Purpose of Controls (AA) - John Foliot
SC status list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/sc-status/
<KimD> *we are in the atrium if anyone is looking for us
<marcjohlic> Orientation - Marc Johlic
Zoom Content (AA) - Alastair
<marcjohlic> Orientation (AA) - Marc Johlic
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10
<steverep> Which WebEx info is being used?
<gowerm> For content with a horizontal flow of text, content can be reflown when zoomed up to 400% from a starting width of 1280 CSS pixels
<gowerm> reflowed, sorry
<gowerm> or content reflows when zoomed....
<AWK_> Mike, can you paste again?
<allanj> For content with a horizontal flow of text, content can be reflown when zoomed up to 400% from a starting width of 1280 CSS pixels
<allanj> Alastair
<MichaelC> new webex info posted to https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag-tpac
<steverep> "For content with a horizontal flow of text, ..." - Not thrilled this implies the content must have text
<Kathy> Content can be displayed width of 320 CSS pixels without loss of content or functionality, and without requiring scrolling on more than one axis, except for parts of the content which require two-dimensional layout for usage or meaning.
<AWK_> I think that the horizontal and vertical language isn't needed
<AWK_> Steve, talking about https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10
<steverep> Mike, not true... the current text is clear about block-level reflow. That clarity must be maintained. I discussed this on GitHub. Let me find the link.
<gowerm> K, thanks Steve
<steverep> See my comments starting from https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/335#issuecomment-335052026
<KimD> *We are in the atrium
<alastairc> Steve, we're getting some noise from you. I know we have a lot of noise, but it's coming through...
<Brooks> * We are inside of the restaurant area in the atrium.
<steverep> Sorry for my screen reader noise folks - forgot to mute
<KimD> *Mike, we are having a hard time hearing each other too - it's very loud.
<gowerm> Kim, K, just wondering if it makes sense for those of us on the call -- who would not have background with you muted-- should concentrate on another topic, and report back?
<KimD> *Andrew and/or Michael are looking for a room...
<Ryladog> Thanks
<KimD> *Correction, JF is looking
<KimD> *Sandpebble C - we can go there now
<Brooks> * Changed to Sandpebble D
+AWK
+Kathy
+Gowerm
<JF> Preseent+
+JF
+Jon_Avila
+Alastair
+Jnurthen
+KimD
+Glenda
+MichaelC
+Brooks
<Brooks> Leaving Sandpebble D - looking for a new room...
<gowerm> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/544
<Ryladog> Where are we?
<Joshue108> do we have a webex to call in?
same one
<Joshue108> ok, thanx
<Ryladog> What room please
Boardroom 4
<Ryladog> Thanks
We just lost webex audio
returning as soon as possible
<Joshue108> I just hear Mike G..
<Joshue108> tnx
<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag-tpac
<AWK_> Alastair making notes on wiki page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10
<JF> currently discussing 1.4.10 Zoom Content
<AWK_> there is also a long counter that one might sit on
<AWK_> IF text size is 16px
<AWK_> zoom to 400% then if text size is 8px then it is twice as large
<AWK_> (CSS Pixels)
<AWK_> question is how to measure that have achieved 200% increase
<AWK_> Current: Content can be zoomed to an equivalent width of 320 CSS pixels without loss of content or functionality, and without requiring scrolling on more than one axis, except for parts of the content which require two-dimensional layout for usage or meaning.
<KimD> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10
<AWK_> Content can be presented at a width equivalent to 320 CSS pixels without loss of content or functionality, and without requiring scrolling on more than one axis, except for parts of the content which require two-dimensional layout for usage or meaning.
<alastairc> "and without requiring scrolling in two dimensions, except for parts of the content which require two-dimensional layout for usage or meaning."
<Glenda> I recommend we respond as follows: “We recognize that this concept is not simple to understand, but this phrase is being used to be precise in the SC text. So, we will explain this clearly in the Understanding document.”
<AWK_> Proposed title change to "Reflow" instead of "zoom content"
<alastairc> @Final" version: Reflow: Content can be presented at a width equivalent to 320 CSS pixels without loss of information or functionality, and without requiring scrolling in two dimensions, except for parts of the content which require two-dimensional layout for usage or meaning.
<Joshue108> looks good
<AWK_> And we will need to add to the understanding document to clarify the co-dependency between reflow and resize text (from 2.0)
<Joshue108> thanks Marc
<gowerm> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/415
<gowerm> ?
<AWK_> Pointer gestures: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%7Ecomment-pointer-gestures
<AWK_> Suggested text from Detlev: Where complex input gestures are supported, alternative single step gestures (such as one mouse click or one tap on a touchscreen) are also available to operate the functionality."
<AWK_> Current text: All functionality can be operated with a single untimed pointer gesture unless a multipoint or timed gesture is essential.
<bruce_bailey> creating page https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-5-1
<AWK_> Proposed: All functionality can be operated with an untimed single pointer gesture unless a multipoint or timed gesture is essential.
<AWK_> Response to 505/478 indicate this change and point out that the OS docs refer to single point activations as gestures.
<AWK_> debate on whether a long press requires timing
<AWK_> New proposal: All functionality can be operated with an untimed single-pointer @@activation@@ unless a multipoint or timed gesture is essential.
<AWK_> Need to add to understanding, and possibly the definition of Single-pointer activation that a press and hold activation is untimed
<AWK_> We need to verify with Patrick L about whether a long press is untimed.
<AWK_> response to 495: We have clarified the SC, definition, and understanding content will be added.
<AWK_> NEW new proposed response: All functionality which requires multipoint or timed gestures for operation can be operated with an untimed single-pointer activation unless a multipoint or timed gesture is essential.
<AWK_> NEWer new proposed response: All functionality which uses multipoint or timed gestures for operation can be operated with an untimed single-pointer activation unless a multipoint or timed gesture is essential.
<AWK_> (add a comma before unless)
<AWK_> 456/457: comment to indicate that we made the change suggested by David in #456 to clarify this concern.
<AWK_> Need to link "essential" to the glossary
<KimD> *test
<bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Talk:Comments_Needing_Responses
We are BACK!
Talking about Interruptions (minimum) (AA)
<bruce_bailey> Interruptions can be postponed or suppressed by the user, unless they are initiated by the user, and except interruptions involving an emergency.
Current: A mechanism is easily available to postpone and suppress interruptions and changes in content, unless they are initiated by the user or involve an emergency.
<KimD> Interruptions that are not initiated by the user can be postponed or suppressed by the user, except interruptions involving an emergency.
<bruce_bailey> Trying again:
<bruce_bailey> Interruptions can be postponed or suppressed by the user, unless they are initiated by the user or involve an emergency.
<bruce_bailey> A mechanism is available to postpone or suppress interruptions, unless they are initiated by the user or involve an emergency.
<bruce_bailey> A mechanism is available to postpone and suppress interruptions and changes in content, unless they are initiated by the user or involve an emergency.
Thinking is that for 2.2.7 we remove "changes in content" because the changes are either covered by 2.2.2 (pause, stop, hide) or are initiated by the user.
<bruce_bailey> Working on a page for notes:
<bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-2-7
<jamesn> proposed response: Session time out warnings would be an emergency as you would lose data which is property. This will be clarified in the understanding document.
<gowerm> "a sudden, unexpected situation or occurrence that requires immediate action to preserve health, safety, or property :
<bruce_bailey> A mechanism is available to postpone or suppress interruptions, unless they are initiated by the user or involve an emergency.
<scribe> New: A mechanism is available to postpone or suppress interruptions, unless they provide a timeout warning, are initiated by the user, or involve an emergency.
The warning clause is to support conformance with 2.2.1
Newer: A mechanism is available to postpone or suppress interruptions, unless they are initiated by the user, provide a timeout warning, or involve an emergency.
<alastairc> Discussion of what an interuption is, and whether pop-over (ads) count as interuption and/or change of content.
and what kind of interruption that is not a change of content
<KimD> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Talk:Comments_Needing_Responses
<gowerm> For content which does not take focus and which dynamically updates as a result of user action or application status changes, the following are true:
<steverep> What SC is being discussed?
<wilco> interruptions (minimum)
<KimD> *2.2.7 & 2.2.4
<steverep> Thanks. Lost the WebEx info... trouble anyone for the link?
<gowerm> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag-tpac
We need to:
1) clearly understand what does and doesn't count as an interruption
2) have a tight definition of "interruption"
<gowerm> +1
<bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-2-7
<gowerm> No override: error messages, time limit notices
<gowerm> Override: spelling corrections suggestions, Clippy, offers for new features
Switching to 2.6.2 Device Sensors
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-6-2
Device Sensors wiki page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-6-1
Editor draft: All functionality of the content can be operated without requiring specific device sensor information, unless the device sensor is essential for the function and not using it would invalidate the activity.
device sensor def in editor draft: device component that detects and responds to some type of input from the physical environment
Examples on mobile devices are the measurement of motion, orientation, and various environmental conditions.
Kathy: def was modified to be sensitive to motion
<Ryladog_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-6-1#Device_Sensors
<alastairc> Sorry, what number was the pull request? I heard 350 but can't see that?
<steverep> Here's the PR: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/378
From pull request 378: <a>Functionality</a> which can be operated by device or user motion can also be operated by <a>user interface components</a> and can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is <a>essential</a> for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
<p class="note">This criterion concerns input through sensors which respond directly to motions such as tilting, shaking, or panning. It is not intended to cover indirect motion associated with operating a keyboard, pointer, or assistive technology.</p>
<Ryladog_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-6-1
We still haven't received anything Steve
<gowerm> Motion Actuation: Functionality which can be operated by device motion or user motion can also be operated by user interface components and can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
Where device or user motion is used to operate content, ...can also be operated by UI Component and can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential...
<Kathy> Motion Actuation: Actions which can be operated by device motion or user motion can also be operated by user interface components and can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
<Kathy> Motion Actuation: here device or user motion is used to operate content, ...can also be operated by UI Component and can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
<Kathy> Motion Actuation: Where device or user motion is used to operate content, ...can also be operated by UI Component and can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
<gowerm> Motion Actuation: Functionality which is achievable through device motion can also be operated by user interface components ...
<Kathy> Motion Actuation: Where device or user motion is used to operate content, can also be operated by UI component and the device motion can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
ignore that last one
<AWK_> Motion Actuation: Where device or user motion is used to operate functionality in content, functionality can also be operated by User interface components and the device motion can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
<Kathy_> Motion Actuation: Where device or user motion is used to operate content, the functionality can also be operated by UI component and the device motion can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
<Kathy_> Motion Actuation: Where device or user motion is used to operate content, the functionality can also be operated by UI component, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
<AWK_> Motion Actuation: Where device or user motion is used to operate functionality in content, the functionality can also be operated by user interface components and results of device and user motion can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless the motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity.
<steverep> Motion Actuation: Functionality which can be operated by device or user motion can also be operated by user interface components and can be disabled to prevent accidental actuation, unless:
<steverep> • Essential: The motion is essential for the function and doing so would invalidate the activity; or
<steverep> • Accessibility Supported: The input interface for the motion is accessibility supported.
<Ryladog> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-6-1#Device_Sensors
<steverep> Need to relieve babysitter - I can work on this later
<AWK_> thanks Steve
<alastairc> I've put draft responses for all the zoom-comments here: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10
<Ryladog> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/sc-status/
<AWK_> Working on Orientation now
<AWK_> Current: Content is not locked to a specific display orientation, and functionality of the content is operable in all display orientations, except where display orientation is essential for use of the content.
<AWK_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-6-2
<alastairc> Further down the thread we had this;
<alastairc> Content can be displayed in any display orientation, or a mechanism is available to view and operate content in any orientation, except where a specific orientation is essential.
<AWK_> Proposed: A mechanism is available to view and operate content in any orientation, except where a specific orientation is essential.
<alastairc> The latest argument starts here: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/509#issuecomment-342686658
<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/509#issuecomment-342612810
<alastairc> From github comment: " Any technical reference to display orientation I'm aware of distills it down into AT least the subset of (0, 180, 90, -90)."
<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/509#issuecomment-342608754
<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-essential
<Ryladog> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-5-2
<AWK_> Last one - "accidental Activation"
<alastairc> In case anyone else wants the video I was showing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qADXXnPy4hA
<AWK_> @activation resulting from@ one point of contact with the screen
<Ryladog> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_2-5-2
Trackbot, end meeting
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