User talk:PotatoKing147
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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Ultimateria (talk) 16:21, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
Danish and Bokmål
[edit]Hi there, I have noticed over time that you, through your edits, seem to believe that the great amount of Danish words in Bokmål was borrowed into Bokmål. Since the changes have been quickly reverted by other users I have not bothered posting on your page until now, but edit-warring is counter-productive, so I wanted to give you an explanation why I (and probably others) believe that these edits are incorrect.
Since Bokmål was evolved gradually from Danish, it is not possible to find a point in time where Bokmål stopped being Danish (it is even possible to consider it a dialect/variety of Danish to this day, but I will skip that discussion for now). Words like tyve were there all along, so there is no point in time where they were borrowed into Bokmål. Tagging them as borrowings are therefore incorrect; they were inherited from Danish along with the grammar. When spelling reforms started pulling Bokmål in a different direction some of them gradually fell out of use or received a spelling that would better fit the orthographic principles of Nynorsk, but they still have an unbroken line back to Late Modern Danish (yngre nydansk).
I would like to ask that from now on you only tag Danish words in Bokmål as borrowed if they actually were borrowed from (Contemporary) Danish. An example would be bil. I firmly believe that this better represents how these languages and the relationship between them have evolved.
2001:2020:31B:E7FA:F81D:BF88:EFC:681E 22:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
- Hello, I appreciate the thorough explanation, I'll take all of it into consideration in my future edits.
- I feel like I should still give reasons for why I do these edits though, and the reason is because I see that there's a lot of inconsistencies in bokmål with what's considered being a decendant from Danish and what's a decendant from Old Norse, with some words being the same a the Danish words and still being decendants from Old Norse, and some written differently but still from Danish. And the other reason is because there's inconsistencies with what people consider to be borrowings from Danish or not, and for tyve/syv, I changed it to a borrowing since that's what the decendants from Old Danish showed, but not on the decendants from Old Norse page.
- But I understand what's considered a borrowing into Norwegian bokmål and what's a decendant into Norwegian bokmål now (even though there's still some inconsistencies with what's a Danish or Old Norse borrowing) and I'll take them into consideration from now on. PotatoKing147 (talk) 12:00, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
- When I judging if a Bokmål word of Danish origin or not or if it is a later borrowing from Danish or Nynorsk, I just check the history of development of this word. NAOB dictionary is very helpful, but it is often worth to check etymology given in Danish Dictionary (also the historical ones like Moth'a and Kalkar's). Also, there are some Norwegian words borrowed into Danish. Also, many short Bokmål words are conjugated differently from Danish, even during the early Riksmål times. But I've met older Norwegian people speaking very Riksmål-ish, but using Danish conjugation of words like stol. Tollef Salemann (talk) 15:34, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- This is definitely very useful information to me, I didn't think about checking NAOB or Danish dictionaries as much, but I'll defintely do so now. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely take them into consideration in my next edits. PotatoKing147 (talk) 19:40, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, i have no problems with your edits, just giving some tipses. Also, for etymology i reccommend to check onp.ku.dk (if you need to find some Norrøn stuff with usage examples), and also SAOB (old Swedish dictionary with very good etymology sections often comparing Swedish, Danish and dialectal Norwegian). Tollef Salemann (talk) 20:09, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- Those links you sent are actually incredibly useful for me, it's what I've been looking for for a while actually. Is there any chance you know of any links to the ethomology of Middle Norwegian (or Old Danish) as well? Since I tried looking for it, but couldn't find anything satisfactory. PotatoKing147 (talk) 12:21, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- Old Danish is Kalkar's and Moth's Dictionaries (not really old, but at least 3-4 hundred years). SAOB gives almost always examples of old Swedish spellings from ca. 1500s. Tollef Salemann (talk) 14:00, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'll definitely give those a look, thanks for the help! PotatoKing147 (talk) 14:37, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- Old Danish is Kalkar's and Moth's Dictionaries (not really old, but at least 3-4 hundred years). SAOB gives almost always examples of old Swedish spellings from ca. 1500s. Tollef Salemann (talk) 14:00, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- Those links you sent are actually incredibly useful for me, it's what I've been looking for for a while actually. Is there any chance you know of any links to the ethomology of Middle Norwegian (or Old Danish) as well? Since I tried looking for it, but couldn't find anything satisfactory. PotatoKing147 (talk) 12:21, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, i have no problems with your edits, just giving some tipses. Also, for etymology i reccommend to check onp.ku.dk (if you need to find some Norrøn stuff with usage examples), and also SAOB (old Swedish dictionary with very good etymology sections often comparing Swedish, Danish and dialectal Norwegian). Tollef Salemann (talk) 20:09, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- This is definitely very useful information to me, I didn't think about checking NAOB or Danish dictionaries as much, but I'll defintely do so now. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely take them into consideration in my next edits. PotatoKing147 (talk) 19:40, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- When I judging if a Bokmål word of Danish origin or not or if it is a later borrowing from Danish or Nynorsk, I just check the history of development of this word. NAOB dictionary is very helpful, but it is often worth to check etymology given in Danish Dictionary (also the historical ones like Moth'a and Kalkar's). Also, there are some Norwegian words borrowed into Danish. Also, many short Bokmål words are conjugated differently from Danish, even during the early Riksmål times. But I've met older Norwegian people speaking very Riksmål-ish, but using Danish conjugation of words like stol. Tollef Salemann (talk) 15:34, 25 August 2024 (UTC)