User talk:Connel MacKenzie/archive-2006-07

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Thank's for your Welcome

Thank's for your Welcome ! I'm sysop on french wiktionnary with the pseudo Grondin. --Bertrand GRONDIN 06:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: New Transwiki methods

I've responded to your inquiry about the new Special:Import method at my Wikipedia talk page. Thanks. TheProject 00:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Given that you've copied over the transwiki candidates and that Special:Log/import serves as a log for this, would it be appropriate for me to begin deleting (or propose deletion of) articles in Wikipedia sent to Wiktionary? Are these articles going to be treated as regular transwikis now? TheProject 02:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. But I think I need better instructions on what I'm supposed to do on the Wikipedia side, after zapping them over. I don't think I'll always have you to clean up after me on the Wikipedia side.  :-) At least, not in a synchronized manner, anyhow. --Connel MacKenzie T C 02:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The most important thing you need to do on the Wikipedia side is to log the transwiki at w:Wikipedia:Transwiki log, so that Wikipedia at least knows it was sent out and may possibly require deletion. Unfortunately, we don't have an automatic export log like the shiny new import log here.

If you're familiar with Wikipedia's inclusion policy (which I imagine you are), you can tag articles with {{prod}}, list it on AfD if appropriate, or simply tag with {{db-transwiki}} if it has already been through AfD and the outcome was to transwiki. Either way, if it shows up on Wikipedia's transwiki log, it'll get processed, even if there are a shortage of users monitoring that log.

So now that importing things makes transwikiing so much easier, is there some way I can help here, or have I been rendered redundant? :-) TheProject 03:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:-) Well, rendered redundant in a good way! Thanks for the tips...WT:TW, w:WP:TL and {{db-transwiki}}. Got it.

I suppose the best way you could help now, would be to learn the Wiktionary styles of formatting entries, vis. WT:ELE and start attacking Special:Randompage/Transwiki!

Vild and I will probably need occasional talk page reminders, whenever the Wikipedia side starts backing up. And perhaps even whomever is signed up to do it on WT:DW.

By the way, no, I'm less and less familiar with the Wikipedia policies and procedures, day by day. I never spent much time there, as I found Wiktionary quite early on. I've made an effort to try to bridge things "over the wall" whenver the opportunity presents itself, but that isn't often enough for me to really understand all the ins and outs there. Last time I checked, the Wikipedia deletion policy centered around a completely arbitrary notion of "not notable" with no attempt to define notability anywhere. I kindof gave up all hope for Wikipedia, when w:Fuzzy wuzzy bunnies was RfD'ed. (Don't look! Quick - do you know what that means? OK, now go look.) --Connel MacKenzie T C 03:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Great. Please keep an eye on w:Category:Move to Wiktionary regularly -- I'd be very much obliged. The other thing you might want to do is check if Wiktionary has an entry on whatever it is that you're transwikiing before you do the import. If the Wikipedia article would add nothing to the Wiktionary entry, it's probably better just to prod it at Wikipedia and not bother with the transwikiing and logging.

By the way, I'm not sure if WT:TW is actually needed anymore, if imports are already logged automatically at Wiktionary at Special:Log/import. They will, however, definitely need to be logged on Wikipedia's transwiki log. As long as it shows up there, someone there'll know what to do with it. :-) TheProject 03:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Check out the edit history for Transwiki:Makulit. Seems that if you import it more than once, it copies over duplicates. Not sure if this is a big problem, but you might want to know that. TheProject 04:12, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

By the way, yes, I will start bugging you if it backs up on Wikipedia, although do you think you could let me know who the contacts are for importing? Is it just you and Vild for now? TheProject 05:27, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, cleared up the mess with Transwiki:Makulit. Today, yes, it is just me and Vild. I am hopeful that will change, as the process works itself out, as we both tend to have too much on our plates already. Beyond that, an occasional/monthly note in WT:BP saying how many entries are in the category, might help spur some movement. It might also be helpful if you let me know how long those sub-categories have been over there on w:Category:Move to Wiktionary. Are those expected to be shunted over immediately as well? --Connel MacKenzie T C 07:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

What do you think about fiddling with the user rights towards Special:Import? As it's possible that this function is going to be used massively, we shouldn't keep it sysops-only. Making it available for everyone doesn't seem good either. So perhaps a separate permission level that could be quickly granted to transwiki volunteers? — Vildricianus 10:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

If we are going to start messing around with that, we should add a "Trusted user" flag that allows rollbacks and page moves, first. Next would be an ORTS user level that allows Amgine (et al) to view deleted entries. Then a Transwiki flag, that allows TheProject to Import:. Is that a bureaucrat function, or a Brion function? If bureaucrat, it may be an uphill battle. If it is a LocalSettings.php, then we should explain pretty damn clearly what we're up to, on WT:BP. Then we'd need request pages for each user level, a la WT:A. (I'm thinking, requirements for TU being about 100 edits. Requirements for TW: being sysop on WP, or otherwise voted for...e.g. the three accounts that have actively done TWs in the past.) --Connel MacKenzie T C 14:00, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Ain't to sure about that... why allowing rollbacks? Everyone can properly revert without that. Page moves is already allowed. Viewing deleted entries goes with restoring them. We don't want anyone but sysops to restore deleted entries. Setting user rights is for bureaucrats, yes. I think we only need additional import abilities for some. Most of these are primarily WP users, which is why they don't need anything else. — Vildricianus 17:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The only reason I ever wanted sysop, to begin with, was the rollback button. Javascript sortof fills that gap now, but not very well - significant technical knowledge is required; and helpful newcomers very rarely even know to load Wikipedia "popups" to do it. Plus, the Wikipedia version is buggy here and needs tweaking.

For OTRS, yes, we can give Amgine whatever access must go along with the ability to view deleted entries, with complete trust that he won't restore entries. We probably should just nominate him on WT:A instead though. (Primetime's slander of Amgine's RfA was what set me hot onto Primetime's trail, IIRC...the previous copyvios had all but been rolled back and shrugged off, prior to that.) --Connel MacKenzie T C 19:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't even thinking about popups. Users can just do the manual revert, you know? Equally easy. About Amgine, well sure we can nominate him for A. That's way easier than hacking Special:Undelete for a special user level. — Vildricianus 19:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I beg to differ. Manual rollbacks are on WT:FAQ because they are quite counter-intuitive. A [rollback] button, on the other hand, is.

Anyway, if we are going to have someone figure out user level stuff, it shouldn't only be for Import:. But that is a good item to push it with, I suppose. --Connel MacKenzie T C 19:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Differ you can, but you surely realize that making the rollback feature easily available and widespread encourages revert wars and such. You surely know which individuals should not have it. Being qualified to have rollback equals being qualified to be a sysop, for me. Special:Import OTOH is harmless, almost harmless enough to leave it to autoconfirmed users. — Vildricianus 19:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, I disagree on both points. The rollback button does little to encourage revert-wars, but it does insert the nice comment automatically...and rolls back all contribs by a bad user by default. Special:Import does on the other hand, seem wide open to abuse. --Connel MacKenzie T C 19:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Which of both actions gets logged? Rollback or import? There's no way to start dealing out rollback privileges to some but not all that meet a certain criterion. Whilst I understand this is your personal opinion, which I respect, I'm thinking about realizing this stuff. You talk about using Import to push rollback - I'm talking about rollback causing import to fail. Don't link them, at least not now. Let's try solving the transwiki stuff, not the rollback thing. — Vildricianus 20:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Hrumph. Well, OK, but I had to get one more indentation in here. --Connel MacKenzie T C 20:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

That's a damn good reason. — Vildricianus 20:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

So what does happen when it runs out of space? Will it become a verticle line one character wide? --Connel MacKenzie T C 17:29, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I've no idea. Perhaps the servers crash and the entire interweb dies. — Vildricianus 17:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's been a while since anyone has asked me to "reboot the internet" for them... --Connel MacKenzie T C 18:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I strongly advise you warn Brion first. — Vildricianus 18:06, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Um, why? It's only HTML that breaks. And actually, the limit(s) will be browser specific, won't they? --Connel MacKenzie T C 18:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps. But on my browser and screen, it was I who first went off-screen. — Vildricianus 18:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

My browsers are not showing any comments completely off-screen yet. Perhaps I should check my screen width. I suppose I could try it at 640x480. I wonder if I can find a video card that does 320x240. Probably not, these days.

Oh, did you mean that I should advise Brion before rebooting the internet? Or before indenting more? --Connel MacKenzie T C 18:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I suppose the only thing remaining to say about this is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. --Connel MacKenzie T C 18:37, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

What we can do now is follow Columbus's reasoning and believe we will end up in the navigation bar sooner or later. Even though we may encounter something completely different, we will still call it "sidebar". — Vildricianus 18:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh well. Move to BJAODN? --Connel MacKenzie T C 19:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)