Talk:Al-Bassa

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Al-Bassa article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Military history: Middle East

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Middle Eastern military history task force

Palestine Mid‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Were the Muslims of al-Bassa Sunni or Shia?

I'm trying to sort out the history of Metawalis (Shi'ite Muslims) in Palestine, and there are contradictions regarding this place.

Napoleon described al-Bassa as a village of Metawalis in 1799 (which is probably too long ago to draw conclusions about recent times).
The 1922 census classified all the Muslims in al-Bassa as Metawali. The 1931 census does not appear to provide a classification.
Asher Kaufman, Between Palestine and Lebanon: Seven Shi'i Villages as a Case Study of Boundaries, Identities, and Conflict, Middle East Journal, Vol. 60, No. 4 (Autumn, 2006), pp. 685-706 describes al-Bassa in 1920–1923 as "split between Sunnis and Greek Catholics", in contradiction to the 1922 census.
Khalid Sindawi, Are there any Shi’ite Muslims in Israel?, Journal of Holy Land Studies, 7.2 (2008) 183–199, mentions the 1922 census enumeration in a footnote but does not otherwise mention al-Bassa at all.
A 2006 newspaper article of Danny Rubinstein says that Hassan Nasrallah sometimes includes al-Bassa when he calls for return of the Shi'ite villages to Lebanon.

So my question is: what other evidence is there? Zero^talk 02:50, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Now I have received mail from an acknowledged expert: the 1922 census had a mistake and this has been confirmed by people from the village. Zero^talk 06:55, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Error to be corrected on the date imported from the 1922 census

@Zero0000: Hello, there is a serious error in the section about the 1922 census. The text here, on Wp en, mentions only 150 Mehawedi (shii muslims), and then states that another source (Kaufman) speaks also about sunnites in the village. But it is because whoever wrote from the 1922 Census source forgot one column : the first column of the report (online [1]) indeed also indicates 366 "Mohammedans" (sunnites, thus, I suppose), who are not mentionned on the wp page ! I cannot correct myself because of the protection (I am mostly a contributor on Wp fr). I have "corrected" on the French version. But I see that 6 six years ago (above), there was an issue about the 1922 census and the contradictions, but it is not clear to me if the issue is about the "real" census, or what is reported from it in Wikipedia (which as I said is not correct). Also, of course, we cannot use hearsay as a source. If the census is really false, what is the correct source (those I looked at used the census) ? In any case, the total number here is not correct, etc. Thank you ! --Cgolds (talk) 09:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This has just been dealt with. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:00, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Census of 1922

In the article says "The British census of September 1922 listed a population of The British census of September 1922 listed a population of 867 Christians, 150 Metawalis and 1 Jew", but the census says (page 39, table XI) 867 Christians, 366 "Mohammedans" (Sunni, I think), 150 Metawalis and 1 Jew (the article was written ignoring the 366 Sunni in the census) MiguelMadeira (talk) 17:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ✅ - IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:58, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The text now reads "The British census of September 1922 listed a population of 867 Christians, 366 "Mohammedans", 150 Metawilehs, and 1 Jew." IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:28, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@MiguelMadeira:@IOHANNVSVERVS: Of course it is true that the census listed 366 Mohammedans. Regarding Metawilehs, there is an issue. This place is not included in Asher Kaufman's papers about Metawilehs in Palestine. About a decade ago I wrote to him about it and he replied that he had concluded that the census was erroneous and he had confirmed his suspicion by talking to people from the village. That is, he believes there were no Metawilehs there. The numbers in the census are also suspiciously round: 75+75=150. The NOR rule of course prevents me from adding this private communication to the article, but I'm wondering if at least the indirect evidence of not being in Kaufman's list should be included. Zero^talk 00:31, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. Our article does say that: Asher Kaufman described the village as being "split between Sunnis and Greek Catholics." IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:35, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we could write «Asher Kaufman did not include it in his paper about Metawilehs in Palestine[some source] and described the village as being "split between Sunnis and Greek Catholics"[29]»? MiguelMadeira (talk) 12:38, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]