Creating new wikis is being reworked right now. We need a bit.

Change #1098903 had a related patch set uploaded (by Gerrit maintenance bot; author: Gerrit maintenance bot):

[mediawiki/extensions/WikimediaMessages@master] Add messages for Indonesian Wikivoyage (idwikivoyage)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1098903

Change #1098917 had a related patch set uploaded (by Tim Starling; author: Tim Starling):

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Prepare id.wikivoyage.org for installation

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1098917

Change #1098918 had a related patch set uploaded (by Tim Starling; author: Tim Starling):

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Activate id.wikivoyage.org

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1098918

Change #1098917 merged by jenkins-bot:

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Prepare id.wikivoyage.org for installation

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1098917

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-11-29T04:01:44Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Started scap sync-world: Backport for [[gerrit:1098915|addWiki.php tweaks]], [[gerrit:1098916|Run dumpInterwiki.php locally with no changes]], [[gerrit:1098917|Prepare id.wikivoyage.org for installation (T380726 T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099065|dumpInterwiki: read from preinstall.dblist (T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099066|addWiki: Move DB_ADMIN to core]], [[gerrit:1099064|addWiki: Add UpdateSearchIndexConf

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-11-29T04:12:18Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> tstarling: Backport for [[gerrit:1098915|addWiki.php tweaks]], [[gerrit:1098916|Run dumpInterwiki.php locally with no changes]], [[gerrit:1098917|Prepare id.wikivoyage.org for installation (T380726 T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099065|dumpInterwiki: read from preinstall.dblist (T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099066|addWiki: Move DB_ADMIN to core]], [[gerrit:1099064|addWiki: Add UpdateSearchIndexConfig]], [[gerrit

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-11-29T04:20:17Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Finished scap sync-world: Backport for [[gerrit:1098915|addWiki.php tweaks]], [[gerrit:1098916|Run dumpInterwiki.php locally with no changes]], [[gerrit:1098917|Prepare id.wikivoyage.org for installation (T380726 T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099065|dumpInterwiki: read from preinstall.dblist (T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099066|addWiki: Move DB_ADMIN to core]], [[gerrit:1099064|addWiki: Add UpdateSearchIndexCon

Change #1099405 had a related patch set uploaded (by Tim Starling; author: Gerrit maintenance bot):

[mediawiki/extensions/WikimediaMessages@wmf/1.44.0-wmf.5] Add messages for Indonesian Wikivoyage (idwikivoyage)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1099405

Change #1098903 merged by jenkins-bot:

[mediawiki/extensions/WikimediaMessages@master] Add messages for Indonesian Wikivoyage (idwikivoyage)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1098903

Change #1098918 merged by jenkins-bot:

[operations/mediawiki-config@master] Create id.wikivoyage.org

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1098918

Change #1099405 merged by jenkins-bot:

[mediawiki/extensions/WikimediaMessages@wmf/1.44.0-wmf.5] Add messages for Indonesian Wikivoyage (idwikivoyage)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1099405

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-02T03:55:25Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Started scap sync-world: Backport for [[gerrit:1098918|Create id.wikivoyage.org (T380726 T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099405|Add messages for Indonesian Wikivoyage (idwikivoyage) (T380726)]]

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-02T04:12:28Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> tstarling: Backport for [[gerrit:1098918|Create id.wikivoyage.org (T380726 T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099405|Add messages for Indonesian Wikivoyage (idwikivoyage) (T380726)]] synced to the testservers (https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mwdebug)

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-02T04:26:30Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Finished scap sync-world: Backport for [[gerrit:1098918|Create id.wikivoyage.org (T380726 T352113)]], [[gerrit:1099405|Add messages for Indonesian Wikivoyage (idwikivoyage) (T380726)]] (duration: 31m 05s)

Change #1099411 had a related patch set uploaded (by Tim Starling; author: Tim Starling):

[mediawiki/services/restbase/deploy@master] Add id.wikivoyage.org

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1099411

Don't forget to change the logo. (As of now still the default English logo). Thanks.

In T380726#10377318, @Bennylin wrote:

Don't forget to change the logo. (As of now still the default English logo). Thanks.

That should be taken care of in T381080: Post-creation work for idwikivoyage

Why is this task still open? Normally these are resolved when the wiki is created.

Since @tstarling is the owner of this ticket specifically, I let him decide. But yeah. The rest should be done in the post creation ticket

RESTBase is still broken. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/services/restbase/deploy/+/1099411 is linked to this ticket and is unmerged.

There's a separate task for that: T381081

OK, but in future, I don't want there to be a task. You shouldn't need a task for a one-line change. It's just in the RESTBase project with no subscribers, which is unmonitored, so it's not like the task is helping it to actually get done.

According to @MSantos, it is harmless to deploy the RESTBase config before the wiki is created, and I am recommending that going forward. If I understand correctly, it shouldn't be post-creation work because it is actually broken until the change is deployed. The Math extension is logging 404s, you can see it in the Math channel on logstash, e.g. this error. The referrer is https://id.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Istimewa:MathStatus which does indeed give a user visible error if you try to do anything.

The current thinking is to create the core of the wiki ASAP so contributors can start the work and the rest should be handled afterwards.

Also another big reason to push this to after the wiki creation is that only a handful of engineers/volunteers are comfortable with creating new wikis (in the past five years only Zabe, Martin, James F, you, and I created wikis) and since all of these people are already overwhelmed with other work, the less they need to do, the faster they can create the wiki. Anything that can be done by larger group of people (e.g. logo changes that gets done by a way larger group of engineers and volunteers) should be pushed to after wiki creation so more people can handle it. And this has worked quite well. Reducing time from request for creation in phabricator to the actual creation from months to days (and sometimes hours)

That being said, we can look at the problem in different ways:

• RESTbase is being phased out. I don't know the status of the work, but if it's in its deathbed, than we are wasting our time here.
• RESTbase can also instead of maintaining a long list of wikis, gather it from another list. e.g. language list for the DNS: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/dns/+/master/templates/helpers/langlist.tmpl
• Even if that's not possible. It probably can be moved to dedicated file so we can create the patch for it automatically (the same way we create patches for DNS)
• If that's not the working either, then we need to make more people comfortable with creating wiki and also make people who create wikis comfortable with RESTbase deployment (I'm not, I haven't deployed RESTbase ever)

I think the issue should be resolved before we can move it to pre-creation checklist.

I realize the wiki creation tickets and their subtasks are created automatically by software. In the past I also had ideas how to slightly change what is a subtask of what etc for certain things.

I also heard that there is currently an overhaul of that software in progress and I think it moved from one to another code review system.

Could you remind us where old (and new?) version are hosted? Maybe then in the future we could submit review/pull requests to suggest changes.

(Seperate from your compelling arguments for why most things should come after wiki creation.)

Code is at https://gitlab.wikimedia.org/ladsgroup/phabricator-maintenance-bot

Thanks @Pppery !

In T380726#10386469, @Ladsgroup wrote:

The current thinking is to create the core of the wiki ASAP so contributors can start the work and the rest should be handled afterwards.

Also another big reason to push this to after the wiki creation is that only a handful of engineers/volunteers are comfortable with creating new wikis (in the past five years only Zabe, Martin, James F, you, and I created wikis) and since all of these people are already overwhelmed with other work, the less they need to do, the faster they can create the wiki. Anything that can be done by larger group of people (e.g. logo changes that gets done by a way larger group of engineers and volunteers) should be pushed to after wiki creation so more people can handle it. And this has worked quite well. Reducing time from request for creation in phabricator to the actual creation from months to days (and sometimes hours)

Anyone can upload the RESTBase change to Gerrit, that can be delegated or automated. It needs to be done. You can't say the wiki is ready to be used when it is spewing errors.

That being said, we can look at the problem in different ways:

• RESTbase is being phased out. I don't know the status of the work, but if it's in its deathbed, than we are wasting our time here.

According to @MSantos, it will be removed, "the work to complete this will be scheduled for next quarter".

• RESTbase can also instead of maintaining a long list of wikis, gather it from another list. e.g. language list for the DNS: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/dns/+/master/templates/helpers/langlist.tmpl

I reviewed the code considering this question. It would be a bit of a nuisance. There's a build step which takes the domain list and turns it into a static routing file. Maybe you could hack the build step to download from a URL instead of a local YAML file, but you'd still need to rebuild every time a wiki is created. The routing library (written by WMF) has a README explaining how proud it is to be simple and fast, hence no domain name regexes. The domain name ends up in the path, and then the endpoints exposed under that path vary depending on 2LD.

Not worth doing at this point.

• Even if that's not possible. It probably can be moved to dedicated file so we can create the patch for it automatically (the same way we create patches for DNS)

The patch could easily be made automatically. I'm not sure if that's worth doing either. It'll get used a single digit number of times before it's undeployed.

• If that's not the working either, then we need to make more people comfortable with creating wiki and also make people who create wikis comfortable with RESTbase deployment (I'm not, I haven't deployed RESTbase ever)

Well, @hnowlan gave my change +1, which I suppose counts as permission to deploy it. I don't think I've deployed it before, but how hard can it be?

Change #1099411 merged by Tim Starling:

[mediawiki/services/restbase/deploy@master] Add id.wikivoyage.org and tig.wikipedia.org

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1099411

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-09T03:57:59Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Started deploy [restbase/deploy@27f4a8e]: add 3 wikis T380726

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-09T04:08:45Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Finished deploy [restbase/deploy@27f4a8e]: add 3 wikis T380726 (duration: 10m 46s)

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-09T04:20:37Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Started deploy [restbase/deploy@27f4a8e]: try again, seems like restbase2026 at least was skipped T380726

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-09T04:29:37Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Finished deploy [restbase/deploy@27f4a8e]: try again, seems like restbase2026 at least was skipped T380726 (duration: 09m 00s)

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-09T04:31:15Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Started deploy [restbase/deploy@0531d4e]: try again after removing decom servers T380790 T380726

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-09T04:45:51Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Finished deploy [restbase/deploy@0531d4e]: try again after removing decom servers T380790 T380726 (duration: 14m 36s)

Change #1101237 had a related patch set uploaded (by Tim Starling; author: Tim Starling):

[mediawiki/services/restbase/deploy@master] Add RESTBase servers missing from scap targets

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1101237

Change #1101237 merged by Tim Starling:

[mediawiki/services/restbase/deploy@master] Add RESTBase servers missing from scap targets

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/1101237

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-09T05:23:42Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Started deploy [restbase/deploy@8184836]: also deploy to restbase2036-9 T380726 T377896

Mentioned in SAL (#wikimedia-operations) [2024-12-09T05:39:49Z] <tstarling@deploy2002> Finished deploy [restbase/deploy@8184836]: also deploy to restbase2036-9 T380726 T377896 (duration: 16m 06s)

Touching anything that's not been actively maintained for a while is always harder than you think.