MINDFULNESS MEDITATION

Jhana Grove Retreat

Selected Q&A 2011
Sayadaw U Tejaniya

SHWE OO MIN DHAMMA SUKHA TAWYA

This is a gift of Dhamma and must not be sold. You may make
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for permission from Ashin Tejaniya first before doing any
translations on this book.

Copyright © Ashin Tejaniya 2014

Shwe Oo Min Dhamma Sukha Tawya
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Kon Tala Paung Village

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PO 11022 Yangon, Myanmar Tel: 951-638-170

For more Dhamma materials, please visit: www.sayadawutejaniya.org

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NAMO TASSA BHAGAVATO ARAHATO

SAMMĀ SAMBUDDHASSA

Homage to Him, the Blessed One, the Worthy One,


the Perfectly Self-Enlightened One
Acknowledgements

My special gratitude goes to my teacher, the late Venerable Shwe Oo Min Sayadaw Bhaddanta Kosalla Mahā
Thera, who taught me Dhamma and the right attitude for my spiritual development and meditation practice.

I want to express my appreciation to all yogis. Their questions and difficulties have once again inspired many of
the explanations in the Dhamma discussions. I really hope that this selection will help yogis to better understand
mindfulness meditation and to deepen their practice.

Finally, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to the completion of this selection.

Ashin Tejaniya

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Dear Reader, Meditations during the retreat are also included. For the
selected Q&As we tried to present themes that were not
included in the book “Awareness Alone is not Enough” or
where Sayadaw has given different explanations to similar
themes. Some Pāli terms are used in the discussions, please
refer to the glossary at the end for a short explanation, for
more complete definitions please consult Buddhist texts and
dictionaries.

This selection has been produced for yogis practicing at the

Shwe Oo Min Dhamma Sukha Tawya Meditation Center. It is
meant as a source of information and inspiration for yogis,
please note that this certainly cannot replace the personal
guidance of the teacher. And since most of the questions here
This is a selection of questions and answers and teachings
are made based on yogis’ personal experiences, perhaps you
from the retreat given by Sayadaw U Tejaniya at Jhana Grove,
may find some of the advice not useful to you. As mentioned
Australia in November 2011. If possible the questions have
in the book “Awareness Alone is not Enough” please only
been kept in their original form in order that readers can
apply what immediately speaks to you and what you can easily
understand the context of Sayadaw’s answers and comments,
put into practice.
some questions and answers have been edited to facilitate
comprehension.

We have tried to transcribe and edit the Q&As and Sayadaw U

Tejaniya’s teachings as accurately as possible. Please excuse
The selection of Q&A here is presented by theme in
any errors made in the transcription and editing process.
alphabetical order for easy reference, some of the teachings
Kindly contact us to point out any mistakes.
have been extracted from Q&As not included in the selection
and are presented in the form of ‘Dhamma Inspiration’,
Dhamma reminders given by Sayadaw in the Guided

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Finally we show our deepest appreciation and gratitude to
Sayadaw U Tejaniya for guiding and supporting us in our
practice with great patience. We also give thanks to all those
who have contributed in this process: the yogis who
participated in the retreat, the interpreter Ma Thet, Alexis
Santos, Amy Wang, Calvin Lee, Christine Lem, Elizabeth
Derow, Hakon Solarin, Heidi Ché, Monica Antunes, Raúl
Saldaña, Seonrae and anyone unintentionally left out here.

May all beings benefit from this gift of Dhamma.

The editors, complier and transcribers.

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Table of Content

1. Meditation 8 2.23 Intuition 85

2. Selected Q&A by theme 23 2.24 ‘It's difficult to meditate’ 87
2.1 Acceptance 24 2.25 Jhāna 90
2.2 Agitation 26 2.26 Kamma 91
2.3 Anger 27 2.27 Knowing Mind and Object 93
2.4 As much as you do, as much as you get 30 2.22 Magga ñāṇa 97
2.5 Awareness + wisdom, investigation, 2.29 Many Minds 98
asking questions, interest 33 2.30 Memory 100
2.6 Awareness and No Awareness 38 2.31 Metta/ Karunā 101
2.7 Choiceless Awareness 43 2.32 Mind Power 105
2.8 Concepts and Reality 44 2.33 Mind Process 106
2.9 Death 50 2.34 Nāma-rūpa 108
2.10 Delusion 51 2.35 Nibbāna 109
2.11 Dreams/ Sleep 53 2.36 Objects 111
2.12 Drowsiness/ Dream like states 55 2.37 Observing the Observing Mind/
2.13 Dukkha 58 The Knower 115
2.14 Every moment is new 59 2.38 Pain, Anxiety & Fear 122
2.18 Fear/Projection of mind 61 2.39 Patience/ Persistence 125
2.16 Focus or Bird's Eye View 63 2.40 Personal Effort/ Right Effort/ Effortless 127
2.17 Formal practice/ Retreat/ Daily Life 67 2.41 Positive Thinking 132
2.18 Greed, Attachment in the Practice 71 2.42 Preconceived Ideas 134
2.19 Grief 74 2.43 Quiet and Peaceful 137
2.20 Honesty 76 2.44 Reading 139
2.21 “I” 78 2.45 Reflect, Track Back experiences 140
2.22 Intention 81 2.46 Right Information 141

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2.47 Right View 143
2.48 Samatha & Vipassanā 146
2.49 Satipaṭṭhāna 148
2.50 Seeing & Looking 149
2.51 Sensual Pleasure 151
2.52 Sickness 152
2.53 Skilful Awareness, Attitude 154
2.54 Society, Family 156
2.55 Specific Characteristics 164
2.56 Spiritual Urgency 166
2.57 Step Back 167
2.56 Talking 170
2.59 Teacher 174
2.60 Thinking/ The Intention to Think 177
2.61 Tuning, Balance/ How to Practise 184
2.62 Upekkhā 188
2.63 Watching Defilements 189
2.64 Wisdom/ Understanding 196
3. Dhamma Inspiration 201
3.1 Dhamma Inspiration 202
3.2 Dhamma Reminders in Guided
Meditation 210

Glossary

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C HAPTER 1

Meditation

Meditation means cultivating good,

kusala (wholesome) qualities of mind.
We want to encourage, cultivate, and
allow these qualities to flourish in the
mind.
some object or another. It could be the body, the mind,
feelings, or anything else.
Meditation What we are most interested in is the mindfulness rather than
the object. What I want to emphasize and discuss with you
more is the mindfulness itself, the mind that is mindful,
because the work of meditation is purely the work of the
mind. Meditation is not done by the objects that we are
observing. In Pāli there is a saying that bhāvanā
(meditation) is the work of the mind itself.

About meditation
Meditation means cultivating good, kusala (wholesome)
Object and awareness
qualities of mind. We want to encourage, cultivate, and allow
these qualities to flourish in the mind. In meditation two parts come together: the objects or your
experience (ie the things that you are aware of) and the
We use objects, the things that we come in contact with, as the
awareness itself.
basis upon which to develop these good qualities of mind,
such as the five indriyas (spiritual faculties): sati Very generally speaking, everybody has only six potential
(awareness), samādhi (stability of mind), saddhā (faith), objects because there are six sense doors: sight, smell, sound,
viriya (effort), and paññā (wisdom). touch, taste, and the mind itself (thoughts and so on.) When
we use the six objects to build sati (awareness), samādhi
Here we practice Satipaṭṭhāna, the foundations of
(stability of mind) and ultimately paññā (wisdom) in the
mindfulness. This practice is based on mindfulness. There are
mind, this is called meditation.
four foundations of mindfulness: mindfulness of body,
feelings, mind, and nature (meaning everything). These four
foundations (body, feelings, mind, and nature) are what we
consider as objects. So there is the mindfulness, and there is
the object, because you will always be mindful or aware of
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Motivation Right Energy

It is very important for the meditating mind—the awareness You don’t need to use a lot of energy. Just to know and to
or mindfulness—to be a wholesome mindfulness or recognize what is happening with yourself does not require a
awareness, free of defilement. If any defilement—greed, lot of energy.
aversion or delusion—is part of the mindfulness then right
• Do you know that you are seeing? Can you recognize that
meditation does not happen.
you are seeing?
In the same way, it is very important not to be wanting or
• Before I asked you, did you know that you were seeing?
desiring something from the practice, or developing aversion
to something in your practice, when these happen or when • You were seeing, but did you realize that seeing was
you don’t know what to do in your practice, that’s when right happening? That it was part of your experience?
practice isn’t quite happening. So that’s basically lobha
(greed), dosa (aversion), and moha (delusion.) The most When we wake up in the morning, the first thing we do is
common failing for all of us as meditators is greed in open our eyes and see, but we never really realize that seeing
meditation. When we have greed in our meditation, ie when is happening.
we are trying to get something in or from our meditation, we Just now, when you recognized that you were seeing, how
use a lot of energy. much energy did it take to recognize that you were seeing?
It is the same in all three cases—greed, aversion, and delusion. Nothing! A tiny little bit…
When we want something from the practice (lobha) we start That’s what I’m trying to demonstrate about awareness, it’s
to use a lot of energy. When we have aversion (dosa) to just this recognition of the experiences of your senses.
something in the practice, we also start to use a lot of energy.
And when we don’t know what to do (moha), we suddenly In practicing mindfulness or mindfulness meditation, people
start using a lot of energy. often misunderstand mindfulness; they think they have to use
a lot of effort to pay attention to something. But just now we
saw how, for example, recognizing that you are seeing does
not require a lot of energy.

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You may recognize that you are seeing, that you are hearing, Conscious of yourself
you may recognize something on your skin, what you are
tasting, etc, these are just examples. In a very general way, all There are a lot of things that you might be aware or conscious
you are doing is becoming conscious of yourself; for example of in yourself. You don’t have to focus on only one thing for a
you are sitting, and you are aware of that. long, long time. Whether you are aware of an ongoing physical
or mental process, something physical in your body or
What else have you become conscious of in yourself? something that you are feeling, something that is bothering
you or something that is making you feel good, whatever you
Yogi: Hearing.
become conscious of, when you are conscious that’s when you
Yogi: Breathing. are meditating. What I’m interested in is that you know that
something is going on, that you are conscious of yourself.
SUT: And?
The cornerstone of mindfulness meditation is the mindfulness
SUT: Temperature, all the touching sensations, movement, itself, that you are aware, conscious. When you use your
feelings… energy to focus on one thing all the time sometimes you will
tend to miss the rest of what is going on in your body and
mind. When you focus a lot on one thing you may fail to
notice other things that might be significant.

Initially you won’t be aware of a lot of things at once because

the mindfulness is not expanded, it hasn’t been built up. You
haven’t developed the habit of constantly being aware. You
will just be aware of a limited number of things, one or two at
a time. But as the awareness develops, as you continue to
remain conscious and the awareness becomes sharper, you
might notice that the awareness seems to expand, it seems to
receive a lot more, much more easily. You naturally become
conscious of many things at once.

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A yogi’s duties going to identify the experience with something or somebody.
It is not somebody making a loud sound, or something that
The cultivation of meditation means the cultivation of the made you smile, it’s just what’s happening right now in the
quality of mind of mindfulness. Yogis have three duties or mind. The mind has experienced this. When it’s hot, it’s hot,
parts to play in the mindfulness process: to have right view, to when it’s cold, it’s cold. It’s not ‘I’m hot’ or ‘I’m cold.’ It’s not a
have mindfulness or consciousness, and to sustain that person or a thing, it’s just an experience.
mindfulness or consciousness continuously.
When we don’t inject this right view once in a while our
You may remain aware of one object for some time or you may natural inclination is to identify with the experience, ‘it’s my
become aware of a couple of objects for some time. The experience,’ ‘it’s happening to me,’ ‘I am this.’ And when this
objects may change, they may become more or less—it doesn’t identification with the experience—‘I am disturbed’ or ‘I am
matter. What is important is that you are aware. happy’—comes in, defilements quickly follow.
You need to check yourself, whether you are conscious, Initially you might sometimes have to try to think to see if you
whether you are aware, and whether you have right view or can take this view. But if you are able to inject some of this
right attitude. right view into the experience, when you are actually
successful in seeing the experience with right view, you will
find that defilements don’t follow.
View and attitude of awareness
When you’re able to accept what is happening naturally as it is
Right view or right attitude is to accept anything and —for example it’s hot and you are able to see that this is just
everything that you experience as part of nature. It doesn’t an experience—that this is what is being experienced now,
matter whether it’s a loud sound or an itch, a pleasant then feelings of aversion, of needing to get away from the
sensation or happiness—all these are natural. If you feel heat, of making yourself more comfortable and all that, may
angry, it’s natural, just observe, be conscious that this is what not follow. You may be able to accept that this is an
is happening now. experience, and stay with it to observe it and be with it.

In everything that you experience, everything you come in Dhamma is nature, everything that happens naturally is
contact with, remind yourself that this is just how things are. dhamma, dhamma is everything, everywhere.
This is the object, this is what is being known. You are not

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We are trying to see what is, exactly as it is, and not embellish awareness. The stability will grow as you continue to be
it with our opinions, judgments, and ideas. aware.

For example, when there is pain, do we like the pain? No?

That’s because we have decided that pain is not good. But pain
is a natural phenomenon. When there’s body, there will be When and where to practice?
discomfort. It’s not a problem, it’s just a manifestation of
The practice of Dhamma happens all the time and
nature. When we think it’s a problem, when we think that
everywhere. As long as you are conscious or awake, from the
there should not be pain, then every time pain comes we make
moment you wake up until the moment you fall asleep, every
it a problem.
moment is the time to practice Dhamma.
When we think differently, when we can think of things as
It’s not difficult. You’re sitting and you know that, right? Is it
being natural, as being what they are supposed to be, then we
difficult just to know that? Or just to recognize that you are
don’t react towards what is happening with attraction or
walking? Just that.
aversion. When we are practicing the Dhamma, this right view
is very, very important. When right view is not there we find
ourselves just reacting and not growing. But if we are able to
What’s important is sustaining that awareness. In the
see things with right view, we are able to cultivate
beginning the awareness may be very simple, just recognizing
mindfulness and carry on.
walking for example, nothing specific. But when you sustain
that consciousness of being in motion, after a while you will
find that specific things start coming into the consciousness.
Developing samādhi You start to become conscious of a little sound here, a little
feeling there, you become more and more conscious of small
Here we are not going to develop samādhi (stability of mind)
things. Everything starts to come in little by little. Allow it to
by focusing on something to calm the mind down, instead we
enter into your consciousness naturally. All you need to do is
are going to develop samādhi by trying to inject right view.
to stay with your mind.
When right view is present the mind does not react, and it
therefore retains its stability; that is samādhi. Slowly this
samādhi will start working together with the continuity of

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Thinking Why are we trying to be mindful? What is
our goal?
We may think that when we start drifting off into our thoughts
we are not with ourselves anymore, but if you are conscious Are you trying to be mindful because we are in retreat? Or
that you are thinking you are still with yourself. because Sayadaw says you must? Why do you want to be
mindful? Why do you want to become conscious of yourself?
We’re not trying to make the mind still to the point that it is
not thinking, that’s not what I mean by samādhi. That’s not Yogi: Less suffering.
how we still the mind. What we are trying to do is to be
conscious, not still. Our goal is to be conscious, to be awake Yogi: More peaceful.
and aware, whatever the experience might be.
Yogi: More awake.

Yogi: Aware of what’s going on.

SUT: Yes, and the whole point of all this is so that we can
understand. Mindfulness is a learning process. In the process
of being mindful and conscious of ourselves, we learn about
ourselves. When we really understand something, it’s like an
epiphany, the mind suddenly understands and then becomes
free of what was encumbering it. That’s what the ultimate goal
is. So being conscious leads to the awakening of
understanding, which leads to peace.

Peace itself is not the goal. If peace is your goal then at those
times when you cannot achieve peace by doing meditation you
If you’re walking, you might just be conscious of the whole will not know what to do. When the goal is to understand, you
form moving, walking, you don’t have to concentrate on the can try to understand suffering too.
sole of your foot or the tip of your head, or anything like that.
When you are peaceful don’t think that you have reached the
You don’t have to choose specifically what to be aware of.
end of your journey, there is still more to understand. When
we are very peaceful we get very comfortable in the feeling of
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peace and sometimes it becomes moha. We bliss out… peace something in your experience and you become interested in it,
becomes our goal. We indulge in the peaceful feeling, get your own wisdom is actually already at work.
attached to it...
When we’re conscious in a general way and things are coming
Yogi: Get cranky when it’s not there… into the mind, they seem to come and go and come and go.
Don’t think that this is a waste of time. The mind is in fact
Interpreter: Yes, get cranky when it’s not there, most
collecting data so that at some point in the future, when all the
importantly.
data comes together and makes sense, understanding can
SUT: If we don’t have understanding, if our understanding is arise.
not growing, then we have to use our wisdom to work towards
When the mind has collected enough data to enable it to
it, to wake it up and start to build it up. Developing wisdom is
investigate the experiences that come through the stream of
like making money: in order to make more money you have to
consciousness and get a full picture, that’s when
invest money. Likewise, in order to gain more wisdom you
understanding arises. So don’t underestimate the value of
have to invest wisdom.
everything you are conscious of, even though it may not make
The goal of mindfulness is to develop wisdom, understanding. sense right away.
Whether the experience is happy or unhappy, if we know how,
When we become interested in something, that’s when we
if we allow the mind to explore, eventually something can be
start to look at it in more detail and that’s when we discover
understood from every experience.
more about it, the mind will then understand more. This
So rather than focusing on other peripheral experiences and happens naturally.
making them the goal of your meditation, I want you to
When you are being aware of yourself, there’s not much else
practice mindfulness and use your innate wisdom in order to
besides your physical and mental process. It’s only when you
develop more wisdom.
make the effort to be aware of yourself as much as possible
that you begin to notice more about yourself, and you will be
able to learn and understand more from this.
Interest and wisdom
So anytime is Dhamma time. Don’t forget yourself—even in
We may not recognize that a simple thing like interest is a the toilet! Don’t allow your mind not to be aware—it might do
characteristic of wisdom. When you are conscious of
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this by itself—but don’t consciously allow your mind not to be Because they don’t integrate Dhamma into their lives, they
aware. don’t try to be aware when they are living their normal lives
outside of retreat time.
It’s not only while on the sitting cushion that you are
supposed to be aware. Regardless of what you’re doing, Just as we make the effort to practice Dhamma during a
whether you’re taking a shower or eating, looking at retreat, when we are back home we need to try to maintain the
something or somebody, or thinking, please be conscious of effort to be aware, although it may be to a lesser degree.
yourself, be aware. Dhamma and defilements are always engaging in a tug-of-
war.
And please be conscious of the fact that you see and look. Do
you all know how to practice meditation with your eyes open?
Yes? Just being aware.
Meditating with open eyes
You can also try practicing sitting meditation with your eyes
Practicing Dhamma in daily life open. Seeing can be one of the objects of meditation, it’s a
very obvious object. Seeing is happening, sight is happening.
I want you to be able to bring the practice of Dhamma into
Can you choose not to see when your eyes are open?
daily life so that life itself becomes the practice of the
Dhamma. I ask you to be aware of when you are seeing and You can choose to be conscious of it.
when you are looking, because that’s something that’s very
The recognition that seeing is happening might come again
much part of our daily lives. One of the ways you can bring
and again, that’s all you need to do. It’s not so much to be
Dhamma into life is to be aware that you are seeing, then you
interested in what we are seeing—the person, the floor, etc—
will be meditating with your eyes open.
but the very fact of sight itself. We all know how to be aware of
As you live life you should be practicing Dhamma. Dhamma hearing, right? Does that seem easier? Why have we never
and life must not be separated. Dhamma must be a part of our noticed seeing? If we are not proficient at being aware of all
lives otherwise when Dhamma is not present in our lives, our sense doors then we can’t really say that we are
defilements will be there. completely proficient in meditation.

Why do some yogis who have practiced for years feel that they Some yogis have told me that they are afraid to open their
have not changed or that they may not have matured? eyes after a sitting meditation session. I ask why, and they say,
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“Because when I open my eyes my samādhi is gone.” That’s will use the objects at the six sense doors to develop
not very good samādhi. If the mere act of opening the eyes consciousness, stability of mind, understanding, wisdom, and
makes the stability of the mind go away then that samādhi all the good qualities of mind, instead of greed, aversion, and
was not very strong or stable. Whether we are seeing, walking, delusion.
eating, taking a shower, or sitting, samādhi must always be
The six sense doors are the same for everybody; only the mind
there.
differs, the point of view of the mind is different. If the person
What is the cause of samādhi? What causes samādhi to be has right understanding, right view, and some knowledge
there? Right view and continuity of awareness. Persistence, or from somewhere then they will regard the six sense doors
sustaining the awareness, together with right view naturally differently and use them for development.
make the mind stable.

We mentioned earlier that meditation means cultivation of

the good qualities of mind, like stability of mind and
awareness. So every time we see or look, instead of having
aversion arise, have consciousness, right view, and stability of
mind arise. When we hear something, instead of having greed,
aversion, or delusion towards it, be conscious of it.

When a person uses the experiences at all six sense doors to

develop awareness, stability of mind, wisdom, and so on, you
call that person a meditator or a Dhamma person.

The six sense doors are exactly the same for a person who
practices Dhamma and a person who doesn’t practice
Dhamma. The difference is the mind—the consciousness and
the understanding.
The three kinds of wisdom
A person who does not practice Dhamma will have
There are three kinds of wisdom: things that we hear or read
experiences at the six sense doors and react to them with
about, Dhamma talks—such as this talk right now— books,
aversion, greed, and delusion. A person practicing Dhamma
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etc, all these are borrowed knowledge or borrowed wisdom. The Dhamma point of view of ‘this is nature’ or ‘this is what is
Then there is your own innate wisdom, when you think about happening,’ is a different way of seeing things to the normal,
something logically in your own mind. And finally there is worldly point of view of ‘this is happening to me’ or ‘this is my
developed wisdom. When you use the first two kinds of experience.’ In meditation this view is very important because
wisdom, and you are conscious and mindful and you learn the view, or lens, through which we face an experience,
something more, you find a point of view that you did not see determines the subsequent reactions or responses of the
before, that is developed wisdom. mind.

When we get right information it is borrowed wisdom, but

right information can also help us to develop the other two
kinds of wisdom. Right information allows the mind to use it Thinking and seeing
to develop more wisdom.
Thinking and seeing are very similar in nature. When we
We go for retreats and listen to Dhamma talks from teachers think we get involved in our thoughts very easily, we identify
and we then use that information in our practice. That’s how with them and with our thinking.
we use wisdom to develop more wisdom. When we have right
This is because of two things. Firstly, because of habit: it’s our
information, we can think of things in the right way and then
habit to think, to become interested in what we are thinking
we can practice in the right way, and do the right things.
about, the storyline and the concepts. Secondly, because of
When we have some information that allows us to see things identification with the thinker.
in a more wholesome way, from a different point of view so
It’s the same with seeing: when we see, when we have our eyes
that we don’t develop aversion or get attracted or attached to
open, immediately our attention is with the concepts outside.
things, that’s how we develop our wisdom.
And it is the mind’s habit to take those as objects and to be
You hear this sort of information and as you practice you out there, rather than to be aware of the seeing (just as we are
attempt to inject right view; then you begin to realize that not aware of the thinking.)
when you see or hear something, there’s just seeing or
In the practice of being aware of thinking, you have to make
hearing, that it is just an experience. Someone who has not
yourself conscious that you’re thinking, you have to remind
heard this information will think, ‘I saw’ or ‘I heard.’ It’s a
yourself again and again, ‘Oh, thinking is happening, thinking
different point of view.

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is happening,’ until you are able to view thinking objectively think, to get lost in thought. It’s easy for the mind to get
and not identify with the thinker. sleepy and to conjure up images in the mind.

If you apply the same pattern to seeing and keep reminding You can experiment with both. Choose whatever gives you
yourself, ‘seeing is happening,’ you are able to step away from better mindfulness at any given time. What is always most
it a little bit. Remind yourself, ‘seeing is happening, seeing is important is the quality of the mind. You will learn to choose
happening,’ and you can stop identifying with the see-er. when it’s best to keep your eyes open and when it’s best to
close your eyes in order to be in states that are more
I always tell beginners not to watch thoughts continuously at
wholesome for your own mind.
first because we get swept away, we get sucked into the
thoughts. Recognize that there is thought, a thought has In daily life we don’t have the luxury of keeping our eyes
arisen, thinking is happening, make a note of it, ‘this is closed for long periods of time except when we sleep. If we
happening,’ and then come back to being conscious of yourself make it a practice to be conscious of seeing, then in daily life,
in another way. because our eyes are always open, this consciousness can
come back to help make us more aware during the day.
Initially you have to go back and forth, being aware of
thinking and then coming back to yourself, being aware of Are seeing and looking the same?
thinking and coming back to yourself, so as not to get lost in
Yogi: No.
the thoughts.
SUT: Looking, listening, and paying attention are the same
You can do the same with seeing, briefly try opening your eyes
kind of mind, the same type of movement of mind. They are
and then closing them again and then being aware, and then
active movements. The sense doors are different but the
opening and closing them again and then being aware, in
movement of the mind is the same, it’s an active attention.
order to become conscious of seeing. There is seeing and there
When the mind pays attention through the eye door, it’s
is not seeing, both are objects.
looking; when it pays attention through the ear door, it’s
When the eyes are open the mind tends to be slightly more listening; when it pays attention through the mind door, it’s
awake because there is one more sense consciousness. When paying attention.
there is one more sense consciousness, there’s one more
You can also be conscious of that movement of mind: the
object. When we have our eyes closed, it’s easy for the mind to
mind is listening now, the mind is looking now, the mind is

19
now paying attention. When you look, can you not also be wrong lens, when you look at something from the wrong point
conscious that the mind is doing that? That’s not difficult of view. Say somebody opens the door and it's noisy, and you
either is it? Seeing is passive, looking is active. You can be think, “Why is that person making noise?” That’s wrong view.
conscious of the difference. As long as the eyes are open we
If you think, “There’s a sound, I am conscious of it,” that’s
see, even without looking. Without listening we still hear.
right view.
Similarly, without paying too much attention we can remain
conscious. The literal translations of yoniso manasikāra and ayoniso
manasikāra are ‘taking it to heart in the right way’ and ‘taking
it to heart in the wrong way.’ When you take it to heart in the
right way, it leads to subsequent kusala minds, wholesome
states of mind. If you take it to heart in the wrong way, the
subsequent minds are akusala, unwholesome.

If you are experiencing pain, the attitude can be, ‘oh, this is an
experience,’ ‘this is happening.’ With this attitude you might
not develop so much aversion, you might not feel so much
pain. But if the attitude is, ‘I am in so much pain,’ then the
pain and the aversion are stronger.

For example when there is pain in the leg and then the pain
goes away, does the leg disappear as well? Why do we say
there is pain in the leg? Or that the leg is painful? If the leg is
painful, when the pain has gone the leg must also be gone!

Yoniso manasikāra Actually the leg is the leg and the pain is the pain, and they are
different. They are separate. Pain is a natural phenomenon. If
Have you all heard the words ‘right attitude’ or ‘wise
you sit in one position for a long time without moving, pain
attention’? In Pāli: yoniso manasikāra (wise attention), and
will come. Is that a problem? It’s just a natural process. If you
the opposite is ayoniso manasikāra. Ayoniso manasikāra is
don’t want to experience pain, just make yourself
when the mind pays attention to something through the
comfortable! But if you want to understand pain and also the
20
experience of pain, the experience of how the mind reacts to You will investigate the way the mind works, the functions of
pain or how the mind creates more pain for itself, then don’t the mind itself. Hopefully you won’t just do this here all day,
make yourself comfortable yet. Take the time to observe what but also when you go home.
is happening in the mind and body. This is the time to study
these things.

You can investigate this if you have the opportunity. For as Tension and defilements
long as you can tolerate the pain you might want to learn from
Throughout the day I want you to check whether you are
it. When the pain is there, what does the mind think? How
getting tense or whether you are relaxed. I want you to notice
does that thinking make the mind feel? How does the thinking
this. Any tension is an indication that you are developing
affect the feeling and vice versa? It becomes an experiment.
some defilement, either you are wanting something, disliking
When there is a little bit of pain, how does the mind think
something, or you are feeling confused about something. Fear,
about it? What does the mind feel about it? And then when
anxiety, or any kind of defilement bring tension to the mind,
the pain starts increasing, how does the mind think about it?
so check this often.
How does the mind’s attitude about it change? As it changes
you want to see how the mind changes with it. You want to see If you do find tension, check both the mind and the body. You
how a change in the thinking and state of mind—seeing things will notice that there is never tension only in the mind, it will
through this new lens—affects your experience of the physical. also be translated into tension in some part of the body. If you
consciously relax those tensions, it’s also a kind of meditation.
This is why meditation is very interesting, because you are
learning about yourself. You want to know more about
yourself.
Meditation should be fun!
If we truly want happiness, we need to have understanding.
When there is no true understanding, happiness is not You’re going to be practicing all day long, so please don’t do
completely ours. It is something incidental or coincidental— anything that makes you tired or stressed out. Don’t stress
sometimes we are happy and sometimes we aren’t. We don’t yourself out with meditation! We need to be interested in
have full control of it. When you truly understand then you meditation so that we want to meditate, rather than feel that
are in control of it. it’s something fearful or difficult, or that we have an exam to
pass. It’s nothing like that.

21
There are no bells on this retreat, but when there are bells on
a retreat how do you feel when the bell rings? Do you feel, ‘Oh
yeah! Let’s go and sit.’ Or do you feel, ‘Oh… I have to walk
now…’ or, ‘I have to sit now…’ Meditation should be a source
of joy. We should find it interesting and joyful. It should be an
exploration, it should be fun. Meditation must be like this!

22
C HAPTER 2

Selected Q&A
by theme

Whatever we know is fun, just know it

because it’s important to know. If we
develop this habit of knowing whatever
comes up and knowing that we’re
knowing, it becomes easier to know in
daily life.
S ECTION 1 Right attitude. If we want only what is good and we don’t
want anything bad in our experience then it’s not really fair, is
Acceptance it? That’s a defilement, wanting only what’s good. We grasp
what we think is good, we push away what we think is not
good. When we see that something is not good, don’t push it
away—

[in English] ‘This is not good’, but the mind is not angry. It
should be like this.

Normally the mind just immediately pushes away what it

Yogi: This afternoon I was looking at the quality of the finds not good.
awareness and I found it to be a little bit lazy, a little bit
sluggish. Should I just accept that? Or is there a way of Yogi: So this is an opportunity to learn acceptance?
energizing?
SUT: Right. Some of us can’t accept when the mind is
grasping, we don’t want the mind to grasp. We can’t accept it
when the mind is aversive, we don’t want the mind to be
SUT: Firstly, yes, you need to just accept it. And then you aversive. My teacher used to say, “Do not grasp and do not
need to check why it is like that. Why is it sluggish? What is push away.” And I couldn’t understand it at that age because
the mind thinking? What’s the attitude towards the practice? in my experience the mind either liked something or didn’t
Does the mind understand how to be aware? What is it doing? like something. I couldn’t think of anything in between.
The Buddha said, when the mind is in a good state, know it’s When I understood more then I realized that it’s possible to
in a good state, when the mind in a bad state, know it’s in a understand what’s going on and remain neutral.
bad state. He didn’t say try to change the state. He said, Understanding that it’s pleasant or unpleasant. And I
recognize the state. understood that it’s the middle way that allows us to be
neutral.
We’re not trying to control the experience, or change it, we’re
just trying to know the experience. But mostly if we judge it, Grasping is one extreme, resistance is the other extreme. How
and say this is not a good state, then we want to change it. do we walk the centre line? There’s only wisdom. Wisdom
Then dosa is there.
24
knows what is pleasant and what is not pleasant and does not
resist or attach. It knows both but is able to remain in the
centre.

__________________________________________

Yogi: Do we need to accept the unawareness of the

unawareness? Do we need some understanding of the fact
that there is unawareness of unawareness? That there is
delusion about delusion? And that we must accept that?

SUT: Yes, that is right. We must know that unawareness of

unawareness happens. Accepting that is a kind of wisdom. In
a sense it is clear comprehension, just knowing that this is
how it is. Understanding is very different from just seeing
something or observing something. We need to recognize
when we understand things, and we need to recognize the
understanding that accompanies our observations.

We want to recognize these wisdoms. When we do a job and

become skillful at it, even something like housework, we then
have an understanding of how to do that job well. That’s
understanding, that’s wisdom. It’s the same in meditation.

25
S ECTION 2 Possibly you have a personality which likes freedom, so when
you are in an informal environment, when you are free to do
Agitation as you wish, awareness comes easily to you. But when you are
put in a form, when this is the form that meditation should
take, trying to sit at home, or when I come back from certain
time then and I have to go back to the meditation hall. So the
feeling that I ‘have to’ meditate comes back rather than what
you were doing at a certain time and you are just being aware.
It’s a wrong thought.

In the book "Don't look down on the defilements, they will

Yogi: Yesterday we went on that forest walk I was very easily
laugh at you", there is a cartoon with all these thoughts 'I
mindful. But when we came back I found a sort of agitation
should do this', 'must do this', 'have to do this' and then there
for all evening. And I often find at home when I do meditate,
is a one-ton stone on his head. So the attention of thinking it
in the evenings I do get a lot of agitation in meditation and it
has to be some way.
stops me. The trouble is I know you’re going to say, 'watch the
agitation,' but that’s really hard when you’re agitated. Is there Yogi: Yes, that's helpful, if I turn around and look I do like
anything that I can do? freedom.

SUT: So that’s why the mind is becoming agitated. So maybe

you can change your posture when you meditate (Laughter).
SUT: Agitation is interesting. Attitude is key. It’s difficult to be
This formal posture, when we put our hands together, cross
aware in the way we want to be aware when agitated. You
our legs and sit up straight, it feels like a log sometimes. Some
must remember that agitation is also a natural state of mind.
yogis are like fully padded up and after that may be they are
What is getting in the way is that you don’t like it, you don’t
sleepy. (Laughter)
want to be agitated. The second thing is to actually have
interest in the actual state of agitation, 'what is agitation like?' The moment that the mind takes it seriously it starts getting
Instead of watching it to make it go away, allow it to be here. tense. Agitation comes with that.
So long as it’s there you can investigate the nature of
agitation. When it’s not there you can’t investigate the nature Yogi: I recognize that now.
of agitation.
26
S ECTION 3 _________________________________________

Anger Yogi: Although I have experienced looking at anger and

looking at aversion and seeing them subside, I don’t
understand. I’ve experienced it but I don’t understand it.

SUT: We have to watch anger, or whatever it may be, many,

many times. We have to investigate everything many, many
times, and one of those times when the mind is in the right
Yogi: If someone is insulting you, you shouldn’t get angry? mood, when there’s no greed or aversion in the mind, and
we’re just investigating naturally, one of those times
something will be understood. But it takes repeated practice.
SUT: Why suffer twice? They insult me and I get angry and Generally at those times when understanding arises, the mind
make myself suffer. Why? is strong, it’s sort of at its best, there’s been continuous
awareness, there is no craving to understand something, there
My teacher used to say, “When I am upset, hurt, angry, the
is no aversion towards the experience, there is full interest in
fault lies within myself.” From then on I would always ask
the experience. It comes when you least expect it. And then
myself when I got angry, “Why am I getting angry? What is it
prior to that experience we’ve probably been watching
that I want? Somebody else is doing something wrong. Why
whatever it is over and over again, whether it’s anger or
am I getting upset?” Why not let that person suffer if they are
something else.
the one doing something wrong?
Let’s say we understood something about anger eventually, we
Anger doesn’t understand reason. Anger doesn’t understand
may have, prior to that, investigated anger many times,
whether it is beneficial or not, whether it is necessary or not.
investigated it in many ways, understanding how anger arises,
Anger just wants to be angry. There is a phrase in Palī that
not as in the object outside that causes the anger, but in the
says dosa knows no cause and no effect. Dosa does not
mind, the ideas in the mind. Maybe it’s the preconceived ideas
understand cause and dosa does not understand effect, and
we have, something that we want, that we think things should
the same can be said for lobha.
be done a certain way. These things lead to us feeling anger
27
about something and then how the anger feeds itself. These When people want to be angry they always try to get people to
are things that we may have discovered on the way. Different agree with them, to agree that there is a reason to get angry
little things that finally culminate in one huge understanding. about whatever it is. If someone is being righteous about their
anger, as if there’s a reason to be angry, that’s dangerous
There are many different points of view from which we can
because the mind is preparing to blow up real big! [Laughter]
understand.
Because if it finds a good enough reason and someone agrees
Is it necessary to get angry? [Laughter] with it, then it’s going to let itself go.

So that’s a way of checking. If we look at anger every time it Once the mind starts to justify its anger, and the mind says
arises, we might begin to see whether it’s necessary or not. I ‘you should be angry about this, you can use anger, you can
think there are some people who think it’s necessary. channel anger in a good way’, and all that sort of thing, you
know it’s getting prepared to get angry. It’s just one of its
I used to think so. At one time I would shout at someone and cunning strategies.
that would be the end of it, so I thought, ‘Oh, pretty useful.’ I
thought that was a good thing to do. It was much later in life,
after I kept using anger, that I realized that sometimes it leads
to other trouble. It doesn’t end there. And then if you meet
someone with more anger than you then it will lead to even
bigger trouble.

When I’d been observing the mind for a long time I realized
that there was nothing about anger that was beneficial in any
way, I would be talking to my sister-in-law and she was
annoyed with someone she would say—it literally sounds like
this in Burmese—“Isn’t it good to be angry about that?” in the
sense that it was something you should be angry about. And I
kept saying to her, there’s nothing you should ever get angry
about. There’s nothing that is worth being angry about. And
_________________________________________
she couldn’t accept it.

28
Yogi: The mind does have genuinely to get to know that it is was very good and I decided, “Okay, I’ll go and I’ll be
not useful. There’s no short cut. You can’t impose a kind of mindful.”
idea of a moral base. That would get in the way of it. That
And I went, I was mindful the whole way. Everything—the
seems really tricky because I think personally my anger
journey there, taking the crowded buses in Burma, getting
actually has to come out more. I don’t mean I want to put it on
there, queuing to get the tickets, hot, smelly people, the hot,
people but I think that I suppress it too quickly all the time.
dirty stadium, people around making noise, watching the
match, and while they were boxing what I was feeling, whose
side I was taking! [Laughter]
SUT: Even when we suppress our outward anger, the anger
remains inside. That’s the anger that we have to observe. It’s And I found it really exhausting. Then the match had a break.
not skilful to allow anger get to words or action but sometimes In the two or three-minute break they give to the boxers, I was
we can’t help it, it gets to words or action without our so tired and the mind went inside, I started to watch myself,
knowledge. When it gets to that, if you’re still able to and I forgot that I was in the stadium. And when they rang the
remember to be aware, either during or after, it helps us to bell the mind said, ‘this place is not for you’. And then it
learn. But if you have a lot of insight there’s a lot of became natural, I didn’t go to boxing matches after that.
observation that can go on without actually causing any harm
Yogi: And it was a good thing to do, to do the experiment?
outside.
SUT: Yes, because I was able to bring my awareness. These
Yogi: I think I don’t identify it as anger.
are dangerous experiments.
SUT: The longer you’ve been practicing, the more wisdom and
awareness there is, and the more you can learn from what you
observe. What we want to avoid is intellectually trying to
suppress it in the mind. This is what we don’t want to do, so
that we can investigate it and understand its nature.

There was a time I wanted to do something, I let the greed

have its way, I wanted to go see a boxing match. [Laughter] I
hadn’t seen one for a long time. At that time, the awareness

29
S ECTION 4

As much as you do, as In meditation there is no luck. [Laughter] One monk asked
me, “So long as you put in hard work and you just meditate
much as you get and meditate, won’t you just hit nibbāna one day?” And I said,
“No, you don’t get to nibbāna by accident, it must come
together, and then when the conditions are complete the right
effect will happen.”

[in English] Cause and effect.

Yogi: It’s a bit like when Sayadaw talked about the nose and Nature is so fair. Only when you reach the level you need to,
the smelling and how he went running around saying, “Ah, you will get what you get from that level.
the nose smells!” There was this ‘aha!’ experience this
__________________________________________
morning: this idea of waiting. I mean, you can read in a book,
“Wait, be patient.” But when you smell the soap and you Yogi: In this day and age we have good teachers and also the
suddenly realize, “Ah! That’s what waiting is.” Buddhist scriptures. Why is it so difficult for people to attain
anything in Buddhism? I’m not even talking about becoming
an arahant, just obtaining peaceful states of mind.
SUT: You know gold? Whether it’s a little speck of gold or a
large block of gold—
SUT: The defilements are strong and our practices are weak.
[in English] Small gold also good. Big gold also good.
Yogi: But we have so many teachings out there, so many
If you collect little bits of gold — and it’s those little bits that
teachers…
we’re collecting. My teacher used to say, if you get a speck or
two a day, it’s fine. And sometimes we say, “Oh even a speck SUT: There’s nothing wrong with the teachings, it’s the person
or two is difficult.” Yes, but it’s enough. who practices.

And then, initially if we’re not skilful of course we can’t get too Yogi: But shouldn’t that make it easier for us?
much gold.
30
SUT: No. It just depends on your practice. First we have to It’s over. All the seniors are gone. Only the rest of us are left.
find the suitable practice for us. Then we have to do it Defilements are strong and we don’t practice all the time.
dedicatedly. Persistently. Consistently.
Sometimes I don’t like to talk like this to the yogis, because it
You cannot underestimate the value of persistence and is depressing. You can get depressed if you think in this way.
dedication. Because the mind arises and passes away that You mustn’t think of it this way.
persistence and dedication is absolutely necessary to keep the
Yogi: You mentioned the disciples in the time of the Buddha
momentum. But the power of the defilements, the legacy of
and how they just had to go to the Buddha, listen to a talk or
the defilements is so strong in the mind that as the minds
something like that, and then they would become enlightened.
arise and pass away, the legacy that keeps on getting passed
on from mind to mind is the legacy of the strong power of the SUT: If we had invested, we would already have met the
defilements. We just try to build on that one tiny bit of Buddha and not be here now. I mean, if we had worked hard.
wholesomeness one piece at a time.
When the Buddha was alive we might have been a nest of
One day, just one day, if you can manage a whole day where, worms. You know, the Buddha said one day when he saw a
when you look back, the balance of wholesome mind states nest of worms, “At the end of my sāsana they will just be
during that day was greater than the balance of unwholesome becoming human.”
states—see the difference in what you feel.
__________________________________________
Yogi: It is depressing if nothing happens when you’re
practicing. Yogi: But sometimes it seems that the mind doesn’t like to be
ahead, so it likes to go back to suffering.
SUT: We will get as much as we put in. Input and output!
What I feel is that I’ve shot myself into a good space and now I
In the Buddha’s time, the Buddha was a perfect teacher, and need to be patient with it rather than going out and doing
everybody that he was destined to meet had all made wishes something on purpose to, what I call, ‘make myself suffer’,
to fulfill their perfections, so when they got to the Buddha, it because then the suffering is the object and then that’s coarse,
was like that. They had already put in a lot of work. obvious, rather then these more subtle states of mind. Like
being in a good space, being in the zone.
The age after the Buddha is a decaying age, it’s getting worse
and worse. There’s nobody that good any more. They’re gone.

31
SUT: You are exactly right. What we do need is steadiness. the work and we get what we deserve. We can’t wish for more.
This patience is to allow ourselves to just be with it, as it is, Craving always wants more, it thinks it should be something
every moment—boring or interesting. Just allow it to be like else, it thinks it should be better. Wisdom knows that the
that. And then as you go on, it will expand, it will sharpen, it cause is what we can work with, the effects are beyond our
will grow. That patience is primary. control, so it just works at being patient and doing the work.

Just now, you used the word ‘get ahead’, there is no need to [in English] As much as you do, as much as you get already.
get ahead. There is no need to get anywhere. So long as you
are working steadily you can’t not move ahead. You will keep
moving, it is only that you cannot perhaps move as much as
you would like. But so long as you keep working the
movement will continue, so you’re always getting ahead.

The work brings its own result, we don’t have to think about
what’s going to come or what it should be. We just have to do

32
S ECTION 5

Awareness + wisdom, But if you’re not proficient in something, when your natural
intelligence is not inclined to that thing—say somebody
Investigation, asking doesn’t understand computers and how they work—no matter
how many times you get to it, you just can’t get the logic of it.
questions, interest This practice of awareness is a practice of marrying awareness
with wisdom. There must be wisdom to guide the awareness,
we can’t just blindly be conscious and not really know what
the purpose is. When we are just aware continuously, what we
Yogi: I think I have been asking myself ‘how does the mind do get is samādhi. That’s a natural cause and effect
feel about this object?’ for example and expecting an answer. I relationship. If you are continuously aware samādhi will arise,
think you’re just telling me that the question is the more but further wisdom may not arise.
important thing, and just to accept how the mind feels about
that. __________________________________________

Yogi: When a person becomes aware and she has been

practicing every day, does it have an effect on the body? Does
SUT: The question is to bring in interest. the physical body feel light?
[in English] Not for answer.

Some minds have a propensity naturally to be inclined to SUT: Yes. It’s not the body, it’s not physical, it’s mental. The
think more, to question more. We’re all naturally intelligent in mind is feeling light. During the day, we are mostly aware of
different ways. You’ll notice that whatever your mind has physical things because it’s easier, remember to ask yourself,
more interest in, whatever your mind is more inclined to, you “How is the mind? How am I feeling? Am I aware now?”
just have to do it once or twice and your mind will start
innovating. It will find ways to do it better, more quickly, [in English] Are you sure? [Laughter]
more efficiently, more beautifully. The mind always does that
I don’t want you to answer the question, just ask the question
and that’s a natural process of mind, and the same thing
and allow the mind to find the answer naturally. When the
happens with meditation.
33
mind asks a question, the attention of the mind is already If it starts to become slightly unwholesome subtle tensions
brought to the answer. For example, if I ask you now, “What start to build in the mind… there’s interest, but if you start
do I look like?” then you’ll all look at me, so the question wanting too much to know what’s happening or wanting too
suggests the answer but you don’t have to look for it. The much to get an answer you can feel the tension. The state of
mind will. mind loses its stability or balance. You won’t feel peaceful any
more, you’ll feel agitation or tension.
If you think of your ear now, instantly your attention is there.
Which ear? [Laughter] _______________________________________

If you think of your feet, you are suddenly with the feet, Yogi: When is it a papañca situation and when is it an
naturally. So the mind’s attention is always at what or where investigation situation? Sometimes you think you’re
it’s thinking about. That’s why you don’t need a lot of energy investigating whatever is going on and then it becomes a
to know something, you just need to incline. When you papañca situation.
understand the way the mind works then you can use the
mind. It’s because we don’t understand the mind that we use
so much energy to try to do things with it. SUT: When there’s not enough wisdom it can become
papañca.
__________________________________________
Another Yogi: What’s papañca?
Yogi: When does interest become the movement of mind
towards the pleasure? Towards desire or aversion? How do SUT: Like you said, when we go into the ‘because of, because
you talk about the difference between interest and attraction? of, because of’, just thinking about it, that’s papañca.

There was somebody who had a lot depression and tried a lot
of ways to work with the depression. One of the ways she used
SUT: It’s very easy, you can tell by your feelings whether it’s
was to ask the question ‘why is the mind depressed?’ The first
just interest or whether it’s starting to veer towards
time she heard of this way of working she tried it very simply
attachment. And when whatever you’re feeling, whatever the
and it worked. She actually got an answer. And for a while she
mind is doing is wholesome, there is a particular feeling which
was free of the depression.
is associated with wholesome activity in the mind.

34
Later, when she became depressed again she tried to use it, SUT: Sometimes it’s not yet worth asking a question.
and now she had an expectation, she thought ‘if I ask the Sometimes you can just let yourself observe until you have
question I’m going to get the answer and I’m going to be free’, enough information. Awareness on its own is already
and it didn’t work. All sorts of wrong answers came up. gathering information. When you have enough information
that it prompts some sort of curiosity, then you can ask a
_______________________________________
question.

Sometimes we don’t have enough information. We haven’t

finished, we haven’t done much observing and yet we ask a
question. Then all you have is a question. The question is
always to help us to investigate, like a scientist, not to get an
answer. It’s like research, you don’t know where the answer
will come from, so there’s many ways to look.

The asking of the question, when it’s some area that we are
expert in, when you’re doing that work questions come
naturally to your mind, don’t they? Like, how can I organize
this better? For cooking, when it tastes like this, how can I fix
it? Whenever something new comes up, the questions come
because you have enough knowledge about that subject to ask
an intelligent question. And that’s the way it is in meditation.
First we need to have a body of knowledge, so that we have
enough background to ask a question about how to go about
it.

And sometimes just from listening to everyone, reading the

Yogi: I actually start with mettā meditation, and then when Dhamma, and all sorts of things, we become curious about
my mind is a little calm I start to ask questions. Is this all something.
right?

35
The Buddha asked questions, is the rūpa dukkha or sukha? there’s a situation, the mind asks a question naturally and
Atta or anatta? Things like that. Not for us to ask right now. finds the answer. Years of practice.
[Laughter] Those are examples.
The first time my teacher did that was to ask me, “Why is
Yogi: I asked questions about bodily pain. If I have a pain there rising and falling?” I could think of that theoretically
somewhere I just ask, “Why? What is it?” Or something like because ‘I’m breathing’. I knew experientially that because I
that. breathed there was rising and falling. Then my teacher asked,
“Why is there breathing?” And I couldn’t answer that. It
SUT: And what happens?
wasn’t in my experience, I didn’t know. I tried to give answers
Yogi: After some time it goes. out of the top of my head, “This is natural.” “Because you want
to live.” But it wasn’t experiential and my teacher didn’t
SUT: Just keep investigating, watching, asking. accept them. So I went and started trying, trying. It took me a
week.
There’s also probably the pressure when you’re meditating
during the day, you think, ‘Oh, we’re going to have the I watched and watched and looked and tried to find the
interview, what shall I talk about?’ [Laughter] Everybody answer, but I couldn’t. Finally I said, “Okay, never mind, one
thinks more closely so they can ask something. week.” Then as I was breathing suddenly the answer came,
there was the wanting to breathe. I saw it so clearly. The
__________________________________________
intention. So one week of investigation to see that because
Yogi: In the story of the pendulum, did Sayadaw asked only there is the desire to breathe, breathing is happening.
one question? “How can the mind be so peaceful and suddenly
__________________________________________
become so angry?”
Yogi: I am sitting with a lot of unpleasantness. And so I ask
Interpreter: Not he actually, the mind asked it. The mind just
the question, what is this? And there is no answer, just
did it all by itself. It was just the right conditions at the right
unpleasantness. It’s partly aversion, but I just have to keep
time.
sitting with it. That’s all I can do. There’s nothing else.
SUT: Yes, while I was practicing of course I had asked
questions in my practice previously. I asked questions, tried to
investigate, but at some point it happens naturally. One day

36
SUT: Now you are gathering data. When there is enough data
the mind will come to its own conclusions. The question is
always to generate interest, not to get an answer. We only ask
the question to enable us to observe, we don’t ask the question
to get the answer.

Yogi: How often do you ask the question?

SUT: You have to use your own experience and all your own
understanding, everything you know about life psychology,
the Buddha-Dhamma, whatever, to ask the right questions.
When there is interest you may not even need to ask a
question, because the mind is interested. When the mind feels
dull, disinterested, sleepy, bored, when it feels oppressed and
so on, then you know wisdom is weak, you might want to look
at the arsenal of wisdom you have and check which is the
necessary one or ones at that time.

If you are interested in meditation, the Dhamma, its benefits

and all, you’ve got all this experience in your life through the
Dhamma, then the mind will naturally seek to find its way.

Sometimes my teacher would come into the guided

meditation sessions, he would just ask one question and leave.
[Laughter] I was left there struggling on my own with the
question. Of course my teacher didn’t really mean for us to
think about it, rather to investigate that idea or whatever he
had introduced.

37
S ECTION 6 have wisdom or not sometimes seems incidental. Some people
naturally have more, some people have less.
Awareness and No Awareness The less wisdom we have, the more mistakes we make in life.
There are people who have good intentions but they are
chaotic so they don’t have much awareness and they make
more mistakes. It’s not that there is an absolute absence of
awareness.

Yogi: It seems that in the absence of awareness life still goes

on. [Laughter]

SUT: [in English] Yes!

Yogi: My question is, when there is no awareness, whatever

happens—namely the actions, non-actions, behaviour,
interactions with the environment—is that all mechanical
because there is no awareness? Can Sayadaw say something
on what really happens when there is no awareness?

SUT: When there is no conscious awareness it’s not that there

is no awareness. Throughout our life we cannot not have
When there is a lack of awareness, particularly of wisdom at a
awareness. If we didn’t have awareness we wouldn’t know
very gross level, life can get very bad. People kill other people,
how to walk. So there is awareness in every moment of life,
people end up committing serious crimes. The consequences
but it’s not strong and it’s not conscious.
can be very severe. The defilements, when they arise, can go
Because it’s not strong and it’s not conscious, and there is no unchecked and become very extreme. That’s a possible
conscious continuity or acknowledgement of it, whether we consequence of having less awareness, and even less wisdom.

38
There was an incident in Burma. This man would have chilli SUT: You can say attention, it’s not sammā sati but micchā,
every day with his food and one day there was no chilli, and he wrong attention. It’s like going fishing. People who fish or
was so angry he got up, took a piece of firewood and hit his hunt are full of awareness, but it’s the wrong motivation for
wife over the head and she died. Just because of chilli… being aware.

SUT: [in English] No awareness! When I was practicing in lay life and the awareness, samādhi,
wisdom, concentration, and all that got better, one day a
At that time the mind was completely blinded so there was no
memory came back to me of a time when I was on drugs.
control. Ordinarily when we’re walking around there’s some
awareness, we are not completely without it. For example, we I remembered that episode, everything I had said, what I had
might walk along lost in thought, but we still walk straight, we thought, the resentment, everything that had happened in the
don’t fall down. Sometimes we might kick a brick and fall mind. The attitudes, views at that time, how I had lied to my
over, but not all the time. father, the trickery… I saw everything. I remembered it all
clearly. But I also saw clearly that in that state at that time I
All the functions of mind know how to do their own work.
did not have any awareness. I just did what I did. I was
Awareness, perception, all that is at work and it does its own
intoxicated.
work. As much as it is able it will allow us to function
normally. In that state of intoxication there was no self-reflection. I
thought about it, I was so intoxicated at that time that I didn’t
Yogi: So there’s some measure of awareness…
even know myself, how could I remember everything I had
SUT: Kusala (wholesome, skilful) minds have awareness, experienced? And it was because saññā (perception) had
wisdom minds have awareness. Akusala (unwholesome, done its work. It retains everything, it’s just whether we are
unskilful) minds do not have awareness. able to access it or not.

Unskilful minds don’t have awareness as a concomitant. All __________________________________________

skilful minds have awareness as a concomitant.
Yogi: My understanding is that either there is mindfulness or
Yogi: But say animals, you know when you watch a cat there is no mindfulness. There are no degrees of mindfulness,
watching a mouse, timing its jump, there’s awareness. no halfway measures. This is my interpretation, and I’m
seeking clarification on that. Also, how to recognize the
distinction between mindfulness and no mindfulness?
39
SUT: Theoretically, mindfulness is sati. Sati is a cetasika, a awareness, the view through which the awareness works, is
mental condition, a mental concomitant, it’s a quality. Every present or not differs in people. Someone who has been
mind is made up of different qualities, cetasikas, and in every exposed to the Buddha-Dhamma would have that view
wholesome mind that arises sati will be present. through which they see things with awareness, that view is
paññā, wisdom. Whereas somebody who was not exposed to
If you think of mindfulness in this way, sati is always present
the Buddha-Dhamma might have awareness of themselves,
in a wholesome mind. In an unwholesome mind, sati is not
but the view would be quite a different view.
present. It is also only in a mind that has sati, therefore a
kusala mind, that ñāṇa (wisdom) can also become a For example, in Malaysia I asked, do you know when a car
concomitant. So a wisdom quality in the mind can only be in a passes by? If you know the car has passed by, does that mean
mind if sati is also present. you have awareness? Yes, there is awareness, but what kind of
awareness? The quality differs. Anybody would know that a
We are born with either with three roots or two roots. The
car has passed by (or some other experience) but how do we
three roots are non-greed, non-hatred and non-delusion. It is
know that we have experienced something? It’s through the
possible for someone to be born without the third root, ‘non-
sense doors.
delusion’. In this case that person cannot develop great
wisdom in this life. But if you’re born with all three roots, and We see, hear, and feel. After then we give meaning, we
generally everybody in this kind of situation is, then sati will interpret. Then we name the experience. Yes? Everybody has
be present in the mind, because that person has the non- this kind of awareness. They get to the point of giving
delusion factor. meaning, so they know their experience. That is normal
awareness.
We call wisdom and sati latent factors, latent conditions of the
mind, but you don’t know to what degree they are developed But someone who has been exposed to the Buddha-Dhamma
in each mind. For some people they might be quite developed, also knows the functions of the mind, that this is what the
for others not so developed. It’s in this life when we practice mind has done, what it has experienced. The mind has
that we can develop those qualities, so that they become more experienced seeing, hearing, and the mind has given it
present conditions in the mind. meaning. That’s the difference: the view and the wisdom, the
understanding.
You asked about mindfulness being present or not. Everybody
has some awareness. Everybody. However, whether wisdom, First we need the theoretical knowledge and the
which is the framework of understanding that supports the understanding that every experience is a combination of two
40
parts, the object and the mind, the known and the knowing. a day. There are those degrees of mindfulness. In the
When you have that understanding and you practice then you beginning, we just try to use as much awareness as we have,
see an experience as what is being known and what is and then we take the knowledge that we have learned from
knowing. These two come together and work to give you the books and teachers, and we try to be mindful with it.
experience of awareness.
As we practice mindfulness, our understanding grows, our
Otherwise, we’re simply aware of the experience and its own understanding about what we’re experiencing, about how
meaning, that we have experienced something without
understanding the process that leads to that experience.

Yogi: Do these sense doors have any role to play in the

coming-about of that awareness? Or is that awareness, that
wisdom, quite independent of the role that the sense doors
play?

SUT: All the various sense inputs give rise to consciousness,

what we call eye consciousness, ear consciousness, et cetera,
just bare consciousness of the experience. But not recognition
of the experience, what we would call sati.

Whenever there’s sense contact, a consciousness arises, a

sense consciousness is already known. It’s when we become
conscious and recognize that this consciousness of seeing or
hearing or whatever has arisen that sati happens, that’s what we’re practicing and how our practice affects our experience,
we are calling sati, and that is what we want to develop. That and so on. When these understandings grow, they become
is weak in us, we don’t have this recognition of our experience part of the support for our mindfulness.
as it happens.
And then when there’s some of our own developed wisdom
There are degrees of mindfulness, as in the strength of your supporting our awareness, you can say that the awareness is
mindfulness, how present your mindfulness is, how much it stronger. The process continues, you continue to be aware in
manifests in your mind, how much more or less you have it in that way, the momentum grows, and you learn more lessons.

41
These lessons then become part of your developed wisdom,
which makes the awareness stronger. So there’s this
momentum that carries itself over and over again.

If you sustain your practice over a long period of time some of

this developed wisdom becomes really innate, it becomes your
innate wisdom, and then you’ll notice that whenever you have
awareness, all those things that you understood yourself have
become the lenses through which the awareness sees. You no
longer have to call them up or remind yourself; they are the
way that you see things.

42
S ECTION 7 some objects or the other will become more significant than
others before they become less. So choiceless just means that
Choiceless Awareness you personally don’t make a choice. But naturally something
does become chosen, something does become known more
clearly than something else but you wouldn’t call it primary or
that it wasn’t equal or something like that. It’s just that you
know it and then you know something else and then maybe
you know the same thing again.

For example if we chose to start by putting our attention to

the breath, that’s our choice. And then you might notice some
Yogi: My approach to practice is a choiceless awareness, I’m
sensation on your arm and that is choiceless, but now that has
wondering whether I’m supposed to have objects or not
become significant.
supposed to have objects. I can’t imagine not having objects.
Yogi: So it doesn’t need to be sustainable over time. It could
be changing really really fast. And then if it’s maybe more
SUT: There is always object, it’s impossible for there not to be settled then it’s possibly not changing this fast?
an object. So long as there is mind, there is an object that the
SUT: That’s right. It doesn’t matter whether it’s changing fast
mind is paired with.
or slow or it doesn’t change for a long time. You just know
__________________________________________ that. And if you know that it’s changing, especially when it’s
changing, if you recognize that it’s changing. Even if we just
Yogi: When you have a primary object, like the breath or
move, physically if you move, there is change already.
something, everything else becomes secondary, there’s
already a choice there. So it’s not choiceless awareness.
Choiceless awareness is that everything is equal.

SUT: Choiceless awareness is only equal in the sense that all

objects are allowed to become significant but in any moment

43
S ECTION 8 there is no sound, but that’s also an object, because you know
it.
Concepts and Reality Once I was somewhere in Burma and at night in that area
there were a lot of cicadas, you know these loud, burring
sounds, and they just filled the air, and they don’t stop. And
that was the loudest thing, the most significant, so the mind
was just aware of that. Aware that this is the object, this is a
sound.

And I was paying attention for quite a long time, and then the
Yogi: I was thinking about when I’m sitting sometimes I’m not mind noticed that besides the sounds of the cicadas, the rest
looking outside but I can still see the lights, the texture. I’m of the atmosphere was silent. So there was not only the sound
not looking at objects just interested in how the seeing is of them but there was also the silence beyond them, and I
taking place. And the same with hearing, sometimes not could know both at the same time. So then there’s the
hearing any particular sounds, just almost the silence, the lack knowing of that… there’s not only two objects but there’s two
of sound. Does greed and tension also come at the same time minds that are each recognizing a separate object.
as a sense of being outside of the sense door?
Generally we are so attracted to the strong object, the gross
object, so when there’s pain, we know there’s pain. When
there’s no pain, we think there’s no sensation but actually that
SUT: Yes, concepts… more concepts. The feeling of being
is something too. That’s why sometimes to know that
outside means the mind is paying more attention to the
something is an object you have to understand that it’s being
concepts rather than to the reality.
known, and therefore it’s an object. If you know it… That
There are six types of concepts: direction, shape, colour, time, comes from understanding the subtle is also known although
place, and name. So when we think of something as associated it seems like you’re knowing nothing.
with somebody, a person, the concept is already there, a
Reality is always paired with the concept that we lay over it,
name. That’s why when I say object, I say ‘that which is being
but the reality of the concepts that we usually know has to be
known’, that’s why you can know a sound, or you can know
understood. It has to be understood that the reality is present
with the concept. So reality is the object of wisdom.
44
On its own, reality is abstract, so it’s very hard to get a grip, Greed also knows when something comes and goes—we see
that’s why you can only understand reality, you cannot see it, some food disappear and we want more! We can also see the
or experience it. You can understand, you can understand the concept.
principle because it’s abstract, but when you want to get a feel
__________________________________________
of what it might be like, Venerable U Jotika has this
metaphor: he says the concept (and for us our experience of Yogi: As we see something, the moment we notice that there’s
reality is always through the concept) is the hook, when you a colour or a shape or anything, I mean it happens so fast,
know the concept, the reality is already there with it, it’s just before you know what, you’re looking.
for us to realize what the reality is.
Interpreter: Yes, the concept’s already there.
For example, when there is sound, sound by its nature is
Paramattha, it’s a reality, but we only know the concept of the Yogi: Yes, so we have to be really watchful of that, seeing
sound, we don’t know the reality of what the sound is, its becomes looking before you know what.
characteristics, nature, and so on. We don’t know the reality,
we know the concept.
SUT: Like in everything else, we can’t force the mind to see
It’s the same with when we use the words arising and passing
the reality of the sense that you are observing. So initially you
away when something appears and disappears, we see the
can just allow yourself to recognize that much, and then as the
concept of it but we don’t understand the reality that things
awareness and everything gets better, then at some point the
are impermanent. It doesn’t hit us, we don’t realize it just
mind will realize what sight is, the reality of sight, apart from
because we see something come and go, we see the concept,
the concept of it.
but that doesn’t mean we understand impermanence.
If we can know the mind that is knowing, if we have that, then
Very often yogis try to look for impermanence, they try to see
because the mind that is knowing is always simultaneously
things arising and disappearing because they think that will
paired with the object that it knows, if we then have a handle
help them to realize impermanence. But seeing something
on that, we come closer to what just the object is.
arises and passes away is just an experience—conceptually
you’ve seen something but it may or may not give rise to an Say we try to remove colour, shape, distance, all these things
understanding into the nature of impermanence. from sight–what would be left behind?

45
Yogi: Sight, I suppose? The moment you feel, we perceive, remember to notice that we see before then going to the
almost instantaneously then it goes into… concept.

SUT: But concept is not a problem. It is okay to know a Although it is necessary to look at the concept, we need it for
concept, you can know that the mind is knowing a concept. survival and so on, but you recognize the seeing first, the
You must recognize what is creating concepts: perception is. sense of seeing. That’s what the Buddha means by appamāda,
That’s again seeing the mind at work. So you need to not forgetting Nature, that means not forgetting reality. We
recognize that, rather than fight it. There are very few people never forget concepts, it’s automatic.
who actually recognize perception is at work.

__________________________________________

Yogi : For me at this point of the practice, to build continuity

has to do with consciously preferring experience to concepts.
That the big draw is to go into conceptual thinking. And the
awareness is in the experience. And so to keep making that…

SUT: That’s fine. The natural tendency of the mind is to go

into the concepts because of delusion. Because that is the
defilement that knows concepts. Defilements believe in
concepts and delusion believes in concepts. But as we
continue practicing the mind begins to realize the experience
itself, the reality of the experience, which is paired with the
concept, and once you begin to see that bit, you have to direct There are three sets, three kinds of objects and three kinds of
your mind towards it, because the natural tendency is to go to minds. Defilement takes concept as its object. Wisdom mind
the delusions, concepts. So reminding is good. takes reality as its object, vipassanā wisdom sees
reality,  Paramattha. And the magga ñāṇa and the phala
We see, but the tendency is to immediately see the person, the ñāṇa takes nibbāna as object.
wall, the chairs. Now we see, we also see the concept but we

46
The mind always takes the object that matches its qualities. If would we choose to look at? Wisdom understands that seeing
there is a lot of concept that the mind is taking, then more is happening. Greed only sees what it wants to look at. The
delusion and defilements are likely to arise in the mind. When greed is always looking for what it wants and then it chooses
the objects that the mind considers are more about the to focus on that, it doesn’t see other. It only sees what it
realities of things then more wisdom is likely to be in the chooses to.
mind.
__________________________________________
We need to look at things, when we walk around we need to
SUT: Now when we think, 'What is this?', we think of the
look, we need to listen. Remind yourself to know that you're
concept. In the practice when you ask, 'What is this?' you want
hearing and listening or seeing and looking before just doing
to pick up the nature.
the activity because it brings that wisdom in. It allows that
wisdom to have its place first before dealing with the concept. Yogi: I didn't understand that 'you don't think of the concept,
Although you are now looking at the concept, the you think of the nature'. What does that mean?
understanding that there is a natural phenomenon at work is
also there. SUT: Nature is the reality of your experience. What is being
directly experienced. So maybe there is touch, there is seeing,
Is it because we look that we see? Or is it because we see that there is the not understanding of what this is. So, the reality of
we look? Looking is intentional, yes? Is it because we look at, the experience.
for example, the glass, that we see the glass? Or is it because
we can see that we can look at the glass? When we say 'What is this?', maybe when we are thinking,
'What is this?', we are not interested in what we are thinking
Yogi: The second. about, but recognizing that there is a process happening. We
are interested in the process. What is it that is happening,
SUT: Because if we were blind, if we couldn’t see, we couldn’t
that’s what we are interested in.
choose to look.
__________________________________________
[in English] The attention goes to listening because we cannot
see. Yogi: Ānāpānasati is towards concept...
If we can't see we can only listen, we can only choose to look SUT: Right
at what we can see. If we couldn't see in the first place what

47
Yogi: And yet you just said concept equals thought, usually SUT: Actually all we can know is the elements, we can’t really
thought is concept, and yet you just said concept is delusion. know the body. We can only think of the body but we cannot
experience body, we experience the feeling of the elements.
SUT: The relationship in not exclusive, all defilement minds
have concepts as their object but not every concept gives rise Yogi: Is what we feel real?
to a defilement. So it doesn’t work the other way, it works this
SUT: What you can experience directly is reality. That’s why
way.
we can’t eat chicken…
SUT [in English] Every defiled mind pays attention to concept
[in English]: Sweet you can eat, chicken you cannot eat!
but not every time you pay attention to concept is a
defilement. Samatha practice is all concept but those are Interpreter: You don’t eat food, he says, you eat softness,
wholesome states not unwholesome states. hardness… What you experience directly. Taste…
Yogi: So you can pay attention to a concept with a knowing SUT: [in English] You don’t eat banana, you taste, sweet. You
and non-defiled mind, in the correct, wise way. don’t eat vegetable, you eat sweet or sour… [Laughter]
SUT: Yes. When there is understanding, the wisdom of what a There are people who eat something just because of the idea
concept is, you can take a concept and defilement doesn’t that that is good. For example, one yogi told me she likes
arise. That's why you don’t remove concepts, you don’t try to vegetables, and I said, ‘Why?’ and she said, ‘They’re good for
have no concepts. Concept is not a problem, delusion is the my health.’ So long as it’s vegetables she wants to eat it.
problem. So you remove the delusion about what a concept is.
They think that vegetables are good for their health so when
__________________________________________ they see vegetables they are very happy and there’s a lot of
greed. And when they see meat they feel aversion, you know at
the dining-table queue.
Yogi: The four elements. Can you see the heat in your body?
That’s why some Brahmins in the Buddha’s time said to the
Can you see the water element? Can you see the wind
Buddha, “Do you eat disgusting food?” And the Buddha said,
element?
“No.” The Brahmin spied on the Buddha and saw him eating
meat and leapt out and said, “Ah! You’re eating disgusting
food!”

48
And the Buddha said, “That’s not what I meant by disgusting.
It’s when you eat with greed, aversion, and delusion that it is
disgusting.” And that Brahmin became enlightened.

Whatever we eat, if we eat with greed it is disgusting. Even if

we eat vegetables with greed.

Yogi: All the time, that’s what we’re doing…

SUT: There’s this practice of eating food that is not cooked,

‘free of fire’. My teacher used to say the fire on your stove
won’t do anything to you, it’s the fires of the defilements that
will get you.

49
S ECTION 9 human life, a better life, a life where you are able to practice
Dhamma is greater.
Death The thing is about not fearing death. If you’ve done a lot of
unwholesome actions in your life and there is no wisdom that
understands anything about it, fear will arise. When we are
dying, they say images of our life flash by us. When we are
near to death we also see images of where we are going, and if
we are going somewhere unwholesome fear is bound to arise.
The practice of mindfulness is very important at that time.
Yogi: It’s my understanding that an enlightened person who
dies is out of saṃsāra and he never comes back. I’ve also
heard that if you die consciously you don’t come back, because
you died without fear, mindfully. Wouldn’t it be easier than
enlightenment to learn how not to be afraid? [Laughter]

SUT: As far as I know, in Buddhism as long as you don’t have

the wisdom to stop the cycle of saṃsāra, you will continue in
the cycle of saṃsāra. Even for an enlightened being, not to
enter saṃsāra again you have to be an arahant, a fully
enlightened being—not a stream enterer, once-returner, or
non-returner, they continue in saṃsāra until they become
fully enlightened.

Being fully conscious and unafraid when you’re about to die is

an ideal situation. It won’t necessarily get you out of saṃsāra,
not as far as the Buddhists say, but it does give you a peaceful
death. It means the likelihood of going to a better life, another

50
S ECTION 10 Yogi: I am able to check for any craving and any aversion that
I can find in the observing mind, but I am not so sure about
Delusion delusion. Sometimes I feel dull or as if I am thinking in a
smog, I am not sure if this is delusion or ignorance.

SUT: Confusion and doubt are delusion in the knowing mind.

Being lost in thought is also delusion because there is no
knowing mind. Laziness, sloth and torpor, which is what you
talked about just now, doubt and confusion, wrong view, all
Yogi: How can we identify the defilement of ignorance? these are delusion. Sometimes the mind believes that what is
right is wrong and that what is wrong is right, this is also
delusion but it is slightly difficult to identify.
SUT: Delusion is clearest when you are able to recognize
It is right to check the quality of your mind all the time. We
wisdom because delusion is so different from wisdom. So
check to know the five faculties—awareness, effort, stability of
when you recognize some wisdom that you have, you also
mind, faith, and wisdom—although we often do it almost
recognize the delusions that would have been there if it were
unconsciously. Mostly we know the first four quite well: we
not for that wisdom. It can be simple things, for example in
know when we are aware and when we are not aware; we
the present moment if we don’t understand something, there
know when we are putting in effort and when we are not
is some delusion in the mind. You could call that quality
putting in effort; we know when the mind is stable and when
delusion. There are varying degrees of delusion.
the mind is not stable; we know when the mind has faith and
When you have an insight, things feels very clear. What has confidence and when it does not. Our greatest failing is to
become clear feels very clear, and in that moment you are recognize when we have some wisdom and when we don’t.
aware of what was not clear before. And so while clarity is a
When I ask yogis questions about whether the five faculties
quality of insight, doubt and confusion are qualities of
are present, they are generally able to recognize whether the
delusion.
first four are present or not. But when I ask, “Did you have
__________________________________________ wisdom?” then either the question is too broad, or they are

51
not really sure if wisdom was present and, if so, what kind of
wisdom.

One kind of wisdom that we develop through the practice is

knowing how to be skillful with our own practice. For
example, the realization that greed cannot help to progress
the practice will naturally lead the mind to give up the greed
to achieve something in the practice. That’s wisdom that has
developed in the mind and that makes practice more skillful.
If there’s real understanding of the futility of using greed to
practice then the mind will never want to try to do anything
with the practice. It would be artificial.

__________________________________________
Yogi: Is avijjā caused by the hindrances?

SUT: I read the following in a sutta: Why is there dosa?

Because there is lobha. Lobha causes dosa. Why is there
lobha? Because there is moha. Delusion causes lobha.

My simple understanding of why there is moha is because

there’s not enough wisdom. But in that sutta it says there is
moha because the nīvaraṇa (hindrances) are strong. Then it
asks why the nīvaraṇa are strong, and it says because
duccarita (wrong actions or inappropriate behaviours) are
being practiced. So how do you reverse it? Do wholesome
deeds, then your nīvaraṇa will be less, the mind will be more
pure, there will be less moha, and so on.

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S ECTION 11

Dreams/ Sleep There was one yogi who tried to do it for a week and got
frustrated because he couldn’t. If he tried to be mindful when
he was sleeping he couldn’t sleep, and when he relaxed the
mindfulness he fell asleep. [Laughter]

How do you know you’re awake? What wakes up first, the

mind or the body?

Yogis: The mind… Mind… Hmm… Awareness.

Yogi: Would there be an explanation why would someone
SUT: So you know when you’re awake. Usually it’s because the
have a dream, the same dream, for years on end?
mind knows something, the mind knows an object, that’s why
it feels it’s awake.

SUT: The mind is interested in it, maybe intrigued by it, We often wake up to an alarm or a bell or something like that.
attached to it. Attachment happens because of various things, Does the alarm wake us up? Or are we already awake, and
not because you just like something but also if you are afraid that’s why we hear the alarm?
of something or you dislike something, there is attachment
Yogi: I think we’re already awake because sometimes when
because of that emotion, so for whatever reason the mind is
we’re so tired we sleep through the alarm and don’t hear a
attached to something that can recur over and over again.
thing.
__________________________________________
SUT: You can all check yourselves.
SUT: My teacher used to ask me to check when I wake up in
If we’re curious then it makes us aware because we’re trying to
the morning whether I remember the last thing in the mind
find out. So we’ll also learn to balance our awareness, so that
before I fell asleep.
we’re not too peaked, so we don’t have too much energy and at
To do that you have to be mindful throughout the day and the same time not-enough-awareness.
then sleep. And one day you’ll wake up in the morning and
remember what you thought before you feel asleep.
53
I’ll give you a hint. We don’t awaken suddenly. We gradually
awaken. Particularly when we’re in retreat, we are aware of
states of half-awakeness. In the ladies’ quarters there are
always ghost stories because in these half-awake states the
women meditators want to wake up, but when the mind is so
asleep it can’t wake up, and they think something is holding
them and pressing them, and then they come up with ghost
stories. It’s usually in half–awake states, they frighten easily.

So the mind awakens slowly. When you are meditating and

you’re being mindful and falling asleep, you will notice
yourself drifting into sleep and sometimes you hear yourself
snore and wake yourself up again! [Laughter]

54
S ECTION 12 work, what it’s like while it’s doing its work. We think it's
doing its work but we don't know, maybe it's not, we're not
Drowsiness/ Dream like really sure… and then it stops working. Also, if we eat too

states much we get sleepy.

If we use too much effort to be aware we run out of energy and

cannot put in any more viriya and the mind becomes sleepy. If
we lack interest we become sleepy. Lack of interest shows a
lack of wisdom and skilful means in the practice, that you're
not really interested in the process. If you're really interested
in what's happening one hour can feel like just a few minutes.
Yogi: When I sit for formal meditation drowsiness often
comes very quickly. It's a bit better if I keep my eyes open. But Yogi: I’ve noticed that it happens almost within a few minutes
I’m wondering whether it's better to do mainly walking when I of sitting down—
want to do formal practice rather than forcing myself to sit on
the cushion? SUT: Too much quietness. Even when at your normal
movements you're walking slowly. You like the quietness too
much. Too much samādhi, no balance. There is a lot of
samādhi but not enough wisdom and viriya. You might want
SUT: Whatever makes you more alert is better. And then
to walk faster.
when you feel better from your walking, when there is more
elasticity in your awareness, alertness et cetera, then you can Maybe it's your personality as well. Maybe you're generally
test yourself on the cushion and investigate. You can then calm and not excitable. If you do things a bit more
investigate what got into the mind that made you sleepy. energetically the mind will be more alert. The moment you sit,
When the mind is sleepy it means that the mind is not it’s calm. Even in the walking make sure you watch the mind
working, it’s not interested. If the mind can work it won't get that's aware. Is it working? How is it working? How is it
sleepy. aware? Keep an eye on it. See whether it's energetic. When
you keep your eyes open remember to realize seeing is an
That's why I say always to watch the mind that is aware, that’s
object as well.
the mind that is working to do the meditation. Because if we
don't watch it we don't know whether it's really doing its

55
The best thing would be if we had a swimming pool. the work of being mindful, of being aware, but maybe a little
Swimming meditation: you can swim slowly but you keep bit blindly. It’s just doing the work but there’s no purpose in
moving. I always has this dream of making the monastery into it. It’s good to remind yourself of what the mind is doing and
a kind of factory: the yogis would have jobs, not just yogi jobs, why. Sometimes when I give reminders in the hall, I say to
but jobs like assembly line workers. Or maybe you would have people, “Are you going to be aware or are you just going to
a project to do, you would have to be mindful. That would be indulge in what you are feeling?” Be careful really to be
your mindfulness practice. mindful and not just mechanically mindful.

It’s very natural, when the mind has a job to do, a natural job, At the Centre I once asked, “Do we realize that peace is also a
and then it has to bring in mindfulness. Then the mind is kind of dukkha?” One monk had been indulging in his sitting
really busy because it has to try very hard to do the work. sessions and got a bit alarmed and thought I was talking to
him. I was just asking if we understood that peace is also
That's my personality. I like to have something to do. When I
dukkha but the monk felt guilty and he wondered if I had read
was young I used to do two things at the same time if possible.
his mind!
For example I would always have the radio on to study. The
mind is very fast. We can drive, listen to the radio, talk on the Sometimes we are paying attention but we’re not really
phone, and eat—all at once. We change gears, put on the conscious of the awareness, we might be paying attention but
brakes, and stop at red lights—we can do all of it! we’re not awake and alert. There might be some sati and
samādhi and the mind might be quite stable, but there is a lot
__________________________________________
of delusion. This is when we get into these states.
Yogi: Sometimes when I am meditating I suddenly get into
When we recognize thought we need to remember to
these dreamlike states. It’s exactly like a dream but I’m awake
recognize that thought is an object, that thinking is an object,
so I pull myself back. What should I do when I get into these
and that this is the mind. If we recognize the story when we
dream states happening during sitting meditation?
are recognizing thinking, then we get sucked deeper into the
story.

SUT: You are probably going into these daydreams because It is vitally important to understand what an object is:
the mind is not interested in the present moment, it’s not whatever we know is an object. Remember this and recognize
interested in the work of mindfulness. So the mind is doing it. It makes meditation a whole lot easier. In Pāli it is called

56
the ārammana, the object. There is the knowing and there is
the object.

57
S ECTION 13 SUT: Dukkha is probably not correctly translated as suffering.
We only understand dukkha-dukkha, we don’t understand the
Dukkha other two, which is not feeling suffering. Because we only
think of suffering in that way. If we translate dukkha as
suffering, that’s all that comes to mind, this emotional
suffering. A real understanding of anything, when it’s an
insight, any insights frees us, makes us feel more free. So if we
truly understood dukkha, and that’s supposed to be an
insight.

People come and say they want to practice because they want
Yogi: Today I went and took a memory, an experience, a vivid
to be happy. I feel a bit alarmed because they only understand
pleasurable experience and played it back. Because after
pleasurable, emotional happiness. They don’t understand
having read about the fact that happiness is dukkha, it
jhānic happiness or the happiness of an insight. It’s a different
depressed me. [Laughter]
kind of happiness. I sometimes say to the yogis, “Don’t want
So I decided to go and experiment with a very pleasurable to have happiness. If there’s less suffering that’s enough.”
experience to see what it did, and I enjoyed it. And then
I’m talking just about a general thing that the mind does.
afterwards I walked out of the hall and I went to sit down and
When it thinks of pleasure it wants it, then it tries to pursue it
then I got a slight sense of not quite as, you know, as
with greed. So they might do that for the practice of
happiness. It wasn’t unhappiness, it was just a slight sort of
meditation, they might try to pursue it with greed. They think
heavy sense. But I think it was just coincidence, or it was
it’s going to give them pleasure.
something else. Obviously I can’t understand at this level, but
what I’d say is has Sayadaw done the same experiment with a
pleasurable experience?



Interpreter: I think we misunderstand dukkha.

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S ECTION 14 That's how we can make our practice stronger. That's how the
Buddha became the Buddha. He put in his practice over eons
Every moment is new and that power grew and grew in the mind.

Even though every mind is new, it's not empty. New doesn't
mean empty with potential to be everything again, new means
that it has brought everything in from the past, and it has the
potential to be everything, but how do you use that for the
next moment? It's got all the old habits, conditionings, good
and bad, already inside it.
Yogi: If you’re going along on the path and able to see and Some of you know Pāli so you will understand. There are two
understand more, then any time, any moment, every moment kinds of wrong view, uccheda diṭṭhi (annihilation view) and
is new. sassata diṭṭhi (eternity view). Believing that once this life
ends, it ends and it's over, or believing that it will go on and
on and on, heaven is forever.
SUT: [in English] Object is new, reality is new.
It is somewhere between the two. When one mind is finished,
Interpreter: But it doesn't not have history. Every moment is it's finished, it's over. But there is a cause and effect chain. So
new, but every moment is a legacy of the past. long as there are conditions for the chain to link one more
time, another new mind is born. It's new, as in ‘this particular
Another Yogi: Causes and effects.
mind has never been born before’, but it has been born from
Interpreter: Because it's cause and effect. So it's new in the the old and therefore carries everything from the old with the
sense that this is a brand new mind that has arisen, but it's potential to be more.
still holding everything—
Through this string of linking chains the idea of the first mind,
SUT: Everything it is now is born from the old mind. It may ‘this is me’, is passed along to the next mind. And so the next
have one or two things added in this moment. mind thinks ‘this is me’, and it passes it along on to the next
mind. As long as there is no condition for that chain to stop,
and because that chain has been going on for so long, we think

59
‘this is me’. We think this process of mind is me, and then we SUT: The mind’s tendency is to like new things, it wants
think it is a spirit or soul. variety, it wants freshness, otherwise it starts to feel lazy or
bored. One thing to remember is that no moment is the same
There are people who think of it as ‘after this life it’s over’.
as the old. Every moment is fresh.
And they say, “The next life is another person because I don’t
know who was there in the previous life.” Also recognize that every moment is changing. When we
recognize the changes in what we are experiencing that also
helps us to keep the pressure. Although it’s neutral, it’s
changing. If we think ‘this is still happening’, with the idea
that the same thing continues to happen, then that’s wrong
view already. We believe it’s the same thing but we’re not
observing properly and seeing that every moment is fresh.

__________________________________________

Yogi: What happens when the mind gets quite neutral? I can
observe the object. If heat comes up, I observe the object and
then I try to observe the awareness. But then as I observe the
awareness of observing the mind is just quite neutral. And it
stays like this many, many times. It’s just like what this
gentleman said, we become lazy sometimes…

60
S ECTION 15 closer, right up to his door—and then he realized it was his
own breathing! [Laughter]
Fear/ Projection of mind The mind projects. And then believes it’s real, and because it
believes it’s real, it becomes afraid and believes some more…
So when we don’t understand the nature of the mind and
there’s too much samādhi, and we don’t understand what
samādhi can do, we don’t have enough knowledge, then we
scare ourselves silly!

__________________________________________
Yogi: In the Dhamma Hall I heard this noise of groaning and I
thought someone else was doing it, and then snoring. I waited Yogi: I had an experience on my last retreat here, it was a big
for quite some time thinking, why is this person not waking wake-up call. I was being mindful, walking to my car in the
up? And then suddenly I realized it was me! [Laughter] dark to get something out. And I walked back being really,
really mindful, and then I heard this person and they were
coming towards me and they were going to mug me, and I
looked around and fell straight into a bush and broke my toe—
SUT: I have had people who thought someone came and sat
a reminder of that for months to come. But it was actually a
beside them and heard that person breathing, when it’s
huge, great kangaroo! I was being so in-the-moment walking
actually their own breathing. Somehow the mind projected an
and then this thump-thump-thump! And… actually nobody
image that projected the sound out of themselves. And some
saw me I don’t think but I went head-first into one of the
people get afraid, they think a deva came and sat beside
bushes!
them, or a ghost came and sat beside them, but they are just
hearing their own breathing.

There was one man, he was really afraid of ghosts, and one SUT: The mind takes whatever information it has and
night he woke up and he heard dogs howling. Then he started perception goes to work and makes an interpretation, and this
to feel anxiety and fear. He heard this loud breathing, and it all happens so quickly. The problem is actually the thinking
felt like it was coming from far away, and he heard this about what it is, the believing, and samādhi makes it more
breathing coming up the stairs, and then coming closer and believable. Samādhi always magnifies, exaggerates, makes
61
things feel more lucid and real. The defilements too. When
you put samādhi and a defilement together, a defilement like
fear, and well, that’s a sure…

Yogi: So is that why when we’re being mindful, when a

defilement comes up, it’s like whoa! Much stronger.

SUT: It feels very clear and very obvious because samādhi is

there. One of my experiences, I was just waking up, so I was
half asleep, and I could sense this agitation in the mind. It was
a huge sense of agitation. Then I was watching it and then I
began to awaken and then I became fully awake.

Once I was awake and I was fully aware of the agitation, it had
become very small. And the reason for this is that when I was
fully awake the five other sense doors, the physical doors were
at work, so there was a more complete picture. When I was
half asleep there was only the mind door. The mind was more
sensitized, so it just felt like it took up the whole space.

When we’re just waking up we mostly just know the mind

door, and then when we’re more awake we start to take in the
other sense doors. Some people have these experiences of
awakening twice. They think they’ve awakened in the dream,
but they’re still in the dream, and then after that they finally
wake up and realize that all of that was a dream.

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S ECTION 16

Focus or Bird’s Eye View We can know hearing and seeing at the same time, yes?

So when we stay with the object, when we are trying to see the
object, we don’t notice what’s happening in the mind, we miss
so much because everything is happening in the mind. But if
we stay with the mind we see everything that the mind is
doing to experience things. And then you see a lot of … the
work of knowing the object, naming the object, remembering
the object—all these things are being done by the mind.
SUT: Do you have your feet on the floor or touching
something? Do you feel hardness or softness?

You know, when we’re given instructions and we’re told, Yogi: It happens so fast there’s no time to catch it.
‘when the feet touch the floor, know the touching,’ that’s what
we make our goal, and then we don’t realize the other things
that could be experienced. We just think ‘touching’, we don’t
think specifically anymore, we don’t feel any of the other
things that are there any more.

Your skin is soft, but the floor is hard.

We have two eyes, why do we only see one picture?

Interpreter: Scientifically it’s the brain that puts it together.

SUT: Don’t focus, just sort of blur your sight and it will
become two. It is because we focus that we see one picture. If
we don’t focus there are two pictures. The mind is so fast. In
one split second it knows so many things by itself.

63
SUT: It’s only because our awareness and our wisdom are not __________________________________________
quite there. When we are so focused we are targeting
Yogi: Where do those concentration practices come in then,
something to know, rather than trying to find out ‘what can
on an object in your practising? Isn’t that a main part of
we know?’ If we don’t focus then there’s a broader perspective
spiritual practice? Concentration on an object, or isn’t it with
waiting to see what might come into relief, into your
vipassanā?
perception. And if you continue to notice like that, if you
continue to be aware of things in this way, this awareness will
grow, this being able to know becomes stronger and stronger.
SUT: For beginners that’s a practice, start with one object.
Then slowly all the stuff that’s blurred initially when we’re Because they don’t know what to do so you get them to focus
‘just knowing’ becomes more and more clear because that on one object so that they know how the mind is working to
knowing is getting stronger and stronger. know. But once you can know that then you can try to know
other things, try to know the mind itself.
So when you are able to know like that and you try to focus on
one object at a time, then you know how much tension there is It’s just for us yogis, we follow what we’re taught, and most of
in trying to focus on objects rather than just know what the the practices are teaching us to focus on the object, and that’s
mind is doing. what we do. The Buddha taught many, many methods of
practising, and there are the practices that go from the object
We really need just to be able to naturally know what the
and there are the practices that go from the knowing.
mind is doing naturally. Then our sense of the fact that this is
not a personal process, that ‘I’ am not in charge of this, even __________________________________________
the meditation, that the mind is doing its own work of being
aware, and everything becomes more clear, more obvious. Yogi: Maybe about fifteen years ago I was doing tai chi. And as
I did it progressively I became short of breath and I had to
But when we put in effort to focus on an object or whatever, keep on panting. And after that I was telling my husband
the sense that I am doing it, I am the meditator, I am making maybe there’s something wrong with my heart. So he took me
effort, I can see, I have experience, becomes very strong. to see the cardiologist and the doctor said nothing wrong.
Actually it is just nature at work, that’s what we need to Then my husband told me, “I think you don’t know how to
realize. It is knowing, it is realizing, it has experience, it is relax.” I think that is quite a big problem for me when it
happening. comes to meditation, so can Sayadaw please advise me?

64
Like yoga as well. It’s always a co-ordination between the
movement and the breath. Some postures, as you move into
the posture you breathe out, and as you move out of the
posture you breathe in. But if you just stay with the mind,
you’ll be aware of everything you’re doing. You’re aware of the
movement and how you have to breathe. But if you try to pay
attention to the movement, to the breath, one at a time, you’ll
probably forget to breathe while you’re moving and things like
that. But if you don’t try to control those things and you just
stay with your mind, just know yourself, then everything just
happens.

__________________________________________
SUT: When I went to Hong Kong, a lot of the yogis do tai chi
in the morning. I would do tai chi with them. I loved it! Every Yogi: Isn’t it that mind itself cannot be aware of many things?
moment there are so many things to be aware of at the same You take one thing, one thing, one thing… You cannot be
time! You can’t focus. aware of hearing and seeing. You hear and then you see, it’s
like a movie, a sequence.
If you’re moving like this, what can you focus on? But you can
know both at the same time. That’s perfect for vipassanā! You
move the hands and the legs at the same time and you can
know it all at the same time. Awareness is already doing its SUT: When the mind is very strongly focused on the object,
work, you’re aware, you can’t focus too much, so you relax. yes, you cannot take more than one thing at a time. Then it’s
like a sequence, one after the other, after the other. But like I
The reason you’re getting short of breath when you’re doing said just now about looking and seeing: if you look at this
the tai chi is because you’re using too much concentration. recorder, and you look very carefully, that’s what you will see.
You’re trying to pay attention to all your movements with too But if you notice, there’s actually all the peripheral vision. But
much intensity all at the same time and that’s why you’re you can choose to focus in on it completely, and then you can
getting short of breath. So the thing is to realize that you don’t choose to go from one object to the other, to the other, and
need to pay so much attention. not acknowledge everything else that’s in your vision.

65
Or you can relax and not look at anything and you can see all thing. So it’s very important not to get the wrong idea of what
three recorders at the same time. Or everybody else in this your experience is.
room. Nothing is distinct, but everything is seen. The mind is
A very famous example of this sort-of not being able to ‘do’
just like that.
the theory is paṭiccasamuppāda. The theory of dependent
The mind is like a river. When you look at a river it’s like a origination.
body of water and that’s what we think the mind is. But if you
So it’s a cycle that’s described, where something leads to
look into the water, it’s trillions of droplets of water, or
something, leads to something. The beginning is delusion,
molecules of water.
which leads to this, which leads to that… The Buddha saw the
There’s so many layers of mind working simultaneously. And cause-effect chain but there are different kinds of causes and
the mind is much faster than we can describe. effects. A cause doesn’t always happen before an effect. In
reality causes and effects arise together.
Yogi: But the knowing itself is happening in one distinct
moment. It just appears as ‘simultaneously’ because it’s so You can understand something from just observing. When the
fast. Isn’t that right? mind has gathered enough data it just understands the
process but it’s not like you split it into atoms.
SUT: Correct, yes.
So in this chain of things, you can only see that because
In theory mind arises one at a time but experientially it’s
delusion is the beginning, in the moments that there is
impossible–because a trillion minds happen in a second, so
wisdom, that’s when the chain is already broken and the
how can you know one at a time? Only the Buddha can
escape has happened, but it’s not like you can go in and fiddle
experience that. But we are not Buddha.
with the thing.
SUT: Some of the theory in the abhidhamma explain about
There are many ideas that are explained but we can’t try to
mind, but not all of it can be experienced practically. And if
practise every theory that is explained to us. Some things have
you try to experience it practically in that way... because you
to be understood in context.
have already taken the wrong idea—you’re saying you can see
one mind at a time, one experience at a time—but that’s
already a very gross moment with billions of minds that have
already happened and you think you’ve only experienced one

66
S ECTION 17 month, twice a month. When I had the time I would go and
discuss with my teacher.
Formal practice/ Retreat/ But my retreat was at home. Home was my center. The coffee
Daily Life shop was the Dhamma hall. [Laughter] The wedding hall was
the Dhamma hall too. I would have to go attend weddings, in
Asia somebody has to attend weddings to represent the
family.

At first I hated it. ‘So many people, I want solitude.’ Then I

began to see, this is aversion, it’s dosa, so I challenged
Yogi: If what we need to do is be aware and practice myself. And then I remembered my teacher’s instruction:
awareness from moment to moment, and just do this, why do you’re not supposed to remove the object, you’re not supposed
we come to retreats if we already know what we need to be to develop aversion because of the object. So if I could go to
doing? that environment and maintain the awareness, and not
become averse, I had won the challenge. That was how I took
it. I even went to a boxing match.
SUT: Retreat is for practice, you have more time to dedicate to
__________________________________________
this exclusively. The practice gets stronger. The second thing
is you have a teacher, you can learn more. Maybe you are off Yogi: Sayadaw is telling us to practice awareness in our
on a wrong tangent and they can set you right. everyday life. How much importance does he give to sitting on
the cushion?
Yogi: So it would be good to do as many as you can?

SUT: If you have the time, why not? [Laughter]

SUT: I sit about twice a week. When I was in lay life, I would
When I started practicing in lay life because I was depressed,
sit once in the morning and once at night. But in between
it’s true I was already skilful at the practice, but I didn’t have
throughout the day I would take every opportunity to be in
time to go to retreat anymore because I was running a
myself quietly. Sitting for me means being with myself quietly.
business. So I practiced every day, very dedicatedly at home,
and then I would go and talk to my teacher maybe once a
67
Maybe I would be sitting in the market, maybe I would be —I would have to use that, that’s how scattered the mind was
sitting drinking coffee in the coffee-shop, when I wasn’t because I was so depressed. That day, I took a breath, I was
interacting with customers and I was being by myself, those aware, and then for a split second I felt free. That feeling of
were all minutes of being by myself, those were all minutes of depression completely lifted. Right after it came straight back.
sitting. Basically I just never let the mind be free. I gave the But in that split second the mind completely understood, this
mind work to do. To let the mind be free at that time was very is the way to go, to end suffering.
dangerous.
After that the saṃvega became very strong. The faith in it
The moment I wasn’t aware, the mind would start thinking became very strong. Then I began really practicing.
and then I would get depressed again, and then I wouldn’t
know where the problems were starting… If I let the mind be
free, not be mindful, if somebody came with a problem I
would just explode because I couldn’t deal with it. Because I
was depressed everything would frustrate me, so I had to keep
myself ready all the time, always mindful. When I was
physically idle the mind would be busy, keeping watch.

Yogi: How did Sayadaw develop the desire to do this?

SUT: Pāramī. That was also an insight.

I started trying to practice continuously because I was

depressed. I already knew how to practice. I didn’t really
believe that it would work on depression because I was so
depressed I didn’t think anything would get rid of it. But I __________________________________________
knew it gave me some relief. So I practiced just because it Yogi: I find when I’m trying to be mindful during the day at
offered some relief. work, I get quite absorbed in what I’m doing and then I find
that I’m anxious. It’s that intense involvement in what I’m
And then, after I had been practicing for a few months, one
doing, the mind gets some tension and it becomes aware.
day I had an experience when as usual I used an inhaler, you
know, a Vicks inhaler, to bring attention sharply to the breath
68
Something I get absorbed in it and find that I lose track of aware of the awareness you not only know what is happening
where my mind is. in the mind, you also know what’s happening in the body.

[in English] Because mind, awareness, and object are

together.
SUT: When you are aware do you tend to have more
awareness of your physical movements? Is that where most of __________________________________________
your attention tends to be?
Yogi: Say, if you’re thinking about something, maybe focusing
Yogi: No, it tends to be more in my mind, on what I’m on a logical problem or making a detailed plan or something,
thinking about, and certainly on emotion. should you also at the same time be aware of some part of the
mind? Is that not taking away from the power of the mind, by
SUT: If you are able, stay more with the mind, not just with
focusing on a problem?
the states of mind but particularly with the awareness itself. If
you can be aware of the state of the awareness then, because
everything else is being watched out of that window (and this
SUT: This is something that comes with skill—skill meaning
takes a little practice because you have to start to recognize
lots of practice. Initially, of course, yes. When we put our
the signs in the awareness that you’re starting to get involved,
minds completely inside us we can’t concentrate on things
the quickening of the mind, the mind starting to get in a
outside, and when we put our minds completely outside we
hurry, intentions)
can’t really be aware of things inside.
Yogi: Yes, I notice those things. Oh, okay, and then you think,
So in the beginning we might not be able to do it when we
“Ah, I’ve been so concentrated…” I’m hoping that more
need to concentrate on something like work, a problem, or a
mindfulness will help me to become more aware and get on to
logical thing. But what we do is to practice outside of that,
it earlier, before it becomes a problem.
whenever we can we practice, and that momentum builds up.
SUT: There is nothing more you can do. Some things have to Sometimes we find that it sort of kicks in naturally when we’re
take their natural course and become part of the mind’s doing something we’re really absorbed in, it (the awareness)
habits. Don’t rush it. Stay with the mind, begin to know your just sort of comes in, and that will start to increase as long as
intentions, your feelings, motivations, and all. If you are we keep practicing consistently.

69
When you need to do a piece of work, just do it. We have to When we have a consistent practice that constantly reminds,
allow ourselves to do the work fully. But in the times when remembers, and knows the mind at work, then it gets to the
you’re able to practice more freely, if part of the practice is to point where it becomes effortless, because it becomes so
know what’s going on in the mind and how the mind is doing familiar with itself, so intimate with itself. It always is with
things, ‘oh the mind is thinking about this so it can do that’, itself and it likes being with itself. That’s when it allows the
‘oh the mind is thinking in this way’, when your habit is to mind to do anything because it doesn’t mind, it’s always with
notice the mind functioning or the mind at work, then you’ll itself.
notice that when you let yourself do some work—because it’s a

That’s why the Buddha said to practice constantly,

continuously. The word used is continuously. And although in
the beginning it’s difficult, any amount of effort we put
towards developing momentum makes it more effortless and
continuous in the future.

There was a yogi last time I was in Perth who asked a question
about this, and at that time I said, “Do it 50-50.” That yogi
was a psychiatrist so he started thinking about what I was
saying, and thinking, ‘How do you measure?’ [Laughter] So he
asked, and I thought about it and realized, it’s not so much
50-50. Basically you allow the mind to do its work naturally.
And if it’s very practiced then the knowing of itself also
habit of the mind to recognize itself doing work—it will sort of happens naturally, at that point you’re one hundred per cent
start popping up. You will be doing something where you on your work while the other one does its own thing.
concentrate and you will sort of notice it is doing it [Laughter]
concentratedly. It will just come in naturally. But you have to
allow that to happen.

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S ECTION 18 Yogi: And it gets subtler. Initially it’s quite gross and you
notice, ‘Oh yes, that got rid of it!’ And it feels like, ‘Oh! That
Greed, Attachment in the was easy.’ But I’ve found that the greed gets subtler, for

Practice instance—

Interpreter: It’s trickier. You can’t recognize it.

Yogi: No, I didn’t recognize it. I thought I was just going to be

really mindful on this walk. But then when it didn’t quite work
out it was like, the greed was subtle. I hadn’t realized that the
trying to be mindful on the walk had actually come from a
Yogi: This is something that’s very tricky, we find a way in greed perspective.
meditation that works and we want to make it a system, and
then the next time it doesn’t work. SUT: It’s very sly and will come from all angles. Once you
recognize it at a gross level it will then come at a subtler level.
And then when you recognize that, it will come at a subtler
level, at a different level… Different angles. [Laughter]
SUT: It’s because we don’t understand all the cause-effect
relationships in the first learning and then we just want to get There was a monk who had got into a good momentum. He
that result again without really realizing what the factors came and said, “Oh, if it carries on like this then I don’t ever
were. have to stop meditating. Every-thing is going fine, awareness
is continuous, and it feels effortless.” He just had to put in
The understanding that greed doesn’t help the practice is a
minimal effort to keep it going.
lesson we will have to learn over and over and over again.
The next morning he came and said, “I don’t know what
When we haven’t learnt a particular lesson thoroughly we will
happened. I don’t know how to practice any more. It’s all
come across it over and over again. That’s why the first book is
gone.” [Laughter] Something had spoiled the mood and he
called Don’t Look Down On The Defilements, They Will Laugh
didn’t know what.
At You. We sort of kick the defilement out of the ring once and
then we think we can do it again. When you have a good experience always check how the mind
was meditating before that. What did it do? What sort of

71
attitude did it have? All that. When you have bad meditation, Everything he did, initially would be really good, it would get
also check, what did the mind do? What sort of attitude did it really good, and then he’d get really bored.
have?
It took a while to realize what sort of circle he was spinning.
We learn from each of these things over and over again. When He was a perfectionist and so after working simply at it—in
we haven’t learned, our meditation goes up and down, good- the beginning he thinks of it as, ‘I’m a beginner’, so he would
bad-good-bad-good-bad. When we learn the peaks become do it simply. But after a while when he would get quite good
less and less high and the troughs less and less low. We really and think ‘now it can get really much better’. And then he
understand. would start to think of what it ‘should be’ and become
impatient with how it was at that moment, because he wanted
We can sort of gauge how skilful we are at our meditation by
to get it right away.
how high and low we go. The less skilful, the more high and
low you go. He’d gone to many places to practice. He couldn’t stop
practicing meditation but he kept coming up against this brick
It’s very important to know, to understand, particularly, what
wall. Afterwards he understood what was in his way.
the conditions are for the results, the causes. Defilements
always crave a result. They want to get something, a certain Yogi: This expectation thing is so subtle. You don’t realize that
way. But wisdom always thinks of means, not the end. it’s there sometimes.
Wisdom looks at what can be, what conditions can be fulfilled.
SUT: For the long-term meditator this is the main demon.
What causes are needed to fulfil the conditions.
You know, there are the ten contaminations of vipassanā
Yogi: So is it also fair to say wisdom looks at the process? insight. And the first nine are experiences that we have in
vipassanā practice, like seeing light, feeling light,
SUT: Yes, right. Particularly when you’re understanding that
understanding clearly. All these sort of good experiences. All
every cause has an effect. The understanding that if the
of them are valid vipassanā experiences. What makes them
conditions are fulfilled, if the causes are fulfilled, the effect
contaminations is when we attach to them. We give them
cannot help but take place.
greater meaning or significance than they actually have.
There was a yogi who worked very hard and he seemed to hit a
__________________________________________
brick wall every couple of days. I would try to help him work
through different techniques, try it this way, try it that way.

72
Yogi: I remember one story about Jack Kornfield. He was in It’s possible for a yogi to become very attached to.
Ajahn Chah’s monastery and then he went to Mahasi
Yogi: Or get excited about.
Sayadaw’s place. And he was there for six months, a silent
retreat, everything went well. And then he came back, he was Interpreter: Excitement brings some sort of attachment.
really excited to explain his practice to Ajahn Chah, “It’s great There is a feeling of elation about it.
over there!” He said he could see every tiny muscle in his feet
when he walked. Like he was so mindful. And Ajahn Chah just
said, “Great. More things to let go.”

So it sounds like some people get attached to these kind of

things too. They just keep on knowing, knowing, instead of
letting go.

SUT: Yes, that happens. We need to begin by knowing, but not

hang on to it. What Ajahn Chah meant by ‘letting go’ is letting
go of the sense of ego that ‘I’ know so much. ‘I’ have had such
an experience. But not to let go of the knowing. You cannot let
go of the knowing, but let go of the attachment to how much I
know, the sense of owning that experience. Every moment is
gone.

[in English] Already gone.

It’s not the knowing we have to let go of but the defilement.

We get self-satisfied in our practice, or get conceit or
arrogance and so on with our own practice… However, the
more we can know, the better. We already lack knowing.

73
S ECTION 19 the camera, the car keys… When I thought of the luggage and
everything I had in there I only felt loss for one thing, a book
Grief in which I’d been writing all the ideas in it for two years at
that time.

The mind kept saying, ‘It’s gone! What a loss!’ And of course I
noticed every time, and then the mind would complain again,
‘It’s gone! What a loss!’ It happened once… twice… by the
fourth time, another mind said, ‘It’s gone. Why do you keep
going on about it? It’s happened already!’
Yogi: The thing I am sitting with, particularly on retreat, is
grief. And it’s a grief about the environment and how it’s
changing because of climate change. I’m not sure what I am
asking Sayadaw, maybe just if the instruction he’s giving there
is similar appropriate for my situation too?

SUT: Understand that the grief comes from a feeling of loss,

it’s dosa, therefore try to see the corresponding ‘what is it that
the mind wants?’ that’s causing it. We have to try our best to
mitigate unnecessary loss, but in the end, the last resort is
again uppekkhā. When you can’t help it, you have to accept.
Because loss is natural. Loss is part of nature, we have to
come to terms with it. Our whole lives are full of one loss after
the other. We are losing every moment, it’s nature.
Yogi: I can really relate to what the other yogi said. Because
When I went to Europe the car got stolen, and my luggage was one can deal with personal loss like that and go through all the
in the car, so I lost everything: I had only the robes I was stages, but when it’s a universal loss, it’s much harder, I think.
wearing! They came into the room, they took the computer,

74
SUT: There is nobody creating this loss. It’s the defilements. It
is not a person who is damaging the environment, it’s the
defilements. When we don’t see the personal, we will have less
defilements towards the phenomena that are at work. When
we think somebody is doing it, we will feel angry with those
persons. Because there is delusion, that is why this is
happening.

There are seven billion people in this world. What percentage

do you think is wise and what percentage is deluded?
[Laughter] That’s what the Buddha said. The answer is clear.

Yogi: So we just change ourselves and don’t do anything about

it?

SUT: Do what you can but you have to accept what you can’t.
Acceptance.

75
S ECTION 20

Honesty For example, yogis practice meditation, yes? And they don't
really know the motivations that they bring into the practice,
why the practice becomes better or worse, things like that. But
as a meditation teacher watching the mind for a long time. I
know the patterns of the mind. So when a yogi comes and
says, “Oh, my practice is not good,” I already know greed or
something was at work.

Sometimes it's difficult to point out to the yogi that they have
Yogi: It seems like we all have blind spots and it's often easier that motivation or defilement, or even wisdom, in their
to see other people's blind spots than to see our own. How do practice. Sometimes we don't even recognize our own wisdom.
we bring more honesty to our own practice?
Interpreter: This always reminds me of something that
happened at a centre in America. This lady was talking about
an experience she had had. She would try to practice at home,
SUT: Think of it as not enough understanding. We haven't
but when she came home she would be tired. She said she
been able to see that view of ourselves. It's like a lack of skill, a
tried to be aware of the tiredness, but that it was hard because
lack of ability to see. We're able to recognize those defilements
she was tired and it was difficult to be mindful. I was
in ourselves that we have the ability to see, and then there are
translating this to the teacher and I said, “She said it's hard,
subtler levels that we haven't quite got a grip on yet.
she's tired, she's trying to be mindful.”
Yogi: If you have a very good dhamma friend, you can invite
And he said, “Tell her to stop trying to make the tiredness go
them to tell you.
away.” And I said to Sayadaw, “She didn't say that.” Sayadaw
SUT: Even the blind spots that others see in us are still quite said, “Tell her to stop trying to make the tiredness go away.” I
gross. At that level, yes, somebody can tell you about some couldn't assume that this was what the yogi was trying to do
behaviour of yours that you never thought was unwholesome because she hadn't said that. And I was like, “Wait, listen to
but that annoys people, or something like that. But that's still the rest.” Sayadaw said with more irritation, “Tell her to stop
gross. There are subtler things that neither they nor you see. trying to make the tiredness go away.”
We can become able to see them.
76
Then I said to the lady, “Are you trying to make the tiredness
go away?”

And I told the yogis about this exchange. I said I couldn't

assume that that was what she meant. But Sayadaw already
knew that was what she was trying to do. That's why she
found it difficult to try to be mindful all the time.

77
S ECTION 21 mind sees that there’s just thinking and no thinker. Because
you’ve been seeing it, the difference will be so obvious to you.
‘I’ Yogi: There are moments when it seems—I guess afterwards—
I go, “oh, there’s nothing there,” like a shock.

SUT: Yes, it’s always like a shock. There are people who cry.

Yogi: Actually some fear generally.

SUT: Yes, because you feel like, “what do I do without me?”

We rely on this ‘me’ so much, this idea of myself [in English,
Yogi: Whenever I check, there is apparently a person here, I
“No me, no I, how to stand?!]
fall into thinking much more easily in walking meditation on
retreats. And the thinker seems to be the same ‘me’ over and Wisdom and delusion are opposites. We all want to
over. I wonder why it happens more easily on retreats? As if understand Dhamma and then sometimes we understand it
I’m more close to it or something. I think I’m aware, but then and then it frightens us! We don’t want it to be like that… But
actually the awareness has turned to me, who’s turned into a it’s only initially. Initially, it’s always a bit of a shock. After a
thinker, and… again… while you get used to it and then you accept everything for
what it is.

Our old view, our old way of seeing things, it doesn’t really
SUT: Actually it is a recognition of the reality of what’s
want to accept that it’s not that way. There was a bhikkhuni
happening—there is a delusion that I am the thinker, but in
who had a startling experience of the sense that there is no
retreat because you’re observing it you’re actually seeing that
‘me’, and she had a very strong one. To talk to me about it, she
delusion, whereas at home we’re not even really aware that
couldn’t talk, she was so sad, she just cried and cried, she
we’re thinking. It’s just a difference between lack of awareness
couldn’t bring herself to speak about it because it was so…
and awareness, that’s all.
Nothing to hold on to. Just when she thinks about it, the
And now that you recognize the delusion that ‘I am the memory of the realization of it…
thinker’, imagine if the sense that ‘I am the thinker’ loses
itself, imagine if… because you’re observing it suddenly the

78
So at the time she had the insight, it was very real, she knew there was. A concept is like this: from our point of view we
that it was true, but once the insight had faded, the old “me’ is believe that it exists, that it’s there, but it’s just a construct of
back and it doesn’t want not to be there and it fights. the mind.

__________________________________________ __________________________________________

Yogi: I studied quite a lot with Western Buddhist teachers and

often they talk about self-compassion or mettā toward self, to
allow space. I really like some of the teachings of relaxing the
mind and relaxing the body.

SUT: It is the same, being kind to yourself, just relaxing. This

heart-mind is very important. It has to be relaxed, at ease, and
comfortable, then it can do its best.

What we call ‘me’ is in fact this mind. Rather than say there is
no ‘I’ maybe it is better to understand what exactly we are
calling ‘I’. We call the mind ‘myself’, ‘me’, and we use it. We
use the mind to do so many things but for convenience we call
it ‘me’ or ‘I’. So we need to know that this process exists; if ‘I’
was not there this process would still be there, and yet we call
this process ‘I’.
Yogi: In Sayadaw’s writing he talks about wisdom coming
We think that the ‘I’ exists, that it’s real, but it is the process of forth? It’s like wisdom knows the way through, he uses the
mind that is real. What we call self is an idea, but the idea is abstracted form of the concept, rather than ‘your knowing’ so
not real. It is like a distortion of view, like seeing something that—
on the wall from a distance and thinking it’s a nail, but when
Interpreter: So that we always realize wisdom is wisdom, and
you come closer you see that there is no nail. There was never
not my wisdom.
a nail there in the first place but from a distance we thought

79
SUT: Yes, that’s right. The Buddha described it that way. For
example, with the mind and the greed that arises in the mind,
recognize that greed has arisen in the mind. He describes it
like that.

When the understanding that it’s a reference becomes very,

very strong, whenever you use the word ‘I’ you feel very
conscious that you’ve used the word and that it’s not really
indicating yourself, that it’s indicating some quality. When we
speak, the words we speak very often indicate what lies
behind, what colours our view.

Yogi: Is this referencing of the ‘I’ and the understanding of the

‘I’ as a concept, as a reference point, an essential part of a
sotāpanna’s understanding?

SUT: For a sotāpanna it’s already understood. The sotāpanna

understands clearly that the process of mind and matter is not
a person, and because the sotāpanna understands this clearly
he uses the word freely without ever feeling that it’s a ‘me’.

When I was practicing at home, around the time I agreed to

get married and during my wedding I was being mindful all
the time, particularly during the wedding, I noticed how many
‘I’s there were. Every time I saw the mind think ’I’, it felt very
loud and very prominent because I could see how much the
mind believed it, feeling that ‘my separate life’, was beginning
because I was going to get my own room. It was alarming.

80
S ECTION 22 I had told one yogi to go and find all the intentions possible.
The yogi was sitting in meditation, he couldn't find any
Intention intentions to move. But this yogi was persistent. He searched
his whole body one part at a time to find any intentions. Then
he settled on his eyes and was thinking 'why are my eyes
closed?' And then he knew it was because he had intended to
keep them closed. Suddenly every other intention in the body
was so obvious. He had the intention to keep his hands in a
certain way, the intention to be still, the intention to keep the
waist straight.
Yogi: We’re told to watch for intention. Sometimes, if I'm
We don't realize intention continues to function when we are
mindful while I'm eating I can watch my intention to go for
not moving, to keep us in that position. In every part of our
the food. But when I'm in sitting meditation what are those
body.
subtle things you watch for in terms of your intention? How
can it be seen? Is it just greed? Or being aware of greed or Breathing, always the intention to breathe. That's why I ask
being aware of aversion? why we're breathing.

Yogi: You were saying something earlier and I had the same
problem. Say you are reaching for something, a cup, you pour
SUT: It’s easier to know intention when you’re moving.
something to drink, then you pause. Is that an urge?
During sitting meditation yesterday I said intentions are in
the whole body, we're full of these urges to do. I introduced Interpreter: There is also the urge to be still, not just to move.
that so we might notice when there was an urge to do
something in some part of our body. SUT: If I’m just holding a cup, I’m not moving and I’m not
going to move. Is that intention? Because of the intention it
When we're going to do a gross movement of course it's very remains held, so there is the intention to remain. There's
obvious. But we can notice it when we’re sitting as well. If you energy there to keep it in that position.
can see the mind you will see those intentions.

81
The wind element is called the cittaja vāyo dhatu. It's a Yogi: In traditional vipassanā practice they talk about
mentally produced wind element. Some people move in their ‘intention’, but when you lift your foot and you want to move
meditation. When you ask them why, they say that the wind is it forward, to notice the intention… Now, a lot of things
moving them. They believe that it's the wind element so they happen, like digestion happens. I mean, from a scientific point
keep letting themselves move. You have to realize you want to of view your brain has to send a message for those things to
move, that the mind is causing movement. The body can't happen. Like if you’re paralysed the message to move the
move without the mind. hand doesn’t go. So is that the intention meant by the Buddha
as cetanā?
Yogi: What controls intention?

SUT: It can be a defilement and it can be a kusala mind. And

there are neutral intentions like blinking the eyes and SUT: Intentions to move and so on, those cetanās are neutral.
breathing. The cetanās that cause kamma are kusala (wholesome) and
akusala (unwholesome) cetanās.

The intentions that you’re talking about that arise are mental
formations. When intentions arise in the mind, they’re just
like energy. It’s mental energy that gives rise to the wind
element that will push that forward.

Those sorts of intentions, there’s no words for them, it’s not

like a desire to do something where you think, ‘I want to eat
something’.

Yogi: Not a kamma-forming intention.

Interpreter: Yes, not a kamma-forming intention.

Yogi: So there are not really cetanās for all?

__________________________________________
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SUT: There are a lot of cetanās continuously. There’s this SUT: So a plan begins. Sitting is finished, now I’m going to get
mental energy to move. The mind is pushing every movement, up. And then the body, some part of the body moves first.
and also the stillness. Intention to be still is also there. So Which part of the body moves first?
there is not only energy to move but also to remain still.
Yogis: The entire body? The head?
Intentions are always there.
SUT: It differs from person to person. You might want to try it
Intention throughout the whole body just to remain seated,
out.
the intention to stay there. We are more familiar with
intentions to move because the change gives us an indication Some people move their eyes first. Some people open their
that there was an intention, it’s more obvious. eyes, but some people they sort of stay in that state, they like
that quiet, so they move a little bit here and there.
So long as we begin to see the mind more, there are times
when we will notice these functions of mind at work. This is That sort of continuity, do we know in detail how we move
just one of the functions of mind. There are four nāma from one state to another? What happens first? And after
khandas. Once you are skilful at recognizing mind, then you that?
will recognize the different functions of the mind.
If we are focused on the one thing we’re paying attention to
Even if we just watch our bodily movements all the time, we then we don’t really see the flow, the chain of activity. We
will begin to notice the intentions that come with them as don’t know what begins, what ends. When you enter your
well. That’s possible. When the mind is still it’s easier to room, does your head go in first or your body?
notice intentions. For example, maybe you’re walking and
then you want to change direction. When we finish a sitting When you try too hard, you can’t see. Just let it happen
session and we are ready to get up which part of the body naturally.
moves first? Or is it the mind? What starts the process of
It’s only if we’re really on top of the game, if we have this
getting up?
continuity of awareness, that we notice these funny little
Yogis: The mind. things. When you’re not interested in what you’re going to
know but just interested to know, then you just stay with what
SUT: Which mind? What mind? you might know next.
Yogis: Intention. __________________________________________

83
Yogi: Is there intention even if you’re asleep?

SUT: Yes, there’s intention, even in sleep. Breathing

throughout your sleep, intending to breathe all the time.

Yogi: So intention is not a function of consciousness?

SUT: There are both conscious and unconscious intentions.

The unconscious ones are very neutral, very subtle. I would
say involuntary and voluntary intention. So normal breathing
is an involuntary intention and a voluntary intention might be
intending to inhale and exhale deeply, intentionally breathe
deeply.

Yogi: And those involuntary intentions can also arise from

external stimuli as well? For example, if someone is sleeping
and they hear a noise—

Interpreter: Like a knee-jerk reaction sort of thing?

Yogi: That sort of thing. The whole process of perception and

intention is all happening unconsciously?

SUT: Yes. But when your awareness is good you can recognize
intentions at work, you can see them at work, and you can
watch them.

84
S ECTION 23 SUT: When there is a lot of awareness, or when there has been
a lot of awareness, and a lot of wisdom has been developed,
Intuition particularly the wisdom can become very detailed—it sees a
lot of cause and effect, it sees the interrelationships between
mind at work, the mind’s functions, the ramifications of these
things, it already understands how this could affect that, in
different scenarios as well. Once that sort of detailed
understanding is there, then you might almost call that
intuition, because the mind can see ahead, it can see that in
the nature of normal minds which don’t have any control over
themselves this is the way things tend to happen.
Yogi: Is there something happening before seeing, like My teacher had this saying: “When a wise person thinks about
intuition? something, it is more accurate than if you actually ran there to
Interpreter: You're saying that you had a sense that you were look at it.” It understands the nature of mind so well and the
going to see something and then you saw it? way everything interacts, you could call that intuition. It just
knows ahead so clearly because it knows that this is how
Yogi: Yes. things work. It’s not an ‘out of the blue’ feeling, but real
understanding. When someone has a lot of experience then
SUT: It could be imagination. For example, somebody might
they can almost predict things in the future.
imagine they're going to see a ghost and then they open the
toilet door and then see a headless man there. But it's just Yogi: Sometimes we are not aware where it is coming from,
their imagination. we just know that something is right or wrong, whether to do
something or not.
__________________________________________
SUT: Very often with that sort of thing it could just be a lack
Yogi: Could l ask what role Sayadaw thinks intuition plays in
of awareness of the mind at work. No thought arises on its
mindfulness and wisdom?
own, something always gave rise to it. And we might already
have an understanding of the many ramifications of a
particular thing that gave rise to a feeling about it, little bits of

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information that we didn’t even realize we had gathered, that
may give rise to that intuition. The mind already has
information that we may not know it has.

We don’t know our minds very well or very deeply. The mind
is constantly doing its own work, it might feel like intuition,
like it’s just come out of the blue, but at the fundamental level
nothing comes out of the blue. There is something in there, a
process has already taken place.

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S ECTION 24 this. You feel resistance to the experience, you don’t want to
have the experience. At that time what you actually have to
‘It’s difficult to meditate’ look at is the resistance itself.

So come back to your feeling, state of mind, you can check

what your mind is thinking about that experience, what is
your attitude towards that experience.

Yogi: So you shouldn’t back off from the practice all together?

Interpreter: It depends.
Yogi: Due to concentration, I get tense, other stuff might come
Yogi: You should still do that type of enquiry?
up. What should you do in that situation? Should you just stop
your practice? Change your practice? When the practice goes SUT: Yogis sometimes say, ‘It’s hard to meditate,’ or ‘it’s
wrong, it’s not joyful… What should you do? The experience is difficult to meditate,’ but meditation is just knowing what is
all wrong… all different. The experience is all wrong. Difficult. happening. There’s nothing difficult about that. We can’t even
help knowing what’s happening—particularly when it’s
Interpreter: Why do you say the experience is wrong? There is
difficult, we can’t even get it out of our minds! It’s in our face.
no wrong experience. There’s only an aversion to an
So there’s no such thing as ‘difficult to meditate.’ What is
experience, but an experience is not wrong. Do you mean, if
difficult is that we find it difficult to go through that
you’re experiencing something that is difficult, how do you
experience.
handle it?
[in English] We cannot get what we want.
Yogi: Yes.
We want to have stillness, we want to have a good experience.
We don’t want to have to work through this experience as a
SUT: Whenever we experience something that is difficult for way to be mindful. That’s what’s difficult for us, it’s not the
us to observe in a calm or neutral way, that’s when the object, experience itself.
whatever we are experiencing, is not the right thing for us to
observe anymore. Because what it has resulted in, is a reaction
in the mind that is observing, so you feel aversion to observing
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Whenever we suffer we think of that as a bad experience, as Everybody was in fear because the war was still going on so
not good. We want to be able to meditate on it in the right way everyone was very grim and silent, and when people were in
so that we will stop suffering. In fact the right thing is if we noble silence on a retreat that was all it brought back to him,
can understand that suffering also is just an object, the and he would start feeling horrible. He didn’t know what to do
difficulty we are experiencing is also something that we are with it.
knowing in the moment, so that we are in fact meditating on
So you see an experience is just an experience but our
it.
thoughts and our background colours our view of the
So this recognizing of our attitude towards what we experience, our judgment of whether it’s good or bad.
experience is very important. To realize that it’s our attitude
When we practise vipassanā it’s very important to recognize
that colours, that judges this experience as bad or good, and
what view, what lens we’re looking through, so that we know
that good or bad is not a fundamental characteristic of the
when it’s right view and when it’s not right view. Without
experience.
right view, vipassanā is not happening, but you can recognize
For example, it’s quiet, completely quiet, silent, is that good or that there’s wrong view.
bad? Most of the people they think that’s nice. It’s good. But I
Particularly when we’re trying to deal with states of mind or
ask different yogis. Some people say that silence is boring.
thoughts in our mind or experiences, mind states that come
Some people say silence is frightening. It’s all coloured by our
up, if we think of the mind as “my” mind, every time we have
minds.
an unwholesome mind—if we have lust or jealousy or anger—
There was a yogi who every time he came on retreat would we will resist it because I don’t want to be a jealous person
start shaking. He would start getting really agitated and and I don’t want to be an angry person, so we resist it,
anxious. And the reason he became anxious was because whereas it’s not me, it’s just one of the qualities of mind.
everybody would stop talking, everybody would become
Yogi: In that case of the Vietnam vet, how was he helped to
silence, walking, silence, noble silence...
deal with that situation?
And it would create great anxiety in him because the memory
SUT: To watch his feelings—the fear that came up, the anxiety
it brought back was—he was involved in the Vietnam war and
that came up, just to watch that in a neutral way. It took a
during the war a lot of his friends died. And when they had to
while and it helped him to not think about the story… for him
carry the dead bodies, nobody was allowed to speak. They had
it’s a trauma – he had to consciously stop thinking and come
to carry the bodies in silence.
88
back to just the feeling, to see that the fear is just a feeling and
not associated with the thoughts.

__________________________________________

Yogi: It’s natural to feel sometimes that I’m aimless, I

suppose? Or it’s easy to feel aimless.

SUT: When it feels aimless, give it a purpose, stick it to

something, and then it will come back.

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S ECTION 25 not. Jhāna is a state that is sammā-samādhi, but it’s not the
only state that is sammā-samādhi. Enlightenment is achieved
Jhāna when the whole eightfold path is working together—silā,
samādhi, and paññā. Jhāna alone is not sufficient for
enlightenment. Jhāna is a possible—but not necessary—tool
for enlightenment.

Yogi: Is jhāna necessary for enlightenment?

SUT: In the practice of vipassanā, you may or may not develop

jhāna. Samādhi is necessary for enlightenment, but jhāna is

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S ECTION 26 We’ve all committed all sorts of akusala (unwholesome)
kamma in our saṃsāra. As long as we work on the positive, as
Kamma long as we work to cultivate the wholesome kamma, and we
keep cultivating them, what happens is that the power of the
kusala mind will purify the mind so it has the power to
understand and become enlightened. As long as we allow this
power to grow and keep feeding it we can bring it to the point
of fruition. Just keep building the good.

__________________________________________
Yogi: If you’re aware, can you neutralize bad kamma with Yogi: Something that has puzzled me was mano kamma,
awareness? thinking unwholesome thoughts leads to bad kamma. Now,
these thoughts come spontaneously in the head…


SUT: Nothing can neutralize the effects of your actions. If
you’ve done an unwholesome deed, the effect of the
unwholesome deed will take place. What can happen is SUT: Somebody asked me, why is that it in the Buddhist
mitigation. When you have a lot of wholesome actions, if their scriptures it says if you kill an animal then you get killed in
effects are stronger, they can prevent the unwholesome from the animal lives five hundred times? It’s not fair, if you take
taking place or giving fruit at that time. only one life why do you have to die a thousand deaths?

Kamma is stopped or neutralized when we become I explained that it’s not about the life, because that’s a
enlightened. If you’re a stream-enterer, a first-level entrant, concept. It’s about the mind. How many mental cetanā do we
all the kamma that would have led to rebirth in the lower go through to kill somebody or something? How many minds
states, the woeful states, is neutralized, but not the other that have the intention to kill? Innumerable, right? Because in
kamma. For example, you may have killed someone and you one thought moment there’s a trillion minds. So innumerable
will get your just desserts, but you don’t go to hell. Somebody minds that had given themselves to the energy to kill, the
else might kill you or beat you to death or something. intention to kill, that’s how many times it gives result.

91
The good thing is, it’s the same for good. As much goodness as
you put into any action, that’s how much result will come
about. And so that’s the good news, it’s fair.

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S ECTION 27 arise as one, but they have different natures. But the
understanding that they’re different will never go away, that
Knowing Mind and Object they are separate, they are two, but they’re one…

The same phenomenon, the same experience, whatever you

call it, the same moment, it’s the same mind, the same
knowing, the same object, but depending on how developed
your understanding is or whether some other understanding
is developing, then your view of that same thing can be very
different.
Yogi: When there is sense of greed, there is a sense of At the centre, and one yogi was saying that he sees that the
separation between myself and the thing which is desired. mind and the object are separate, there’s two, and I said, yes,
There’s myself and there’s the desired object. But when I’m that’s correct. Then another guy says he feels like the mind
listening to the silence then I don’t desire the silence, but and the object are one, they are arising together, and I said
there’s still a separation of the knowing mind, the mind state, yes. And then another yogi piped up, “Sayadaw! You just say
and the silence… So how can there still be separation then? If whatever!”
I’m just with the silence, is the mind really separate from the
silence? So to each his own. Whatever you understand at that moment,
that’s what is right for you, that’s fine.

That’s why when you have a vipassanā insight you really get
SUT: They are separate in nature and therefore it feels like shocked because you realize something about it that you could
they’re separate. In fact they arise together. But sometimes we never imagine possible, because it’s a reality.
will feel that there is still a distance between the knowing and
the experienced object and that’s because there’s still some Because our general state is delusion we always have that
concept that’s partly what you’re aware of. view, and then suddenly when the window finally opens a
little bit and shows us another view, that always feels like
When we begin to realize that there is a knowing and a something out of the blue, something opposite… the view is
known, we feel they’re separate. After we’ve known them for a different.
long time we start to feel like they’re one because in fact they

93
There’s a Sayadaw in Burma who says, don’t think about a doors you cannot conceptualize the mind too much, you
vipassanā  ñāṇa, don’t think about what an insight could be cannot look for the mind, it doesn’t have a shape, colour,
like, you will definitely get the opposite, because you can only sound, or anything – you can only know it by its movement,
think about it conceptually, it’s nothing like the real thing – by its functions. You know this mind has happened like this—
opposite! thought—so it’s thinking, so that’s the mind, it was thinking.

Because when we don’t understand we have to imagine, and But some people are not told that this is the mind, then they
we can only imagine with our limited understanding. think, but they don’t think “that was the mind.”

Yogi: With concepts. Hunger, feeling hungry–desire to eat. Hunger is obvious.

Where does desire happen? In the mind. Where do you feel it,
SUT: Today during the guided meditation I kept saying,
this desire? Is there a place for it? How do you know you want
“Thinking is mind, knowing is mind, feeling is mind, intention
to eat? You just know… It’s very different from hunger itself.
is mind…” The reason I am saying this is so that we become
But for many people, hunger and the desire to eat are one
familiar with this concept in order that we eventually actually
thing. It’s not two different natures. Unless you pay attention
see that it’s mind. Now we’ll see thought… we may sort of
to yourself and see the different natures of the experiences.
think that it’s mind, but to have it hit us that actually this is
just mind…

And there are also yogis who think the mind is something
else, something special – that it’s not this everyday thing
which is with us all the time. They’re looking for the mind…
but…

Once somebody is looking for the mind, there’s something

wrong. Because everything that’s happening, everything there
is, is mind, and they’re just not recognizing it. They shouldn't
be looking for it.

How can we know it’s the mind? We can only know when it
functions, when it manifests itself. Unlike the other sense

94
Yogi: They’re always there, aren’t they, both? You can’t have But when you are not able to remember that thought is an
one and not the other? object, that’s when the mind quickly gets absorbed in the
thought and then starts… you become the thinker.
SUT: You can. You can have a desire to eat when you’re not
hungry. You can be hungry and not want to eat. So you see, it’s the difference between when wisdom is present
and when it’s not, when the understanding that this is the
Yogi: Can there be something in the mind without something
object that is being known is there, then you can see it and
in the body?
sometimes it slips away and then you don’t see it, and you’re
SUT: Where do thoughts arise? In your head? inside it again.

Yogi: Yes. They seem to… So once the wisdom is not present, instantly the delusion
comes back. And it becomes a person who’s thinking, the
story… etc etc.

SUT: So, is it on the right or the left side? These are the
concepts! Once there’s a place, there’s a concept, so that’s not
the reality. When Samādhi, concentration, is strong and you have
thoughts, but there’s not the wisdom that knows that thoughts
Some people feel like the thoughts, the mind is talking, they are thoughts, thoughts can seem very real, because samādhi
feel like the mind is talking somewhere here. Often we do this. magnifies things. The stillness makes everything so clear, then
So wherever we believe the mind to be, that’s where we will you might think a tiger is going to jump on you or something!
feel like it is experienced, unconsciously.
People really have had this experience: there was a yogi, he
Yogi: And we can just observe that? had his eyes open, he had been sitting and had a lot of
samādhi and went back to his kuti and it was dark in those
SUT: Yes, yes, you can. When you are able to objectify
days and in his imagination a tiger was coming up—he was
thought, when you are able to know that thought is what you
backing away from the tiger---he had his eyes open, but the
can observe, you can actually see that awareness is watching
imagination was so real…The image at the mind door was
thought and they are both happening. Yes you can.
much stronger than his sight, his realization of what he was
actually seeing.

95
So, when somebody develops a lot of concentration but they
don’t have enough knowledge about the manifestations of
that, it can be dangerous because they can scare themselves.
We’ve all heard some people have lost it while they’re
meditating and that’s because they develop too much
concentration. More than necessary, without enough
knowledge and they’re not able to control it, and then they get
frightened by these thoughts. They start to hear things and
they believe that somebody is talking to them, whereas our
mind talks to us all the time, right, but it starts to become a
personal thing, something personified.

Even a smell can become very real in a concentrated state. An

imagined smell, we can actually smell it.

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S ECTION 28 Yogi: Thank you. I thought it might be purification of deep
difficulties from birth.
Magga ñāṇa SUT: These defilements are called anusaya, hidden. You
can't choose to observe them because they cannot be seen. But
when magga ñāṇa arises, it sees them and uproots them.

Yogi: In your book, you mentioned that there are defilements

that have been buried for a long time and are very deep and
that sometimes you need magga ñāṇa and not vipassanā
ñāṇa. What is magga ñāṇa?

SUT: The things that are deep-rooted in our mind and are
related to our life's traumas can be uprooted with vipassanā
ñāna. But magga ñāṇa removes defilements that we are born
with, like our sakkaya dṭṭthi and all that, the things that keep
us going in saṃsāra. It takes away those defilements.

Yogi: How is it practiced in a simple way? How is it practiced

differently from vipassanā?

Interpreter: Oh no, the practice of vipassanā leads to magga

ñāṇa. It’s supposed to.

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S ECTION 29 everything happens seamlessly, because they each do what
they have to do.
Many Minds Nature is like that. All the minds do their own job. When we’re
not familiar we go and investigate. We're curious. ‘Oh,
knowing mind works like this.’

[in English] Oh, this is knowing mind. Knowing mind does

this.

And then there are other minds, like wanting mind. Wanting
Yogi: What about that Zen saying that ‘when you're chopping, mind does this. When the mind feels, it will feel. Ñāna does its
just chop’. work. Perception does its work. All these different parts of the
mind each do their own work.

SUT: Yes, but you must be aware you're chopping. Even in the
chopping, the mind is not only being aware. The mind decides
where to chop, how to chop, how thin, how fat, sideways,
square on, this way, all sorts of things.

What I want to say is that the mind has so much potential. It

has the ability to be so encompassing. We should not
underestimate the mind, we shouldn’t limit ourselves with a
belief that the mind cannot do something. Don't limit it.

As a metaphor for the mind: in a restaurant the manager will

stand at his desk and watch everything. The waiters run
around and do what they do. The customers come and sit or
place their orders and eat. The cooks cook. The dishwashers
wash. Everybody's doing their own jobs, they all carry on. And

98
In the beginning, you will take each one out and see, 'oh, this
was perception at work', 'this was mind making judgement',
'that was feeling', and so on. We try to get familiar with each
of them. After a while we can step away and just know. All of
them are part of the experience.

When the wisdom becomes skilful at recognizing and

understanding all these things are at work, then it steps away
and just knows. Once in a while, you might want to go back
closer in, check whether awareness is doing its work, or how
perception did its work, or something like that. But most of
the time, you can step back and just say 'oh, yes, everybody is
working seamlessly’. When we don't understand, yes, we have
to go in and look at each of them, understand how each
function works.

99
S ECTION 30 real and it’s not here anymore so it’s not important. And in the
crowd also, with many people, he didn’t say anything and I
Memory was telling him to remember that feeling is just a feeling, and
an image is just an image in the mind.

After the interview as the yogi was walking back he was really
upset because on retreat he is filled with all these memories
already, and he was kicking himself for not telling me the
story, for not insisting and telling because he was feeling so
lousy.

Yogi: If the mind started to produce flashbacks, how would And then somehow his mind said to him, “So what if you told
one deal with that? Sayadaw the story. What would he say?” And once he asked
that question of course the mind told him what I had said: “A
feeling is just a feeling. A thought is just a thought.”
SUT: First you have to understand what memory is. Memory
Somehow, because he was being mindful and all of it just
is something that comes about, memory is not reliable,
came together, and just then that was exactly how he saw it.
memory is just an image that the mind has, it’s not real, it’s
Suddenly it was just a feeling, it was just a thought. It wasn’t
not personal, it’s not here now, so when there are flashback
everything here, it was just the nature of what it was. It was as
we can bring these ideas to the view which it takes.
it is. And he was suddenly free, he couldn’t believe it! The next
There was another yogi I met who had been severely abused day for the interview he told me this story and he was quite
when he was young, and every time he went for a retreat he happy because he felt much freer than he had before.
would tell the teacher about what he had suffered and that
I am trying to explain how we hold on to things, our concepts
would help him a little bit, he would feel better, but it didn’t
and how it affects us.
take away all the feelings that he had, it didn’t stop his
suffering, he couldn’t seem to get out of it.

And that particular retreat, he had wanted to tell the story, but
my way is always ‘don’t tell the story’, because the story’s not

100
S ECTION 31 SUT: Yes. In those sorts of cases then it would probably be
better to watch the anger, not try to blindly send mettā.
Mettā/ Karunā Although we consciously try to generate mettā, we are unable
to because subconsciously there’s so much—maybe not even
so subconsciously—dosa that we are not able to still with the
cultivation of mettā. Sometimes it can cause a conflict. So
don’t try to have mettā if there’s real anger.

Yogi: The process that I’ve gone through with mettā is

working with the neutral. Something you feel strongly about,
Yogi: Sometimes we can generate particular states of mind, someone you feel good about, someone you feel neutral about
for example the brahmavihāra, mettā, how far is it useful? and then the aversion. But when you get the aversive person
and you still can’t do mettā…

SUT: In cases like that you can just look at the anger, not
SUT: It’s useful for calming the mind. Primarily it stills some
think about the person, look only at the feeling of anger. Focus
of the defilements, preparing the mind. It makes the
on that. And as you watch it continuously and you’re not
wholesome qualities of the mind stronger so that the
thinking, the feeling can subside. Then when there’s less of a
defilements are less.
feeling of anger you can see what effect it has.
Yogi: But it’s not enough to just do that is it? If we were to just
You will see how the anger remains when we continue to think
practice mettā and not actually look at what’s going on—
the thoughts that generate the anger. When we’re not
SUT: You can make the mind that feels mettā an object of thinking, when the mind is doing enough work so that it’s not
your awareness. Is there true mettā? How much mettā is thinking the thoughts that are generating the anger, then the
there? anger will definitely subside because there’s no generating
cause. In this way we can understand this relationship.
Yogi: But if I was practicing mettā and couldn’t feel mettā
because I was angry with the person let’s say, to notice that Sometimes we don’t have enough power to make the mind do
too? more work. The anger has more power to continue to think
about what it’s angry about.
101
There is a power that builds up when we have developed a wisdom to relieve the depression so I used samatha to still the
practice of focusing on one object continuously. We have the mind, to still the defilements. There was no understanding, so
ability to focus on one thing and can build up a lot of energy in I used the work I understood. I just kept the mind busy.
the mind in that way. When we take that kind of ability and
I always thought, how can I make the mind more peaceful?
focus that energy on to any other object like anger or pain or
How can I make the mind still? I would practice with seeing,
something, it can immediately cause that thing to subside
with hearing. I would use everything. I used a Vicks inhaler!
because the mind that focuses is so much more powerful.
[Laughter] Do you all know what that is? It’s such an obvious
You’ve built that energy from your practice.
object. If the mind started to get agitated I would sniff an
When I was practicing in lay life, so long as I wasn’t doing inhaler. [Laughter]
something actively, I kept the mind’s attention on one object
only, always. I never let the mind be free, never let the mind
be idle. I always kept it stuck on some object to be aware of.

I used to play like that, putting five fingers together and just
observing the changing touching points. If I kept the attention
on the thumb then slowly the sensation between the thumbs
would become very obvious and the other sensations would
fade from my view. When I was satisfied I would switch
fingers.

When I attended weddings—in Burma they have live bands at

weddings—I would listen to each instrument individually.
[Laughter] As an object. Just listening to the lead guitar, and
then that becomes very obvious, so switch to the bass. I was
hearing a whole orchestra but I chose one instrument to
practice the power of focusing. Once I began to understand, once the ñāṇa started to arise
and I understood more, that gave me some relief from the
I didn’t dare to leave the mind alone because it would get
depression, and then I didn’t have to focus so much anymore.
depressed. [Laughter] At that time wisdom wasn’t very strong.
The vipassanā insight wasn’t very strong. There was no
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When wisdom was growing things like this happened: if Yogi: When I see the news, you know, people throwing stones,
something made me angry I would look at anger. Because of unrest in other countries, that sense of maybe compassion
all the power built up, when I looked at the anger, the anger and one just wishing that something could be different.
would subside. When the anger was gone I would look at the
object again.
SUT: Karunā, compassion, is not pity. Karunā is a wholesome
It was the same object but now there would be no anger and I
state. When you feel pure karunā, it feels good. The energy of
would see a completely different view. That’s how I
the mind is good. Very gentle.
understood the relationship between mind and object. And
then the mind began to understand: it is possible to think of Yogi: No sadness?
an object this way. It is possible to regard an object this way,
not just with anger, but from a different perspective. SUT: There’s no sadness. The sadness has veered into dosa
because of the lack of wisdom. There are pairs of emotions
Naturally when the mind is angry it sees negatively, it sees the that are very similar to each other and are easily mistaken for
situation negatively. When there’s no longer anger, naturally one another. Lust and loving kindness are very close, and
positive points of view can be seen, reasonable thoughts are sometimes they get twisted. Compassion and anger are very
possible, and it is possible to forgive. All this becomes possible commonly confused. Contentment and laziness, indifference
when the mind is not angry. When the state of mind changes, and uppekkhā.
the thoughts change.
Yogi: Compassion and anger?
These are principles that I learnt. I began to learn these
concepts from my own experience. If I do this, it relieves the SUT: It’s the word dosa, aversion, not anger—we always think
mind in this way. If I think in this way, it relieves the mind in of dosa as anger, but dosa is not only anger...
that way. When I am agitated and have aversion, pain is
[in English]: First mind is karunā but next mind is becoming
experienced in a certain way. When there’s no more aversion,
dosa…
the same pain is experienced in a completely different way.
Dosa is the wanting something not to be how it is. It’s
__________________________________________
aversion. It’s very subtle. So when you feel sad, you don’t want
something to be this way, the not-accepting is the dosa. It’s
very subtle.

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Yogi: The near and the far? SUT: If it was pure compassion then he would not have been
so agitated, he would not have been so compulsively
SUT: Yes! The near and far.
unaccepting. So there was a lot of unacceptance mixed up in
Yogi: Karunā is recognizing the suffering and desire to help? what he was feeling.

SUT: Yes, the desire to help is always a part of compassion. The mind twists and turns us and we don’t have enough
wisdom. We have to be careful. When we see our own minds
Yogi: Not to dwell on the negativity. we can see those subtle differences.

SUT: Yes. You want to bring relief but you’re not feeling sad
for their state. You accept their state and you want to help.

Yogi: It can be something very positive.

SUT: It is very positive. The Buddha was the compassionate

one.

A Vietnamese monk came to the centre and he went on the

alms round and he saw all the poor villagers and he felt so sad
for them, he was so overcome with grief for them, he couldn’t
meditate. He thought he had so much compassion for them,
he felt so sad for them, and he couldn’t meditate any more. In
the end he had to take a collection and go and donate the
money to the villagers and then he finally felt satisfied.

And then I asked the rest of the Vietnamese. Why did he have
to do that? Why was he not able to meditate? Who was he
trying to relieve?

Yogi: Himself.

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S ECTION 32 Stronger minds can affect weaker minds. Minds that are more
powerful have a very powerful influencing effect on other
Mind Power minds.

Samādhi is a very attractive quality. When someone has very

strong samādhi, you notice people want to follow them. They
want to do what they say. Sometimes these people don't even
have to speak, people just want to be close to them. They want
to be their followers. They want to do what this person wants
them to do. It's a very strong, attractive quality.
Yogi: The explanation I give myself is that our mind is not Yogi: Is it the same with mettā or people praying together?
contained within ourselves. That it is somehow universal. It's Because it's a combined energy?
not just contained here, it’s more than that.
SUT: Each individual mind has power, and when many people
gather together to put their minds towards one object then
that power is magnified.
SUT: Yes, the mind does have power. But it's just the power of
the mind, particularly when there is good concentration and If you come into a space where you have a lot of greedy people
so on in the mind. But don't overestimate it, either. together you can feel the energy. If you go into a space where
there are a lot of angry people you can feel the energy. It's the
Yogi: Is the mind connected to other minds?
same with positive minds: you can feel the difference in a
SUT: Separate. place where there are a lot of people doing mettā together.
You can feel the difference in a place where there are a lot of
Yogi: Sometimes if people concentrate a lot here, someone
people who have wisdom.
else feels it. Is there connection at some higher level? Are all
the minds connected?

SUT: They're not connected. They influence each other.

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S ECTION 33 natural process, a cause and effect relationship. Nobody did it,
it’s just a natural act.
Mind Process So if you see this whole process, sometimes the realization
that this is a process of nature, anatta, can arise. You can see
the desire to eat and the salivating happen at the same time.
Nobody made the saliva, you can’t do intentionally. It’s body
and mind working together as a process.

The more we see these cause-effect relationships in

everything, the more we realize there’s nobody there. It’s just
Yogi: I notice that there’s patterns to the thinking. Sometimes a process doing its own thing. We have these experiences
I notice that I’m thinking of food and then I realize that I’m daily, but we seldom have a realization that it’s just cause and
hungry. I may be in discomfort so then I might be feeling effect. Understanding doesn’t arise when we are full of our
irritated, so sometimes then I notice that I’m irritated and normal defilements and just carrying on.
then I realize that I’m in discomfort as well. There’s
conditioning of the thoughts, they’re related to what’s going __________________________________________
on maybe physically, or the weather, or something like that.
Yogi: How can one be aware of mind process?
There may be memory recurring but then the emotion might
be that it’s some sort of regret or remorse, or boredom. So I’m
just entertaining myself as well. I’m very interested to know SUT: The more you watch your mind the more you will slowly
what Sayadaw thinks about thoughts, how to look at these start to see what is behind. It takes a lot of practice, always
thoughts, what patterns they have. trying to recognize everything the mind thinks and does, how
it colours and shades—everything. The more you watch the
more you start to recognize new, little things, more new
SUT: When you see all this conditioning, these patterns, things, and then it becomes a full picture.
relationships in the things that happen in the mind naturally,
For example, in our room most things are always in the same
we begin to understand the nature of this mind a little bit
place, we are very familiar with it. Perhaps we always keep our
more. When we’re hungry we want to eat, we salivate. It’s a
glasses in one place. We do these things all the time and our
106
mind remembers them, but we are not aware that the mind Because they saw the mind doing this, they saw the mind
has done these things. When you switch off the light you can remembering things. The mind is doing this all the time.
still find your way around the room, you don’t bang into the
If you are that mindful then if something new is put in your
dresser or the bed, but we didn’t see the mind doing all that.
room you will notice immediately. If something is missing you
There must be some level of awareness that means the mind
will also notice immediately. And if we are also always aware
has remembered the things.
of seeing, that also will support noticing whether something is
missing. If we watch the mind we’ll notice how, as we walk up
the stairs, the mind gauges how far we should move for every
step. The mind is always working.

If we walk up the same stairs every day and someone puts an

extra inch on one of the steps, we’ll definitely trip over it
because the mind has remembered where it used to be. Every
day, whether we’re conscious of it or not, the mind works in
this way.

If someone is quite aware, he will know where things are in

the room. And if someone is actually aware of their mind then
the whole process of why they remember becomes clearer.

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S ECTION 34 is being known does not know itself. That is why it is the
object. An object cannot know itself, only the knowing can
Nāma-rūpa know the object.

All these objects, such as sound and so on, don’t have the
ability to know themselves. Sound cannot know itself, sound
cannot know that it is sound, sound just arises. That’s what I
realized for myself.

So nāma-rūpa, just like the ‘I’, is a name that we give to

certain realities. The Buddha explained these realities and
Yogi: There are the six sense objects: sight, sound, touch, indicated that on the one hand there are phenomena called
taste, smell and thought or mind objects. Is it possible to nāma that share certain characteristics, and on the other hand
know them, to realize that they are rūpa, and to realize that there are phenomena called rūpa that have other
the mind that’s observing is mind, nāma? And to realize that characteristics. It is for us to understand this.
rūpa is arising and passing away and that nāma is arising and
passing away? Yogi: So, to begin with, we look at it as sound as sound, not as
rūpa?

SUT: Yes, just sound as sound.

SUT: Understanding that something is rūpa is very different
from hearing the theory of it. To realize that this is just rūpa is
an insight. First you need to have that insight. Why do we say
that sound is rūpa? Why don’t we say that sound is mind? We
have heard the theory but we don’t really know it in our own
experience, we don’t truly understand.

It’s not that I have never thought about this question.

Somebody recently asked a similar question and a partial
answer occurred to me: simply because I am so conscious of
the nature of knowing it was immediately clear that whatever

108
S ECTION 35

Nibbāna SUT: In the Buddha Dhamma it is wisdom that wants

nibbāna. But when I speak to the yogis, I realize that yogis
who want to be enlightened, all of us, just have greed to be
enlightened. We think it will be bring us something better.

__________________________________________

Yogi: Does an enlightened person have to maintain that

enlightenment? Some teachers say you can lose the
Yogi: Everyone seems to want enlightenment. But I don’t even enlightenment, you have to keep practicing. Some people say
know what it is. What is it? there is enlightening rather than enlightenment because you
have to keep constantly…

SUT: It’s not just you who doesn’t know what enlightenment
is, none of us do! So anybody who says they want SUT: In Theravāda, I agree with the ‘enlightening’ but only as
enlightenment doesn’t actually really know what they say they far as vipassanā ñāṇa, the insights, are concerned. And it’s
want. the same with awareness and samādhi. Because the mind
always arises to pass away we cannot hang on to the quality
Interpreter: I was telling a yogi today about something unless we develop it one more time. It leaves the legacy, so it’s
Sayadaw said a long time ago: that you, that is to say the there, but if you don’t practice it one more time it gets less.
delusion of you, think that you want nibbāna. But if ‘you’ saw
nibbāna you would run away because ‘you’ is created by So it’s always up and down. You have to remain aware all the
delusion and delusion does not want to be enlightened. time so the awareness becomes stronger and stronger. If you
Delusion wants to stay deluded, so you would run away, and stop being aware, the awareness will become weaker and
not even just from nibbāna, but even from a normal vipassanā weaker.
insight. When people realize anattā and there is no sense of
If you have an insight into anattā, dukkha, anicca, or
self they often cry because they are so affected by the sense of
whatever, you have to continue to be aware to allow that
loss.
understanding to continue to be fresh in the mind. If you
109
don’t, the understanding will fade as the awareness fades. So Yogi: Magga-phala citta.
that is true. That is the enlightening bit.
SUT: Yes, magga-phala ñāṇa or citta. That’s why we
But in Theravāda there is the magga ñāṇa and the phala ñāṇa. mustn’t look for the object or chase the object, we have to
If you become enlightened to that degree, then that bit is change the mind. The mind always takes the object that
permanent, that bit cannot be taken away from you. matches its quality. I talked earlier about subtle minds not
being able to have gross objects, in the same way once the
Yogi: You don’t forget.
mind’s quality is strong enough and it matches that level of
__________________________________________ purity… You are not in charge, it’s the work of wisdom, and
Yogi: What is Sayadaw’s description of nibbāna? when that wisdom strikes…

SUT: I only know the theory behind it, it says when there is no
greed, anger, or delusion, there’s nibbāna. I don’t know about
nibbāna as an object, but the Buddha has described it as the
mind without greed, aversion, or delusion.

The way I see it is that I can understand that a mind can be

without greed, aversion, or delusion in the moment, so I work
towards that and refining that. I don’t know whether the
object nibbāna exists or not, so I’ll forget about it. The mind is
a bit closer, more familiar to us.

Yogi: Kusala mind is nibbāna, meaning there’s no lobha, dosa,

moha?

SUT: I wouldn’t say that, nibbāna is the object of a particular

mind, the magga ñāṇa and the phala ñāṇa. Nāṇa is wisdom,
so a particular kind of wisdom mind has nibbāna as its object.
Not all minds take nibbāna as their object.

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S ECTION 36 and the thought will stop. You already know the thought, just
maintain it like that. You're in the right balance. When you're
Objects in the right balance you might be looking at something but
you know other things as well. They impinge on your
awareness. The main object keeps the mind energised and
that energy allows you then to receive all the other senses as
well. That’s the right way.

What I am concerned about is people thinking their mind is

distracted when they come to the stage where they're aware of
the main object and other objects, and then trying harder and
Yogi: In my previous practice I used to choose an object. But
harder to focus on the one object in order to block out the
Sayadaw is saying not to choose an object. Sometimes I find I
others, thinking they shouldn't know the other things. What I
need to choose an object to maintain mindfulness and avoid
am is saying is that at that point it's fine. The mind is in a
torpor.
balanced state. It is knowing things. You're not distracted.
You just know more things.

SUT: Yes, you can choose an object. It is a question of skilful It means that the ability to know is strong. The awareness is
means: when the mind is not able to choose its own object expanded. We have a strange misconception that we need to
naturally you have to make the mind choose an object. keep the mind on one object for the samādhi to be strong.
That's not really true.
Some people do it this way: they use a main object and build
up the awareness and clarity, and when they feel very clear Even using only one object, if we're doing it right it should get
and aware then they gently let go of the main object and see to the point where, when the mindfulness is expanded, we
what else is there. You still maintain some awareness of the know the main object and other objects. We feel clear, as if we
main object but then other things become clear as well. have a bird’s eye view.

In the Czech Republic, this yogi was watching an object and The problem is that we often take one object and then get
then he saw a thought. When he asked if he should look at the sunk into that one object. We never sort of come out of the
thought, I said, “No, don't look at the thought, you already object and just know.
know it.” Because once you do that there's a bit more energy
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__________________________________________ SUT: [in English] Yes. And change attitude.

Yogi: I’ve got ringing in the ears, so that's like an object as Change the ideas. ‘This is natural, it's not a problem.’
well. This week I used it as an observation.
Yogi: Is aversion or greed operating no matter what object you
Interpreter: Do you like the ringing in your ears? are looking at?

SUT: When there is a wrong view, greed and aversion can

come.
Yogi: It's never really bothered me too much until this week.
[in English] Wrong thoughts.
Interpreter: Until you took it as an object.
__________________________________________
Yogi: I'm kind of semi-struggling, using it as an object, trying
to let it go. If there’s anything that could be said it would be Yogi: If we don’t use an object that we like or dislike—but
helpful. when something emerges like fear or greed or something
that's an object of aversion or—
SUT: When you don't like an object, don't make it your
meditation object.

[in English] Don't use it as a meditation object. If you have SUT: [in English] Aversion of the aversion.
liking or disliking for some object, you should not use it as a
Yogi: There's something about looking at the greed or looking
meditation object. First take care of your liking or disliking. If
at the fear... What you're saying is, don't take it as an object?
you're neutral, then you can use any object. If you're not
reacting. Reaction is problem, right? SUT: There is the defilement that arises in the mind and you
can observe it, like anger arising in the mind. Anger is an
Interpreter: So when you have a reaction to an object, that
object, right?
object is no longer a dhamma object for you because it's an
aversion object or an attachment object. It is no longer a What I ask you to watch out for is the same. Whether the
neutral object. That's why you shouldn't observe the object object is anger or ringing in the ears you have to check
directly anymore. whether there is aversion to having this object or experience.
Do you like the ringing in the ears? Do you like anger? And
Yogi: And then be aware of that aversion?
112
that is in the watching mind. That's what I want you to watch at it, it was not. So I was just observing how I felt, how the
out for. Sometimes it can get into a cycle. You don't like sounds can be… my perception deceiving me… but looking
having wrong attitude and then you try to watch that with down, the fear comes, or no fear, whatever… That’s reporting
wrong attitude because you want it to go away. today’s activities in that way.

At that point you really have to stop. Don't keep meditating. SUT: So it’s good to recognize… You need to be interested like
Don't keep observing anymore. You have to stop and think this, attention to your mind.
about what you should do before continuing. Then you have to
Yogi: Not only the object, but whatever is happening… The
start with something completely neutral, something that is not
feeling becomes the mind state.
going to agitate the mind. At that point it's like quicksand, the
more you do, the more you sink. So just don't go there. Stay SUT: Those are objects too. Objects are not just outside but
still. what’s in your mind is also an object.
Yogi: But sometimes you can observe dosa non-aversively?

Interpreter: Yes, correct. You can. That's what he's saying.

Yogi: That's when it really starts to become clear…

SUT: [in English] Right, right.

When we're not looking through coloured glasses then we can

do anything. We can watch any object. Yes.

__________________________________________

Yogi: Today’s experience, like travelling through the dam, I

was observing my thinking mind, it’s just quite, quite neutral,
you can see the beauty, the expanse, but the minute you step
down and you’re very near to the edge of the dam, a bit of was
fear arising. And also when we first went down there was a
very loud water sound, it’s as if a big waterfall, but when I look

113
Yogi: So how can we observe? SUT: Can you feel the touching sensation when you tap your
fingers together? Do you feel it on the index finger or the
SUT: Like this, yes, better. I went to Hong Kong, and there
thumb? When it touches, is it one touch or two touches? Very
was a retreat centre on a tiny little knoll. I told the yogis that
interesting. Which side is more obvious? Does it feel as if it’s
they can sit anywhere they like.
touching more on the index finger or the thumb? I do it all the
Only five people sat in the meditation hall, a lot of people time. Try it now. Which side is more obvious?
went down to the water side to sit. So one yogi was talking
Most people think it’s more on the thumb because there’s a
about how he went to the bottom of the little knoll, and the
larger area on the thumb. But actually it depends on where
water’s quite far, it’s quite rocky, and he was sitting there with
you put your attention.
his eyes closed, and it’s very peaceful because you hear the
water and all that, and then as his concentration got better at Yogi: Before I thought to myself index finger, but when you
one point he thought the water was really close, he thought said thumb and you put your mind on thumb, I thought
the tide was coming in. He opened his eyes and it was still far thumb.
away. So you recognize how the mind does that.
SUT: So put it on both sides and you’ll feel two.
But maybe he wouldn’t have realized that if he was sitting in
Yogi: Because the index finger is the one that moves…
the Dhamma Hall!
SUT: So that’s what I want to say: the object is never the full
But that’s not always true: there was one yogi sitting in the
picture. Where is the mind? How is it working? That makes
Dhamma Hall and he got really angry because he thought
the difference as to how you experience the object.
somebody shouted in his ear so he looked up to glare at the
person—nobody was there—there was someone on the far side Yogi: You create your own experience?
of the hall!
Interpreter: Yes!
Because when your awareness and your concentration are
more present, then you feel like the objects are very near to Yogi: Can you create nibbāna?
you, like everything that is experienced is very close to you.
SUT: Yes, you can—a false one. If you’re creating it, yes.
__________________________________________

114
S ECTION 37 knower you already know the objects. If you choose the object
you may not know the knower but if you know the knower
Observing the Observing then you cannot help but know the object.

Mind/ The Knower __________________________________________

Yogi: I find it’s very easy to get pulled into trying to work out
the defilement by using thought. The question is, can you not
make that see-er, that knower, the object? Continually try to
be instead of falling into what you’re hearing, et cetera?

Interpreter: Yes, you can see the knower and make that the
object. That’s what he calls—
Yogi: What about observing the observing mind?
SUT: Watching mind.

Interpreter: He uses different words sometimes but basically

SUT: That's it, that’s the state where you feel there's a broader
that, observing the awareness, or knowing the awareness, or
view. You can sense that there's something that is aware.
knowing the watching mind.
That's the watching mind.
Yogi: So basically the whole thing is to pull back into that
__________________________________________
continually?
Yogi: Sayadaw has made us aware that there is an array of
SUT: So long as you are conscious of the knower, the knower
objects and there is the knower. So we can either be aware of
continues to know, and it feeds itself knowing, knowing,
the knower or be aware of the objects that it is knowing. I
knowing.
found that there is a battle going on between the two. Which
one to know? The knower or the object? When we’re not conscious or acknowledging or recognizing
the knower, then we are not sure if the knower is at work or
not, whether we have got sucked into the object or we’re
SUT: Take the knower if you can know it. Because the knower knowing the object.
comes with the known, with the objects. If you know the

115
Whatever we see, whatever we are aware of, if we are aware of SUT: Just leave it like that. Just recognize there’s a sense of I
three things, you know there is a fourth thing because that’s there. Now the mind believes that the watcher is ‘me’ because
what’s seeing the three. If you know two things, there are now the watcher is more constant. Yes?
actually three things, because the third thing is the seeing. If
Yogi: It’s almost like the watcher feels the mind is working for
you know four things there is a fifth that is seeing the four. So
him—, or working against him—, or working in parallel with
you must remember this.
him.

SUT: So you see how subtly the mind works. Everything else
can be an object but the mind says, ‘This is mine.’ This ‘this’ is
not changing, it seems to be a constant, so the mind attaches
the 'I' to it. That’s why you must recognize the knowing as
well, recognize the watcher. Then when you recognize the
watcher and all that’s happening is a stream of watchers
knowing watchers knowing watchers knowing watchers…
That’s when, again, it becomes an object, so slightly less
attachment to the 'I'.

There was a Japanese yogi. He said, “Honestly, I just can’t

wrap my head around it. There is a me, this is me, I can’t
believe there is no me.”
__________________________________________ So I said, “Okay, let’s start at the physical, just remove your
Yogi: At a subtle level, while I am meditating, I’m watching hair, your eyes, your ears, your skin, your bones, remove all of
the mind attach to objects. And I can’t help but think, ‘Oh yes, that and what’s left? Which part is you?”
it’s attaching to this object, I’m watching it attach to this “OK, maybe not the physical, but I am paying attention, that’s
object.’ But then there’s always the I that is watching the back definitely me. I am the one who is doing this work.”
of the mind working. So how…
I say, “Okay. And are you aware all the time? Are you paying
attention all the time? Are you always there then? What about

116
when you are asleep? You can’t pay attention then, where are arise together. Know all that. Also, perhaps the reason that
you?” you don’t see that the watcher is changing is because maybe
you don’t have a grasp of reality yet.
Yogi: Sometimes I know if the watcher has been present for a
while, and I intimately say, “Thank you watcher.” It seems like And then when you have two or three different objects, think
I’m distancing myself from the watcher. about it. When there are two or three different objects, is it
the same mind knowing each object? Or does each object have
SUT: Yes, in thanking the watcher you acknowledge that it’s
something knowing it?
something separate again. That gives the backing-up and
recognizing it. Just keep going steadily. The knower is closest to us, to the
‘me’. Until you take another step, until the mind steps back
__________________________________________
another bit and sees the watcher itself, before that happens it
Yogi: I’ve been watching the knower a lot for six or seven feels like the watcher is ‘me’. The mind is very fast and very
years, I don't notice any difference. It seems always the same subtle. At a subtle level, many functions of mind are operating
really. I was doing the dishes a couple of days ago and all of a at the same time. When we get a glimpse into that, when we
sudden I just felt the dishes, and it was like—I can’t exactly get an insight into that, we understand the mind is constantly
say this—but it was like for a moment no one was there. I in flux. That’s when by reference there can be an
mean fear came in actually. understanding also that the watcher is not fixed.

For example take intention, intention to do something. The

intention to do something follows the action throughout so
SUT: This is normal. That’s a flash of wisdom into reality and that the moment the intentions stop, the movements stop.
then fear. And then the intention to remain still begins and stays until
another intention arises. If you can see these intentions you
Yogi: I thought that there were just circumstances that
will realize that there are new ones all the time.
produced that, I could tell that. And then the knower stood
out much more clearly for a while.

SUT: The object and the knowing of it are like a coin, so you
know the watcher, the knower. The watcher knows the object
because of the sense of knowing of the object, both of which __________________________________________

117
Yogi: Is the knower the knowing? This teacher from America describes it quite well, she says
when she watches thought—she says thoughts come in words
through the mind—when she looked at the beginning of the
SUT: We use different words, the knower, the see-er, the thought it stopped, but she already knew the thought so her
watching mind, and all that. We use so many different words mind didn’t have to spell it out completely. That’s how subtly
to try to get everybody to understand the same thing, but it’s the mind has already done the thinking. By the time the
definitely not a person. sentence has come out in our heads it’s a very gross level

Yogi: So the moment that we become aware, or the moment

we know that we are aware, there is a moment of recognition
there, and is that like a thought? We can’t know we’re aware
without a thought being there.

SUT: Yes that is a thought. Whenever there’s recognition

there has always already been a thought. Our mind’s natural
habit is always to identify things with words. That’s how we
know things or concepts. So when the thought is about what
we are experiencing, that’s when we are very sure ‘I have
experienced this’. And that’s when the memory of it is also
much stronger, once we can describe it to ourselves.

Sometimes we experience things but we don’t put any words thought, but at a very subtle level we’ve already done the
to it. We know we have experienced it but it’s easy to let those thinking, the giving meaning.
experiences go by and not really retain them.

Yogi: So in the moment before that naming is applied, there is

Sometimes a whole story can be over in a split second in our
like a vedanā, a recognition in an amorphous sense?
minds. Our minds then express it in words or images, but the
SUT: Yes, it is upon what we already know that we then give beginning of the process was much earlier, at a very subtle
meaning, define and describe. level.

118
And sometimes we may recognize that there is a thought but it And he worked very hard, he was very mindful all the time,
doesn’t come up to the gross level. We know there was a and he applied this concept all the time. Then he began to
thought but we don’t know what we were thinking. We just notice that the knower didn’t change. In his experience
know that the mind seems to have done something. everything else was changing but the knower did not change.
Sometimes the mind is singing. [Laughter] Because the momentum was there the experience of the
knower had become more and more constant, and he said to
__________________________________________
me, “Should I watch the knower too, and make it
impermanent in a sense?” I said, “Oh, please don't do that!”

Yogi: When you meditate you are supposed to observe all the There must be real understanding. You don't artificially apply
changing phenomena, in-breath, out-breath and so on. But this concept, you might block the real understanding by
the observer, the knower, doesn't seem to change, it seems to artificially applying it. Because he was working very hard I
remain neutral. And that's quite different from what the was quite confident that if he just kept knowing the knower,
Buddha taught, that everything is impermanent. Can Sayadaw eventually, certainly, he was going to discover that the knower
elaborate on this please? was impermanent somehow.

The yogi had already worked hard to get to the point that the
knower was constantly there, I just wanted him to stay
SUT: That’s why you must also know the mind. When you knowing, not forgetting.
know the knower more deeply you will begin to see that the
knower is also changing. In some Dhamma circles there is the idea that we have to try
to see, to understand what we are taught theoretically. Like
There was this monk, he was practicing the techniques to impermanence, dukkha, and anatta. And they try to purposely
intellectually apply the concept of impermanence on to intellectually understand that.
everything he observe. So whatever happens, ‘Oh, this is
impermanent, this is impermanent, this is impermanent.’ My teacher used to say to me, don't assume that what you
Whether you understand it or not, you remind yourself ‘this is have experienced is impermanence, anatta or dukkha. Let the
impermanent’. Arising and passing, that it must always be like understanding arise naturally. Let the understanding come to
that. you.

[in English] Appear in the mind naturally, this is more real.

119
That's the bhāvanā-mayapaññā, developed wisdom. When we the other thing is, who is watching the knower? [Laughter]
apply it intellectually, ‘I think this is impermanence, I think The ego or…?
this is such-and-such…’ then because we are busy applying
SUT: The watching mind watching you watch the objects is
our own normal reasoning, that natural wisdom is not allowed
actually the watching mind seeing the knowing mind or the
to arise.
objects. But, because the mind always needs to reference ‘me’,
Some people observe things and think, ‘This has arisen and in this case your mind has made the knowing mind ‘me’. So
passed away, this is arising and passing away,’ and they the watcher is watching the knowing mind that knows the
believe that seeing that experience is the understanding of objects, but you’ve made the knowing mind ‘me’.
impermanence. But the understanding of impermanence is
As far as the tension in the head goes, the fact that sometimes
very different from experiencing something arising and
it’s clear and sometimes it’s not just depends on the
passing away.
momentum of the awareness and the natural building of the
[in English] Now you hear? [claps] Do you understand wisdom that understands that there are different natures at
impermanence? work, the objects and the knowing or the watching.

Interpreter: No, we just hear the sound. If you see the watching mind, fair enough, let it be. If you
don’t see the watching mind it doesn’t matter. That’s when the
SUT [in English] Experience is here but no understanding.
mind is at a stage where it needs to be building the
So there is experience but no understanding. So it's not right momentum again.
to artificially decide, “Oh, this must mean impermanence,” or
Once the conditions are right, the watching mind will appear
something like that.
naturally again. It’s always there, it’s just whether we are able
__________________________________________ to realize it’s there or not, and that happens when there’s
enough awareness. Particularly when you have this ‘three-
Yogi: Sometimes it feels clear that the watcher is watching me stage watching’, where there’s a watching of the knowing,
watch, and sometimes it’s not so clear and I feel a tension in knowing the objects. That has a lot to do with understanding.
the back of my head. I’m not sure if it’s just tension or the And that happens naturally, we can’t think about it and try to
knower having…. maybe I’m trying too hard. So perhaps a separate them. When it sees enough it will understand that
comment around how one knows where the knower is. And there are these three natures. Then you will see the three at
work.
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As far as who is watching or knowing the watcher, once you
understand the nature of how the knowing and the watching
are happening, once you understand that in fact it’s just a
knowing of the previous knowing and then the next knowing
knows that, and then the next knowing knows that… Then you
will understand that although it feels like there is one thing
hovering there it is a stream, but it is also renewing itself and
knowing itself.

Yogi: When you think about it, sometimes it seems like it’s
merged with the ‘me’, even though it feels separate.

SUT: Yes, that’s right. It’s just different levels of

understanding due to how much awareness-wisdom there is
at that moment.

What you want to do is simply recognize that in this moment

there is this much understanding, the mind thinks the
watcher is me. And then at other times the mind sees the
watcher as not me. Just recognizing when it’s like this and
when it’s like that.

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S ECTION 38 the tension immediately starts to grow in the mind. So you
want to look at the mind to keep the tension down.
Pain, Anxiety & Fear You will notice that so long as you can keep the mind relaxed
the pain will be bearable. When the tension starts to grow in
the mind and the tension in the mind becomes unbearable,
that is when you have to make yourself comfortable.

The reason I tell you to practice this way, to avoid the pain
when it is unbearable, is because you want to cultivate
wholesome states of mind, you don’t want to cultivate akusala
Yogi: How do you handle bodily pain from sitting? I’m feeling minds. If you sit and clench your teeth and bear unbearable
anxious sometimes and fearful of it. pain, then what the mind is doing is reacting, there is a lot of
aversion and you’re just cultivating a lot of akusala minds. I
don’t want you to do that.
SUT: The first thing your mind must know is that if you really
Instead, watch the reaction for as long as you are able, so
can’t take it you can change your posture, then the mind will
there is still awareness and kusala; when you are not able,
not be so fearful. You must remind yourself that the pain is
change your posture and start again from where you are able,
not yours. You are not in pain, pain is a phenomenon, it’s a
so the awareness is continuous and you’re not fighting.
natural phenomenon, and it’s arising. That’s how you need to
approach it. There is no need to look at the pain directly. As you watch the
state of mind, you will notice how the pain feels when the
When the pain arises, right from the beginning, watch how
mind is calm. You will notice how much more painful it feels
your mind is feeling towards it. Is it anxious? Is it already
when the mind is more tense. And you will understand the
worried about the pain? And always remember to relax, relax
relationship between mind reaction and experience. Always
and then look at the feeling. Don’t look at the pain directly,
only watch for as long as you are able. It’s a learning process
always look at how the mind is reacting towards the pain,
so you try your best, but once there is too much tension in the
whether the mind is reacting, how it’s thinking of the pain. If
mind allow yourself to become comfortable.
you look at the pain directly and you don’t look at the mind,

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And as you watch this, you become more and more able to
relax the mind. You might find it interesting to watch the
relationship between the tension in the mind and the pain.
And then you will find that you are slowly able to sit with it
longer in order to understand it better. Each time you
understand a little more which allows you to do this. Don’t be
afraid, you can change your position anytime.

Yogi: Sometimes it’s so painful that even if you change

posture it’s still painful! [Laughter]

SUT: Because the mind has been reacting very strongly, you
have been forcing yourself to sit.

Yogi: Yes, I feel tense.

__________________________________________
SUT: There was a yogi who was sitting with a lot of pain. It
was so painful—he could stand it but he was just forcing Yogi: The other day I was talking about aches and pains and
himself to sit—and then clock struck. When the clock struck how I was having anxiety and fear. After Sayadaw gave some
the hour, even though he hadn’t yet moved, there was no more instruction I separated the body from the mind and I felt
pain! He was so relieved. Once the mind is relieved it doesn’t better. More relaxed. I mean I was having bodily aches so I
feel painful anymore. separated that from being anxious and thinking about it.

‘Painful’ is the name that aversion, dosa, gives to a sensation. Interpreter: ‘Separate’ meaning you were watching it
If you can really get to the point where you can relax the mind separately? As an object? You know the mind is different from
until there is no dosa, until the mind is actually feeling quite the body.
neutral, you can look at that same sensation and you’ll find,
Yogi: Previously when aches and pains arose I ignored them
once the mind is able to relax that much, it’s just an
and just kept on sitting until it was quite painful and then I
interesting sensation to observe. Instead of a solid kind of
would change my posture. But now I can feel one spot is like a
hard sensation you will find that it becomes much softer, that
there’s more movement.
123
current and then it went off. And then another spot came up again. It worked. And when it started again, I just open my
again, and then another spot, it’s all different spots. eyes a bit, looking down, and again it helped.

SUT: That’s good. In reality pain is not solid, pain is many SUT: Yes, that’s enough.
different sensations together.
Actually it’s because you are watching the state of the mind so
When you say, ‘separating the mind and the body’, in fact the carefully, so awareness is good, the mind is stable. Because
mind is just recognizing that they are different natures. There you are aware of the state of mind you maintained stability of
are two different objects: there’s sensation in the body which mind. When the mind is stable it’s neutral. When the mind is
is interpreted as pain, and there is mind, and the mind has neutral a gross object cannot manifest so there can be no
reaction towards the pain, such as anxiety, fear, or knowing. painful experience. When the mind becomes gross, agitated,
So you see that they are two different natures: this is the mind then it can take in a gross object, that’s when things can feel
bit and this is the body bit, right? That is the separation, painful. So you must always watch the state of your mind.
understanding that there is a difference in the nature of mind
and body.

This is what you are calling ‘a separation,’ because you’re

seeing its different nature. But if the mind accidentally
interprets this as separating it from me—there’s no me in fact
—then that might bring the sense of fear you mentioned.

__________________________________________

Yogi: I’ve been having problems with pain, I’ll sit and then
after thirty-five minutes the pain will come. It’s habitual—I
know. So after Sayadaw spoke about opening the eyes, what I
tried today was during a few sits I opened my eyes, and just
seeing, seeing. I was very careful that it was the mind state I
was looking at. And it worked, no pain. And I closed my eyes

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S ECTION 39 __________________________________________

Patience/ Persistence Yogi:I find what Sayadaw is saying about persistence very
helpful. There was a time when I would listen to a lot of
different talks. You just pick some things out and then you
listen to another teacher and then it starts to get confusing.

I’ve also tried it the other way round. I would just keep
listening to the same talk again and again and again. And I
would hear new things and it would get deeper and deeper.

Yogi: What about growing true patience, khanti?

SUT: Yes, familiarity. I don’t know if you have a better word

for it. It’s not just familiarity, maybe intimacy. You know, you
SUT: True patience, true khanti comes when there is wisdom, get so close to the subject because you study it over and over
otherwise it’s tolerating, there is some impatience, enduring and over again, whether it’s awareness or listening to a
but not real… If you are trying to be patient we are already Dhamma talk and taking more and more information from it
impatient. When there is true wisdom you don’t even have to to apply to your practice. When you get so close to it, that’s
try, you feel patient, you feel accepting. when you know everything possible about it and you become
skilful.
When there is wisdom and the wholesome states arise, then
depending on the object, that’s what you call the mind. If it’s Is there anybody here who plays computer games? Then you
an equal object you feel mettā, if it’s somebody who is really know. Because when you play a game, you go through
suffering more than you, then it’s karuṇā, if it’s somebody Level 1 again and again and again until you’re skilful enough
who is doing better than you, it’s muditā, and if it’s something to get to Level 2! By that time you know what’s coming.
you can’t help, it’s uppekkhā. It comes naturally because of Because you play over and over again, you become more
wisdom. skilful. You cultivate the same thing again and again,
numerous times, abundantly.
[in English] Depend on the object, the mind naturally comes.
This is real, not try, at that time no need to try.

125
The Buddha would expound some verse or another, and then
if somebody had understood, he would say, “Please cultivate
this understanding. You’ve understood, cultivate this
understanding over and over again.”

126
S ECTION 40 frequency is not matched anymore, then it doesn’t see the
object.
Personal Effort/ Right It’s like tuning your spectacles, you know, when you go to the
Effort/ Effortless spectacle shop and they put in the different degrees. And if
they put in too much it becomes blurred, when it’s not enough
it’s also blurred. But when it’s the right degree, the right
frequency, you see clearly.

When the mind is working naturally then usually the right

frequency is there. And then sometimes we put in our
Yogi: I remember I read in one of Sayadaw’s books not to look personal effort, we want to see it more, perhaps a little bit of
at the object, just look from the corner of your eye, look at the greed thinking we can see it more clearly, then the balance
mind, look at how the mind reacts to the object. can sometimes go out.

__________________________________________
SUT: Yes. This looking out of the corner of the eye, it denotes Yogi: A question about flies. [Laughter] I tried to go for walk
how in fact we’ve already seen the object. It’s already seen. without a fly net, I tried to be patient with them—
Because the tendency of the yogi is, when something is
already seen, to want to turn and look at it. We want to focus
on it, but it has already been seen.
SUT: Recognize. ‘Trying to be’ is hard. ‘Recognize what is’ is
When you’re looking at the workings of the mind and the easier. It takes less effort. It is more natural. You don’t have to
mind is just in this receiving state, then all the objects that are do anything, you just have to know. The mind is impatient, it
matched with this mind are known, yes? Just like that, like doesn’t like this, it wants to push it away.
from the corner of the eye and so on.
__________________________________________
At that time when the yogi turns and pays attention to the
Yogi: I was sort of labeling because there’s so much coming in:
objects, sometimes it’s like too much effort to see, and then
seeing, hearing, seeing, touching. Recognizing all this was too
sometimes it feels like the object disappears because the
tiring. So then I just stopped and noticed something a bit like

127
a wide experience. Nothing is focused on but everything is will understand, and that’s what will come to you in a flash
known, and I feel like I’m just resting, I’m not doing when you see it.
anything… [Laughter]
For example, eye surgeons study for years but when they are
skilful they do the operations very quickly. They already know
what is significant and what is not, what to pay attention to.
SUT: Just stay like that for a while, it will change. So allow
yourself to investigate that state, investigate what it brings, it Always remember that meditation is not a static activity
will not last forever. In the initial stages we all tend to do that where one state is right, 'this is the right state of awareness,
because we don’t understand that it could be less tiring. So I’ve got to keep this’. No! Once your own wisdom is stronger,
now the mind has understood that that it’s tiring and it has then your practice changes. In the beginning we need to do
stopped. It’s just new, but it will change. this because that’s how we’re taught. That’s our beginning
exercise, the effort-making that we need to do to get to the
It’s all part of the process of learning to meditate. There will
point where we understand the practice and we can just
be some states where we will find we need to be labeling to
practice.
bring our attention. After a while the minds knows how to do
it, and labeling is extra, it’s just too much work, and it’s not Initially our practice is always sati first, then vīrya and
necessary so then we drop it. We’re left with one thing and samādhi, and wisdom is trailing quite far behind. We have
then other things happen. some borrowed wisdom to apply the sati and the vīrya so we
can get samādhi, and that’s how we are working.
It’s just like any field of study, when we study we have to put
in effort. We spend our time learning mathematics, how to do As we keep plodding along, little spots of wisdom come to us
this and that, algebra, physics, trigonometry. We try to and they then become part of our arsenal, and, hopefully, the
memorize, we try to remember, we try to relate this to that, wisdom slowly catches up. And then it’s working together with
and then when we know it all we don’t need any books awareness, vīrya, samādhi, paññā, saddhā, all working
anymore. together, and hopefully one day the wisdom gets so strong
that it gets ahead. And then it’s not the awareness at work
Initially you have to put in the effort; but once you are
anymore, it’s the wisdom. So you’re aware but wisdom is the
experienced then you just look at a situation and you know
one that watches, together with the awareness. Then wisdom
why it happened. That’s your understanding. Whatever you
is the leader and awareness just does its work, it becomes the
have been expertly researching or studying, that’s what you
worker.
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Now if I want to go into retreat like all of you and start Yogi: In my sitting meditation, my mind inclines to adopt
following a schedule, it’s tedious. I can’t do that anymore; it’s either or both methods. The first is that I invoke the
too stilted, it’s artificial. Like I have to put in things that I instructions on ānāpānasati with the intention of developing
don’t need to put in. If I don’t try to practice, it’s there sati and samādhi and I go into the details of the instructions
naturally, I’m aware. And it’s always there. on ānāpānasati, in, out, short, long, all that.

I have noticed that when the practice is strong, when the And I feel that there is a great deal of necessity for personal
awareness is strong and everything is working together very effort to be put into focusing the attention on these various
strongly, the feeling that I am meditating is absolutely not aspects of the breath and I also think that it is relevant on this
there at that time. approach to recall the injunctions on the attainment of jhāna.

At the end of each jhāna instructions there is the Pāli words

which the translation I have of it is stirring up energy,
exerting the mind. So here in my first approach is an actual
positive, conscious effort to be made in developing sati and
samādhi.

The second approach is this. I start off with a little bit of

ānāpānasati and when I feel, after a short time, that it is
established, I make that as an anchor and I stick to that
anchor and I start surveying everything else that comes into
consciousness, which is sound of silence, the belly, the rising
and falling.

So both of these approaches, scenarios, involve effort. And yet

to be here from time to time, the real thing is effortless. And I
would like Sayadaw to make some observation on these two
__________________________________________
aspects, on their continuance or their discontinuation or any
modifications that would enhance.

129
SUT: In the beginning it’s fine to do the practices as you are Yogi: In sitting, because there’s momentum of mindfulness,
doing. Personal effort is always necessary in the beginning. there seems to be a lot happening, it’s almost as if one can see
Because when we don’t have a practice that has momentum lots of mind movies in a second. It seems very clear to me that
and has its own steam then we have to put in personal effort it’s anicca lakkhaṇa. As I try to investigate the mind after
to get the engine going. When you put in effort it’s not only in some time that fades, and then I have to start noticing simple
the sitting, it’s very important to carry your awareness into things again.
every moment so that awareness is continuous.
I’m wondering if Sayadaw can talk around this increasing and
When your awareness is continuous over and over, day after decreasing of mindfulness.
day, it gains momentum. When it gains momentum it can’t
stop and that’s when it feels effortless, that’s when your
personal effort doesn’t have to be so much inside, but it’s not SUT: When it goes against momentum and then it drops off,
that the faculty of viriya in the mind stops. Viriya continues why does it drop off?
but you don’t have to exert it so much because you have
already exerted it enough for there to be momentum, for it to Yogi: The energy seems to fade off.
keep carrying on by itself. That is what is meant by effortless.
SUT: Because there’s doubt. You don’t know what to do at
It’s not that right effort stops. Right effort gains momentum
that point in time. Actually at that point when you feel like
and therefore it continues to run on its own momentum. But
you’re not sure what you’re beginning to understand, it seems
nothing can happen without right effort.
that some understanding is coming but you’re not sure, don’t
It is one of the five faculties, the indriya(s). It must be there. try to do anything, just continue like that. That’s what brought
Once the five faculties gain momentum, they all work together you here.
and they continue to work together. They are always present.
The wisdom is beginning to gather. It hasn’t gathered enough
If you ever go on a retreat where you try to be continuously
to pop out, but when you wonder how to make it pop out,
mindful for one, two weeks, you'll notice after one, two weeks
that’s it.
that it’s not so much effort to try to maintain your
mindfulness it seems to come more and more naturally and Yogi: So notice the wondering.
that’s the feeling of effortlessness.
SUT: [in English] That’s right!
__________________________________________

130
Everything you’ve been doing is right, even your starting over
again simply. So you know how to do it, you just keep have to
keep doing that.

It’s as if you’re lying down and a family of chickens is coming

towards you—that’s the wisdom. And if you just lie there and
continue doing what you’ve already been doing the chickens
feel comfortable that you are not a threat and they’ll probably
walk over you. [Laughter]

But if you hear the chickens coming and think, ‘Oh! I wonder
if they’re going to come?’ They’ll all run away. [More laughter]

In the beginning it’s like that. We’re not skilful, we don’t really
understand the nature of the mind.

There is no fixed experience. You might see something

changing or flowing, you might see it coming and going
There’s continuity, there’s momentum, there’s the gathering
understanding that it’s different all the time, there are all
of enough information, data, and wisdom, and it should just
these different ways. It is not the experience that determines
go on like that. But we don’t realize and then, instead of
whether you get the insight. There’s no particular way of
letting it continue naturally, we consciously start thinking
seeing an object that will help an insight to arise. The insight
about it, and then the natural wisdom weakens.
can arise regardless of the object.
This is an example of papañca actually, it’s unnecessary. At
that point we start to think, ‘What shall I do?’ It comes in like
doubt, but we don’t really need to think that.

Anicca lakkhaṇa is an understanding of that nature. It doesn’t

have to be that we see something arising and passing away
and that experience that makes us realize anicca lakkhaṇa.

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S ECTION 41 you understand? Pleasant or painful is the interpretation of a
mind that has attachment or aversion. When the mind is
Positive Thinking neutral then the experience is just the experience.

With positive thinking, sometimes if the negativity in the

mind is not very deeply-rooted you can think of something
positively and it will wash over the negativity and you sort of
feel better. But some negativities are very deeply-rooted, you
can tell yourself it’s okay or that it will be okay, but the inner
mind will never accept it, the subconscious mind doesn’t
accept it. Then it doesn’t matter how positive you try to be, it
Yogi: Is it like positive thinking? No matter how negative the
won’t really feel positive, and then the mind starts to have
pain is you think it’s okay, do it like that?
inner conflict.

The important thing is right view, to see it as it is happening.

SUT: I am not advocating positive thinking because positive When it is like this how the mind is, when it is like that how
thinking is not real. You might be feeling pain and yet saying the mind is. To see it as it really is all the time, then you see
to yourself, “It’s okay, it’s okay,” but it’s not okay. You are what is coloured and what is not.
trying to change the state of your mind intentionally and
I used to tell people first to accept what was happening. And
that’s not really seeing things as they are.
that does sort of make the mind feel a bit better. But
What I’m saying is, if it is painful know that it is painful. sometimes deep inside the mind doesn’t really accept it so at a
Know how the mind is. When the mind is feeling tense, see if very subtle level it still feels tension towards whatever it’s
you can relax it. If you can’t relax it, you have to try and make experiencing. If you are able to see what the mind is feeling,
yourself comfortable. But if you can relax it you can see how it then you become able to see the actual resistance in the mind,
might make the pain feel better. the fact that the mind is not accepting. When you’re able to
see that, you’re not supposed to try to accept, because that’s
If you’re able to maintain a state of mind where the mind is
artificial; what you’re supposed to do is to recognize the mind
not attached and not averse, where the state of mind is stable
is not accepting this.
and neutral, then the mind cannot think something is ‘nice’ or
‘not nice’, it cannot think something is pleasant or painful. Do
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For initial instructions, some yogis are not able to see what
they are feeling, or not able to catch the subtle resistances in
the mind and all that, then I tell them just to try to accept
whatever is going on. Initially that helps, because it helps
them to watch it for a little longer and hopefully that helps
them to see the reaction in the mind. That’s the purpose of it.
But if you can see what is happening in the mind, then don’t
try to accept anything anymore. If you see that the mind is not
accepting it—.

[in English] This is real

That’s what’s real, pay attention to that, be aware of that.

133
S ECTION 42 But what stayed with her were two concepts. The concept of a
retreat: every time she went to a retreat she came with the
Preconceived Ideas anxiety that she might not be able to sleep. And she would try
to sleep, because she thinks sleep is necessary. So that’s the
second concept, sleep is necessary.

So I said, well, forget it. Tell yourself you’re not on retreat,

you’re on holiday. And if you can’t sleep at night, sleep in the
daytime. I don’t care when you sleep, so long as when you’re
awake you’re aware, I don’t care, you sleep when you need to–
don’t be a yogi! They’ve been practicing for years, they’re not
SUT: There was a yogi on this particular retreat and she told
people you have to tell to try be aware, they’re trying to use it
me that after about four or five days of being mindful in a
in life anyway, but retreats are the problem. So she slept that
retreat she can’t sleep anymore, and it happens to her every
night. I have seen many people with Dhamma Hall trauma!
retreat. She can’t sleep but the thing is that if she can’t sleep
for four or five days her anxiety levels really build, so she has It’s serious—they can’t go to the Dhamma Hall. Approaching
to takes a pill. If she doesn’t she is starting to go berserk so it or even just walking past it creates tension. Imagine how
she has to calm herself. It really bothers her. much suffering they’ve been going through in the Dhamma
Hall. How much they have been forcing themselves in the
So I asked her, when did this begin. And it started on her very
Dhamma Hall. Because they’re forcing themselves, they’re
first retreat. And it had followed her since then. What
already suffering, they’re doing something wrong, they have
happened on her very first retreat was that she was practising
some wrong concept but they don’t know it, but the place for
with an achievement attitude which is usual for yogis, so after
this to take place is in the Dhamma Hall!
a few days trying to get where you think you should be getting,
one gets frustrated, she was trying too hard. And sometimes I feel sad for yogis—they do months on retreat
like that! After a long time some of them walk around with a
Once you are trying too hard, the mind is agitated, there’s
band of tension in their heads, or tension in the top of their
more tension, and you’re putting in more adrenaline so she
head or something… And it’s like a hallucination: because of
can’t sleep anymore. She couldn’t sleep the rest of the retreat.
the anxiety they always take there, it’s not really there, it’s just
the anxiety that brings it up.

134
There are some people who after several months of practicing So this time I told him to sit like he’s selling something in the
“intensively”, come with some kind of headache in their head, market. And because it’s only about being aware, I told him
which manifests suddenly when they sit in meditation. So not to sit in that position and sit like you’re selling something
then I explain and it takes one and a half months of relaxing in the market, and then after a few minutes, maybe ten
and all that. minutes, change the position, like stretch out your feet, et
cetera. Because he is aware. It’s just that he’s got this horrible
For them in fact you can’t even use the word ‘meditate’
association with this blocked head every time he sits in that
because it’s associated with all of this. I have to tell them,
proper position.
‘You’re not meditating, you’re just knowing yourself, being
aware,’ something not meditating. It’s like a psychological lock that he gets into. So I tried to get
him to try and change the idea of meditation. Even his object–
You have to change the way you think about it, you have to
he was told even not to take those objects he tries to take. And
wait for them to relax, feel more comfortable, feel nothing
even to change his posture. Because the pattern in his mind is
threatening in this environment. Nobody’s going to scold him
so strong, the moment he does something associated with the
for not practicing in the Dhamma Hall, or things like that.
posture, everything comes in. He practiced very, very hard in
There’s a brilliant yogi, for years he’s had this, and I have been the past so the habit is also very, very strong.
trying to work with it for years with him. So every time he
comes on retreat, the moment he takes a sitting position, and
he sits very well, like this, very straight—the moment he takes
the position, closes his eyes, he gets a headache and cannot
meditate, and everything becomes so gross it’s too subtle, or
something, and nothing is observable. But he tries very hard.
And I told him not to try.

I watched him and realized that the moment he sat he was

already tense. Because he has the thought that the moment he
sits he can’t move. The thought of "Don’t move! Meditation is
“don’t move”!"

135
Yogi: Well I just wanted to say a big thank you, because it’s time we experience something, we need to ask what the mind
helped me enormously focusing on awareness rather than is thinking. A lot of it is delusion at work.
thinking ‘meditation.’

SUT: Right, right. Yes the word ‘meditation’ can give a lot of
trouble. It’s when we’ve had the word ‘meditation’ associated
with some wrong way that we took it to be.

There was a lay person, one of my friends, a Muslim, and if

you said to him “Come meditate,” he was like, “No, no!” So I
said to him, “Can you feel the touching sensation when tap
your fingers together?” And he got really interested, and I
would ask him, “Do you feel it on the index finger or the
thumb?” And he got really interested and watched it for hours
because we were sitting in the shop together, selling our own
wares. He didn’t call it meditation, but there he was paying
attention.

__________________________________________

Yogi: I make my living as a psychotherapist, and one of the

things that strikes me most is how human minds naturally
generate opinions about others. It seems almost biological.

SUT: It’s delusion: we don’t know anything about a person

and we already have an opinion! Whether it’s good or bad, it’s
delusion because we don’t know anything. We just make an
assumption or form an opinion. That’s why every time we see
something, we need to ask what the mind is thinking. Every

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S ECTION 43 __________________________________________

Quiet and Peaceful Yogi: When the mind quietens down Sayadaw said to ask
questions. Can you say something about this?

SUT: What do you want to know? If there’s nothing we want

to know, no questions will come to mind.

Yogi: Questions like, ‘what is the mind doing now?’

Yogi: We talked yesterday about what the right questions are SUT: And did you see what the mind was doing?
to ask. For me quite often, when I sit, it becomes stable and
quiet and I feel that the body relaxes. And then sometimes I Yogi: A bit.
feel something that I would describe as a pressure kind of in SUT: Whenever we ask a question we will discover a little bit
front of the body. And quite often it’s very strong so the more.
mindfulness goes naturally to that. And sometimes there’s a
bit of fear, what is this? Or excitement that there's something Yogi: But that’s it. I run out of questions, that’s why I want to
happening. What would be the right questions to ask? know the skilful questions to ask.

SUT: They must come from inside. Nothing difficult. Just

whatever you are experiencing or seeing. See what you feel
SUT: So you can ask, how is the mind responding to this curious about. What are you seeing? How are you observing?
experience? What is the mind feeling about this experience?
Whatever you’re experiencing, it’s fine, it’s just an experience.
I likes this question, ‘So what?’

Then the mind feels more settled because there’s nothing

__________________________________________
special about it. It’s just another experience. And what you
can then recognize is that there is awareness. And just keep
recognizing that awareness is still present.

137
Yogi: When I am sitting I am aware of many things and between the knowing and the object when you are doing
feelings. After that I watch the mind and the mind is very ānāpāna? What else do you know? Is it only the ānāpāna that
quiet and peaceful, there is a tendency to go to the breath. is known? What else is being known? Of what else is the mind
What do I do then? aware? Does the air go through one nostril or both nostrils?
This is just to bring interest to the moment.

There are different things that you can investigate. For

example, your breathing: why are you breathing? Why do you
have to breathe? If you know other objects, for example,
touching or sounds, how many touch points are there? Do you
know hearing and ānāpāna and the touching points all at
once? Or do you know them one by one? You can investigate
in so many ways. If it’s peaceful, why is it peaceful?

SUT: Let the attention go to the breath and then investigate

object and knowing mind. Investigate what else can you know,
what can you understand about the mind from this?

Yogi: What do you mean ‘investigate’?

SUT: What is object? What is mind? What is the object? What

is the knowing? Can you see it? Can you tell the difference

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S ECTION 44

Reading

Yogi: I’ve been trying to maintain mindfulness more while

reading. So far that generally takes the form that when I turn
the page or if there’s a break in the text or if something
distracts me, I check the mind. I’m basically looking for
checkpoints during reading, because while reading the
mindfulness is not so great.

SUT: In the beginning that’s what you do, give yourself

checkpoints and so on just to bring the mindfulness in. Then
slowly that mindfulness will come into recognizing the mind
when it’s reading and how it feels when it’s reading. The mind
does lots of things while it’s reading, such as looking at the
words, making sense of the meaning. It’s not just reading the
words, the mind is also interpreting.

139
S ECTION 45 We get into this ‘doing, doing, doing’ and not reflecting on
what we’re doing and how we’re doing it. I want you to think
Reflection/ Track Back and meditate, not just to blindly meditate. Aware, aware, not
blindly aware! Use awareness intelligently. Be aware
intelligently. It’s not just following the instructions. Expand
on them, innovate.

The only thing to watch out for is when reflection becomes

what is called discursive thinking.

__________________________________________
Yogi: Can Sayadaw talk about how he connects the idea of
meditation, and what we do in meditation, with reflection? Yogi : Do we need to recall objects, things, experiences or do
we let go of them and just be aware of the present moment? If
Interpreter: When you talked about reflection you said you the mind wants to recall and learn from good experiences,
reflect away from this? what can we do?
Yogi: I reflect on practice but I also reflect in practice, so I do
both. While you’re in the moment you reflect, and also away
from it. That’s generally considered what happens. I think SUT: It’s just enough to know the objects. The mind will
that some of what Sayadaw talks about is, for me, reflection in recognize and also remember. If the mind is awake, alert, then
action. the mind will recognize what’s happening. We don’t have to
purposely try to recall things. And as your awareness becomes
more continuous, the awareness becomes stronger, the
memory function of the mind also becomes stronger anyway.
SUT: The Buddha taught his son and said, “Before you speak,
reflect. When you’re speaking, reflect. After you’ve spoken, Yogi: If the mind wants to recall and learn from good
reflect.” experiences, what can we do?
Today I asked everyone, what are we sitting and doing? SUT: From bad experiences you can also learn.

140
S ECTION 46 Otherwise we get over-zealous. We get so eager to get to the
task, we forget about whether we’re doing it efficiently or
Right Information effectively.

Yogi: We set ourselves goals and targets…

SUT: This is the nature of defilement: it looks for the result, it

wants a result. How wisdom works is, it thinks about how it
should do the work, what are the causal factors that are need
to be fulfilled to do this work effectively? That’s what wisdom
thinks about, and tries to fulfill the causes.
Yogi: For me, the greatest freedom came from knowing that
bhāvanā meant cultivating the mind, and not bhāvanā equals Often it feels like people don’t have enough information about
samādhi. meditation and they’re sort of fighting in the dark sometimes.

And sometimes you ask the teacher, and the teacher will scold
you and so you’re afraid to ask!
SUT: That’s why it’s very important to define things right
from the beginning. What are we doing? We need to know
that. No matter what we do, if we are clear ahead of time what
the work is about and how we’re going to do it, then that work
is much more powerful. That’s why I give these reminders
during the sit, to keep reminding us because we forget. ‘This is
what we’re doing, we’re not trying to do that.’ We’re just being
aware not trying to stop the thoughts.

But the defilements will keep doing their work, they’ll make us
forget, not remember, try to achieve, et cetera. So when we
meditate, it’s a good thing to always check, because when we
check we have to use wisdom, we have to check against our
knowledge base to see whether we’re doing the right thing.

141
__________________________________________ I had heard my teacher talk about impermanence for example,
I wasn’t interested in any other teachings at that time, only
Yogi: For many years I had been very proud about not taking
what my teacher taught me.
any interest in the theory, just practice. Then I realized that
something was not right with the practice. I decided I had And so based on that, when I had some insights, after that, I
better find out a little more. So Dhamma books, Dhamma thought ‘what’s this?’ And I thought maybe I’d look it up. And
discourses, chanting, discussions with dhamma friends… I’ve when I looked it up the understanding of it was so incredible
tried to read the same book three times, always getting to page because I had had an insight into it, and then I became
38… [Laughter] My friends want to talk with me about the interested in reading more about the other stuff.
Dhamma and I start yawning.

Is there a way to deal with this dullness that comes over every
time I try to further my understanding?

SUT: Maybe because the mind had that previous idea that the
theory is unimportant, that’s still getting in the way of full
interest in the peripheral knowledge around the practice. Just
continue to make the efforts. When the mind starts to see the
value of it, it will find more interest. I wasn’t very interested in
theory either. All I knew was that if I meditated it felt good.
That’s what I liked, that’s all.

It was much later on in life that I realized that some of the

theory was actually helpful for the practice and fed into the
practice. When I saw the benefits of it, then I began to look for
more information to read, and stuff like that. But initially,
when I was practicing in my youth, I never bothered with the
theory.

142
S ECTION 47 Yogi: Pain is inevitable, suffering’s optional?

Right View SUT: That’s right. If you have the wisdom… If you don’t have
the wisdom it’s not optional.

Another Yogi: It’s just the mind that makes us suffer.

SUT: Yes, the mind can make you suffer, the mind can save
you.

Yogi: I was experiencing a lot of pain, and the mind tries to

find causes for it. And then, when I thought, okay, this is just
pain, let me be aware of it. And the pain was still there but
there was no suffering. There was still pain, but I was not
fighting it.

SUT: [in English] Why? Normally we suffer. Now the mind

not suffer. Why?

Yogi: Not resisting, not fighting?

__________________________________________
SUT: Why? Why not resisting?
Yogi: Earlier on we talked about “Be 100% responsible for
Yogi: I simply accept… your own emotions and for your reactions to other people.”
but then when this lady here says that she has jealousy,
SUT: Why you accept? It’s not because you tried to accept it. Sayadaw said, “Well, it’s not yours.”
It’s because suddenly the mind… you had that thought right?
Why not just see it as it is. So that understanding is right view.

143
SUT: It’s very simple. About jealousy it’s right. Any emotion called a fool, and all of that, that make this mind angry. That’s
that arises in the mind is not ‘my’ emotion. It is an emotion what makes the mind angry, not the person calling you a fool.
that has arisen in the mind. But about the ‘100%’ is also true.
We don’t have this sort of knowledge, we don’t have this sort
Any emotion that arises in the mind is 100% the responsibility
of understanding, so in most situations we just attribute our
of this mind. This mind has created the conditions for this
emotions to everyone else, to every other thing, and we don’t
emotion to arise with its views, its thoughts, its attitudes, and
take responsibility for our own emotions, or this mind’s
its ideas.
emotions.
So it’s all its own greed or whatever. It’s all held in this mind.
The lack in this mind is the lack of understanding of its own
In the past it has gone through something that has resulted in
processes. That is the fault that lies within the mind.
this. And that’s how that mind is responsible.

The reason we use the word ‘I’ is that we can only deal with
this mind. This mind is our responsibility, so to speak. In all In fact, although we spoke about ‘my mind’ being ‘100%
human relationships we naturally have the tendency when we responsible for my emotions’, the use of ‘I’, ‘me’, ‘my mind’
get upset to blame the other person for what we feel. At least and ‘myself’ are just references to this mind.
half!
Yogi: And these qualities are just part of nature?
We say things like, ‘he hurt me’, ‘he made me angry’, ‘she did
that’, ‘this is frustrating’, and so on. We think that it is the Interpreter: Yes, every mind has all these qualities.
outside that makes us feel this way but actually the reason
Yogi: I created the conditions for it to arise.
that we feel the things the way we feel them is because of our
judgments, ideas, preconceptions, and so on. We suffer the Interpreter: ‘I’ did not create the conditions—
emotions that we have to suffer because of lack of wisdom and
inability to think in the right way. Yogi: The conditions were created for this particular mind.

We see the gross level: we see someone come and call us a fool SUT: In Theravāda there is the one they call the stream-
and we get angry, so we think that this person made me angry. enterer, the sotāpanna, the first level of being enlightened,
But we don’t see the subtle thought processes that go on: the one who is definitely going to reach nibbāna. For the stream-
identification with the self, the pride that doesn’t want to be enterer the defilements have not all gone, they are still
present. But the stream-enterer no longer has the wrong view
144
of what defilements are. They are just qualities of the mind.
They are no longer personal.

And because of that understanding, the power of the

defilements is much reduced. The defilements can never grow
to a degree that would cause a stream-enterer to do something
that would cause a person to go to the four woeful states. To
become an animal, a hell-being, et cetera. So, you can see
from this example of the stream-enterer that the first level is
to have right view.

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S ECTION 48

Samatha & Vipassanā If observing an object causes agitation in the mind, don’t look
at that object directly anymore. You have to observe the
agitation. We have to adjust the mood of the mind.

There are two ways you can adjust the mood of the mind. You
can adjust it with right thinking, right thought, right view. If
that’s not possible, then with samatha.

__________________________________________
Yogi: I still couldn’t find why I feel hot and sweating. Just Yogi: So… the mind becomes one-pointed. You don’t start
after I feel hot and sweating I feel very uncomfortable, and going for other objects, the mind closed for that one point. But
then my mind is not that stable, so I’m not able to get answer you don’t choose one-pointedness, the mind goes for it. The
for that. question is, you don’t ’take‘ the object.

Interpreter: I think it’s also partly Burmese translation. In

Burmese, when you say ‘the mind just naturally paid attention
SUT: Do samatha first. When you have some stability of mind to it’, the literal translation is ‘the mind took it as an object’.
from the samatha, do vipassanā. If the mind is not in the right
mood you won’t be able to use some borrowed wisdom to
right the attitude. In that case just use samatha meditation to
SUT: If the mind is naturally going towards one-pointedness
still the mind. If you’re able to think about it and correct your
let it do that. But if you want to practise vipassanā then while
attitude then you can just go straight into it. But if you are
the mind is one-pointed you can also realize that
thinking about it and are not able to correct the attitude then
simultaneously the mind has not actually blocked out other
go back and do some samatha.
things. Because the mind is all-knowing in fact even when it is
Some people are able to think about it in the right way and one-pointed— there are things that the mind already knows
instantly they feel better, they’re able to observe and that are in its consciousness.
investigate. But some people cannot, then you have to use a
For example some people when they are watching ānāpāna
neutral object.
and a thought arises, and they look at the thought and the
146
thought disappears. But this is not what I want people to do. are already conscious. But that’s for whenever you want to
For example, the mind is naturally on the breath and a take up the practice. Don’t get confused.
thought arises, they notice the thought naturally and then
they just go on to the next moment. They don’t try to change
the attention of the thought. They know the breath, they know
the thought and the next moment comes, maybe it's the
breath, or the thought.

Yogi: But it keeps disturbing the one-pointedness if you look

for the object.

Interpreter: It depends on your goal. If you want one-

pointedness…

SUT: So you must get this clear: what you learn for jhāna
practice is different from what you will learn in this retreat.
Because the goals are different. If you want to develop one-
pointedness then you have to allow your mind to naturally do
that and not checking to see what else the mind knows etc.

If you want to do this practice whether now or later—when

you’ve developed one-pointedness you can still switch to this
sort of practice—at that time these are the things you will
want to remember. That besides the things that the mind
knows one-pointedly there are other things that the mind is
also conscious of at the same time.

If you can be aware of the mind that is one-pointed, because

the mind itself is one-pointed, you can know that mind, and
from there you can then expand into all the other minds that

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S ECTION 49 cause and effect and so on, we’re looking at understanding
relationships. That’s dhammānupassanā as well.
Satipaṭṭhāna

Yogi: There are both—no kind of distinction—

dhammānupassanā, cittānupassanā, just whatever fits
the situation that comes up?

SUT: In fact we must be skilful at understanding all four of

the foundations. It’s when we understand the first three that it
is dhammānupassanā.

Yogi: What about if the mind inclines towards a certain object,

towards a certain practice? Some people like to look at their
mind, some people at the body.

SUT: From the standpoint of the mind you will eventually

recognize everything. Because the mind knows body, the mind
knows vedanā, and the mind knows mind.

Initially of course there is always the learning about each bit.

We might find ourselves focused more on the body, more on
the feelings, more on the mind. And once we understand
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S ECTION 50 Yogi: And which mind is better for staying in awareness?

Seeing & Looking SUT: No object makes awareness better. Because the
awareness has nothing to do with the object. Awareness is
something you develop from practicing awareness, so whether
you are aware of looking or seeing, you’re aware. That’s all.

__________________________________________
Yogi: When seeing we have our eyes open unlike thinking,
how to be aware of seeing consciousness? Is it the same thing,
like pulling back, you see sort of the wide picture, not really
Yogi: While I’m walking out somewhere and I might be out of focus but without focusing, and I’m wondering what
looking at a tree, or seeing a tree, can you tell me the that teaches me? How that helps me understand the world
difference? Is seeing something where you might get more with seeing?
attached to it? What is the difference between seeing and
looking or are they the same?

SUT: These are just like exercises that also help us to

recognize something as an object, and there is the knowing.
SUT: Looking is when you intend to look at something, so To realize which is mind, whether anything is personal, there
when you have an intention to actually pick up something to is the seeing and there is the knowing.
look at it properly, that’s looking. But in general you might not
be trying to look at anything. Like when you’re walking, you’re And also because you are being aware, noticing this, of course
not necessarily looking at anything. You kind of know where your sati, samādhi, everything is developing. The fact that you
you’re going, then seeing is happening. You have a much are even being able to step back and recognize there is seeing,
broader general view which is a bit blurred because you’re not there is some wisdom there already, the fact that you are able
actually focusing on anything. to do it and you are not just involved in and can't separate
sight from what is being seen. So that is right view already. So
Now you look at her, but you can see other things also. there is that sort of wisdom and we can recognize that as well
in a different way from when we couldn’t. This mind, this
knowing and this object are happening but I’m not doing it.
149
[in English] I’m not seeing.

I’m not seeing but this phenomenon is happening. That's

anatta.

SUT: What do you think? What do you talk? For me, I’m not
trying to think.

Yogi: That was a reminder!

150
S ECTION 51 green. A man came up the mountain to the kuti, and he was
like, “It’s so beautiful Sayadaw! It’s so beautiful!”
Sensual Pleasure I came out of his kuti and I couldn’t understand what the man
was talking about. I just couldn’t. I was looking to see what
was beautiful, I couldn’t get himself over to that. Because the
mind was just being aware, it wasn’t giving meaning and
doing all those things it normally does. I could see it all, but
that was it. It was just seeing. I was a bit bewildered for a
while.
Yogi: When I was at one of the retreats, I was standing and Yogi: So is that how we should react then?
enjoying the sunset and I was told not to because it was
‘sensual pleasure’. But in my opinion it gives me peace, or Interpreter: No! There is no ‘should’. As it is.
something like that.
SUT [in English]: Depends on your understanding level.

Interpreter: Whatever happens naturally. That’s what

SUT: Yes the Buddha Dhamma says that all this is sensual happened for him then, but tomorrow if he looked at the sun
pleasure. But we can’t stop it. We can’t stop the mind from he might say, “Beautiful!”
enjoying something. And what I teach is not to stop the mind
from doing anything, but to recognize whatever the mind is
doing. This practice is to recognize what is happening and
observe it in order to understand it. Thus we would learn in
this situation what the enjoying mind is like.

Once I was in Malaysia for a self retreat. I had gained quite a

lot of momentum and for days I have been very much into the
awareness of object and knowing mind. Then one night it
rained and the whole forest surrounding that place was so

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S ECTION 52

Sickness SUT: When the mind is not very strong in its awareness and
all that, the body attacks the mind. So if the body is weak the
awareness also weakens. When we’re well the mind is like,
‘Oh! I want to do this… I must do that…’ but when the mind is
sick, it’s like ‘Don’t want to do anything… not interested in
anything,’ so the mind calms down!

Yogi: I’ve been sick for the last few days and I’ve been using
this time to meditate. But it’s really hard when you can see the
mind like a ball of wool… fuzzy… but if I am to sustain it…
with the dribbling nose, the body aches and…

SUT: When we react, when we don’t like what we’re

experiencing then the awareness cannot be continuous. It
cannot be sustained. For me, I have been practising so long,
and the practice is quite stable, when I gets sick the samādhi
is better! The mind is not so busy any more.

The mind is more passive, not so interested in other things

any more. Much stiller. Nothing’s important anymore so the Another Yogi: So is it because she has aversion?
mind is more inside itself. The experience is very obvious so
SUT: The fact that she can’t sit still shows that the mind is
the mind is aware more easily, you don’t even have to try, you
restless.
just know everything.
Yogi: And also because I’m on retreat, I want to get better.
Yogi: I can see that fuzzy mind but I can’t sit still. So sleepy…
In and out of sleep.
152
SUT: Oh!

Yogi: But it’s interesting, I’ve been doing the cooking, and I
was doing it mindfully and suddenly this mind got cleared!

SUT: Because you stopped thinking of your sickness. You

forget about sickness.

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S ECTION 53

Skilful Awareness, Attitude SUT: [in English] That's better. Because many people can't
practice. They're not peaceful. Much suffering. That's why I
am reminding.

The main thing I am trying to convey is that the mind that is

practicing, the awareness, must be skilful awareness. Before
just becoming mindful you have to check.

__________________________________________
Yogi: In the guided meditation, Sayadaw mentioned
Yogi: I would like to ask Sayadaw to explain a little bit more
‘wholesome awareness’?
about the attitude towards meditation because it seems to be
Interpreter: Oh, ‘wholesome awareness’. I translated it that much more crucial than the technique itself.
way. He means that the awareness must be without
defilements. Not greedy, like when you are trying to make
something happen. Not having aversion in your awareness, SUT: The attitude, whether you want to call it the attitude
trying to stop something happening. Some people can be towards practice or the attitude in the practice, or the attitude
aware of aversion with aversion, and then aware of that within the practice, needs to be, again, without desiring
aversion with aversion... something, without desiring a result, without aversion
towards the process that has to be passed through, without
delusion about the necessary process that has to be gone
SUT: Some people do that. They are meditating, they're being through. That’s the bit about attitude in the meditation.
aware, and there’s some subtle defilement that is constantly
Everything that I explain is a little bit of information that is
motivating them. For example, if you go on retreat, you're
supposed to help you to have the right attitude when you are
hoping to get something in the retreat. It’s very subtle. Be
meditating, within the practice, whether it is reminding you
aware if you’re meditating with greed and aversion.
not to have greed, aversion, and so on, or just explaining how
Interpreter: ‘skilful awareness’, that’s a better term. the practice doesn’t have to be a certain way. All the specific
details I go into can at any time remind you of these things.
154
Remembering that what is happening is natural, that there’s we mustn’t use the awareness to try and change the
no need to change the experience, there’s no need to control experience.
the experience, that it’s happening as it is, that this is just
Actually my teacher’s instruction is complete, it’s a three-
cause and effect. There is no doer and stuff like that. All that is
liner: don’t try to do anything, don’t try to prevent anything,
supposed to help.
but don’t forget what is happening.

When instructions are read we must also make sure we

understand them in the right way.

Thinking is not a problem. Very often we think of thinking as

papañca, ‘this is a defilement, we should not be doing this
while meditating’, but then it becomes worse. So all that
information feeds into the wisdom we can bring to the
practice so that the right attitude can be held in the practice.

My teacher always said, “Don’t try to do anything and don’t

try to prevent anything.” When I say, “Don’t do anything to it,
don’t try to prevent it.” I am talking about the object, the
experience. We have to work to be aware, to remain aware but

155
S ECTION 54 except for my sister. They would chatter about the latest cars,
movie stars, and things like that. I would sit and listen and
Society, Family watch what was going on, because I was just being mindful,
and I realized it was really quite a waste of time.

Then I thought about what could be done and slowly an idea

formed in my head. One day I said, “Why don't we all
meditate together?” All of us had meditated before because
my father used to bring us all to monastery. So they said, “Yes,
let's meditate.”
Yogi: I think that would be a great power for good, if people We all sat for fifteen minutes initially. Then we would eat.
who were looking at themselves then looked at society, and at After a while the idea crystallized, we were sitting more
the root causes in society. Is that a Buddhist perspective or regularly, every time we met. After eating or during the meal I
not? would suggest a discussion. And we would talk about life,
whether we were happy or unhappy, what made uw happy.

I would ask mostly them one by one, saying, “How do you feel
SUT: Yes. It's all about wisdom. Whether as an individual or
about your life? Do you feel satisfied with your life?” One
as a group, at whatever level of society, from the individual
brother replied, “Fifty-fifty.” Another, “Seventy-thirty.” And
level up to the policymaker's level, when there is wisdom the
one said, “I am not satisfied with my life at all.” But they had
mind understands what is right and what is wrong. Then the
never thought about it. They were just sort of going through
mind will do what is beneficial, skillful, and good, and that
life, time was passing by, and they'd never given any thought
will benefit everybody, depending on the level of influence
to how they were living their own lives.
that it has.
From one week to the next the questions would continue: if
At each of our own levels once we have wisdom we can make a
you're not happy with your life, how do you make yourself
difference. When I was practicing at home, every Sunday my
happy? How do we deal with it? And bringing the Dhamma
big family of ten brothers and sisters would gather at my
into it, it became a regular Dhamma discussion.
mother’s house and we would eat and then we would talk. We
would come to visit our parents because we were all married

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At that time I was very powerful in my family. [Laughter] becomes strong. Sometimes the mind repeats it two or three
Everybody knew I had been practicing continuously. times and it becomes stronger. If you want to remember
Whenever I said something, it made a difference to them. something, just repeat it many times.
They didn't dispute it because obviously I had been watching
__________________________________________
it a lot longer than they had. There was some authority.

When my brother who lives in America visits Burma he sweats

because it's hot in Burma. Whenever he sweats he takes off his Yogi: Sometimes when we hear the news and we see fighting
watch and puts it down somewhere. He was not very mindful, and people throwing stones at each other and killing each
so he puts it down here or there. I didn’t really look but I was other, you sort of wish somehow that they too would have the
mindful, so as I pass by I notices the watch here or there. It's good fortune to receive the Dhamma.
not that I try to remember but I notice where it is. I’ll see my
brother bobbing around and I’ll ask, “What's wrong?”

“I can't find my watch.” SUT: Yes. To each his own. We all come with our kamma. The
natural law is that the mind gets what it gets, what it deserves.
“It's in the kitchen.” So you have to work to make the mind deserve better. So sīla,
right practice. And there’s momentum when you do more and
That’s the first day. On the second day, “Oh, it's in the
more wholesome things. Then the desire to continue to do
bedroom on the left side.” And then on the third day, my
more and more wholesome deeds grows and feeds itself, and
brother asked, “How do you know?”
more and more wholesomeness then arises in the mind.
Because they knew I had been practicing so much, my brother
When I began practicing at home myself I didn’t believe the
thought that I had some psychic power. Actually I had just
practice could take me this far. I just kept doing it. And then
noticed where the watch was. Just awareness and memory
at some point there was a spark, an epiphany, and I kept
working. Every time I saw the watch the mind would just say,
going and it brought me on. So the practice will bring it to all
‘Oh, this is my brother’s watch.’ And I would know that the
of us. We just have to keep going. We all have the potential.
mind had said that.
And that’s why we’re all practicing so hard.
When we recognize the mind that comments on our
__________________________________________
experiences, then the memory the remembering of it,

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Yogi: I’m a schoolteacher, often you have a child, a student, doing something terrible you understand that’s what’s
and you have an aversion towards his personality. So is that happening to them, you don’t feel affected.
the same challenge? Is it mindful to recognize the aversion
Parents need to be with their children, maybe very badly
and maybe avoid the student? [Laughter]
behaved children, and be able not to be affected by the child,

SUT: Change your mind, change your idea. You are not this
child. The child is the child. How can you be the same? How
can the child be the way you want? Let the child be how he or
she is. So this is going to be their personality, this is going to
be a part of what they’re like. See it as it is.

Yogi: I teach juvenile prisoners… In order to develop

mindfulness, do I therefore try to create a situation where I
can actually feel warmth for them?

SUT: When you can understand it, when there is enough

wisdom pertaining to this situation, the child’s defilements,
and so on, if you have the wisdom to feel wholesome towards
not take it personally. Understand that this is where the child
this person, you will—depending on the situation—feel either
is right now and not be swayed either way.
mettā, compassion, muditā or upekkhā towards the person.
But it really depends on you, it just requires for the aversion
not to be there. Once the aversion is not there other things are
Yogi: Would it be helpful in that situation to focus on the
possible. Take responsibility for your own anger.
child’s defilements? I was wondering if it would be helpful,
Yogi: Are you saying to be neutral to the person? instead of seeing that child as angry, or destructive, or
whatever, to look at it more that this poor person is
SUT: If we are able, if we have the ability, of course it’s much
generating anger or aversion, and that’s causing this
more peaceful for us. But only if we have the ability. It doesn’t
situation? If you are able to, sometimes you can’t.
mean you don’t care about them. It means when they are

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SUT: We must understand the nature of delusion. they’re at. So what you can help them to do is to understand a
bit more.
All my life I could not love my father a lot. When I was young,
I was uncontrollable, very naughty, and I was beaten a lot. Of The idea of a relationship is very important because that
the ten children my father had, I was the most rebellious. My allows you to see. I was so naughty at home, my father would
father would lock me in the toilet in the dark and I wouldn’t go and complain about me in the monastery. But my teacher
be afraid, so it didn’t matter. He would beat me, and I would was very good with me so… I was good at meditating and all…
be in pain at that time, but then I would go do whatever I The teacher would always say to my father, “There is good in
wanted and get beaten again. I got beaten a lot. the child.” [Laughter]

I loved my father, I do naturally, but I couldn’t love him a lot. But at my teacher’s monastery I was very good, because my
It didn’t come. Much later, when I was practicing at home and teacher never told me what was negative, he only pointed out
the practice had become quite developed—before I became a the positive to me. So I would tell everything to my teacher,
monk—I began to understand the nature of moha, delusion, what I had done wrong, because I had no fear that my teacher
then I began to understand what had led to that. would reprimand me or say, ‘This is not right.’ My teacher
would only listen and then point out the good.
My father did the best thing he knew, he didn’t know how to
deal with this child and that had led to this situation. Then I __________________________________________
felt more warmth towards my father.
Yogi: Usually when I’m interacting with people I can see or
Yogi: I’ve worked with difficult children too, and I found that feel subtle emotions coming up, and so I have time to look at
first of all you have to establish a relationship… I’ve never them. But with my 15 year old son—we have a good
found a child yet who didn’t have some good side to them, not relationship, but… It’s like fire and anger, and by the time you
just defilements. And then you just work with that, and try to stop, it’s burning.
nurture that. That would be my view.
And he’s the most important one. I can practice right speech
SUT: All these children, they also function from the place of with complete strangers but when it comes to the one who
whatever they understand, and they might have wrong really matters… And it’s the same with parents, it’s just… it’s a
understanding. What they can’t understand, they can’t disaster!
produce. They can’t function out of that space, so that’s where

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SUT: Whenever you see your son or think of your son, but very difficult subject and I don’t want to go to school because I
particularly when you see your son—do this every time— can’t understand.”
notice what you’re feeling when you see him. And then when
Instead of trying to find a way to help him to understand the
you notice your feelings you will slowly begin to see what
topic, instead of finding someone to help him understand, the
expectations you have of him, what desires you have for him,
adults scold him. What’s the point of doing that?
and what your attitudes are towards him. You will notice all
these things, all your inner stuff relating to him, and then you Working under a wise boss is always much easier. You have
will be able to change the ideas that are there. more freedom when he’s there. All the subordinates suffer
under an unwise boss.
If you didn’t think of him as your son but as a human being
your attitude might be different. Don’t think ‘I made this Yogi: So we have to be like a wise boss when dealing with
human being’, don’t think that he came because you called people?
him! He came because of his kamma.
SUT: Yes, we should try to do that. If somebody scolds us and
When my son was born I was practicing very hard in lay life, I then we scold the next person it’s like a chain reaction.
had been practicing intensively for almost three years by the
time my son was born. When they brought the baby to me I My brother is a pharmacist in America, and he was telling me
looked at it, I didn’t really think, ‘this is my son’. I thought, about the training they get to serve customers. They’re told,
‘Wow, a human has come into being’. “Remember they’re sick, they have to part with their money,
they have to buy the medication, they’re feeling awful, they’re
__________________________________________ not going to say anything.” So they’re much more accepting
when customers come. It’s about attitude. When you’ve
Interpreter: I asked him, “How is your son?” and he said,
prepared yourself to accept, it’s much easier.
“He’s fine.” Everybody in his family comes to complain about
his son and says he’s very naughty, but Sayadaw doesn’t think Yogi: Yes, everything after that is a bonus isn’t it? When you
he’s naughty so he can empathize with his son. start from the worst possible scenario.
SUT: My son played truant, he didn’t go to school and I SUT: That’s why we have to expect the worst and do our best.
understood completely. He can’t cope with the studies so he
didn’t go to school. I asked him, “Why didn’t you go to school? We always do our best with strangers because we have very
Aren’t you getting help with this subject?” And he said, “It’s a few expectations of them. And it’s partly because we already

160
believe that we can’t make them do what we want. With our Yogi: Could it be that we take our family for granted? That we
family, however, we want them to do what we want. don’t appreciate the love they give us all the time?
Expectation and attachment.
SUT: Yes, that’s right, we take our family for granted. For
The people who hurt us most—of course really, at the primary example, very often mothers will do something carefully, with
level, we hurt ourselves—but the people that we feel hurt us much love, for their children, and the children…
the most are always the people closest to us. The closer they
When I began to practice at home, I started to realize the little
are the more they are able to hurt us.
things that parents do for us, and to feel gratitude for these
It is very seldom that a stranger really hurts us and yet we are things. How parents always keep their children in mind. And I
more careful and more aware with strangers, with the people really began to love them very much and appreciate all the
we meet once in a while, than with our family, whom we see little things that parents do because they feel for their
all the time. children. Then my parents would also feel it, they would
notice. They also appreciate the love they get in return and
then they do more! They would sneak me little things to eat…

We often don’t know how to make people love us. When we do

everything with awareness we start to notice and learn these
things. Everything comes together. You can’t miss anything if
you’re doing everything with awareness.

Yogi: One thing I’ve realized by myself is that, especially with

the people very close to us, we tend to have expectations. And
then I started to reflect and see what my patterns were doing,
and how difficult it is to actually change patterns. And what
arose was compassion, and that changed the whole thing
around.
We don’t pay attention, we don’t think it’s important for us to
SUT: That’s really true. We’re usually so self-absorbed. We
be mindful with our family. Actually, it’s the most important
usually have no time to consider what it must be like for the
at home.
other person. We are so self-absorbed by what we want from
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the other person that, as you said, we don’t notice our own
feelings as well.

When your mind is calmer there’s more space to see other

points of view. Initially we’re so caught up in our own
reactions again and again and again, that it just agitates the
mind. We believe them and get caught up in them. But once
there is an ability to step away and ask how to do things
differently, then there’s more calmness, and you can see it
more clearly.

The nature of wisdom is always to be able to see both sides of

the coin, never just one side. Always to realize there’s another
face: not just their view and my view, also past, present and
future.

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S ECTION 55 things you must discover on your own. If I tell you something
then you only see that thing and it won't be the pleasant
Specific Characteristics surprise of discovery that you get from your own experience.

There are signs peculiar to each emotion. Anger wants to

destroy, it wants to put away, it doesn't want to see something
anymore. That's why people kill other people. That's very
gross anger.

Yesterday night I was talking about compassion and anger,

dosa. And a lot of people don't seem to realize that dosa is not
Yogi: If you have worked hard for something and you succeed, just anger. In English the word ‘anger’ is something quite
you feel high. What is it? Is that craving? What's present gross, but dosa is everything up to a very subtle degree. If
there? you're sad, that's dosa. If you're disappointed, that too is dosa.

[in English] Depression is also dosa.

SUT: Just start with what you can. It's not so much for me to When there is not wanting something, there’s dosa.
tell you what characteristics to expect because then you'll look
for those and you won't notice something that you might find __________________________________________
out for yourself.
SUT: I will talk about one of the natures of the object. For
For example, we know greed. We know when we are feeling example, when there is thought, then we recognize there’s
greedy. But at first all we can recognize is that there is greed. thinking. In the beginning when we see thoughts, what we
We don't really know any of its specific characteristics and all instantly see is the story, the thought is the story, the thought
that. Then if we keep watching we might notice when we eat is the characters, the involvement of ourselves, and so on.
something, for example, we feel it's not enough. We want
As we continue to allow ourselves to observe and recognize
more. That's a characteristic of greed.
‘there is thinking, this is thinking’, it can get to the point
Greed never feels that anything is enough. It always thinks where you realize this is an object because it is being
there should be more. So we keep putting things on our plate observed. It suffers being observed, and therefore it’s an
and after a while we look and it’s too much. But these are object. And understanding that is understanding the nature of
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what an object is, it just has to suffer being observed. So As we observe everything, what we ultimately want to find out
there’s always these two natures, that of being known, having is what we can glean from this observation. What does the
to be known, and that of knowing. mind eventually understand about the fundamental nature or
characteristic of each experience? For example, we watch
With regard to thought, when we see this nature of thought,
ānāpāna, we watch ānāpāna for ages, what do we understand
we can see that we have understood one fundamental nature
about it? What is it like? Do we understand its peculiarities,
of thought, that it is an object. The object nature of thought.
its behaviour, the way it changes? Do we understand our
And that’s not the only nature that belongs to thought:
ānāpāna?
thought is also anatta, thought is also anicca. All this is there.
You could have understood that aspect of its nature, that it is
an object, and then you might understand that it comes and it
goes. We begin to understand different aspects of it.

You know about the three characteristics, anicca, dukkha, and

anatta. These are called sāmañña-lakkhaṇa, the ordinary
signs or characteristics. In addition there is the sabhāva-
lakkhaṇa, the natural or fundamental characteristic of
something, the characteristic unique to that object. For
example, greed has the ordinary characteristics that belong to
all objects, to all objects and all minds, that is to say,
everything: anicca, dukkha, and anatta. But there is also the
fundamental characteristic of each object. The specific
characteristics of greed has attachment, that sort of thing–

[in English] Sticky.

That’s why the guiding motivation behind our observation is
It’s sticky. And then anger wants to destroy, push away. These so important. If all we want is to develop peace we will never
are the fundamental characteristics, the ones specific to that understand things, because that was not what we set up the
object. mind to do. When we are curious and we actually want to
understand the mind then we look at it quite differently from
when we are using it as a tool to be peaceful. When we use it
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as a tool to be peaceful that’s what we do, we just use it, we’re steadiness that you need, the steadiness of the watching mind.
not curious about it. It’s the difference between being with a The rest of the minds can do what they want.
person as if they were servant or if you want to know them
Fundamentally for the knowing, watching mind, for the
better.
awareness to be stable, right view is needed. Right view
That’s why the initial goal of samatha is just that, to develop stabilizes the mind.
peace. Whereas for vipassanā, right from the start, you are not
What samādhi does is calm down the all of the rest of the
there to find peace. You are curious.
minds. Samādhi calms down everything else that the mind is
Many of us meditators spend years watching our ānāpāna, our experiencing, all the happening minds. But to calm the
rising falling, even in vipassanā watching rising falling, and watching mind only right view is necessary.
we don’t understand anything because we never begin with a
[n English] [As long as you’re] able to watch it’s okay.
curious outlook. We begin by thinking ‘we will calm down, we
must calm down, if we don’t calm down it’s a problem!’ We It’s enough just to be able to observe the storm.
think that meditation will only happen once we are calm.

Yogi: We think we are only allowed to start vipassanā once we

are calm!

SUT: Even when it’s not calm vipassanā can be done.

If the knowledge is not mature, yes, peace is a support to

vipassanā practice. But I want to emphasize that regardless of
whether or not there is peace, vipassanā can happen,
vipassanā practice can be done.

In vipassanā, you must remember that there are always the

knowing and the known minds. So the known minds, the rest
of the mind, don’t have to be calm, they don’t have to be
peaceful, they could be angry, raging, all that can be going on.
All that needs to be steady is the knowing. That’s the only

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S ECTION 56 _____________________________________________

Spiritual Urgency SUT: Saṃvega (urgency) is also a kind of wisdom. Some of the
understandings of the fundamental nature or the general
characteristics of experience can lead to urgency, to a sense
that you must finish this far.

For example, if we understand that we can’t escape experience

itself, we can’t escape having to experience, and the very
oppressiveness that we are constantly needled by, this having
to experience, having to experience and experience and
Yogi: The other day Sayadaw was saying something about experience, if we felt that was dukkha, how fast would we run
suffering. And somebody else mentioned that if there wasn't towards the path?
so much suffering what would be the interest for practice?
And then we talked about urgency. I was just wondering what
kind of urgency—

Interpreter: Spiritual urgency.

SUT: If we don't have suffering in our life, it's still possible for
the sense of spiritual urgency to arise out of the knowledge
and wisdom that come from the practice itself. We might be
practicing for other mundane reasons, because we like the
practice or stuff like that, and because we are sincerely
practicing insights come to us. And those insights then give us
a kick-start. Something hits us one day, and we just feel it's
really important.

Any insight into the nature of impermanence, dukkha or

anatta can give rise to a strong sense of urgency as well.
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S ECTION 57 When I tell people to step back, some yogis say sometimes
they can step back, sometimes they can’t. Sometimes you try
Step Back and you are just not able to step away.

Some Mahayana practitioners told me that they were taught

to tell themselves to let go. All these techniques are based on
wisdom. It’s actually bringing in right view in a sense. They
also experience this, sometimes they can just do it and
sometimes they can’t. It is very simple, it is how much wisdom
is in the mind at that time. When the mind can move into that
mode of wisdom it occurs naturally and sometimes there are
Yogi: I have been on a long retreat and I had very strong
so many defilements in the mind, that it is not able to find
agitation. So I asked the teacher what I could do about it and
that wisdom. Sometimes, it's just a little bit of defilement but
he just said, ‘Step back in your head. So expand your
you can’t find the wisdom.
consciousness in your head.’ And it was just like a miracle, I
didn’t have it anymore. I was able to do that, once I’d got too
tight it just get expansive. I wondered whether Sayadaw could
comment on that.

SUT: In fact, when we are agitated we are too involved with

trying to watch the agitation, probably we are too involved in
it, the object. And stepping back actually brings us back to the
expansive mind. It also allows you to know that this is an
object rather than being the object, being agitation or
watching agitation. So, subconsciously once you step back the
understanding that what you were involved in before is
actually just an experience is already there.

167
It’s only when we can understand what that sort of stance is, But when a yogi watches the watching more, watches the
when there is an understanding of it in the mind already, that mind more, the way it observes and so on, the yogi learns how
we can actually practice it, whether it’s letting go or stepping the mind works and learns to become skillful at using the
back. Without the understanding, which is the wisdom, we mind and recognizing the mind and its patterns. So you
can’t do it. You'll notice that the stance of wisdom is always a become more skillful at knowing how to practice.
distant stand, it’s either watching from the side or watching
__________________________________________
from the back or overview. It’s always a broader perspective,
it’s never involved. Wisdom doesn’t step into it, it is always Yogi: 58:10 How do we get involved in the world in things that
stepped away. really matter, if the practice tells us to step back from the
object?
But all defilements are very sticky. They stick to the object.
They grasp it, they want to feel it, be into it. Wisdom always
steps away. When you practise vipassanā sometimes it feels
like you keep walking away from something so we are walking SUT: Maybe you misunderstand what it means by stepping
backwards, stepping away from the experience. So that back. Even if you wanted to do something that is worth doing
everything is just happening when you are stepping away. in the world, you would want to step back away from it so that
There are people that are trying so hard to get into what they you could survey and regard what you need to do.
are watching so they are immediately forward in there…
Like when you do work, 'what’s urgent?', 'immediate?', 'for
There is this big Buddha on the mountain side in Hong Kong later?', you need to step back so you can use your wisdom to
and the Buddha sits in a posture with one of his hands is up, decide what to do, what’s important, what should be done,
it’s a mudra, but it’s just up as if saying stop. I looked at the what shouldn't be done and so on. You do the work but you
Buddha and to me the Buddha was saying, 'don’t get involved don’t throw yourself into it and just carry on without knowing
in the object'. The Buddha said in the whole of saṃsāra we whether you are doing the right thing or not.
have been following the objects. Stop now!
It’s the same principle at work. So you are not running away
When a yogi is too involved in the object, in the thing that is from the world, you are stepping back to give yourself the
being observed, a lot of expectation and aversion comes up. opportunity to do it right. So you are not attached to it. You
You want it to be this way, you don’t want it to be this way… A don’t take that action because of your attachment to it, you
lot of this comes up when you are involved with the object. don’t take that action because you are angry, you don’t take

168
that action out of a deluded state of mind. You do it because
it’s the right thing to do, the wise thing to do.

__________________________________________

Yogi: Isn't there a kind of risk that we will lose the human
spontaneity when we are watching the experience, be aware,
all the time stepping back?

SUT: When you become skillful, you become more

spontaneous. When you love you will know how to really love,
without attachment, purely. Maybe we misunderstand
‘stepping back’. It doesn’t mean distancing from, it means not
being so attached, attached with defilement, and at the same
time a wise involvement.

When there is wisdom all wholesome states are more able to

arise and with great energy. So all wholesome states will be
more present. So if you love you will really love, not a grasping
love or a controlling love but a real giving love.

The English word ‘detachment’ conjures up feelings of not

loving, but when there is wisdom in the mind it’s not like that.
When the mind is truly understanding it is not detachment in
that sense, just not a grasping.

169
S ECTION 58 say. Is it the right time, right person to speak to? Should we
say this? Is it necessary? Wisdom should lead the parade.
Talking That’s what the Buddha said. The Buddha didn't say, ‘Don’t
speak.’ The Buddha said when you speak, speak with
awareness and wisdom. Otherwise people think of noble
silence as keeping silent, 'I must not speak.’

SUT: When we all begin our meditation trainings, we have so

many instructions, 'don’t move', 'don’t do this', 'don’t think',
….we get a lot of this.

As in the guided meditation yesterday, I reminded you not to

try to stop ourselves from thinking or don’t trying to sit still.
We are just trying to be aware, everything else is free form.

Not even trying not to talk. Instead of making the effort with
what we have to do inside, instead of positive effort to actively
try to be aware, we are making negative efforts, to stop things
outside so that we can do this. So we are working funnily in a __________________________________________
negative way. Trying to stop things so that this will happen,
instead of not trying to stop anything and just trying to be There was a bhikkhu who came to the Centre and he wanted
aware. to practice talking meditation, this bhikkhu wanted to learn to
speak mindfully and was trying very hard to practice speaking
It shouldn’t be noble silence, it should be noble talking. Noble mindfully at the Centre. Then he went to do sitting meditation
means it’s wise, so then you have to think before you speak, so and someone came to speak to him and he got pissed off.
you have to be aware of what you are thinking, what you want
to say, you have think about whether it is something wise to

170
I said to him, “What is meditation? What are you doing?” This Yogi: I’m already aware that so many patterns of talking are
bhikkhu realized that he had this concept that if he was sitting aversion, complaining about the weather, politicians. It’s all
for meditation nobody must talk to him. But meditation is in aversion.
fact about being aware of whatever happens.
SUT: Complaining is a very dangerous practice because it
Yogi: Could you speak more about how to know if you are reinforces itself. It becomes a habit and then it gets stronger.
speaking properly? What are the characteristics? Are you We think that we feel better after venting, but the need to do it
happy or joyful? If you don’t get sucked into the story what again and again is dangerous.
are you aware of?
Yogi: Are we limited to constructive discussions when
SUT: Everything! Good feeling, good tone, what you are practicing noble talking?
thinking, what you are feeling, the tone of your voice, your
thoughts, your action, your face, everything. First you must be
mindful before staring to speak and then be mindful as you SUT: Just be mindful, because you can’t control speech. In life
start speaking, and with practice you will be aware of we will not always be able to choose our conversations but in
everything. The more skillful you become at being mindful retreat we have the choice. In daily life when we have to speak
when you speak, the more skillful your speech will become, we need to remember how to be aware so that we learn to
and the more meaningful your speech will be. become wiser and wiser in our speech. This is a time to
practice. It might sometimes go horribly wrong. If it does go
Yogi: Would a good way of knowing that you’re speaking
horribly wrong then learn from it. That’s all we can do, learn
skillfully be if you are really listening to the other person,
from things.
giving your all to the other person?
Yogi: Sometimes when we speak and listen to a person we’re
SUT: Yes, definitely. For example, if there is greed to talk, if
so intent and we forget to be mindful because we are so
someone is too eager to put across their point of view, they
focused on the conversation.
stop being able to listen properly. Sometimes somebody else
will say something but they don’t even hear it. They are so SUT: Both in speaking and listening we need to remember to
busy thinking about what they want to say that it bounces off keep our attention on ourselves, and not to pay so much
their ears. It does not go into their head. They hear it but they attention to the person who is speaking when they are
don’t absorb it. speaking because that takes too much energy. If you stay with

171
yourself you will still hear the person, but you can remain to get angry, but there is never anything we should get angry
aware. So you must remember to keep bringing the attention about.
back to yourself, both when you speak and when you listen.
__________________________________________
Yogi: To stay with the body, to stay with yourself?
Yogi: I find it much easier to understand what is happening in
Interpreter: Anything inside yourself, mind and body. my mind when we’re talking than when I’m in meditation.

Yogi: Are you saying we should only pay attention to

ourselves? Both when listening and speaking? That we
SUT: Yes, it’s easier. When we talk, we have to think before we
shouldn’t worry about the tone and the body language of the
talk so it’s obvious. When we want to say something to
other person?
someone, we have to know our attitude and what we want to
SUT: Pay attention mostly to yourself, the rest will be noticed convey to that person. If we have the wrong attitude then
automatically. You don’t have to do it on purpose. The mind we’re going to burn that conversation, burn that bridge.
will do it naturally.
Our attitudes are in everything. We have preconceived ideas,
Yogi: It’s like when somebody says something and instead of we’ve already made assumptions about that person, where
paying attention to all the negative things, all the dull things, that person is coming from, their motivations, et cetera.
you just keep your attention with yourself, you don’t react. Instead of doing that we would do better to come with a
simple attitude, ‘What does this person want?’
SUT: If you remain interested in your reactions and not
interested in what the person is saying, you will hear the As parents it’s worse because one of the common things
complaints and dull things and all, but your interest will be in parents have in mind when they speak with their children is
your reactions, you’ll have something interesting to do while ‘you’ve got to listen to me!’
that person goes on.
__________________________________________
Yogi: What if I start feeling angry that that person is saying
something that’s not right?

SUT: If they are saying something that’s not right, that’s their
business. There is never a good reason to be angry. We choose

172
You’re beginning to understand things about how
mindfulness operates during a conversation. People learn
from these conversations, even if it’s afterwards.

Remind yourself that what you’re bringing into the

conversation is your awareness. You’re not speaking because
you want to talk but because you want to be aware. Because of
habit you won’t be able to do it, but if you remind yourself to
do this before every conversation it will slowly sink in. This
new habit of being aware while you speak can take over. It
depends which of the two—the desire to be aware or the desire
to speak—is stronger. The stronger one will prevail.

When we don’t speak for the whole day, particularly if we’re

holding back, then the urge to speak can become quite strong.
So remember to adjust the attitude: ‘I am speaking to practice
Yogi: I’m noticing is that my mindfulness is not really there
awareness.’
when I’m talking. Before I talk I might plan to be mindful, but
when I’m talking I lose it because I’m too interested in what’s Know the awareness, know that you are aware before you
happening and there also is greed involved. I’m aware of that begin speaking, and continue to check that awareness is still
after, but during the time it’s too intense. there, that you’re still aware.

The most important mind is the awareness itself. We really

have to recognize it’s there, appreciate it’s there, acknowledge
SUT: It’s very good you noticed that. It’s good that even
it’s there—so that it is there! [Laughter]
though you think you’re not aware there’s some little bit of
remembering and you’re able to reflect afterwards and know When we laugh, knowing that we’re laughing, knowing that
that there was greed, and know that the mind lost its we know we’re laughing. Whatever we know is fun, just know
awareness because it was too interested, and things like that. it because it’s important to know. If we develop this habit of
You can reflect on these things and learn from them, and knowing whatever comes up and knowing that we’re knowing,
prepare yourself for the next conversation. it becomes easier to know in daily life.
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S ECTION 59 I appreciated any sort of contact with my teacher. Even if we
weren't talking about my practice, or anything specifically to
Teacher do with me, my teacher was a storehouse of Dhamma
information. You could learn something from anything.

There were times when I would see him every evening. I'd give
him some massage and just talk about everything under the
sun. He would say one or two things, and whatever came out
of him was like the sounding of a bell.

Later on when I was teaching, every evening I would go and

Yogi: I wonder if Sayadaw would just talk about relationship tell him about it. After a while, he might be busy or something
with teachers, and how that might change over a course of and he told me, “Tell me if there is something important.”
training. What is a proper relationship with a teacher? There wasn’t the necessity to tell him everything about all the
yogis any more.
In the beginning of my spiritual life I wanted a teacher who
would tell me everything so I wouldn’t have to think for Then, when I was going every once in a while, my teacher
myself. And then that went into where I more or less wanted would give me his whole attention because he knew that if I
an advisor. And now it's sort of pick-and-choose kind of thing. had come it was important. So the relationship changes.

Sometimes I would go simply to be with him. He would be

busy with someone or something else. It's not that I had
SUT: Yes, that's how it is. In my relationship with my teachers
conversations with him, but just watching the way he dealt
initially I didn't know anything about Dhamma or meditation,
with people and situations, the things he chose to do, where
and I relied on my teacher for information, guidance, and
he sat and how he sat, everything spoke to me.
instruction. Once my own practice had become quite strong
and skilful, I didn't ask my teacher so much for advice about Once I was talking to my teacher and I was very busy and
the practice. If I had some difficulty I would try to find my involved in talking to him. At one point my teacher suddenly
own way first. If it was really difficult I would go and see said, “So-and-so is coming.” And I was shocked. How did he
whether I could get a different perspective from him. know?

174
Then I heard the sound of a car running outside. I realized my SUT: It's true, there can be conflict in teacher-student
teacher had already heard the car. It was then that it struck relationships when there is no wisdom on the part of the
me how he must have this bird's eye view of everything going student or no wisdom on the part of the teacher. That's why I
on. He would never get so fully involved in something to the don't want to be a teacher.
exclusion of everything else. He knew everything going on in
[in English] I'm not guru, I’m not special. Just sharing.
his environment and he acknowledged whatever came up as
well. I am just sharing, very honestly, very simply. Whatever I
know, I share. I have no wish to impose my views on you, ‘this
And then I wondered a bit further. I thought, yes, there's a car
is right and you must do it’. I’ll give you what you like about
running outside, how did he know it was that particular
the practice. If you like it, I will tell you more. If you don't like
person? After some thought I realized it was the particular
it, who cares, you can leave it, it’s okay.
sound of a particular car. Every time the sound of this car
comes, this person arrives. It's not that my teacher was __________________________________________
psychic. He sits there in his kuti every day doing the same
thing. Yogi: How important does Sayadaw think it is to stick with
one teacher? We have a million and one Dhamma talks in our
[in English] Never looking! computers and all that. And sometimes it’s really confusing, I
like to listen to talks then a kind of fear arises in me—‘Should
With experience his mind just knows.
I do this? Or should I do that?’ Should we stick with one
There are many people who think Shwe Oo Min Sayadawgyi teacher or try to gather all the information?
was psychic. But I know he wasn’t psychic but that he had a
lot of wisdom. And because of his wisdom he knew and
understood things. If it had been just a matter of being SUT: There’s no hard and fast rule. Basically, what you need is
psychic I wouldn't find it as impressive as the wisdom at work. a good teacher. If you find your teacher beneficial for you,
then that’s what you do. Just remember not to close all the
__________________________________________
doors.
Yogi: How can a student develop a good, wholesome
I practiced with my own teacher for a long time, from when I
relationship with a teacher? Because there are traditions
was a child. For me my teacher was a like a confidant. I would
where the teacher is never questioned. It becomes difficult.
try other things and come back and tell my teacher about it
175
and have my teacher’s view on it. Not that as a young child or
a teenager I necessarily listened to everything my teacher said.
But when I got older, when I had more experience in
meditation, it all came back to me. I tried many things, I am
not saying that you must, just let your own wisdom decide
what’s right for you all the time, in every moment. My own
teacher said to me, when you have a sleeve you finish it by
sewing a seam, don’t sew the seams on your teachers, that is
to say, don’t stop learning.

Yogi: I think there are a lot of people out shopping these days.

SUT: That’s because their own wisdom is not strong, so maybe

they are looking for something that resonates with them. This
happened in the Buddha’s time too, the Kalama Sutta talks
about it. At that time the Buddha was there and now the
Buddha is not here. So ask yourself if your greed or aversion is
increasing? Do you feel your awareness, your samādhi, the
good qualities of your mind getting better day by day?

If you are in an environment with a teacher where the good

qualities of the mind are getting better, you’re finding more
and more about how to deal with the negativities and so on,
then stay there. When you think of something, and even the
thought of it disturbs the mind, then don’t think of it that way,
don’t follow that thought.

What we need to do is cultivate our own awareness, samādhi,

and wisdom, and wisdom will lead us, it will show the way,
what’s right and what’s not. Your mind is your own teacher.
This mind is the teacher, but it is also its own student.
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S ECTION 60 Yogi: Should I think ‘this is not interesting for me’, or
something like that?
Thinking/ The Intention to SUT: No, not like that. Just know, mind is happening, mind is
Think happening.

There was another yogi sitting in meditation, he had a thought

about something, and continued thinking about that subject.
He didn’t stop being aware, he was aware, mind was thinking
about this. He finished the sitting session and went to do
walking meditation and the mind stopped thinking about the
Yogi: In this practice, I’ve found that after sitting for a while subject. Then the yogi came back for another sitting session
my mind gets still, very calm, it continues for a long time, and and the thought continued from where it had left off!
then suddenly a thought comes and then I’m aware of the [Laughter]
thought, and then that thought goes with another thought
related to that subject, maybe it is food. [Laughter] And then It shows that the mind is interested in the subject matter of
another one comes. It’s like opening the floodgates. And then that thought. It wants to think about it. When the mind thinks
I see it going and going and going, and this is not only today’s continuously and we’re aware of it, then it’s not enough to just
food or yesterday’s food, it’s any food I have ever consumed! know the mind is thinking, we have to see the intention to
think. The mind wants to think, the desire to think is also
there. Only when the desire to think is less will the thinking
become less.
SUT: So what happens when you’re aware of all this?
Now you are seeing the subject matter, it may be food, and it
Yogi: When I’m aware of it? More food thoughts!
keeps coming, but you don’t recognize that the mind likes this
SUT: If you’re interested in the subject of the thought, then and wants to keep generating this. Sometimes if we ask
your mind will think more about the subject. ourselves, “Why is the mind thinking so much?” Then we
might detect the desire to think.
You need to recognize the functioning of the mind, that the
mind is thinking, and not get into the subject of the thought.

177
Another yogi was watching her mind thinking and asked Yogi: In formal meditation or just in daily life I find myself
herself that question, ‘Why is the mind thinking so much?’ getting lost in thought without being aware. Sometimes you
She realized it was because it wanted to entertain itself. Once become aware that you are aware, then you find you’re lost in
we know the cause, that usually stops it. thought again, then again you become aware. In Sayadaw’s
teaching there is no primary object to come back to, so how to
When we look at thoughts we can understand things
help make the lost-in-thought less and the being-aware more.
surrounding them, for example cause and effect, right or
wrong, good or bad. It doesn’t matter that there’s thinking,
there can be thought, but what can we understand about it?
SUT: There are several reasons for getting lost in thought.
What can we understand about what’s happening?
First, sometimes we just get lost in thought, you can’t help
__________________________________________ that, so forget about it. When you realize that you have got
lost in thought just start being aware again, you can have a
primary object if you want, or not.
Yogi: If I have the thought that it’s ‘not right’ and I’m aware
The second reason for getting lost in thought is when we try to
of it, then that’s just another object.
observe thinking but we don’t know how to recognize that
thinking is the mind, that thinking is an object. Instead we
look at what the thoughts are about and then we get sucked
SUT: Right. Yes. Why do we want to recognize thoughts? So into thinking. If the tendency is to do that, then don’t spend
that we can begin to recognize whether thoughts are too much time observing thought. Recognize there is thought
wholesome or unwholesome, necessary or unnecessary, so and then be aware of other things as well.
that we can make wise choices about what goes through the
mind. And then the third way to deal with it is to be aware of the
awareness when you are observing a thought. If you are able
We want that sort of understanding to arise. to remember the awareness when observing a thought, you
are less likely to get sucked in because you are aware of the
presence of the awareness. But if you can’t do that then, again,
__________________________________________ you will get sucked into the thought.

__________________________________________
178
Yogi: While the mind is resting in awareness it seems difficult So it’s that level of thinking that you can actually be aware of
to have a thought. Often the instruction is to ‘watch the without losing your awareness, although it doesn’t stop. At the
thought’; but while the watching happens, if a thought arises, conscious level, yes, when you are aware, it feels like you are
the resting in awareness is reduced. So it kind of seems resting because you are not doing anything extraneous. If we
mutually exclusive to watch and think. It’s kind of tricky to are not aware at the conscious level the mind does a lot of
explain. gross thinking and that thinking takes up a lot of energy, it
saps us of our energy, it’s not necessary sometimes.

I tell some beginners to recognize thinking whenever it arises,

SUT: Yes, when the awareness is strong it is difficult to think
and because there’s a lot of this gross level thinking they keep
intentionally. There is a level of thought that is subconscious,
trying to recognize it and recognize it, and they say, ‘Oh, it’s so
or at a subtler level. At the conscious level, yes, when the
tiring!’ And then the thinking reduces, and they’re so tired of
awareness is strong you can’t really think and when you think,
thinking. They recognize that they’re thinking so much.
you don’t seem to be so aware. That’s a very gross level. At a
subtle level there are levels of thinking that never stop. Even if __________________________________________
you are asleep those thoughts don’t stop, they manifest as
Yogi: And once the thought isn’t there, because I have been
dreams and so on.
trained in a method that you go to the body, I just wait for my
awareness to direct me to wherever is prominent, and I go
with that. Is that the correct way?

SUT: Just continue like that. This subtle level thinking, this
internal dialogue is what we are. It’s how we function. We do
everything because our internal dialogue tells us to do it.
Whether it’s to wait for the awareness to see where it will go,
it’s all directed, but you don’t see it. You think it did it by
itself... It’s like right there at the back of our heads, it’s
directing the show. That’s the subtle level of thinking. But we
are not used to turning back and recognizing that this is
179
directing me, and those are thoughts. We don’t recognize that. the understanding of what’s happening, and all that. All those
So sometimes it’s there but we don’t even realize that these thoughts come up. It takes concepts, like distance, it
are the thoughts we’re talking about. understands the concepts involved. All that we can’t stop, it’s
automatic.
For example when there’s no more thought, your mind has
already said to you there’s no thought now. [Laughter] These Another thought that we have is the sense of I, a sense of me.
are the thoughts I am talking about, but you don’t know that It’s a thought that we hold, an idea, but we don’t see it as an
this is thinking. It’s not you thinking, it’s a natural mental idea, it’s so pervasive in the mind. We use words that always
activity. A natural process. That is the thought that you want indicate the sense of self to us. We say ‘I do this’, ‘this is my
to see. shoe’, ‘this is my place’, ‘she is talking to me’, so we use it and
that’s an indication of that idea present in the mind, but it’s
In that internal dialogue is all our motivation. It’s the real
difficult to catch it.
reason we do things, whether we really have mettā or a
defilement or whatever behind our actions, it’s in there. How many times do we notice during a day the use of this
reference in our thoughts, in our interactions with people and
__________________________________________
situations? Have we noticed how much we reference the I? We
Yogi: Does it ever get to a point where thinking stops?
don’t even notice it. Even when we comb the hair and it falls,
‘My hair, my hair…’ [Laughter]

SUT: At the gross level we can know quite easily that there is Yogi: But it’s very hard. I try consciously not to use ‘I’,
no thinking, but that subtle level thinking… Sometimes when especially when writing or talking, and it’s very hard to
the mind becomes very continuously aware and gets very communicate without using it!
deep, sometimes it can get to where those subtle thoughts are
SUT: At the same time we can’t not use the words. They are a
very, very short. They don’t do so much work anymore
tool to function in this world. But what we want to recognize
because they’re not busy, there might just be a little bit here
is that we are using the word, and that in the moment that we
and there.
use it and reference it, are we using it as a tool, recognizing
But at that level, there are still the natural functions of the that it is just a reference? Or are we fully invested in the idea?
mind where the mind naturally knows what’s happening,
When our understanding of the fact that it’s a reference grows
therefore there are thoughts about what’s happening, there’s
and we recognize it, then the belief in the reference becomes
180
less. We are more able in the moment to recognize that we aware of, and then sometimes the ideas attract you and you
need to use it as a reference and not as a real idea. get sucked in.

When you don’t understand, then when you’re angry you So you check whether the mind is more aware of the concept
believe how angry you are. When you begin to understand of the experience or the reality of the experience. Know the
then you still say ‘I am angry’, it’s still anger, but you are not difference between the subject of a thought and recognizing
so fully caught up in how much you believe you are angry. that thinking is happening. If you weren’t being aware you
There’s not so much power in the idea that 'I am angry'. would be in the subject of the thought, just thinking, but if
you’re aware there can be recognition that thinking is
happening. This is thought, and that’s the reality.
My teacher very seldom used the word ‘I’, he would indicate
__________________________________________
by saying, “Here, here.” He would say, “Here is saying...”
Yogi: Does Sayadaw encourage holding on to the element of
__________________________________________
reality? And the other thing is about exploring: if you can use
Yogi: How to keep with just letting this rain of ideas fall, and
as a barometer, as a test, if you’re still in touch with the
not catching on? Not responding? Is it a good idea to just let
subtleness of the sensations, can you then try and expand on
the ideas arise and fall? How can we avoid engaging with
the thought as well?
these ideas?

SUT: Yes, definitely both. It has to do with how much wisdom

SUT: There’s a subtle difference: we’re not trying to prevent
or intelligence is there, how much the mind understands. It is
the mind from getting involved. At the same time, if the right
when you have that level of understanding that you are able to
work is being done, yes, the mind won’t get involved. So if the
hold on to something and then investigate subtle things like
mind is—if you’re aware of the awareness—less likely to get
thoughts, and their nature, and what they’re like. Not
involved in the rain of thoughts.
intellectually but to be able to watch them and understand
When you recognize the meditator, the awareness, you have their construction and deconstruction, or whatever.
an eye on whether the meditator is doing its work or not, so it
Just as an example, we notice our thoughts as words, as
continues its work. When you’re not so aware of the meditator
images: in what other ways do we experience thought?
then sometimes the attention then strays to what you’re being
181
Yogi: As emotions, feelings. much. At the same time, you need to have a sense of direction,
sometimes the mind forgets what else to do. So as you thought
SUT: Emotions are separate, feelings are separate from
just now, ‘Okay, I’ll relax a little bit and then investigate
thinking. Thinking is one function, feeling is another function.
further.’ That sort of thinking is necessary.
Interpreter: Sometimes we just know there was a thought if
there weren’t words, an image.

SUT: The conceptual part of the thoughts help us to know

there is thought, like words and images, but there are other
realities behind thought: the motivations behind the thoughts,
and how a thought is just a thought.

When we’re angry we think, but the anger is separate from

thinking. Thinking is just doing that function, the anger uses
it as a vehicle. And you can see these separate natures so to
speak.

Initially we’ll see the conceptual stuff about thinking and then
we’ll begin to be able to see beyond just the concepts and
know some of the reality surrounding the nature of thinking.
And then when you have these thoughts that direct you, you
__________________________________________
can also notice that some of it is wise—as in your case—
Yogi: And within awareness or mindfulness, does thinking, as sometimes it’s not wise, as in when it thinks it needs to choose
long as there’s not too much of it, have a useful part to play? something.

So it’s very important to recognize them so that you can then

choose whether this is possibly doing the right thing or the
SUT: Yes, you’re exactly right. Not too much thinking, but wrong thing. And even if you did the wrong thing, at least you
when the thought process is to support the awareness, the know you made the choice and now it’s wrong so next time
noticing, how you want to direct it gently, not control it too you won’t make that choice! Learn from it. It needs to be

182
there, don’t think you can’t have this process of learning as
well.

[in English] Supervisor and worker—supervisor very

important! If you know supervisor, worker boom-boom-boom
[works very well].

The supervisor could be wisdom or it could be defilement. So

you need to watch out and learn which one is wisdom and
which one is defilement, as you see the effects.

When we’re told not to think in meditation then we’ve

basically told the supervisor to take a break. [Laughter] When
we cut out the supervisor we then cut out both the bad and the
good supervisor. You need to allow it, to learn which is good
and which is not.

183
S ECTION 61

Tuning, Balance/ How to I don’t want you to use too much energy to focus because it
creates tension. I want people to balance being relaxed and
Practise interested. Interest brings viriya naturally, without our
individual effort. There’s more wisdom. It’s quite difficult to
explain.

If I tell people to just focus, oh, it’s very easy, they’re good at
it. If I says, “Not enough effort,” people will just go all the way.
Very easy for us to do that.
SUT: There are limits to everything. There is too much of
anything. Wisdom will tell us when it’s too much. When you We’re very, very skilful at using our defilements to
begin to realize this is too much or too little then you learn to concentrate, using anger to concentrate, using greed to
balance. concentrate. If we like something our mind is fully absorbed
in it. If a girl passes by, our concentration is really there!
If we want to know what the right tuning is we have to listen [Laughter] Focusing and concentrating is so natural for the
to it continuously, not just turn it one way and then another. defilements. When we’re angry we’re also stuck on the object,
We have to watch continuously. That’s what we aim to do in we can’t get our minds off it.
meditation, to turn it up and turn it down, to tune it.
But when I say, “Don’t focus. Use wisdom and interest,” then
Because we’re not skilful in meditation we need to tune. We’re if we don’t understand what that means it’s quite hard to get
all going to be too much or too little. Keep an eye on what around to it.
we’re doing, check whether it’s sounding like ‘eee’! [Laughter]
What I am trying to do is program all of you. [Laughter] This
I have seen yogis who are tense up to the hilt. Who don’t even programming is also part of the wisdom of the practice:
realize that they are causing the tension. And then when they getting the right information. With the program then we can
are told to relax, they go to sleep. Too much or too little. use the application software.
It’s like making lime juice, you have to have some sour, some __________________________________________
sweet, some salt, to get the right balance.

184
Yogi: Talking about the awareness, I sometimes feel that I am don’t allow the mind to recognize itself and how it’s working,
the awareness. I get a bit excited, and more focused on it, and then we can’t get beyond that.
then it goes.
Then we don’t get skillful with the practice because we don’t
see cause and effect. How the mind balances itself when it is
working in a certain way, how stability of mind is developed
SUT: When this sort of view comes in, the feeling that there is
because the mind has been applying itself, how this much
just the awareness although there is the identification with
focus helps this way, how too much focus or less focus doesn’t
yourself, it’s very shy, so don’t stare at it, don’t put in more
help. All these things.
energy. Peek at it from the corner of your eye.

It’s a very natural process. When the awareness becomes

strong enough it seems to back away and then see itself. It’s
very natural. But if you think, ‘Oh, this is good,’ and then you
get excited and you want it, there is craving, and craving
disturbs the stability of mind. It’s all natural cause and effect.
When there is stability it will naturally back away and be
aware of itself.

Generally, because of their training, yogis tend to be so

involved in trying to apply their attention on to an object that
they forget to do this. Even when the mind actually gets strong
enough they are still busy training applying themselves to the
object that they miss what’s happening in the mind.

So although the mind might be backing up and being more

aware of a larger view, they are not conscious of it because At any meditation retreat yogis always report good
they’re busy applying themselves to the objects. That’s why it’s experiences and bad experiences. Sometimes they have a good
so important to recognize how the mind is working. Just as it mindfulness, sometimes they don’t have good mindfulness.
is, this is the mind at work, this is how it is working. If we But if you ask them why, they don’t know, because they aren’t
looking at how the mind has been being mindful.
185
We are generally so busy looking at what we are observing of understanding and equanimity, then you can bring the
that we don’t really realize how we are observing it. How did practice further. Or the practice will further itself.
we observe it? Did we observe it gently? With greed? Without
It’s like doing business. First, you have to understand how to
greed? Without expectation? What idea did we have? Did we
make money, and then you have to know how to save it and
go in simply or did we think ‘oh this is good, I must do it’?
grow it, and then you have to know how to expand it, to use
What were the ideas at play when we were aware that made it
that money to make it go further.
feel like good mindfulness or not good mindfulness?
The practice of meditation is the same. First, you must learn
That’s why we have highs and lows in meditation, rather than
how to practice, then you must maintain the practice for a
just slight humps. If you don’t have good mindfulness, take a
long time. Once you can maintain a steady practice then you
shower, it becomes good again. [Laughter] At the Meditation
can use that to explore further, to maintain and grow it. All
Centre when people are having a bad time trying to be
this is possible because of understanding. It’s all the work of
mindful, they go and take a shower, everything is refreshed
understanding, understanding how the mind works and
because the state of the mind has changed. So it’s really
understanding how to practice.
important to know your own mind and how it is working and
has been working so that you know how to adjust it. Some people know how to make money but they never save,
they get money and they spend it, they get money and they
When you understand your own mind and how it works, that
spend it, so they don’t get rich. They know how to make
makes you skilful at your own practice. Nobody needs to tell
money but they don’t become wealthy. You must not only
you how to adjust it, you start learning the machinations of
know how to make the money, you must know how to make it
the mind. That’s why I keep talking about being aware of the
grow. All this is the work of intelligence and wisdom.
mind, because it is especially important to know the mind that
is doing the observing, how it is affected, and how it works. __________________________________________
Eventually that sort of understanding helps us to maintain Yogi: This wisdom mind, it jumps on ‘you had a good
more and more equanimity in our mind, we don’t get upset experience’, and then in the next sitting it’s all fallen apart
with things because we know what to do with them. We know again. You get into a good experience and the next time you
what’s been affecting the mind so we are okay with it, to work seem to be starting at a much more refined level, for example,
with it, and so on. And when you can then maintain that sort maybe in the previous sitting you had a more coarse breath or
your walking was more obvious, a strong or enjoyable
186
experience, and you think that’s good. And then the next And then from repeated checking of these things the mind
sitting you can’t find the breath, you can’t find the walking. finally begins to learn its lessons, it finally begins to realize
what practices are not helpful, what sorts of thoughts are not
helpful. And when it realizes for itself that these are not
SUT: You mentioned how sometimes in one sitting it’s good helpful, it learns the lesson and gives them up.
and then in the next sitting it just becomes more refined
[in English] Learning the lesson is important.
although you don’t know what led to that. Therein lies the
problem, we don’t know what led to that. What happened in But of course you can’t force it either, the mind has got to
the mind? What was the mind thinking in between? learn the lesson.

It’s only when you are seeing what happens in the mind that [in English] If cannot learn the lesson, cannot change.
you’ll start to recognize whether the mind remained neutral
and not expecting anything and therefore reached a more
refined level. Or maybe some defilements came and then you
found in the next sitting that nothing seemed to be right, that
it didn’t come back.

That’s why continuity is important, especially continuity of

awareness of how the mind is thinking and reacting to
everything, because then you will see the cause for the next
effect.

One of the things I tell yogis is if you have had a good sit, don’t
get up. Instead think about what you did, think about what
the attitude of the mind was. If you were having coarse
breathing, what was the attitude? When it became better did
the mind think anything? Was it the same as when it was not
good? What was the mind thinking? Why was it agitated?
What was it wanting? What was it not liking?

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S ECTION 62

Upekkhā SUT: We’re not trying to develop equanimity as a goal. Our

goal is to be aware of what is happening in the present
moment as it is. If there’s upekkhā, yes, you can take upekkhā
as the object. If a defilement arises that unbalances the
upekkhā, the defilement becomes the object. And if the
defilement is no longer there automatically the upekkhā is
present again. Stay with the process as it is.

It is skilful to take upekkhā as an object when there is

upekkhā, because when you are aware of the state of upekkhā
you will instantly know when it is unbalanced.

Sometimes we are not able to recognize upekkhā. We are able

to recognize when it’s pleasant and able to recognize when it’s
unpleasant. When it’s neither pleasant nor unpleasant we
think that we are not feeling anything, instead of recognizing
that that is neither pleasant nor unpleasant, which is possibly
upekkhā. [Laughter]

Yogi: Is it valid to place the awareness on upekkhā and then

watch what disrupts the equanimity as a defilement, and then,
when that defilement is seen, bring the awareness back to the
upekkhā again? And focus the awareness on upekkhā?

188
S ECTION 63 It is just as with people who are depressed: they keep thinking
about how depressed they are and that makes them even more
Watching Defilements depressed.

The Buddha said, “When a mind with greed arises, know that
a mind with greed has arisen.” He didn’t say, “Know that I am
greedy,” or “Know that I am feeling greedy.”

When there is right view you can accept that ‘this is present’
or ‘this is the experience’ because you are looking at it in the
right way. Then you can allow yourself to observe it, to be
Yogi: How do we observe defilements that arise in the mind? conscious of it, and not to fight against it.

We do not deliberately initiate the defilements that arise, we

don’t purposely invite them, they happen naturally in the
SUT: First we need right view, then mindfulness. First, know
mind, they are an occurrence of mind. There are conditions
that the defilement is not ‘mine’. The defilement is an object
present in the mind that make these thoughts and feelings
in the mind, it is a thought that has arisen in the mind,
arise. It’s a natural phenomenon, it is simply conditions giving
recognize it as that and then you can observe it, ‘this is a
rise to effects. You can just observe it.
thought that is happening in the mind.’
Experiences that arise on their own as part of how the mind is
Once we take it as ‘my’ defilement or ‘I am having this akusala
have nothing to do with you. You are not in control of
mind,’ wrong view is present. We will resist the defilement
everything that happens. What you need to do, or what you
and it will increase, because then there is the original
can try to do, is to have right view towards all experiences.
defilement, and also the new defilement that has arisen in the
observing mind. Everything that we experience in the present moment is
simply an effect of something that was done in the past.
The attitude that you want to bring to the experience is ‘this is
Simply effects of causes that have already manifested. You
an object,’ ‘this is being known,’ ‘now mindfulness is
cannot stop them.
conscious of this experience.’ That’s how you want to see it.
Right view must be there even before mindfulness. Right view
is even more important than mindfulness itself.
189
While you cannot change the past, you can change the defilement or if there’s any resistance, it seems to make it
present. You now have some borrowed wisdom and you can stick around longer or become worse. Very commonly
also use your own innate wisdom to think about what is difficulty in meditation is experienced because we are not
happening, and consciously change your view towards it, so experiencing things as we would like them to be.
that you can accept it and just be aware of it.
We also need to consider the power of the defilement that’s
Instead of allowing the effect in the present moment—this being experienced and the power of our own practice. How
present experience—to overwhelm you and become a negative strong is our sati samādhi? How sustained is our sati
experience, what you can do is to see it correctly, to observe it. samādhi? How much have we been practicing? All that. We
It will come and it will pass away in its own time. And if you need to consider the balance of the powers. It can be that
do this, it will not snowball because you are not feeding it with when the defilement is very strong and the power of the sati
wrong view anymore. samādhi is not that strong that we will find it difficult going as
well.
So use right view in the present moment, and be conscious.
The defilement won’t grow if you use right view and When the defilement is very strong and we are weak, then
awareness. sometimes a direct battle is not possible, we won’t win. In
such a case we need to use our intelligence. We have to run
__________________________________________
around, poke it from different sides, try to topple him, poke
Yogi: Sometimes we have to face some defilements that are him… [Laughter]
difficult to bear. We work for a long time, we even give up
One of the tricks is to use a neutral object. You know the
because it gets so strong. It’s usually the next day, usually
defilement is there, what you don’t like or what you have
after that it turns around. Sometimes it just disappears. And I
difficulty with is there, but take a neutral object, something
was wondering, is this the nature of defilement, that before it
else, to build sati and samādhi. When you feel the sati
is overcome it gets very strong? Or is it just abandoning the
samādhi getting stronger you can turn back and look at what
battle? The value of surprising the defilement?
was difficult. Just for a moment. And then you can come back.
If it gets stronger then you can go to the neutral object. You
can go back and forth.
SUT: You need to be careful of your attitude towards
defilement. If you have a judgment that it’s a difficult

190
If your sati samādhi is 70% and the defilement is only 30% In the Buddha Dhamma it is explained that the defilements
power, then surely you can turn all your power to it and it will are the enemy and we have to extinguish the enemy, and all
just dissolve. 50-50 is not enough! [Laughter] that sort of thing. But in practice we don’t know how to do it
in a wholesome way. The right thing to do is to rely on the
This is what I means by using wisdom. We learn a lot of this
quality that will be able to battle the defilement effectively and
from the work itself. The work of meditation or even our
to grow that quality. So we don’t directly battle the
normal work. We must bring the same kinds of skills that we
defilements; instead we grow wisdom, which has the ability to
bring to our work to meditation, the same intelligence.
battle the defilements. Rely on wisdom, it will stand by you.
And there is no discounting the value of experience, in the
sense of practice. The more we practice the more experiences
we’ll have, and the more we’ll have to fall back on. We will
have the lessons we’ve learned, more skills, and we’ll
understand more how to do it.

__________________________________________

Yogi: What about these deep defilements we all have? They

constitute so much of our personality and we don’t even know
that they exist.

SUT: Don’t worry about the defilements—they are always

there. Just practice to grow the wisdom. When wisdom is __________________________________________
strong enough it will remove the defilements. Defilements do
Yogi: In samatha, it’s about getting rid of hindrances to focus
their own work. We can’t stop things. We don’t practice with
on jhāna. As I understand it, Sayadaw’s tradition is very much
the goal of actively stopping anything. Rather, the practice is
about focusing on where the defilements are and trying to
to grow the good qualities actively, wisdom and awareness. So
eliminate the defilements and grow the wholesome roots at
do what you can, don’t work with what you cannot.
the same time, as a base for wisdom.

191
Interpreter: Hindrances are defilements, it’s just another SUT: When you see the defilement is just a dhamma, is just
name, just another categorization. another dhamma, then… If we don’t see the defilement as
defilement, what do we see it as? It’s dhamma, nature. Kusala
SUT: The five hindrances are lobha, dosa and three different
and akusala are both dhamma. Akusala dhamma and kusala
kinds of moha. Kamachanda is lobha, byāpāda is dosa, and
dhamma.
then thīna-middha (sloth and torpor), udhacca-kukkucca
(restlessness and worry), vicikicchā (doubt) are all moha. So __________________________________________
they are the defilements.
Yogi: Today, when I was speaking I had some judgments, and
The focus is not to eliminate the defilements. If we try to I noticed a separation when I had that judgment. And then on
eliminate the defilements we will only try to eliminate them reflection I noticed there was a subtle disappointment with
with other defilements, because we don’t know how to myself for having the judgment. Sometimes I notice, or the
eliminate them. We are full of delusion, we won’t know how to mind notices some subtle thoughts, they might just be a flash,
get rid of something as skilful as a defilement. We have to rely like a little, tiny image.
on wisdom, which can deal with the defilements. So what we
My question is, do I just keep watching? Because often after I
do is try to understand the defilements. How do they work?
have seen it, I can trace it back and find where that thought
When do they work? What is their nature?
came from. Is that okay? To do a little bit of tracing back to
So that’s why we use them as objects of observation. From the the initial learning?
investigation of a defilement, when we learn more about it, we
can become free of it, because the wisdom grows. When we
investigate, invariably, inevitably, wisdom will grow. And it’s SUT: Yes, you can definitely do that.
wisdom that can eliminate the defilements. So we rely on
wisdom, we don’t try to eliminate the defilements. I would like to add something. We often naturally feel pleased
with what we experience or we feel upset with what we
__________________________________________ experience, disappointed that we were judgmental. We forget
that we’re aware of all this, we forget the awareness. It’s only
Yogi: What is the best way to deal with defilements? This is a
because we’re aware that we see this. We should be happy that
question I once asked someone, and the answer was once
we were aware! Why do we not appreciate that we were
you’ve seen the defilement, it’s not a defilement.
aware?

192
That’s why I really wants you to know the awareness, because But really they don’t want to know. They don’t want to know
that’s when we appreciate it, and it’s really important to that there’s negativity in the mind. They want to live in the
appreciate awareness. All the defilements’ attention is out delusion that they are fine. But that’s crazy. It’s madness to
there with the objects, they just look at the objects and then live in the delusion that ‘I’m okay and I have no defilements’,
make judgments. to be satisfied with that.

When I was little and I was starting to meditate, I remember In the retreat in Melbourne in 2008 one lady came and
my Sayadaw saying this to me, “Whatever you know, just be asked, “Are you sure your technique is to purify the mind?”
happy you know it.” And that stayed with me. When she looked at her mind all she saw were the
negativities. Before that she had been practicing ānāpāna and
I had so much faith in my teacher! I would know something, I
of course she had felt a bit of peace and therefore thought that
didn’t understand anything about the thing, but I would be so
it was purifying the mind. Once she turned and looked back at
happy because I knew it!
the mind and saw all the things that were there she thought,
It was in the years when I was practicing very hard that I ‘This practice is not purifying my mind.’
began truly to appreciate the meaning of what my teacher had
When the lady asked me this question it became very clear to
taught me. In the knowing, the awareness, there’s a wisdom
me that yes, this practice will purify the mind because you are
because we have brought attention to something. It’s real. We
fulfilling the cause for wisdom to arise. You’re bringing in
know what is, as it is, and it’s wholesome. The knowing is
awareness, and awareness will be the cause for wisdom to
wholesome. Knowing and understanding are wholesome. So
arise, which will purify the mind. I was very sure then.
from a young age I have been very intimate with these terms
of knowing and understanding, and being able just to I asked her, “Do you want to live with the delusion that the
appreciate that. mind is okay, or do you really want to know what’s in the
mind?”
Mostly when we see negativities in our minds, we feel
disappointed, we feel upset. Yogis come to me saying,
“Sayadaw, I’m not like this at home, I’ve come to this centre
and I’m so angry… so jealous… There are many bad things in
my mind. I don’t want to be like this, I’m not like this!”

193
Yogi: All our qualities, and then trying to be aware to change
them.

Interpreter: To learn about them…

Yogi: And gaining wisdom once we are able to turn it around,

to turn the bad qualities into wholesome qualities.

SUT: First we need to recognize and understand that what is

unwholesome is unwholesome. Only when we fully
understand that it’s unwholesome will the mind want to clean
it. If we know it’s dirty we will want to clean it, then it will be
cleaned. The problem is when we don’t even know it’s dirty.

__________________________________________ My teacher always said, beginning to know that you are not
perfect is getting closer to getting better. But when we think
Yogi: When you start observing those little ‘nasties’ that you’d that we are okay, there is something wrong.
rather not see, just being aware, not trying to do anything with
them… Suppose a person knows everything about himself, everything
positive about himself honestly and everything negative about
himself honestly, if someone comes and praises him he will
not easily be led; if someone comes and criticizes him he will
SUT: You must have right view. This is nature, this is not my
not easily be disappointed. It’s bad not to know. In Burmese
mind. Not mine. Then it’s easier to watch it, to understand its
there’s a saying, ‘not knowing is so bad’.
nature. Very few people realize that knowing what is bad is
bad is wisdom. Right understanding. __________________________________________

Yogi: Most of the time we’re looking out at others whereas Yogi: Can you have all the defilements lobha-dosa-moha at
mindfulness is looking at ourselves. Mindfulness is looking at once? It was confusing for me but looking back actually had
ourselves and seeing our negativities— all the elements. They usually get separated…

Interpreter: And positivities!

194
SUT: Experientially, yes, it can feel like everything at once. [in English] Very strong and very long time.
Theoretically delusion can arise with greed or aversion at any
We have a good opportunity to just observe the anger for a
one time, but experientially, because it all happens at once,
long time, but also to observe it with equanimity. Observation
you can be angry and wanting to be angrier, which is greed.
over a long time will give you a fuller picture.
And things like that. So yes, you can experience all three at
once.

Yogi: And then I get confused. Trying to feel something

different.

SUT: The defilements tend to come like gangsters, in gangs.

[Laughter]

Yogi: It felt like being besieged!

SUT: When there is attachment there is also the fear of losing

what you’re attached to, that’s the lobha and the dosa again.
Fear is dosa.

__________________________________________

Yogi: The defilements and so on, it’s not at all completely

obvious why they’re not wholesome. It’s not obvious. In a way
the average person’s experience doesn’t really answer…

SUT: That’s why awareness is necessary. Most people have

had many experiences but probably not had much awareness.
And that’s why they can’t understand. If we are angry for a
long time about something—

195
S ECTION 64 Once the mind is familiar with the place it knows, ‘Okay, now
I can go round this place.’ If we don't have enough
Wisdom/ Understanding information the mind feels agitated. It feels insecure.

__________________________________________

Yogi: You said as the defilements recede wisdom arises. Does

that mean that in every mind there is an inherent wisdom but
that it is blocked by defilements, and when we reduce
defilements wisdom arises?

Yogi: When we make a decision, we use our wisdom. But

every experience is new. How can we balance wisdom and
SUT: In every mind there is the potential for wisdom to flower
judgment, or prejudice?
when the defilements are reduced and sati is present in that
mind. Sati is a prerequisite for wisdom to arise. In
abhidhamma all the ñāna minds are with sati. Without sati,
SUT: How does wisdom arise? Essentially wisdom arises the ñāna minds cannot arise. That's why when we can
when the mind is free of the hindrances, when there are less maintain sati and samādhi, because samādhi suggests that the
defilements in the mind, when it's calmer. That's when defilements are weak, wisdom can arise.
wisdom is able to function. For every situation you need
information, particularly if it's a new situation. When all the five faculties—sati, samādhi, viriya, saddhā and
paññā, paññā in this case meaning what you know in order to
If the mind is calm and seeing clearly but there is no practice—are put together with whatever theory you have, and
information then you need to make the effort to gather some the defilements are less, when it keeps going the potential
information. Once you have the required information and the wisdom that is there has the space to flower. It can then
mind is clear, with that information the mind will see what slowly grow.
needs to be done.
Yogi: So there's always potential wisdom?
I noticed in myself that whenever I go to a new place the mind
starts looking around because it is not familiar with the place. SUT: Yes. It's just not strong.
I look where the toilet is, where the exits are, who lives where.
196
__________________________________________ Yogi: In hearing Sayadaw talk about intelligence and wisdom,
Another Yogi: Although I have experienced looking at anger I’m now thinking creative and inventive. And that gives me a
and looking at aversion and seeing them subside, I’ve good feeling. I think that’s what I often need to do, to open my
experienced it but I don’t understand it. Although I mind to be creative and inventive because I’m presented with
understand how you can reduce the defilements, I don’t something like anxiety, and it’s like I’ve only got one approach
understand why they would lessen by being looked at. to it that doesn’t work.

SUT: It takes many, many observations of defilements, SUT: Not to blindly use just one thing but to root around.
watching them, watching them subside and so on, before
Yogi: It also automatically gives me a sense of increased
understanding arises. I did a lot before understanding began
energy because interest is there.
to arise, maybe two years of continuous observation….
SUT: We limit ourselves to the few things that the teacher tells
us sometimes. Actually these are just pointers. We must use
our own wisdom. When we are in real difficulty necessity is
the mother of invention.

Yogi: I know with greater wisdom I will see the light, but I
don’t see it now.

SUT: We cannot imagine what it would be like to be without

attachment to these minds, all we can do is to walk the path.
There is no need to imagine what it might be like because it’s
impossible for you to imagine how it might be better or worse,
or whatever. The only answer we’ll get to imagining what it
might be like is probably the opposite of what it actually
would be like. We can never imagine how wisdom could be. So
__________________________________________
live with what is present. Live with what we have now.

197
__________________________________________ trying to practice but I was calm and receptive. I took the soap
and smelled it, and suddenly it hit me.
Yogi: A person was told to be 100% responsible for your own
emotions and for your reactions to other people. He had [in English]: Why can the nose know the smell? The strong
probably heard it before, but on that day it landed for him. understanding that this is a cause and effect relationship and
Not that he can do it perfectly—but that commitment did that this is the only way it will be, the anattā nature of it just
happen. I’m puzzled by that. Why does it happen? It’s like hit me so hard, I was so amazed! After the shower I was going
luck. round to all my brothers and said, “Do you know, you can only
smell with your nose?”

I went to tell my teacher about it and my teacher said, “When

SUT: Many conditions must come together. There’s a
you understand something don't go and tell everybody, they’ll
gathering of conditions, and also, possibly, in the immediate
think you’re crazy."
present conditions like being calm, paying attention, and
being open come together. So all those conditions are present Why is it so amazing? We all know that we can only smell with
and you are thus very receptive. We are at our most accepting our nose. We all know that but the level of understanding is
when our mood is ready, when we are in the right space. different. The objects that we experience are always the same,
the six sense objects are always the same, but when the mind
We may come across an idea or a concept many, many times
is ready and it realizes something, that’s when…
but if we’re not in the right frame of mind at that time, or not
receptive to it for some reason, we won’t take it on. We smell __________________________________________
things daily. We take the smelling it granted. We smell them,
Yogi: Can you elaborate on the word ‘wisdom’?
we smell them, we smell them… but the day I had an insight
into the nature of smell I was shocked!

[in English]: Object is very simple, but understanding very SUT: When it happens you will know. [Laughter]
deep.
There are things that are currently beyond our understanding.
That day as usual I’d been practicing all day. I went home to Even normal vipassanā ñāṇas, they are not lokuttara ñāṇa.
take a shower and I smelled the soap. At that point I wasn’t We can understand things at one level, for example
understanding that things are as they are, or understanding

198
anicca in a theoretical way. I will tell you as a concept, I will apply the knowledge theoretically, logically, bhāvanā, with
use words, which are concepts, but the true understanding of meditation, awareness, I watch it and try to learn about it, I
it can be very deep. look at it, until it might fade, or it might come again, until I
understand it. That’s when I work with it.
So for each person, as much as we understand, that’s the level
to which we imagine it. When we have a new understanding
we suddenly realize another level of it.

Yogi: I’m just wondering what kind of approach Sayadaw

takes, what kind of wisdom does he actually use when things
comes up in the mind?

SUT: My tendency is to use anatta, that things are just as they

are, not personal, there are many ways that you can explain
anatta. At the same time I am very wary of people
intellectualizing it too much. If you keep talking to yourself
and just ramming the right view in all the time, then you just
have your theory but you don’t have an understanding. This is
why I say ask the question but doesn’t look for the answer.
Asking once is enough, you don’t need to keep repeating it to
yourself all the time.
Sometimes there are types of suffering that come up and I
__________________________________________ already understand something about these things. And when I
Yogi: I’m interested in what key elements of wisdom bubble understand them, that understanding immediately comes to
up in Sayadaw’s mind as he deals with any old object. mind, and the mind is relieved of suffering surrounding this
issue.

Interpreter: So I asked him, what is it specifically that comes

SUT: Generally there are two different things. Sometimes to mind? What is his understanding?
there is suffering that I experience and I have no
understanding that relieves me of the suffering, in that case I
199
SUT: There are things I have understood, for example that perception’ and so on, a bit theoretically, but we start to
this is all nature, that this is not personal, or things are as they recognize these functions at work, this nature at work in our
are, this is just an object, this is just being known. mind, and we think of that as detail.

Here is an example, when I understood that something was When there is an understanding, assuming that you’re talking
just an object. I was walking and it hurt. As I took each step it about a Dhamma understanding, when you understand that
hurt and stopped hurting, hurt and stopped hurting, hurt and the fundamental nature of object is so, when you have that
didn’t hurt, hurt and didn’t hurt… As I was looking I suddenly sort of understanding, then yes, there is detail, but not in the
realized hurt is known, when it is not hurt it is known. Pain is way we were talking about just now.
known, no pain is known, pain is known, no pain is known.
We will understand everything that level of wisdom is able to
And suddenly I realized that’s the nature of an object, to be
understand—because even when we understand something
known. When it’s known, that’s the experience.
we don’t always understand 100% of it immediately, do we?
When the mind took that view, then suddenly that’s all it was. Say you understand 6% of the nature of understanding, then
When it was painful the mind wasn’t averse to it, when it was as much as your wisdom is, that’s how much the mind will
not painful the mind wasn’t happy about it, because all it was, understand about everything concerned with the nature of the
was being known. So when it comes to things that realization object. If your understanding was 60%, that’s how much you
can bear upon, then that’s how it relieves me off attachment will understand about everything concerning the nature of the
and aversion around that. object.

__________________________________________

Yogi: If the object is the nature, can the wisdom see more
detail?

SUT: Yes, more detail, wisdom understands detail.

When we talk about detail in our daily practice, we think

about detail as in thinking we are knowing more things, which
is actually more concepts. We start to recognize ‘this is
200
C HAPTER 3

Dhamma
Inspiration

The power to bring peace to the mind

that comes from within the mind itself is
the most powerful because it’s always
available.
S ECTION 1 4. There are limits to everything. There is too much of
anything. Wisdom will tell us when it’s too much. When you
Dhamma Inspiration begin to realize this is too much or too little then you learn to
balance.

If we want to know what the right tuning is we have to listen

to it continuously, not just turn it one way and then another.
We have to watch continuously. That’s what we aim to do in
meditation, to turn it up and turn it down, to tune it.

Because we’re not skilful in meditation we need to tune. We’re

1. Being in the present moment means knowing as much of all going to be too much or too little. Keep an eye on what
your experience in the present moment as possible. Knowing we’re doing, check whether it’s sounding like ‘eee’! [Laughter]
just one thing in the present moment is not called being in the
present moment. If we practice like that then every day is like
a sharp moment because there are so many things to know.
5. Reality is always paired with the concept that we lay over
it, but the reality of the concepts that we usually know has to
be understood. It has to be understood that the reality is
2. Naturally when the mind is angry it sees negatively, it present with the concept. So reality is the object of wisdom.
sees the situation negatively. When there’s no longer anger,
naturally positive points of view can be seen, reasonable
thoughts are possible, and it is possible to forgive. All this
6. Meditation is cultivation of awareness. If you’re aware of
becomes possible when the mind is not angry.
awareness, you’re cultivating it.
When the state of mind changes, the thoughts change.

7. Remember that even with the simplest thing, the right

3. Very commonly difficulty in meditation is experienced thing to remember is that an experience is just an experience.
because we are not experiencing things as we would like them There’s nothing right or wrong about any experience. No
to be. experience is ever wrong. All experiences are just as they are.

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8. Defilements believe in concepts, delusion believes in 14. Without the concept we can never understand the reality
concepts. underlying it. So what wisdom does is understand the reality
which underlies the concept. So it goes beyond the concept to
understand what lies beneath, what lies with it.
9. The mind always takes the object that matches its
qualities.
15. It’s the maintenance of the awareness that keeps it ready,
on standby, so that when we most need it it's there with all its
10. If we want to remember something we have to repeat it gathered power to learn the lesson.
to ourselves constantly or use it constantly, then it comes
easily but once we don’t use it for a long time then you have to
pull it again. 16. There can be no short cuts in meditation.

11. What do you want to know? If there’s nothing we want to 17. Hold on to the awareness. You can move, change
know, no questions will come to mind. posture, do anything you want, but don’t let go of the
awareness. Hold on to it tightly.

12. There is no end to be achieved. We’re not going

anywhere. We’re not trying to reach anything or create 18. Moha and wisdom are opposite, but in degrees. If there
anything. There is no hurry because there is no destination, is that much wisdom there is this little moha, and if there is
the present moment is already here. that much moha there is this little wisdom.

13. When instructions are read we must also make sure we 19. Understanding is very different from just seeing
understand them in the right way. something or observing something. We need to recognize
when we understand things, and we need to recognize the
understanding that accompanies our observations.
203
20. Every present moment is the effect of a set of past 26. All wholesome states of mind support other wholesome
conditions. states of mind.

21. Be careful really to be mindful and not just mechanically 27. Pīti is a positive mind but it comes with slight agitation.
mindful.

28. When we’re speaking are we peaceful? Are we

22. Whether you are concentrating or not, if there is no aggressive? Be aware of that.
lobha or dosa in the mind, the mind is calm.

23. When we think back, what is it that we feel proud of?

Something that we have learnt, something that has made a
difference in our own life. What is the proudest moment of
your life? What in your life gives you strength? What makes
you feel that it’s been worth it? We need to find these answers
ourselves because we each live our own life.

24. It’s difficult only because we don’t practice being aware

in those situations enough.

29. If there’s awareness it’s good. Knowing what we are

25. Always checks back and forth. If we often know the saying is also meaningful. If we are speaking mindfully and
experience and check how we are reacting to it, it gets to the what we are talking about is related to the Dhamma, we can
point where we are always aware of our reaction when we come away feeling more energized.
know our experience. It becomes natural to know both.
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30. Every good thing in life has its price, we have to work to 36. There is good news: the defilements are at the limit of
earn it. It won’t come instantly, you have to work towards it. their power already whereas the wholesome, the kusala has
room to grow. So if there’s any wisdom that grows it can
challenge the defilement, and then the defilement will have to
31. In vipassanā, never think, ‘how could I observe in order abdicate. The wholesome always wins over the unwholesome
that an insight might arise?’ It will never work. When the —eventually.
mind is simple and clear, with no greed, not trying to get
37. As little as we practice, that’s the little bit of peace we’ll
anything, then understanding can arise.
get. And as much as we practice, that’s as much peace or
32. My teacher always said, beginning to know that you are wisdom as we’ll get. There is hope.
not perfect is getting closer to getting better. But when we
think that we are okay, there is something wrong.
38. In meditation, in the Dhamma, there is no stopping
because it’s like riding a bike uphill. If you don’t step on the
33. For long-term meditators, the biggest enemy to watch pedal, you’ll roll down the hill. If you don’t keep stepping
out for is greed. There’s always something that the mind has forward, you’re just sliding backwards. First you must get to
its sights set on, that it’s waiting to get. It’s our nature. When doing it, you must know how to do it, you go to do it, and you
we set out to do something we think we must get something must be doing it until you gain momentum.
from it.

39. Whatever we see or hear, there is a cause and effect at

34. The power to bring peace to the mind that comes from work, there is a natural understanding. Whatever we hear,
within the mind itself is the most powerful because it’s always see, experience, in the end, the question for ourselves should
available. be, ‘What should I do now with myself?’ We must come back
to ourselves, the practice.
35. Know that you’re seeing before you look; know that
you’re hearing before you listen.

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40. The object and the knowing of it are two sides of the arises. The mind arises. We can recognize that a particular
same coin. We also need to get familiar with the fact that the function of mind is at work. We can recognize that it passes
knowing of it is a separate nature from the object itself. And away. You can’t hold on to a mind and look at it. That’s not
then we get a glimpse into nature of mind, because nature of how we can tell the mind exists.
knowing is nature of mind itself.

42. Check whether the mind is more aware of the concept of

the experience or the reality of the experience.

43. At a subtle level, reality can only be understood, it cannot

be seen. It will be understood and known to be so, but it’s not
like you’re looking at it as we experience all the other objects.
It’s an understanding of the reality of that experience.

44. We have to investigate everything many, many times,

and one of those times when the mind is in the right mood,
when there’s no greed or aversion in the mind, and we’re just
41. There are four ways that we can understand reality. We investigating naturally, one of those times something will be
can understand reality because we see the signs of reality, its understood. But it takes repeated practice.
signs, its characteristics. We can recognize reality by its
function, what it does, how it works. We can understand
reality because of the cause-effect relationship in reality, there 45. Generally at those times when understanding arises, the
is the near cause and the far cause. Lakkhaṇa, rasa, mind is strong, it’s sort of at its best, there’s been continuous
paccupaṭṭhāna, padaṭṭhāna. That’s how you recognize awareness, there is no desire to understand something, there
reality: by its characteristic, its function, its near cause, and its is no aversion towards the experience, there is full interest in
far cause. For example we can recognize mind because it the experience. It comes when you least expect it. And then

206
prior to that experience we’ve probably been watching 50. Nothing we practice will ever go to waste. So practice to
whatever it is over and over again. really understand death. Die if you must! [Laughter] My
teacher used to say, the person will die but the wisdom will
not die.
46. If you just understand that this mind is ephemeral, it will
just come and go away, all you have to do is watch. If you
know what feeds the defilements you just work with the cause 51. Keep the mind open to the possibility that there are other
and it can’t be fed and it can’t grow. things that the mind might be recognizing, that because you
are used to your habitual objects you are not recognizing that
other things are being known by the mind.
47. Minds arise one at the time, but it’s when we have a
succession of millions and millions of minds they have so
much power, that’s when we can’t control it. If we can see it 52. For every moment of awareness there is a layering of the
immediately when it arises, it’s easier to deal with. If we begin minds that work together to be aware of the moment. There is
to understand it, it’s easier to deal with. Fires always start the object that you know and then there is the awareness of
small, but when half the house is burning it’s very hard to put the object, that’s the mind. There is always a feeling in the
out the fire. And then, instead of putting water on the fire, if mind that is aware, and behind that feeling you will also have
we add gasoline to the fire! [Laughter] either some aversion, some attachment, or a neutral feeling.

And then behind this aversion, attachment, or neutral feeling

there is an idea that gives rise to whether your mind is
48. Whatever we know is fun, just know it because it’s
neutral, attached or averse. So there is a layering in the mind
important to know. If we develop this habit of knowing
in every moment, but you can’t see it right away. You need to
whatever comes up and knowing that we’re knowing, it
allow your mind to be open to the possibilities, so that as you
becomes easier to know in daily life.
watch just you might start to realize, ‘Oh, the mind is
49. It’s not so much about whether we want to speak or not, watching this,’ and you might start to realize, ‘Oh, there is
it’s about whether the situation merits that we should speak or some feeling behind it.’ Slowly let it happen.
not. Wisdom must be the guide.

207
53. One of the things that you could know is the awareness What you are feeling at that time colours your feeling towards
itself. When you are aware of the awareness, of the the object. If we look only at the object we’ll never know the
mindfulness itself, the view becomes sort of inverted, because truth about it because it is already coloured by our opinion.
in fact all objects are coming to the mind. They impinge on the
mind and that’s how we become aware of them. Generally we
seem to pay attention to something else, but when you 57. When meditating it’s always good to give yourself some
become aware of the awareness you notice the impinging of all space, not to be in a hurry to achieve, give yourself some
the senses on the awareness, then you feel like everything is breathing room. Think about it a little bit: how should I
coming in to you. practice? How should I approach this?

54. What is it? What is happening? Why is it happening? 58. Knowing is actually the nature of the mind, one of the
How is it happening? Any one of these questions always helps. names of the mind is knowing, aware—the mind cannot not
When the mind asks a question to which it doesn’t yet know know. You don’t need to make an effort to know, the nature of
the answer it always awakens the mind because it wants to the mind is to know. What we’re lacking actually is strength,
know. it’s more a sort of gatheredness, a momentum of being
conscious of the nature of the mind, which is knowing. When
55. If you have liking or disliking for some object, you should
you know that for long enough, then there is a power to it that
not use it as a meditation object. First take care of your liking
you just weren’t conscious of before.
or disliking. If you're neutral, then you can use any object.

59. For the yogi, there’s not a lot of work you need to do
56. We must remember that the state of the mind colours
because you are not trying to achieve anything. You are just
our experience. The experience itself is never real, it is always
trying to do three things. Have right view, be conscious, and
coloured by the colour of the mind. It’s like the members of
sustain it. It’s very simple work.
our own family: sometimes we love someone to death and
sometimes we can’t stand them—the same person!

208
60. This practice is for life. First you need to understand how
to practice the right way, then you can practice the whole life.
No need to hurry.

61. When the mind doesn’t see in the right way, that’s when
it suffers. When the mind doesn’t know what’s right or what’s
wrong, doesn’t know the truth about things, then it just has its
own idea, it thinks this is better or that is better, and then it
clings to what it thinks is nice, and then it suffers because of
what it’s holding onto.

62. All wisdom starts from sutamayā paññā, from

borrowed wisdom. So that is very important, the source of 64. The mind is always carrying out all its functions. All the
that, and the kind of wisdom. The more right information we functions are always working, but your awareness and your
have, the more of the borrowed knowledge is correct, then the wisdom determine how much of that you will recognize. We
more correctly we can use our faculties to further wisdom. just have to keep practicing so that wisdom grows.

63. The whole world is actually only in and at our six sense 65. When we begin to feel that the practice has a value in our
doors, its not out there. We experience everything we think of life, that’s when our faith in the practice grows, and that
as in our world at our six sense doors. We directly experience supports us to keep practicing. Knowing how we benefit from
only the six sense doors. the practice is something that is also part of the wisdom that
must grow in the mind. We have to recognize these things for
ourselves.

209
S ECTION 2 2. Not trying to prevent anything, not trying to not think,
not trying to be still, just being aware of what is happening
Dhamma Reminders in naturally as it is. Are you sure that you are aware? Do you see

Guided Meditation the difference between the awareness and the experience, the
difference between the knowing and that which is being
known?

3. Is the mind aware or just thinking? Can you be aware

that there is thinking of the thoughts? Thinking is the mind,
feeling is the mind, knowing is the mind, having awareness is
the mind. Wanting to move, to shift, is also the mind.

4. What is that mind feeling? Feelings are always there,

there are always some feelings. Pleasant, unpleasant or
neutral. If the feeling is neutral, recognize that the feeling is
neutral, know that the feeling is neutral. It’s not possible not
to have a feeling, it’s not possible not to have an object, there
are always objects, experiences, there are always feelings, the
mind is working all the time.

1. There’s no need to look deeply into the object, just be 5. Without listening you still hear. Knowing sound is called
awake and conscious. hearing. All kinds of hearing are happening, not ‘I am
hearing’. When we don’t know that there is knowing a sound,
and that is hearing, we think ‘I am hearing’.

210
6. You must understand, this principle is the same at all the to be able to continue being aware, to continue meditating. It
other sense doors with all the other sense objects. doesn’t take a lot of effort, just remember, try not to forget.

7. The mind that is aware, the mind that is not aware, you 12. The object is not important, the mind is important, that
need to recognize the differences. How is it different, what is there is awareness in the mind is important, or that the mind
different, how much does it differ? is aware is important.

8. You must always be checking the quality of the mind. Is 13. Meditation is the cultivation of all the good qualities of
the mind awake? Is the mind sleepy? Is the mind dull? Is the mind. Bhāvanā means cultivation. Cultivating, allowing good
mind interested? qualities of mind like awareness, stability of mind, sati,
samādhi to grow, to be cultivated in the mind.
9. Whenever you are knowing, whatever you are
experiencing, don’t judge what you are knowing, appreciate 14. That knowing nature is mind.
the fact that you are knowing something. Understand the
value of awareness itself. In any moment, how much more can
you know? 15. Whatever you know, you will call it the object. Or
whatever you know will be called the object, it’s called the
object. So many things to know.
10. Don’t stop meditating, the posture will change, your
actions will change, your environment will change, don't
change the state of awareness, of being aware of yourself. 16. The mind has no shape, it has no colour, it has no size, it
has no place. But you can know that the mind is working, that
minds are happening, that the mind is functioning.
11. The retreat center and outside the retreat center are all
the same. Allow the environment to change, don't change the
mind being aware. No matter where you are, what you do, try

211
17. Knowing is mind. Paying attention is the mind. Thinking 20. Are the facial muscles relaxed?
is the mind. Feeling is the mind. Wanting to know, wanting to
do, wanting is the mind.
21. Just checking.

18. If you are dull, sleepy, not that clear, you can open your
eyes and continue being aware. 22. You can move if you need to, if you wish to move you can
move, you can change your posture. Be comfortable, all it
needs is to remain aware of what you are doing, whatever you
19. Does it feel relaxed in your heart? Does it feel at ease and do.
comfortable in the heart?

23. You need to recognize that you are aware. When you
know there is awareness, when you recognize there is
awareness, the mind feels safe, peaceful, it’s meaningful.

24. We are not born with awareness and recognition of

awareness.

25. In awareness, the noble eightfold path is working.

26. While we are aware, knowing that the object is the object,
this is nature, not a person, understanding that, there is
right view.

212
27. While there is awareness and we are not thinking 33. To say we have progressed in meditation means that the
unwholesome thoughts about anyone, we are not speaking sati, awareness, the samādhi, stability of mind, and the paññā,
unwholesome words, we are not committing any understanding, are growing.
unwholesome actions, then sammā silā of the noble eightfold
path, right speech, right action and right livelihood are being
practiced. 34. When the forces of dhamma are strong then the opposite
forces or defilements cannot be so strong.

28. T h e r e i s r i g h t e f f o r t , r i g h t a w a r e n e s s , r i g h t
concentration, so the samādhi portion of the noble eightfold 35. Because the mind arises to pass away, there has to be
path is also being practiced. constant effort to continue being aware, to continue
practicing.

29. When we have silā, samādhi and paññā, we are

practicing the noble eightfold path. 36. And although the mind arises to pass away, the qualities
in the mind leave a legacy for the succeeding minds. So when
you cultivate good qualities the legacy is left to the future
30. So we need to learn how to appreciate awareness and all minds and continuous practice makes the subsequent minds
the work it does. stronger and stronger, better and better. That is call fulfilling
our pāramī or our perfections.

31. And the practice of awareness can be taken everywhere,

we can be aware anywhere so long as we have practiced, made 37. Every moment of knowing is a removal of small
ourselves skillful in it, it can be used. moments of not knowing, of delusion.

32. When there is no desire there is completeness. 38. Knowing what is happening as it is, knowing the truth as
it is, is removing the delusion or wrong view.
213
39. Knowing what’s real and assuming things are opposites. 45. Attitudes, feelings, body sensations, if you can know all
Knowing what is real is the opposite of assuming. of them at the same time, it’s better. Attitudes, feelings, and
all the other objects.

40. As we practice more and more the mind must gain

strength. Why does it seem like the mind sometimes gets 46. Are you sure that you are aware?
weaker?

47. While sitting, can you recognize intentions in the mind?

41. Double check what work the mind is doing. What is it up
to?
48. Why do we breathe?

42. We have to constantly practice in all and different

environments, the mind tends to be affected by its 49. All experiences are new. Every phenomenon is new,
surroundings, and we need to understand how the mind is there is nothing that we experience again, everything that we
affected and influenced to understand it better. are experiencing now is new.

43. The awareness needs to be a wholesome awareness. 50. Are you indulging in the moment or are you being aware
of it?

44. Don’t control the experience or the objects, don’t try to

change the experience or the objects, check the state of your 51. Be awake and alert in the present moment.
mind often.

214
52. Make sure the awareness is clear, make sure you are
aware.

53. The most important thing to know is the awareness. You

are being aware. How are you being aware? Are you interested
in what you are being aware of? Are you interested in being
aware?

54. While you are being aware, can you recognize the
wisdom that is there? Is there anything more that you are
beginning to understand?

55. Right effort means never giving up. Perseverance,

persistence.

56. Wherever you go, whatever you do, whatever time it

might be, don’t lose the awareness.

215
Akusala

kammically unwholesome, unskillful

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Kusala

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Chapter 2 - Concepts and Reality!
Ānāpāna(sati)

(awareness of) breathing

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Chapter 2 - Concepts and Reality!

Anatta

a) not-self, non-ego, impersonality, there is no abiding substance (or an ego, a self, or a

soul), there is no self- existing entity

b) nothing can arise on its own or from a single cause and nothing can exist or move on
its own

c) one of the three universal characteristics of existence (see dukkha and anicca),
understanding anatta is a liberating insight (paññā)

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Anicca, Dukkha

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Chapter 2 - Mind Process!

Anicca

a) impermanence, all conditioned phenomena are impermanent, everything that

comes into existence changes and passes away

b) one of the three universal characteristics of existence (see dukkha and anatta),
understanding anicca is a liberating insight (paññā)

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Anatta, Dukkha

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Chapter 2 - Personal Effort/ Right Effort/ Effortless!

Anusaya

potential or latent defilements

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Chapter 2 - Magga ñāṇa!

Ārammana

object

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Chapter 2 - Drowsiness/ Dream like states!

Avijjā

synonym for moha

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Moha

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Chapter 2 - Delusion!
Ayoniso manasikāra

a) wrong attitude, wrong frame of mind, wrong attention

b) unwise consideration

(opposite of yoniso manasikāra)

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Yoniso manasikāra

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Bhava-taṇhā

craving for existence

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Bhāvanā

mental development, meditation

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Bhāvanāmayā pāññā

wisdom or knowledge acquired through direct experience, through mental

development

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Cintāmayā paññā, Sutamayā paññā

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Bhikkhu

fully ordained monk, member of the Saṅgha

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Brahmavihāra

divine states of mind; a name collectively given to mettā, karuṇā, muditā, and
upekkhā.

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Karuṇā, Mettā, Muditā, Upekkhā

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Chapter 2 - Mettā/ Karunā!

Byāpāda

Ill will, malevolence

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Thīna-middha, Udhacca, Vicikicchā

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Chapter 2 - Watching Defilements!

Cetanā

intention

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Chapter 2 - Intention!
Cetasika

mental factor (This refers to the 52 mental factors listed in the abhidhamma. Some are
kammically neutral, some kammically wholesome and some kammically
unwholesome.)

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Chapter 2 - Awareness and No Awareness

Cintāmayā paññā

wisdom or knowledge acquired by thinking and reasoning, by intellectual analysis

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Bhāvanāmayā pāññā, Sutamayā paññā

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Citta

mind

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Chapter 2 - Nibbāna!
Cittānupassanā

contemplation of the mind

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Dhammānupassanā, Kāyanupassanā, Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta, Vedanānupassanā

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Chapter 2 - Satipaṭṭhāna!
Deva

deity, divine being

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Chapter 2 - Fear/ Projection of mind!

Dhamma-vicaya

investigation of phenomena, investigation of dhamma view, belief, speculative opinion

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Dhamma/dhamma

Dhamma - Teachings of the Buddha

dhamma - conditioned object

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Chapter 2 - Objects!
Dhammānupassanā

contemplation of dhamma

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Cittānupassanā, Kāyanupassanā, Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta, Vedanānupassanā

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Chapter 2 - Satipaṭṭhāna!
Diṭṭhi

micchā-diṭṭhi (wrong view) / sammā-diṭṭhi (right view)

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Micchā-diṭṭhi

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Chapter 2 - Every moment is new!

Dosa

hatred, anger, any kind of aversion or disliking (including sadness, fear, resistance,
etc.)

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Chapter 2 - Formal practice/ Retreat/ Daily Life!

Dukkha

a) unsatisfactoriness, pain, suffering

b) the suffering in change

c) the unsatisfactory nature of all existence, of all conditioned phenomena

d) one of the three universal characteristics of existence (see anicca and anatta),
understanding dukkha is a liberating insight (paññā)

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Sukha

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Chapter 2 - Nibbāna!
Dukkha-dukkha

unsatisfactoriness, pain, suffering

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Indriya

the five spiritual faculties: sati, samādhi, viriya, saddhā, and paññā

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Paññā, Saddhā, Samādhi, Sati, Viriya

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Jhāna

meditative absorption

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Chapter 2 - Jhāna!
Kamma

volitional action (of body, speech, and mind)

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Chapter 2 - Kamma!
Karuṇā

compassion

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Brahmavihāra, Mettā, Muditā, Upekkhā

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Chapter 2 - Patience/ Persistence !

Kāyanupassanā

contemplation of body

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Cittānupassanā, Dhammānupassanā, Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta, Vedanānupassanā

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Khandha

five aggregates or categories: rūpa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, viññāṇa

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Khanti

patience; forbearance

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Chapter 2 - Patience/ Persistence !

Kilesa

defilements, unwholesome qualities of the mind, any manifestation of greed, anger,

and delusion (see lobha, dosa, and moha)

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Kusala

kammically wholesome, skillful

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Akusala

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Chapter 1 - Meditation!
Lakkhaṇa

characteristic; a quality

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Chapter 2 - Personal Effort/ Right Effort/ Effortless!

Lobha

greed, any kind of craving or liking (synonym for taṇhā) path

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Taṇhā

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Magga ñāṇa

path knowledge (leading to Enlightenment)

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Chapter 2 - Concepts and Reality!

Magga-phala

literally “path and fruit”; synonym for Enlightenment

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Sotāpanna

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Chapter 2 - Nibbāna!
Magga-phala citta

Path- fruition minds

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Chapter 2 - Nibbāna!
Māna

pride; conceit.

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Mettā

loving-kindness, selfless love, unconditional love

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Brahmavihāra, Karuṇā, Muditā, Upekkhā

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Chapter 2 - Awareness + wisdom, Investigation, asking questions, interest!

Mettā bhāvanā

cultivation of loving kindness

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Micchā-diṭṭhi

wrong view

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Diṭṭhi

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Moha

delusion, ignorance, not understanding, not seeing reality (synonym for avijjā)

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Avijjā

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Muditā

altruistic or sympathetic joy

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Brahmavihāra, Karuṇā, Mettā, Upekkhā

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Chapter 2 - Society, Family !

Nāma

mental processes, mind (collective term for vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa )

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Chapter 2 - Intention!
Nāma-rūpa

mental and physical processes

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Chapter 2 - Nāma-rūpa!
Ñāṇa

synonym for paññā

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Paññā

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Chapter 2 - Nibbāna!
Nibbāna

free from craving; emancipation; the final bliss

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Chapter 2 - Nibbāna!
Nīvaraṇa

obstacle or hindrance (to the progress of mind)

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Thīna-middha, Udhacca, Vicikicchā

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Chapter 2 - Delusion!
Paccupaṭṭhāna

manifestation

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Chapter 3 - Dhamma Inspiration

Padaṭṭhāna

proximate cause

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Chapter 3 - Dhamma Inspiration

Pāli

name of the language in which the Buddhist scriptures (Pāli Canon) were first recorded

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NAMO TASSA BHAGAVATO ARAHATO
SAMMĀ SAMBUDDHASSA !!Homage to Him, the Blessed One, the Worthy One,
the Perfectly Self-E
Paññā

wisdom, understanding, knowledge, insight (synonym for ñāṇa)

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Indriya, Ñāṇa, Saddhā, Samādhi, Sati, Viriya

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Paññatti

relative (conceptual) reality, concepts

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Papañca

taṇhā (craving), diṭṭhi (wrong view) and māna (conceit)

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Chapter 2 - Awareness + wisdom, Investigation, asking questions, interest!

Paramattha

ultimate reality

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Pāramī

perfections, potential “talents”: Perfection in giving, morality, renunciation, wisdom,

energy, patience, truthfulness, resolution, loving-kindness, and equanimity

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Chapter 2 - Formal practice/ Retreat/ Daily Life!

Pīti

joyful interest, enthusiasm, rapture

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Chapter 3 - Dhamma Inspiration

Rasa

function

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Chapter 3 - Dhamma Inspiration

Rūpa

physical processes, corporeality

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Chapter 2 - Awareness + wisdom, Investigation, asking questions, interest!

Sabhāva-lakkhaṇa

natural and distinct characteristic

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Sāmañña-lakkhaṇa

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Chapter 2 - Specific Characteristics!

Saddhā

faith, confidence, trust

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Indriya, Paññā, Samādhi, Sati, Viriya

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Samādhi

calmness, stillness or stability of mind

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Indriya, Paññā, Saddhā, Sammā-samādhi, Sati, Viriya

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Sāmañña-lakkhaṇa

general charactersitic

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Sabhāva-lakkhaṇa

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Chapter 2 - Specific Characteristics!

Samatha

tranquility meditation, concentration meditation

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Chapter 2 - Concepts and Reality!

Sammā sati

Right Awareness

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Chapter 2 - Awareness and No Awareness

Sammā-samādhi

Right Samādhi

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Samādhi

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Chapter 2 - Jhāna!
Sampajjañña

clear comprehension

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Saṃsāra

cycle of suffering, round of rebirths

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Chapter 2 - Death!
Saṃvega

spiritual urgency

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Chapter 2 - Formal practice/ Retreat/ Daily Life!

Saṅkhāra

mental formations

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Saññā

recognition, memory, perception

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Chapter 2 - Awareness and No Awareness

Sati

mindfulness or awareness

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Indriya, Paññā, Saddhā, Samādhi, Viriya

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

the four foundations of mindfulness, see kāyanupassanā, vedanānupassanā

cittānupassanā, and dhammānupassanā

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Cittānupassanā, Dhammānupassanā, Kāyanupassanā, Vedanānupassanā

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Sīla

morality, ethical conduct, virtue

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Chapter 2 - Society, Family !

Sotāpanna

First stage of enlightenment

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Magga-phala

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Chapter 2 - ‘I’!
Sukha

happiness

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Dukkha

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Chapter 2 - Awareness + wisdom, Investigation, asking questions, interest!

Sutamayā paññā

wisdom or knowledge acquired through reading or hearing

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Bhāvanāmayā pāññā, Cintāmayā paññā

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Chapter 3 - Dhamma Inspiration

Sutta

discourse of the Buddha

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Chapter 2 - Delusion!
Taṇhā

synonym for lobha (craving)

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Lobha, Thīna-middha, Udhacca, Vicikicchā

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Thīna-middha

sloth and torpor

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Byāpāda, Nīvaraṇa, Taṇhā, Udhacca, Vicikicchā

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Chapter 2 - Watching Defilements!

Udhacca

restlessness

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Byāpāda, Nīvaraṇa, Taṇhā, Thīna-middha, Vicikicchā

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Chapter 2 - Watching Defilements!

Upekkhā

a) neutral feelings and sensations (vedanā)

b) equanimity, a wholesome mental state (saṅkhāra, cetasika)

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Brahmavihāra, Karuṇā, Mettā, Muditā

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Chapter 2 - Society, Family !

Vedanā

(pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral) feelings or sensations

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Chapter 2 - Observing the Observing Mind/ The Knower!

Vedanānupassanā

contemplation of feeling

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Cittānupassanā, Dhammānupassanā, Kāyanupassanā, Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

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Vicikicchā

doubt

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Byāpāda, Nīvaraṇa, Taṇhā, Thīna-middha, Udhacca

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Chapter 2 - Watching Defilements!

Viññāṇa

consciousness, cognition, the knowing mind

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Vipāka

resultant

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Vipassanā

insight, insight meditation

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Chapter 2 - Concepts and Reality!

Vipassanā ñāṇa

insight knowledge

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Chapter 2 - Magga ñāṇa!

Viriya

effort, energy, “wisdom” energy, “remindfulness”

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Indriya, Paññā, Saddhā, Samādhi, Sati

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Chapter 1 - Meditation
Yoniso manasikāra

a) right attitude, right frame of mind, right attention

b) wise consideration

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Ayoniso manasikāra

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Chapter 1 - Meditation