Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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Topgun

Topic banned from making any edit related to wars between India and Pakistan, expiring 12:00, 20 March 2015 (UTC). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:47, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Topgun

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: OccultZone (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 12:34, 11 December 2014‎ (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: TopGun (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBIPA#Discretionary sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

20:52, 2 November 2014 Violation of WP:PRIMARY, since the newspaper has only represented the view of Pakistani military commander.
21:01, 2 November 2014 Use of an image as a source that is hosted on an unreliable self-published source.
13:43, 9 November 2014 Same use of a WP:PRIMARY and a dubious source like above two diffs on a different page.
14:28, 1 December 2014‎ Apart from the violation above, this time he has misrepresented the source, when he also changed "Pakistani source" to "Neutral source", even after knowing that it doesn't,[1] per [2]
06:39, 11 December 2014 Reverted to preferred version, without following consensus on the talk and RSN. This edit also violated WP:NOTADVOCATE since much of its part, starting from "He ordered his staff officer ...." to "...Chawinda till the guns fell silent", is a view of a military men.(WP:PRIMARY)
09:09, 11 December 2014‎ Misrepresentation of source, linked URL is nowhere stating any results about the battle between two nations, and the highlighted text is talking about a cavalry regiment named, "25th Cavalry".[3]

Edit warring

07:35, 3 December 2014
09:05, 3 December 2014 (Misuse of Twinkle rollback).
12:18, 3 December 2014

3 reverts in 5 hours, but no comments were made on the article' talk.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Blocked 9 times,[4] mostly for disruptive editing and edit warring.
WP:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive141#TopGun, reads: "Further edit warring or other types of inappropriate behavior will lead to sanctions."

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

[5] [6]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Apparent WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT attitude and usual habit of changing battle results without gaining consensus. I don't see how there was any need to revert any of my changes if he had only read the note that I left on article' talk every time. Accuses of "following" him if you have reverted his edit,[7] and also accuses of "canvassing", if you have asked another editor(who edits similar pages),[8], or a relevant noticeboard.[9]

Not to mention that how many times he has tried to misrepresent other editors. As usual, he keeps claiming that I haven't "even verified the source that atleast two editors have",[10] Although he cannot name them, or provide the diffs where they have confirmed this dubious image [11]. It has no mention outside this wikipedia page. As per WP:CONSENSUS, he had no consensus for any of these edits, yet he continues to edit war over them, despite everyone else(except Nawabmalhi),[12],[13], [14], [15] told him not to use a self published and unverified picture. However he still hasn't presented any mention of this report outside wikipedia article. That means even if many other editors would tell him the same, he will still continue to use a dubious image as reference and tell others to follow WP:SOURCEACCESS, which is certainly impossible for dubious references. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 15:14, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Callanecc: According to my experience, whenever I would find that my edit has been reverted or I have reverted others edit, I would hope for a discussion in place of going for another revert. Maybe that's why I haven't reverted the recent edits of TopGun. With this case, things were very different. Since this case, I also think that I understand "consensus" better than I used to. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 14:13, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Cailil: I agree that I have made these mistakes, I could have done better. Until today I was unaware that I should have made neutral notification to other user, as well as more neutral AE case. I apologize for that. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 14:13, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Today I received a message on my talk from concerning Topgun's accusations of edit warring. I told the editor to address specific concerns on here; if they are addressable. I have recently checked, the article is 2014 Peshawar school attack, I couldn't find any evidence of edit warring by Rsrikanth05, who had been warned by TopGun, not to edit war. I should also mention that the article is not related to India or Bangladesh, it is only related to Pakistan under WP:ARBIPA. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 10:14, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [16]

Discussion concerning TopGun

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by TopGun

Sigh, this is a content dispute and many editors have said that the source is okay, I'm not even the editor who originally added the sources, Nawabmalhi did when he saw a sock vandalizing content against the sources and I asked him about verification before adding them where he responded positively. OZ on the other hand hasn't even verified the source that atleast two editors have and turns to use a scanned copy of the newspaper provided by Nawabmalhi that I showed him as a courtesy, against me. Full details of the source are present and OZ hasn't even verified the source himself before filing this ridiculous report. Please consider WP:BOOMERANG for this hasty report to try get a content dispute bent to his favour. Please also note I filed this SPI where a concluded sock was vandalizing the article against sources. Now OZ comes along and starts restoring the sock version. After not getting consensus at RSN, and after a user points out that even the source he's giving states the opposite of what he's' saying, he brings the dispute here instead of DRN to have me out of the way so that he can edit and push his POV as much as he likes. Please also note that I have warned OZ for blatant canvassing of another Indian user (who had never edited the article before) who also told him to be neutral at his talkpage and he has been repeatedly going only to WP:INDIA to call in Indian editors that he thinks would support his POV instead of also notifying WP:PAK or choosing a formal noticeboard. OZ first called him to revert [17] where he had a dispute and then went to revert me the article where the editor he canvassed had a dispute with me [18].. how is that not canvassing? He has also fueled other disputes that had recently been stablized at Kargil war, Operation Dwarka, List of Pakistani wars etc, all of which I avoided reporting to an admin and articles that he never edited before, yet he seeks sanctions to work his way through when he does not get enough editor support. Kindly also note that the links OZ is presenting about old sanctions / blocks were with an abusive sockpuppet Darkness Shines and have been reverted. I find it quite telling that OZ is bringing those up knowingly. He also does not recognize that "no consensus" defaults to status quo and tries to revert again to his favoured version. I've already had enough of such editors lately, now he's appearing up at articles that I edit and he's never edited. I also find it utterly deceiving on OZ's behalf that he calls this a misuse of twinkle rollback in his statement while it was just that I forgot to give an edit summary and made my correction in the very next edit and in the next few seconds by making a null edit [19]. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:12, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Would some one also revoke talkpage and email access of Darkness Shines (an indeffed sock puppet who had hounded me for two years) who is sending OZ emails [20] and I do not find the possibility of canvassing OZ to make edits on his behalf unlikely. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:47, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cailil, I added the source you quoted calling my edit disruptive just today to support the victory part and I quoted it in the edit summary. The infobox title was already sourced by Canberra times and The Australian, would you consider retracting that remark? --lTopGunl (talk) 15:07, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Kindly see the diff [21].. he pinged him and told him to check his email. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:07, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The source talks clearly of Indian defeat (25th cav in source was the unit at Pakistani side as per the source) and an editor from RSN said "The second, on pp.35-6, says that the Pakistani's defeated the Indians at Chawinda (& v.v. at Asal Uttar)" on the talkpage, I decided to add it to the article as well. My intent was anything but to spam. And like all other claims of OZ, this too isn't solely based on my opinion.. that doesn't make it disruptive.. just content related. Sorry but I do not think DS's actions ever come out in the wash. I got blocked and Ibanned due to his baiting as seen in the linked discussion; they never did get washed out and I find it quite disruptive that he still continues from within his block. The fact that he removed a large chunk of content while pinging shows that he wanted to hide the ping so that it would look he only blanked and is clearly watching this discussion [22]. IMO, that's proof enough why he would email OZ and as if forwarding an email to you preserves any proof of originality. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:16, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To add to the contention, OZ is moving the goal posts by making the scanned copy of the image (which is not even required for the article) to be the center of the reference while it is not as per WP:SOURCEACCESS and keeps on changing my argument and refutes something that is not my argument rather a courtesy add on. --lTopGunl (talk) 08:41, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Callanecc, My comment was solely to show blatant canvassing and esp to show the divisiveness.. since when does making a comment to show divisiveness by another editor (with diff and not just blank argument) makes me guilty of the same. I don't mind editing with editors from any country and I've done so since years. With all my actions backed up by actions of other editors I think bans and actions on this report would be exactly what OZ wants and is not the way to resolve a content dispute (and that too just for a singular instance of perceived issues?). I don't find it fair to be blamed of source misrepresentation when in each case I first consulted other editors. --lTopGunl (talk) 11:28, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If I had to wrongly imply anything, I'd not have mentioned myself that Strike Eagle "also told him to be neutral at his talkpage". I've been fully transparent. I find it will hardly be constructive to simply ban me from the major topic area that I edit.. you might as well go for a site ban then given the lack of WP:AGF here on the fact that for each reference I discussed I consulted another editor (I've quoted their statements or discussion links here). The reverts on 3rd December were 3 edits in total and other editors reverted to status quo as well reinforcing the consensus to keep that version... I wont say stayed within a legitimate number of edits as I do understand it was still an editwar but I had no intention of reverting further or continuing an editwar and they are stale so any bans or blocks would be punitive. If that decision on sources was solely my action, I would not have defended my stance this way. For DS, I don't see any public arbcom appeal. --lTopGunl (talk) 13:00, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you guys would have been familiar with the topic area, I've had enough editors having this WP:BATTLE mentality hounding and following and it doesn't make me divisive to raise the possibility of that reoccurring. My arbcom warning and blocks are rescinded so I see a pretty harsh attitude here for discussing bans and warnings on a malformed report effectively for the first time. OZ had not edited these three articles and started appearing one by one to revert me [23] [24] [25].. I still didn't report him... how much more good faith can one assume than requesting only on his talkpage to stop. While I appreciate OZ recognizing his mistake, his response to me was quite different [26]. I suggest that the admins leave the content dispute to the editors as there are multiple content venues to decide what a source says and is not a behavioural matter when two three editors quote it and take it differently. If I am wrong, I'm happy to accept it as a content matter but I will not accept the blame of misrepresenting which lacks WP:AGF and was not my intent. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:08, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the sock puppet to whose version OZ was restoring was also tagteaming with DS [27] [28] back in 2013 and recently socking at this article and was finally caught. I can't speak for OZ's knowledge of that but I do think the sockmaster Nuclearram (with yet a current pending SPI) may have been in contact with DS. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:08, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Kudos to you guys for killing the messenger, that I raised the way canvassing was being done and for only using sources in consultation with other editors :s --lTopGunl (talk) 15:45, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
EdJohnston, Two editors who were hounding me on Operation Chengiz Khan were both socks... so way to go for bringing that up (as I already did).. that warning was reverted by an AN discussion linked above for that reason (so no, there's no final warning or any warning on me before this). I don't see how a ban from afghanistan is related here, and how a ban from Pakistan only topics is going to help in this... although you've taken it upon yourselves to ban me for a content dispute, why is a topic ban on all topics being proposed here that hardly relate to the military topics? Also since I am a major contributor to the topic area, a blanket ban from all three topics (esp. Pak) instead of from the specific article or something would be pretty disruptive. --lTopGunl (talk) 05:58, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Are you going to explain any of your actions or will you be forcing me to go for an AN appeal as soon as you place this ridiculous ban? This also seems to be borderline canvassing [29] to get OZ to oppose me in even a non controversial matter where an editor was reverting editors randomly and warned by me with diffs of his three reverts... OZ is pointing him to give input against me here in return. --lTopGunl (talk) 08:37, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

EdJohnston, I didn't invoke the DS related discussions except for two things, 1) the fact that OZ knowingly brought up warning / blocks that were reverted and I had to link those discussions when those warnings and edits against not just one sockpuppet were being discussed (WP:NOTTHEM isn't for sock puppets of blocked editors or block evaders, it's when two valid editors are interacting and I think community has already given their input on that matter and there's no need to re evaluate it unilaterally and subject me to answer for things that community has already stood up for). I wasn't claiming impunity on anything post DS, 2) I had to mention DS emailing OZ... both of them were met with reasonable uninvolved input. I don't think I've mislead anyone in anyway but I do think it is only fair that I respond to allegations that are being placed on me without fully understanding both sides of the story. Also, if you see the RFC at the Battle of Chawinda, there's just as much support for my edit as is for OZ. It's going to be a really bad precedent to ban editors on basis of disagreement. It is clear cut WP:WIN logic to ban editors even if they are wrong in content. Editors are often wrong in content disputes, this has nothing to do with behaviour. You can however ban me because I strongly object here on comments that I disagree with... apparently that's what's leading to most of the fuss here. --lTopGunl (talk) 20:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

An RFC has been started at the talkpage of Battle of Chawinda where I have demonstrated and am further getting support for the consensus on a version that I edited or a similar one that says "Indian defeat" esp. on the one where I added a new reference to back up the claim of victory and an admin below called it misrepresentation.. so I guess your point of misrepresentation is unfounded. This is a content matter by any definition and admins have no authority over it. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:09, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hopefully the admins won't be too naive to see the pattern around this topic area and my reasons for the way I phrased my statement and further comments instead of taking them to be what they infact aim to convey. Vanamonde93 was blatantly canvassed by a disruptive editor [30] who had no consensus but was hell bent on pushing POV as well as serial canvassing [31] [32]. I did convince Vanamonde93 of that but the fact that he responded to canvassing and that he actually did emphasize in some way of going for the proposed edits for which he was asked to comment (he did not really support my stance). He did later agree to a compromise which is fine and I did not expect him to be making such a statement here due to that, but saying that he entered a dispute on my side (a WP:BATTLE statement in its own context) is totally incorrect. Maybe some one is emailing random editors at WP:IND with pointers to an obscure AE discussion as this? Sorry can't assume good faith when it comes to patterns after having dealt through a myraid of them and all turning out the same way, but still will not comment on the editors who are commenting here either. --lTopGunl (talk) 17:04, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NE Ent

Given the link provided by TopGun, I suggest DarknessShine's talk page access and email be removed. See also prior AN discussion. NE Ent 11:50, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The removal of the logged warning was in accordance with DS Appeals protocol; there was an eight day discussion at AN where the overwhelming consensus was the removal was warranted. NE Ent 22:41, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Rsrikanth05

I interacted with TopGun only in the last 12 hours and I am absolutely appalled by their behaviour. TG accused me of edit warring, and left a warning on my talk page which Yunshui responded to and clarified that I was in no way, edit warring. Among other claims, TG stated that the warning was to prevent me from any further disruptive edits, and that I had edit warred by undoing his edit, which I had not. Major-General Asim Bajwa was linked, which TG linked as Major-General Asim Bajwa. I merely unlinked the latter as it was a red [irony is that both are now unlinked]. The other two EW examples cited was removal of a parent category who subcat was already present and removal of a link to Russian Federation which had earlier been removed by Koavf. Apparently, me doing it is a problem, others is not. Apart from this, I was also notified of the discretionary sanction, which although was good, I feel was unwarranted. Subsequently, I responded on the RfC [Battle of Chawinda], where TG automatically seems to assume that they know more than the other. Yes, I know the NLA trove is a digital archive, I have worked on digitisation of papers before. However, what is more appalling is when OccultZone posted about a discussion on the India noticeboard and TG immediately put forth a proposal to try and prohibit posting on such noticeboards in such a situation. Thankfully, such a restrictive proposal was met with no support. My only point here is that TG seems to believe in the 'If it doesn't work my way, then it is wrong' methods. The Holier Than Thou attitude is unwarranted on enwp and I have decided I will not edit any article TG has edited. Not surprisingly, the user who asks me to 'discuss' before I edit themselves is being accused of the same thing above. Apart from a Topic ban of atleast six months, I think an interaction ban would be required. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 20:13, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by AmritasyaPutra

I have little (tending towards zero) interaction with TG, but the article talk page does feel like WP:BLUD example. It discourages other editors from participating. I think keeping reference to DS minimum is good. He may not be able to reply here and the circumstances for this report mostly deal with TG behavior for which DS should not be held responsible. --AmritasyaPutra^T 02:12, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Vanamonde93

I have only interacted with TopGun once, on Azad Kashmir. Initially, I entered the dispute on TG's side; a new editor was pushing an Indian government POV with a certain lack of discussion (I will provide diffs if asked; I don't currently want to clutter the page). However, that new editor eventually did join a discussion, here, which other editors eventually joined. Despite the original POV push, there was a genuine content issue there; a lack of compliance with a redirect guideline. There were many ways to solve this issue; however (and this is really my point) TopGun essentially restricted their contributions to contradicting other's suggestion, without once providing an alternative. This is not explicitly in violation of any policy; yet a glance through their contributions to that discussion shows an incredible battleground mindset, even when dealing with editors that entered the discussion on their side. DS had absolutely nothing to do with this particular fracas; he had been topic-banned well before. Vanamonde93 (talk) 14:35, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Strike Eagle

I've known TopGun for quite some time now and all I can say is that he can't seem to doesn't want to shed his battleground mentality. I would like to say only about the recent issues though. He accused me of responding to canvassing(verified by admins here that there was none) and then reverts me in another article when I add reliable books as sources. He claims stability as the reason for revert...I don't know any policy which states stability means consensus. And then abuses the TW tool by making what obviously is an intentional revert without summary. Later he makes a null edit only to give the most vague edit summary I've seen in my entire life. He doesn't bother to clarify why my book sources are not reliable and his newspaper is more reliable. I still don't get how DS is related to this....apparently it seems as an effort by TG to divert people from his reckless abuse of reversion and self-proclaimed and declared results to wars...Thanks, ƬheStrike Σagle

~~Result concerning TopGun~~

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

On an initial look. This case is a bit of a mess. TopGun's block log has 8 entries from 2012. MastCell also stated in November 2014 that "a number of TopGun's blocks resulted from his interactions with an abusive sockpuppet (DS); TopGun would likely not have been blocked in some instances if this had been clear at the time"[33]. So that point of this complaint is muck raking. Also the list of diffs is mainly non-actionable. Only 2 diffs (and only 1 of the reverts from December 3rd 2014) come after a valid AC/DS notification[34]. Also the point re: ignoring RSN consensus is moot since the discussion at RSN ended without consensus[35].
Now after all that these are mainly matters for WP:RSN. Ocultzone's understanding of WP:PRIMARY borders (at best) on wikilawyering. The only matters that comes close to action IMO are the edit-warring on December 3rd and the misrepresentation of sources by TopGun. Regarding the latter this edit[36] is indeed disruptive. The source quoted says nothing about a major Pakistani victory and is in fact a discussion of how both the armies used their armored formations poorly and how both proved adept with smaller forces. How this relates to a "Major victory" for anyone is very unclear. And I would indeed classify this as disruptive use of sources.
I'd like to see input from other sysops before commenting further but I'm looking at the actions of both TopGun and Occultzone--Cailil ^talk 14:58, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

TopGun what evidence is there of DS sending emails to OccultZone?--Cailil ^talk 15:04, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

TopGun the source says nothing about ANY victory. You threw in a source that does not relate to the content. That's effectively spamming a contested piece of text with "references" that do not support the assertion. That's disruptive editing. I suggest you don't belabour the point. Also please take a step back there is no need to rush. If Darkness Shines is working with Occultzone it will "come out in the wash"--Cailil ^talk 15:13, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I too am looking at the behaviour of both users. I'm not convinced that there is enough (one edit war which didn't cross 3RR and the source misrepresentation) is enough to topic ban in itself. However the personal attack and divisiveness of referring to another editor you've edit warred with by their country ("another Indian editor" in TopGun's statement) in an AE report suggests to me that the topic area would be best served by removing TopGun from it. Regarding OccultZone, I'm not convinced (yet) that there is enough there to warrant a topic ban yet, also considering that they haven't been reported at AE before, though I wouldn't have an issue with a reminder to submit actionable and relevant evidence and to ensure that they cooperate with others when trying to come to a consensus. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:49, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The things I find most pressing on TopGun's side are is misuse of sources (and defense of that) and indeed the casting of aspersions. OccultZone was admonished by the user (StrikeEagle) he contacted, TopGun's over-hasty and divisive action then (December 3rd) and now in misconstruing it in a way that implies impropriety on StrikeEagle's side (where there was none) is a clear WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality. On OccultZone's side this whole case is designed to rake as much mud and patch together as many things to make TopGun look bad (which was thoroughly unnecessary) combined with the non-neutral message to StrikeEagle which although not canvassing was bad form (see here). Given all that I'd be happy with a final warning to OccultZone re:WP:BATTLE (and unclean hands at WP:AE) and a topic ban for TopGun--Cailil ^talk 12:25, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See also User_talk:Callanecc#AE_questions. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:36, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Darkness Shines, he implies that he has appealed his ban to ArbCom. I can see good reason to revoke talk page and email access but given that appeal I'd like to see an Arb comment--Cailil ^talk 12:27, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We're probably pretty safe in pulling it, they'll comment or add it back if they think it necessary. Given they haven't started a public discussion they'll probably do it in private. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 13:36, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Since there's been no further admin input, since the comments from myself and Callanecc, I'd suggest closing with a topic ban (from the India, Pakistan and Afghanistan topic areas) for TopGun, and a final warning re: WP:BATTLE for OccultZone. Unless there's further comment in the next 24 hours I'll make that close myself.
Given the complexity of the Darkness Shines issue I'd suggest being conservative, however if the BASC does not unblock him and there is any further interference with this topic area an individual case laying out all the evidence and the timeline might (and I stress "might") be necessary--Cailil ^talk 13:54, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This report shows edit warring by User:TopGun on the Battle of Chawinda, a topic from the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 and follows a previous AE complaint in late 2013 at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive141#TopGun. At that time the complaint was about edit warring at Operation Chengiz Khan, a topic from the 1965 war between India and Pakistan. The decision in the 2013 AE case was to issue TopGun a final warning. If it was in fact a final warning then this time around we need to do something. So I would propose a ban of at least three months from the topic of all the wars between India and Pakistan. I don't see enough problem with User:OccultZone's edits to do anything. His decision to go to WP:RSN was reasonable and is a good step to take to minimize edit warring. If a formal RfC had been held at Battle of Chawinda (which would have been sensible) my guess is that OccultZone's arguments might have prevailed. TopGun's effort to make this battle into a major Pakistani victory looks like an uphill struggle given the sources. EdJohnston (talk) 05:07, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy with the area of your suggested ban, however given that the final warning was a year ago I wouldn't think that three months is going to do the job. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 08:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is an issue (see here) with how the final warning was removed from the log such that I don't believe it should have been as it was a discretionary sanction, so we should probably wait for that to be sorted out before we take action here. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:53, 17 December 2014‎

I agree with Ed re: the 3 month ban. But I do see exactly where you're coming from Callanecc. Given that this is a first topic ban I think 3 months is a reasonable sanction. If TopGun returns and repeats old behaviour we can note here that recidivism will be looked upon harshly. If there is no consensus re: OccultZone then we have to leave that (however, I consider the conglomeration of actions on view here to be sufficiently belligerent to raise concern).
There are a number of messy aspects to this case however and they revolve around TopGun and OccultZone's interactions with Darkness Shines. To my mind we either take the conservative approach of sanctioning TopGun alone, or we push this up the line to the Committee and let them deal with the whole scenario. Or we do a bit of both, sanction TopGun and let the committee confirm it or repeal it and let them sort out the DS and OZ situation (my preferred option if the conservative approach is not followed). None of these scenarios are good.--Cailil ^talk 14:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

IMHO DS is "kicking up enough dust" while blocked for admitting sockpuppetry to cause the complication. If one looks at the DS SPI there is significant concern re: !Vote stacking and hounding TG in the WP:ARBIP area for me to raise an eyebrow. Furthermore the interaction issue between both TG and DS is long standing (see here). To my mind none of this excuses TG's actions (especially while DS is blocked) but it may warrant examination. Future Perfect's contribution to the DS SPI is convincing that this is serious. Furthermore given that the BASC may not know (however unlikely that might seem) that this case is significant to DS's appeal perhaps sending the Darkness Shines aspects of this case to the Committee is actually the only thing we can do, given the danger of being countermanded and then creating a further mess--Cailil ^talk 14:23, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTTHEM tells blocked editors not to blame others for their predicament. Though TopGun is not here as a blocked editor, he seems to think a lot of blame for past events can be laid off on User:Darkness_Shines. I don't think Darkness Shines was forcing him to declare the Battle of Chawinda to be a major Pakistani victory in spite of the feeble sources for that conclusion, or to keep reverting when others disagreed. I suggest we do not ask Arbcom to sort this out. You could argue that the edit warring here was not enough to justify AE action, but pointing to Darkness Shines for extenuation is implausible. EdJohnston (talk) 18:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 14:45, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely I agree there is no excuse for TG's actions. And I support sanction against him. I am however concerned that the wider issue will recur, but perhaps it's best to wait and see with regard to that and just close this with a 3 month topic ban for TG?--Cailil ^talk 18:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've imposed the topic ban, I think it's best to deal with any further issues then if they come up, or if something happens in the meantime we can address it then. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:47, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

William M. Connolley

Closed with no action--Cailil ^talk 17:32, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning William M. Connolley

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Serten II (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: William_M._Connolley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[37] Explanation Complete erasure of (34,638 bytes) at 22:38, 16 December 2014 (The "literature" section said it all as comment, no reaction on the talk page).

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any: Connolley has a topic ban on some aspects on the topic, especially with some persons he doesnt like. It seems that this may applicable here as well, since he seems not to like some of the persons being quoted, as Reiner Grundmann. Similar approach in Ozone depletion, he denied new content being added tilll a seperate article Ozone depletion and global warming was released.

various revisions through WMC on 17:28, 23 August 2014 (edit) (undo)

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Basically all in place and alerts have been given. Serten II (talk) 23:57, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The draft has been available for months and its been well known and stated that I have been working on the draft [38]. If WMC might have had any concerns, he might have uttered them before. Point is, an article about the actual consensus making process of the IPCC and its wide discussion in the social science field has not been written before and is of a certain interest. The current entries (Scientific opinion on climate change, the IPCC entry itself and others) use part of the IPCC assessments but do not describe the actual science (with various peer reviewed papers and high ranking scholars included) about it. In so far the Process per se is not being described properly. To disallow for such an article by a sort of "cold AfD" is rather disruptive. If Connolley has something to say, he shall go via the talk page or a regular AFD, the current procedure is not acceptable.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Done

Discussion concerning William_M._Connolley

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by William M. Connolley

Statement by Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs)

This page is clearly a personal essay that had somehow been moved into article space. In his edit summary, William Connolley is apparently drawing attention to the fact that it's an opinion piece largely based on a single source. I would probably have tagged it for summary deletion, but replacing it with a redirect works just as well. I see no credible evidence of a ban violation in this instance. --23:59, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by NewsAndEventsGuy (talk · contribs)

A. No compliant notice on wmc's talk page
B. I agree with Tony's assessment, and I was trying to tag the essay POVFORK when WMC turned it into a redir
C. I don't really know about RFC/u but I wonder if that would be helpful in this case? Among other problems, Serten was blocked for edit warring in climate pages not so long ago, and ironically is edit warring even as he was posting this complaint.

NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 00:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

After I posted the above examples, Serten made three edits to this thread, the last being at 00:47 and then (amazingly) provides

Edit war Example-3

NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Point of information

WP:RFC/U has been discontinued. NE Ent 00:41, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Serten II (talk · contribs)

Interesting claims by Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs) and NewsAndEventsGuy, still need an idea which of the current 58 sources are a single one. Actually, NewsAndEventsGuy added no POF/FORK, see talk page. He and others started to work cooperatively on the article, till WMS's disruptive edit. Then he went shopping for support to install a POV/Fork. Funny coincidence. Since then, various links to the article have been reverted, based on sometimes ridiculous reasoning, compare [39] . I have reverted once and contributed to various talk pages. Serten II (talk) 00:32, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

PS.: comments were transfered as required.
PPS.: The IPCC consensus article contents are not being covered by current articles in the climate field. Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change and others use primary (IPCC internal) sources, the relevant secondary sources (on the IPCC work as in my case) are being actively ignored. Quote on Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change Talk page "This article is not about the IPCC or its processes or policies"]. Now we have at least one that is.
PPPS.: NewsAndEventsGuy EW allegations = WP:GIANTDICK, nice try, in the meanwhile I inserted a disambiguation link and a basic aim section on the talk page.
PPPPS.: Dave Souzas claim ignores the scholar search provided to him already (and a more friendly wording instead the Harry-Frankfurter-word) before he came up here, he then picks on a NSCE. That has been repaced by quotes from Martin Voss (ed.) Springer handbook on social science perspectives in climate change. Dave might have refered as well to Michael Oppenheimer "limits of consensus" article in Science and other major papers.

IPCC+consensus =42.000 scjolar entries In 2010 e.g. 'creating, defending and communicating ... consensus' has been part of the 2010 external review (via the IAC) of the IPCC itself, a major change of policy, the outcome of which and the article refering to it has been ignored so far within the enWP. Questions? WMC is prohibited from editing relating to any living person in the field for good reasons. He erased an 60 references strong article with a laconic "(The "literature" section said it all") comment, offending and abusing scholars of the rank of Reiner Grundmann and Nico Stehr and interrupts an previously ongoing constructive discussion and improvement. Thats why I am here. Point is, that going back to userspace is being required here, (instead of discussing a major disruptive edit), the message is "don't write articles based on scholarly sources we don't like". Thats not what Wikipedia is about. I currently have to defend the article both from people, that come up with popular sceptisism and those try to have primary sources and a self description of the IPCC ideals being inserted. Neither is my interest. My point is to use scholarly third party sources that describe the actual process of IPCC consensus making and its challenges. An interesting side effect is that this is applicable as well to WP itself, if I guess right, User:Jeangoodwin wrote papers on the WP and the IPCC ;) She may have a point on that ;) Serten II (talk) 18:39, 17 December 2014 (UTC) With regard to User:Callaneccs comment, I might agree with the notion, than a once revert to a redirect might not infringe the ban and still be inline with the conversation tone deemed as normal in the climate realm. Its however way beyound WP:civil, rather disruptive and poisoned the athmosphere. Connolley has not been active on any talk page or bothered to appear here. To close the case, I ask for a reminder of basic rules for him and to keep the article under surveillance. Serten II (talk) 05:49, 19 December 2014 (UTC) PS.: Reason to keep an eye on it[reply]

Statement by dave souza (talk · contribs)

The diff given by Serten II for "The draft has been available for months and its been well known and stated that I have been working on the draft"[40] shows that NAEG was aware of the draft at User:Serten/IPCC consensus but gives no indication that it was advertised: I do some editing in the topic area and was completely unaware of it. Even if I had been, that doesn't give it immunity from the usual editing process in mainspace.

At 19:49, 16 December 2014‎ Serten II "moved page User:Serten/IPCC consensus to IPCC consensus: done so far". Unfortunately the article is still incoherent, and even lacks a definition of the title or any indication that "IPCC consensus" exists as a term in English.

The use of sources is idiosyncratic and questionable. For example, "The IPCC science assessment of Global warming as such itself, similar to Evolution as a mainstay of biology since the 19th century, is being deemed acknowledged and of less basic controversies." is sourced to an NCSE critique which notes that the creationist book Explore Evolution "equates alleged controversy about evolution with controversies over plate tectonics, climate change, and string theory". but only uses the phrase "IPCC consensus" after defining that specifically as the 2001 consensus that “most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations," and subsequently calls the same thing "the IPCC assessment". The article just isn't ready for mainspace, and its topic needs a clear definition.

It was therefore reasonable for William M. Connolley (WMC) to make it a redirect until it's sorted out. Unfortunately, Serten II's response was "Bullshit revert by WMC You have had all time to comment on my draft, if you come now and revert valid content, youre just disrupting stuff. Start a discussion or get lost. Serten II (talk) 23:15, 16 December 2014 (UTC)" followed rather quickly with this AE request. Serten II is clearly aware of the WP:ARBCC ruling, but seems to have missed Principle 2.1.5 Wikipedia is not a battleground. Serten II needs to slow down, take care to represent sources accurately, and move the draft back into userspace until it makes sense and has a defined topic which is not a POV fork. . dave souza, talk 02:56, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JzG (talk · contribs)

William's action is clearly correct per policy, as the article has numerous problems (as expected for any monograph by an editors with a strong opinion) so I moved it back to User:Serten II/IPCC consensus for now. Hopefully Serten II will have the good sense to get others to help tone it down and make it less of a POV fork before trying to move it back to mainspace, because the alternative is yet another drama-laden AfD with the usual partisans chucking bricks at each other and I don't think anyone needs that. Guy (Help!) 15:27, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning William M. Connolley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

WC's action of redirecting the page seems not unreasonable to me. Moreover, User:Serten II, what is this "topic ban on some aspects of [climate change], especially with some persons he doesnt like" that you talk about? Please provide a quote or link or something. When I tried to find the terms of the alleged topic ban on this page, I saw several bans, but they all expired in 2010. Have I missed something? Also, Serten, please don't argue in other people's sections. I tried to move your responses up to your own section, but you keep edit conflicting me, I had to give up. You'd better move them yourself, if you value them, before somebody deletes them. Bishonen | talk 00:38, 17 December 2014 (UTC).[reply]
Per section 5.6 of WP:ARBCC#Specific remedies, after amendment by a 2011 motion, "William M. Connolley is permitted to edit within the topic area of Climate change, but is prohibited from editing relating to any living person associated with this topic, interpreted broadly but reasonably. William M. Connolley is reminded to abide by all applicable Wikipedia policies in editing on this topic and that he remains subject either to further action by this Committee or (like all editors in this topic-area) to discretionary sanctions should he fail to do so." If people believe that IPCC consensus should not be a Wikipedia article, the right thing to do is probably to nominate it for deletion. If an edit war continues on whether to have a redirect or an article then blocks or sanctions under ARBCC ought to be considered. EdJohnston (talk) 04:25, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with comments so far. No violation of the ban, and I don't see a need to impose discretionary sanctions. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 15:09, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closed with no action--Cailil ^talk 17:32, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pigsonthewing

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Pigsonthewing

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Wesley Mouse (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:11, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Pigsonthewing (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Pigsonthewing and infoboxes :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

6 December 2014 Nomination of {{Infobox ABU Radio}} with the aim to discuss its removal.
6 December 2014 Nomination of {{Infobox Sanremo Music Festival}} with the aim to discuss its removal.
6 December 2014 Nomination of {{Infobox Cân i Gymru National Year}} with the aim to discuss its merging/removal.
6 December 2014 Nomination of {{Infobox ABU country}} with the aim to discuss its merging.
6 December 2014 False allegation of canvassing. After which the user then admitted to "searching through my talk page archives" in order to dig up dirt; which made it look like the user was attempting to have me silenced and blocked so that their desire to have the deletion of nominated infoboxes was carried out successfully.
7 December 2014 Pigsonthewing stated that no templates would be merged/deleted until a replacement was ready. The replacement template in question became {{Infobox Song Contest}} which addressed all the issues that were raised at the TfD.
17 December 2014 Despite PotW's recommendation to create the universal infobox, {{Infobox Song Contest}}, he goes and nominates the aforementioned replacement for deletion anyway. Clear attempt to cause disruption and fuel up more heated mudslinging debates.
18 December 2014 the user reverts an edit made on WikiProject Eurovision stating that "TFDs are still in progress". The previous version clearly shown that there were new templates and the ones being discussed at the TFDs could become obsolete depending on the result of the TFD.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Pigsonthewing and infoboxes which states that "Pigsonthewing is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes.". Submitting TfD requests is skirting around such remedies, as the user is nominating infoboxes for deletion, discussing rationale on such nominations, with the intent to have someone else delete/merge infoboxes. It goes against the spirit of the remedy imposed on the user, as they are nominating infboxes in order to have someone else delete/merge them. By nominating infoboxes for templates for discussion he is "adding" with the intent to engage in "discussion" so that his nominated templates are either merged or "removed". Thus Pigsonthewing is indirectly going against the spirit of the remedy "adding, or discussing the addition or removal of infoboxes", by having someone else do the work on their behalf.
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing#Remedies notes that the user "may be banned for good cause by any administrator from any page or talk page which he disrupts". He has demonstrated and admitted that he trawled through my talk page archives in order to dig up dirt. The archived discussion that he used was in no relation to the allegations he was making, and was 18 months old. Doing such sly actions like that is a clear way to stir up trouble and distress against myself.
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing 2 further arbitration requests on 6 July 2007.
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive147#Pigsonthewing Another arbitration request covering similar issues was made in March 2014.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 8 December 2014 by JamesBWatson (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

As I noted from a previous remedy imposed on the user, "Pigsonthewing is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes.". Although the user is not directly adding or removing infoboxes himself, he is however, indirectly having them removed by nominating infoboxes at TfD noticeboards - which provides the intent to engage in discussion of their proposed removal; of which such removal would be carried out by someone else, rather than the user in person.

Note I will be unavailable from 18:00 GMT due to real-life participation of a championship 8-ball pool competition. Any further discussions from my behalf will be made upon my return. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 14:29, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Harry Mitchell:: He did remove templates today from project space. But I must agree that if the ArbCom remedy is drafted incorrectly, that it should be addressed to prevent further misinterpretations like this in the future. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 14:40, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Thryduulf: Some of the comments made at the TFDs dated 6 December, were a bit untoward. For example searching through someone's talk page archives in an attempt to "dig up dirt". Even an admin stated such behaviour was problematic and should only be done by admins at a noticeboard such as ANI. Also some participants from those TfD's of 6 December, did note that a universal template should be created. Pigsonthewing also commented that no templates would be merged/deleted until a replacement was created. As there are a lot of templates to be dealt with, that naturally it will tale time (especially with Christmas around the corner). The first replacement was created and rolled out, only to have PotW then nominate the replacement for deletion. I find that somewhat cheeky as he was one of the people who said a new universal design would be better, and then goes and nominates it for deletion. Makes no sense. And for the false allegations of canvassing are also uncalled for. He even took 2 comments that were not even related to these TfDs and classified them as "further canvassing" when the wording of such linked threads were not even canvassing, but peaceful discussion about something entirely different. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 15:01, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Thryduulf: and Callanecc And now he is engaging in edit warring on Project Eurovision. And then states that the notification to him about this AE discussion is "trolling"? Seriously? This needs to stop. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 15:05, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Callanecc: Now I have been accused of plagiarism, which is outrageous and false accusation to make. AxG created {{Infobox Eurovision}}. And at User:AxG/Sandbox/12 he created the new {{Infobox Song Contest}} of which at his talk page he stated it was now "finished" and I had permission from him to copy/paste the new version from his sandbox into the new template space. How is that plagiarism when I was granted permission from the creator? Andy is clearly trying to dig up as much dirt as possible in order to cause disruption, distress, and fuelling the fire with such fallacies. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 15:28, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@NE Ent:, yes that is how I see it too. Although the user is not directly removing the infoboxes themselves, they are nominating with the intent to have them deleted, and thus by having an admin delete them, they have become "removed from an article" (to put it in Layman's terms, they have been indirectly removed by a third party, based on the action of a TfD nomination by the user and its subsequent comments from other users). Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 12:20, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Thryduulf: Evidence of disruption at TfD's is highly found, not just in the TfD's of 6 and 17 December, but other TfD's that Andy has nominated. He tends to use an aggressive and sometimes patronising tone towards people who makes comments or casts !votes at any TfD that he has opened up. For example here he implies that the new template has "intentions to pre-empt another discussion", which is a lie. The new template was created based on his and other user's recommendations to have a universal design that would work on any annual Song Contest article. In this diff he not only attacks myself, but also an administrator. Then there are the allegations he kept making about canvassing, which were even proven to be false - yet he has not had the decency to retract the allegations nor apologise for the distress in which he caused by making false allegations. He later makes a subtle canvass himself to another editor, who coincidently then takes part at Andy's created TfD. There was further inflamatory comments made at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision#Restructuring both at myself and the same administrator I mentioned previously. He also claimed this and this other discussions as canvassing, trying to fuel up fire, when it is clear those discussions do not even constitute canvassing, as the first was a reply to another editor's question, the second was noting that Andy had previously nominated all the same templates 9 months ago, and back then they resulted in a "keep". He attacks me in this remark and accusing me of plagiarism. Evidence of patronising tone when he says who is "Andrew"?. Doesn't take a scientists to know that Andrew/Andy are the same name. Calling me an artisan (whatever that means). Further patronising tones. Here he threatens to have me blocked. Searching through my talk page archives for discussion that he has never been involved with, with clear intent that it will add fuel to the fire and stir up more disruption. And they are just a few examples from TfD's I've been involved with. There are plenty more that I have not been involved with, and anyone is able to access all the TfD's and see for themselves the manner in which he conducts his comments in patronising/aggressive tones. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 16:01, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Thryduulf: And now he is altering other's talk page comments and uses more incivility by telling me "tough", that if I post at TFD anyone is "at liberty to answer". Yet my comment was clearly directed at another editor, not Andy - so he rudely butted into a conversation. His rude arrogant behaviour is causing more harm than good. It is stirring up more trouble, adding fuel to the fire. He is a grown man and should know better than to act like a child in a school playground. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 17:01, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

done

Discussion concerning Pigsonthewing

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Pigsonthewing

Statement by Harry Mitchell

Andy is a personal fried IRL, so I won't be commenting as an uninvolved admin. Sigh. The remedy is atrociously drafted (note to arbs: draft proper remedies or they come back to bite you). But it applies to discussing the addition or removal of infoboxes from articles. Andy's participation at TfD was never in question in the arbitration case, and does not in any way violate the remedy. This should be closed quickly with no action (again) as it has repeatedly been used as a stick with which to beat Andy. I don't fault Wes for misinterpreting the remedy, for the record, I fault ArbCom for the cack-handed drafting. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:30, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Thryduulf

I don't see any of this as a violation of either the letter or spirit of the arbitration restrictions regarding infoboxes, which relate to adding or removing infoboxes from articles. Previous AE consensuses and the discussion that led to Andy being unblocked this month both support this interpretation. The TfD discussions are about whether one type of infobox should be replaced with and/or merged with a different type of infobox, the effect on an article would be like changing {{infobox foo}} to {{infobox bar}}. This is even less of a significant change than that discussed at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Request for Clarification (July 2014) where the arbitrators found that there was no breach of the restriction. Note I am commenting here from the position of an admin who is involved in the topic area but not in the specific instances discussed here, not as an arbitrator. Thryduulf (talk) 14:39, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Wesley Mouse: Again, none of those discussions were about the addition or removal of infoboxes from articles. e.g. Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 December 6#Template:Infobox ABU country is requesting that any transclusions of {{Infobox ABU country}} be replaced with {{Infobox Eurovision country}}. Yes, the restriction is appallingly written but there has been so much subsequent discussion about it that the intent to restrict it to articles is abundantly clear. Thryduulf (talk) 14:53, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

TfD works slowly - it doesn't seem unusual for things to be agreed which take months to be implemented. While the nominating the replacement template for deletion after suggesting it does sound a bit silly, I'm not at all sure how that is relevant to this restriction? Likewise "digging dirt" and bad accusations of canvassing are not optimal, and an admonishment would not be out of line, but they are not breeches of arbcom restrictions. Thryduulf (talk) 15:09, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the tone of those comments could be improved but I'm not seeing that as disruptive, let alone a violation of his restrictions. Rich is right that anyone can comment on a TfD discussion, and you are not required to report his every comment here. Thryduulf (talk) 17:05, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Callanecc: that would definitely help, but the current committee is fed up to the back teeth with this case (which is a direct result of the absolute mess that was made of the whole thing) and so are unlikely to take kindly to any request to discuss it further and could easily dismiss it out of hand. I would wait until the new committee before initiating such a request - I will have to recuse of course, but I think it more likely to be meaningfully considered. Thryduulf (talk) 14:56, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Callanecc: 1 admonishment each for edit warring, an admonishment for Andy for the "trolling" comment and an admonishment for Wes for the "possible vandalism" comment would indeed be appropriate here I think. Thryduulf (talk) 15:45, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@NE Ent: If an infobox is deleted, as opposed to being renamed, merged or redirected, then yes it would be removed from an article. However it was merging that was being proposed here and so that point is a technicality. Your suggestion to restrict Andy from discussing infoboxes at TfD would have the same clarificatory effect as the article space limit to the arbcom decision, but I would want to see some evidence of Andy disrupting TfD (generally) or disrupting TfDs about infoboxes before I could support that. As it stands the disruption is being caused by other users misinterpreting the poorly-worded restriction. Thryduulf (talk) 15:04, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NE Ent

If a template which is an infobox is deleted, that removes it from an article, right? Rather than wikilawyer over the perceived quality of Arbcom's 2013 wording, wouldn't it be simpler to page ban from Tfds on infoboxes per Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pigsonthewing#Pigsonthewing_placed_on_probation? NE Ent

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Pigsonthewing

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I agree that there is an implication that the restriction applies to articles and hence that there is no violation. However it probably wouldn't hurt to get ArbCom (through WP:A/R/CA) to pass a motion adding those two words to the remedy and solve this issue for the future. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs)

@Thryduulf: Probably a good idea to wait, but this is about as easy as it gets (given we can write the motion for them) and they are usually quite happy to act when admins active in AE ask them to clarify/do something. Plus waiting just means we have to do another one of these to remind us all that we need to get it amended (no reflection on Wesley Mouse intended, it is the way the remedy is worded). But I don't mind waiting, I'm happy to post the request if others think it's worth doing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 15:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Given the edit war at Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision/rightpanel I'm considering two admonishments for edit warring and incivility ("trolling" and labeling the other's edits as "possible vandalism"). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 15:20, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with User:Callanecc. User:Pigsonthewing hasn't violated his infobox restriction, because the intent of the case was only to limit adding infoboxes to or removing them from articles. It would be reasonable for someone to ask at WP:ARCA to amend the restriction to refer only to adding infoboxes to articles. No objection to any warnings that Callanecc thinks necessary but it seems they would be an ordinary admin action and not fall under the authority of the case. EdJohnston (talk) 15:47, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Factchecker_atyourservice

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Factchecker_atyourservice

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: RAN1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:02, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Factchecker_atyourservice (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Footnoted quotes#May 2014 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

The following diffs consist of personal attacks:

[41] - in response to Dwpaul's comment, self-explanatory
[42] - says Myopia123 is clearly trolling, unconsciously racist
[43] - jokes that Cwobeel is edit-warring to defame persons covered by BLP
[44] - continues accusing Myopia123 of trolling
[45] - says the cause of Cwobeel's actions is "hyper-partisan anger" and desire to defame.
[46] - calls Cwobeel's opinion uninformed
[47] - self-explanatory attack on Cwobeel's editing
[48] - Cites Cwobeel's accidental source misrepresentation to justify an argument.
[49] - Implies that RAN1 is careless
[50] - Describes Cwobeel's editing style as sophistric, disingenuous and overt reality defying
[51] - Asks Cwobeel if he thinks dishonesty and source misrepresentation are helpful to the project
[52] - "Go cry elsewhere" in edit summary. Edit removes Cwobeel's announcing his withdrawal from the discussion.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Has previously been blocked for edit warring on BLP pages, see block log linked to above.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Factchecker_atyourservice has been making repeated personal attacks against other editors to the detriment of collaboration. He was warned about discretionary sanctions in October, and was also warned at least once about the consequences of personal attacks last week [53]. This has not abated his use of personal attacks, even when an editor he's attacking has left discussion of the topic under sanctions. His conduct is therefore disruptive.

@ChrisGualtieri: While I won't make any statements regarding Cwobeel's comments or behavior, I will mention that that RFC was not improper. WP:BLP states that anything falling under BLPREMOVE "should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." This does not mean that discussion should not happen. While admittedly I did not interpret BLP well previously, I pushed for the discussion of the removed material in question [54] [55]. I also have to mention that no comment should be a justification for personal attacks. BLP should not be an excuse to start incorporating WP:NPA#WHATIS as source material. --RAN1 (talk) 06:58, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Collect: FYI it's discretionary sanctions that apply to BLP pages, not WP:BLP that applies to discretionary sanctions. I brought this request under NPA and civility, both of which are policies and are fair here. --RAN1 (talk) 19:36, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[56]

Discussion concerning Factchecker_atyourservice

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Factchecker_atyourservice

Statement by Brianhe

I reminded FCAYS in October that he was violating the terms of a "final warning" issued by TParis at the closure of a May ANI case with his continued disruption and incivility [57], providing diffs to his statements "I, also, give zero fucks about what you think", "you're in fact colossally bad at editing WP and understanding its policies", and "shut the hell up" directed at other editors. I again warned him in December that he was in danger of of discretionary sanctions for incivility at Shooting of Michael Brown-related pages [58]. — Brianhe (talk) 03:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TParis

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive841#Factchecker_atyourservice_isn.27t_here_to_build_an_encyclopedia.--v/r - T P 04:12, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Chrisgualtieri

These "personal attacks" are pretty weak. The 1st is a well-known Iain Banks quote, "Empathize with stupidity and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." This is not a personal attack, but it is sharp criticism. What is its purpose? It follows Myopia123's accusation that Wikipedia editors are racist and do not even know it (hidden racism). Factchecker is basically, and without proper context, saying that you should not be empathize or legitimize the opinions of someone who just called you a racist. Coupled with the "core issue is racism" editors should WP:DENY unsupported accusations that they are hidden racists. Which takes care of the other Myopia issues - by an editor, ironically - using a term for nearsightedness as their name.

The others, concerning Cwobeel are more complex. And that's why I expected Cwobeel to be here and not Factchecker. Why? The editor does not understand WP:IRS to WP:BLP and just about everything in between. This is despite walls of text and a week of trying to help correct the issue. This addition alone would beg a warning and this reinsertion includes an additional criminal accusation following a good-faith removal of a BLP claim. Those are not all, or even the most problematic ones - just a sizable chunk of entirely negative material copy and pasted across pages.

I patrol BLP/N and I am very well informed on WP:BLP. Accusations leveled against a living person are permissible, if the source is reliable, if the author is notable, and if it is not a minority viewpoint. ... - Cwobeel (talk) 19:46, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Cwobeel says "I am very well informed on WP:BLP", but a well-informed user would not add a wall of negative quotations dedicated to portray the subject as deceptive, manipulative and biased light like this. ~~Cwobeel and also the filer (Ran1) does not understand WP:BLP very well, as the existence of this this RFC demonstrates.~~ Self-struck

Factchecker has civility issues when he is upset over some of these BLP issues. The case, however, is not a strong one when context is given the situations. I believe that it would be best to remind Factchecker of WP:CIVILITY. If punishment is "required" place him on a probation of 1 month against personal attacks or incivility. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 06:35, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mandruss

Once again, we use "they deserved it" as an excuse for verbal abuse, and wonder why we have a severe civility problem. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 06:46, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Cwobeel

It should be obvious by now, that FCAYS derives a certain pleasure from being an enfant terrible, and no matter how much feedback he gets about it, it is unlikely that he will change. The question is: his FCAYS making a useful contribution to the project or is he here just to raise heckles? If the former is correct, then we could just ignore his incivility, otherwise we should not.

As for the accusations of BLP violations made by ChrisGaultieri (btw, he never pinged me about this thread in which he is leveling accusations against me), just read what he quoted me saying, and let me know if my understanding of our core content policies is flawed.

Given the contentious nature of the article in question , and the fact that I have been heavily involved on editing it, and having made substantial content additions to the article over the past four months, I declared yesterday my withdrawal from editing that article for a while, to allow new editors to help improve the article by taking a fresh look. - Cwobeel (talk) 15:57, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

After re-reading Gualteri's comments, please note that the diffs he provided which he described as "criminal accusations" [59] are all impeccably sourced to CNN, USA Today, Fox News, St.Louis Post-Dispatch, Washington Post, and The Los Angeles Times. Furthermore, after discussions in talk page related to WP:UNDUE,[60] I trimmed that section considerably [61]. - Cwobeel (talk) 16:44, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Collect: I wonder if you will be so accommodating if you were the target of personal attacks; I would be surprised if that would be the case. I have a thick skin, but there is a limit. And whatever your accommodation may be, you have to accept the fact that such behavior can't be excused, no matter what the excuse is. If an editor is violating WP:BLP we don't have to disparage them or use foul language. We have a number of noticeboards to avail ourselves of assistance, and there is always WP:DR. Collaboration is hard work, and compromise is even harder, but that does not mean that we should allow editors to abuse others just because they think they are right and the target of their attacks, wrong. That approach is unacceptable, if we keep in mind the aims of the project. - Cwobeel (talk) 21:05, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Gaijin42

FCAYS and ChrisGualtieri have some legitimate complaints with the current state of the article. Some of that state can be explained by editor bias, but some of it is also explained by the flow of the case - witnesses and evidence that tend to support Wilson were not available until much later, when the bulk of the article had already been written. Since the newer information has come out, editors have been working to integrate the newer information. This process has not been perfect, there has been some resistance to changes that affect the overall narrative of the story away from the original popular interpretation.

However, FCAYS has some issues in the way they go about working towards improvements. They seem to have some issues with battleground and personalization of issues, as well as some issues with the common interpretations of WP:OR and WP:BLP. Their actions recently have been disruptive, but not meritless. IF they can reign it in, or be reigned in by some more less severe sanction, I think they can be an asset to the area. But there is a legitimate risk that they cannot be brought into the fold as well.

In some of the diffs listed above, FCAYS is clearly out of line. In some of them he is making legitimate complaints about the use of a source and the way what the source says was twisted into what the wiki said. He was right, but also made his point in an unnecessarily combative way. (This is a problem that is not restricted to FCAYS, nor is it restricted to editors on any particular "side" of the POV).

I will now end this wishy-washy statement. Gaijin42 (talk) 16:15, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

statement by Collect

A mélange of quite weak arguments, including use of a well-known quotation, and assertions of crypto-racism of some sort. Diffs clearly show deliberate examination and searching through weeks of FCAYS edits, seeking anything remotely objectionable, most of which simply fail to rise to any major level in the first place. A look at AndyTheGrump for one week or less will show far more animus than a month's worth here of FCAYS could. Nor has any sign that FCAYS has violated or sought to violate BLP policy been shown here - which is the basis under which apparently a sanction is being sought. The BLP at issue is rather a mess of allegations and rumours being given equal weight with facts determined through the legal system. Anyone seeking to add allegations and rumours in such articles, IMHO, is far more culpable of BLP violations than is FCAYS. I would also point out that sanctioning people on a "variable basis" for being uncivil is a major issue on Wikipedia, and one which should be quite avoided in the case at hand. Cheers. Collect (talk) 17:56, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@BH - the issue of civility enforcement in general is iffy at best - I suggest you read the recent discussions thereon. The issues you raise, found by thorough examination of every edit by FCAYS (including his use of a well-known adage) do not rise to the level needed here for sanctions, and I fear the ones who are abusing BLP are not FCAYS. Let us use BLP sanctions for those who actually abuse BLPs. Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:16, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@CW - I most have assuredly been the subject of stalkers, snide and snarky attacks, and disparagement. I advise folks to avoid the "drama boards" as a matter of course, and to recognize that there are always those who seem to want to have "enemy lists" of some sort or another (my bêtes-noires were "Inclusionist/TravB/manyothernames" and "Ratel/manyothernames") - and that doing such is a sign of weakness and insecurity as to the positions one takes. I offer you the exact same advice. And if you wish to "enforce civility" note that it took me over two years to get the infamous "DICK" essay emended at Meta.Collect (talk) 21:46, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Factchecker_atyourservice

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[a]

[b]

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