User talk:The joy of all things

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RAF Satellite Stations

So, continuing our convo; "No, not a typo, was as in past tense." Apologies, I should have made it clearer; the tense wasn't the issue.

"A satellite station station was..." i.e. repetition of the word "station"

You cannot trust the website (raf.mod.uk) as it states that 100 Squadron still operate from RAF Leeming. As a taxpayer, if that is the best the RAF can do, I want my money back! Yes, I already knew they have a capacity to be somewhat sloppy.

As to {my} final point,

I do hope you are also able to resolve the classic problem of what happened on 1st April 1918, when various RFC air stations suddenly came under RAF control.

More apologies if I was too cryptic. How about we discuss the following extract from a random early aerodrome.

The establishment of East Fortune⁽¹⁾ as a flying station pre-dates the formation of the Royal Air Force. RAF East Fortune⁽²⁾ was first designated as a fighter and airship airfield in 1915 and became a Royal Naval Air Service⁽³⁾ station in August 1916

Some Wiki pages mistakenly link to the village bearing that name, because it includes some details about the old airfield and museum. It's a common error, and not strictly relevant to our discussion. Ignore it.
Here it formally describes the location as "RAF something", but then talks about 1915, which pre-dates the formation of the RAF. That's sloppy too, but points to a general confusion regarding terminology and chronology. Hopefully your new article will remedy this for future editors. Let us hope so!
In 1916 it became a Royal Naval Air Service station; this implies a formal change from "an aerodrome in the vicinity of East Fortune village" to a specific establishment named "RNAS something". Is that really the case; is it documented as such? Was there a ceremony, with a bugler, or some awful bagpipes. Or was it just noted on an official document. Or is there no official record of such a place with that specific name? Maybe it was invented post facto by historians and Wiki editors?
And finally, what happened on 1st April 1918? Did it suddenly become "RAF East Fortune"? Was there another ceremony to mark the changeover. Were mapmakers (i.e. Ordnance Survey) and official bodies notified to henceforth refer to the base in this manner? Or did this happen much, much later, say around 1938?

I'm sorry, there are a lot of points there, but they are all basically related. I am curious to find out if what we understand today, by virtue of station signage, headed notepaper, websites, etc, was formally laid down at some point, or simply arose through common usage. I have read somewhere that before WWII, of all the hundred or so airfields used by the RAF, only a handful were officially named as such. Did I dream that?

WendlingCrusader (talk) 10:21, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

WendlingCrusader Thanks! I'll address these points one by one:

"A satellite station station was..." i.e. repetition of the word "station" - my typo (I have removed it)
Here it formally describes the location as "RAF something", but then talks about 1915, which pre-dates the formation of the RAF. Establishments used by the RAF that were taken over at the beginning of April 1918, tend to be described on Wikipedia as RAF Foo, as they had a longer career under the RAF than they did under the RNAS or RFC. So, essentially, the article should be named RNAS East Fortune/RAF East Fortune, but as per our conversation here, the RAF just left it as RAF East Fortune, when it should have probably been RAF Athelstaneford as that was the parish name. Assumedly the aircrew knew the base to be called East Fortune, and it was easier to leave it at that. My own article about RNAS Hornsea Mere, is labelled as RNAS rather than RAF, as it spent three years under the RNAS, and only one year under the RAF.
In 1916 it became a Royal Naval Air Service station; this implies a formal change from "an aerodrome in the vicinity of East Fortune village" to a specific establishment named "RNAS something". Is that really the case; is it documented as such? Was there a ceremony, with a bugler, or some awful bagpipes. Or was it just noted on an official document. RNAS East Fortune was formally instituted as an RNAS base in August 1916; prior to that it had been an alternative landing ground of RNAS Dundee, but it seems it was upgraded to a full base.^[1]
And finally, what happened on 1st April 1918? Did it suddenly become "RAF East Fortune"? Was there another ceremony to mark the changeover. Were mapmakers (i.e. Ordnance Survey) and official bodies notified to henceforth refer to the base in this manner? Or did this happen much, much later, say around 1938? I am not sure - given they were still at war, I assume nothing serious was rolled out except at say Cranwell. But given that they were under pressure from the Government and the Royal Navy to be disbanded, they would be using the name RAF XXXXX from the very start. A memorandum issued in 1916 stated that the base at Bramham Moor was to be known as RFC Bramham Moor, then in April 1918, it was changed to RAF Tadcaster, but the name of Bramham Moor persisted, even in official documents.^[2] It seems that the fledgling RAF issued memorandums in April 1918 asking for name changes....
I have read somewhere that before WWII, of all the hundred or so airfields used by the RAF, only a handful were officially named as such. Did I dream that? Plenty, if not all, the RAF bases prior to the Second World War had official names, especially it it was enshrined in the station badge, though most did not receive their badges until the 1940s/1950s, which is why such places as RAF Elmdon (now Birmingham International Airport) was not awarded a badge.

Regards.

References

^ Smith, David John (1989). Action stations 7: Military airfields of Scotland, the North-East and Northern Ireland (2 ed.). Cambridge: Stephens. p. 92. ISBN 1852603097.
^ Taylor, David (2006). RFC Bramham Moor, RAF Tadcaster: an insight. York: GMS Enterprises. pp. 15–16. ISBN 1-904514-32-4.

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year! Thank you for the continuing stream of interesting articles, particularly those on Yorkshire topics. Looking forward to reading many more over the coming year. Warofdreams talk 20:21, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Warofdreams - and the exact same sentiment to you. Regards, and a Happy New Year (and a fervent hope you keep editing!) The joy of all things (talk) 20:32, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Smith, David John (1989). Action stations 7: Military airfields of Scotland, the North-East and Northern Ireland (2 ed.). Cambridge: Stephens. p. 92. ISBN 1852603097.

[2] Taylor, David (2006). RFC Bramham Moor, RAF Tadcaster: an insight. York: GMS Enterprises. pp. 15–16. ISBN 1-904514-32-4.

[1]

[2]