Talk:Legionella

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2021 and 14 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SamMHall.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Not just cooling towers

All the Legionella sections are now too focused on Cooling towers!! IT is not just cooling towers!! Certainly, cooling towers are one aspect of the infection path, but it is just out of the many sources of infection.

Also noted that in different parts of the world different types of Legionella are prevelant. For example in Western Australia infection by Legionella longbeachae originating from compost and soil is the most common form of infection - yet it seems someone deleted that part entirely.Hongkonger 07:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I am a new Wiki editor working on this page and have recently added new subsections about different types of exposure to Legionella. I agree that this page was too heavily focused on exposure from cooling towers, so I also rearranged the beginning of the article so that the previous section title "Cooling Towers" is now "Airborne exposure". I also added the subsections "Recreational exposure" and "Exposure related to natural disasters and climate change". This new information with updated sources will hopefully add to the idea that there are other ways to be exposed to Legionella spp. besides just cooling towers events. The three subsections on exposure are now organized under the subheading of "Sources of Legionella". SamMHall (talk) 23:40, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Pas-de-Calais, France

The factory in Pas-de-Calais France that caused infection - the cooling towers were never certainly identified beyond any resonable doubt as the source.

Both the cooling towers, and the waste treatment ponds, and the remote site where the pond sludge was sourced tested positive for the same strain. Hence the imported sludge dumped into the waste treatment ponds was the primary source, distributed into the air causing secondary contamination of the cooling towers, etc.

And yes I am aware that the official report states the source was the cooling towers, but don't believe everything you read, otherwise in future others will not learn, and are all doomed to keep making the same mistakes over again. Hongkonger 07:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Reverted unwarranted and incorrect deletions made by Noigel2000

Noigel, you should not delete a major part of any article without first a thorough discussion on the Discussion page. Therefore, I have reverted your changes. I know that you are very new to Wikipedia, but the pattern of behavior and your derogatory remarks about Wikipedia (on the Legionellosis discussion page) are going to get you blocked from Wikipedia if you do not change your attitude.

When you unilaterally made your unwarranted deletions on this article, you also removed the References section, which further messed up the article. Legionella and Legionellosis are two separate articles and they both need to include the information on how to prevent and control cooling towers from becoming contaminated with the Legionella bacteria. - mbeychok 15:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

you had the gal to remove my links to my pages, dont do it again as i also have a delete button as you may have noticed you dont really need two articles, ones enough, its confusing people.

What derogatory remarks, you mean click click click, your nuts

--Noigel2000 15:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Changed legionellosis to legionnaires' disease, link above says legionnaires' disease, corrected spelling of the word legionnaires'in link above

Time you two so and so's took a ball and chalk --Noigel2000 14:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

External links

External links to patient support groups (especially online chat boards), blogs, and fundraising groups normally not accepted on Wikipedia. Also, to prevent a proliferation of links, it's good to avoid more than one link to any website. Please read the external links policy and the specific rules for medical articles before adding more external links. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Temperature

I was trying to verify the growth/kill temperature ranges, but I was unable to find any really reputable sources (research papers), I have found only multiple web articles which most likely only quote information obtained somewhere else, without quoting a source.

The temperature ranges quoted in the related article Legionellosis match the ranges I have provided, but are sourced as http://www.relianceworldwide.com/site/fs_main_home.htm, which does not provide any real information at all. Similarly, the http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/iacl27.pdf cited here now does not seem to provide any temperature information at all. The link provided before as http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/ was not specific enough - there was no temperature at that page, only multiple documents linked, but even none of them does not seem to contain this information. BIS Ondrej (talk) 09:13, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

---

I was trying to verify the temperatures/growth rates shown in this Wiki as well. I came across a paper at the WHO (at http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/emerging/legionella.pdf) that contradicts the temperatures given in this Wiki. In section 2.2.1 it says:

Legionellae have been isolated from hot-water systems up to 66 ºC; however, at temperatures above 70 ºC they are destroyed almost instantly (Dennis, Green & Jones, 1984; Dennis, 1988b). Kusnetsov et al. (1996) found that growth of all strains tested decreased at temperatures above 44–45 ºC, with the growth-limiting temperature being between 48.4 ºC and 50.0 ºC. The Legionella strains studied produced carbon dioxide up to 51.6 ºC, suggesting that some respiratory enzymes survive at this temperature. Complex water systems, such as warm-water plumbing systems, air‑conditioners and hot tubs (also known as spa pools), are increasingly using water in the temperature range that encourages Legionella growth. In addition, these water systems can potentially produce aerosols, increasing the spread of the bacteria. Strains of L. pneumophila have been shown to have a decimal reduction time (D) of 80–124 minutes at 50 ºC, and of 2 minutes at 60 ºC (Dennis, Green & Jones, 1984; Schulze-Robbecke, Rodder & Exner, 1987). Isolates can be collected easily from many different environmental aquatic sources with temperatures between 30 ºC and 70 ºC (Fliermans, 1984). For example, legionellae have been isolated from frozen rivers, thermal ponds and springs, and aquatic sources in the vicinity of a volcano (Tison & Seidler, 1983). Yee & Wadowsky (1982) showed that naturally occurring L. pneumophila survived and multiplied in water at temperatures between 25 ºC and 45 ºC, with an optimal temperature range of 32–42 ºC. The study also found that legionellae were most commonly isolated at temperatures between 35 ºC and 45 ºC, with the greatest increase in viable counts occurring between 37 ºC and 42 ºC (Wadowsky & Yee, 1983; Schulze- Robbecke, Rodder & Exner, 1987). As the temperature falls below 37 ºC, the bacteria’s reproductive rate decreases and there is little or no increase in numbers of bacteria below 20 ºC.

Based on this info, I'm going to edit the wiki entry. If anyone could look for the source materials, that'd be great...

Molasseskat (talk) 00:49, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Confused by Copper-Silver Ionisation.

I can't really understand what this section is trying to say, especially the second sentence. Please see more detailed comments below. Could someone who understand the subject please tidy it up?

The text in normal type is the text from the article. My comments are in italics.

Industrial-size what does "industrial-size mean here? Can ionisation have a size?

copper-silver ionization is recognized by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and WHO for Legionella control and prevention. 

The next sentence makes no sense to me. When copper and silver ions maintained, when taking into account both water flow and overall water usage, the disinfection function within all of a facilities water distribution network will occur within 30 to 45 days. The detail in the following text seems unnecessary and out of place to me. And if these are "but a few" the required features, then surely this requires a separate article on the subject and should be deleted. Key engineering features such as 10 amps per ion chamber cell and automated variable voltage outputs having no less than 0–100 VDC are but a few of the required features for proper Legionella control and prevention. Swimming pool ion generators are not engineered for facility potable water Legionella control and prevention.

Just for good measure, the last sentence is not gramatically correct ("facility potable water").

Marchino61 (talk) 07:07, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Full of errors

I haven't checked on this in a few years (sorry) the very first line has been changed and it obviously incorrect, LpS1 causes either LD or Pontiac fever, L. Longbeachae Sp1 and 2 is the same as LpS1 but the source of bacteria is not aqueous it is found in compost/dust. In fact in 2012 there was a number of L. Longbeachae cases in scotland [1] Hongkonger (talk) 16:38, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

I find here are countless little errors in this page, incorrect facts and citations, and related text e.g. L. longbeachae Hongkonger (talk) 17:16, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Legionella/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

In-line references needed - especially for non-cooling tower sections....

Last edited at 21:33, 10 August 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 21:50, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Glycine is an antibiotic?

The section on Detection refers to "... inoculation onto a charcoal yeast extract agar containing antibiotics (e.g. glycine, vancomycin, polymixin, cyclohexamide, GVPC) ..."

I'm reasonably sure the amino acid glycine is not an antibiotic. Was another word meant here, or is this a very strange error? IAmNitpicking (talk) 21:31, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Though not your classic antibiotic, glycine is correct here. Glycine at high concentrations inhibits the growth of many types of bacteria. See this paper [2] for a proposed mechanism. CatPath (talk) 22:54, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Chlorine dioxide

Section § Chlorine dioxide yesterday read:

Chlorine dioxide is not a restricted heavy metal like copper. It has proven excellent control of Legionella in cold and hot water systems and its ability as a biocide is not affected by pH, or any water corrosion inhibitors such as silica or phosphate. However, it is 'quenched' by metal oxides, especially manganese and iron. Metal oxide concentrations above 0.5 mg/l may inhibit its activity.<Australian Drinking Water Guidelines>

Seems that somebody intended to cite the "Australian Drinking Water Guidelines". However, this information ("metal oxide") was not found in the Australian government publication "AUSTRALIAN DRINKING WATER GUIDELINES 6 - 2011 - VERSION 3.4 - UPDATED OCTOBER 2017" [3], retrieved today (31 July 2018). So I've marked this passage {{cn|date=July 2018}}, and suppressed the text "<Australian Drinking Water Guidelines>". Does anybody have a useful reference to support the quoted statements about "metal oxides, especially manganese and iron"? yoyo (talk) 18:28, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Fixing plagiarism

In the third paragraph, is a direct copy from a textbook. I have reworded it here in an attempt to avoid any issues. If someone else would like to take a look at it, as I am new to editing Wikipedia.

Original:

The side chains of the cell wall carry the bases responsible for the somatic antigen specificity of these organisms. The chemical composition of these side chains both with respect to components and arrangement of the different sugars determines the nature of the somatic or O antigen determinants, which are essential means of serologically classifying many Gram-negative bacteria.

My Edit:

The somatic antigen specificity of Legionella is determined by the side chains present on the cell walls. The nature of the O antigen polysaccharide chain is determined both by the arrangement, and composition of different sugar molecules. This composition is used in the classification of many Gram-Negative bacteria.

Here is the original source with the original copied part highlighted Microbes: Concepts and Applications

Liam.lah (talk) 04:34, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Here is the completed reference for the above textbook:

Bisen, Prakash; Debnath, Mousuni; Prasad, Godavarthic. (2012) “Microbes Concepts and Applications” (1st ed.). John Wiley & Sons.

Steph MacPherson (talk) 04:36, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: WikiProject Medicine Fall 2024 UCF COM - Block 6

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 October 2024 and 17 November 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): WiredOrpheus (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by WiredOrpheus (talk) 20:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Workplan over the course of the next month as a 4th-year medical student editing this webpage:

- Review and update existing material, which currently focuses largely on microbiology, control, and biomonitoring.

- Primary focus for adding material will be on Legionella infections, including but not limited to clinical presentation, diagnosis, epidemiology, prevention, prognosis, risk factors, and treatment). For this, I will plan to consolidate information, citing credible sources such as WHO, CDC (US), and Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine medical textbook.

- Assess readability of article, in particular avoiding medical jargon, and revise as needed using assistance of Hemingway Editor.

- Review recent systematic reviews and meta-analyses regarding Legionella infections and incorporate into article as they relate to treatment options, outbreaks, or clinical presentations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WiredOrpheus (talk • contribs) 20:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the article has a very good organization and is well structured. However, I do think that some of the smaller sections/subheadings which are like 1-2 sentences should be combined (or deleted) so that the sections have balance (for example the one part about molecular biology can be moved to the part about detection, the paragraph about vaccines should be moved to prevention, etc). I like the part about the history of the naming of the bacteria, but maybe that should be its own section (possibly titled “etymology”) or in the history section because topics discussed in the lead section should be mentioned somewhere else.  One additional suggestion is that the Pathogenesis section can be placed before the diagnosis section (replacing the titled “causes” section) and shortened because while it has good information, a lot of it is more relevant if moved to somewhere else. This I believe would help so that it can better fit the manual of style for diseases as defined by the wiki medicine page.

I really like how a big goal of the plan was to include clinical features of the infections. I think that the areas that were added to the article are pretty easy to read for the typical Wikipedia audience. However, when describing the symptoms, I think that it might be overwhelming for non-physicians to understand what rales and rhonchi are and so maybe work on making it easier for them to understand that these are abnormal lung sounds. I think that throughout the article, there are spots where there are pretty long sentences with complicated sentence structure, so it would be nice to reread the article and try to shorten some of those sentences. Also, I think that while some terms are easy to use, they may be very difficult to understand for people without a medicine background such as “alveolar epithelium” or “phagocytosis”. Maybe for these terms, it’s helpful to have a brief layman’s definition of it in parentheses after it.

I believe that overall, there are a great number of references in each paragraph and throughout the sentences. Most of the information seems credible but I noticed that a lot of the information is cited from Harrison’s Internal Medicine. I think it would be good if there could be a few references to websites such as the CDC or WHO which will probably be easier for the readers to access. However, it is still a great source and is perfectly okay to use. Overall, I think the article is well organized and through. Keep up the good work. Bucbeak31 (talk) 14:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)