Template talk:Latin American Canadians

Haitians are Latinos

Haiti is the first independent Latin American country. Haitians speak a French dialect. French is a Latin based language just as Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian are. Spanish speaking Latinos are no more Latino than Latin Americans that speak French or Portuguese! Latino is a word that is greatly misused and misunderstood. People think Latino is equal to short, dark, and brown, in otherwords, neither Black nor White! However, the Ancient Latins were definitely a White people who were neither short, nor dark, nor brown!

Modern day Latinos define a wide group of varying peoples that speak Latin based languages. Millions of Latinos are White, millions of Latinos are Black, and millions of Latinos are Brown (i.e. Mulatto or Mixed). In all honesty, if Latin or Latino was used in its most truthful manner, it would refer to Whites only, since the Ancient Latins were a White tribe, and since 99.99 percent of Spaniards, Portuguese, French, Italians, and Romanians are also indeed White! Furthermore, it would only be a term to use for those people today who are predominantly or 100 percent Latin blood in origin, but I seriously doubt any exists today, even in Italy, where they came to power! All other Latinos are merely Latinized peoples thus, not true Latinos! But, for simplicity's sake, I'll use Latino in its loose sense.

Another point that needs to be established is that Hispanic is not synonymous with Latino. Hispanics refer to only Spanish speaking Latinos. This brings me to another point. Spanish speaking Latinos are the only group of Latinos that are givin official status as a group, Hispanic! Those that speak Portuguese aren't givin their own distinct label, nor are those that speak French! Seems a bit discriminatory doesn't it! Even Hispanic is a vastly misused and misunderstood term. Hispanic technically means Spanish and the vast majority of Spaniards, some 99.99 percent are White! Hispanic derives from Hispania, the Roman name for Spain. As the Spanish dialects diverged, it soon became Espana.

Another point of importance is that the term Latin America was coined by the French in reference to their own colonies in the Americas! Thus, French/Spanish speaking Cajuns and French speaking Canadians can rightfully be called Latinos!

--CoCoLumps (Love yourself) 04:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The vast majority of academic sources don't include Haiti within Latin America.Your argument carries no weight without citation to authority that shows your view is the majority view. Here are a few sources that contradict your argument:

"Latin America". The New Oxford Dictionary of English. Pearsall, J., ed. 2001. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press; p. 1040: "The parts of the American continent where Spanish or Portuguese is the main national language (i.e. Mexico and, in effect, the whole of Central and South America including many of the Caribbean islands)."

[1]: "Haiti is an anomalous country. Geographically, it is in the Caribbean, and by extension, the Western Hemisphere. But it is not part of Latin America, much less Anglo-Saxon America."

[2] "Haitians, who are identified as black Caribbean immigrants and not Latinos . . ."Goodsdrew (talk) 15:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Humes, Karen R.; Jones, Nicholas A.; Ramirez, Roberto R. "Overview of Race and Hispanic Origin: 2010" (PDF). U.S. Census Bureau. Retrieved 2011-03-28. "Hispanic or Latino" refers to a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish or Portuguese culture or origin regardless of race.

"American FactFinder Help: Hispanic or Latino origin". United States Census Bureau. Retrieved 2008-10-05. For Census 2000, American Community Survey: People who identify with the terms "Hispanic" or "Latino" are those who classify themselves in one of the specific Hispanic or Latino categories listed on the Census 2000 or ACS questionnaire - "Mexican," "Puerto Rican," or "Cuban" - as well as those who indicate that they are "other Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino." Origin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States. People who identify their origin as Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino may be of any "race".
1990 Census of Population and Housing: A self-designated classification for people whose origins are from Spain, the Spanish-speaking countries of Central or South America, the Caribbean, or those identifying themselves generally as Spanish, Spanish-American, etc. Origin can be viewed as ancestry, nationality, or country of birth of the person or person's parents or ancestors prior to their arrival in the United States.

"Latino: People with roots in the Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking Americas. This broader term, mostly used in the United States, is sometimes used as a replacement for Hispanic. http://csuchico-dspace.calstate.edu/handle/10211.4/222

http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/mexicanamerica/glossary.html (Defining "Hispanic" as meaning those with Spanish-speaking roots in the Americas and "Latino" as meaning those with both Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking roots in Latin America.)

So far, the vast weight of sources that have been cited in this discussion say that Haitians are not Latino / Latin American. CoCoLumps is the only person in this thread arguing that Haitians should be identified as being Latino / Latin American. Let's try to reach consensus here. CoCoLumps--do you have any sources that support your views? Otherwise, the vast weight of the evidence points to reverting back to list Haitians as not being Latin American. As with our discussion at Talk:Haitian Canadians, Template talk:Hispanics/Latinos, and Talk:Haitian American, I propose that if no sources are forthcoming, and if no one else chimes in to support the idea that Haitians are Latino, then I think we need to follow the sources and remove the references to Latino / Latin America. Let's give it 5-7 days and see where things stand. Anyone opposed? Goodsdrew (talk) 14:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

The sources that you have cited in this discussion are U.S. base and their definitions about Latin America are a bit incorrect. I'm fully aware the term Latin America does not always include Haiti however that doesn't mean their not part of Latin America. I already cited more than one source that indicates Haitians are infact Latino and Latin American, I don't mind providing more source.

"Hispanic: anyone from a country that speaks Spanish. (DOES not include Brazil) Hispanic: is NOT a racial category but denotes ETHNIC heritage. Hispanic is the term used by the US government.

Latino: Anyone from a country whose language is a romance language. It includes Haitians, Brazilians, etc. Latino is used for more informal communication. Latino is more a term adopted by the Latin population itself.

• However, most Latino people prefer to be called by their country of origin and nothing else: Cuban, Ecuadorian, Colombian, Puerto Rican, etc.

Latino is preferred because:

- It relates directly to the experience of Latin-American people living in the USA. Therefore it defines a process of hybridization, combination and selection of cultural values. A transcultural term. It is not Latin-American nor American, it is both and a new thing at the same time. Therefore, it expresses paradox, complexity and defiance.

- It denotes people who are the product of Latin-Indian and/or Latin-Black mestizaje and it is generally used by working class people. It affirms the cultures and people dominated by Mediterranean civilization in its career throughout the New World.

- It suggests ethnic pride and cultural affirmation and solidarity among all Latino people fighting against racism, sexism and classism."

http://www.uhu.es/antonia.dominguez/latin/introduction.htm

Latin America, noun, the part of the American continents south of the United States in which Spanish, Portuguese, or French is officially spoken.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Latin+America

"Haiti was the first independent nation of Latin America and the Caribbean, the black-led republic in the world, and the second republic in the Americas when it gained independence in 1804; as part of a successful slave revolution lasting nearly a decade (1791-1804)."

History and Culture of Haiti --CoCoLumps (Love yourself) 08:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Your first source is just someone's personal website and is not a reliable source under Wikipedia guidelines. Your other two sources are contradicted by the seven sources I've provided. With the weight of sources in this discussion indicating that Haitians do not qualify and without anyone else objecting to removing references to Haiti, it is clear that Haitians should not be listed in this article and I am removing the reference.Goodsdrew (talk) 21:04, 11 June 2013 (UTC)