See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 07 October 2014
<Joshue> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 07 October 2014
<Joshue> Chair: AWK
<AWK> everything is set
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
<AWK> Scribe: Marc
<marcjohlic> scribe: marcjohlic
<Joshue> scribe list updated
AWK: Shawn sent announcement to
gl list that new survey is out
... 53 responses so far - not overwhelming, but useful
collection
<AWK> Survey link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xqB54kJ7PfH8g2BWp3ww7HpXXcLhySSfE0aW1Re2gcU/viewform?usp=send_form
AWK: Please encourage folks to provide feedback on survey
AWK: If you have not registered,
and will be attending, pls register ASAP
... Helps the W3C planners to get the registrations in
MC: Need to sort out travel
logistics for Sunday meeting
... Location, travel arrangements etc
<AWK> Sunday meeting is at Google
LG: Meeting will be in
Googleplex
... Believe it's about 15 mins from TPAC location to Google
<Loretta> Christophe, there are about 25 Google buildings in this area!
<Joshue> MJ: Isn't today the last day before the fee increase?
<AWK> registration form: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/
AWK: Fee increase after Oct 8
<Loretta> The address is 2375 Garcia Ave, Mountain View, CA 94043
WCAG folks currently registeted: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/registrants#WCAG
<jon_avila> Survey wasn't opened yet when I tried last week.
<Joshue> no]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
LG: Very similar examples
<Joshue> +q
MC: Different enough to keep them separate, but not horrible to combine them. There should be a clear benefit to any edits - not confident that there is strong enough reason to change this one.
JOC: There is no alt on Ex 2 - is
that part of the Failure?
... Just want to call out the missing alt
AWK: No objection to combining them - other question would be if we have people doing localization work will something like this be worth their effort (or how often that happens)
<jon_avila> Don't have strong feelings either
<Joshue> +1 to leaving it as is
JOC: OK with leaving it as is - can't see the net gain in changing it
AWK: Anyone feel strongly that it should be removed?
<adam_solomon_> having major internet connection problems - will try to get online for lc-2954
no response
JOC: Will write / update the response
+1
RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended (rejecting the suggested change)
AWK: Sounds like folks generally like the gist of these changes
LG: Some grammatical changes
<jon_avila> We chose webinar because we thought people could relate to it.
<Joshue> LC-2953 response updated.
AWK: Initially this started out as a live event that you are at personally and that the captioning was being provided to your own mobile device. Was changed to webinar where folks could join webinar to receive captions
MC: Not clear how mobile device
vs desktop device is different in here
... Believe my rewording covers that
AWK: WCAG doesn't apply to a physical event but does apply to an online event
<AWK> original: A live conference is streaming audio-video webinar for remote participants using Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART) to provide users who are Deaf or hard of hearing with speech to text translation services that can be accessed on a mobile device (this also helps on-site participants needing captioning).
KW: The whole idea of adding some mobile stuff to general is so that we are not desktop specific w/ our General techniques - but mobile also. So we are trying to add some mobile specific examples in
<AWK> A live conference is streaming audio and video for remote participants and is using Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART) to provide users who are Deaf or hard of hearing with speech to text translation services that can be accessed on a mobile device (this also helps on-site participants needing captioning).
MC: Don't object to that - but feels weird to have the mobile example be parenthetical - may need to weave the mobile focused example(s) in better
<Joshue> Interesting comment michael
MC: OK - I didn't get from the wording that getting the captions through their mobile device was helpful
KW: They might be streaming the online conference / webinar to their mobile device. We're not saying they are using desktop and mobile device at the same time
JN: Why wouldn't the captions be
part of that same stream?
... I struggle to see how it's specific to mobile
KW: It was just an example to
show that this is something that can be done on mobile
... We do have a lot of specific things that reference
"desktop"
<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say that we do need to expand the reach of our techniques where possible to illustrate that they are useful and relevant in the mobile space
<AWK> A live conference is streaming audio and video for remote participants and is including captions via use of Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART). Users can access the content on a desktop or mobile device, and this also helps on-site participants needing captioning who can view the captions for the event on their own device.
JOC: We need to find the right tone - generic enough w/ descriptions of technologies
<Joshue> Should we be mentioning desktop at all?
AWK: Some people who caption
online event they don't think about mobile devices - so with
this change it's providing small bit of education to folks that
captioning on mobile is important also
... Does this change help?
MC: Not trying to block moving forward - but think it's a matter of clarity of what we're trying to say.. not sure of better wording
<AWK> A live conference is streaming audio and video for remote participants and is including captions via use of Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART). Users can access the content on a desktop or mobile device. An additional benefit is that this can also help on-site participants needing captioning who can view the captions for the event on their own device.
JN: Split last sentence
"additional benefit
... ONly see 2 references to "desktop" when searching
KW: But there are desktop specific references throughout - such as "corner of the screen"
<Loretta> brb
<Joshue> How about "Users can access the content on any device including mobile devices,[..]
<jon_avila> "desktop" also appears in the Understanding documents http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-visual-presentation.html
<AWK> how about: A live conference is streaming audio and video for remote participants and is including captions via use of Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART). An additional benefit is that this can also help on-site participants needing captioning who can view the captions for the event on their own device.
DM: If we specifically call out mobile now - in 3 or 4 years it might seem out of place
<jamesn> +1
<Joshue> +1 to AWKS text but I'd like to tease out this issue a little more so we have can have some WG consensus on the approach.
JOC: Comfortable with using
language like AWK added - using "devices"
... Don't feel like you can't use "mobile" but like using
generic terms to avoid dating the material
<AWK> A user watches an online seminar on their mobile device, including captioning provided by the provider through the use of Communication Access Real-time Translation (CART).
<Joshue> +1 to the later
AWK: Folks like user-centric or event focused - or leave open?
<Kathy> later one
<Joshue> MJ: I like the later one also
MC: Last one is fine
JOC: Want to make sure my comments don't confuse the issue going forward
<AWK> A user watches an online seminar on their mobile device, including captioning provided through the use of Communication Access Real-time Translation (CART). The captions provided also benefit in-person participants who need captioning and can view the information on their own device.
KW: Different than initial direction - these should just be small changes - want to make sure they don't all cause this much need for discussion
JA: Regarding user-based example, have a concern because this technique is about creating captions - not how the user consumes them.
AWK: Good point
RESOLUTION: Leave open - discuss language
AWK: I put together an alternative approach - put it in a wiki page
<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/F68_edits
DM: Do we need to say anything about placeholder text - or opens another can of worms
AWK: another can of worms - but we will need to talk about that another time
JN: Visible text needs to match associated label - but I don't see that in here
AWK: Correct - and that is why it is not a 1.3.1 technique
JA: Concerned that we don't have a Failure for form fields and visual labels - so we may need to add another failure
JN: Hard failure to write
JA: Not against this change - makes it more clear - but think we should consider additional techniques
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/input.html
AWK: Do people like the general idea of this - paired w/ an add'l 1.3.1 technique to be written?
+1
<AWK> ACTION: AWK to edit https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/F68_edits based on comments from today's call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-283 - Edit https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/techniques/f68_edits based on comments from today's call [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-10-14].
RESOLUTION: Leave open pending Action-283
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G21
KW: Notes on WCAG sections (wiki page) is old - just refer to the Proposed changes
MC: That's fine - wasn't clear
when initially looking at what was in the wiki
... Good with changes
RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G78
KW: Again notes were just for TF reference - changes are under "Proposed" section(s)
JOC: Any objections to Loretta's suggestion to make it clear that this is about controls in the content
<Kathy> 1.Check that the audio track that includes audio descriptions can be turned on by using a control within the content itself or by selecting a preference (such as a button to toggle audio description) in the media player @@or operating system@@.
<Joshue> what about "accessible via using a control within the content itself"?
<Joshue> "can be accessed [...]"
<Loretta> Check that a mechansim exists to turn on the audio track that includes audio descriptions.
RESOLUTION: Leave open
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Shaun/Shawn/ Succeeded: s/AWK: Don't/MC: Don't/ Succeeded: s/then/than/ Found Scribe: Marc Found Scribe: marcjohlic Inferring ScribeNick: marcjohlic Scribes: Marc, marcjohlic Default Present: AWK, Joshue, adam_solomon, Marc_Johlic, +1.571.389.aaaa, cstrobbe, Michael_Cooper, Kathy_Wahlbin, jon_avila, Brent_Shiver, David_MacDonald, Loretta, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen Present: AWK Joshue adam_solomon Marc_Johlic +1.571.389.aaaa cstrobbe Michael_Cooper Kathy_Wahlbin jon_avila Brent_Shiver David_MacDonald Loretta [IPcaller] James_Nurthen Regrets: Bruce_Bailey Mike_Elledge Found Date: 07 Oct 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html People with action items: awk WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]