See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 20 January 2015
<scribe> scribe: Kathy
<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List#2015_Scribe_History
Josh: we have a few items needing responses
<Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/69
<Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/70
Marc: I can take 69
Mike: I could do 70
<David> if someone is talking I can't hear it
Josh: last week we talked about reviewing 6-11
AWK: we were doing a continuation of the review of these items
<yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/EOweek14Jan2015/results
<yatil> http://www.w3.org/2015/01/16-eo-minutes
Eric: update from the EO working
group; take the changes from WCAG working group all together so
the items from last week has not been reviewed; the minutes
detail the discussion
... talked about the making it clearer the relationship between
the tutorial and the WCAG techniques
<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/#relationship-to-wcag-20
<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/images/#related
Eric: clarified the intent of the
tutorials
... permalink and share link has been discussed
... preparing a WIKI page with the changes
Josh: in terms of the comments to
objection for publishing- one was from Leonie and the other
from Sharon
... Have Leonie's concerns been addressed?
<David> Comment: I don't think we should wrap the label around the input.
Eric: yes, need to look at the technical items and see if there are other items to address
Josh: What about Sharon's comments?
Eric: Sharon is part of EO, thought this is still a draft and should not be published
Josh: a few comments of things
missing
... going in the right direction
... before we continue through the review, a lot of the issues
will be fixed by Eric and there is work being done
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/validation/
Josh: Charles has this is a showstopper
<David> I think Example in Approach 4 should be dropped.... We sould not provide examoles of instructions not associated with the corresponding form programmatically
Josh: there is a section on server-side validation
Eric: we can make it clearer
<David> is there a place to log these
Michael: it would be helpful to have a link for input formats
Josh: Marc suggested adding techniques
Marc: should include the sufficient ARIA techniques
Josh: Katie made some comments
last week
... Michael C. has a few commments in survey
Michael: HTML5 features will be a good way to notify users but not all such as passwords not matching
Josh: Eric what do you think
Eric: we have it on the user notification page; more connected so we may need to cross link
Michael: I was missing the cross-link. The validation one needs a section about validation done by the author not using native features
Josh: comments on the different use cases for errors
Eric: we have some information on support but needs to be clearer
Josh: a couple of examples should be added
Michael: this is not a show stopper but is an important issue that needs to be addressed
David: approach one leaving span with instructions - we should drop this example
<David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/instructions/
David: we should have example that has all the instructions
<yatil> BTW: That Approach 2 was updated in response to last week’s call: http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/forms/instructions/#using-aria-labelledby (And yes, the approach numbers are off, sorry.)
<Ryladog> +1
Katie: agree with David, it is iterative but we should have HTML and aria way of doing it
Eric: we are current editing approach 2 to fix the issue with aria-labelledby
Josh: hearing that we should make sure the examples are the best we can because people will take them and use them
Eric: we are striving to have best practice examples
Josh: example 1 should be the primary approach
<Ryladog> +1 to HT
Eric: I don't know about HTML5 examples; we don't want the examples to be too complicated
Katie: HTML4 should we listed but HTML5 first
Josh: Some examples apply to HTML5
David: for HTML5 I would drop the dangling span
Katie: where there is a new HTML5 element they should be included
Josh: we need to consider user agent support
David: semi-show stopper - wrapping the label around the input
<David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/labels/
David: user agent support has been an issue
James: this seems to be supported now
<Ryladog> =
<yatil> David, we have also decided last week to have the wrapping example as the second, not the first example.
James: we should look through the techniques and update it
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/notifications/
Josh: a few editing comments, Marc suggested adding ARIA18, Michael has comments on popup
Michael: this is not a show
stopper
... dialogs are a separate topic
Eric: agree with Michael on the popup dialogs
Michael: the approach is good to have in but too much detail on how to implement a dialog
<Ryladog> +1 to
<Ryladog> mC
+1
Josh: simply is the way to
go
... do we have anything on focus management
<MichaelC> (and dialogs are used for more than just error notifications, another reason I think they should be in a separate tutorial)
Eric: no
Josh: that would be good to
add
... we need to have information that is not overly complex
Eric: we don't have time to create dialog tutorial
Josh: back to having a section that is short
<MichaelC> ackm e
<MichaelC> ackm e
Josh: Michael, how would you simplify this
Michael: my preferred option is to create a new section for this in a different tutorial but we if can't then it is best to leave it here. Long term vision is to indicate that we can do this with dialog and link to that tutorial
<David> Tested wrapping label around input works in all major browsers in NVDA and Voice Over H44 test Label technique required the "for" element http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/H44.html
Josh: best to leave it for now
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/multi-page/
Josh: not many comments
<jamesn> progress::-moz-progress-bar {
<jamesn> background-color:green;
<jamesn> }
<Joshue> Its in Safari 7 too
James: the progress bar in some browsers is an issue
Michael: violates UAAG
James: add that you need to override it until the user agent issues are fixed
<kentuckyjo> Hey, sorry for interjecting... if I had a question about the Success Criterion for a WCAG req, would this be a good place to ask?
<David> 2.2.2
Michael: movement that can cannot be stopped
<jamesn> progress::-webkit-progress-bar { }
David: what about the color contrast on billing address
<jamesn> for Eric - http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/html5-progress-bar/
AWK: 4.64:1
David: it is ok then
Michael: it is good to demostrate things that just pass
James: the code examples don't pass color contrast
<yatil> James, color on the left was changed to dark blue. http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/forms/multi-page/
James: the chrome tool will suggest the color
Eric: we don't need invest too much time on this
<Ryladog> v
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/custom-controls/
<jamesn> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/accessibility-developer-t/fpkknkljclfencbdbgkenhalefipecmb
Josh: no comments
TOPIC 10. Tips and Tricks
<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/tips/
Josh: a few editorial
comments
... would these changes be implemented
Eric: they are on the tips and tricks page
James: charles commented about optgroup
Eric: we did not fit into the other pages
Josh: we should think about this
James: the WCAG violations should not be on this page
Josh: do we need this section?
James: we could add some of these on the other pages
Josh: we should look at this and merge within the tutorial and remove this section
Eric: some of the tutorials have it and some do not
Josh: suggest to EO to merge
these
... anyone think it should stay as it is
... should be merge?
+1
<marcjohlic> +1
<Joshue> +1
<David> Another possible showstopper (decoration alt="") http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/decorative/
<jamesn> +1
<Mike_Elledge> +1
<David> +1
<yatil> +1
RESOLUTION: remove tips and trick and merge into the other tutorials
David: we are using the term
decorative images; WCAG uses pure decoration
... we should be clear in the group about what is
decorative
... when there are photos on the page, users who are blind want
to know what it is
... the examples and language does not match WCAG
Josh: log in the images tutorial
Josh: there are substantial
comments from Leonie
... Leonie has had conversation with Eric
... going in the right direction overall
... we need to wrap up now
<David> please dropin link to leonie's comments
Josh: continue with the other tutorials next week
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsForms/results
<David> yup
Josh: send comments to EO
Eric: great feedback, thank you
Josh: this is the larger and more complex tutorial
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/take 59/take 69/ Succeeded: s/Mark:/Marc:/ Succeeded: s/this in the/this in a different/ Found Scribe: Kathy Inferring ScribeNick: Kathy Default Present: Joshue, Kathy_Wahlbin, +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, +1.313.390.aabb, EricE, Michael_Cooper, Mike_Elledge, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, Kenny, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Nurthen Present: Joshue Kathy_Wahlbin +1.617.766.aaaa AWK +1.313.390.aabb EricE Michael_Cooper Mike_Elledge David_MacDonald Marc_Johlic Kenny Loretta Katie_Haritos-Shea James_Nurthen Found Date: 20 Jan 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/01/20-wai-wcag-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]