<AWK> +JF

<Detlev> scribe:Detlev

Implementation testing https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/

<AWK> Please sign up for a scribing date: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List#2018_Scribe_History

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/scorecard

alastairc: Implenentations- progress was made at CSUN

<Joshue108> good work e'one and glad to see the scorecard looking healthier :-)

alastairc: short of 2 full websites AA
... We need 8 at AA, have 6 )this week)

AWK: on second table, 5th column tells us we need 10 evals and we just have one

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations

AWK: fully insufficient - we need to get sites from implementation table (listing 8 sites total) and evaluate these
... We need to get commitments to do evaluatons
... can we split reviews?

MichaelC: no

AWK: there are interdependencies so splitting may be difficult for that reason

<marcjohlic> I'll review Deque University

<Joshue108> +1 to getting commitments

alastairc: we need to distribute to make sure not all do the same

<alastairc> Alastair - CanAdapt Solutions Web Site

alastairc: will take can adapt

David: please wait for 2 days...

<laura> I’’ll do Nomensa.

Update for nomensa.com is rolled out today so can be evaluated

<AWK> Nomensa: Laura and Mike Gower

Laura takes Nomensa

<AWK> Can Adapt: Alastair and Detlev

Detlev: can check canadapt

<alastairc> https://a11ywins.tumblr.com/

AWK: will do allywins

<AWK> A11yWins: AWK and David

<Glenda> I’m doing round one on dqu (done), a11yrules (in process), knowbility (in process)

David will also do allywins

<AWK> A11yRules: Glenda

Glenda: not useful to evaluate allyrules by a second evaluation right now

AWK: When? (Little time)

Glenda: in about 2 night's time

MichaelC: a couple of SCs missing of some evaluations
... possibly Deque Univ

Mark volunteered for Deque University

<AWK> Lainey Feingold Legal: AWK and <crickets>

alastairc: Greg will do knowability very soon

<Greg> I can do Knowbility.org once I get the go ahead.

AWK: Anyone wants to do Lainey Feingold site at AAA?
... there are still failures but fixes are coming

<alastairc> NYC Mayor's Office of the CTO

alastairc: nyc mayors office - one evaluation has been done, some issues found, passed on to John Kirkwood
... Another evaluation - not useful right now

AWK: not likely to see quick fixes

<Glenda> http://www1.nyc.gov

John might have another site he can provide

Glenda: best bet is office of the mayor

<Glenda> I think Kirkwood was recommending going with http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/i

<Glenda> I mean this: http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/

alastairc: Will try to contact John

AWK: can another one review the Lainey Feingold site?

David: By when?

AWK: This week
... we should see progress by Thursday

<AWK> David may be able to review Lainey's site

David: Put me down as a back-up

alastairc: Will have time on Friday to do last minute stuff if necessary
... Any other sites at the AAA level?

AWK: Some PDF documents > 5pages
... Some ePub docs
... If anyone can review these

alastairc: Links?

AWK: not yet - will be put into implementation page
... If someone wants to review them, he/she would get them initially as email
... volunteers?

<Kathy> I can do one

alastairc: Can also do one

AWK: 5 1/2 pages :)

<Glenda> If someone starts on A11YRules…make note of issues that Nic is in the process of fixing. Scroll down to see my notes here: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluation_results_site_summary?implementation_id=165

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/scorecard

alastairc: individual evals: we are low on some - identify purpose needs another one?

JF: We have two, including AAA

<JF> http://accessibility.athena-ict.com/personlization.shtml

<JF> https://a11y-resources.com/developer/adaptable-ui-personalisation

JF: there is a test page

AWK: No one has evaluated that yet

JF: Wee did, maybe a problem with reporting

AWK: John can you check if it shows up in one of your evals?

JF: Problems - still a bit pf a proof of concept - working, but working using no-standard code

<Joshue108> http://accessibility.athena-ict.com/personlization.shtml

<Joshue108> This page works in Chrome https://rawgit.com/orish88/AUI_Personalization/master/html/Athena-TestSite/Accessibility%202.0%20at%20Athena%20ICT.html

AW: discussed that with Josh - if you use a11y- in terms of implementations, for alt text there has to be something that can voice the text

<Glenda> 3 forms on DQU already using autocomplete 1) https://dequeuniversity.com/login/ 2) https://dequeuniversity.com/contact/ and https://dequeuniversity.com/scholarships/apply (and I’m using the extension that adds the icons for this metadata)

<Joshue108> With the Chrome plug in used here https://rawgit.com/orish88/AUI_Personalization/master/version_files/version_zips/chrome_extension_popup.zip

AWK: What is needed form end user perspective is having a user stylesheet that can do something useful with that info
... Do we feel that its s enough to demonstrate implementability?

<Joshue108> +1 to this demonstrating implementability

JF: Not alt text needed for voicing - that is another SC so it does not need to be met here
... Shows possibilities - minimally meeting technical requirement

AWK: Needs SC text but question mark on accessibility support

Glenda: Got 4 forms

JF: That was for another SC
... Hidden fields will be announced to address the hidden form fields security concern
... no sites in the wild using it - just 2 proof of concepts

AWK: This is what Lainey's site would need to implement - so what can we tell her
... She meets autocomplete
... When info is not in the DOM plus some browser extension making use of aui attributes 1.3.5 will be dead

MichaelC: The extension and support demonstrates implementability that should be enough for AAA

<Joshue108> +1

alastairc: stylish or other extensions could use that

MichaelC: There is diversity of implementations which shows viability

JF: Concern is that ui components is ok, but icons is not there yet

JS: There are techniques to address the requirement but no tool that supports it

alastairc: So why are icons part of that list

JF: original proposal b< a11y TF

<Joshue108> It could be because this SC allows the swapping out of existing icons to a user defined set - that a COGA user needs.

JF: As long as screen reader announces it, it should demonstrate programmatic determinability

<alastairc> Ah - thanks Josh

JF: hard to nail down a particular implementations

<Joshue108> np

alastairc: We need something that demonstrates that

JF: exists on the example site..

<JF> Get the plugin here: http://accessibility.athena-ict.com/personlization.shtml

<Joshue108> https://rawgit.com/orish88/AUI_Personalization/master/html/Athena-TestSite/Accessibility%202.0%20at%20Athena%20ICT.html

<JF> https://rawgit.com/orish88/AUI_Personalization/master/html/Athena-TestSite/Accessibility%202.0%20at%20Athena%20ICT.html

alastairc: Once you (JF) and chuck have evaluated that we should be good

<Joshue108> Only works in Chrome detlev

JF: The you turn on the plugin you can change the menu - modal popup

<KimD> *sorry, have to drop off

JF: Customizing interface, link types

alastairc: Missing in the list of evaluations

It is there - you need to download the extension first so the link is to that intro page

alastairc: Doesn't come through on score card

JF: Will follow up with Chuck
... Was discussed at CSUN that minimum bar is met

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluation_results_site_summary#implementation_142

MichaelC: Doesn't see the second site

AWK: Only one shows up
... Maybe a problem during evaluation, recording

JF: will check

Josh: Chuck thought it is an implementation, just an overview

alastairc: Content on hover and focus also a bit low on implementations (canonical)

AWK: We need people too look at other sites listed

<alastairc> I think this is the other specific implementation: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluation_results_site_summary?implementation_id=134https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluation_results_site_summary?implementation_id=134

AWK: LFlegal site could be an example (lflepal.com)

Menu with hover and tab to menu items - you can't hit esc right now to make it go away

that was AWK

alastairc: automatically opens dropdown when you tab through it

AWK: no explicit way to close but you can tab on
... on some pages covers up other content
... So there needs to be a way to close the menu

Steverep: so this would be a failure

AWK: Two ways to fail
... AWK if it closes automatically it is not persistent
... What solutions should we suggest other than using ESC

steverep: Make it clickable rather than trigger to on hover

Greg: Needs a kb interface

AWK: So activating it with enter would make it no longer an example for this SC
... if you can't dismiss it without moving away you would fail unless it does not cover up other content

Greg: Other solutions would be bad for usability - you cannot use enter because the main menu item is a link

AWK: My recommendation would be to implement ESC

<alastairc> I think a quick evaluation of this (specific on hover or focus) one gets us over the line: https://www.megamenu.com/

AWK: failing that, if same content is available in another way (about page) would that satisfy things - having menu not kb accessible but content is accessible in another way

Greg: rephrases that approach

AWK: It is a different page so that would not wok here

Greg: ESC would be fine, Enter approach would not be acceptable

AWK: Hope they can implement that -
... Will work with them

alastairc: mega menus eval exisits
... Can someone do that?

<Rachael> I can take dequeuniversity and megamenus.

alastairc: Also not enough on character key shortcuts (of 5 evals only one passes)

Kim: One more passes - wordpress
... it is the comments

URL in understanding

alastairc: hasn't been added as an evaluation yet?

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementation_experience?implementation_id=95

alastairc: Who can tackle that?

AWK: I will

MichaelC: Jim has recorded a eval result but not Success for SC

AWK: Kim, do you need to be logged in?

Kim: yes, it isa when managing comments

AWK: You have to be managing the comments, nit on Wordpress.com

MichaelC: Should be added to site descriiption

alastairc: If you install Wordpress as admin you have it

Kim: yes

alastairc: Pointer gestures also low..
... eBay as main site
... may be done

Pointer Cancellation

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluation_results_site_summary?implementation_id=110

<alastairc> WET-BOEW

MichaelC: One pass, one fail

alastairc: We need a tie breake
... who wants to jump in?

Detlev will have a look

alastairc: Target size - just one

<alastairc> scribe:Rachael

Alastair: When I click on target size, I don't see it. Clarification: Fails to not count and show up.

We need target size sites to look at.

Kathy: The challenge is that those we had, failed. I don't have any other ones. We need simple sites that don't have other links.
... I am not sure the ones that failed should have. It isn't what its rendered as, its the css pixel size. We have to be looking at it in a way that reflects how the SC has been written.

Alastair: Is that on codepension (Sp?)

<Detlev__> test

Kathy: That failes because of the end links. Also, often skip links fail.

But that falls under the exception because you can scroll the screen to do the same thing. We need to come to agreement about how we test and use exceptions.

Alastair: Is there an issue for the discussion point of what is failing in GitHub?

Kathy: No, we likely need to raise an issue to get it logged as a discussion point. I can do that.

Alastair: Add an example or two.

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluation_results_site_summary?implementation_id=114

Alastair: Motion Actuation is also missing an additionl evalution. Who will take this one

Marc: I'm not sure this is a good test. This is a simple example where we add text and shake to undo.

It uses undo from IOS.

Alastair: It doesn't sound like this is a positive pass.

Michael: User agent features are allowed. It doesn't matter how it passes, as long as it passes.

Alastair: Is there a user interface component with the same action?

Presumably you can bring up the keyboard and delete.

Alastair: It's difficult to find sites that use motion actuation.

AWK: It is more of a mobile app feature right now.

<Glenda> can’t we solve these by creating simple “proof of concept” pages?

Alastair: We need something that positively implements it. We should get a second opinion on the one we do have.

AWK: What is undone when you shake?

Mark: Whatever you typed.

Alastair: Who woud like to take this second evaluation?

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluation_results_site_summary?implementation_id=115

I can test that.

<Ryladog> I think I have tested that - but I can do other sites

Alastair: We need more evaluations on Orientation

AWK: Failing is difficult on this. WebEX is an example that won't let me turn it upside down.

Alastair: Is it possible to have a positive example of something that says don't restrict it?

AWK: The other option is to use an exception.

MarcJ: Lego thought it was essential but Jake made the point that it should work even when rotated.

Alastair: What about Google Maps?

MarcJ: That would work if we can use the app but the site itself has some issues.

Alastair: We need some another example.

MarcJ: I looked last week. I have been trying to find an example where it truly can't be rotated. Can we double up such that a site that passes AA can be used to support AAA?

AWK: The example I think of is Youtube. The mobile app doesn't allow you to change the orientation, but the web version it does allow you to switch.

MarcJ: That may be a setting.
... On android, you can rotate and it works fine.

Alastair: If anyone can think of any sites that restrict orientation for an essential reason that would help. Also take a look at existing evaluations and sites.

Passing by not breaking something is a legitimate pass. What we need is sites that justify why we need it.

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluation_results_site_summary?implementation_id=139

Alastair: Status of changes needs work.

David: I tested it. Will update

<david-macdonald> DONE!

Alastair: We can use the AA sites as long as we add them to the specific SC evaluation.

<Detlev__> IS this link out of date??

<Detlev__> https://www.w3.org/2017/11/WCAG21/CR/evaluator_instructions

<Detlev__> as 404 links in it

<alastairc> Detlev - Yes and no, it is the current one, but may have out of date links!

Detlev: Is that an old page? It has out of date links.

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/evaluator_instructions.html

Michael: Go to that page from the main page of the tool. See link above.

Post CSUN F2F update

<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/

Kathy: The first link on the link is not working.

Michael: I will update that. Its pointing to WCAG 2.0 page.

Issue review https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues

Discussion: Already covered.

<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/817

Alastair: The character key remap came up as an issue.

Kathy: I filed a github issue to update that. Right before CSUN the language was taken out of the understanding. It needs to be added back in. Users need the ability to change the character key shortcuts. We have to allow speach users to use a text string.

That proposed text was to clarify that further. I've listed the recommended text in the github Issue. As long as that is added back in, I have no issue.

<Ryladog> I +1'ed this language, we need it

AWK: I think in an email, we came to the same understanding so I am happy to take a look at the issue and fix. I don't think its a problem to add it back in. My initial concern was that we had taken something out of the SC that was necessary so we need to clarify it in the understanding document.

We need to allow the user to use a character string shorcut but not require it.

Kathy: The nuance is that the user can remap it to a character key, a character key and non character key,or a noncharacter key.

AWK: The second bullet says "...one or more" so it says it but it doesn't say that the implementation must allow non-printable characters.

<Ryladog> yes

So if a page allows remapping to CTRL+Q it must also allow non printable character keys. Does that meet everyone's understanding?

yes

Alastair: Does anyone object to making this change to the understanding document?
... We will merge the language in and put out a resolution when all changes are incorporated.

Close issue 817

<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/816

<alastairc> This seems to be answered

<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/815

AWK: This is a normative change to 2.0. We have to say that we are not making a change like this. If someone wants to volunteer to research and propose an issue to the understanding document, that would be the best next step. Target May.

Alastair: Any issues that are impacting evaluations?

<JF> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/803

JF: We need to close out 803. We have general agreement to resolve this internally.

Alastair: I don't think this will impact things in the next week or so. We have plenty to do in the next few days. Email the chairs if you have issues.

Try to get through as many evaluations as you can

<laura> bye.

<alastairc> trackbot, end meeting

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Present: AWK JF MichaelC KimD Greg_Lowney alastairc marcjohlic jasonjgw SteveRepsher Glenda Kathy Katie_Haritos-Shea
Regrets: FredrikL Chuck Brooks Jake EA Katie
Found Scribe: Detlev
Inferring ScribeNick: Detlev
Found Scribe: Rachael
Inferring ScribeNick: Rachael
Scribes: Detlev, Rachael
ScribeNicks: Detlev, Rachael
Found Date: 27 Mar 2018
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