See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 15 October 2013
<scribe> scribe:David
Comments from steve and email list comments on this issue...
Josh has a list of uri's and research..will get push back if using no data information in a table...
<Joshue108> HTML5 Spec advice on data tables:
<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/tabular-data.html#the-th-element
Shailesh... feels that it works, and other blind users ... html5 does not allow headers to do non th header cells but html4 does...
SP: In html5 headers attribute cnnot reference a TD, but can do it with TH, unlike HTML4... firefox now does not allow this now...
scope on TD in HTML5SP:
SP: Reason to technique... large
number of rows... heading markup helps break things up.
... Developers don't like headers IDs... want to
simplify...
<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/IssueTableHeaders
Joshue: Chair hat off... it is a hack...Table
<Joshue108> DMacD: Recently I find both SRs do well with multiple levels of headings.
<Joshue108> DMacD: They do fine without the headers and IDs.
<Joshue108> DMacD: JAWS and NVDA tend to get it right.
<Ryladog> NOTE: Minutes have not been recorded on WCAG WAI GL minutes web page since April 2013. Here: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/minutes-history.php
leave this technique open
<Joshue108> +q
SP: Assistive technologies mess up table row headers... if you nagivate to column 1 then all the headers above are announced...
<Joshue108> DMacD: Sailesh are you saying explicitly using scope fixes this?
<Joshue108> SP:Yes
<Joshue108> +q
<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131008comments/results
<Joshue108> H63: Using the scope attribute to associate header cells and data cells in data tables - re-written
Talkikng about item number 9 on survey... h63 scope use... need to add scope... manages user experience
SP proposed modification... should explicitly use scope for row and columns... helps avoid screen readers
<Joshue108> HTML and XHTML Techniques - H51: Using table markup to present tabular information - amendment
Resolution: leave open... Sailesh put up examples with and without scope come back to this
<Ryladog> I do not like requiring scope - I like it as an option, as well as the Header/ID - this is too well established to let it die b/c some are not supporting
Soluton: leave open... Shailesh dropped from call
<Joshue108> General Techniques - Including and playing dialogue only subtitles encoded in the closed caption stream of video
<scribe> ACTION: Josh to provide feedback to Andre B. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-222 - Provide feedback to andre b. [on Joshue O Connor - due 2013-10-22].
Michael: willing to bend to consensus... don't know how useful it is... it probably works but
James: seems consensus is that it can be done but not the best way to do it.
Add to editors call agenda
RESOLUTION: leave open to discuss on editors call
<Joshue108> HTML and XHTML Techniques - Using table row grouping to associate data cells with header cells in data tables
<Joshue108> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2-techs/2012Jan/0001.html
<kerstin> +1 for quoting David on that
Yes...
<Joshue108> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-tbody-element
DavidMacD. we would rather people use their accessibility budgets doing things that fix accessibility, rather than things that look good for people looking at the code
<scribe> ACTION: Cathy to provide looking at row group and colgroup in html5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Cathy'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.
<scribe> ACTION: Kathy to provide looking at row group and colgroup in html5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-223 - Provide looking at row group and colgroup in html5 [on Kathleen Wahlbin - due 2013-10-22].
<Joshue108> . Update to Identifying valid range information with the aria-valuemin and aria-valuemax properties
Josh: looks like people want to remove it...
James: Browsers expose it but AT does nothing
Josh: can we park it maybe work on it later if AT supports increases?
James: test has problems... because
user agents shouldn't infor the user... should be AT to do that
James: if you can fix it on the fly... do so... michael?
RESOLUTION: remove ARIA3: Identifying valid range information with the aria-valuemin and aria-valuemax properties park it for edits until needed...not a priority... due to lack of AT support
<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_regions_and_landmarks
<Joshue108> +q
<marcjohlic> From another Landmark technique we have: "Landmark roles (or "landmarks") programmatically identify sections of a page. Landmarks help assistive technology (AT) users orient themselves to a page and help them navigate easily to various sections of a page. "
<Joshue108> -q
Cathy: Change example one to a NAV that has more than one, nd this is distinguishing them
RESOLUTION: accept as amended http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_regions_and_landmarks
<kerstin> bye
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/cal/call/ Found Scribe: David Inferring ScribeNick: David Default Present: +1.910.278.aaaa, Kathy_Wahlbin, Sailesh_Panchang, Peter_Korn, Michael_Cooper, Kathleen_Anderson, Cherie_Eckholm, David_MacDonald Present: +1.910.278.aaaa Kathy_Wahlbin Sailesh_Panchang Peter_Korn Michael_Cooper Kathleen_Anderson Cherie_Eckholm David_MacDonald Regrets: Alan_Smith Andrew_Kirkpatrick Found Date: 15 Oct 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html People with action items: cathy josh kathy WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]