<Rick_Johnson> new to the wcag meetings.... can someone share the webex password?

<interaccess> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 24 January 2017

<Lisa_Seeman> i have tried the password 3 times. i seem to be messing it up. Can somone ping it to me

<Lisa_Seeman> ahh

<kirkwood> =kirkwood

<kirkwood> +kirkwood

<Lisa_Seeman> Managed

<AWK> Scribe: Mike

<scribe> scribe:Mike

Charter Update/Discussion

<marcjohlic> s/W3C/

<Joshue108> s/Mark/Marc

Rick Johnson was introduced.

Shwetank Dixit was introduced.

<david_macdonald_> welcome Shwetank

<Joshue108> http://awkawk.github.io/ag-charter.html

<MichaelC> ^ Proposed revised charter with changes

<jon_avila> What happens if the one org won't drop their formal objection until they get what they want?

Andrew K: Big issue we have right now is around the incubation topic for what we're calling Silver.

Andrew K: Hope to wrap up discussion within the week.

Andrew K: additions to charter are surrounded by add tags and are in orange

<KimD> +KimD

Judy: Clarifies the weighting. Is there strong overall support? Are there well thought out reasons for unresolved matters?

<jon_avila> thanks

Andrew K: Does the w3c have facts about charters?

Judy: W3c encouraged lively discussions about charters in last couple of years. There is more of a risk of formal objections, so it's not unusual.

Lisa S: We may find we are unable to do what we want. Proposes an extension model be put in charter.

<Joshue108> -q

Andrew: Too late to alter tactic. It is unlikely that everything any task force wants will get in. There will be additional work down the road.

Josh: Concurs. Too late to alter course.

'Proposal for modifying existing SC' https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/results

TOPIC 1: Proposal for modifying existing SC

Andrew: In a month, we'll have a better idea of interference with existing SC language.
... Reviewed results., 20 people agreed with proposal. A few people say no changes at all. 6 say consider now.

Lisa: Wants clarity on proposals that are modified SC.

+1

Andrew: Uses 1.4.8 as example. Proposal to modify a few points and add one. Recommends making a new SC with the one bullet and then some redundant information for what has changed.

Lisa: Wants clarification on what SC need to address. Example of time out she gave last week, where it is almost exactly the same. Do you write Redundant?

Andrew: Uses an example of changing colour contrast to 5:1. Attach a note saying "Similar to SC ___ " but should be drafted as a standalone SC.

Mike Pluke: Example of migrating from AAA to AA by making an exception. Two factors: few require AAA, but even if they did, it would have a more restricted scope, so automatically met.

<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say we must apply common sense to the architecture of 2.1

Josh: Need to apply common sense to architecture of 2.1. Need to be aware of potential to change existing language the potential for us to do that, is a big deal and I'd like to group to digest that.

<AWK> gowerm: trying to review SC, and it is hard when a rewrite is needed

<JF> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_SC_Numbering#Non-Specific_Feedback

JF: looking at architecture is crucial. Adoption and transition path is important.

<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to say that some SC (e.g. 2.4.4 and 2.4.9 already exist with only an exception differentiating them)

Andrew: we already have SC where the difference is an exception. 2.4.4 versus 2.4.9. AA has exception, AAA is broader.

<david_macdonald> 1.2.2 and 1.2.4 Captions prerecorded and live

<david_macdonald> 1.2.3 and 1.2.7 audio description has an alternative a level A no option on AA

Andrew: Concerns around usability can be addressed afterwards.

<david_macdonald> 1.4.5 images of text and 1.4.9 Images of text no exceiption.

Andrew: Request was new candidates be brought in as new items, not modifications.

<david_macdonald> 2.2.1 timing adjustable, and 2.2.3 no timing

<Joshue108> +1 to AWK

<david_macdonald> 2.4.4 link text and 2.4.9 no exception

<erich> Hi All - sorry had hard stop, will provide my SC Mgr updates (74 text color, 76 printing customized text, 79 font family) to the list

David: Repeat the SC with the added language and include a note.

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to voice strong opposition to "replace"

<AWK> AWK thinks that David was talking about "repeat and replace"

<jon_avila> extend

<Mike_Elledge> +1

Michael: We can give the same number to something different in 2.1 as opposed to 2.0. 2.2.2 in 2.0 may be different than 2.0 in 2.1
... As we are creating the criiteria, we always have the additions and deductions tracked, and you have all changes documented.
... Suggests leaving numbering off the first version.

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/51

Mike G: So if we are not going to consider modificatinos, what do we do with the candidates that ARE modifications

Lisa: Change the 1.4.8 and shortname and we can consider it, correct?

<JF> a change to an existing SC will (IMHO) necessitate a new SC number, so that orgs can track changes (migration) from 2.0 to 2.1

<david_macdonald> It appears the new #78 and #58 cover much of #51

<marcjohlic> +1 would welcome the extra guidance

<JohnRochford> +1 to separate meeting for SC managers

Josh: suggests holding another meeting with SC managers to clarify.

+1

<Lisa_Seeman> +1

<Joshue108> Thanks for the feedback.

<Lisa_Seeman> lets have a quick voat on the call

<Wayne> +1

Draft RESOLUTION: we will NOT consider modify existing SCs at this point (while draft 2.1 SCs are being worked on) until we see what makes the final cut for this publishing round.

<Lisa_Seeman> -1

<JohnRochford> -1

<kirkwood> -1

<Wayne> +1

Draft 2 Resolution: we will NOT consider modify existing SCs at this point (while draft 2.1 SCs are being worked on) in this round.

<KimD> +1

<JF> +1

<david_macdonald> +1

<marcjohlic> +1

<Jan_> -1

<jamesn> +1

<Mike_Elledge> +1

Draft 3 resolution: we will NOT consider modify existing SCs at this point (while draft 2.1 SCs are being worked on).

<Mike_Pluke> +1

<Makoto> +1

<MichaelC> +1

I've just trimmed off the end language

+1

<Kathy> +1

<JF> +1 for draft resolution #3

<allanj> +1

<jon_avila> +1

<laura> +1

<steverep> -1

<jon_avila> I assume this doesn't preclude us from have the proposed text as a new SC

RESOLUTION: we will NOT consider modify existing SCs at this point (while draft 2.1 SCs are being worked on). We will set up a time for additional discussion for SC managers.

<david_macdonald> to say, this decision would not be the reason for leaving out SCs

trackbot, end meeting

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Found Scribe: Mike
Found Scribe: Mike
Default Present: AWK, Rick_Johnson, Lauriat, Greg_Lowney, mattg, Rachael, MikeGower, jon_avila, Kathy, Makoto, JF, kirkwood, marcjohlic, Wayne, Laura, Lisa, Joshue108, MichaelC, Mike_Pluke, erich, David_MacDonald, Judy, JohnRochford, Shwetank_Dixit, steverep, MoeKraft, KimD, Pietro, Mike, Elledge, JamesNurthen

WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: AWK, JF, Laura, Pietro, Kathy, adam_solomon, marcjohlic, Greg_Lowney, Makoto, Lauriat, MikeGower, Jim_S, allanj, kirkwood, David-MacDonald, JohnRochford, Judy, erich)
Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Present+ AWK


WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: AWK, Rick_Johnson, Lauriat, Greg_Lowney, mattg, Rachael, MikeGower, jon_avila, Kathy, Makoto, JF, kirkwood, marcjohlic, Wayne, Laura, Lisa, Joshue108, MichaelC, shwetank, Mike_Pluke, erich, David_MacDonald, Judy, JohnRochford, Shwetank_Dixit, steverep, MoeKraft, Pietro, david_macdonald, Mike, Elledge)
Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Present+ AWK, Rick_Johnson, Lauriat, Greg_Lowney, mattg, Rachael, MikeGower, jon_avila, Kathy, Makoto, JF, kirkwood, marcjohlic, Wayne, Laura, Lisa, Joshue108, MichaelC

Present: AWK Rick_Johnson Lauriat Greg_Lowney mattg Rachael MikeGower jon_avila Kathy Makoto JF kirkwood marcjohlic Wayne Laura Lisa Joshue108 MichaelC JamesNurthen
Regrets: Alastair Srini Bruce jim_smith
Found Date: 24 Jan 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/01/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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