- Howdy, I'm John Hart Asher.

This week on "Central Texas Gardener," we look at the resourceful practices across decades that benefit us now.

Kirk Alston of "The Natural Gardener" explains how we've changed and why.

We also visit John Dromgoole and his wife Jane in their garden, where they bring their work home with them.

Daphne Richards answers your questions, and Sonia Koschoreck shows us how to prep milkweed seeds for successful germination.

So let's get growing right here, right now.

- [Announcer] "Central Texas Gardener" is made possible by generous support from Lisa and Desi Rhoden.

And by Diane Land and Steve Adler.

(upbeat music) - John and Jane Dromgoole, local organic gardening champions and owners of The Natural Gardener Nursery, bring their work home with them.

- [Narrator] John Dromgoole has been spinning tunes and tales on the radio since high school.

Then he turned the mic over to organic gardening as the host of Gardening Naturally on News Radio KOBJ from 1981 to 2019.

- I was in the Organic Gardening Club for a while and was the president for four years.

There were so many little things like that.

Paul Pryor used to invite me on his show on KOBJ.

He was on a program they called Early Risers and they started at 5:00 AM and if Paul wanted to ask a question, 'cause he heard about me, I was there at five.

And so I was able to translate to the public what they wanted to hear and about the reduction of pesticides and that it was much easier to build a healthy soil and then grow your plants nicely.

And then pretty soon, people stopped laughing when I said manure.

They began to understand that I was talking about compost and things.

- [Narrator] An organic gardening trailblazer with long-term roots in Austin's nursery business, in 1983, he purchased eight acres in southwest Austin and opened The Natural Gardener.

He and wife Jane brought the work home with them as they built their house, gardens, and outdoor living retreats.

- It's a lot to know about and it's a lot to learn.

I talk about plants all the time at work and I have the experience of saying, "Well, it does this."

And if it's a dyckia, for example, do not put your finger in because you won't get it back out.

I've learned these little things like that.

And that's what they appreciate.

Somebody who's done it.

- [Narrator] These days, they're supervised by energetic Lobo.

David Stalker, garden advisor and handyman, brings his expertise to every project.

Like many gardeners, John's early passion germinated with houseplant and tropicals like bromeliads.

- [John] That kind of plant is what first got my attention, especially the cryptanthus.

That's crypt, meaning down and deep.

And then anthus, the flower.

- [Narrator] He protects cold sensitive plants in his greenhouse.

It's also where he propagates them and builds cultivation knowledge to teach new plant parents.

The wide plant spectrum fascinates his endless curiosity.

- One of the things I like to do in the greenhouse is mount tillandsias.

Tillandsias are like ball moss that grow on the trees in the southern part of Mexico and other areas down there.

This is one of them, very unusual looking.

These are mounted on posts like they would be in the open areas, maybe out in the forest, and they look really nice.

They're easy to grow and the roots are just for holding on, not necessarily for nutrients.

- [Narrator] To maximize space, a pulley and rope design suspends heavy duty hanging plants and brings them down close for care.

They designed the greenhouse to resemble a comfy cottage.

Even one section of the roof is covered.

Inside, that's where he puts plants that appreciate a sun break.

Lattice inside also breaks up harsh rays.

A country home style porch double duties as work bench space and a shady spot to sit back and sit awhile.

Jane and John carry their outdoor living to a flagstone patio, where inviting furniture beckons downtime.

An eye always to recycle/reuse, clever rustic panels separate the patio from a studio while a gate allows another entrance route.

The path to the house curves along beds documented with plants, containers, and strategically colorful accents.

- Jane and I built the house based on going to Santa Fe and then the Fredericksburg area and then South Texas.

And all of those pieces were put together in the house.

- [Narrator] Jane and John corralled wide spaces with distinct areas that seamlessly flow together.

A cedar arbor leads to a grassy summertime shady nook, bright in early December after leaf fall.

They fashioned a cozy cabana with a bamboo pergola painted in festive crayon colors.

David used water-based acrylic brushed on by hand.

When a woodpecker built its nest inside a supporting post, David had an idea.

- We built the cabana and you see the post coming up.

It was a perfect opportunity.

Well, let's put a birdhouse up there.

And sure enough, they've already found it in just a matter of days.

- [Narrator] They counterpoint wide views with intimate encounters.

A tiny zen garden frames the studio's wall with peaceful design and its water feature, a gleaming rainwater harvesting cistern.

Patio containers invite closeup perusal while dignifying spaces with accenting color and texture.

Plus, they're a good option for seasonal change outs or plants that need winter protection in the greenhouse.

Berms also elevate dimension while improving soil drainage.

In the vegetable garden, fences and cattle panel trellises do more than support blackberries and upcoming grapes.

- It's nice to have the spaces defined.

That's why we put a fence around it.

The the garden, the vegetable garden.

It's a sacred space.

Let's enclose it and define that area.

- That gate stood around here.

I'd put it here, I'd put it there.

It always looked good.

It's an art piece, but never hung it.

And then I said to Dave, "How are we gonna hang this thing here?"

He said, "Here's what we do."

We drilled through the post, we attach it to it, and it'll work fine, except, we didn't have a place to lock it.

I said, "Dave, we have a wrench right here.

Let's dig this wrench into the thing."

And then Dave worked it out.

And so there's that wrench that we use as a place to lock it in.

And it was perfect to keep the dog out because he was going into the garden.

He loved to dig.

And so it was the only way to manage that part.

So he watches through the fence now and we talk through to him but he's not digging in there now.

- [Narrator] They grow vegetables and herbs in raised beds where beneficial insects take care of the pests.

Some are constructed with a wood chip and Portland cement composite for durability.

But good soil is what makes them productive.

- Soil and compost and one of the tricks with doing a raised bed is digging down into the soil that's underneath there, even just a little bit.

There's not much soil there, but there's three or four inches.

And once you dig down into that a little bit and incorporate your new soil in it, that really gives your roots a lot more room to grow.

They'll transition into the old soil.

- Plants grow more vigorously.

They become more drought tolerant, especially with that compost.

It's like a sponge.

If we're trying to save water, that's one of the ways we're doing it besides mulching.

And the plants growing together are a living mulch.

So we kind of group 'em together.

- And with a raised bed, we're not walking on the space.

We're not trampling the soil.

So you can really concentrate the plants in there and grow a lot more in the limited amount of space we have.

- [Narrator] They espalier fruit trees like warren pears.

- When you change the direction of growth on a plant, like the blackberries, like the pears, the apples, the apical dominance, the growth of the hormones that's on the tip right here changes.

And so now there's more fruit on there than there would be if the branches just went straight up.

- [David] And it absorbs the noise too.

Plants absorb more noise than just a wall would.

- Yes.

- [David] Helps cut down on the traffic noise.

- [Narrator] Whatever you're planting, personal touches claim a garden as your own.

An old bedspring bottle tree glimmers on the property's former greenhouse.

John takes a cue from nature's art.

- [John] Yes, I find those things.

You can walk in the creek.

There they are.

- [Narrator] Since he's learned from many others, his goal is to pass along his knowledge to new gardeners, including on "Central Texas Gardener."

- There was a lady that made the changes.

One of my favorite ladies, and that was Lady Bird Johnson.

She did research out by Hornsby Bend.

I used to go out there.

They had these greenhouses and they were trying seeds, they were trying new plants.

And then they had some field testing.

So she's the lady that really made this thing happen.

I love her.

We went to her house one time to have supper, my wife Jane and I, and so we were up there.

She thought I knew a lot about the natives.

We had supper, talked a lot, she had a beautiful place with pictures of Kennedy and all these other folks and gifts from around the world.

And so after supper, we went outside to walk around.

She knew more than I did.

I was embarrassed to be there.

She walked around naming everything and she did, you know, I said, "Oh, that's a Mexican plum."

And she said, "Plants don't know borders."

I said, "Oh, you're right."

- [Narrator] John's roots are also grounded in music and art.

In his studio, he crafts portraits of musicians he's known who inspired another lifelong dimension.

His close connections led him back to the radio microphone with Dance Halls and Last Calls on SUN radio, where at home he auditions selections for upcoming programs.

Embracing many outlets for expression, indoors and out, is John's secret for a balanced life.

- We have our stressful days with traffic and work, and then we come home and it's just nice to be able to decompress and have the beautiful surroundings there.

And that's why the garden is so important.

- You saw how slow the gate was when you were coming in.

That alone brings you down.

You're home and the gate's just opening slowly and now you're ready to come into the yard, and leaving, also, it's the same thing.

Before I get out there, you have a chance to meditate on it and slow down and then get out there.

One of the things that I learned with a friend of mine is the zen of watering.

That darn hose always twists up.

I don't care if they say guaranteed not to twist.

I bring it home that first day and it's got a knot in it and you're frustrated and you're jerking on it and all this stuff.

And the zen of gardening is to say, "Oh."

And you go over there and you untwist it and you go back to watering.

- Just in the past 10 years, we've seen more frequent extreme weather while water resources and wildlife numbers diminish.

On the upside, gardeners have responded by choosing adaptable plants and avoiding pesticides.

Today, Kirk Alston from The Natural Gardener looks at how we're growing better.

How you doing today, Kirk?

- Super, John Hart.

Nice to be here.

- Awesome.

Great to have you back, of course.

We've mentioned a lot of heavy stuff there in the intro, but let me just throw that question to you.

How are we gardening better?

What are some of these strategies that you've seen people employing that really help us deal with some of these challenges?

- Well, one big change that we've noticed over the last couple of decades is that folks don't come in asking for what kind of pesticides they need to correct a problem.

- Ah.

- They're really, you know, trying to focus more on what's going to be a solution that's gonna be helpful that their pets can live with, that their small children can live with, that's not going to destroy the birds and the natural wildlife.

They're more interested in keeping the bees and the butterflies around.

We don't see people wanting to nuke their backyards because they saw a spider.

- And what are some of the strategies just, you know, planting wise as well that are signs that you think that we're making a change for the better?

- Well, there's definitely a trend towards natives, and we're seeing some HOAs and some newer developments that are sending a list of plants that are acceptable and non-acceptable, trying to stay with, you know, deer resistant, drought resistant, heat resistant plants.

And we, of course, have been targeting that audience for a long time.

- Sure.

- But along with that, we're looking for highly adaptive plants.

You know, there's things that are not necessarily native to central Texas that are highly adaptable.

Like for instance, salvia guaranitica is one of my favorite plants to recommend to people.

It likes sun, it likes shade, it's deer resistant, it's drought resistant.

It has great color in a variety of things, in pinks and purples and reds.

But it's from South America.

- Right.

- But we really like it.

- What are some of the top things that people are asking about out at The Natural Gardener in terms of plant recommendations?

I mean, what are some of those trends or the big asks that you're seeing that maybe might not have been so common in the past?

- Some of the big trends that we're seeing are a lot of it for, the city gardener, are for privacy.

- Okay.

- And we're looking for, there's a lot of people that are starting to use their front yards more as entertainment areas, but along with that, they don't necessarily wanna be having a conversation with the street.

- Right.

- And so they're looking for more things that are along the front sidewalk to give them a little bit of barrier, but they can't have huge, you know, eight foot wide shrubs.

So they're looking for something a little bit more narrow, a little bit more tapered.

Sometimes using a fence and a trellis.

- Okay.

- With some kind of vine can help to give that barrier without using too much square footage.

We're also looking for a lot of people who are looking for low water use, ground covers that are replacing grasses or lawns, native grasses that are giving some movement to the landscape.

Certainly people are looking for butterfly gardens and things to attract pollinators.

People are still looking for color, but they don't necessarily need to have a bed full of pansies, although we sell a lot of pansies.

- Sure, sure.

- But to have some things that are more in the perennial realm or even using herbs or edibles in the landscape to give that color and to give that moment of drama that they're looking for.

- But you're saying if you were to sort of take the pulse and look at the past where, the front sort of was just a non-used space or was just highly visualized but not really looked at as an important key element that actually adds function to the landscape.

- Right, I mean, in the past, I mean, you think about what the lawns were like in the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, it was a lawn and boxwoods- - Right.

- And bedding plants.

- Right.

- And to see something like that now is really out of place.

And a lot of the people who are buying older homes and renovating them, you're seeing more of a style going towards, you know, more of like a California type landscape.

And I don't know if it's Californians bringing that aesthetic with them, but there is, it's not like Phoenix Zurich or Palm Springs or something.

It's more of a .

.

.

A more linear way of landscaping using natives, using grasses, using more Zurich type plants, yuccas, agaves, barrel cactus, in just a more modern way.

- Okay, well two things.

So one, you had mentioned earlier about, you know, people are coming in and they're not asking or not even being familiar with pesticides.

And to me, that seems to suggest that, pair that with a use of natives or the more of the desire to use that, is to start, that the people are understanding that their yards aren't just for people too.

- Right, well it's, you know, natives and not using pesticides, it's like one hand washes the other.

Right?

- Right.

- They're really symbiotic relationships that we have there and using the, you know, most, I won't say most, but there's so many plants that are host plants for those butterflies or bees or things that we're looking for to have the, you know, that natural landscape that we're looking for.

- Right, and also, you know, I think that's the big paradigm shift before, I mean, paradigm shift away from the old school of thought about gardening was, if you had things eating plants, you were freaking out.

Right, but here, if they're eating the plants, then that actually says, "I've got successful habitat going on," right?

That's not necessarily occurring to the detriment of the plant.

It's something that that plant's evolved with.

- [Kirk] You know, I think a passion flower, or a passion vine is a great example.

- [John] Great example.

- 10 years ago, if we sold a passion vine that had caterpillars on it, people would freak out.

Now, they want the one that has a caterpillar on it because they know that that's probably a gulf fritillary.

- Right.

- That's going to turn into a butterfly and they will be buying a new habitat.

- We'd mentioned earlier that there are these big challenges.

So you'd mentioned golden barrel cactus and a lot of people wanted to shift towards Zurich because they thought, "Okay, hot and dry.

I got it, I got the message.

I can't water my yard every single day for an hour.

I'm gonna go towards Zurich."

But having said that, then we've got these crazy freezes that have come in and really waylaid some of those species.

That's why I love coming out with Natural Gardeners.

You look at this diverse landscape, whether that's in terms of species diversity or variety of diversity, or just planting typology.

That really suggests and provides us with a path forward to deal with these rapidly changing conditions.

So Kirk, thank you so much for coming out.

It's always a pleasure to have you on and speak with you and you share with us your abundant knowledge.

- Thank you, John Hart.

- All right, well next, let's check in with Daphne Richards.

(upbeat music) - In containers or garden beds, it's so much fun to bring wildlife up close.

Nick Martin snapped this adorable picture that he described as "a bee taking a nap in coneflowers."

When most of his coneflowers didn't make it last winter, he planted natives that he hadn't grown before.

He's got salvia greggii, Mexican hat, blackfoot daisies, bee balm, and so many more!

He told us, "It's amazing how much you can pack into a small space."

From east Manor near Elgin, Geri DiVita's really committed to planting more for wildlife.

She sent us beautiful pictures of graceful giant swallowtails on her butterfly bush, one of many plants in the genus Buddleia, all of which are great for attracting butterflies to your yard!

George Willis from New Braunfels sent us this charming photo of a daylily that he grows in a container.

Daylilies attract butterflies, bees, and hummingbirds.

We can eat the petals, too, as long as we haven't contaminated them with pesticides or spray from herbicides.

Robert Gonzalez and John Zeig from Hearne border a fence with cheery yellow daylilies, enticing birds and other critters to stop for a drink.

Daylilies should be divided every three to five years, and early fall is a great time to do it.

We'd love to hear from you!

Click on CentralTexasGardener.org to send us your questions, pictures, and videos!

- Next, fall's a great time to start milkweed plants from seed.

Sonia Koschoreck from The Monarch Sanctuary Project shows how to scarify and stratify for successful germination.

(upbeat music) - Hi, there we are here with the Monarch Sanctuary Project and our mascot Lexy, short for Danaus Plexippus, which is Latin for monarch caterpillar.

We are here today to teach you a little bit about germinating Texas native milkweeds.

Those monarchs, no matter which way you cut it, whether they're going north or south, they have to come through the Texas funnel is what we call it.

So I feel like, as Texans, it is our responsibility to offer those monarchs what they need to finish their migration.

Whether that be native milkweeds, nectars, sun, shelter, no pesticides.

When we think about germinating milkweeds, we think about what happens naturally in nature.

Right, Lexi?

(laughs) So when the seed pods open up, the seeds fall to the ground and they're exposed to rains, winds, colder temps, animals stomping on them.

And these natural processes are basically what we consider scarification and cold stratification.

In order to germinate our milkweed seedlings, here are the materials you'll need to get started.

Today, we're gonna use a green milkweed, common name green milkweed, Latin name Asclepius viridis.

Now green milkweed specifically does require a scarification process, which as we mentioned, is like when animals will stomp on the seeds to break down the outer casing of the seed.

So I'm gonna show you how to scarify your seeds.

So we're gonna go ahead and take a jar of a little bit of sand.

And I have already included the green milkweed seeds in this jar, and these have already been pre shaken, so I'm not gonna go for like a rockstar workout here.

But all the seeds are shaken up.

From here, you'll go ahead and pour your seeds into a strainer over a container to catch the seeds.

Shake it out, sift it out, and all you're left with is the seeds.

We're gonna wanna soak our milkweed seeds for six to eight hours all the way up to overnight.

The rest of the materials for the cold stratification are equal parts Perlite and Vermiculite.

Perlite will help with the aeration.

Vermiculite is gonna help a little bit with maintaining the moisture.

So we take a a Ziploc baggie, make sure it's got a nice little zip on it.

And also make sure you label the baggie with what species of milkweed you're using and what date you started your process.

We are going to cold stratify our seeds in the refrigerator for four to six weeks.

We're gonna go ahead and pour our equal parts in Perlite, voila.

Vermiculite.

Voila.

And then we will add our pre-soaked seeds into the mix.

We're gonna want the mixture to be moist but not soggy.

So what we'll do is we'll add a little bit of water in there.

We'll kind of smoosh it around in there.

And then we'll take a look at the corners and see if there's water pooling in the corners of our baggies.

And then you're gonna throw this mixture into the refrigerator for four to six weeks.

In order for these seeds to germinate, they're gonna need to be between 65 and 80 degrees under bright indirect light.

We use grow lights.

We also use a seedling heat mat.

This is a 10 by 20 seedling heat mat.

Pretty soon, you'll start seeing germination from the seeds.

So the little roots will come out of one end of the seed.

I like to use a clear shallow container, so that I can see what's happening with the root development on the side.

And my germination container has ventilation holes.

You can just poke holes into a container, if you don't have one with a fancy little knob here.

On the bottom I have placed a layer of well draining soil mixture.

And then we also put a handful of mycorrhizal powder in there.

Mycorrhizal powder is a type of fungi that helps develop a connection, like a wheeler and dealer of nutrients, with the milkweed taproot systems.

Then we're going to spread out our four-to-six week refrigerated cold stratification scarified mixture.

We'll finish this off with a light dusting of the same germination mixture, just enough to cover the seeds.

Once you start to see the first leaves pop out, those aren't actually your true leaves.

You're gonna wait for the second set of leaves to come out, and that's what we call our true leaves.

Once your true leaves have developed, get your four inch pot container ready to go.

I like to use a chopstick for my transplanting.

So what I do is I put a nice hole in my four-inch pot and then once my seedling is ready, I will lift delicately the root systems out and gently transplant it into the four-inch pot.

Cover those little root babies up and these plants will be ready to transplant in the spring or fall.

- Go beyond the show with us.

Follow our producer Linda on Instagram, where she shares even more CTG content, including glimpses into her own gardening projects.

Be sure to check out CentralTexasGardener.org where you can get tips, show highlights, and sign up for our newsletter.

Until next time, adopt the pace of nature.

Her secret is patience.

(bright upbeat music) - [Announcer] "Central Texas Gardener" is made possible by generous support from Lisa and Desi Rhoden.

And by Diane Land and Steve Adler.

(bright music)