| Subject of the interview is Avatar: The Last Airbender. Its transcript was released in three parts on AvatarSpirit.Net, originally titled "An Avatar Spring Break with Mike and Bryan". | |
| Introduction by Robert Moscoe | My morning in the Land of Avatar began when I arrived at the walled fortress of Nicktoon Studios, cartoon characters guarding the walls. Once ushered in, I was greeted by the Senior Director of Communications for Nick Animation. She spoke with me a bit, sharing some ground rules regarding no pushing for spoilers of Season Three. She also communicated that there is no set date yet for Season Three airing. She said all that is known for now is that it won't air in April, and most certainly will begin airing before the end of 2007. With that, it was up to Mike and Bryan's office.
I was greeted at the office by Mike. We then passed through the Avatar section of Nick Studios where I was able to view some still art from Season Three. Based on what was there, I can confirm their later assurances to me that Season Three will be absolutely awesome! When we got to the conference room where the interview would take place, Bryan joined us and we sat down to talk. |
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Part 1[]
| Robert Moscoe | Thank you again both of you for making time to talk with the fans about the Avatar universe and the great work you're doing to tell this cool story. We love Avatar, and love supporting it with the website. |
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| Michael Dante DiMartino | Thanks for the work you do on the site. It's a great service to the fans...a great place to let them gather together and talk about the show. |
| Moscoe | Well, I've been told I can't ask when Season Three is supposed to start airing, but if I didn't at least try the members were going to tear me limb from limb. |
| Bryan Konietzko | What you can tell them is that we have nothing to do with it. It's not up to us. |
| DiMartino | Just tell them to be patient and that it's really worth the wait. |
| Moscoe | How do you feel about Avatar's success, both critically and popularly? |
| DiMartino | It's great. It's really a treat to see how it's connected with kids and adults...teenagers...across the board. Everyone has responded to it. Not just liked the show but really connected to it. |
| Konietzko | Our goal was that we just really wanted to tell the story all the way through. We really just wanted to get to the end of the story. |
| Moscoe | The three seasons? |
| Konietzko | Yeah. Luckily it's taken off on an even bigger life than that. Keeps growing into other things. So we feel great. Since that was our goal, and it was a pretty high goal, the rest is icing. |
| Moscoe | Do you pay attention to what goes on on the internet? The fan enthusiasm for the show...that sorta thing? |
| DiMartino | A little bit. We get fan art, people will send in mail and we look at some of that. We don't really have a whole lot of time to spend much time on the internet, but it's really cool to see the fan art. There's some cool stuff out there. |
| Konietzko | Yeah, coming to work late for a meeting, like today, and seeing a new piece of fan art on the wall is usually my exposure to it. It's pretty cool. |
| Moscoe | I'm not supposed to talk about Season Three but do you have any thoughts as to what the future of Avatar might be other than the live action movie that they're talking about, which will be a little off on its own? |
| DiMartino | Well, we'll be pretty involved with that, so that'll keep us very busy the next few years. |
| Moscoe | So any future for the cartoon? |
| DiMartino | Well, we don't know yet. We've got some ideas. |
| Konietzko | We've always got tricks up our sleeves. |
| Moscoe | Well I know shows often continue on into OAVs and movie events...that sorta thing. |
| DiMartino | We love the avatar universe so we want to keep telling stories in it if we have the outlet for it. We're just not interested in watering this storyline down, or filling it...keeping it dragging on. We try to make it as potent as we can. That's our big priority. Still, we'll do some other things. [Laughing.] We're not retiring. |
| Moscoe | Can you talk at all about what you're thinking of in the future? |
| Both | [Laugh.] Hush hush... really secret... |
| Moscoe | Are you going to be at San Diego Comic Con this year? |
| Konietzko | We're going to try to be there. |
| DiMartino | Unfortunately I can't be there, but we will definitely have a panel of some kind. We haven't actually worked out any of the details. Fans should know, Avatar will be there in some form or another. |
| Konietzko | We were there two years, right? And then couldn't be last year. We love it every time. It's great, and we look forward to it. |
| Moscoe | Okay...shipping. |
| All | [Laughter.] |
| Moscoe | I have never seen shipping take on a life of its own as I have with the fans of Avatar. What do you think of all this? |
| Konietzko | I think it's important to note one thing I have heard from the internet is that some fans have the idea we've put shipping into the show because they've asked for it...requested it. This is totally not the case. Mike and I like to do melodrama stuff and we wanted that in there. Not that it's all cheesy, but we wanted that from the get-go. Five years ago when we were developing this. |
| DiMartino | Yeah, Aang-Katara, that romance. Some stuff developed along the way, and we're glad some fans are more receptive to that element of the show, but it was in the DNA of the thing from the start. |
| Konietzko | I remember until mid-way through first season I never even knew what shipping was, and then suddenly on the internet... |
| DiMartino | Suddenly on the internet you had writing about shipping and I was like, "What is this?" What is this phenomenon about? |
| Konietzko | Yeah. I was all like "they're shipping love to each other"? |
| DiMartino | [Laughs.] |
| Konietzko | So yeah, I definitely didn't understand. But now of course that's our language of love. We're like, "Can we add some shippin' in here?" That was even the name of the short you wrote, right Mike? |
| Moscoe | Schooltime Shipping? |
| DiMartino | Yeah. THAT one was definitely a response to the fans. |
| Konietzko | They call that fan service, right? |
| All | [Laughter.] |
| DiMartino | So THAT was a little nugget of fan service. Otherwise, though, we're just entertaining ourselves. |
| Moscoe | The Track Team has intimated there may be more of those online shorts coming up. Is that true? |
| DiMartino | We made three of them. We just don't know when or where they will air...yet. But they are there. |
| Konietzko | We love 'em...we're really proud of them. We made three total. They were very fun. |
| Moscoe | Are the other ones like "Schooltime Shipping", kinda fun and out of continuity? |
| DiMartino | Yeah, same kind of thing. Same super-deform style. Funny little... One's a Sokka-based one... |
| Konietzko | I thought you were gonna give it away. |
| DiMartino | I'm not gonna give it away. So yeah, we had a good time. |
| Konietzko | Because while Avatar is a really creative project to work on, you know it's a universe and it has rules...boundaries and things...and often Mike and I as we oversee the different processes we're like, "No no they wouldn't do that, no no that wouldn't happen in this world." After years of being a nay sayer it was fun to be able to say, "Yeah go for it!" These rules that we usually have, throwing most of them out the window. And also, we're fans of the crazier manga...and anime stuff as well. Obviously it's nice to pepper that stuff into shows, but it was fun to just dive into that style. |
| DiMartino | It's cool to have an alternate version of characters. Really fun. We find that doesn't take away from the main storyline. I think everyone knows they're pretty separate...entities. |
| Konietzko | Yeah. |
| Moscoe | There are a lot of things that are related to Avatar on the internet and such that are official from Nick. You have the comics, the Nick.com material, the trading card game. What is canon? Sometimes these things will talk major things. New characters in the game cards. The comics mention Kyoshi died at 230 year old. How much is canon? |
| DiMartino | The trading cards cards- no. That was characters they created themselves for the game. We didn't have any input on that. |
| Konietzko | They needed a lot of content for the trading card game, like hundreds of cards, and there's only so much Mike and I and the people here have to guide that peripheral stuff. And that was during a really busy time. |
| DiMartino | But as for the online 'spirit world' thing, I wrote it and we all worked on it so I'd say that is real. |
| Konietzko | [In a spooky voice.] It's Dogma. |
| DiMartino | And yes, the Kyoshi thing is true. We sat down and decided yes, she lived to be a really old lady. |
| Konietzko | You know Bumi lived over 100 years. We had kind of set it up. It's not so foreign in Chinese mythology to have like the Taoist immortals, these characters or legendary figures who lived 500-600 years. It wasn't one of the earliest ideas we had, but pretty early on Mike and I were of the idea that these people with such enhanced Chi fields might live a longer time. We've shown that Kyoshi was a pretty robust person. |
| DiMartino | [Laughter.] |
| Konietzko | She's a bit of a statuesque giant. We decided it would be kinda cool that she lived for a really long time and could move islands around. |
| Moscoe | When did you decide Kyoshi was going to be the Avatar before Roku? In "The Southern Air Temple" the statue before Roku doesn't look like the Kyoshi we came to see in just the next episode. |
| DiMartino | Yeah it was. |
| Konietzko | It was like... |
| DiMartino | Because Kyoshi was the next episode. |
| Konietzko | We hadn't finalized her design, so it was kinda reminiscent. The script for "Warriors of Kyoshi" was in the works during that episode and Lauren was still working on the boards. It's kinda like in different countries you'll see statues of the Buddha depending on where you are and they're different. There's a margin for interpretation. |
| Note | Coming up, Part II- The Avatar world, the basis of bending, and the First Family of Fire! |
Part 2[]
| Moscoe | Is the Avatar world flat or round? |
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| Konietzko | [In a spooky voice.] It's round. |
| Moscoe | It's round! Darn it! |
| Konietzko | I don't see how it could be flat. Why are you even thinking about that? |
| Moscoe | Well, it's the seasons. The kids fly from one pole to the other in a short amount of time and the season doesn't change. |
| Konietzko | Um...let's not talk about that. |
| DiMartino | [Laughs.] It's one of those continuity things where you'll just have to go with it. |
| Moscoe | Seriously, though, it's a testament to your show that so many scientifically-minded, left-brained people are such really big fans of it. We even have a physics doctoral candidate who specializes in researching black holes and she and I are always going back and forth on the cosmology of your universe. |
| DiMartino | She's gonna find a lot of mistakes. Plenty of 'black holes' for sure. Lots of suspension of disbelief right there. |
| Moscoe | Okay, if the world is round, is there stuff on the other side, the opposite side of the map? |
| Konietzko | Five years ago Mike and I talked about that. A lot of what you see wraps around to the other side of the round globe. The map you see is one of those distorted maps to make round appear flat. I think we had talked that a lot of the other hemisphere is water...is ocean. What else might be over there...who knows... |
| Moscoe | Okay, next I know I'm going really left brained and you can call me a geek because I am, but in "The Fortuneteller" you have a pair of twins...kids...one is an earthbender and one isn't. So is bending genetic, or is it some sort of spiritual thing? How does it work? |
| Konietzko | Mike and I just got new puppies. They're brothers. They have the same mother and father. Same litter. Mike's dog can just sit in a crate and be happy as a clam. My dog just loses all control...everything. Who knows why these things happen? They're beyond our full understanding. |
| DiMartino | Yeah, Katara's mom and dad weren't benders. Maybe it's a recessive gene. I've always seen it as more spiritual connections, though. A little bit mysterious... |
| Konietzko | I mean we've definitely talked about it. I think, again, sometimes we might not know...it's more of what we don't want it to be. We didn't want it to be like there is a lineage...a royal family or something...and these people can bend and then there's everyone else as nonbending, people who never will. Some sort of caste system. Mike and I are more attracted to more of the flux type universe. The only constant is change, variation, that sorta thing. I'm sure it's a bunch of factors. |
| Interviewer's note | About 20 mins after the interview, Bryan came back to me and we spoke a little more about the basis of bending off recorder. He described bending as more of a talent. You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability. Some people have more inherent talent than others, while others with minimal inherent talent can still develop it through hard work and practice. He reiterated a connection to the spiritual energies is the underlying basis. How it manifests is based on upbringing and experience. |
| Moscoe | So could Teo's people perhaps grow into the airbenders of the future? |
| Konietzko | I think Teo's people are more refugees. They probably came together because they're not benders and really had no way to defend themselves. Then fell under this nutty guy who has his own skill and aura of authority. I don't think it's an ethnic group of nonbenders, rather they were all just escaping the disasters of war. |
| DiMartino | Yeah, I think if you've gone through puberty and not found any bending abilities, you're probably not going to find them. I think it manifests early. |
| Konietzko | Although that would make a pretty outrageous story. Some 80 year old guy... |
| DiMartino | "Wow, I never knew!" |
| Konietzko | ...fire starts shooting out... |
| Moscoe | I was just curious if the airbenders could just come back from the general population rather than necessarily having to come back through Aang or anyone else who came from the airbending lineage. |
| DiMartino | Aang is the last airbender, so I don't think it's possible for airbending to spontaneously develop in the general population. |
| Moscoe | It seems like all the Air Nomads were benders. Did they exile everyone who didn't manifest the trait, or did they really have such a high percentage of born benders? |
| Konietzko | We always have liked the idea of who will be a bender and who won't be to be kind of an ambiguous mystery, even to the people in the Avatar world. From early on we thought the Air Nomads would be all benders. Again it's like Mike was saying, it's more of a spiritual connection. But they have...they had...the smallest population. Earth Kingdom has the biggest population but the smallest percentage of benders. So yeah, there were these notions we kicked around that is wasn't going to be regimented or ruled through specific lineages. We liked the idea that each of the cultures have a different spiritual vantage point...coming at it from a different angle. |
| DiMartino | Then the Air Nomads would have been the most spiritual...the most connected to the spiritual energy of the Earth. |
| Konietzko | But the most detached from society. More monastic. |
| Moscoe | Did the Avatar pre-date other bending, or did bending predate the Avatar? |
| Konietzko | We've definitely talked about that. But, in the event we ever did something with that, we'd rather not go into that. Mike and I for years have talked about that...over many a ping-pong game. We both find it really interesting, so we really don't want to just throw away something so integral to a story we might be telling. |
| Moscoe | Can you talk about the origins of Ba Sing Se at all? It seems like it's been there a long time off in its own little world. General Chin had the choice of Ba Sing Se or Kyoshi's Peninsula. A city with big walls or The Avatar. Something about Ba Sing Se scared him more than Kyoshi. [Shivers.] |
| DiMartino | It's an ancient city and it's definitely been very cut off from the rest of the Earth Kingdom throughout the ages. It's kinda based on Chinese History. How the Forbidden City was off on its own and the Emperor wouldn't leave there...the safety of their kingdom...very often. It was also an interesting idea that a kid could be raised in this super confined area and never have seen the outside world. So yeah, Ba Sing Se's isolation is a tradition that's gone back for a looong time. |
| Konietzko | In 220 you get the sense that maybe as an effect of Omashu and the origins of earthbending, all the tunneling, that the original Ba Sing Se was underground. Even at the start it was the epitome of being removed and protected. That's been in Ba Sing Se's DNA from the start. Even when it surfaced it was still walling everything off...like a shell. |
| Moscoe | If you add up years, with Ozai ruling perhaps 10 years and Azulon around 23, that means Sozin ruled for 70 years after he started the war. How old was he when the war started? |
| Konietzko | We do have a timeline we made quite a while ago. |
| DiMartino | Actually we have figured it all out. I can't quote it all off the top of my head right now, but there is an episode of season three where a lot of your questions about Roku and Sozin will be addressed. All about the war starting, stuff like that. Something to look forward to, so we don't want to speak publicly on that. Really, folks'll be happier if we don't. |
| Post Interview note from Bryan | "I checked the timeline, and without giving too much away, here's a breakdown: Sozin actually ruled for about 20 years after he started the war, so he was about 82 when he started the war. Azulon (born shortly after the comet came) ruled for about 75 years and died at the age of 95. Ozai has ruled for only 5 years. Those are the main milestones." |
| Moscoe | Iroh said Zuko's father, grandfather, and great-grandfather had searched for the Avatar and failed. This suggests Ozai hasn't been sheltered in the palace all his life. Did Iroh join the military and then Ozai by default go search for the Avatar, or did Ozai actually want to go on the wild goose chase? |
| Konietzko | Another good question. It may come from a misconception though. I always imagined that Sozin wasn't actually on the ship floating around looking for Aang. Rather he was sending his fleet out on the search. |
| DiMartino | The others weren't like Zuko. |
| Moscoe | It was more metaphorically 'looking for the Avatar'. |
| Konietzko | Yeah, all through the ages that was part of what they did. They'd always be sending out missions. |
| DiMartino | Part of the war budget. |
| Konietzko | Yeah, it was like, "Sir, why are you spending so much on Avatar search? This is like the Holy Grail, you'll never find anything." |
| DiMartino | And anyway, by the time it came to Ozai, he realized, although he didn't know what happened, there was no way anyone was ever going to find him. That's why he sent Zuko off... |
| Konietzko | A bit of a 'fool's errand'. |
| DiMartino | Yeah. The expectation was that he never would find anything. |
| Moscoe | So Ozai may never have left the Fire Nation capitol? |
| Konietzko | Ozai is not like some kind of palace dweller. We will say that. I'm not sure how much he's ventured out into the world, but he's not like the Earth King where he's isolated. The Fire Nation is a little more 'hands on'. It's not uncommon that you will have to fight or duel for political or military positions or purposes. There's a big difference. I think in the Fire Nation, unlike in Ba Sing Se, if there's a prince who's 30 years old, he's probably fought pretty intensely a few times. Had to prove his worth. Not unlike Japanese Samurai in their day. They had to make a name for themselves, they had to have some fame. Fire Nation, like a lot of other militaristic cultures throughout history, has warriors who have to prove themselves either through some battle, test of martial skill, or duel. Fire Nation's a little more aggressive like that. Ozai's not sitting around eating Bon Bon's in the palace, he's working out. |
| Moscoe | Well it seems pretty clear he was making sure he was in the palace to take advantage of when Azulon wasn't there anymore. |
| Konietzko | Yeah...one thing that is genetic is he and Azula. Manipulative, plotting genes swimming around. |
| Moscoe | Did Ursa and Ozai choose each other or were they an arranged marriage? |
| DiMartino | I imagine they are arranged, but we have not talked about it. We have talked in general about the Fire Nation and that arranged marriages would be more common, especially in the royalty. |
| Konietzko | Also, there was a time when it probably wasn't such a bad marriage. I think they probably started okay. Certainly better than it ended up. |
| Moscoe | What about Zuko or Azula? Do they have arrangements? |
| Konietzko | We had talked about some ideas we never ended up doing for season three where Azula had an arranged marriage. It's not something we followed through with, though. |
| Moscoe | Can Zuko see out of his scarred eye? |
| Konietzko | He can. He just can't open it very wide, the skin's not soft. |
| Moscoe | It doesn't appear he can cry out of it, though, Schooltime Shipping notwithstanding, but that doesn't count. |
| Konietzko | Yeah, the tear ducts also got burned up pretty good, but yeah, he can see. |
| Moscoe | Ty Lee fascinates a lot of people. Where did you get the idea of her chi blocking? |
| Konietzko | It's a very common notion in traditional Chinese martial arts...actually throughout all martial arts. It's very real, not some 'hocus pocus'. Kids don't try this at home, but there are nerve clusters in the body which can be used for healing using certain techniques or you can use them to interrupt body cycles and systems. I'm not an expert, but from what I've been taught most martial arts spend a fair amount of their curriculum regarding striking pressure points. They talk about interrupting the flow of chi. Benders are only as strong as their chi flow, they need this chi to flow from the breath, and then extend it past their body and manipulate or manifest the element. So as the chi is going from the breath and to the muscles, someone can interrupt that flow and they then can't bend. But it would work on a nonbender too because everybody needs chi. Chi can be translated as 'breath', the energy you get from breathing and oxygenation. So yeah, we thought it would be cool. We're always looking for some variety in skills and style. We thought it would make a cool character. |
| DiMartino | When we were coming up with Azula, we decided we wanted to have these two friends with her. We didn't want them to be firebenders. They wouldn't be as good as her, so why would she keep these other, lesser, firebenders around? So we decided that she would have basically picked out two people who had certain skills that she did not have. Ty Lee with her acrobatics and Mai with her super pin-point accuracy and quick draw skills. |
| Konietzko | Azula, even as a child in the playground, was able to recognize people who were better than her in certain areas and keep them close until she either became as good as them or had need of them. She's always manipulating, always playing an angle. |
| Moscoe | Is it accurate to refer to Mai as an assassin? |
| Konietzko | Not exactly. |
| DiMartino | I don't think she's been hired for any assassin's duties yet. |
| Moscoe | I mean her training... |
| Konietzko | In my mind, her training came from boredom. It's more or less self-taught. She's our interpretation of a stereotypical goth teenager or something and I just imagined her in her dark bedroom throwing stuff into the wall. It just grew out of this boredom. As we mentioned at PMX, you have to use the term ninja carefully. Same with assassin. An assassin is someone hired to eliminate someone without a fight, or at least not a fair fight. That's pretty intense. So Mai's not an assassin. |
| Konietzko | She's so accurate that she can just pin people without even touching flesh. |
| Moscoe | Was Toph blinded by Ty Lee when she was chi blocked? |
| Konietzko | Would she not have been able to see? Probably not. |
| DiMartino | Yeah it would have inhibited her ability to 'see'. But it wouldn't have lasted too long. |
| Konietzko | I've been struck in pressure points. It's like a funny bone, but more intense. Your whole body, tension and awareness, just goes to one point. All your systems are interrupted. When you come out of it, it's kinda like pins and needles. |
| DiMartino | I think she would have been temporarily stunned. Kinda like the Star Trek stun setting on the phaser. |
| Moscoe | I have to ask. Anything you can say about Iroh's experiences after Lu Ten's death and before he returned home to the Fire Nation capitol? |
| DiMartino | He definitely had a 'walkabout', if you will, where he left the battlefield and had some sort of journey throughout the world after Lu Ten's death and before he returned to the Fire Nation. |
| Konietzko | We're seeing Iroh in his golden years, when he's been softened by loss which has changed his perspective on what's important to him and what's important in life. As we've shown and had talked about, he was once a serious military giant, a very capable general, and he was very fierce. To me he's such an interesting character because a lot of times people find themselves in situations which they happen to be very good at. He was born into this very powerful, aggressive family and just so happened to have a gift and the strength for it. But not all people are just one way, and he certainly had this gentle, kind side which appreciated life, all forms of life, and he could appreciate all cultures. If you look back on the great swordmasters of Asian history, a lot of them were artists, poets, masters of tea ceremony, actors, and the like. So I think when he lost something really near and dear, he went on a spiritual journey. He was lost and that other part of him was calmed. It's not gone, it's just not the most important thing to him anymore. |
| Moscoe | So he was a very different man before the death of Lu Ten. |
| Konietzko | Yeah. He was never a cruel man. But he was very good at what he did, and it was the role he was supposed to play. He went along with it, very successfully. |
| Moscoe | So he would have been ready to use his grandfather's comet, Sozin's Comet, to wipe out the Earth Kingdom if he hadn't already done it the old fashioned way? |
| DiMartino | My impression is that he would be more strategic. Maybe a little more 'inventive'. |
| Konietzko | Even back in the day he may have been into conquering, but... |
| DiMartino | He was more the pragmatic military guy. |
| Konietzko | It was a job someone had to do. He didn't take pleasure in it, at least not in hurting people, but it had to be done. Now it's behind him. It's really important to Mike and I on the show that these aren't black and white characters. We love stories of redemption. That it's possible for people to elevate to something better than they started out with, or maybe that they fell into. That's really paramount to Mike and I. |
| Moscoe | Have you thought about what was going through Iroh's mind when he got back home and his brother was on the throne? |
| Konietzko | Yeah, we've thought about that. He was tired. He'd lost his appetite for power struggles and military might. He was like, "You want it, have it." |
| DiMartino | He wasn't going to put up a fight for it. He'd figured out during the journey what was really important. Being the Fire Lord was no longer on the top of that list. |
| Konietzko | He'd scaled down his perspective. He'd always dealt with the world, continents, and armies and navies. Now he was just honed in on Zuko as a sort of adopted son. If he could just help this poor boy whose father had kinda abandoned him. |
| Note | In the third and last installment, we discover what Sokka really saw in "The Swamp" and what motivated Zuko to join his sister in "The Crossroads of Destiny"! |
Part 3[]
| Moscoe | Some have theorized Momo is the reincarnation of Monk Gyatso. Anything to that? |
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| Konietzko | [To DiMartino.] You told me that once... |
| DiMartino | We theorized that once, it was an idea that was pitched once...in the writer's room. But we didn't go with it. |
| Konietzko | He's a reincarnation of another Momo. |
| All | [Laughter.] |
| Konietzko | Not having anything to do with Momo's reincarnation, but one thing I wish we had put into the show was how those animals became integral to airbender culture. We had thought that Air Nomads as they were herding these air bison around would often fall asleep on their bison and drop their staves. They might have dropped it a few miles back and couldn't find it. They ended up training these lemurs to retrieve their staves. We're always thinking of how, "cut away 1000 years ago and this Air Nomad's staff falls and this lemur grabs it for him." That was a fun little idea of why they had these lemurs. |
| DiMartino | We're also always thinking about how Bumi said, "You're going to need Momo too." Like he thinks Momo is clearly more than he seems to be. |
| Konietzko | Hey, Momo helped out on "The Drill". Momo has really helped Aang. |
| DiMartino | Yeah, he's saved his life a few times. |
| Moscoe | In "The Swamp", Sokka sees Yue's image twice. One time seemed very different from the other. Was Yue actually one of those, or were they both just the Swamp itself manifesting his own insecurities? |
| Konietzko | You're talking about the one time he just runs into her in the Swamp, but then later there was that montage? The second time was more of a montage, it wasn't a literal thing. They all didn't really see what they thought they saw. It was more their own brains... |
| DiMartino | Yeah, their brains playing tricks on them. |
| Moscoe | So both times was his own... |
| Konietzko | Yeah it was his own conscience. You can see when he meets up with Suki again that Yue is weighing on him. That he failed to protect her. She wasn't there in "The Swamp". |
| Moscoe | Kinda like his guilty conscience? |
| Konietzko | Yeah. |
| Moscoe | Even though she did what she wanted to do? |
| Konietzko | Yeah. I don't think she held any grudges. She's not like, "Didn't you know you were supposed to stop me? Why'd you let me touch the fish?" |
| Moscoe | Who's idea was it to have Toph accidentally kiss Suki in the "Serpent's Pass"? Where'd that come from? |
| DiMartino | It was while we were developing the story, but I can't remember who was pitching it. It was our little recognition of this Toph-Sokka romantic interest. Toph having this little crush on Sokka, and we thought it would be funny to have it happen that way since she can't see in the water. A good comedic gag. |
| Moscoe | Can you talk at all about the White Lotus Society? |
| Konietzko | Not really. |
| DiMartino | Only that it is...prevalent. |
| Moscoe | Was Gyatso a member? |
| DiMartino | We will neither confirm nor deny he was a member. |
| Konietzko | He contributed funds. [Smiles tongue in cheek.] You'll learn more about the White Lotus Society in Season Three. |
| Moscoe | Are there going to be any more anthology episodes like "Tales of Ba Sing Se"? It was great to see the creative energies from folks not normally writing. |
| DiMartino | It was great. That was spearheaded by Aaron Ehasz, the Head Writer. We'd made it to Ba Sing Se and it seemed like a good time to try different episodes from what we usually would have done. One of my favorites from that was the Sokka poetry one. The one Lauren wrote. When else in Avatar would we be able to get Sokka into a poetry...a haiku slam? That was great. In the same way the shorts were great fun and a little bit liberating. But there won't be another one in Season Three. |
| Moscoe | I know you both took a special interest in the last two episodes of Season Two- "The Guru" and "The Crossroads of Destiny". Can you talk at all to why you took the reins, got more actively involved, in those two episodes? What you were working towards? |
| Konietzko | "The Guru" was an idea I'd had pretty early on and had pitched to Mike and Aaron during season two. Aang's gone through and done some pretty intense things, especially when he's in the Avatar State. Most series might gloss over that stuff and just move on the plot, but I wanted an episode where he had to stop and think though these things he'd been through. See how they were affecting him, his psychology. I just wanted a mid-point break, but Mike and Aaron really liked the idea of using it as a set-up for the big finale. That made it a little more intense. So Mike and I wrote that one, and he directed 220. |
| DiMartino | Partially because one of our directors had left, and there was an opening. The workload was also slightly lighter for me because the writing had wrapped up. So I thought I'd grab my chance to direct again. I'd directed before on Family Guy, King of the Hill, and shows like that, so I definitely missed that hands-on approach to making the episodes. A lot of episodes we write, I wish I could direct. |
| Konietzko | What we can say is we're doing the same on the last two episodes of Season Three. Mike and I and Aaron are very involved in those too. |
| DiMartino | We usually get involved for the really important episodes that progress the main storyline. Bryan, Aaron, or I will usually write it. Those are the ones which are very close to our hearts. Not that we don't love all of them, but there are certain ones you want to shepherd. We're planning on doing a lot of storyboarding on those finale episodes and we're going to go to Korea like we did for the pilot and really help out on the animation to personally make sure it's the coolest thing we could make- ever. |
| Moscoe | Can you say in which episode we'll finally get to see Ozai's face? |
| Konietzko | Not really. I will share he's really a cyclops... [Smiles tongue in cheek.] |
| DiMartino | Once you do see it, you'll see it a lot. You'll forget it took so long before you saw it. |
| Moscoe | Can you speak at all to Zuko's decision in "The Crossroads of Destiny"? He'd agreed with Iroh that Azula was psycho and had to be taken down, he'd been burnt literally by her, and then 'boom' he betrays his Uncle. |
| Konietzko | When you study Eastern philosophies, the ego is a really tough enemy or antagonist. Again, we like to treat our characters very realistically. In real life, people have moments of great weakness, usually tied in with the ego. Your siblings can push your buttons. I have four siblings, a brother and three sisters, and no one can get you like your siblings. Azula knew ALL the right buttons to push to play at his weaknesses, parts of his ego which were susceptible to her. She did it well, and it was a moment where he just tasted this thing which he's wanted and focused on, obsessed over, for so long. I think it was very realistic. |
| DiMartino | A lot of people were not happy with his choice. Actually, I thought that made it an awesome episode, that people felt that betrayed by him...which is how the kids felt. |
| Moscoe | I've seen the letters posted on your wall asking for you to rewrite it. |
| DiMartino | You know it's done for a reason. I think Zuko just had to go through that to eventually come out where he's going to. He's got a good side in him, we've seen it. It's just this other side is still banging on the door. Keeps getting in and messing him up. |
| Konietzko | Mike and I and Aaron and the writers...everybody...we want this to be entertaining. We want it to be fun to watch and exciting and emotionally engaging. But we certainly try to stay away from just being tricky, just for the sake of crazy twists to fool people. We really talk about these decisions. Even though we're trying to be entertaining, sometimes there are different perspectives. Sometimes you have to take your medicine. There are great movies I love where something harsh happens that upsets me, but later you come to understand it really needed to happen for the story they were trying to tell. It wasn't easy to swallow, but it makes for a better story. That's the case here. You know, people have big reactions, but we're unrattled. This is the story we're telling. |
| Moscoe | Aang was badly injured at the end of Season Two. There have been a lot of theories he was in the Avatar State and that he died. |
| Konietzko | Luckily, Sokka and the mechanist have been working on a robot Aang. He's exactly the same except his skin is blue and his arrow is orange. Pretty awesome. That thing's up and running by, like, 301. [Grins tongue in cheek.] |
| DiMartino and Moscoe | [Laughter.] |
| DiMartino | We made a point at the end of 220 to show that he woke up and he wasn't dead. The rest of your question will be answered with Season Three. |
| Konietzko | [In a spooky voice.] Roboooot... |
| Moscoe | You're having flashbacks to a previous show? |
| DiMartino and Konietzko | [Smile.] |
| Moscoe | Are we going to see the hippies again? I love the work Dee Bradley Baker did to bring Chong alive. |
| Konietzko | Yeah, Josh and Jeremy did great work on the songs. That was a very fun episode to make. We had a really good time. |
| Moscoe | Is Mai going to get any more opportunity with Zuko? Any more Mai on Zuko action? |
| Konietzko | Definitely stay tuned for that one. |
| Moscoe | Ty Lee's still sweet on Sokka? |
| Konietzko | She's kinda like a puppy. |
| Moscoe | Like in Schooltime Shipping? Whomever will reciprocate? |
| DiMartino and Konietzko | Right. |
| Moscoe | The Blue Spirit mask. Is that something really common in the Avatar world? Was there like some mythological Blue Spirit? It seems that some people seemed to know who the Blue Spirit was. |
| Konietzko | The Blue Spirit mask in our real world is a wizard mask in Chinese opera. We used the traditional design almost verbatim, except for coloration differences which we took upon ourselves. The idea is that it's not a unique mask in the Avatar world. There's a carriage that passes by in another episode where you see how he gets it the second time, I think in 204. The calligraphy says, "Happy Traveller's Opera Troupe," or something close to that. It's a little Easter Egg that shows a connection to our world. The Blue Spirit as a criminal personality came about with Zuko's actions in 113. |
| Moscoe | Okay, so turning it into a persona for actions like that was Zuko's idea. It's not like there was some Robin Hood-like figure he was drawing on? |
| Konietzko | It wasn't a pre-existing thing. Although that's actually a pretty cool idea. Maybe it was... |
| DiMartino | I like that idea. Some sorta historical... |
| Konietzko | Yeah. Maybe we'll change it, Bob. |
| Moscoe | I'm being told this is the last question. I'll ask a practical one. Some purported episode names are being spread around the internet through a source many deem reliable. I have information to deny, confirm, clarify, or even expand on this information. I've promised not to speak on what I know, however. Can I share just episode name info, or do you want to keep that still officially under wraps? |
| Konietzko | I'd rather you didn't, at least until Nick releases them. The internet is unfortunate that way. We appreciate people's appetite for the content we're creating. We really do. |
| DiMartino | I've been really amazed how people go crazy about entirely made-up stories and names. |
| Konietzko | We do appreciate that and we know they have a long wait for Season Three. |
| DiMartino | If we confirmed or corrected them, they wouldn't have anything to do in the meantime. |
| Konietzko | While we appreciate their enthusiasm and excitement and appetite, if they could just put themselves in Mike's and my position...everyone here. We have been slaving on these shows for like 9-10 months each and crafting the story in painstaking detail, everything so they get the absolute best we can do in a story unfolding for them. When you're 8 ½ months in and then something is leaked out, it's frustrating. It's like, "If you folks would just have some discretion and wait and not spread this stuff around like wildfire." But people get excited and want to share it. |
| DiMartino | [Whispering.] Just wait. |
| Konietzko | Yeah, just wait. |
| DiMartino | It's like the 'on the next episode of Lost'. |
| Konietzko | I never watch those. Those creative people spent all that time building the episode so that the story beats happen in a specific order, and then this network person comes on and gives it all away... Seriously, on 24 it's always from like the last 3 minutes of the next show. It's insane to me. So yeah, if there's a movie I want to see and a trailer shows up for it, I cover my ears and close my eyes in the theater. I care about the story. I may have a weird personality with this, but Mike and I had the chance to see Spirited Away premier in the US at the El Capitan and Miyazaki was there and he spoke and answered questions. I didn't have any questions to ask. They were all answered in the film. To me, everything I'm concerned with as an artist, as a viewer, it's in the film. That's not to say it might not lead me to do some research, but that's just how I see it. It's nice to have stuff to look forward to. |
| Moscoe | No doubt. There is A LOT to look forward to in the Avatar: The Last Airbender world. Thank you both again for your time! |
| Interviewer's note | I have some photos of Avatar Central taken from the trip to the Annies which I will sort through and post a few in a few weeks. Keep an eye on ASN News for it! |
Participants[]
Persons interviewed[] |
Persons interviewing[]
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Origin[]
- Robert Moscoe (2007-04-06). An Avatar Spring Break with Mike and Bryan (part 1 of 3). AvatarSpirit.Net (via Web Archive). Retrieved on June 8, 2012.
- Robert Moscoe (2007-04-06). An Avatar Spring Break with Mike and Bryan (part 2 of 3). AvatarSpirit.Net (via Web Archive). Retrieved on June 11, 2012.
- Robert Moscoe (2007-04-06). An Avatar Spring Break with Mike and Bryan (part 3 of 3). AvatarSpirit.Net (via Web Archive). Retrieved on June 8, 2012.