Talk:Grise Fiord

Northernmost community?

I have an atlas that shows several communities more northerly than Grise Fiord. It shows a town called Eureka on the western shore of Ellesmere Island at 80° north, and even further north, a town called Alert at the extreme northeastern tip of the island (maybe 82° north). It also shows a town called Isachsen on Ellef Ringnes Island to the west of Ellesmere, almost directly north of the north magnetic pole, with a latitude of about 79° north. I don't know anything about these communities. Maybe they're not permanent settlements. Does anyone else know? —Bkell 20:40, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I just had a fascinating idea—I should find some information on these communities. Look for more information coming soon. —Bkell 20:45, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Google knows all - check out [1], they seem to be weather stations. Stan 06:14, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Alert claims to be the northernmost permanent settlement in the world. It is basically a military base, however. Perhaps Grise Fiord is the northernmost permanent "natural" settlement, in the sense that it was not established for military or meteorological reasons. Is this true? —Bkell 08:07, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Probably in the bowels of the Canadian government you can find an official definition of "community" that mentions permanent habitation, home or land ownership, voting, things like that, while "settlement" says no more than that there are people sleeping there on a regular basis. For WP's purposes it's sufficient to use the entities' self-descriptions and not inquire further, but if you want to risk madness by inquiring into the bureaucracy's definitions, it would help to find out and then add to community and settlement as the official Canadian definitions (other countries having different definitions for these). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stan Shebs (talk • contribs)

Grise Fiord (Inuktitut: ᐊᐅᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ, romanized: Aujuittuq, lit. 'place that never thaws') is an Inuit hamlet on the southern tip of Ellesmere Island, in the Qikiqtaaluk Region in the territory of Nunavut, Canada. It is one of three settlements on the island;

Thule is a "natural" settlement, and seems to be located north of Grise Fiord. (58.188.97.134 04:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

Eureka, Thule, and Alert are NOT communities. Eureka is a weather station, and none of the residence even qualify as territorial residence. The same is true for CFB Alert. In both of these STATIONS (not communities) the staff rotate in and out. They generally have mandatory rotations of 3 moths or less. A person can not go and live in these places, Grise Fiord is the furthest north place that you can LIVE in. It is the furthest north with a hamlet council and local government also. It has an elected or appointed mayor, which both of those stations lack. Having been to all three places, and currently residing in Grise Fiord I can attest to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.247.157.178 (talk) 08:00, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

The introduction contains a logical error
Grise Fiord is on the southern tip of Ellesmere Island.
It is one of three settlements on the island
It cannot be the northernmost settlement in Canada when it is the southernmost settlement on the island. 216.154.38.5 (talk)

It does not contain an error. It says "is the northernmost public community in Canada." Notice the word public. You could if you wanted move there. You can't just move to either Eureka or Alert. You have to either join Environment and Climate Change Canada or the Canadian Armed Forces to move to those places. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 17:18, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

query re removal

The following has been removed, with the comment " needs more of a reference since I have found other refs which dispute it" -- but no refs or other material was provided. So doesn't that mean that it should stay? It is referenced.

Having lost most traditional skills and purpose, its Inuit residents are now to a large degree dependent on government support. The whole story is told in Melanie McGrath's The Long Exile: A Tale of Inuit Betrayal and Survival in the High Arctic.

BrainyBabe (talk) 22:00, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

It looks fine to me and I restored it. I also asked Slp1 to put in the references that state the Inuit of Grise are not dependent on welfare. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 00:18, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I just saw Slp1's comments at Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board#Suggestion to start "Human flagpoles" and they are right. The dependence on welfare is pretty much all the way across the Canadian Arctic into the NWT. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 00:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I probably should have posted here, but was thinking that people were watching multiple pages. It seems to me, original research and reliable sources combined,the Washington Post New york times study on crime in Nunavut that perhaps surprisingly, Grise Fiord is actually doing better than many other Northern communities, its awful origins not withstanding. I haven't been there myself, but remember a conversation with a resident who told me about how there is so little crime there that the solo RCMP officer (unusual in itself) used her jail cell for storage!!! In addition this Canadian Geographic article [2] also disputes the 'not allowed home' suggestion from the book quoted. I support Franamax's view that we should take the broad, scholarly view here per [3] I would also like to point out that I am not trying to be difficult... I am as appalled as anybody by the human rights abuses, but I think we owe it to the past and current people of Grise Fiord (and anybody else reading this) to get this right.--Slp1 (talk) 00:56, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I was watching both pages but saw this page before I saw the Canadian Wikipedians' notice board. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 09:50, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

No problems at all! --Slp1 (talk) 12:28, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Great refs! Can you integrate them into the article? I think "Having lost most traditional skills and purpose, its Inuit residents are now to a large degree dependent on government support" is true across the Arctic, so is no more or less true here. Better community cohesion (not surprising in a very small place) does not mean economic self-reliance. Or am I missing something? BrainyBabe (talk) 08:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

To me, the articles given suggest that the people of Grise Fiord have not lost "traditional skills and purpose"; many may well be dependent on government support for the monetary needs (though note that if you hunt/fish, your need for paper money is actually greatly reduced.) But my main objection is that the dependency has been linked with the relocation, as if the latter caused the former. The situation in the North is very complex, and I don't think the relationship is anywhere near as simple as implied on this and other pages.--Slp1 (talk) 12:28, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Further, the 2006 census actually shows 80+% employment rates in Grise, much higher than the Nunavut average, [4]--Slp1 (talk) 13:22, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

The employment figures are very interesting, and indeed heartening to know. A success story to flag up? I don't think there is a problem in linking the dependency with the relocation (in this and other articles), although I can see that an absolute causal relationship cannot be blithely stated. MM's book does assert a strong link and causality, and I have referenced that (though I have not re-inserted what was removed above). If other sources have other theories, facts, ideas, opinions, statistics, etc., by all means add them. (I've just realised the inclusion of the Grise Fiord website, which looks more like tourism boosterism than an encyclopedic source. Oh dear. I hate to remove it, but at some point will have to, I fear.) BrainyBabe (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I guess I disagree about the linkage all the same: both Resolute and Grise have higher rates of employment than the rest of Nunavut based on the 2006 census.see this for Resolute There have, of course, been very high social and other costs to the relocations, and I agree totally these should be described, but let's be accurate, and neutral and not state the case in a way that is ultimately likely to be misleading to our readership. --Slp1 (talk) 17:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

References

Move discussion in progress

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New record low

Some of the low temperatures in Grise Fiord shown in Accuweather seem like mistakes, but I can't verify that. Some seem especially dubious, like the -91, but the -61 seems plausible. Can anyone confirm or deny the accuracy of these temperature readings? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.196.65 (talk) 19:28, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Looking back at last year, it hit -92 in April and -94 in May last year. Is there any validity to these or should they be ignored? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.43.83 (talk) 23:02, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Working at the weather station I have gone through the written records since inception of record keeping. I have found no paper record that shows a temperature lower than -52.1C I will look them over closely again when I have more time, but I don't see how it is possible in this location for temperature to dip much lower due to the regulating effect and proximity of deep, sheltered ocean, combined with mountains shielding from inland. The weather records (Environment Canada FORM 2322) are the ultimate legal weather documents recognized ICAO and WMO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.247.157.178 (talk) 08:08, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

The climate section contradicts the Grise Fiord homepage.

The numbers show a very mild, oceanic climate. However, in actuality, Grise Fiord DOES indeed get cold, the record low of -80.14 was legit as were the others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.42.29 (talk) 01:41, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

It is indeed a (relatively) mild oceanic (maritime) climate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.247.157.178 (talk) 08:10, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Climate Table

Please, don't remove it, it is very useful — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.48.31.127 (talk) 13:48, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Please give a source for the table. There are no Environment Canada listings for Grise in 1861-1990, 1971-2000 or 1981-2010. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 21:51, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Unsourceable information in article

The claim that there are 10 months of the year where the temperature doesn't rise above 0°C for 10 months of the year is quickly found to be untrue by looking at the weather observations for this location (in link). The apparent record low of an even -80.0°F is unlikely given the available records for all nearby locations with the same climate. To keep these claims up with a "needs a reference" tag is useless, because they're not ever going to be sourced. Doing so indefinitely (more than one and a half years already) violates the Wikipedia policy of WP:VERIFY. Also claiming that "hurricane strength winds at up to two times per year is "rare" I don't think counts as being rare. I contest having a whole climate section written without any available references as weather, climate and climate change is something that people regularly exaggerate. Wikipedia is not a place for this kind of thing. I am removing the obvious statements. http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?StationID=46568&timeframe=2&Year=2015&Month=5&cmdB1=Go&Day=1 Air.light (talk) 21:50, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Given that none of the section is sourced I have removed it all. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 14:25, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

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Settlers

I'm concerned about the use of the word "settlers" and "settlement" in this article. The people in this community descend from those moved against their will -- the High Arctic Exiles -- so it hardly seems accurate to say they "settled" there. Certainly, over time, they have done so, but the monument (for example) is to exiles, not settlers. As a visitor and friend to this community, I'd like to recommend this language be revisited. Clevelander96 (talk) 01:27, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

I've got rid of settlers and all but one use of settlement. In that case it is the settlement money paid. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 07:19, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

The name

Grise fiord means Pig fiord in the Scandinavian languages. Is the name given by the Norwegian expeditions ? Or how? 195.249.232.63 (talk) 13:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

See the article now for details. – AndyFielding (talk) 12:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

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