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HIP 139: Phase out CBRS #1128

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hiptron opened this issue Nov 14, 2024 · 3 comments
Open

HIP 139: Phase out CBRS #1128

hiptron opened this issue Nov 14, 2024 · 3 comments
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discussion economic Economic HIP MOBILE technical Technical HIPs updates edits/updates to an existing HIP

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@hiptron
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hiptron commented Nov 14, 2024

HIP 139: Phase out CBRS

  • Author: @zer0tweets
  • Start Date: 2024-11-14
  • Category: Technical, Economic
  • Original HIP PR: #1127
  • Tracking Issue: #1128
  • Voting Requirements: veMOBILE Holders

Summary

This proposal establishes a schedule to permanently end rewards for CBRS radios on the Helium Network. If this proposal passes, Nova Labs will assist CBRS owners with the transition by re-flashing their CBRS equipment to stock firmware (turning it into generic CBRS equipment) and offering free Wi-Fi Hotspots to affected Hotspot operators.

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https://github.com/helium/HIP/blob/main/0139-phase-out-cbrs.md

@waveform06 waveform06 added discussion updates edits/updates to an existing HIP technical Technical HIPs economic Economic HIP MOBILE labels Nov 14, 2024
@cwildermuth
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Try to keep my comments short and to the point here:

Losing CBRS would suck.
I understand the issues/technical challenges and why this is proposed.
CBRS/WiFi/Mobile IMHO never should have been part of the Helium IOT network to begin with. They're totally different, with different economics, partners, focuses, etc.

Thoughts:
Why completely abandon CBRS? If the infrastructure is there, the work is done, Radio holders are paying SAS fees, etc. Is there not a way to just take CBRS rewards to 0 and leave infrastructure in place, for the future? What happens if technical challenges are overcome in 6, 12, 18 months? Pivot again? Why not just be prepared?
Personally not looking forward to climbing and collecting gear...and would probably not even bother if this came back in the future since it seems relatively obvious that things are/can change on such short notice.

Bigger issue... Why disable the FreedomFi miners entirely? Can they not just have CBRS functions disabled and/or converted into basic 900MHz miners?
Point being... If my CBRS is killed off, and my 900MHz FreedomFi miners are killed off, then in one fell swoop this HIP completely burns tens of thousands of dollars worth of investment. I dont think I would be back, I think I would be done. I dont think I would buy miners to replace them.
In fact, in many many places I put FreedomFi miners and have no CBRS connected because I either wasn't ready, or I wanted the option to in the future, or I may want to use the miner and use it in the future somewhere else. I purposely bought FreedomFi miners for the ability to use them in any/both/all ways that I could, whenever it suited me.

This HIP makes my entire investment in Helium worth $0.

@waveform06
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From the discussions on discord

Why completely abandon CBRS? If the infrastructure is there, the work is done.
The ongoing support and infrastructure costs are less than the income.

What happens if technical challenges are overcome in 6, 12, 18 months?
It does not appear to be on Apple or Google/Androids roadmaps to fix this in this period.

Why disable the FreedomFi miners entirely?
They are not disabled entirely - they still will work as US915 IOT hotspots if you do not deploy the new firmware.

I purposely bought FreedomFi miners for the ability to use them in any/both/all ways that I could, whenever it suited me.
And that is why there is the option to deploy new firmware and do that.

This HIP makes my entire investment in Helium worth $0.
Have you seen the "trade in" for Wi-Fi devices? You get to keep what you "trade in"

@cwildermuth
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Why disable the FreedomFi miners entirely? They are not disabled entirely - they still will work as US915 IOT hotspots if you do not deploy the new firmware.

 It says "FreedomFi gateways will continue to function as IoT gateways until January 1st, 2026" so basically for 1 year.  Then I assume replacement gateways will need to be purchased.   It does say "After January 1st, 2026, gateways will still remain online and continue to receive rewards, but no new firmware updates will be issued"... So, One can infer that they will continue to work after January 1st 2026 (even those those things seem to contradict one another)... but given that there will be no new firmware updates, they will almost certainly stop working at some point in the future...or not receive updates that may be beneficial from other HIPs, since they will not be receiving firmware updates.  

I purposely bought FreedomFi miners for the ability to use them in any/both/all ways that I could, whenever it suited me. And that is why there is the option to deploy new firmware and do that.

 I sort of meant that I could install a FF gateway as US915 miner, and then add CBRS later.   Since these are no longer supported after 1/1/26, I will have no supported US915 miners, making the hardware basically useless.    I spent more for the option of buying the FF miner even though I didn't need CBRS in every area since I had the flexibility of using them for both.   So my FF Gateway miners with only a US915 antenna on them, also are obsolete.  
 
 So, in ~1 year, my entire Helium fleet is EOL and no longer supported.   
 
 Point being, I'm not sure why the FF Gateways cant just be "fixed" to be plain US915 miners that are supported ongoing.  

This HIP makes my entire investment in Helium worth $0. Have you seen the "trade in" for Wi-Fi devices? You get to keep what you "trade in"

   Unfortunately WiFi doesnt make sense for us.  Our areas are very rural.   We already provide Internet services from these same locations with unlicensed or lightly licensed frequencies (some even over CBRS).   With the inherent range issue over 5GHz (without using specialized antennas and radios) it's not likely that we would have any benefit whatsoever in putting up the WiFi devices.   I don't think someone 1 or 2 miles away is going to connect to a Helium WiFi hotspot with their phone, given distance, noise, and interference.   

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