I was active there for a while and then I had to leave because the way they engaged with (what I consider) good faith and politely presented but against the grain opinions, was to pile on negativity and eventually temp ban me. :)
A dissenting view: I think that tildes is prone to the same sorts of pathologies as other forums based on a similar model, like lobsters, hackernews, and reddit. I think that, on the whole and for the most part, both lobsters and tildes represent something towards the better end of the spectrum of what you can achieve under the constraints of that model. I described some of my general concern with the model here. I don’t find tildes in balance to be significantly worse than lobsters; how exactly the two stack up I haven’t thought about in enough detail to say (and, of course, they are not trying to do quite the same thing).
I agree, I don’t dislike tildes at all, I think they’re a far better community than most on reddit. However I had a bad experience and I decided to “punish” them to the best of my abilities: I stopped contributing.
Are you sure Lobsters is transparent in that way? I was thinking about being able to know what post(s) a user was banned for, which Lobsters appears to keep secret based on e.g. https://lobste.rs/u/ddevault
Ok, maybe not for bans, I can’t say I’ve looked at lobste.rs’ mod list too thoroughly, but tildes has no mod log whatsoever as far as I remember.
[edit] Some bans are visible in the mod log. You can check only the “users” filter to see. And speaking of ddevault, on his profile I see the ban reason given by the mod. I’m not sure why the confusion on your part. :D
I think everything you want is in the log, it’s not not conveniently presented. Every comment thanks moderated is shown and so is the ban. People aren’t typically banned for a single comment, they’re banned for a pattern of behaviour and you can find that by going back in the log. I’m not sure if there’s a way to see the content of the moderated posts though.
EDIT: I went to the moderation log to see if the user who posted a spa,my story yesterday had been banned. They had but, other than the fact that they’re back to back in the moderation log, there’s no obvious connection between their post and the ban. The ‘ask’ story that was moderated is just gone, there’s no way to see what it was beyond the title (which is fairly innocuous), and you can’t see who the author of the story was to correlate the two things. It would be nice if the original text of moderated stories and comments were visible (at least to members, I’m happy they don’t get indexed by search engines) in the moderation log.
I think that’s to be expected, if users are not typically banned for a handful of posts but are instead banned because they keep doing bad things. I would assume that going back in the log and finding other moderated posts by a particular user would give a picture of why they’re banned, because I’d expect that all of them would be somewhat contributory. The problem is that this just has the moderator’s comment on the post, there’s no way (that I found) of seeing what that post was and whether I agree with the moderator’s comment.
Still not sure if you’re agreeing with me, or if you know something I don’t.
I would assume that going back in the log and finding other moderated posts by a particular user would give a picture of why they’re banned, because I’d expect that all of them would be somewhat contributory.
As an illustration, can you find out what was @ddevault’s last post before he was banned? I was unable to.
The issue with Drew’s work is that they’re really really good at riling people up, and people posted their blog posts and takes here, and people got mad about them, and Drew very often jumped in and riled people up even more. It seems they’ve since regretted this behavior:
But sometimes a mod will have to make the decision to ban someone for their collective influence, not just a specific action or post. It’s one of the things that makes moderation really hard, and maybe @pushcx can find the time to expand on this with you in private conversation.
A more recent comment by @ddevault made after their account was banned? I don’t follow.
As pointed out by @david_chisnall, the mod log is hard to search, because it’s just a linear log. That said, at least there is a mod log, and while I’m sure a lot of the motivations could be more expansive, mod time is expensive.
I’m half agreeing with you. The action to ban ddevault is currently on page 61 of the moderation log (this will change, because the pagination is reverse chronological). The entry immediately before that was banning his domain with the comment:
Reason: I’m tired of merging hot takes, or cleaning up after the results of his trolling and sourcehut promotion.
So this was probably the direct reason. Scrolling back, I can’t actually find any comments that were moderated, so probably they were flagged but didn’t quite reach the moderation threshold, which means that there’s no record. I also can’t tell which story triggered the ban on the domain.
It would help me to know what part you disagree with because that is basically what I’ve been saying: that you can’t find out what posts someone was banned for. On the one hand mods can ban users without identifying offending comments, and on the other hand we can’t even see which comments were removed or moderated leading up to a ban.
Anyone have invites? This is intriguing to me, I’m hopeful about the broader move away from VC funding, at least for things that aren’t really capital intensive.
There’s a limited-invite thing on their subreddit about every week or so, and you can also email [email protected] (don’t know the success rate with that one).
Not to be confused with tilde.town!
Or tilde.club! I also thought this is going to be related to the tilde-type servers, from the title.
I was active there for a while and then I had to leave because the way they engaged with (what I consider) good faith and politely presented but against the grain opinions, was to pile on negativity and eventually temp ban me. :)
A dissenting view: I think that tildes is prone to the same sorts of pathologies as other forums based on a similar model, like lobsters, hackernews, and reddit. I think that, on the whole and for the most part, both lobsters and tildes represent something towards the better end of the spectrum of what you can achieve under the constraints of that model. I described some of my general concern with the model here. I don’t find tildes in balance to be significantly worse than lobsters; how exactly the two stack up I haven’t thought about in enough detail to say (and, of course, they are not trying to do quite the same thing).
I agree, I don’t dislike tildes at all, I think they’re a far better community than most on reddit. However I had a bad experience and I decided to “punish” them to the best of my abilities: I stopped contributing.
Do they at least publish details about why people are banned?
No, not in a similarly transparent way as lobste.rs.
Are you sure Lobsters is transparent in that way? I was thinking about being able to know what post(s) a user was banned for, which Lobsters appears to keep secret based on e.g. https://lobste.rs/u/ddevault
Ok, maybe not for bans, I can’t say I’ve looked at lobste.rs’ mod list too thoroughly, but tildes has no mod log whatsoever as far as I remember.
[edit] Some bans are visible in the mod log. You can check only the “users” filter to see. And speaking of ddevault, on his profile I see the ban reason given by the mod. I’m not sure why the confusion on your part. :D
Do you notice a difference between what I asked about and what’s available in the log or on the profile of a banned user?
I think everything you want is in the log, it’s not not conveniently presented. Every comment thanks moderated is shown and so is the ban. People aren’t typically banned for a single comment, they’re banned for a pattern of behaviour and you can find that by going back in the log. I’m not sure if there’s a way to see the content of the moderated posts though.
EDIT: I went to the moderation log to see if the user who posted a spa,my story yesterday had been banned. They had but, other than the fact that they’re back to back in the moderation log, there’s no obvious connection between their post and the ban. The ‘ask’ story that was moderated is just gone, there’s no way to see what it was beyond the title (which is fairly innocuous), and you can’t see who the author of the story was to correlate the two things. It would be nice if the original text of moderated stories and comments were visible (at least to members, I’m happy they don’t get indexed by search engines) in the moderation log.
So to clarify, the log doesn’t tell you what post(s) a user was banned for. That part at least is missing.
I think that’s to be expected, if users are not typically banned for a handful of posts but are instead banned because they keep doing bad things. I would assume that going back in the log and finding other moderated posts by a particular user would give a picture of why they’re banned, because I’d expect that all of them would be somewhat contributory. The problem is that this just has the moderator’s comment on the post, there’s no way (that I found) of seeing what that post was and whether I agree with the moderator’s comment.
Still not sure if you’re agreeing with me, or if you know something I don’t.
As an illustration, can you find out what was @ddevault’s last post before he was banned? I was unable to.
Going via their profile page https://lobste.rs/u/ddevault and clicking on Comments, leads to this one:
https://lobste.rs/s/2brhes/think_twice_before_abandoning_xorg#c_krzybe
Edit I now see you were asking about submissions, they are here
https://lobste.rs/newest/ddevault
The issue with Drew’s work is that they’re really really good at riling people up, and people posted their blog posts and takes here, and people got mad about them, and Drew very often jumped in and riled people up even more. It seems they’ve since regretted this behavior:
https://drewdevault.com/2022/05/30/bleh.html
But sometimes a mod will have to make the decision to ban someone for their collective influence, not just a specific action or post. It’s one of the things that makes moderation really hard, and maybe @pushcx can find the time to expand on this with you in private conversation.
But do we know that there wasn’t a more recent comment that the mods removed?
A more recent comment by @ddevault made after their account was banned? I don’t follow.
As pointed out by @david_chisnall, the mod log is hard to search, because it’s just a linear log. That said, at least there is a mod log, and while I’m sure a lot of the motivations could be more expansive, mod time is expensive.
No, a more recent comment made before their account was banned.
I’m not just talking about submissions. Any content posted that led to a ban, which could have been removed.
I’m half agreeing with you. The action to ban ddevault is currently on page 61 of the moderation log (this will change, because the pagination is reverse chronological). The entry immediately before that was banning his domain with the comment:
So this was probably the direct reason. Scrolling back, I can’t actually find any comments that were moderated, so probably they were flagged but didn’t quite reach the moderation threshold, which means that there’s no record. I also can’t tell which story triggered the ban on the domain.
Negative karma comments are deleted when users are banned or delete their account.
It would help me to know what part you disagree with because that is basically what I’ve been saying: that you can’t find out what posts someone was banned for. On the one hand mods can ban users without identifying offending comments, and on the other hand we can’t even see which comments were removed or moderated leading up to a ban.
No, not really. What am I missing? Is the “reason” not “details”?
The reason is not details, and it doesn’t tell you what post(s) a user was banned for. See how I said that’s what I had in mind a few comments back?
I understand what you meant now, there’s no need to be patronizing about it.
You could have said my previous comment was patronizing too, but it turned out to be not explicit enough.
Anyone have invites? This is intriguing to me, I’m hopeful about the broader move away from VC funding, at least for things that aren’t really capital intensive.
Sure, I have 10. I’ll DM one to you. If anyone else wants one, please DM me here.
Update: I’ve given them all away.
I also have invites if pushcx runs out
I apparently have an account with invites too. DM me for one.
I also have invites if someone is interested
I also have invites.
…also, anyone we invite has invites.
I’m interested if anyone still has any left, thanks!
If you got one could you send one to me?
hey caleb, you may have already gotten this or moved on but in case you haven’t :) https://tildes.net/register?code=SQPWL-NO367-SAY33
thanks I will use it!
I’d be interested if anyone still has, thanks!
Can I have one?
Can you send me an invite if you got yours?
If you (or anyone else) have one remaining, I would be interested
Update, I have now distributed 10 invites to users here. Have fun!
There’s a limited-invite thing on their subreddit about every week or so, and you can also email [email protected] (don’t know the success rate with that one).
I can attest that I have received an invite after a couple of days.
I had an email invite like 10 minutes after posting this, thanks ya’ll!
I’ve got 5 if anyone wants one
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