W3C

– DRAFT –
AGWG-2024-07-09

09 July 2024

Attendees

Present
alastairc, avon, Azlan, Ben_Tillyer, bruce_bailey, Chuck, Detlev, filippo-zorzi, Francis_Storr, Frankie, giacomo-petri, Glenda, GN015, JakeAbma, Jen_G, Jennie_Delisi, JenStrickland, jtoles, julierawe, Kimberly, Laura_Carlson, ljoakley, Makoto, maryjom, mbgower, MJ, Poornima, ShaneDittmar, TheoHale, wendyreid
Regrets
Todd Libby
Chair
Chuck
Scribe
Francis_Storr

Meeting minutes

<Chuck> testing pasting

<Chuck> Adjust Color: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bwr8ciRGP5W4zvzBQtJObxaUYRxsR5OrpYYpuK4rDyE/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

<Chuck> Haptic Stimulation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U5DbLdJIyuIJLdLMhn1F_A0NT_D_qe4MO49F_fJ_fEA/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

<Chuck> Implied Meaning: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P7fOyEPVlqf1aXuJY0SO9LeC-E7EZllg/edit#heading=h.gjdgxs

<Chuck> Keyboard Only: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uE2WCxPmvNopdCbuZQm_-cGyEdxEouRmZ8UUIlyutoU/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

<Chuck> Section Labels: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rHL0Zx4tpNRMztUFXURKn1He74mjRMeDaf330a01FYs/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

alastairc: reminder to get early bird TPAC tickets

Subgroup meeting Kickoff

Chuck: thanks to everyone who signed up for a subgroup

Chuck: for the next 4 meetings, this is the work we'll be doing. For the next 3 meetings, it'll be 1 hour for subgroup, 1 hour for WCAG 2

Chuck: it would be good to stay in the same subgroup over the next 4 weeks

<Chuck> Adjust Color: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bwr8ciRGP5W4zvzBQtJObxaUYRxsR5OrpYYpuK4rDyE/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

<Chuck> Haptic Stimulation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U5DbLdJIyuIJLdLMhn1F_A0NT_D_qe4MO49F_fJ_fEA/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

<Chuck> Implied Meaning: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P7fOyEPVlqf1aXuJY0SO9LeC-E7EZllg/edit#heading=h.gjdgxs

<Chuck> Keyboard Only: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uE2WCxPmvNopdCbuZQm_-cGyEdxEouRmZ8UUIlyutoU/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

<Chuck> Section Labels: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rHL0Zx4tpNRMztUFXURKn1He74mjRMeDaf330a01FYs/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

Chuck: each subgroup has a document to work out of

Chuck: at the bottom of each document is a space for meeting notes. please use that if needed.

Chuck: subgroup leads - please document the subgroup members who contribute to the meetings

Chuck: we're looking for async participation opportunities - if you have any ideas on what these could be, please let us know.

<mbgower> Is Adjust Color the same as Non-text Contrast? That's what it links to

<Jennie_Delisi> * Thank you for providing options for participating asynchronously!

<alastairc> Yes, adjust colour is part of non-text colour contrast

GN confused about whether adjust color is also non-text contrast

avon: can you share the voice interaction document

<Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to answer avon

alastairc both the text contrast and non-text contrast giving users the ability to change the color scheme is something we're looking at

<avon> sounds good Rachael

Rachael voice interaction is a step behind where we are at the moment. Once we have voice interaction set up and ready to work on, you can move to that but in the meantime pick one of the groups we've listed today.

Rachael Each group has its own scratchpad.
… if there are inter-related outcomes, they'll be listed in the document.
… any scratchpads that have background information are also listed
… you'll be filling out the highlighted areas
… please fill out the meeting minutes

ljoakley are we using just this time for the subgroup work and not the times we were asked to pick in the survey?

Chuck for the next 3 weeks, we're using the AGWG time, then after that it'll change to the picked times

Ben_Tillyer contact email address is for Michael Cooper, should that be removed?

Rachael Yes, I'll work on that. Thanks

Rachael we encourage you to continue to engage asynchronously with the subgroup if you can't make the meeting times.

Chuck I'll close the rooms 30 minutes before the end for us to come back and talk about how it went, etc.

WOO!

<giacomo-petri> Section Labels Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rHL0Zx4tpNRMztUFXURKn1He74mjRMeDaf330a01FYs/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

<Chuck> Keyboard Only: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uE2WCxPmvNopdCbuZQm_-cGyEdxEouRmZ8UUIlyutoU/edit#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti

alastairc we made a good start. we have an outcome we've redefined
… we gathered user needs and made a start on the decision tree
… we set an async task to find examples
… I think we're pretty comfortable moving forward

mbgower we had a really amazing group. we also tweaked our outcomes
… we want to make sure that the haptic stimulation went both ways: feedback and input.
… we defined some user needs
… there was generally a feeling that each of the user needs could be a method
… just as we were finishing we had a discussion on exactly what haptics is.

<alastairc> Isn't haptic touch output?

<alastairc> Sorry, isn't haptic "touch output"?

Rachael is this meant to be input and output or just output?

mbgower overall there's a lot more examples of feedback than input. there are a lot of examples of games that need manipulation of a device.

Glenda in addition to shake, if you fall really hard with an apple watch on, that's haptic input

<alastairc> Ah, yes, looking up "haptic" is more general than I had assumed. But I think "haptic stimulation" would be output based rather than input.

Ben_Tillyer to me, that isn't. if we were talking about audio input, I wouldn't group sound coming out of the speaker in the same category. To me, haptic is output not input.

Rachael We have, in a first pass, come up with a set out outputs. We need to decide whether to focus on inputs, outputs, or both. It's hard to work in ambiguity, but it's an important part of the process.

<alastairc> I thought the original requirement was not over-doing haptic "feedback", as that's the problem for some people with cognitive issues or on the spectrum.

<Zakim> mbgower, you wanted to say we do not need to resolve now. We just need to be aware of a need to resolve this.

TheoHale another example of haptic feedback is force feedback in steering wheels

<JenStrickland> I do think that Glenda's point, that a fall that is recorded in a device is haptic feedback, input.

<Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to move us to other teams

mbgower we don't have to resolve this now. it makes sense to me to work in this holistically. I thought this was a really great experience.

<bruce_bailey> tapping back of phone is haptic input

<jtoles> Didn't think about the new pinch input with the Apple Watch

julierawe we had a good conversation about implied meaning and figurative language
… we currently only have one user need
… we also talked about what to do
… we spent the bulk of our time talking about a decision tree, including "is the content a work of art?"
… we're going to have to get into localization
… we talked about word play and alliteration

<Ben_Tillyer> If you think that's haptic feedback, isn't EVERY mouse/pointer/keyboard/stylus input "haptic"?

<Ben_Tillyer> GN was talking about "Back Touch" - https://support.apple.com/en-gb/111772

<Ben_Tillyer> Back Tap *

<Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on starting off a decision tree

alastairc: I thought Mike's group had a good approach by starting out listing methods
… and then construct the decision tree from those

bruce_bailey I want to thank the people in the subgroup
… next time we meet, we'll look at platform commands
… theo volunteered to work on a decision tree
… we looked at the page with 25 user needs and many of them fit into multiple categrories

giacomo-petri Section labels subgroup. Our first step was to make sure content had a meaningful structure.
… we had some concern about the word "meaningful". We need to work a bit on this.
… we started crafting examples, which is also the work for the next meeting

Chuck we will meet again next week to spend an hour working in subgroups.

alastairc for Bruce's group - it might be better to tackle one outcome at a time.

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

All speakers: alastairc, avon, Chuck

Active on IRC: alastairc, avon, Azlan, Ben_Tillyer, bruce_bailey, Chuck, Detlev, filippo-zorzi, Francis_Storr, Frankie, giacomo-petri, Glenda, GN015, JakeAbma, Jen_G, Jennie_Delisi, JenStrickland, jtoles, julierawe, Kimberly, laura, ljoakley, Makoto, maryjom, mbgower, MJ, Poornima, Rachael, ShaneDittmar, TheoHale, wendyreid