Mentioned in SAL [2016-06-30T15:27:13Z] <thcipriani@tin> Synchronized dblists/clldefault.dblist: SWAT: [[gerrit:296501|Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 3.5) (T136677)]] (duration: 00m 26s)

For the case of Wikiquote it makes sense to access the quotes in their original version, and surfacing German in your example according to that makes sense. We are definitely interested in supporting these and other usecases that can be supported better.

The idea was captured in T70077.

Change 297349 had a related patch set uploaded (by KartikMistry):
Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 4)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/297349

Change 297349 merged by jenkins-bot:
Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 4)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/297349

Mentioned in SAL [2016-07-07T15:11:16Z] <thcipriani@tin> Synchronized wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php: SWAT: [[gerrit:297349|Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 4) (T136677)]] PART I (duration: 00m 55s)

Mentioned in SAL [2016-07-07T15:11:57Z] <thcipriani@tin> Synchronized dblists/clldefault.dblist: SWAT: [[gerrit:297349|Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 4) (T136677)]] PART II (duration: 00m 34s)

Change 298134 had a related patch set uploaded (by Dereckson):
State Compact Language Links isn't beta anymore

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/298134

Change 298134 merged by jenkins-bot:
State Compact Language Links isn't beta anymore

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/298134

Mentioned in SAL [2016-07-11T15:37:19Z] <thcipriani@tin> Synchronized wmf-config/CommonSettings.php: SWAT: [[gerrit:298134|State Compact Language Links is not beta anymore (T136677)]] (duration: 00m 26s)

@Dereckson Thanks for {{gerrit|298134}} patch.

You're welcome.

Change 298735 had a related patch set uploaded (by KartikMistry):
Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 4.5)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/298735

Change 298735 merged by jenkins-bot:
Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 4.5)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/298735

Am I writing in the right place? This feature is very poorly executed, just awful. The list is a total mess. First of all, the distinction between "big languages" an "common languages" makes no sense to a regular Wikipedia reader (at least in Finnish). In which universe are Interlingua and Volapük "big languages"? The layout and organization of others is haphazard at best. Under "North America" for instance, I might expect to find English, but instead I have Dutch. Seriously? Not to mention the fact that it's simply a poor idea to hide all of these language links behind a click – and into a freaking popup window – and attempt to categorize them geographically.

Why was no there no local discussion on this prior to implementation? I would have certainly given my opinion...

The mobile version works fine. There is a single list of languages. Not behind a click. A few of the most used languages get lifted up to the beginning of the list. This is fine, and pretty useful even. Why was not simply the same thing done here? Please, please, revert this back immediately.

Hi All! Please, tell me, what can I do to disable this "Compact Language Links" anywhere on any Wikimedia project. Because it definitely paralyses my work with them. It paralyses my work not only as Wikimedia project editor, but paralyses my work with all Wikimedia projects as sources of information anywhere outside of WMF. If You can't offer me, any usable solution, please tell me, where else could I defense my rights to non impeded information from any Wikimedia project as source. Thanks for answer.

In T136677#2468248, @Kusurija wrote:

Hi All! Please, tell me, what can I do to disable this "Compact Language Links" anywhere on any Wikimedia project. Because it definitely paralyses my work with them.

Hello, we are a bit limited at the moment by the lack of global settings to disable across all wikis (currently tracked at T120385) which we are following up for a long term solution. However, we have a workaround via Javascript for users who require this option for their immediate needs. You can find it here: T138282#2420872. Thank you.

Hello,

In T136677#2468246, @Epiq wrote:

Am I writing in the right place? This feature is very poorly executed, just awful. The list is a total mess. First of all, the distinction between "big languages" an "common languages" makes no sense to a regular Wikipedia reader (at least in Finnish). In which universe are Interlingua and Volapük "big languages"? The layout and organization of others is haphazard at best. Under "North America" for instance, I might expect to find English, but instead I have Dutch. Seriously? Not to mention the fact that it's simply a poor idea to hide all of these language links behind a click – and into a freaking popup window – and attempt to categorize them geographically.

I am not sure about the reference to 'big languages' in here. However, considering the examples like Interlingua and Volapük, its mostly likely the section called Worldwide languages which includes a mix of several major world languages like English, French, Chinese and also several artificial languages. This supplements the regional groups that you see in the same dialogue. We did notice that some languages were not being displayed in appropriate regional groups and this is now being tracked in a ticket (T137868)

The Common languages section is expected to list the most relevant languages for individual users as they keep selecting between languages as per their needs. If you don't see that happening, do please let us know.

Why was no there no local discussion on this prior to implementation? I would have certainly given my opinion...

The mobile version works fine. There is a single list of languages. Not behind a click. A few of the most used languages get lifted up to the beginning of the list. This is fine, and pretty useful even. Why was not simply the same thing done here? Please, please, revert this back immediately.

As my team mate @Pginer-WMF has already mentioned earlier in this ticket, prior to start of the gradual deployment, the beta feature was enabled for nearly 2 years and we fixed different issues the users helped us to identify. We are open to ideas on how to better collect community feedback as part of our processes, so please feel free to provide any suggestion regarding that. Thanks.

I am not sure about the reference to 'big languages' in here. However, considering the examples like Interlingua and Volapük, its mostly likely the section called Worldwide languages which includes a mix of several major world languages like English, French, Chinese and also several artificial languages. This supplements the regional groups that you see in the same dialogue.

All right, this seems to be a problem with the translation, then. I have no idea what these terms are supposed to be in English, as the feature does not seem to be enabled in the English wiki. In Finnish they make no sense. I still maintain that trying to group the languages like this is unnecessarily complicated.

As my team mate @Pginer-WMF has already mentioned earlier in this ticket, prior to start of the gradual deployment, the beta feature was enabled for nearly 2 years and we fixed different issues the users helped us to identify. We are open to ideas on how to better collect community feedback as part of our processes, so please feel free to provide any suggestion regarding that. Thanks.

I'm just a regular editor, so I don't know what has been beta-tested and where (I guess I should be paying more attention, somewhere?). What I meant was that I have not seen any community discussion within my local Wikipedia whether or not anyone would actually like to have this feature or not (nor any information about it prior to implementation from your end). It's kind of amazing that the feature seems this messed up after two years of development.

As for my suggestions, I gave them above. Please make the list more simple, and get rid of the pop-up window. A similar approach that you had for the mobile version would be good. I don't understand the need for this kind of complexity. I mean seriously, compare the situation in the English wiki and the Finnish one: which list is more complicated to navigate, the English one with 17 languages – or the Finnish one with a separate scrollable pop-up window, five different categories and two columns of text!?

There's one other point I would like to make. I recognise the fact that I am probably in a fairly small minority of Wikipedia readers, but hiding the interwiki links like this actually causes me a lot of extra trouble instead of helping me. I am interested in a fairly wide array of languages, as well as seeing, which languages are available for a given topic. For example, on the Finnish Wikipedia page on Philippe Buonarroti (https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Buonarroti), nine interwiki links are shown and seven are hidden. I have to open a pop-up window to know which languages they are. Instead of showing me a list of those previously hidden languages, I have a long list of all the available languages grouped into six (!) different categories, some geographical and some not, with some languages repeated (e.g. Russian is on the list three times). If I was searching for Hungarian, for instance, I would have no way of knowing whether it actually exists, and I would have to browse through a long and confusingly, unintuitively arranged list to actually know that yes, there is a Hungarian article available on the topic.

It seems to be a larger trend to only show users content that a service presumes that they would be interested in. I'm sure that this is often terribly useful, although sometimes problematic (as in the case of Google algorithms that leave out certain search results and bring up others, for example). Here, however, that is currently executed in a way that I find quite annoying. Using a simple, alphabetised list in which what you see is all there is can in many situations actually be easier, more equal, neutral and helpful. Browsing different languages and moving between them, which I like to do a lot, becomes much more difficult with this kind of an arrangement.

Change 301555 had a related patch set uploaded (by KartikMistry):
Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 5)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/301555

Change 301555 merged by jenkins-bot:
Deploy Compact Language Links as default (Stage 5)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/301555

In T136677#2395865, @Pginer-WMF wrote:

In T136677#2394187, @Natuur12 wrote:

Per Taketa. This really works terrible. You should have sought consensus before deploying this.

We are especially interested in examples where the default language list makes it more convenient to select the language you are interested in accessing. If you can give some examples where the proposed selector makes it worse than the default one with some context on the purpose of the selection that would be really useful.

My apologies that it took me so long to reply. I forgot about it. I often have to revert the Commons delinker bot. Being able to easily check the articles not listed by the delinker bot log is a great help for me. (Providing an extra service to the community) Also, when adding images a about a person, species etc I add it to all the available language versions. Last but not least. When tracking a cross wiki vandal it also comes in handy to be able to quickly check every article via the interwiki links. If you would just fix global settings instead first there would not be a problem at all.

Thanks @Natuur12, for the additional details about those usecases.
These are totally valid scenarios and it would be great to see how we can better support them. Some ideas such as facilitating the reuse of images across languages (T54464) or allowing a cross-language navigation mode such as providing controls/shortcuts to move to next/previous language version of the article (T144408).

Meanwhile, accessing the "edit links" action which leads to the Wikidata interlanguage links table could be also an alternative to have a more static table of language links less aimed at language switching.

The availability of global settings is something outside the scope of our project, but I also agree that this would be something that would have a positive impact on this and many other projects.

In T136677#3163920, @Amire80 wrote:

Not yet :)

If you're asking the Russian Wikivoyage: T138524: Disable Compact Language Links on Russian Wikivoyage If not, err... which project is still not enabling CLL for all users? Or for all anonymous users (i.e. T159620: Option for anonymous users to disable/enable compact language links)?

English and German Wikipedias. Will be deployed there Soon, but there's no precise date yet.

Did wikisource decide to not have this enabled? I can't seem to find anything about it being deployed to them.

I don't remember that there was a discussion in any of the Wikisource projects about this; certainly not one that I have started.

When we began working on Compact Language Links, Wikisource used interlanguage in a way that is quite different from Wikipedia. Many pages had several translations, so there could be multiple links to the same languages, and it's a scenario that is not handled by Compact Language Links well. It's possible that this has changed since then; I haven't looked at this closely in a while.

Navigation between languages in Wikisource is definitely something that I plan to improve some day, and Compact Language Links will likely be a part of that effort, but before it's done, the current usage must be examined carefully.

Ah, so that just leaves enwiki then?

In T136677#3843757, @TerraCodes wrote:

Ah, so that just leaves enwiki then?

Yep.

In T136677#3843758, @Amire80 wrote:

In T136677#3843757, @TerraCodes wrote:

Ah, so that just leaves enwiki then?

Yep.

ah, thanks~