Fresh from the release of his 11th studio album “INSANO”, Kid Cudi invites Zane Lowe into his home to discuss the project, his retirement from music, relationship with Ye, and more. Speaking on “INSANO” Cudi tells Zane, "I think that this album is a triumph, because I've seen a lot of people saying, yo, you sound like you can feel the happiness in the music. You can feel the joy radiating. Every note, every verse. There's no Kid Cudi album that sounds like this. Can you imagine? 11 albums, and I was able to still do something new.”
As he nears his 40th birthday, this wide-ranging conversation sees Cudi reflect on his career, how he’s inspired the next generation of rappers, why he loves working with Lil Yachty, and much, much more.
Kid Cudi on his previously announced but short-lived retirement and coming back to music…
[When I said that] I was kind of out of it. I was just in this place where I was thinking about my future and it didn't seem like, I don't know, it just doesn't seem like there was really an appetite for my music in the ways that there used to be. Finally got through that whole retirement thing because I talked to my friend Brian, the world knows him as Kaws, but he was like, "Hey, man, I don't mean to get in your business, but I think you should rethink this retirement thing. I think you could be around for a long time." And to see Brian kind of come to me real like that, and he's never approached me about my music or what I should do with my music ever before, so it hit me in a different way as if it was like it could have been Dot or Chip or Dennis. It was different. And literally after that message, I was like, "Shit, man. He's right. I'm just getting warm. I'm just getting warm." I mean, 15 years is a long time to be doing anything, but it's just the beginning
On how seeing Kendrick Lamar perform shaped ‘INSANO'…
I was still in this place trying to figure out what that album would sound like. And I was in Paris, I just finished my European Runner tour, and I go to see Kendrick. And this motherfucker, it blew my mind. I'm sitting there, I'm watching the crowd reaction from the beginning of the show to the end of the show. People were in it, party mode, singing every fucking word. Not saying this doesn't happen at my shows, because it does. But all the way through, I don't have that experience. You know what I mean? And it's like I had this moment where I was like, "You know what? This is the reaction I want. I want people to feel good and it to be a joyous occasion when I'm performing." So I took that, the inspiration from Kendrick's show, and Kendrick has always been my top three artists in the world.
I'm actually so proud of the record that we have. We got one record, Solo Dolo, Part II. You know what I mean? So proud of it. So I took that inspiration, got to the studio and said, "Let's fucking get to work. We need to make something with some energy. I'm happy. I'm in a better place in my life. I'm never made an album in this type of mode before. Let's see what comes out of that." So the album was truly designed for arenas for the live show.
On relationship with Ye and working with him…
It's usually one person does something where the other one has to defend themselves, but usually you like to keep these things private, but sometimes they can come out. I think in my situation it's a little bit more complicated. Me personally, I just pray on it and walking the light and the new Scott is not angry at anyone. The new Scott doesn't have beef with anyone, and I just try to focus on that. Any past thing I ever had, sometimes it's been I might fall out with somebody and never talk to them ever again, and then sometimes I fall out with somebody and might not talk for a couple years and then we reconnect and it's squashed and it's all good. So it depends. It's like friendships, really it's beyond friendship, is about when it's brotherly, sisterly shit, family shit. It's just a little bit more complicated.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely and siblings hurt you the most. So you go through things, but family is always there. You don't give up on family. And I think in the thick of it, when it was going down, I wanted to walk away. I wanted to give up, but in thinking about it the past couple years, it's like this is someone who is my brother ultimately who came into my life and championed me and did things for me that nobody else did for me early on in my career. People don't even know that Kanye paid for the first day and night video when I didn't have a deal. This was like, he needs a video, so I'm a pay for it. Guy saw me to shoot it, saw me the first director. Didn't know me, but was sure just doing a favor and so shit like that.
I had this moment to think about the past and the journey that I've had with this person and I know that in his soul there is a good man there because I've seen it and you don't give up on people. He's learning and he's growing. He knows he made some mistakes and I think that that's the beauty of it, is this is a beautiful thing. It's like he knows he's been on one hell of a ride and he knows, he's said some things that he might not be able to come back from in a lot of realms, in a lot of spaces from certain people. But we grow and I think I pray for him, and that's my brother. And the reason why we became cool again is because he apologised to me and it was sincere. I was just like, wow. Kanye does not apologise to anybody and say sorry to anyone. And that's my brother, man. I know he loves me and there's just nothing like Kanye and Cudi. We like the duo that everybody loves to see.
Kid Cudi on wanting to make the best music possible and competing...
I feel like all these years I've kind of been exploring as an artist, and I've been on a quest, a quest to acquire my powers to be able to compete one day, and that was one of the goals I had going into this. It's like, no, I'm not going to just make my just offbeat different shit and just be in my own lane. No, I'm just trying to compete. I want to have the best album of the year. You know what I mean? I want people to arguably have the debate about my shit being one of the best albums of the year. I didn't want to have any doubts. I wanted to make something that was completely undeniable.
On reaching the milestone of nearly turning 40 years old…
I feel great. It's like most people my age are afraid to tell their age. But I have found from experience that time gives me wisdom, and growth, and maturity. And when I think about my twenties, I would not want to live that over again. I would never want to go through that. And based on my experience, the older I've gotten, the better my life has. I just feel really good about being where I'm at. Being 40, I didn't even know I would get here. I feel really blessed, man. It's kind of crazy to know that I went through that hell. I didn't see any way out of it at that time. I didn't think…
It was hard for me to imagine anything good in my life happening outside of the music. I was just a tortured, a tortured spirit and people were feeding off of my pain. And I wasn't enjoying it really. I was very tortured. And I don't think I was able to rise to the occasion of being a role model, a hero to these kids.
And when I started off, I had very honest ambitions. I just wanted to help people, just wanted to put something out that people groove to, smoke to. But things kind of got out of hand and got a little crazy. But it's, to be in 2024 right now, all these years later, all the things I've accomplished, standing here talking to you, this wonderful house. You know what I mean? I worked really hard for this shit. You know what's crazy, man? I want to buy a crib in Cleveland somewhere and just have a spot in the cut.
On working at the BAPE Store in New York back in 2008 and memorable people coming through…
Man, Kurt Franklin came through one time and I helped him out with some clothes. Kurt Franklin, you remember me, man? Kurt Frank is the freshest dude, man. He's so fresh. So when he came in, I was like, yo, Kurt Frank's in the BAPE store shopping. He was buying mad shit. I was running down getting him new shoes. He was like, "Yo, what you think about this with this?" I was like, "Oh yeah, man, this is dope." You could wear this with this. This is dope fit right here. I was hooking them up, setting them up with fits, all sorts of shit. But I also had this phobia that rappers would come into the store and see me working there and then have beef with me later and bring up the fact like, “N****, you sold me clothes." So I would always hide in the stockroom.
Lupe Fiasco came to the store one day. He was in the store, I was in the back and they was like, "Yo, Lupe's here." I was like, "Oh, shit." Stayed down the stairs. Waited till he left. And I was like, yo, what you down here for? I explained it to my dude, same way I explained it to you. I was like, yo, bro, if I get famous one day, I don't ever want this nigger saying, yo, you sold me clothes, you my son. You know what I'm saying? We can't have that. This was my explanation, and yo, bro, when you think about it, he hates me to this day. He hates me. So it's like I was right. I was on to something. I sensed something in the universe. So this is my plan at that time. I was totally hyper aware that something was going to happen for me and I was just like, fuck this. I can't have nobody making no this record. Yeah, you rang me up motherfucker. You know what I'm saying?
On working with Lil Yachty…
There's new people that I'm working with like Yachty, of course, who I've learned that we have crazy chemistry on record as well. You know what I mean? And we're actually, there's something going on with me and Yachty...like just more music between me and him. We're trying to figure something out. Every so often I'll work with somebody and be like, oh my God, he's like me. He has powers. Yachty got powers. And when we were sitting there, we must've banged out three, four songs. So there's a little bit more of Yachty on the deluxe and he sounds amazing.
His range is crazy. It reminds me what I hoped for the next generation. It reminds me of the type of shit I was on when I was younger and just trying to explore and just be different and not have people knowing my next move.
On making a song with XXXTentacion ...
Well, it was really like one of these things where I've heard it's this version of a song that X had did on one of my songs on Speedin' Bullet 2 Heaven, and I tweeted out, " Is this real?" And I ended up connecting with John Cunningham, who worked very closely with X, and he met up with me. He came to the studio. We talked a little bit. He played me the joint. It's amazing. At some point we have to give it out. I want them to have it. I don't even want it. I just want to make sure that they have what they need. I'll clear it, whatever they got to do. But I didn't want to ask them for a verse. I think that's weird. So I was like, "Man, maybe there's something that he's done that I could probably flip." And I couldn't really find that except for Orlando because it had no drums. And it was hitting me out of all the songs that I heard, just like I was like, if this is not calling me to the Cudi vibes, this is just speaking to me. And I hit up John, I got the pieces to the session, got the vocals, and we were like, "Yo, just produce it up and make it brand new." I was like, "Man, this is a gift. It was there. It was ready to be manipulated. It had no drums. It was really bare. It was there." So I took that as a sign from the Heavens and went to the studio and just conjured up something and pieced together parts. And I loved his cadence and his melodies on the verse. So I thought it would be cool for fans to see me be inspired by him and do his vibe. And be in his space for a little bit. And then I wanted to just have the second half be like, this is the uplifting part. This is where we're at right now. The light, the love. We came from the darkness... Because X is just a reflection from my younger days to me. I see a young man that's hurting. I was hurting. And this song, I felt his pain. Even though it's a verse that's been out before, I saw some people complaining about that, whatever. But it was like a remix. My way of just showing love and giving people an idea of what an X and Cudi feature would sound like.
