Talk:2011 Egyptian revolution/Archive 5

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See also

In the "See Also" section, it lists one of the three articles as "Where in the World is Osama bin Laden?" This article relates very little to the Egyptian protests, and does not add any quality. I suggest that it should be removed. Gaandolf (talk) 22:23, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The edit summary mentions its relevance. the movie deals exactly with the issue of the Arab world (though it also goes to Afghanistan-Pakistan) and sentiment dealing with dissatisfactions. An eery parallel to why the protests were fomented.Lihaas (talk) 22:27, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Lihaas for all your great work on these series of articles, but I think you are hitting a sour note with this movie plug. Just one person's opinion. Glennconti (talk) 23:39, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

i thought a WP:SEE also "However, whether a link belongs in the "See also" section is ultimately a matter of editorial judgment and common sense...Thus, although some links may not naturally fit into the body of text they may be excluded from the "See also" section due to article size constraints." but if consensus disagrees...

ill try and annotate it to see if thats better. Lihaas (talk) 23:57, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

How about Les Miserables (particularly the play and the songs, i was thinking of that yesteday ver this)Lihaas (talk) 15:08, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

What? No. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 17:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

thats your idea of a consensus discussion? then you wonder why you go against the grain of consensus

some people do seem to be reading it.Lihaas (talk) 00:57, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Where in the World Is Osama Bin Laden? edits

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_Egyptian_protests&action=historysubmit&diff=412066196&oldid=412058009

Including but not limited to (there were also several edits by the other users contained in this link, but these edits were by him):

• changed link of death toll in the table to a broken, non-existing reference
• pulled-in another non-existing reference "en.rain.ru" - only because I removed it for the reason it was broken
• re-inserted link to Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden, despite the fact 3 people (including me) didn't agree with him on this (people who agreed with him: 0), just because he think this silly flick is just as important as Democracy in the Middle East. Oh, and he is stalking me over this around.

Awesome. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 23:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems to me in that edit that Lihaas removed duplication, vandalism, and clear POV. I don't see anything wrong with that. Silverseren^C 00:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I said, there were edits by the other people also in the link (several edits, by him and others). And I'm not saying he's doing only disruptive edits. I'm saying he's doing disruptive edits, including some only to revert me because he does not like me (the case of "en.rain.ru" is clear here). I think it's just unacceptable. And yes, he's stalking me too, just to cry about my edits in this article and how I dare to disagree with his opinion Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden is so essential for everyone. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 00:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

He even pulled back in "bloomberg3feb", the same broken reference that few sections ago I worked to remove from the article (look up, the problem was it was also in the external table). Because in his world... everything by me must be reverted! I thought he obesses only over Israel, but in this case... Lihaas: I'm not Israeli. Not Jewish. You can stop stalking me. Okay? --94.246.150.68 (talk) 00:17, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

How the can possibly stalk you? are you for real? and are you accusing him of Anti-Semitism? are you for real? based on what exactly? few disagreement between you two. Ok, you disagreed with me and I am African, are you a racist? Geez man, CALM DOWN -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 08:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I think Lihaas has been doing valuable work. As has 94.246.150.68. But the link to this movie that bills itself as a "hilarious comedy" is out of context with this article. Glennconti (talk) 00:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I said above im perfectly fair game in removing it per discussion consensus, but no one wants to discuss it. if im against the grain of consensus by all means take it off. I wouldnt then consider the IPs "What? no" to be consensus enough for removal. i think youd agree. The two of us gave our legitimate concerns on both sides, pending another view there. (bearing in mind WP:Consensus is not mere vote counting). I think as a reasonable editor youll agree that we need discussion to remove not just an editor visiting the page reverting and running away desptie calls to discuss. (also note the hidden tag by the link that the IP reverted WITHOUT any discussion)

the IP does have some strange notions of consensus, where he believes in his way or the high way (see the whole table saga and more)(Lihaas (talk) 00:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

Let me spell this for you: 3 people disagreed with you, 0 people agreed with you, you are not special. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 00:35, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

How many times have editors deleted the link to that movie? They may not have discussed it here but I think you have had to restore that link like 3 times? That should start to tell you something about its appropriateness. Were you serious about substituting a link to a musical in it's place? And IP Guy try harder to maintain civility.Glennconti (talk) 00:50, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

the editors gained consensus, or even tried. You did it, i responmded affirmatively to you. it would be vandalism for them to do so when told to dicuss first and they ignored it to have their ayLihaas (talk) 01:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I have seen other editors leave a comment embedded next to the controversial edit on the article page to alert other editors that there is a discussion going on on the talk page about it. Maybe that is a way to go?Glennconti (talk) 01:14, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

There was a discussion, no one (but him) opposed the proposition (not mine) to remove this stupid link of his that he reinserted repeatedly anyway. Lihaas believes that since he's special, no one can remove any stupid stuff that he posted unless he agrees to this, just because he has posted DO NOT REMOVE THIS GUYZ next to it in a hidden message. At the same time, he can and will revert all my edits, even through vandalizing Wikipedia by doing this (and I mean changing valid references into broken ones - and yes, he knew what he's doing, he thinks "a bot will repair it eventually", he wrote something just to this effect, look up). It's some kind of circus here. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 01:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not IP Guy, I'm Osama bin Laden. Ha-ha, how hilarious, and allegedly highly relevant to the subject article, too! Give me a break, Lihaas obviously 1) thinks he's special (special exclusive rights here just for his edits and opinions) 2) he's obsessed over me, here (reverting all my edits, including by making some very disruptive edits) and elsewhere (following me around and whining to random people about how I persecuted him by saying "What? No." at the end of the discussion where no-one opposed the proposition to remove his stupid link that he reinserted repeatedly anyway). This is ridiculous. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 01:08, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Glennconti, thats what i did. thats the reason i just explained. Feel free to either edit the hidden text, reply to the above or "quarantine" the controversial part till consensus.Lihaas (talk) 01:42, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Lihaas, I now see where you added the hidden comment. IP guy(94.246.150.68), do you not understand what consensus is? If Lihass feels strongly that this link is important, we need to take that under consideration. Lihaas, I really feel we have elevated this discuss much further than is merited. However, I am relatively new to WP and am interested in how to proceed in situations such as this for my own benefit, so please indulge me further? I am within protocol in "quarantining" this link until we get more feed back and [you] or [I & IP Guy] change our minds?? How would I proceed? If it is too involved please go to my talk page to tell me. I looked up wp:quarantine and it does not apply.Glennconti (talk) 02:25, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Lihaas, I think I figured it out. I am quarantining it here until we reach a consensus.Glennconti (talk) 03:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Maybe at least you, say, remove the broken refs that you inserted just because I removed them? Or, someone do it for you? That is, if anyone cares about it, because I for am just about to stop caring. Yours article, have it. Seriously, I'm enough of this circus. Good bye. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 02:23, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I said I'm about? No, I just simply don't care, anymore, I'm seriously fed up of this. Bye. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 02:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

IP guy, IP guy... What am I gonna do with you? Calm down son. Learn to respect others. How many Times do I have to say for you to get it? and AGAIN we work her with Consensus. you are gonna shave your opinions. Now, back to the subject at hand. I dont see any problems witht the first edit. now regarding the Osama bin Laden thingy. I have not seen nor do I know what its about. but if its like bill maher's religulous (even tho its a comedy), it would be related to religion if that was our topic. I think for now, we just should have it hidden until we have more of a Consensus -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 07:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, that doesnt have much to do with the arab world, the OBL one is specifically about the arab world (it even starts in Egypt)Lihaas (talk) 11:48, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The perfect news article on the journalist attacks

This article by CNN is completely comprehensive. It covers everything that has happened and also includes new info. It is, I think, the perfect source on this subject. I'm so glad I found this. Silverseren^C 00:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

in that case if you think it deserves prominence then would it better to EL it on the domestic reaction page? or would you want to cite it (article would get lost in the ref list)(Lihaas (talk) 00:25, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

Um, i'm not sure. :/ Silverseren^C 00:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

ive not parteken in that section so i think im better off just making recommendations. kets wait till others liek Egyptian Liberal come back then.(Lihaas (talk) 00:42, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

I am back. I think we should add it to the domestic reaction page and maybe add a summary here. I would prefer if it went under a new sub-section called "News" as part of the media blackout. also I think the media blackout should have sub-section talking about the "internet" alone and the "phone calls" alone. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 07:15, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

"News" is a bit vague, everything happening ow is news.v Lihaas (talk) 11:40, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Do you have anything in mind? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 12:43, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Media?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:35, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Possibly the section on attacks and harrasment that is a subsection of the media section. Or alternatively just an EL.Lihaas (talk) 15:00, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, who wants to add it? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 19:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

infobox

 Fixed

what happened to it? i cant see te details. only deaths and arrests.Lihaas (talk) 15:23, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for not explaining my edit I was cut short before I could respond (Left and had to do something) I noticed that when you edited the page the infobox changed and thought it was related and it was not, I can not explain the infobox problem, the template layout could have been changed by someone. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:30, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

ah okay. o see the map i s back. well lets wait and see if someone else can figure it outLihaas (talk) 16:35, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

i think there is a ref name tag missing the closing bracket at "ref name="Sterlingmarching on 25 January". (in the "caption" field of the infobox). someone else will have to fix, IPs remain locked out.--96.232.126.111 (talk) 17:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.126.111 (talk) 16:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I found the problem it was the clarify message in the inbox for the caption that did it. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Archive!

This talk page is 234,441+ bytes long, and some of it needs to be archived. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

in last hour or so, i tried collapsing (which is not quite the same) one complete topic's section, to start to put some organization to the talk page; i was reverted. told the archive bot couldn't cope with collapsed sections. find that strange, but i'm not that familiar with the archive bots.

at one point, some days back, user:ocaasi (sp?) had the archive bot set to do its thing once a day for staler items. don't know what current setting is.--96.232.126.111 (talk) 17:12, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

its not that the bot cant handle it,. the bot would move it as is. ie=- collapsed sate.

but ill speed up the bot.Lihaas (talk) 18:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I did some manualy.Wipsenade (talk) 20:46, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

At over 223,000 bytes long I do not see why editors are undoing archive edits, towards the top I see edits that are over a week old last post or are nearing it. Archiving speeds up load time for some users, prevents edit conflicts, and makes things look more in order. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Protests section rearranged

I rearranged the protests section that way Anyone has comments if it should or should not be like this?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:17, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

not bad, not bad at all.which movie is that from? though perhaps we can move this now above the timeline as a summation of what is to come.

one thing though, we could break up to a few paras (not necessarily per city as before, perhaps by cairo/alexandria, mid-si cities and towns adn villages third).

bear in mind though: the main reason for this was to give credence to protests outside cairo and, to a lesser degree, alexandriaLihaas (talk) 18:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Floydman, 5 February 2011

I believe the article should be called January 2552011 Egyptian Revolution instead of Protest.

Floydman (talk) 17:48, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

THIs doesnt really need a n edit request as something like that needs solid discussion. the first topic above discusses this and there is no support for a move to revolution just yet, although uprising is looking more likely.Lihaas (talk) 18:19, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

reference errors on table

Hi am wondering if anyone could help with the question posed in Talk:Deaths in the 2011 Egyptian protests there are some references cited but they don't seem to link to sources Notjamesbond (talk) 21:17, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Try requesting User:Anomie to send his bot to rescue the refs.Lihaas (talk) 21:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Pictures of Friends penetration wounds

I got my friend to send me some pics if anyone is interested to look at or post in the wiki page. I think the scans are nice. Check them out here.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 22:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, please note that a concern has been raised at Commons that licensing is insufficient. You need to act upon it, or the file could be deleted on February 12th. Cheers, Alfons Åberg (talk) 23:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I hoped that wouldn't happen since I have the originals already... But it did and now I asked him to send me the confirmation mail and I will forward it.... I really thought commons can just trust I have the originals...--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:19, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

BREAKING NEWS

Top NDP leaders resign

Top NDP leaders including Gamal Mubarak and Safwat El Sheriff. Ahram Online--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 16:15, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Gas pipeline exploded

Some saboteurs blew a pipeline up in north Sinai that leads to Jordan Reuters and more info again here Reuters.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

we would need those cites, currently unsourced.(Lihaas (talk) 15:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

 DoneLihaas (talk) 15:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The Egyptian government has said that this was not due to sabotage or terrorism.  Cs32en Talk to me  06:31, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

certainly add theri view with a source, although there are other opinion here too ((incl. jordan) and egypt tv that said otherwise (see the gas pipeline page))Lihaas (talk) 12:05, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Vodafone 'forced' to send pro-Mubarak SMS

Vodafone 'forced' to send pro-Mubarak SMS. Can you say Political corruption? Just got one on my phone. I will post a picture of the message in a while -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 15:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done and added to the domestic repose page(Lihaas (talk) 15:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

Mubarak to resign

Mubarak to ABC: I want to resign but I'm afraid of chaos -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 19:45, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The Egyptian Government Issues A Travel ban and Bank accounts freeze for many people

The Egyptian Government Issues A Travel ban and Bank accounts freeze for many people. The list include Ahmed Ezz, Habib Ibrahim El Adly, Ahmed Alaa E-Din Amin El-Maghrabi and Ahmed Abdul Aziz -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 14:26, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Ahmed Ezz quits Mubarak party

Egypt magnate-cum-politician quits Mubarak party -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 15:40, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Ahmed Shafik named as the new Prime Minister of Egypt

Ahmed Shafik the Minister for Civil Aviation is named as the new Prime Minister -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 16:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

prison escape

need mention of this (like tunisia), reports saying over 3,000 have been recaptured. (no doubt the looters)(Lihaas (talk) 13:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)).

Reports state that many Islamic militants have escaped, and the Egyptian Air Force is heavily present over major cities like Cairo. Try checking the current events portal periodically for updates. ~AH1^(TCU) 17:55, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

[1][2][3](Lihaas (talk) 21:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)).

Tora prison

Good afternoon. Possible shooting against unarmed prisoners. http://www.hrw.org/egypt-live-updates --Youssef (talk) 16:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Oil Brent hit 100 dollars

Perhaps it deserves a coverage. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12328745 --Youssef (talk) 17:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

if related add it to the financial markets bit.Lihaas (talk) 18:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Al Jazeera

Al Jazeera journalists released, though not sure about equipment adn data.(Lihaas (talk) 15:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).

Good afternoon. According to theit new site (in English), camera equipment has been seized. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011131123648291703.html --Youssef (talk) 16:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

Prison escapees at least 1 from Army of Islam and one fron Hamas, n=both in Gaza.

CNN says "heavily armed" marines sent to us embassy as the CNN analyst cites the Tehran embassy precedent. + new Ministers sworn in + netenyaho wary of "chaotic change" + million man march in cairo and alexandria (name in obious reference to MLK)

al jazeera quoptes tehe armed forces spokesman as saying "we will not raise arms against a great people" (yadda, ydda, ie- egyptian people who are good and cannot be fired upon). just asked if prez is losing support of army, or theyre playing careful. + alexandria has seen the worse clashes during the protests + analyst says the only functional part of the country is the army + Dennis Kucinich as expect, Ron Paul-ish call for mubarak not to supress, etc. + al jazeera pieece right now on american support for egypt (mostly mil) (damn damning i might say!) + police abck on street + helicopters all night over tahrir square + pro-mubarak protests, motly from community protections + new VP says govt willing to talk any and all groyups as of a speech tonight + police planning to block protests tomorrow morning + people believe army is there to protect them from police + charles boutany response + israel "allows" troops to move into sinai near sharm el shaikh + some calls for "traitor" mubarak to move to israel + people sleeping out in the street all night to prepare for tomorrow, and internet shut down, mobile services to be shut + local criticisms of state media broadcasts + MB now blames army for allowing looters/rioters/mobs into cairo + supporters of muabrak say that opposers have weapons and are ready for violence + fuel lines + banks opening for pensioners to withdraw money + elbaradei: "what is happening now is a crime against egypt" (feb 2 violence) + reports of capital flight from egypt + state tv not showing night porotests + S... Amin, sr journalist, resigned from Nile TV sayign she doesnt want to be part of state propaganda + protesters say Mubarak speech was worthless and did address major issues [(Parliament and Shura should be dissolved due to the rigged election, hence the constitution can not be rewritten by them) (He didnt say anything about Gamal not running) (Amending article 88 of the Constitution of Egyp) (Releasing political prisoners) + PM speaks to address 2nd Feb attack + the wafd party flip-flops + protesters still refusing to take to the government until Mubarak steps down due the Feb. 2nd attack + 3 Aljazeera reporters arrested by the Egyptian government + prosecutor general announces on state tv that certain former ministers are barred from leaving the country (incl. the steel guy in the background section) (4 in total) + Interior Min. to investigate why police ordered off the street(feb 3 + Omar Soliman says the Mubarak and his son are not going to run in the next election but the protesters are not buying it(feb 3 + sniper shots reported in Tahrir(feb 3 + PM had a press conference (feb 3) + VP spoke *feb 3) + The government arrested nine of the young activists, including Amr Salah ,Nasser Abdel Hamid, Shadi Ghazaly + TV Live feed as stop from tahrir square + MB will nto partake in talks with the government + Alexandria protests big on the 3, but ended before 9 (though people were camping out akin to "our friends in cairo/tahrir" also a big demonstations expected tomorrow + al jazeera amongst mos repressed new outlet (if not THE) + egyptian islamic jihad made a statement (press tv) + feb 4: alexandria protests massive, some pics even suggest more crowd than cairo + feb: alexandria iman (Ibrahim Mosque) saying mubrak's times up and intimidation wont work + feb 4: military leaders (tantawi first min to visit square) met protesters at tahrir earlier saying "they will not be attacked today" and security checkpoitns aroudn cairo to check protests going to Tahrir + feb 4: pro-mubarak gather in cairo (number 3,000) + el baradei working on new constitution with opposition + no pro-mubarak or police/military in alexandria + Amr Moussa join protesters in tahrir square + A joint statement from all the opposition group to come out soon + cultural icons present gain in Tahrir + berlusconi back to being the idiot again: "muabrak is wise" and he should stay to transition + Khomeini says this is a sign the islamic rebvolution is winning (sure press tv may have a source on it) + clashes reported to have begun + 5m in cairo alexandri? (egypt 2nd scity).. + state-tv in la-la land believing nd SHOWING that there are no distrubances and everything is quiet, reportin theyre correcting "false images of the foreign media" + protests in suez -- state tv claimed peaceful despite both sides present --> they also claim protesters are shaking hands and openly and freely exchaning views last few days of the network... + ban-ki moon again + mullen sayign us armed forced on the ready + protests expanded to Abdul [something] square nearby tahrir + us said to be workign with muabrak to find some way to resign + Journalist Ahmed Mohamed Mahmoud dies on 4 feb due to gun shot on the 28th + alexandria much more peaceful, very minor scuffles early in the day (feb 4) + noon namaxz in open air in cairo, and night in alexandria...following whch protests continued (though many left at night due to cold) + ban ki moon call for immediate elections + night curfew eased by 3 hours + VP calls for meet with "wise men" opposition to discuss issues + baradei call to "leave in dignity" (longisicne gone that) + MB earlier said it would hold a referendum on relations with israel + mubarak is a "dead man walking" + john kerry/john mccain call for mubarak to leave + al hjazeera arabic bureau chief arrested along with another jornalist + Papandreu due in Cairo for talks on bhealf of the EU + 6 April Youth Movement release a statement + Health min OFFICIAL death toll at 11silly as the ministry may be, we should mention their version + al jazeera showing day-by-day (from jan 25) hypocritical us reaction + sinai pieline explosdes + daivd cameron comments on some typical western ruhbbish about extremist idology still drawing people even if this was solved + bill o'reilly critical of al jazeera coverage + clinton: perfect storm for region + Anonymous attack + fox news journsliats (2) attacked + muarak meeting with uae foreign min + obama says "progress is being made" + UK foriegn min (during visit to Tunisia)/PM comments (feb 8) + feb 9: 3 dead, hundresd wounded in last 2 days

Need to find

+ need to find : Boutros boutros ghali and al qaeda (Arabian Peninsula and/or islamic maghreb)

Tuesay huge march

URGENT: Tomorrow 9am march to the Heliopolis Palace.Lihaas (talk) 18:23, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

TOMORROW (FEBRUARY 1) BIGGEST MARCH PLANNED TO DATE Archiver of Records (talk) 02:46, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done (id imagine)(Lihaas (talk) 00:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

The Council of the state and the nation's faithful

Wafd party made a statement of opposition (id imagine against the new govt and not baradei)

Its kinda talking a dig at both. They are forming a "council of wise men". I think we will have more info on that tomorrw. I hope... -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 01:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Ahmed Zewail

AHMED ZEWAILsaid on Monday he would return on Tuesday to continue work in a committee for constitutional reform including Ayman Nour and prominent lawyers. Al-Shorouk newspaper published a “letter to the Egyptian people” in which he proposed a "council of wise men" to write a new constitution. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 01:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Army sides with protesters

A new article was just released by Reuters here. It discusses how the army has sided with the protesters, saying that they believe the protests are legitimate. It also discusses how the US has now demanded point blank that Mubarak must end the Emergency Law and hold free elections. Silverseren^C 22:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

In response to the army declaring them legitimate, the protesters are planning a "million-strong" protest tomorrow, the Guardian reports. Silverseren^C 23:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

yes, thank you.  Done(Lihaas (talk) 23:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).

Looting, verification

In the January 29th section we cover reports that some looting is linked to the Egyptian Regime or the police. There are currently three claims, one of which is not cited and seems difficult to confirm:

News from inside Alexandria as reported by an eye witness on Al-Arabiya news channel via phone, that a group of people captured a number of armed civilians trying to break into a local bank and after some investigation they learned that those armed civilians were actually part of the "Egyptian Undercover Police" with orders to create chaos.

I'll post it here so others can try and track it down. If we can't, given the increasing reporting on this issue, I think we can remove it and/or replace it. Ocaasi (talk) 08:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Here - "We had one confirmed report of two looters who were caught who had identification of the dreaded plainclothes undercover police unit on them so we are not quite sure how much of this is spontaneous and how much of this is an organised attempt by the government to create instability now so people have the choice of either going back to the Mubarak police state or facing this instability."

Here - "His statement comes as Al Jazeera and other news networks reported extensively on the small looting at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo in the past two days as police guarding the museum left their posts. Others allege that the police themselves are responsible for the looting."

Here - "The protesters distanced themselves from the atrocities, organized human chains to protect the museum, and blamed the looting and jailbreaks on instigation by the secret police. It is possible that parts of Mubarak's security apparatus, with or without his consent, took part in instigating the chaos. This would echo what has happened in similar circumstances in countless other places, and, if executed stealthily, could damage the support base of the protesters. American think-tank Stratfor reports, 'Egyptian plainclothes police allegedly were behind a number of the jailbreaks, robberies of major banks and the spread of attacks and break-ins in high-class neighborhoods.'"

How's that? Silverseren^C 08:45, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks, sorry this got lost amongst the madness. Ocaasi (talk) 16:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Al Jazeera Journalists Arrested, Then Released; Equipment Taken

See here. Silverseren^C 16:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Also here. Silverseren^C 16:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I put it in the arrests section. Feel free to move it if you like.--Physics is all gnomes (talk) 17:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

the question is was tghe equipment/data released too>?Lihaas (talk) 18:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Those sources I gave say that the equipment was confiscated and not returned. Silverseren^C 19:10, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

ah! we need that to say thenLihaas (talk) 19:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"around 8 million" yesterday

Sources for this claim are this are all Arabic. Need English sources, possibly alternative estimates. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 14:22, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Clashes in Tahrir Square

Discuss here how to cover the issue, and look at the Internet articles how they do this (instead of just watching TV). --94.246.150.68 (talk) 15:01, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

There's already a sentence or so in the article at the end of February 2nd, but it should probably be expanded. See this article released by Al Jazeera. Over 100 people are injured from this, with this report saying more than 500. The accusations of Mubarak paying off and sending in these "thugs" should probably be in the article. Silverseren^C 16:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Anderson Cooper, CNN reporter, attacked

Anderson Cooper and his TV crew are punched and beaten in Tahrir Square, according to Entertainment Weekly. Silverseren^C 16:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Add it - The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:09, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Anderson Cooper describes more about what happened here. It seems that the pro-Mubarak group purposefully went after him. Silverseren^C 20:17, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 DoneLihaas (talk) 23:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but how is this encyclopedic? I doubt that sources will refer to this as the Time in Egypt that Anderson Cooper was roughed up. I vote to sacrifice the mention at the alter of article size. Midlakewinter (talk) 23:33, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

that journalists were attacked, which is a form of censorship (where we have an entire section), and where CPJ's comments are also cited here indicating notability.Lihaas (talk) 23:39, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

This may seem a silly point to argue, but the source refers to "pro-Mubarak" supporters roughing him up, not state actors. I don't doubt your good faith, but thought I'd make mention. Midlakewinter (talk) 23:49, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The sources also point out that a good number of the pro-Mubarak supporters are police in plain clothes. There are other sources elsewhere on this talk page (further down) that discuss that fact that it is alleged that police are being paid 5 month wages in advance for joining the pro-Mubarak side and this whole fighting/killing thing. Silverseren^C 00:02, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

"pro Mubarak" supporters

Al jazeera is reporting that the "pro Mubarak" people clashing with the anti mubarak demonstrators right now are police/security forces in plain clothes. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:49, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

BBC reporter says pro-Mubarak protestors are being paid £5-10 to counter-demonstrate by the ruling party. One was also offered half a chicken! [4] Chesdovi (talk) 13:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

They came on camels and horses. Police IDs have been found on them. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:03, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Police are being offered 5 months wages to stoke the violence! Chesdovi (talk) 14:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

They are throwing stone at each other. Disgraceful. [5]. Chesdovi (talk) 14:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

pro-Mubarak protesters attacked the anti-Mubarak protesters with pocket knives and swords. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 14:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Scary scenes of violence on al jazeera :( My thoughts are with those in Egypt. --Physics is all gnomes (talk) 14:33, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Pro-Mubarak protesters are killing the pro-Democracy protesters. OMG. 300 dead so far. Its sicking -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 16:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• CNN just released an article that discusses the identity of the pro-Mubarak supporters. [6] Silverseren^C 18:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Great can you add it? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 19:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The Egyptian museum is on fire

Pro-Mubarak have hit the Egyptian museum with a molotov cocktail while trying to hit the pro-Democracy protesters. The army is trying to put the fire out -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 16:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Egyptian government rejects international requests for a transition

According to this article, this morning, the Egyptian government announced that it will not be working toward an immediate political transition, regardless of what other countries want. Silverseren^C 17:03, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Add it - The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:08, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

State television orders protesters to disband

New Los Angeles Times article here. Silverseren^C 20:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Add it to the article -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:07, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

No editing from me, that's up to you guys. I'm just the reference guy. :P Silverseren^C 20:11, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Wael Ghonim

A group of the youth organizers in the liberation Square name Wael Ghonim to speak on their behalf. Wael Ghonim has been missing since Friday of Anger. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

A Wired article about him here. He's apparently also the executive head of marketing for the Middle East branch of Google? Silverseren^C 20:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes that's him -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 05:00, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

That should probably go in somewhere. We don't know if he's dead, so it shouldn't be in Deaths, but...somewhere. He's a pretty important person. Silverseren^C 06:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Go ahead and add it : ) I am working the event of the 2nd right now -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 06:18, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Where do you think he should go though? Silverseren^C 06:27, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I actually know Wael personally. I hope he is alive, I really do. Its very sad. There is only two options: Dead or arrested. I hope its the later so at least they will release him. sry, its bit hard to talk about this or write about it -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 06:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Military stepping in

According to this, though it doesn't say much about it. Can anyone else find any other, more descriptive articles on this? Silverseren^C 10:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I've just read it my self. So, Mr.Mounir Abdel-Nour, secretary-general of the secular liberal Wafd Party, said he was invited for the talks, and accepted on condition that protesters would not be attacked then. --Wipsenade (talk) 10:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

BREAKING NEWS

Top NDP leaders resign

Top NDP leaders including Gamal Mubarak and Safwat El Sheriff. Ahram Online--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 16:15, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Gas pipeline exploded

Some saboteurs blew a pipeline up in north Sinai that leads to Jordan Reuters and more info again here Reuters.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

we would need those cites, currently unsourced.(Lihaas (talk) 15:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

 DoneLihaas (talk) 15:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The Egyptian government has said that this was not due to sabotage or terrorism.  Cs32en Talk to me  06:31, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

certainly add theri view with a source, although there are other opinion here too ((incl. jordan) and egypt tv that said otherwise (see the gas pipeline page))Lihaas (talk) 12:05, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Vodafone 'forced' to send pro-Mubarak SMS

Vodafone 'forced' to send pro-Mubarak SMS. Can you say Political corruption? Just got one on my phone. I will post a picture of the message in a while -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 15:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done and added to the domestic repose page(Lihaas (talk) 15:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

Mubarak to resign

Mubarak to ABC: I want to resign but I'm afraid of chaos -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 19:45, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The Egyptian Government Issues A Travel ban and Bank accounts freeze for many people

The Egyptian Government Issues A Travel ban and Bank accounts freeze for many people. The list include Ahmed Ezz, Habib Ibrahim El Adly, Ahmed Alaa E-Din Amin El-Maghrabi and Ahmed Abdul Aziz -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 14:26, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Ahmed Ezz quits Mubarak party

Egypt magnate-cum-politician quits Mubarak party -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 15:40, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Ahmed Shafik named as the new Prime Minister of Egypt

Ahmed Shafik the Minister for Civil Aviation is named as the new Prime Minister -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 16:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

prison escape

need mention of this (like tunisia), reports saying over 3,000 have been recaptured. (no doubt the looters)(Lihaas (talk) 13:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)).

Reports state that many Islamic militants have escaped, and the Egyptian Air Force is heavily present over major cities like Cairo. Try checking the current events portal periodically for updates. ~AH1^(TCU) 17:55, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

[7][8][9](Lihaas (talk) 21:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)).

Tora prison

Good afternoon. Possible shooting against unarmed prisoners. http://www.hrw.org/egypt-live-updates --Youssef (talk) 16:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Oil Brent hit 100 dollars

Perhaps it deserves a coverage. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12328745 --Youssef (talk) 17:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

if related add it to the financial markets bit.Lihaas (talk) 18:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Al Jazeera

Al Jazeera journalists released, though not sure about equipment adn data.(Lihaas (talk) 15:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).

Good afternoon. According to theit new site (in English), camera equipment has been seized. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011131123648291703.html --Youssef (talk) 16:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

Prison escapees at least 1 from Army of Islam and one fron Hamas, n=both in Gaza.

CNN says "heavily armed" marines sent to us embassy as the CNN analyst cites the Tehran embassy precedent. + new Ministers sworn in + netenyaho wary of "chaotic change" + million man march in cairo and alexandria (name in obious reference to MLK)

al jazeera quoptes tehe armed forces spokesman as saying "we will not raise arms against a great people" (yadda, ydda, ie- egyptian people who are good and cannot be fired upon). just asked if prez is losing support of army, or theyre playing careful. + alexandria has seen the worse clashes during the protests + analyst says the only functional part of the country is the army + Dennis Kucinich as expect, Ron Paul-ish call for mubarak not to supress, etc. + al jazeera pieece right now on american support for egypt (mostly mil) (damn damning i might say!) + police abck on street + helicopters all night over tahrir square + pro-mubarak protests, motly from community protections + new VP says govt willing to talk any and all groyups as of a speech tonight + police planning to block protests tomorrow morning + people believe army is there to protect them from police + charles boutany response + israel "allows" troops to move into sinai near sharm el shaikh + some calls for "traitor" mubarak to move to israel + people sleeping out in the street all night to prepare for tomorrow, and internet shut down, mobile services to be shut + local criticisms of state media broadcasts + MB now blames army for allowing looters/rioters/mobs into cairo + supporters of muabrak say that opposers have weapons and are ready for violence + fuel lines + banks opening for pensioners to withdraw money + elbaradei: "what is happening now is a crime against egypt" (feb 2 violence) + reports of capital flight from egypt + state tv not showing night porotests + S... Amin, sr journalist, resigned from Nile TV sayign she doesnt want to be part of state propaganda + protesters say Mubarak speech was worthless and did address major issues [(Parliament and Shura should be dissolved due to the rigged election, hence the constitution can not be rewritten by them) (He didnt say anything about Gamal not running) (Amending article 88 of the Constitution of Egyp) (Releasing political prisoners) + PM speaks to address 2nd Feb attack + the wafd party flip-flops + protesters still refusing to take to the government until Mubarak steps down due the Feb. 2nd attack + 3 Aljazeera reporters arrested by the Egyptian government + prosecutor general announces on state tv that certain former ministers are barred from leaving the country (incl. the steel guy in the background section) (4 in total) + Interior Min. to investigate why police ordered off the street(feb 3 + Omar Soliman says the Mubarak and his son are not going to run in the next election but the protesters are not buying it(feb 3 + sniper shots reported in Tahrir(feb 3 + PM had a press conference (feb 3) + VP spoke *feb 3) + The government arrested nine of the young activists, including Amr Salah ,Nasser Abdel Hamid, Shadi Ghazaly + TV Live feed as stop from tahrir square + MB will nto partake in talks with the government + Alexandria protests big on the 3, but ended before 9 (though people were camping out akin to "our friends in cairo/tahrir" also a big demonstations expected tomorrow + al jazeera amongst mos repressed new outlet (if not THE) + egyptian islamic jihad made a statement (press tv) + feb 4: alexandria protests massive, some pics even suggest more crowd than cairo + feb: alexandria iman (Ibrahim Mosque) saying mubrak's times up and intimidation wont work + feb 4: military leaders (tantawi first min to visit square) met protesters at tahrir earlier saying "they will not be attacked today" and security checkpoitns aroudn cairo to check protests going to Tahrir + feb 4: pro-mubarak gather in cairo (number 3,000) + el baradei working on new constitution with opposition + no pro-mubarak or police/military in alexandria + Amr Moussa join protesters in tahrir square + A joint statement from all the opposition group to come out soon + cultural icons present gain in Tahrir + berlusconi back to being the idiot again: "muabrak is wise" and he should stay to transition + Khomeini says this is a sign the islamic rebvolution is winning (sure press tv may have a source on it) + clashes reported to have begun + 5m in cairo alexandri? (egypt 2nd scity).. + state-tv in la-la land believing nd SHOWING that there are no distrubances and everything is quiet, reportin theyre correcting "false images of the foreign media" + protests in suez -- state tv claimed peaceful despite both sides present --> they also claim protesters are shaking hands and openly and freely exchaning views last few days of the network... + ban-ki moon again + mullen sayign us armed forced on the ready + protests expanded to Abdul [something] square nearby tahrir + us said to be workign with muabrak to find some way to resign + Journalist Ahmed Mohamed Mahmoud dies on 4 feb due to gun shot on the 28th + alexandria much more peaceful, very minor scuffles early in the day (feb 4) + noon namaxz in open air in cairo, and night in alexandria...following whch protests continued (though many left at night due to cold) + ban ki moon call for immediate elections + night curfew eased by 3 hours + VP calls for meet with "wise men" opposition to discuss issues + baradei call to "leave in dignity" (longisicne gone that) + MB earlier said it would hold a referendum on relations with israel + mubarak is a "dead man walking" + john kerry/john mccain call for mubarak to leave + al hjazeera arabic bureau chief arrested along with another jornalist + Papandreu due in Cairo for talks on bhealf of the EU + 6 April Youth Movement release a statement + Health min OFFICIAL death toll at 11silly as the ministry may be, we should mention their version + al jazeera showing day-by-day (from jan 25) hypocritical us reaction + sinai pipeline explodes + daivd cameron comments on some typical western ruhbbish about extremist idology still drawing people even if this was solved + bill o'reilly critical of al jazeera coverage + clinton: perfect storm for region + Anonymous attack + fox news journalists (2) attacked + mubarak meeting with uae foreign min + obama says "progress is being made" + UK foriegn min (during visit to Tunisia)/PM comments (feb 8) + feb 9: 3 dead, hundresd wounded in last 2 days

Need to find

+ need to find : Boutros boutros ghali and al qaeda (Arabian Peninsula and/or islamic maghreb)

Tuesay huge march

URGENT: Tomorrow 9am march to the Heliopolis Palace.Lihaas (talk) 18:23, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

TOMORROW (FEBRUARY 1) BIGGEST MARCH PLANNED TO DATE Archiver of Records (talk) 02:46, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done (id imagine)(Lihaas (talk) 00:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)).

The Council of the state and the nation's faithful

Wafd party made a statement of opposition (id imagine against the new govt and not baradei)

Its kinda talking a dig at both. They are forming a "council of wise men". I think we will have more info on that tomorrw. I hope... -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 01:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Ahmed Zewail

AHMED ZEWAILsaid on Monday he would return on Tuesday to continue work in a committee for constitutional reform including Ayman Nour and prominent lawyers. Al-Shorouk newspaper published a “letter to the Egyptian people” in which he proposed a "council of wise men" to write a new constitution. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 01:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Army sides with protesters

A new article was just released by Reuters here. It discusses how the army has sided with the protesters, saying that they believe the protests are legitimate. It also discusses how the US has now demanded point blank that Mubarak must end the Emergency Law and hold free elections. Silverseren^C 22:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

In response to the army declaring them legitimate, the protesters are planning a "million-strong" protest tomorrow, the Guardian reports. Silverseren^C 23:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

yes, thank you.  Done(Lihaas (talk) 23:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).

Looting, verification

In the January 29th section we cover reports that some looting is linked to the Egyptian Regime or the police. There are currently three claims, one of which is not cited and seems difficult to confirm:

News from inside Alexandria as reported by an eye witness on Al-Arabiya news channel via phone, that a group of people captured a number of armed civilians trying to break into a local bank and after some investigation they learned that those armed civilians were actually part of the "Egyptian Undercover Police" with orders to create chaos.

I'll post it here so others can try and track it down. If we can't, given the increasing reporting on this issue, I think we can remove it and/or replace it. Ocaasi (talk) 08:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Here - "We had one confirmed report of two looters who were caught who had identification of the dreaded plainclothes undercover police unit on them so we are not quite sure how much of this is spontaneous and how much of this is an organised attempt by the government to create instability now so people have the choice of either going back to the Mubarak police state or facing this instability."

Here - "His statement comes as Al Jazeera and other news networks reported extensively on the small looting at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo in the past two days as police guarding the museum left their posts. Others allege that the police themselves are responsible for the looting."

Here - "The protesters distanced themselves from the atrocities, organized human chains to protect the museum, and blamed the looting and jailbreaks on instigation by the secret police. It is possible that parts of Mubarak's security apparatus, with or without his consent, took part in instigating the chaos. This would echo what has happened in similar circumstances in countless other places, and, if executed stealthily, could damage the support base of the protesters. American think-tank Stratfor reports, 'Egyptian plainclothes police allegedly were behind a number of the jailbreaks, robberies of major banks and the spread of attacks and break-ins in high-class neighborhoods.'"

How's that? Silverseren^C 08:45, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks, sorry this got lost amongst the madness. Ocaasi (talk) 16:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Al Jazeera Journalists Arrested, Then Released; Equipment Taken

See here. Silverseren^C 16:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Also here. Silverseren^C 16:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I put it in the arrests section. Feel free to move it if you like.--Physics is all gnomes (talk) 17:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

the question is was tghe equipment/data released too>?Lihaas (talk) 18:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Those sources I gave say that the equipment was confiscated and not returned. Silverseren^C 19:10, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

ah! we need that to say thenLihaas (talk) 19:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"around 8 million" yesterday

Sources for this claim are this are all Arabic. Need English sources, possibly alternative estimates. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 14:22, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Clashes in Tahrir Square

Discuss here how to cover the issue, and look at the Internet articles how they do this (instead of just watching TV). --94.246.150.68 (talk) 15:01, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

There's already a sentence or so in the article at the end of February 2nd, but it should probably be expanded. See this article released by Al Jazeera. Over 100 people are injured from this, with this report saying more than 500. The accusations of Mubarak paying off and sending in these "thugs" should probably be in the article. Silverseren^C 16:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Anderson Cooper, CNN reporter, attacked

Anderson Cooper and his TV crew are punched and beaten in Tahrir Square, according to Entertainment Weekly. Silverseren^C 16:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Add it - The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:09, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Anderson Cooper describes more about what happened here. It seems that the pro-Mubarak group purposefully went after him. Silverseren^C 20:17, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 DoneLihaas (talk) 23:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but how is this encyclopedic? I doubt that sources will refer to this as the Time in Egypt that Anderson Cooper was roughed up. I vote to sacrifice the mention at the alter of article size. Midlakewinter (talk) 23:33, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

that journalists were attacked, which is a form of censorship (where we have an entire section), and where CPJ's comments are also cited here indicating notability.Lihaas (talk) 23:39, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

This may seem a silly point to argue, but the source refers to "pro-Mubarak" supporters roughing him up, not state actors. I don't doubt your good faith, but thought I'd make mention. Midlakewinter (talk) 23:49, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The sources also point out that a good number of the pro-Mubarak supporters are police in plain clothes. There are other sources elsewhere on this talk page (further down) that discuss that fact that it is alleged that police are being paid 5 month wages in advance for joining the pro-Mubarak side and this whole fighting/killing thing. Silverseren^C 00:02, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

"pro Mubarak" supporters

Al jazeera is reporting that the "pro Mubarak" people clashing with the anti mubarak demonstrators right now are police/security forces in plain clothes. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:49, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

BBC reporter says pro-Mubarak protestors are being paid £5-10 to counter-demonstrate by the ruling party. One was also offered half a chicken! [10] Chesdovi (talk) 13:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

They came on camels and horses. Police IDs have been found on them. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:03, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Police are being offered 5 months wages to stoke the violence! Chesdovi (talk) 14:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

They are throwing stone at each other. Disgraceful. [11]. Chesdovi (talk) 14:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

pro-Mubarak protesters attacked the anti-Mubarak protesters with pocket knives and swords. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 14:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Scary scenes of violence on al jazeera :( My thoughts are with those in Egypt. --Physics is all gnomes (talk) 14:33, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Pro-Mubarak protesters are killing the pro-Democracy protesters. OMG. 300 dead so far. Its sicking -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 16:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• CNN just released an article that discusses the identity of the pro-Mubarak supporters. [12] Silverseren^C 18:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Great can you add it? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 19:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The Egyptian museum is on fire

Pro-Mubarak have hit the Egyptian museum with a molotov cocktail while trying to hit the pro-Democracy protesters. The army is trying to put the fire out -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 16:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Egyptian government rejects international requests for a transition

According to this article, this morning, the Egyptian government announced that it will not be working toward an immediate political transition, regardless of what other countries want. Silverseren^C 17:03, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Add it - The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:08, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

State television orders protesters to disband

New Los Angeles Times article here. Silverseren^C 20:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Add it to the article -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:07, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

No editing from me, that's up to you guys. I'm just the reference guy. :P Silverseren^C 20:11, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Wael Ghonim

A group of the youth organizers in the liberation Square name Wael Ghonim to speak on their behalf. Wael Ghonim has been missing since Friday of Anger. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

A Wired article about him here. He's apparently also the executive head of marketing for the Middle East branch of Google? Silverseren^C 20:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes that's him -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 05:00, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

That should probably go in somewhere. We don't know if he's dead, so it shouldn't be in Deaths, but...somewhere. He's a pretty important person. Silverseren^C 06:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Go ahead and add it : ) I am working the event of the 2nd right now -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 06:18, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Where do you think he should go though? Silverseren^C 06:27, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I actually know Wael personally. I hope he is alive, I really do. Its very sad. There is only two options: Dead or arrested. I hope its the later so at least they will release him. sry, its bit hard to talk about this or write about it -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 06:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Military stepping in

According to this, though it doesn't say much about it. Can anyone else find any other, more descriptive articles on this? Silverseren^C 10:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I've just read it my self. So, Mr.Mounir Abdel-Nour, secretary-general of the secular liberal Wafd Party, said he was invited for the talks, and accepted on condition that protesters would not be attacked then. --Wipsenade (talk) 10:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Reliable sources on Egyptian affairs?

It has been brought to my attention that some editors consider Al Jazeera to be bias and Russia Today to be a state run propaganda machine. I personally regard Press TV as a state run propaganda machine and think both Al-Mihwar TV and Nile TV would be compromised since as Egyptians they are thus sucked in to an Egyptian crisis due to being part of Egypt. CCTV 9, the Jerusalem Post and Radio Kol Israel have been accused of bias and POV on other Wikipedia pages so, I add them to the list below. Feel free as to talk about these channels, bias, POV and state run propaganda machine status below. I hope we can work out whether reliable and trust worthy sources for news coverage of Egyptian affairs soon. Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

At any rate, why are all these nonwestern media put up here? Bit bias of itself. CNN International and BBC's broacdcasts here are insidious. the former flagrently trying to keep out the truth (ite- screens at tahrir broadcasting!)Lihaas (talk) 14:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The Centre for Research on Globalization The question is:- Is The Centre for Research on Globalization state run propaganda machine? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 14:43, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Al Jazeera

The question is:- Is Al Jazeera bias and POV on Egyptian affairs?Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

No, Its not bias towards anyone -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Al Jazeera's the last one to be off-base here. theyre the most active, the ONLY foreign outlet with cameras on the ground (CNN/BBC are using local broadcasts and their broadcast is crap and laden with BS)Lihaas (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

They are not the only foreign outlet with cameras on the ground, but Al-Jazeera's reports are among the most accurate, as far as I can see. The commentary generally supports the protesters, and - as with all other news channels that I know of - it's not always clearly set apart from the news. So as with most other news sources, it's important to distinguish between statements of fact and statements of opinion. In my view, this task is less difficult with regard to Al-Jazeera than with regard to CNN or FOX News.  Cs32en Talk to me  06:06, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The y were int he early days. CNN/BBC using local broadcasts with their commentary.Lihaas (talk) 12:02, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Russia Toady

The question is:- Is Russia Today a state run propaganda machine?Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

No, Its not bias towards anyone as far as I can see-- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

state-run, yes. do they make up/distort news? nothing of the sort been seen yet.Lihaas (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

They totally do, mostly in the cases where they can make some kind of spin that would make Russian regime look better/America worse. Including a lot of shameless lies, promoting silly conspiracy theories (9/11, UFOs, everything), veeeery blunt war propaganda (Georgia, North Caucasus), etc. It's not "Russian CNN", it's not "Russian Al Jazeera", it's Soviet-style. There are so many other, better sources. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 12:23, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I know this silly, but I think the article is about Egypt so I dont RT is gonna try to make Russia look good regarding this topic because it has nothing to do with Russia -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 13:35, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Honestly I don't know what are they saying about this, also seemingly nobody is using them as a source here anyway so it doesn't even really matter. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 13:42, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, yes, CNN International has no obvious bias. Fine, then, lets scrap it from here too!Lihaas (talk) 14:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually CNN is not only privately-owned, it's also highly "anti-American" so much that many right-wing nuts even call it "Communist News Network" for this reason (supposedly, it's an opposite of their favourite Fox News). Now, enough of OT discussion, it doesn't matter as much RT sucks because nobody here is even citing it anyway. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 15:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Ha! anti-american. youve clearly not seen CNN International or heard of Octavia Nasr for Arab bias.Lihaas (talk) 22:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Press TV

The question is:- Is Press TV state run propaganda machine?Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

No, Its not. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

ditto and per RT. (even if its state-run, so is BBC, France 24, RT, etc)Lihaas (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

You don't know RT apparently. Only Grozny TV[13] has more Soviet-style English-language propaganda. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 12:31, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

youre quopting one such pov to cite another pov?v Lihaas (talk) 14:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

You can take a sample of Grozny TV pseudo-Islamic quasi-Stalinism yourself if you want and you don't believe me:[14], now enough of this OT here too. --94.246.150.68 (talk) 15:16, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Nile TV

The question is:- Is Nile TV compromised by the civil crisis in their own country? Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Its. I have been watching as many TV as I can. and yes, its. It belongs to the government. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

possibly, though i wouldnt exclude it. It can go in with the caveat of where its from (same for press tv if people so determine here)Lihaas (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

News from Nile TV should be treated as statements from an involved party, and the notability of information offered by Nile TV should be corroborated by third party sources.  Cs32en Talk to me  06:11, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Al-Mihwar TV

The question is:- Is Al-Mihwar TV compromised by the civil crisis in their own country? Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Its. I have been watching as many TV as I can. and yes, its. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

see aboveLihaas (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

CCTV 9

The question is:- Is CCTV 9 bias and POV on Egyptian affairs?Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

No, Its not bias towards anyone -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

i dont know about this, but id be inclined to say the same as above.Lihaas (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Jerusalem Post

The question is:- Is the Jerusalem Post bias and POV on Egyptian affairs?Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Honestly, it depends on the writer. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 12:05, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

again like the above it obviously has its sides, but id put it in with the respective caveat. although for general facts doesnt seem too off.Lihaas (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The Jerusalem Post sometimes contains pertinent information that cannot be easily found anywhere else. In some cases, however, it puts a rather peculiar spin on news, especially in the headlines and summaries. For example, if Reuters reports that X has criticized what Y wrote, the Jerusalem Post may well condense this to "X condemns Y". Non-standard vocabulary with regard to the Occupied Territories is another issue. For sensitive information, attributing material from the Jerusalem Post seems to be appropriate.  Cs32en Talk to me  06:17, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Radio Kol Israel

The question is:- Is Radio Kol Israel bias and POV on Egyptian affairs?Wipsenade (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

ditto jpost.Lihaas (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Asianews.it

Flagrant POV from the get-go. Just look at its mission and what it seeks. This ought to be blacklisted.Lihaas (talk) 14:54, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Al-Ta'awun

The question is:- Is the Al-Ta'awun compromised by the civil crisis in their own country? Wipsenade (talk) 15:20, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

France 24

The question is:- Is the France 24 bias and POV on Egyptian's affairs?---82.14.55.79 (talk) 16:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

No, Its not bias towards anyone -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 16:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Car running over people

Does anyone know who this car belonged to that ran over people? [15] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:42, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The US Embassy released a statement that it wasn't an employee of theirs.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 15:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Where was the source for that statement? Dinkytown talk 16:36, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

LA Times--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:14, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

did any1 add it? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 19:23, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Nope.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Arrests; Raids

Here's an article from the New York Times that discusses the myriad of arrests that has occurred during the protests, including the high number of arrests of journalists and human rights workers. At its very beginning, it also explains how, while Vice President Omar Suleiman has been given the reigns of control, he seems to be perpetuating the same tactics that Mubarak was doing anyways.

Furthermore, there's information in that article about some raids that I don't think we've heard about as of yet. Obviously, it discusses the Al Jazeera raid, but it also mentions a raid on the office of the Muslim Brotherhood that was hosting their Web site. And it also discusses a raid on the Hisham Mubarak Legal Center and its 35 human rights workers and civil rights lawyers. I don't think any of us have heard about this raid as of yet. That should probably go into domestic, i'm assuming?

These two paragraphs just boggle my mind,

"One of the young organizers, Ahmed Eid, was talking on his mobile phone when he saw an army officer and a police officer approaching his friends’ table. “I thought at first that it was just to check their IDs,” he later wrote in a group e-mail to human rights workers. “When I found that it is taking longer than usual and that they had 3 plain-clothed men with them, I felt that they were going to be arrested. I decided to stand afar and follow up with them over the phone.”

After one of their wives confirmed that the group had been arrested, a human rights lawyer went to the Haram police station to inquire about their defense. He, too, was arrested. On Saturday night, a human rights worker said they had been released, but there were no details given."

Geez... Silverseren^C 04:31, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

You may wish to give a quick look to Omar Suleiman, and there is more useful information from outside groups such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the Committee to Protect Journalists. A few other news articles worth a read:

• New York Times: 2 Detained Reporters Saw Police’s Methods -outlines NYT encounter with secret police
• TIME: Egypt's Campaign Against Foreign Media: One Reporter's Story - outlines police working with thugs on street
• TIME: Egyptian State TV: Let Us Tell You What's Really Happening - outlines propaganda from Egyptian state TV
• TIME: Egyptian Journalist Dies in Cairo Unrest - details snipers shooting an Egyptian journalist covering police brutality
• Egypt's Torture Victims Describe Beatings, Electroshock, Rape Threats - outlines Egyptian complaints of Beatings, Electroshock, Rape Threats from the U.S.-funded Mubarak regime
• Committee to Protect Journalists: http://cpj.org/2011/02/mubarak-intensifies-press-attacks-with-assaults-de.php - outlines Mubarak regime's assault on journalists
• Human Rights Watch: “Work on Him Until He Confesses” - outlines systemic torture symptomatic of 30 years of Mubarak's rule under 'emergency law'

--76.214.104.173 (talk) 07:12, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

That Time article on Nile TV is just fascinating. :o Silverseren^C 07:26, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

To me it reads more of a fictional dystopian oligarchical society, but 'chilling' suffices as well. Bad enough that atleast an anchor and a deputy head have resigned [16][17] --76.214.104.173 (talk) 07:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

It's like i'm reading something right out of a fiction book. But, yes, those sources should be very, very useful. Silverseren^C 07:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Martial law to be lifted

TV reports that the govt. has agreed in negotiations to lift the 30-year state of martial law once the situation in the country has stabilized, "when security permits it". (What it would have to look like for them to agree this has happened is another question.) Abrazame (talk) 14:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Other concessions include:

• Freedom of the press
• Banks reopen today
• Freedom of the press

Abrazame (talk) 14:03, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Concessions also include changes to the constitution that would establish term limits for the presidency. Abrazame (talk) 14:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

If you can find a link to a source online to the martial law lift it would be really great.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:25, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/7711589/Egypt-lifts-emergency-laws-after-30-years.html

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=23190#axzz1DCWce3Xl

Abrazame (talk) 17:31, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Apparently the Muslim Brotherhood has pulled back its demonstrators from the streets in order to give the government time to enact the agreements. NBC report. Abrazame (talk) 17:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The Martial law won't be lifted there is a new law in place but it's as bad as the emergency law anyways...I hope the emergency law would be lifted anytime soon, however the telegraph report u listed is from last year long before the protests and isn't a reaction to the protests.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Wow, the joke's on me. Not only is the Telegraph report from 2010 but — get this one — the Daily Star report is from 2006! I can't believe I didn't even look at the tiny dates. My apologies for that, a bit scattered today, logging off in a moment. Of course we all have heard by now that the promise has been made again today... Abrazame (talk) 20:01, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

arab world map

[18] was removed saying it doesnt below here, in which case it could be moved. where would it be appropriate. on this page intl reactiosn seems best.Lihaas (talk) 14:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Plagiarism in Elections section?

Does the Elections section in background constitute plagiarism?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

If the bulletpoints/numbered points are direct translations of the original Arabic demands, it seems reasonable that we include them word for word after having introduced them as their requests/demands/amendments, as one might when discussing the wording of a bill or a constitution. However, the introductory content is lifted from the source as well, which is plagiarism. When reading one of the sources elsewhere in the article because I was interested to know more about that point, it occurred to me that that section had been lifted word for word as well, so of course I altered that text. We should probably assume that one of the editors working on the article is unclear about the policy against using exact content from published sources and/or isn't proficient enough in English to paraphrase. Abrazame (talk) 17:50, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Condensing the background section to one paragraph

How about we condense the background to one paragraph and then add another paragraph about the lead up to the protests?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:57, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we need to condense anything just yet. As discussed elsewhere on this page, there is no pressing need just yet for size considerations. If you have something to add, give it a go. Abrazame (talk) 18:08, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I guess I can wait until the protests are over to carefully work on the background section.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 18:20, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I reverted your edit removing the Foreign relations, Military, and Alexandria church bombing sections. My reason for this is multifold. Firstly, we note that Mubarak has acted as he has these last three decades in part because he didn't want the Muslim Brotherhood to be involved in the country's politics, yet we say not a word about the reasons why. The position of Islamist groups regarding Israel, which are seen as being at odds with peaceful coexistence with Israel as committed to in the Peace Accords, are at the core of all of that. The interactions between the military and the people as differ from the interactions between the police and the people has profoundly shaped these protests and been a primary storyline here (i.e. that the military did not come down on the people and either drive them off or create a bloodbath). And the relationship between religions within Egypt, and the conditions for various groups, is a major aspect of both the oppression and lack of rights some of the people feel on the one hand, and the fear the government has had that the country would become a Muslim theocracy that would not honor the treaties on the other hand.

But please don't feel that because I reverted your removal of what is there that you shouldn't feel free to add a paragraph of something you felt was missing from the lead-up to the protests. Indeed, it isn't that everything has to remain precisely as is, and if there is a better way of covering the relevant background, I'd be interested to see what people think that might be. Please do feel free to recompose those aspects I reverted if you think you can improve on them, but I reiterate that there is no pressing need to drastically reduce the background section. Abrazame (talk) 18:39, 6 February 2011 (UTC)