The Journey is to Be Nothing

Barry Brailsford interviewed by Rudolf Jarosewitsch

R: Barry, what do you think the teachings of Waitaha have to offer for the healing of our
times and to counselling and psychotherapy in particular?

B: The teaching of Waitaha is an ancient wisdom, an ancient lore that is of the people of
peace. They are teachings that are found in many lands amongst many people, so they
are not exclusive. More and more today, people are simply walking into them as they
are making their own journey of discovery into the world of the spirit. Waitaha shared a
wonderful and ancient wisdom with us. We are talking of people of peace, and of their
wisdom of healing. I think that we are all on a journey of healing; we are all healers of
ourselves and in healing ourselves, of each other, and in the healing of each other, the
planet. It is a journey of healing for everyone of us. If anything, Waitaha brings us back
to that; they did establish on these lovely islands a nation of people from many lands
who walked together in peace, each using their particular wisdom, abilities, skills,
knowledge, understandings, for the benefit of all, and in the process healing.

R: When I think about psychotherapy, what comes to me is that living in peace also
means to develop peace within. I experience this a lot in the work with clients, that there
is so much suffering in internal fights, like feelings and thinking fight each other or
several impulses are there at the same time that are opposing each other. I hear you
talk about people being in peace with each other, were they also in peace within
themselves?

B: What I understand of the teachings of Waitaha is that people understood their place
within the cosmos, and - if we come to the core of it - within the family. They understood
that they had a role, and that others would help them find that role. They would get in
touch with the essence of who they were, and their life would fulfil that. A child was
watched from birth through the phases of the moon, through the seasons, in all kinds of
environments, to see where its excitement was, to see where its energy and creativity
flowed best; to find the river within the child. When that was seen, then the child was
freed in a gentle way to pursue the excitement. The child that was drawn to the forest,
would be seen to be of the tree people.

The child that was drawn to the waters and to the deeper waters was seen to be of the
whales, of the water people. A child who would constantly get out at night to look at the
stars was of the star people. Those who went to the gardens were of the Kumara. In this
way, the essence of who they were was revealed to them and to their family so they
were encouraged to follow that trail in their life.

The colours within the child were read by the mothers and the wisdom keepers, and the
child followed what was laid out for it, that fulfilled the spirit of who it was. That is only
the beginning. The child is at peace with itself, when it is within its own excitement.
There is no conflict in this. Then the child goes from there and lives a life that in a wider
sense is honouring the stars under which it is born, because the moment of its birth is
also something that was charted and gave enormous understanding to those around
them as to its destiny. The wider family, the iwi, the tribe, knew the stars under which
each child was born.
They honoured those stars and tried to ensure that the child had the opportunity to live
in harmony with what the stars foretold of its journey. This inner peace, this lack of
conflict, was very much part of its upbringing, part of its opportunity in life. Barriers
weren’t simply put there for the sake of barriers. Of course, none of us can live lives
without conflict. But the resolution of these is the finding of peace and the walking in
peace. The only place where we can come to resolution of conflict in a peaceful way is if
we can create within ourselves that inner stillness. This allows space for the wisdom to
be there for us to be in touch with the wider world that goes outside the anger and the
hurt and pain, all those other things that are part of life. In Waitaha it is said that Tawhiri
Matea, the God of winds, blows not just through the trees, but at times creates great
storms of anger, jealousy, and hate through our minds. All those things can enter us.

But it is in the still place that we find peace to get the perspective, the distance, to
embrace those things with love. That is the core teaching of Waitaha in relation to
peace. No matter what is sent against us, no matter what envy or hate or anger, the
only defense is love. The only acceptable way is the way of love. In that there is peace.
Peace is a by-product of many things. One can’t be at peace without honouring who we
are and walking the truth of who we are. Of course, the upbringing within Waitaha was
to give us the freedom to know who we were from the earliest time and to walk it. And
then when conflict came, to find the place where we could stand and respond with love.

R: This reminds me of the concept of self love, self acceptance, which is often missing.
So many people grow up and have expectations put on themselves, like if the father
was a lawyer, the son has to be a lawyer too. That might not be their nature, what they
are drawn to do. This is an example of how discrepancy, disharmony is created within
the individual. What I hear is appreciating the individual for their particular strength,
orientation and interest, so they can grow up in peace with themselves.
I also recall you talking about Pounamu and its significance. I recall it as the symbol of
Aroha, unconditional love. Can you say more about Pounamu?

B: Pounamu is the sacred stone of this land. It is the core to the spirit of this land. Within
the great rainbow of the planet, the colour of Aotearoa is green; the colour of healing.
The stone of this land is Pounamu, which is often called greenstone. The spirit of this
land is Aroha, or love, and the stone embodies that spirit. It is a very special stone.
In Waitaha understanding, it is of the stars, Mere Pounamu, the star of many colours.
Pounamu is not only green, it can be white, black, blue, green, light green, dark green,
or golden. It has many, many colours. No matter what colour, its spirit is always the
same. It is the stone of healing; it embodies the spirit of love. When we touch the stone,
we touch into the stars, into the beginning of all. All that is, is of the stone, and the stone
is all that is. The stone is of the beginning, it endures and is of the end. The stone is of
the mountain that stands tall, that falls down into the river, is carried to the oceans, its
boulders in the streams, to finish up at the beaches as sand, to sink deep within the
ocean, to be bedded down and become rock again, to be raised again in the future as
mountains. So the song of the stone is an enduring one, of all ages. The spirit of
Pounamu is the spirit of creation, the lore of the universe. The lore that drives the
universe is love. That is the spirit of the stone.

It was carried throughout this land in times past. Even when ocean voyages were easier
than land journeys it was carried over land to the villages, for the healing of the land and
the people. And it was carried beyond these shores. Each generation went back to the
homelands, that it might go beyond those homelands, until it was reaching out to the
world. That is its journey again, to heal the planet. The old ones say, it inseminates, it is
the seed of rebirth of the Earth Mother.

R: There is the theory of Gaia, that the earth mother is a living being. We do a lot of
damage to it by exploiting its resources, and in turn it affects us as people. To be
respectful of the Pounamu; is this a way to make peace with the Earth Mother, or what
else can you see that needs to be done in order to reverse this process?

B: I believe we have come to a time when the power of people and the power of the
stone walking together can bring huge healing to the planet. There was a time when just
taking the stone to places and leaving it there was felt to be the healing that was
required. More and more I see that it is the journey of someone taking a stone to a
place, being in that place and joining their love to that of the stone that puts something
essential into the healing process. It is time for us to realise that we are part of the web
of life of this planet. It is time to step beyond separation - which has been our journey for
the last 2000 years - to the joining of our heart with the heart of the stone. Bring those
together, the love we have and the love of the stone, and gift them to the earth. When I
give the stone to people I ask them to carry it with them or give it to others to carry on
their journeys, but not to leave it hidden within the earth. When we walk with the stone
and give our love, we are healers of ourselve s and the planet. Both are needed now.
R: There are a lot of people doubting themselves. I can recall self-doubts in myself. I
remember you saying that everybody has a story to tell and how important it is to tell
their story. I think, a problem with this is that many people doubt that they have
something to give, that they have something to offer, they doubt themselves. What do
you see it is that people can contribute towards their own healing and the healing of the
universe, as everybody has something to offer?

B: I think, it is essential understanding, that we see each person as having a journey

that is meaningful. Our society has fragmented, and created a barrier to our
understanding of who we are. In our earlier years, for many of us, we have journeyed
into places where we have become lost and where have been asked to carry all kinds of
baggage that isn’t for our journey. It is important that we come back to who we are. That
is a very difficult thing, the journey of discovery, even though deep down, we have this
understanding of who we are. There are moments when we touch into it and see it and
stand in it. There are other times when we simply accept the baggage as the reality. We
have to find the courage to hold on to each little piece of who we are that we discover.
As we do that, we call up fears that block the way, that stop us from being who we are.
As we call up the shadows that are part of our lives, incidents, pain, disillusionment,
mistrust placed upon us, abandonment, etc. and bring love to these thi ngs, each in
turn, embracing them, and nurturing the pain of that time, then we begin to heal
ourselves. And in that healing, we start to walk who we are, we start to step beyond the
fears that create this lack of confidence that keep creating doubts within ourselves, until
we are standing more and more in who we are. Then more and more the trail becomes
obvious to us, and we know the next step. That’s enough, and we take it and then we
see the next step. We grow step by step. That doesn’t mean there aren’t difficulties or
pain. But there is more and more understanding. No matter what happens to us, we are
more and more true to who we are, becoming increasingly free, free of fear, filled with
greater confidence and at peace.
R: This is an area where conventional medical profession or psychotherapy has done a
lot of disservice to people by putting labels on people making them believe they are less
than ok, missing out on acknowledging the potential that is within everyone of us. Would
you go along with the statement that no matter what the mental, psychological or
emotional condition of a person is, there is still purpose in their being. The challenge is
to discover this purpose and support them in living their truth fully, rather than labelling
them and putting them in institutions?

B: Absolutely. What you are saying is wonderful. It is very wise. One of our biggest
problems today is that we label people and then limit them. They can be labels of
illness, of disability, of uncertainty. They can be all sorts of things. The labelling is a
huge disservice. The journey in the end is to be nothing, and in being nothing, we are
capable of being everything. There are no labels, no boundaries, simply limitless
freedom, to fulfil all that we are within, simply to be. I believe that is the journey, and it is
open to everyone. We have to accept that where people stand when they walk their
truth is right for them. We just let them be.

R: I believe the reason for labelling is insecurity. It gives me a sense of security to say I
am a such-and-such. To say I am nothing actually requires a lot of strength; to really
face this uncertainty of the present moment. Can you see any purpose in the need for
safety or security by having a label or having a knowing, for example that I am of the
star people, or of Waitaha, or a Gestalt therapist or healer? Do you only see the
limitations, or is there a purpose too?

B: No, I think there is a purpose in those things that you mention. We do find a place
when we honour the spirit of who we are. We simply know who we are, where our
excitement is, where our heart is, where fulfilment is and huge creative energy, when
we are doing the work that is right for us we are filled with an energy that simply renews
us day by day, rather than depleting us. So there is a place. But it’s in the labelling, the
way it’s done. When we know who we are, we are able to stand on a very high place
and see far and far beyond. We have that security in the knowing within the spirit of us,
who we are. This is a knowing of the spirit, this isn’t a labelling from the outside. It is an
understanding of our uniqueness, and who we are. If people say they want to walk in
the spirit of Waitaha, that is wonderful, they are walking in the spirit of the people of
peace. When you walk in peace, it’s a journey, it’s not a label that holds you in one
place. As long as the names we are giving to that part of our journey are open and not
restricting, that’s fine, they are markers on our journey, markers along the way. I say of
myself, I know that I am a trail maker, I know that I am a catalyst, I know that I am a
story teller, these are of my journey. I know I am of many peoples and many things, and
I am open to more knowing and to more journeying, and I am open to being nothing. So
I have these things that I know are of me and of the journey, but none of them are an
end in themselves.

R: I see it clearer now. Labels are restrictive because they are static, they leave no
option, no movement. I like your term "Markers on the way". We need to stay open for
change, which is what happens all the time anyhow.

I have a sense that there are two ways of being, one is to be with love, one is to be with
fear. I see these as opposing forces. My experience is that when I am with fear, I tend to
want to control, and labelling is just one form of that. I want to go all rational. When I am
with love, I get a sense of what it is like to sit with the stone, to listen to the song of the
stone. I haven’t yet found words to say more about this, to describe this, maybe you
have some.

B: You have put something there that is amazing. I think that in close relationships,
when there is some kind of crisis, some kind of mis-understanding, our response can be
one of two things: One the response to protect, the response of fear, and the other the
response to learn. The moment we go into the response to protect, the response of fear,
then we have shut down the doors to learning. We are coming into self justification and
are closing doors to understanding. We are building barriers against the one we are in
fact wanting to open doors towards. It’s only the response to learn, to be open, to be
totally accepting, to be open to understanding that opens the door to freedom. Fear is
the enemy of freedom. We have to go with the learning, and of course, learning and
freedom are so much part of love. So if we go with love, we are being open with our
partner and are setting ourself free to learn. We are allowing for the growth of the
relationship, for the continuance of love, for the enrichment in it, and for the possibility of
two people standing together side by side, each completely in their freedom, yet each
very much in love.

R: I also recall you speaking about five different levels of connection in relationship. Can
you say some more about the five ways of being connected in deep intimate
relationships?

B: I sometimes say, there are five points to the star. When a relationship develops and
grows into something that is beautiful and complete in the way that I have been
describing, when two individuals stand utterly in their freedom, and yet are joined in
their love, that’s when I say, all five points of the star touch. For me it’s a visual image of
the wonder of two lives coming together, something that is very special. In some
relationships you see that the stars touch with enormous power on one point;
sometimes it may be simply the physical sexual joining. That has a power in its own
way, but it’s not enough. That energy which is so important in all of life, that wonderful
creative sexual energy, when it touches into the realms of the spirit, when it is part of
the realms of utter freedom and part of the wider realms of learning and nurture, then it
is an energy that reaches far beyond the two who had joined in it. It spills over into the
world at large, and is a thing of healing. It is one of the most powerful forces in the
world. Unfortunately today it is commercialised and wrapped in expectations. It is easy
for the reality of it to be lost, the expectations to be distorted, and the whole thing to fall
out of phase with what it was really meant to be, and what it is for many people. So I
haven’t really addressed myself to your question. I have touched on some of the points
of the star. It’s not something I have sat down and thought about carefully. It’s just an
image that I have had, when I see two people together and producing that beautiful
energy. This has to be the product of two people who are standing in that special place
as one.

R: Thank you, it feels a lot that you have given here. One last question: You said earlier,
that Waitaha reaches far beyond the shores of this land. I understand, people came
from different shores, and it was here in Aotearoa that they met and Waitaha lived here.
Can you say more about how it is connected to the rest of the world, and what is the
significance?

B: When I have made my journeys overseas, the elders have said, ‘you have been to
Waitahanui’. They are saying, ‘you have been to the wider world of peace, the old
families beyond these shores, and they are of us also’. I do see a time in the past,
thousands of years ago, when there were many peoples of peace in the world living in
wonderful societies, that were just as Waitaha were in this land. Subsequentluy a great
tide of darkness swept through those countries, and the people of peace were no more
or were terribly damaged. That is the story of this land. I think, there is a past that has
been hidden from us. We are given a picture of humanity as being a destructive,
aggressive, angry, possessive culture. But certainly for this land, there was another
example. That example existed in North America, in South America, in Central America,
in Africa, in Europe, in Asia. If we go deep enough, we will find the remnants of the
cultures of peace, the old nations. I believe, they weren’t just bound together in this
philosophy, and this beautiful life bound to nature and to each other with such
gentleness and such nurture alone. If we go deep enough, we’ll find that they existed,
and not only that, that they were connected in ways that are returning for some people,
so that they knew of each other. The more I go back into other cultures of the people of
peace, I find universals. I find an understanding that goes very deep. I found that I could
sit with the medicine women and medicine men of North America, and we were
speaking the same language. The old things of Waitaha are the old things of their land.
The message that comes from Tibet, loving kindness and compassion, gentleness, the
peaceful way is, I believe, something that flows from deep within a culture and is part of
a stream that has flowed through history, way back beyond the age of aggression and
war that has coloured our whole view of the world, creating fear and mistrust, where
once people walked without fear and with trust.

R: Thank you.

.
Barry Brailsford, MBE, historian and archaelogist was taken into the realms of ancient
and sacred knowledge when the oldest tribes in Aotearoa invited him to write "Song of
Waitaha". This has been a life changing experience for him and took six years. Barry is
the author of 18 other books, including "The Tattooed Land", "Greenstone Trails", "Song
of the Stone", "Song of the Circle".