re just being whispered to by the gray command: Do this. Hit that and take that out.

K: And by gray command, you mean �the grays�?

M: I mean the gray ETs. Well, they�re not actually ETs. I mean the clones. Yes, the grays.

K: Yes.

B: Mm hm.

M: And so the answer is yes, there will be wars. And I don�t want, really, to predict �This one takes this one out� and so on. There will not be nuclear strikes of any huge kind. I do not see that happening. And I don�t think it�s a good idea to even put these thoughts out.

B: Hm.

M: I believe strongly that there are other forces who can actually disable the classic nuclear strikes.

B: Hm.

M: There will be, however, and there are ongoing, so-called �mini nukes� and neutron bombs and stuff like that. So there is a very ugly side to the conflict. And that�s going to involve China, the US, India, Pakistan, and maybe Iran to some degree.

B: Hm.

M: I think that Iran is taking a lead from the Russians, trying to behave and to just steady the situation. So, so far...

K: Ah, that�s very interesting, very positive.

M: ...they have not provoked into what they could have been provoked, you see. So I feel we have avoided some of the worst things, but there is obviously more to come.

In these years I showed you by astrology, you see very clearly that from the middle of 2010 to the beginning of 2011 is the probably most - hottest zone - where conflict will get started.

B: Hm.

M: Although it�s actually not right to say this, what I just said. It�s just... realistically, so that it would be safer to assume there is going to be conflict and we make preparations for it.

B: Hm.

M: Now, this will start, of course, over resources � water. Economic. This is all economic. It�s an economic war.

B: Mm hm.

M: And it�s happening unseen already.

K: That�s an interesting point. OK.

M: You know? So if you see in Burma, for instance, the 6th largest rice producer has just been taken out...

B: ... just been taken out ...

M: ...that means less food, more food riots, more social problems coming to the west, etc. And all these leads to more conflict. Unfortunately that�s just a cycle in which we are in, still, for another I believe, I guess, 7 to 10 years, let�s say up to 2020 when Saturn-Pluto click in position in Capricorn.

That�s when things will begin to get better. Really, strictly, that�s the zone. So we�re looking at 10, 12 years of tumultuous changes, through which we can, however, come to amazing new beginnings. We just have to be fearless and brave about this.

B: I mean, this is really big picture thinking. I don�t know of many people who are thinking about 2020. Most people�s thinking kind of stops at 2020. [laughter] I mean, a lot of people I�ve been speaking to, they don�t even know what�s going to happen next month, you know. So this is really...

M: Yes, you�re right. We should stay in the now. I�m just giving you this bigger picture because Kerry asked about wars..

B: Yes.

M: And that�s where this is going..

K: Well you�re an astrologer and this is your natural, you�ve written...

M: Yes.

K: ...this book. You know, Light-Seeds is your current compilation. You�ve got Zen of Stars ...

M: Yes. Light-Seeds is in a way the collected works. It�s Zen of Stars beefed up, advanced, updated together with ForeSeen, which is kind of a science fiction approach to a hyper-dimensional reality in which you star, by the way, you two.

K: [laughs] Your Project Camelot.

M: Project Camelot is in Light-Seeds and shows in the future what will be done. So it�s not a compilation. It�s an advanced, more up-to-date version of what I feel, based on the knowing that I have now, in May of 2008, of what is most likely to transpire.

K: Hm.

M: So as an astrologer I don�t just look at now, 2008. I want to look at what happens, say 2050, 2080, because to me that is of interest. I understand that for others this is maybe not so interesting. But it�s only by looking at the bigger moves that you can calculate backwards and kind of see where we�re at in this navigation through time/space.

K: You�re going to see the arc of change.

M: Yes.

K: And growth, hopefully.

M: Yes. And for this you can only look at the outer planets. Honestly, you can only look at Neptune and Pluto. Those two show you clearly where the big evolution of mankind�s thought process is at. And it�s with that that I can say where we are headed to.

K: Well, what about Planet X?

M: To me personally, honestly? [laughs]

K: Yes.

M: I think it�s a complete bullshit. Sorry to say.

K: No. No apology necessary.

M: I think the Vatican... I know they want ...

K: It�s actually a good thing.

M: They want their Planet X. They want it so bad.

B: Hm.

M: But it�s not going to happen.

B: You think it�s a distraction?

M: It�s an invention, is what it is.

B: An invention.

M: It�s an invention, I believe, by the Vatican, which in turn is controlled by the reptilian, literally underground. The Vatican sits on a huge space and they are insane and they come up with these stories.

Now there is a reason why there are these South Pole operations going on, but I don�t believe it�s that they are looking for Planet X. There may be orbiting, like asteroids, stuff like that. But, you know, we would know that. The European Space Agency would actually say such things. They are more advanced in that sense than NASA is or other space agencies, that there is no �body� coming to hit the Earth. That is just complete rubbish.

B: Yes.

M: What will be in Planet X is a metaphor or sort of a code name. What will take place, in my opinion, and IS taking place, is a shift of the magnetics. And this may press, somehow, on the atmosphere. To say this in a stupid way, in a simple way, it�s pushing and pulling on the outer layers of the Earth. That�s my opinion.

And the whole of the planetary system, our solar system, is moving, let�s say, through a zone, an inter-dimensional, hyper-dimensional switching of energies. It�s difficult to get the right words here for me. But you see where I�m getting to.

It�s a change of energies through which we�re moving. And IT, whatever that it is, that new energy, moves through us. So we are actually now 2008, 2009, and 2010, coming into the threshold, like.

B: Yes.

M: I call this like this - stepping through the doorway. And the thing, this new consciousness, comes through us and we go through it. And that�s a process. And that doesn�t happen on one day.

K: Right.

M: That�s a thing that takes, I believe, 10, 20 years, in reality.

K: Yes.

M: So it�s a process, you know.

B: That�s one of the most intelligent presentations of this that I�ve heard, actually. Basically it�s saying that we�re moving through this.

M: Yes.

B: The Earth is moving through this.

M: Of course.

B: It�s going to be a rough ride for the Earth and for us.

M: Yes.

B: But all of us, including the Earth, are going to make it through, but there are going to be changes because that�s what happens in a time of transition.

M: Yes.

B: And it�s nothing to do with Planet X. It�s more to do with regions of space which the whole...

M: Yes.

B: I mean, this does fit with what we�re talking...

M: And the thing we were talking, the crystals.

B: Hm.

M: Everything is energy. OK? And so everything has consciousness. I mean, these dust molecules, everything has innate consciousness. And so when all this goes through a magnetic shift... And this has happened before and will happen again. Those are just cycles, ten-thousand-year cycles.

When that happens, the populations of Earth... and other planets, right? We know there are populations on other planets. So all of us, all beings, including the ETs, the so-called ETs, Nordics, everybody, is going through this challenge or through this change.

And this is... I think this is an amazing time to be around.

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Part 2

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Transcription

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Start of conversation

Bill Ryan: I�m going to challenge you just a little bit here. Because, once again, I want to represent the questions that we get coming at us every week and every day.

And we get people saying, you know: Now I�ve listened to what you�re saying, I�m even more frightened. [Bill and Michael laugh] OK? And I know that you don�t want to give me a formula, but you�ve got to give me some direction. You�ve got to give me some clues.

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You�re telling me I should be aware and flexible. OK. I�m aware and flexible. Now what do I do? OK? Can you be more specific, without putting people into a victim mentality?

Michael St. Clair: Yes.

B: I know there�s a fine line to draw here.

M: OK. I�m glad that at least you see my dilemma here.

B: Yes.

M: Thank you. Because, seriously, I have clients, they ask me, and non-clients who then become clients, ask me exactly these questions that they ask you. And it�s really hard, you know. Am I going to say to them: Oh, leave New York, don�t be in California. Do this. Do that.

I mean, certain things are just obvious. You�re not going to wait it out in Florida when you know that there�s just going to be rising seawater levels. That�s simple stuff.

But I can be much more specific in the sense of, yes, I can say to people how you should prepare a place, in the sense of the logistics that are involved, what you need to have -- a new economy going, that you have to have a healer, a teacher, alternative medicine people, scientists, these types of things. And I can go into great lengths of detail of saying...

B: People who know how to grow things and people who know how to mend a generator that�s broken.

M: Yes.

B: Just hands-on skills.

M: Yes. OK, on the hands-on part, that... to me, I�m like useless. [Bill and Michael laugh] I can barely change a Jeep tire, OK? It was a joke in the military. They said: Don�t give him anything because he will wreck it. [Bill laughs] And to think I�m a leader, authority in a sense, if I say to people to think about what are you going to do when this happens.

I come up with crazy solution ideas which then other experts who know about it will then do. So what I do typically with clients... They come to me because they see a situation and say: What do you have to say? So I say: Well, try this out. Have you thought of that?

And that is sort of a way of... I like to say I turn the ignition key on in the brain, in the mind of my clients, or people, and then they run with it and they do something.

So the book is a whole collection of inspirations, ideas, and stuff that I�ve researched and had over 20, 40 years since I�m a kid really, stuff that I�ve thought should be changed in the way we live. For the, you know, the planet, we have to change the way we live. That�s what it�s about.

So to answer your question now, yes, I can say a lot more in detail about the economy.

Like I said, you must not keep your money in the banks. That�s clear.

The dollar will go down. You need to look for another currency. I still feel that the Swiss franc will be OK for a while. The Euro will do a little better for a little while, then it will also get hammered.

You have to be in the metals. You have to find your commodities. You need to be in gold and in silver, by which I mean physical possession of gold and silver and not stocks or shares.

K: Right.

M: So in other words I can, to put it clearly to you, I can confirm what John Lear told you. I think his interview was the best. I mean you two ... I have to say without giving you false flattery or stuff ... you are the most advanced investigative researchers. And John Lear said many things that I can agree with. So did George Green. As to economics, I can certainly confirm his viewpoints.

Also Ralph Ring and quite a few of your interviews that are so advanced that I would think that people need to see them, spend time, invest the time of their own education, to look at your work and spend the 50, 60, 70 hours it takes to take it all in. As I did. For preparing for this interview I actually watched all your interviews again. So I can say I�ve watched them all twice at the very least.

K: Wow.

M: And this time is well spent. I think people should really take it in. And then from there, to answer your question, then start their own process of thinking.

OK. So the answer: In some ways, there is nothing to be fearful of. You have to be intelligent in the sense of you need to know certain things are going to happen.

And I then always say that seeing this future is its own right action. Seeing is its own action. When you see what�s going on, you will be intelligent enough to come up with your own solutions, which are different from one situation to another situation. So one human being will, based on the same knowledge, do one thing and another will do something else. This is why I can�t give blanket advice. It just doesn�t work like this. Do you understand?

B: Hm. Yes.

M: I�m not trying to avoid your question. OK?

B: But you�re saying the most important thing is the people. You�re saying that one crazy person ... excuse the generality... in a community... It doesn�t matter what technology, what preparation, what food stocks you�ve got. They can wreck everything.

M: Yes.

B: This is kind of what you�re saying.

M: Yes. Well, if it�s just one in a community of, say, 200 people, they can isolate that person or put that person to some other use or deal with it in some way. But as soon as you have a few rotten apples who think the wrong way or start dysfunctional behavior, the whole place falls apart.

And that has to do with the energetics. I�m not just speaking just of the psychological level of interaction. But it creates conflict for sure, due to whatever bad emotions that are going on. It�s the energetics.

You really want people who are... I don�t mean �of the same mind and think the same way.� That�s not what I mean. But who cooperate. You understand? The future, the economy, the thinking of the new human, the new mankind, the new human beings, is about cooperation, sharing economies, sharing knowledge.

K: Right. As opposed to competition.

M: Yes. That�s right.

K: It�s actually a different mode of being.

M: A different mode to avoid all conflicts. Yes.

B: Now, earlier on today when we were talking over lunch, you mentioned something which I didn�t quite understand. You were talking about �safe space hunters.�

M: Oh yes. [laughs]

B: What�s a �safe space hunter�? And what�s wrong with a �safe space hunter�?

M: Well since I put this book out and this notion of... you know guys think it�s looming to maybe want to find some nicer place to live and get organized... it has created what I call �safe space� or �safe place hunters.�

It�s becoming a trend that people are waking up, so-called, becoming more aware, and they just think, you know, in the logical usual way of thinking: OK I need to go find a safe place. Let me go now, figure this out. And then they contact me or others, you or other experts, and say: Hey, can you tell me where in Canada I should go? Where in... wherever. And they expect me then to say: Here. Use my phone list, you know.

It�s just not going to work like that. But what�s going to happen as people are becoming more and more fearful and more stuff like China, Burma, and Chile will happen, more people will flip out, basically speaking, and will say: OK we need to go find a safe place. That�s what I mean by �safe place hunters.�

B: OK.

M: Now, you have to be really careful about those people because they come to the whole issue with a completely inadequate mindset. And it doesn�t matter if they come with money. I mean, I can have a guy who comes to me and says: Hey, here�s 2 million Euro. Can I get in on your setup that you�re doing?

So if it�s not the right person, it�s not a good thing to do.

B: Yes. Right.

M: But of course, you need funds first to get it going.

B: Yes. So you�re kind of saying, beware of people who are trying to buy their way in to something.

M: That�s what I mean also. Yes.

B: But they�re not sort of, how can I say, spiritually and psychologically equipped to contribute to a community...

M: Yes.

B: ...in a way that adds value. Because every person coming in should be adding value to the whole.

M: That�s right. That�s the notion. That�s exactly it. They come... everybody should come in with the... Yes, with the contribution idea. There is this old French saying of the Spanish Inn, which functions in the way that people bring food and drinks and stuff to the inn and make it an inn with what they bring.

K: Ahh.

M: OK? So yes, they have to bring contributions in forms of skills, knowledge, trading, barter, economy. Funds, of course. Yes, you need resources.

B: Yes. Technical skills.

M: I have investment bankers and I welcome people who want to come to me with the idea of funding certain projects or places. And I will then sift through it and then pass them to you. And to experts of mine who have actually asked me to say: Yes, we are interested in doing this.

And so first and foremost we want to have resources to do it. Because we need that. That can be land. That can be technologies. But it has to be, certainly, also raw funds, or gold.

B: OK.

M: And then we also want to have scientists with ideas, patent-holders, people who have breakthrough technologies, medical technologies. In other words, brilliant minds.

And they are all coming together through you, through what you�re doing, by our effort, by the very effort of doing this, thinking about it, speaking about it - bringing people together. It is happening.

Several years ago it was kind of nowhere. Today, 2008, we are advancing to this. And two years from now we�ll be really looking good. So I am very optimistic and confident about what we�re doing.

B: OK. And in there somewhere, just a little group of people you haven�t mentioned ... people who know how to grow things. I don�t know how to grow anything. [laughs]

M: Yes. I did mention sustainable living.

B: Did you? I�m sorry.

K: Yes. And absolutely, like organic farming. I mean, you�re talking about kind of a movement, in a sense, to be able to be a self-sustainable community.

M: Yes.

K: In other words, it�s not just a community of people that are then waiting for the trucks and the trains to arrive if these things are down. If the grid is down, it�s a sustainable community. Right?

M: That�s right. That�s the most important thing. Yes, the new communities will have to be able to grow their own food, essentially. And I spoke to one. I have a friend. Him, I cannot disclose who that is and where he lives. But he is an expert and he showed me, in theory, what it entails. And it�s a big subject, OK? That�s just one subject that alone is worth many books.

B: Yes.

M: OK? So is alternative healing, energy healing, new teaching, new children, the voices of this world, etc. I mean, it�s a huge subject. That�s why the fat book. [laughs]

B: Right. So communications are something we spoke about, about these backup systems in case... You know, it�s like you would need to have water on your... in this community, in case there is no water coming out of the taps. You need to have a generator in case there�s no electricity. You need to be able to communicate in case the grid goes down.

M: Yes.

K: What were you were talking about?

M: Hydro.

K: You�ve been talking about wireless ... what did you call that? Walkie-talkies?

M: Ham radio. [Bill laughs]

K: Ham radio. Yes.

M: I was talking about ham radio.

B: [laughing] He�s talking about ham radio.

M: Yes. I was a military communications officer, actually, and that is the most important thing. He�s right.

B: Really?

M: Without communications we�re toast. So then we are just sitting ducks in the middle of...

K: Henry Deacon has been telling us about this as well, has been encouraging us to do ham radio, to learn it. And you must be... if you�re an expert, right? You�d be great.

M: Well I used to know but that was 25 years ago and now the technologies are very different.

K: Ahh...

B: But this is still...

M: Ham radio will be going through changes.

B: It�s standard military training, how to use a radio.

M: Yes. Yes, so that every community needs to have that. Because should the grid go down... I don�t know for sure will it or will it not go down. I don�t even want to go there. But, just a number of certain things are better dealt with on the checklist to have prepared than not to have prepared, obviously.

And when you mentioned Deacon... That�s something that�s really of interest to me. And I wanted to ask you maybe... I�m sorry if I�m interrupting the whole flow of the conversation.

K: No. Absolutely...

M: I know he�s the one guy that�s not on camera, for good reason. But I wanted to know if you could explain to me and to the viewers... I�m interested in a summary, if that�s possible at all, in a few sentences, what he told you. Because I know that what he said is [Bill laughs] so out there that to me it�s interesting. The more out there it is, the more interested I am.

B: Right. [to Kerry] You want to start?

M: I�m sorry if I kind of cut the conversation.

K: Well, I mean, we have to say that he�s a government insider who worked for, you know, some very... Livermore Labs among other things... and that, because of his position, he was in on meetings that were planning things like eliminating large portions of the population through, actually, viruses that would be planted around the globe. That�s one of the things he talks about.

B: Yes. I can probably run through the checklist, actually. Let�s see.

M: What I�m trying to say is, can you give sort of the grand scale summary of what he knows?

B: OK. He knows a lot of stuff. His situation was different from that of most specialists with a basis in science. They�re put in one place, they�re heavily compartmentalized, and then they become a specialist in one particular area, in one particular location, you know.

M: Yes.

B: Now, Henry was different because he had a function in what, in the civilian world, would be called project management.

M: OK.

B: So he got to work with teams of people as his function, to help them work together, which is quite interesting, considering what we�re talking about. And because that was so unusual in the so-called �black world,� he found himself being placed in a number of different locations with a number of different projects.

And he was unusual, not unique, but unusual, because he got to see a lot of different things and a lot of different places and was able to connect dots. A lot of people who are in specialized black projects don�t get to see what�s happening in the room next to them or the facility down the road or whatever.

M: Yes.

B: And Henry knows a lot of stuff. And he told us a whole bunch of stuff which is so unusual. You are quite right. He�s the most remarkable whistleblower I�ve ever come across, whether we know him or not.

So, one of the things that is sort of immediate imminent importance is that he said that a number of years ago he was made aware of a plan [with strong emphasis] � a PLAN � for a war between China and America in 2008.

M: That sounds about right. Yes.

B: He told us that in August 2006.

M: OK.

B: So, now we�re kind of watching, you know.

M: Yes.

B: He told us, just as Kerry said, that he�d been... he�d sat in on meetings where population reduction was planned through the release of stealth viruses, stealth pathogens.

M: Yes.

B: He told us about 15 months ago that at the end of 2007 - in other words we�ve passed that line now - he said that from what he knew, which may have been outdated, but from what he knew, the Middle East would no longer be a safe place to be because of the release of viruses. He couldn�t swear that that was the truth, you know, right now, because he says that things change and things change. But based on what he knew, that�s what he was briefed on at the time.

M: Yes.

B: He knew about 911. He was part of the control team behind 911 that were controlling these planes that flew into the World Trade Center. Real planes, not holograms.

M: Yes. OK. So there is slightly difference between John Lear�s viewpoint, and mine, and his.

K: Right.

M: So OK. Go on.

B: He said that his best understanding, on the basis of the technology which he was working with personally, and his briefing, was that these were real planes remotely controlled from thousands of miles away.

M: Makes sense. That is about the way I would see it. Yes.

B: And he said... However, he said that whatever it was that hit the Pentagon was not a passenger plane. He said it was a small Navy jet.

M: Yes. Or a missile, probably.

B: Or something.

M: So he was... So who? All right. Just let me get this clear. So where would the planning module, the �brain� behind that operation, be situated, according to him? Would that be part of what I call like this - the hidden part of the government that the government itself doesn�t even know exists? Because at least the government itself has no clues.

B: Yes. It was in the location where he was working and he has asked us not to say where.

M: I understand.

B: It wasn�t New York City. It was a distance away.

M: Yes. That makes... Intuitively I think that�s right.

K: It�s run by ... I have to say it�s run by various countries. So what you have is a collection of Powers That Be behind the scenes...

M: And I think that�s right.

K: ... that are kind of orchestrating, is what he�s always stressed.

M: That�s right.

K: But they also have a plan that rolls out very much like Iron Mountain, the Iron Mountain Report, if you�re familiar with that.

M: Ah! Yes. You must read that report. Very important. Yes.

K: That�s basically the outline for it. It will fall like dominoes.

M: Yes.

B: Henry said that many years ago he was in a military briefing where his briefing officer came in, put the Iron Mountain Report on the table and said: We are the wolves. The population, the civilian population, are the sheep. Read this. And then we�ll continue to talk in the morning. That�s my understanding.

M: Yes.

B: And some people out there say the Iron Mountain Report is a hoax and so on. He said he was given that to read by his briefing officer because that was the plan.

M: OK.

B: That�s what he said.

K: He talks about the grid going down, which is something Dan Sherman was trained for.

M: Yes.

K: If you remember our interview with Dan Sherman.

M: Yes. Absolutely.

K: To be an ET communicator between ETs and the people positioned in power around the globe during this time.

M: Yes.

K: It�s very interesting, the idea that you needed to communicate with ETs in order to get through that time.

B: Yes. That�s right. And one of the first things that Henry told us back in August 2006, he said: Get ham radio. You�re going to need it.

M: Yes. OK. So that�s clear.

K: And he also said to get an old car that was not running on, like, the new electronics.

B: Yes. All kinds of stuff.

M: That�s true. That�s right.

B: He said one of the threats, whether it�s from the sun or from some kind of military action or HAARP activity or whatever, is electromagnetic pulses.

M: Yes.

B: He told us how to shield our electronics. He said if you�ve got a choice of a vehicle, get an old diesel truck.

M: That�s right.

B: Or an old diesel car with no electronic management system, no spark plugs, you know. It�ll just go, like an old boat.

K: And he said to bury your computer. Like if these pulses come, like bury it in the ground in cotton. [laughter] I don�t know. What is it?

B: Silver foil... ah...

M: Yes. Fold it in foil. I heard that too.

B: Aluminum foil wrapped up in cloth, you know, in your basement or whatever. I mean, all of that kind of stuff.

M: But I take it, on your site you have his stuff written, right?

B: Yes. It�s all there. But the thing is... You see, I mean, there�s a whole bunch of details.

M: Because I�m asking you now to go beyond what you have on the site, if you see what I mean, if you are allowed to do that.

B: Yes. OK. I can go a little bit beyond what was on the site, which is really quite interesting. Because this was about... I can�t remember now, 10 days ago or something, just after John Lear�s interview came out... and I was in my apartment in Switzerland, about 3 o�clock in the...

K: [cautioning] Don�t give too much detail.

B: No, no, no. I was just about to close everything down and I got an email. It was an email from Henry. An email from Henry. And Henry said: I�m watching John Lear�s interview. This is good stuff.

M: It IS good stuff! [Kerry laughs]

B: We, you know, sometimes we get a bunch of emails from Henry. And sometimes we can go a couple of months without hearing from him. So I thought: Ah, I�d better reply straight away �cause he�s there now in real time. And so I replied, saying: I�m pleased you�re enjoying our interview. And then he got back ... Anyway, to cut a long story short, he was watching John Lear�s interview in real time.

M: The four hours, the whole thing.

B: The four hours, from beginning to end.

M: I did the same, actually.

B: And as he did so, every time he had a thought or a comment, he�d send me an email. And I got... [laughing all around]

M: Well, that�s living in the now. That�s good.

B: I ended up with 32 emails from the guy. And the bottom line was that he said that 80% of what John Lear said was correct, including some of the wilder things.

M: Yes, very good.

B: He didn�t comment on the gravity on the Moon and the atmosphere on the Moon. He didn�t make any comment about that, right or wrong.

He said that from his own experience he could not verify the hologram theory [of planes hitting the World Trade Center on 911] because his own personal experience suggested otherwise. But he was very keen not to trash what John was saying because he knows that technology exists. He was saying: As far as I was aware, these were real planes.

K: He also said life on Venus is true.

B: Ah!

M: Fascinating. Adamski�s 1952 report that is...

B: I mean, he said a whole bunch of crazy... Basically he said that everything else that John Lear said was absolutely right on the money.

M: Yes.

B: Which is amazing considering what he [John Lear] did say, you know.

M: I�m sorry to interrupt... Is he now still working there where he was at, or is he out of that?

B: We cannot comment about that.

M: OK, sorry.

B: That�s just not the kind of question...

M: No no no. I just meant to say, is his knowledge still totally up to date?

K: Well, OK. I want to say here that this is the issue with Henry and with whistleblowers in general that come from the inside, which is - like Hoagland said in our interview - there are many layers to the onion and the lie is different at every level.

M: That�s right. Yes.

K: So you don�t know what level each whistleblower has had exposure to, how high up they were able to get.

M: Yes.

K: Now, Henry is not familiar with MJ-12. He did not reach that level of being in the know. However he was in meetings, as we�ve said, so he had a certain sophisticated level of knowing. However he didn�t go all the way up the chain.

M: This is what makes the two of you really the most advanced team, because you�ve collected it all and brought it together.

B: Well, yes ...

K: We�re trying to centralize this knowledge base, to get it out there to people so that they will really get the overview of what�s going on and not just get these pieces that don�t join together.

M: Yes.

B: Because you have to put the pieces together.

M: That�s the point.

B: One of the pieces that came together at a very early stage, and which really made us sit up and take notice... because we interviewed Dan Burisch back in the summer of 2006.

M: Yes. I remember.

B: We liked Dan, the story rang true to us. We immediately struck up a friendship. We felt he was very credible. We spent a long time with him. And we thought: You know what, this story is crazy, but it just might be true.

Next thing we knew, we heard from Henry. He said: Yes, I can confirm all this stuff.

M: Yes.

B: Everything about the timelines, time travel, future humans, the whole crazy thing. He said: I can confirm that. And he�d never heard of Dan Burisch. He didn�t get this stuff off the internet. We had to say: This is who Dan Burisch is, you know.

And then the other thing was, just as Kerry said, Henry said: But, you know what, I�ve never heard of Majestic. In all the briefing documents and the briefings, that name was never mentioned. He said: For sure there are groups behind the scenes who are monitoring this and organizing this and facilitating this and coordinating this, he said, but I never heard that name.

M: Yes. It may be called a different name...

K: Also �the second sun.�

M: The second sun?

K: That was a given.

M: Yes. OK.

K: It wasn�t Planet X per se. It was sort of a different concept.

M: Vulcan? Planet Vulcan maybe?

B: No. What he was referring to was a smaller part of the binary star system.

M: OK. That makes sense. I agree with that.

B: And he said that he learned about that when he was working for a classified project within NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, if I�ve got the name right. And so he was able to confirm that.

M: Yes.

B: And then there�s this whole other stuff. I mean, he�s been to Mars, [laughter] which is enough to make anyone ... I mean, you know...

K: In our video, Jumproom to Mars, we talk about that.

B: Jumproom. Yes. That�s the whole conversation there.

K: So let�s not go too much more in detail with that.

M: Yes, I know you have that covered. I only asked to be up to date.

B: But the most important thing, you see, I mean all of those are details. You can drill down and it�s an incredible story. But the overview - which he has said to us many times - he said the problem is that everything is happening in a big kind of convergence.

M: That�s right.

B: Everything�s happening at once.

M: I agree with him.

B: You�ve got different factors happening. And the total effect on the human race and the planet is going to be quite traumatic. These are my words, not his.

K: And we get messages saying... In fact we got, like a year ago, we were told about food riots. And at the time we didn�t put it on our web site.

B: We didn�t believe it!

K: We just thought it was so outrageous...

B: We didn�t believe it! We thought: If we publish all this stuff about food riots, people are going to think that we�re crazy. So we didn�t publish it.

M: I know. It is happening. It is the truth. But I think - that�s only my theory, now I don�t have sources like you � but this one is my own thinking. I feel that the so-called �gray powers� behind the actual secret government are sort of trying, testing out, certain scenarios now. That�s my opinion and I may be wrong.

But I think they�re testing out like what happens, like if you hit China with an earthquake, if you do this to Burma, and do this and this and this and that. And they�re trying to see what does this then add up to. That�s my opinion. For now. At this moment. But in about a year to two years� time, we�re outside the test zone and into the real thing.

B: Experiments.

K: Interesting concept, yes.

B: Wow.

M: Anyway, but I meant to say one thing after all this... because it gets a little dark at times... and I can imagine the viewers will say: Oh my god, this is really crazy stuff.

You have to know about all these subjects. That�s my opinion again, that you must not turn a blind eye to all this stuff that we�re talking about. So in other words, it is time well spent to learn, to watch all of your videos that you did. That�s what I�m saying to the viewers.

But on the other hand, you have to also know that you cannot go too much with your energy into these so-called conspiracy subjects. They�re not theories, by the way. They are conspiracy truths. They are facts. But because when you give too much energy, too much effort and time, into this type of dark stuff, it then starts to pull you down on a vibrational level of fear.

This is a balance that you have to find. It�s difficult. I mean, you... we know. People think we are experts at this.

And so you have to be kind of careful how you give your time and your effort to these subjects. In essence what I am trying to say is, you have to know what�s going on, and knowing it, you do your own preparations.

K: Well, creating a positive future out of it is the idea.

M: Yes. That�s it.

K: And what I would say is this ... Messages for the Ground Crew, George Green�s book, and you can hear more about that on our website if you listen to his interview... but one of the things it talks about it staying in the observer mode, which relates to staying out of fear, being able to follow what�s going on, be aware, know if a train is coming down the tracks and you�ve got to move your car.

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But at the same time, sort of being able to take it all in, see what resonates with you, and get into almost a meditative state, whenever necessary.

And I think that�s something we can talk a little bit more about, which is... We�re talking about the practical, but I do think the spiritual preparation is every bit as important for the coming days. And I think you would agree with me.

M: Yes, it goes hand in hand. Yes. You can�t do one without the other. And the observer mode of what you were saying before, with the analogy of the boat crew? That�s something they actually taught us, the young kids in the military, in the officer�s school.

This guy I worked with, he was a very young general, he said just was you said. He said: Look, when the shit hits the fan - in clear English - you have to stay calm because everybody else is going to lose it. So there�s only going to be one guy who will be able to say what the next solution is and that�s the guy who can think clearly. And you can only think clearly when you stay calm.

I know this sounds a little bit advanced and far-fetched, but that�s the way it is. And that�s why we need level-headed people in these times that are coming. There is no other way. This actually is Zen at its best, you know.

K: Yes. Absolutely.

B: Going to that, to what we were saying about the boat and the mountain. If I was choosing people to climb with or choosing people to be on a boat with, you don�t want people who are going to panic.

M: Yes. Really. That�s disaster.

B: And in the military you don�t want people in your platoon who are going to panic. You want people who are going to stay clam, make the correct judgments, consult other people, not jump to conclusions, assess the situation, and then act.

M: Yes.

B: And to do all that in a balanced way.

M: That�s right. And in addition you want those people also to have developed -- highly developed as much as is possible now � this, what I call, psychic, this instinct, of being able to deal with what I call the invisible world.

You see here around us right now... I can tell you right now there are at least 5, 6, beings, high beings. There are two to protect me, one of which is actually a reptilian who is on the new side trying to help out. [to Kerry] You have one or two. [to Bill] You have an older very, very ancient, like a Taoist master being behind you.

But you can see stuff in a ... and this is going to become more and more the case over the next years ... that people will be able, sort of out of the side of their eyes or with the third eye, to actually detect the presence of this other unseen world and go into contact with that and be able somehow ...and I have a lack of words even in the book for that ... via telepathy or somehow, establish a �consciousness dialogue.�

So what I am saying is, in addition to all that you said with the boat crew and the mountain crew, and then do that with the knowing that we�re surrounded by beings who can help us.

K: Right. That�s true.

M: And we have to advance that gift. Now, a lot of people may think: OK, St. Clair�s gone insane, [Bill laughs] but I want to show you something, and you can show it in your thing.

[holding above photo] This picture is showing a landscape that was photographed two years ago in China. I don�t know, I forgot where exactly. It�s on my website anyway. And I haven�t taken the initial picture. I should show you another one.

It�s a landscape that shows basically a seascape, sea and just a normal edge of coastline with trees and landscape and basically nothing on it. OK?

B: Mm hm.

M: This photo is shot by at least hundreds, if not thousands, of people. This is known. OK? I�m just saying this as an introduction to be clear what we�re looking at.

B: Mm hm.

M: Superimposed, what you see, is obviously a city. We�re not sure if the city�s ancient...

K: Oh wonderful. Oh, that�s great.

M: ... or if it is future. OK? So here comes our time travel notion.

B: Hm.

M: But clearly we see. And then of course the media try to falsify and say it�s a mirage, just mirage effects due to the weather and stuff. It is not. In my opinion this shows very clearly the, um...

B: Overlapping.

M: The alternate... yes, overlapped reality. In other words, that at the same time, in the same space, exists another reality, superimposed on ours.

K: Yes.

B: Yes.

M: And this photo is in this sense... Oddly enough by the way...

B: Incredible.

M: ...was taken and came out in China right about the same day the first book came out, which was by itself a sign or validation-type symbol to say, you know, this other world, the unseen world, the other dimensions, all that, it does exist.

K: And this is what they mean when they say esoterically that �the veil is thinning� between the worlds.

M: Yes. I always try to make things physically clear when I can. Because there is a lot of wordage and verbiage and just jargon of the spiritualists, and I like to show things just plain.

B: That�s incredible.

K: But I think people will agree. People are writing to us every day telling us of how this is impacting their own lives...

M: Yes.

K: ...how they are having, you know, visitations. They are seeing things before they happen. They�re having all kinds of telepathic and clairaudient at times. It�s really interesting how this is going on. And there�s a speeding-up quality about it.

M: Yes.

B: Yes. We could fill a 500-page book just listing peoples� psychic experiences that they have reported to us. Personal experiences.

K: Yes.

M: And that they work together, as we do, like we obviously work together on another level too, you and I.

K: Mm hm.

M: I mean, you know that sometimes I don�t need to say it by email, you know, and I hear it from you too at times without the words, saying, you know: Be careful, don�t mess up.

So what I�m trying to say is... so when we have all these skills that we discussed and add to this this whole psychic warrior skill, the Zen master, peaceful warrior type engagement, then we really become effective and then become like... really efficient... for the times ahead.

K: Yes. I think that we would have to say also... Prepare. I call it, you know, preparing your light body.

M: Yes.

K: This is every bit as important. And meditation is a really important aspect of this.

And through meditation and what happens as you join up the chakras and you do prepare your light body, what you want on your team, what you want in your groups and your tribes, are people like this.

You want shamans. You want a craftsman, you want a person who can do these hands-on, grow food, but you also want people - all of these people - to have these activated centers so that they can be better able to withstand and change with the coming vibrations that the Earth is going through.

M: But people have been, particularly in these fearful times, the tendency to say: Oh, which guy should I follow? What should I think like? Etcetera. That�s of course a trap not to go into.

B: Of course. They want someone should tell you what to do.

M: Yes.

B: And for the new times, you�re saying don�t let anyone tell you what to do.

M: No, the new times and after that.

K: I�d like to say that there�s also protection that has to go on. Because there are positive ETs and there are negative ETs. There are positive entities and negative entities.

So opening up and getting guidance outside yourself can... You know, it�s a double-edged sword and, you know, there�s no two ways about it. You do need to be discerning as to what you�re listening to. Is it a positive? And that�s a road you have to pick, if that is a spiritual journey.

And we can�t tell you, you know, what you�re communicating with and whether that�s a positive entity or not. You�re going to have to determine that for yourself. But it�s a very important aspect of this. Because during these times there are many false prophets coming forward.

M: You bet.

K: Sovereignty. You know, that really seems to be a key word.

M: Yes, it�s all about sovereignty.

K: It�s sovereignty of the Earth, in other words, to create its own destiny, regardless of all the ET influences that are impacting it right now and the negative influences, but to find its own way in a positive growth and evolution.

But at the same time there�s personal sovereignty. And this is really an important key thing. In other words... Know that you, every single human, has within them this incredible power, this incredible gift, you know, to actually be so much greater than you are now.

�

That your Higher Self is actually somewhere out there for you to connect with, and god, and beyond. So you know it�s like ...

M:. That�s right. Yes. That�s well said because you have only yourself that you can depend on, to put it bluntly.

B: What I want to know... And this is a conversation we have not have before this. Because I�m really fas... You�ve got some maps.

M: Yes. These are, here, sea-level maps showing what happens when so much water...

B: Wow. OK.

M: ...rises and how the maps look like. And I�m not talking now about Scallion maps and all these, like, bizarre maps, because I�m not for or against what his theories are.

This is very simply a Google-type map situation that says: OK, if you add twenty meters of water, a hundred meters of water, etcetera, then that�s the picture you see emerging.

B: Then you�re just adding... Ah, got it. Yes, yes, yes.

M: OK. But what I want to say about these sea maps, what�s important is, that we don�t know how water really will react.

B: Hm.

M: Because water is magnetic. And we don�t know. No one can foretell with absolutely certainly how the future Earth landscape will look like. I have a feeling that there will even be landmasses coming out somewhere. There could be lakes disappearing.

I�m just saying this to illustrate that we really don�t know with absolute certainty where a safe place is. That everything adds up to an enormous crescendo of outside forces that are just simply going to change the landscape of what�s given as an Earth.

K: Outside forces, but also maybe pushed along by The Powers That Be in their games that they�re playing... because they do have an agenda.

M: Certainly.

K: The illuminati has an agenda. They�re working up to... They are working towards an Armageddon scenario that has to do with eliminating population, following, like, the Bible as their script, if you will.

M: Yes.

K: Such that they�re actually planning for events that will look a certain way.

M: Yes.

K: So that people will buy into them.

M: Yes, so that their prophecies get fulfilled.

K: And they are pushing things along, creating wars, creating more chaos in the Middle East. This is part of the plan.

M: Yes.

K: So that, you know...

M: But I would say they will crash and burn themselves because clearly they are on a misguided path. That�s the kind way to phrase it.

And James Wingmaker says we can actually only give them compassion. We find this a little hard [laughs] to think we should give them compassion and love, but it is right. What else can we give them?

But they will not get their plans through in that way because the forces of which I am talking about, which are the higher being forces and nature itself, the cosmos itself, will take care of this in its own way.

K: There is some dark stuff at work there. But what�s most important is emphasizing and concentrating on the positive in what you can do to create the future.

M: Yes. We are co-creators. That�s what it�s about. That�s the whole reason why we�re here. If we were to say to the Chinese who put into Google why we�re here, that�s it.

This is a co-creation experiment and these years ahead are the most amazing time, actually, of all of humanity. Because as you said in one of your written statements, we�re going from the humanity we have, to this better version of the new humanity.

That�s what�s going on. This is fascinating actually. This is positive.

K: I think that that�s the best explanation for why we�re here. I think that that needs to be repeated because I think it�s really important. This is a co-creativity experiment in which... That�s why we�re here and what we�re doing. We�re actually here to find out just what incredible creators we are -- each and every one of us.

M: Yes.

B: There�s a wonderful movie with Jeff Bridges called Starman. And one of the beautiful lines in there that I�ve never forgotten is... and this is the �starman� talking, talking to a human who he teams up with... saying: The thing I love about you is that when things are at their worst, then you are at your best.

M: Yes. That�s right.

B: It�s a wonderful thought to end up with [laughs].

K: Well let�s hope that�s where we are.

M: Thank you for everything you�re doing. This is great what you�re doing.

K: Well, and thank you. And thank you for joining us, Michael St. Clair.

B: It won�t be the last time [laughs].

M: We�ll see if that�s true [laughing]. And this is... I think this is an amazing time to be around.

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